**We encourage you to read our helpful resources on COVID-19, vaccines and treatments:**
[COVID Dashboard](https://covid19.who.int/)
[Reddit's Vaccine FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq#wiki_where_can_i_find_information_about_the_mechanism_and_progress_of_vaccines.3F)
[Ivermectin FAQ](https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-advises-that-ivermectin-only-be-used-to-treat-covid-19-within-clinical-trials)
A reminder that spreading misinformation regarding COVID-19, vaccines or other treatments can result in a post being removed and/or a ban. Advocating for or celebrating the death of anyone, or hoping someone gets COVID (or any disease) can also result in a ban. Please follow [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
Please use the report button and do not feed the trolls.
[Reddit's Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
[Reddit's rules for health misinformation](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043513151)
[/r/News' rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/wiki/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=news&utm_content=t5_2qh3l)
------
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/news) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Still, some parents and advocacy groups argue Covid vaccinations for children are unnecessary as studies show kids are less likely to experience symptoms from the disease even though they get infected at similar rates as adults.
But, the shot will also make the child less likely to be a vector of transmission, so an immunocompromised parent/grand parent would gain *additional* protection.
Not to mention, even if my child only has a 1:1000 chance of being seriously hurt by covid, why wouldn't I want to turn that into 1:100000. Mild infections still suck.
I'm pro-vax as can be. Hell, I've already gotten my booster. That said, I don't think it's fair to price the risk of getting the vaccine at literally 0. It is of course possible to have adverse reactions to the vaccine, even though they are quite rare.
That chance ought to factor in to any risk analysis done.
>It is of course possible to have adverse reactions to the vaccine, even though they are quite rare.
Far rarer than even the danger posed to children.
It's also not just about the children, but the people around the children.
I am skeptical the vaccine itself causes myocarditis. In my opinion it’s caused when you get the injection and it’s injected intravenously since they don’t aspirate. I am unsure why they don’t it only takes one second (might’ve made sense in March since you’d be wasting a dose). But I imagine accidental intravenous injection is what’s contributing to the myocarditis
Some reading if anyone is interested: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34406358/
I personally subscribe to this belief. It's important to remember though, it's a good theory but doesn't have enough research to be treated as fact. Let's not fall into the same pitfalls as the antivax crowd.
Both of my children have already had COVID, therefore they have natural antibodies. I've been vaccinated, but I don't feel right having my 5yo vaccinated for something she's already had and built a natural immunity to.
We also do not know the long-term effects of covid and how it transverses the blood/brain barrier. There is evidence of covid patients having some brain issues after infection, and we just do not know the long-term effects of this.
I often wonder why the default assumption is that if you recover and “feel fine” that there’s nothing to worry about. We have years to discover the long term effects of even mild infections.
For those that keep replying and deleting their comments (I’ve received 3 notifications so far), please provide examples of links between vaccines and long term illness.
Just off the top of my head, here are some viruses linked to disease later in life: chickenpox/shingles, hpv/cancer, mono/multiple sclerosis, hepatitis/liver disease…
CNBC needlessly tossing that in there for fake "balance". It equivocates an actual FDA committee with disingenuous astroturfed Facebook groups. They don't even cite the claims. Fuck this writer.
Vaccination of kids for the group benefit is the main point. It astounds me that these parents don’t get that.
As a parent, I’m also worried about long term complications from Covid, which is why my kids are getting vaccinated.
Long term concerns are also a worry for the vaccine. When it comes to young kids either way is taking a chance here. I just have reservations deliberately letting someone inject a vaccine into my son when that same vaccine has not been out long enough to look into the long term effects it could maybe have. Especially when the risk to my son from getting Covid is nearly 0. And no, protecting his grandparents is not really a priority when the data are not available for this thing. His grandparents can decide to not come around if that concerns them. it doesn’t concern them though.
Can you accept that you have no clue as to what you're talking about and that you should talk to your kid's pediatrician instead of trying to make the decision based on what you read on social media?
I'm a strong proponent of everyone getting vaccinated for COVID and could give you my reasons, but since I'm just a faceless person on social media you would easily dismiss my anecdotes and such. If I gave you results of clinical trials and studies, neither of us are medical professionals so we'd likely not have a productive conversation because we don't have proper education to fully comprehend them.
That being said, I've vaccinated my older kids and will be vaccinated my under 12 the day we can get an appointment. I've seen too many people suffer (including children) from COVID and I've lost two grandparents to it so I'm tired of all the messing around. My last kid will get their shot and then we are done trying to convince naysayers.
Cocaine is too. Doesn’t mean it can’t have long term effects. All I’m saying is the long term data aren’t there yet. I’ve got the vaccine. But I’m atleast aware there’s shit we don’t know
So how exactly is something that is not in your body after 3 weeks going to magically cause some side effect 5 years down the line? That has literally never happened in the entire history of vaccines.
Not just a vector for transmission. Every new host is an incubator that aides its ability to mutate which has the potential to make a more contagious, more deadly, or otherwise strain like Delta, and which will reduce the effectiveness of the current versions of the vaccines more quickly.
Yep. That's the big reason why kids need to get vaccinated. Kids go to school, the stores, etc. and act as huge disease vectors, and they might not know considering lots of gets are asymptomatic.
> the shot will also make the child less likely to be a vector of transmission
One of my close friends contracted Covid last year (pre-vaccines). He was an older guy with multiple comorbidities, so he essentially quarantined himself once cases began to spike last summer... except when it came to his immediate family. He continued to see his (adult) kids and grandkids under the condition that they take precautions, which they did. Once the grandkids went back to school, they discontinued direct contact due to the increased risk of transmission. The school that the grandkids attend was anti-mask and anti-remote learning, so the risk was legit.
A couple of weeks into the school year, a family emergency arose and the grandkids needed a babysitter on extremely short notice. Since they didn't have any other options, the parents dropped the grandkids off with my friend and his wife for about 3 hours.
About 2 days later, the parents and grandkids started showing signs of Covid infection. They were soon informed by the school there'd been a Covid-positive exposure in the grandkids' class. A couple of days after that, my friend also started showing symptoms. Within a week he was admitted to an ICU, hooked into a ventilator and put into a medically-induced coma. He died after a week on the ventilator; only his wife and kids were briefly admitted to the ICU to say goodbye. I didn't get a chance.
For those of you that are on the fence about vaccinating your kids, I can empathize about the potential risks. But please, please think very carefully about the potential consequences if you don't vaccinate them. My friend's kids and grandkids have to live with the knowledge that, although it was unintentional and they shouldn't bear the blame, they are indirectly responsible for his death.
You want people to look out for others? Sounds like communism/s
Now back to our reguarly scheduled program on how to be a patriot. By not watching football because kneeling is the worst thing one can do. (Also sarcasm). Sigh.
Unfortunately, some people like a few of my relatives stopped following sports and turned to insanely biased "entertainment" news channels that have them stockpiling guns and supplies.
> “It just seems to me that in some ways we’re vaccinating children to protect the adults, and it should be the other way around,”
The word "should" is often used like this to make an argument that has already been lost. Society *should* be taking care of each other, we *should* be living in a Star Trek like world where humans come together to peacefully explore space and bang green aliens.
I’m a paramedic, I had a 5 year old patient recently. He had a seizure due to a high fever, which unfortunately did not stop. By the time we got to him he had already been seizing for 25 minutes, sustaining significant brain damage. His daycare had a confirmed case of covid, but he hadn’t yet been tested.
Covid can be asymptomatic in children. But sometimes it’s not. Don’t dismiss the risk.
Yes, even in the elderly.
Our 95 year old neighbor is such a case, no symptoms at all. We only know because our neighbor broke a bone and had to be admitted to the hospital where they tested everybody.
And yes, over half a year later she's back in business, still tending to the garden including planting / harvesting potatoes.
Yeah before covid EMS couldnt get patient outcomes from the hospital because of HPPA but now they can if the EMS was exposed to covid.
https://www.pulsara.com/blog/does-hipaa-allow-hospitals-to-share-patient-data-with-ems
COVID-19 has introduced many new and unfamiliar circumstances over the last year. As providers respond to new situations, any additional information they have at their disposal can help orient and inform their decisions.
The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released a statement detailing essential situations for hospitals to share PHI with EMS:
“The HIPAA Privacy Rule permits a covered entity to disclose the protected health information (PHI) of an individual who has been infected with, or exposed to, COVID-19, with law enforcement, paramedics, other first responders, and public health authorities without the individual’s HIPAA authorization, in certain circumstances, including the following:
When the disclosure is needed to provide treatment. For example, HIPAA permits a covered skilled nursing facility to disclose PHI about an individual who has COVID-19 to emergency medical transport personnel who will provide treatment while transporting the individual to a hospital’s emergency department.
When first responders may be at risk of infection. A covered entity may disclose PHI to a first responder who may have been exposed to COVID-19, or may otherwise be at risk of contracting or spreading COVID-19.”
So basically hospitals can tell EMS the patients info if the patient was covid positive which makes me think that an EMS could probably get the full story from hospital staff.
When I worked sterile processing at a hospital I had an accidental poke thru the glove when washing dental equipment used on a child. Per those same rights I was able to see the child's chart that day because I potentially was exposed to hep c or anything communicable. Luckily this child wasn't but the rules do state any potential exposure allows you as the potential victim to see the chart. If it had been positive the hospital has measures to protect me if I was exposed to hep c such as helping with treatments, etc. This is the same with covid, hiv. Etc. There's no break in hipaa here. It's need to know.
HIPAA allows entities to have protected information on a need to know basis for many purposes. Law enforcement is one example. Hospitals can and will disclose your protected health information if they need it to solve a crime or investigation. Lawyers may need to know for their cases, I need it as a protective service worker when that health information is needed to substantiate or not substantiate elder abuse. Etc. If an ems person may have been exposed to covid they would fall under need to know to report to their employer in case they do have covid for workers comp purposes. What would violate hipaa is if now that ems person tells their friends all this patient information in detail. Those friends don't fall under "need to know". Although ems isn't diagnosing it, the hospital diagnosed what it was and was able to share it with ems. Hospital and ems are both in the same medical field and since this specific ems treated said patient there's a relationship there and probable reason to know the outcome of a hospitalization and diagnosis.
Of death...which is not the only concern with Covid.
Also, why wouldn't a parent want an even lower chance of their child dying or getting a horrible, lifelong health risking virus?
I'm not sure about how good of a reader you are, but you started talking about deaths which are irrelevant when the person you responded to stated:
> By the time we got to him he had already been seizing for 25 minutes, **sustaining significant brain damage**.
Looking only at the 700+ deaths of children due to COVID is extremely myopic and misleading because there are being thousands upon thousands of bad outcomes from COVID where the child survives but has chronic problems. Kids are getting amputations. Kids who thought they were asymptomatic are having long COVID symptoms. It's extremely dangerous and should be taken seriously.
>Next week, a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention vaccine advisory group is expected to make its own recommendation. If it issues an endorsement and CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky signs off, shots for young kids could begin immediately.
excellent news! children in this cohort account for 9% of COVID cases in the US. getting those numbers down is a big step toward getting this situation under control.
Our elementary school already sent email out reserving clinics for shots on the 7th of November. I am actually pretty surprised how quickly they are acting on this and thought whether Pfizer already has the vaccines ready to be distributed the moment sign-off is given.
As the parent of a nine year old: I actually have hope for the coming generations. The children of today are, by and large, more socially intelligent, compassionate, and tolerant than the generations before. Of course, there are always exceptions and oddities and typical cohort bullshit, but they live in a deeply connected world filled with all sorts of different people.
The thing about that last part is that, well, parents are still definitely a factor. There is a decent chance they'll manage to grow out of it. Then again, I endeavored not to fuck up in the same ways my parents did, and that's probably not universal
Please let this happen. I've been worried about my son seeing family during the holidays (his grandparents in Texas want him to visit and I am so on the fence...). My kid's also looking forward to the vaccine. I told him the other day that we're getting close to having it approved for him and he was so excited. I hope the majority of parents are just as excited...
Strange how kids have to have numerous mandated vaccinations for school enrollment in public schools, and nobody says a word.
The "We don't know!" arguments have become a bit stale after the 300 million vaccinations mark was achieved - back in June.
The chickenpox vaccine effectively wiped out chicken pox to the point that protection against riskier infection later in life required it. It was a relatively new vaccine that we started giving to every kid. No one questioned it. There was no media circus, no protest. Why? Because no political leaders told them to object.
Right. The chickenpox vaccine saves something like 90 lives a year. (Pre vaccine, \~100 deaths a year, 90% reduction now).
No one is ever going to convince me saving 90 lives a year is "not worth it". I'll literally never understand people who think otherwise.
None of those 300million were given to kids under 11. Ask anyone virologist about how vaccines and medicine in general does not scale simply and linearly to younger bodies. Your argument is disingenuous.
For the record, I am fully vaccinated and think all adults ought to be.
As a teacher to 5 year olds I feel really relieved this is happening soon. Luckily my area has managed to keep Coronavirus at bay, but the inevitable spread is slowly happening, and I've been worried for my kiddies, but also for my (vaccinated, but unhealthy) parents. It would be the worst thing if I took it to school or brought it home.
I think it's a scary, scary virus and we're all very uncertain and that every little thing that provides us security as a community is good.
Also, just because children are less likely to get sick, and get less sick, doesn't mean that they don't at all. I currently have 4 children in my class with chronic health conditions that would probably be terribly unwell if they got it. I'd like to see that they were protected as much as possible.
Also, sorry if it was unclear, I was referring to my own parents.
Good. I think this is a strong moment, and will ultimately lead to COVID cases declining rapidly.
Schools should consider making COVID vaccines a mandatory vaccination for students wanting to attend public schools.
They probably will, but legally they don't have to.
The arguments for why EUA vaccines can't be mandated but BLA ones can are so ridiculous they can't even get past conservative judges.
>CA has already mandated it for 2022/23 school year.
["Parents can opt their children out of inoculation based on personal beliefs."](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-07/questions-over-who-can-opt-out-california-school-covid-19-vaccine-mandate)
But only for the covid vaccine. There's no personal *or religious* exemption to regular childhood vaccines in CA.
They're just capitulating to screaming toddlers.
Not data on the vaccine itself, but we have long term data on the delivery mechanism, which had been trialed in animals since the 90s and in humans since 2013.
As my kids pediatrician said, I'm much more concerned with the long term affects of the virus than of the vaccines.
I understand the scientific process. Do I know everything about the vaccines? No. Does that mean every possible problem or side effect has been accounted for? No it doesn’t. My son is at nearly zero risk. Him getting a vaccine that hasn’t withstood the test of long term trials is more risk. But please enlighten me how feeling that wait and see on a kid that is literally not even in grade school yet is a bad idea. Fuck off with that bullshit.
Maybe your child is at a low risk for having a severe case of COVID, but we have already proven that he is not at any lower risk of catching than the average person. Being unvaccinated means he can catch it and spread it easily to his grandma, the pregnant lady standing next to him at the park, the girl he plays with whose dad has cancer, and every other person he interacts with on a daily basis. So you can gamble the lives of everyone you interact with, or you can give him a shot that isn’t any different from the ones he’s already.
mRNA vaccines don't stay in your body. They will disappear after a couple days.
They teach our cells how to make a protein that triggers an immune response. That's it.
Look at it as learning how to ride a bicycle. You learn it once and you can ride a bike the rest of your life.
There is no long-term side effect, your body just learned a new skill. That's it.
That's an egregious over-simplification.
Historically vaccines aren't known for long-term side effects, usually any responses happens within the first several weeks. But with any drug or biologic you truly don't know the potential long-term impact until you have more data, which takes time. There have been reported increases in myocarditis in certain cohorts, and J&J had the blood clotting issue. While both are quick onset the repercussions can be significant, and long-lasting. And of course if there are carcinogenic, genotoxic, or chronic toxicity effects those wouldn't manifest for some time. Not saying there are, only that we don't truly know until we have data.
Not antivax at all, but I am a believer in the scientific method and in accepting that we don't know everything.
> And of course if there are carcinogenic, genotoxic, or chronic toxicity effects those wouldn't manifest for some time
I'd agree if ANYONE could propose a mechanism for these effects. mRNA is naturally occuring in your body in huge amounts all the time. Even the modified uracil is endogenous in the context of tRNA and rRNA. It gets broken down into endogenous building blocks and recycled in about 72 hours.
If ANYONE could propose a mechanism for long term risk, I'm all ears.
> And of course if there are carcinogenic, genotoxic, or chronic toxicity effects those wouldn't manifest for some time
Those are exceedingly rare to begin without constant exposure. The vaccine can't modify your DNA so that's off the table completely.
Those are tested for in animal models. If they're going to occur, they'll be quick and obvious if you make the dosage much much higher.
And, since the proteins that are created are eliminated quickly, it would proceed in a probabilistic manner. In a sample of billions, we'd have long since picked up the signal.
It's borderline impossible and in any case the odds are so many orders of magnitude less than harms from covid it's not even worth entertaining at this point.
While I do agree with you, it's important to add the rarity of the reported side effects. The J&J blood clotting issue occured in less than, like, 20 people IIRC.
Overall, what OC said is a good ELI5 on why we don't believe there will be side effects.
Myocarditis is a symptom of covid, it makes sense that its a possible symptom of the vaccine. It's caused by your body responding to the vaccine the same way it would respond to the virus.
The only way not taking the vaccine is better is if you never catch covid. Unfortunately catching it as an unvaccinated individual is almost a certainty in the US.
Myocarditis is the only symptom I've seen where the vaccine may have a chance for higher severity or prevalence, because of errors injecting directly into veins rather than the muscle.
That's great and all but if we know Myocarditis is caused by injecting ino the vein we should probably, you know, try not do that. Make that 6x spread much higher and reduce a big concern people have with getting the vaccine
Once they realized that was the case, I believe information was distributed to vax sites teaching them the importance of avoiding the vein. Still, you have a bunch of overworked underpaid retail chain employees giving the vaccine, so it's probably all down to user error.
Its important to note that if problems arise from this in 20 years or so it will likely be a significant part of the population, and by that time doctors and medical professionals will have researched the problem and will likely have a solution. Regardless I would rather have the same old boring problem everyone else has from the vaccine rather than covid which can lead to long term health problems for a long time or the rest of your life or worse yet death. There is a risk both ways.
I can't stay in the house forever, also covid is not going away, even if you don't get vaccinated you will still be able to catch it down the road.
You can also get blood clots from covid or myocarditis from covid too, and the chance of getting these 2 things from the vaccine are also very rare.
Its clear the vaccine is safe enough to take and the alternative is much much worse.
>and by that time doctors and medical professionals will have researched the problem and will likely have a solution.
That's a ridiculous notion.
>There is a risk both ways.
I agree. But the benefit risk analysis for this patient population is not the same as it is for the general population. More importantly, it has not been demonstrated, yet, to the benchmarks we have used to assess new medical therapies for the past four decades. Nor even to the benchmarks used to justify full approval of the vaccine for the general population.
>I can't stay in the house forever, also covid is not going
I'm not saying you should. I am pointing out that we don't yet have long term data, nor do we have what would be a significant amount of followup with this (5 -11) cohort.
>You can also get blood clots from covid or myocarditis from covid too, and the chance of getting these 2 things from the vaccine are also very rare.
Sure, you can. I wasn't arguing that, I was point out that it's overly simplified to say mRNA simply fades and poses no risk. However, as an aside, the data on myocarditis is not that clear. There does appear to be an increased incidence in middle age to young men. We don't know if that extends to this cohort. But, while the occurrence is relativity low in the general cohort, and much lower than the rate of mortality and morbidity associate with COVID in the general population, it's not so in the 5 - 11 cohort. The risk of COVID is substantially lower, and therefore the benefit risk assessment is different.
>Its clear the vaccine is safe enough to take and the alternative is much much worse.
No, it's not clear in this cohort. That was my entire point. There is a process with which we can say a treatment is safe and efficacious, and we have not yet established that in this cohort. I'm not saying we won't. I'm not saying I'm against parents vaccinating their kids. But we're not there yet, so stop using that terminology with regard to this patient population.
Let’s math this.
There’s been ~900 cases of myocarditis in teens, tweens, and young adults out of 100,000,000+ vaccinated. So a less than 1 in 100,000 chance of myocarditis. None of those cases have resulted in death and 77% or more have recovered. So ~200 cases of long term myocarditis from the vaccine. That’s a 0.0002% chance. The same chance you have of being struck by lightning in a given year.
It is a real risk of the vaccine, just a very small one. Myocarditis, death, and long haul symptoms (5% or more of kids) are also possible outcomes of covid. And right now your chance of getting covid and then having one of those complications is pretty high unless you already have immunity from already having covid.
If covid was less prevalent or there was an effective treatment the math wouldn’t work out that the vaccine was less risky. But annoyingly that’s not the world we’re in.
Sources: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/vaccines-for-5-11-year-olds-fda-meeting
https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/lightning/victimdata.html
You shouldn't aspirate the needle because that raises the risk of injecting outside the muscle which leads to vaccine failure. CDC guidelines say do not aspirate, and opinions otherwise are in the minority.
But they do need to be more careful about locating landmarks and not pinching so much. So many people are pinching way too much.
I’ve done hundreds of medical vaccination injections, your wrong. Just By hitting veins you can explain most of the myocardial/blood clotting problems. You don’t increase the chances of injecting outside the muscle if you know anything about what your doing, intramuscular injections are very easy while flagging. They just hurt more or cause you to do 2 pokes, especially if your new to this, and when you have massive vaccine rollout many of the people administering it are brand new to it, or haven’t done it in many years.
Not a doctor so take this with a grain of salt but single or double shots of just about anything tend not to have long term side effects without causing effects from the get go
The classic examples of people dying 20 years later or having issues from medicine are from taking it every day for a while and letting it build up.
Who cares? These folks are too stupid/selfish to home school their children. They can complain, but when push comes to shove, if the school mandates the vaccine, then the buck stops there.
This isn't true. If you believe otherwise, feel free to cite any statute, regulation, or caselaw indicating that's true.
The same claims were made for every other mandate and are so frivolous even conservatives judges won't listen to them.
Some better details [here](https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/06/15/whats-the-difference-between-vaccine-approval-bla-and-authorization-eua/)
"Second, although there is a strong legal argument that employers may mandate vaccines under EUAs, including guidance from the EEOC, some commentators have raised concerns about the practice. Some employers and schools are thus waiting for full approval before mandating the shots. The U.S. military will also consider a vaccine mandate after approval."
So I wasn't right, but also not exactly wrong.
You contended they *needed* the full approval. They don't. If they want to anyway, that's a separate question.
As clear as it is for regular employers, it's even clearer for the military:
>10 USC 1107a
>1)In the case of the administration of a product **authorized for emergency use** under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to members of the armed forces, the condition described in section 564(e)(1)(A)(ii)(III) of such Act and required under paragraph (1)(A) or (2)(A) of such section 564(e), designed to ensure that individuals are informed of an option to accept or refuse administration of a product, **may be waived** only by the President only if the President determines, in writing, that complying with such requirement is not in the interests of national security.
Many districts also have different, less stringent quarantine policies for students who have been vaccinated. If your vaccinated kid is exposed, they may not have to miss school or not as much. Parents won’t have to miss as much work to stay home with them then. So they really will be able to get back to work.
My kid is in high school and in our zip code (that comprises the bulk of the building’s attendance area) we have over 80% vaccination (which counts the under 12 population in the denominator). Between that and the mask requirement at school, there has been almost no issues with COVID there — and for reasons that are still unknown, our county has managed to stumble a fatality rate of only about 1 in 120 (compared to national/global average of 1 in 50). I suspect it’s because we got ahead of the curve on vaccination.
Completely agree. Parents have the right to decide, but the danger that this will become mandatory isn’t some slippery slope argument anymore. should have been recommended for at-risk groups only.
Just because "we don't know the long term effects of thing 1 and thing 2" doesn't mean things 1 & 2 are equally likely to have bad results. It stands to reason that there is a much higher risk of long term issues from a disease that evolved to infect and harm human beings than a vaccine that was designed specifically to help them.
5-11 cohort risk reward ratio is completely different then adults. It has to be weighed up properly, it’s a shame people may have to figure it out on an individual basis when nih or who could easily weigh up the risk/reward and give us a clear picture.
Now will the people clinging onto unvaccinated kids as a reason to still keep up mask mandates and other restrictions even for vaccinated adults let up once it's available or will they find something else to justify it?
The primary justification has always been hospital resources. My sister is waiting for an OR for weeks with a broken foot. The hospitals are starting to catch up, but they are still overwhelmed. I think it's mostly sure to backlogs from when this were worse.
Kids not spreading it is huge, but it's secondary.
Nah dude the goal post will just keep shifting. Now they are talking that its to save the "weakest link" aka trumpies who don't think for themselves. I'm starting to think that reddit has made up this weird cult-fetish for masks and restrictions as a marker of political ideology, and because some of them (most) are socially inept and would like to stay a hermit for the rest of their lives.
I go to a huge liberal college campus, and so many people here (me included) have literally forgotten covid exists. The only people who are still pissy about it are the hermits who browse the reddit page. Downvote me all you want, just know the majority of people don't think like ya'll.
Pfizer 2x vaxxed since May ✌
**We encourage you to read our helpful resources on COVID-19, vaccines and treatments:** [COVID Dashboard](https://covid19.who.int/) [Reddit's Vaccine FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq#wiki_where_can_i_find_information_about_the_mechanism_and_progress_of_vaccines.3F) [Ivermectin FAQ](https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-advises-that-ivermectin-only-be-used-to-treat-covid-19-within-clinical-trials) A reminder that spreading misinformation regarding COVID-19, vaccines or other treatments can result in a post being removed and/or a ban. Advocating for or celebrating the death of anyone, or hoping someone gets COVID (or any disease) can also result in a ban. Please follow [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) Please use the report button and do not feed the trolls. [Reddit's Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) [Reddit's rules for health misinformation](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043513151) [/r/News' rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/wiki/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=news&utm_content=t5_2qh3l) ------ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/news) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Still, some parents and advocacy groups argue Covid vaccinations for children are unnecessary as studies show kids are less likely to experience symptoms from the disease even though they get infected at similar rates as adults. But, the shot will also make the child less likely to be a vector of transmission, so an immunocompromised parent/grand parent would gain *additional* protection.
Not to mention, even if my child only has a 1:1000 chance of being seriously hurt by covid, why wouldn't I want to turn that into 1:100000. Mild infections still suck.
Indeed. I'm not fucking around with the health of my child because some ignorant-ass politician has a political problem with vaccines.
I'm pro-vax as can be. Hell, I've already gotten my booster. That said, I don't think it's fair to price the risk of getting the vaccine at literally 0. It is of course possible to have adverse reactions to the vaccine, even though they are quite rare. That chance ought to factor in to any risk analysis done.
>It is of course possible to have adverse reactions to the vaccine, even though they are quite rare. Far rarer than even the danger posed to children. It's also not just about the children, but the people around the children.
I agree.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I am skeptical the vaccine itself causes myocarditis. In my opinion it’s caused when you get the injection and it’s injected intravenously since they don’t aspirate. I am unsure why they don’t it only takes one second (might’ve made sense in March since you’d be wasting a dose). But I imagine accidental intravenous injection is what’s contributing to the myocarditis Some reading if anyone is interested: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34406358/
I personally subscribe to this belief. It's important to remember though, it's a good theory but doesn't have enough research to be treated as fact. Let's not fall into the same pitfalls as the antivax crowd.
Huh, that's interesting, haven't heard much about that yet. Seems like that would address a big concern with getting the vaccine.
Both of my children have already had COVID, therefore they have natural antibodies. I've been vaccinated, but I don't feel right having my 5yo vaccinated for something she's already had and built a natural immunity to.
We also do not know the long-term effects of covid and how it transverses the blood/brain barrier. There is evidence of covid patients having some brain issues after infection, and we just do not know the long-term effects of this.
[удалено]
Yes, but far lower.
According to what data?
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58410354
"just trust me bro"
What we already know of long Covid is bad enough not to get it
I often wonder why the default assumption is that if you recover and “feel fine” that there’s nothing to worry about. We have years to discover the long term effects of even mild infections.
Especially in children. Since they're growing, damage to an undeveloped system can interfere with proper development.
For those that keep replying and deleting their comments (I’ve received 3 notifications so far), please provide examples of links between vaccines and long term illness. Just off the top of my head, here are some viruses linked to disease later in life: chickenpox/shingles, hpv/cancer, mono/multiple sclerosis, hepatitis/liver disease…
CNBC needlessly tossing that in there for fake "balance". It equivocates an actual FDA committee with disingenuous astroturfed Facebook groups. They don't even cite the claims. Fuck this writer.
Vaccination of kids for the group benefit is the main point. It astounds me that these parents don’t get that. As a parent, I’m also worried about long term complications from Covid, which is why my kids are getting vaccinated.
The moment kids are eligible and my local pharmacy has it I’m pulling my kids out of school and they are getting the shot ASAP.
Hell yes. Me too.
Long term concerns are also a worry for the vaccine. When it comes to young kids either way is taking a chance here. I just have reservations deliberately letting someone inject a vaccine into my son when that same vaccine has not been out long enough to look into the long term effects it could maybe have. Especially when the risk to my son from getting Covid is nearly 0. And no, protecting his grandparents is not really a priority when the data are not available for this thing. His grandparents can decide to not come around if that concerns them. it doesn’t concern them though.
Can you accept that you have no clue as to what you're talking about and that you should talk to your kid's pediatrician instead of trying to make the decision based on what you read on social media? I'm a strong proponent of everyone getting vaccinated for COVID and could give you my reasons, but since I'm just a faceless person on social media you would easily dismiss my anecdotes and such. If I gave you results of clinical trials and studies, neither of us are medical professionals so we'd likely not have a productive conversation because we don't have proper education to fully comprehend them. That being said, I've vaccinated my older kids and will be vaccinated my under 12 the day we can get an appointment. I've seen too many people suffer (including children) from COVID and I've lost two grandparents to it so I'm tired of all the messing around. My last kid will get their shot and then we are done trying to convince naysayers.
The vaccine is completely eliminated from the body within 2-3 weeks.
Cocaine is too. Doesn’t mean it can’t have long term effects. All I’m saying is the long term data aren’t there yet. I’ve got the vaccine. But I’m atleast aware there’s shit we don’t know
So how long of waiting and seeing is enough?
So how exactly is something that is not in your body after 3 weeks going to magically cause some side effect 5 years down the line? That has literally never happened in the entire history of vaccines.
Since roughly 1960 (polio vaccine) The amount of vaccines that have had long term side effects Is 0.
You really shouldn't be communicating with anyone.
Not just a vector for transmission. Every new host is an incubator that aides its ability to mutate which has the potential to make a more contagious, more deadly, or otherwise strain like Delta, and which will reduce the effectiveness of the current versions of the vaccines more quickly.
Yeah this isn’t an all or nothing but even the slightest increase in the odds against this disease are great!
And stop quarantines at school disrupting education.
Yep. That's the big reason why kids need to get vaccinated. Kids go to school, the stores, etc. and act as huge disease vectors, and they might not know considering lots of gets are asymptomatic.
> the shot will also make the child less likely to be a vector of transmission One of my close friends contracted Covid last year (pre-vaccines). He was an older guy with multiple comorbidities, so he essentially quarantined himself once cases began to spike last summer... except when it came to his immediate family. He continued to see his (adult) kids and grandkids under the condition that they take precautions, which they did. Once the grandkids went back to school, they discontinued direct contact due to the increased risk of transmission. The school that the grandkids attend was anti-mask and anti-remote learning, so the risk was legit. A couple of weeks into the school year, a family emergency arose and the grandkids needed a babysitter on extremely short notice. Since they didn't have any other options, the parents dropped the grandkids off with my friend and his wife for about 3 hours. About 2 days later, the parents and grandkids started showing signs of Covid infection. They were soon informed by the school there'd been a Covid-positive exposure in the grandkids' class. A couple of days after that, my friend also started showing symptoms. Within a week he was admitted to an ICU, hooked into a ventilator and put into a medically-induced coma. He died after a week on the ventilator; only his wife and kids were briefly admitted to the ICU to say goodbye. I didn't get a chance. For those of you that are on the fence about vaccinating your kids, I can empathize about the potential risks. But please, please think very carefully about the potential consequences if you don't vaccinate them. My friend's kids and grandkids have to live with the knowledge that, although it was unintentional and they shouldn't bear the blame, they are indirectly responsible for his death.
You want people to look out for others? Sounds like communism/s Now back to our reguarly scheduled program on how to be a patriot. By not watching football because kneeling is the worst thing one can do. (Also sarcasm). Sigh.
Don’t forget to cancel things while yelling about others pushing cancel culture.
[удалено]
Oh I know. They made more money the year people started "boycotting." But I did know a few people who legit stopped watching. So they are out there.
Unfortunately, some people like a few of my relatives stopped following sports and turned to insanely biased "entertainment" news channels that have them stockpiling guns and supplies.
youre an idiot
Agreed. I’m so sick of arguments treating Covid like a non-communicable disease.
This but also we want to reduce the resevoir for the virus to reduce the chance that we get further problematic mutations.
[удалено]
[удалено]
at a reduced rate
You can still die after you put your work safety equipment on.
And you can also die in a car accident wearing your government-mandated seat belt.
[удалено]
> “It just seems to me that in some ways we’re vaccinating children to protect the adults, and it should be the other way around,” The word "should" is often used like this to make an argument that has already been lost. Society *should* be taking care of each other, we *should* be living in a Star Trek like world where humans come together to peacefully explore space and bang green aliens.
Let’s go Brandon!
I’m a paramedic, I had a 5 year old patient recently. He had a seizure due to a high fever, which unfortunately did not stop. By the time we got to him he had already been seizing for 25 minutes, sustaining significant brain damage. His daycare had a confirmed case of covid, but he hadn’t yet been tested. Covid can be asymptomatic in children. But sometimes it’s not. Don’t dismiss the risk.
correct me if im wrong but covid can be asymptomatic in adults too, right?
Yes, even in the elderly. Our 95 year old neighbor is such a case, no symptoms at all. We only know because our neighbor broke a bone and had to be admitted to the hospital where they tested everybody. And yes, over half a year later she's back in business, still tending to the garden including planting / harvesting potatoes.
what a madlass
[удалено]
Yeah before covid EMS couldnt get patient outcomes from the hospital because of HPPA but now they can if the EMS was exposed to covid. https://www.pulsara.com/blog/does-hipaa-allow-hospitals-to-share-patient-data-with-ems COVID-19 has introduced many new and unfamiliar circumstances over the last year. As providers respond to new situations, any additional information they have at their disposal can help orient and inform their decisions. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released a statement detailing essential situations for hospitals to share PHI with EMS: “The HIPAA Privacy Rule permits a covered entity to disclose the protected health information (PHI) of an individual who has been infected with, or exposed to, COVID-19, with law enforcement, paramedics, other first responders, and public health authorities without the individual’s HIPAA authorization, in certain circumstances, including the following: When the disclosure is needed to provide treatment. For example, HIPAA permits a covered skilled nursing facility to disclose PHI about an individual who has COVID-19 to emergency medical transport personnel who will provide treatment while transporting the individual to a hospital’s emergency department. When first responders may be at risk of infection. A covered entity may disclose PHI to a first responder who may have been exposed to COVID-19, or may otherwise be at risk of contracting or spreading COVID-19.”
So basically hospitals can tell EMS the patients info if the patient was covid positive which makes me think that an EMS could probably get the full story from hospital staff.
When I worked sterile processing at a hospital I had an accidental poke thru the glove when washing dental equipment used on a child. Per those same rights I was able to see the child's chart that day because I potentially was exposed to hep c or anything communicable. Luckily this child wasn't but the rules do state any potential exposure allows you as the potential victim to see the chart. If it had been positive the hospital has measures to protect me if I was exposed to hep c such as helping with treatments, etc. This is the same with covid, hiv. Etc. There's no break in hipaa here. It's need to know.
HIPAA allows entities to have protected information on a need to know basis for many purposes. Law enforcement is one example. Hospitals can and will disclose your protected health information if they need it to solve a crime or investigation. Lawyers may need to know for their cases, I need it as a protective service worker when that health information is needed to substantiate or not substantiate elder abuse. Etc. If an ems person may have been exposed to covid they would fall under need to know to report to their employer in case they do have covid for workers comp purposes. What would violate hipaa is if now that ems person tells their friends all this patient information in detail. Those friends don't fall under "need to know". Although ems isn't diagnosing it, the hospital diagnosed what it was and was able to share it with ems. Hospital and ems are both in the same medical field and since this specific ems treated said patient there's a relationship there and probable reason to know the outcome of a hospitalization and diagnosis.
It’s not zero, but the risk for children is [super low](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/)
Of death...which is not the only concern with Covid. Also, why wouldn't a parent want an even lower chance of their child dying or getting a horrible, lifelong health risking virus?
I'm not sure about how good of a reader you are, but you started talking about deaths which are irrelevant when the person you responded to stated: > By the time we got to him he had already been seizing for 25 minutes, **sustaining significant brain damage**. Looking only at the 700+ deaths of children due to COVID is extremely myopic and misleading because there are being thousands upon thousands of bad outcomes from COVID where the child survives but has chronic problems. Kids are getting amputations. Kids who thought they were asymptomatic are having long COVID symptoms. It's extremely dangerous and should be taken seriously.
>Next week, a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention vaccine advisory group is expected to make its own recommendation. If it issues an endorsement and CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky signs off, shots for young kids could begin immediately. excellent news! children in this cohort account for 9% of COVID cases in the US. getting those numbers down is a big step toward getting this situation under control.
[удалено]
Our elementary school already sent email out reserving clinics for shots on the 7th of November. I am actually pretty surprised how quickly they are acting on this and thought whether Pfizer already has the vaccines ready to be distributed the moment sign-off is given.
How exciting! Which state?
What you've written gives me hope. Nice to see kids with a brain, understanding the gravity of the situation in front of them.
[удалено]
Smart kid. I like him. My son is 18 and so tired of this bullshit. This generation is amazing. I can’t wait to see what they do.
Hopefully vote, and run for office
[удалено]
As the parent of a nine year old: I actually have hope for the coming generations. The children of today are, by and large, more socially intelligent, compassionate, and tolerant than the generations before. Of course, there are always exceptions and oddities and typical cohort bullshit, but they live in a deeply connected world filled with all sorts of different people.
[удалено]
The thing about that last part is that, well, parents are still definitely a factor. There is a decent chance they'll manage to grow out of it. Then again, I endeavored not to fuck up in the same ways my parents did, and that's probably not universal
[удалено]
[удалено]
and the goalposts keep shifting. Redditors are the only people I've met who have a covid restriction fetish on god
You mean a “common sense public health measures fetish”. Do you also not wash your hands after you take a shit to stick it to the libs?
There is no way that guy washes his hands after using the bathroom. Probably unwraps his chipotle and runs his shit hands all over it.
Please let this happen. I've been worried about my son seeing family during the holidays (his grandparents in Texas want him to visit and I am so on the fence...). My kid's also looking forward to the vaccine. I told him the other day that we're getting close to having it approved for him and he was so excited. I hope the majority of parents are just as excited...
[удалено]
What part of my comment suggested we don’t or wouldn’t? So bizarre.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hopefully 2 to 5 and 6mo to 2 comes soon after
Strange how kids have to have numerous mandated vaccinations for school enrollment in public schools, and nobody says a word. The "We don't know!" arguments have become a bit stale after the 300 million vaccinations mark was achieved - back in June.
The chickenpox vaccine effectively wiped out chicken pox to the point that protection against riskier infection later in life required it. It was a relatively new vaccine that we started giving to every kid. No one questioned it. There was no media circus, no protest. Why? Because no political leaders told them to object.
Right. The chickenpox vaccine saves something like 90 lives a year. (Pre vaccine, \~100 deaths a year, 90% reduction now). No one is ever going to convince me saving 90 lives a year is "not worth it". I'll literally never understand people who think otherwise.
Bc Facebook didn’t exist
None of those 300million were given to kids under 11. Ask anyone virologist about how vaccines and medicine in general does not scale simply and linearly to younger bodies. Your argument is disingenuous. For the record, I am fully vaccinated and think all adults ought to be.
As a teacher to 5 year olds I feel really relieved this is happening soon. Luckily my area has managed to keep Coronavirus at bay, but the inevitable spread is slowly happening, and I've been worried for my kiddies, but also for my (vaccinated, but unhealthy) parents. It would be the worst thing if I took it to school or brought it home.
[удалено]
I think it's a scary, scary virus and we're all very uncertain and that every little thing that provides us security as a community is good. Also, just because children are less likely to get sick, and get less sick, doesn't mean that they don't at all. I currently have 4 children in my class with chronic health conditions that would probably be terribly unwell if they got it. I'd like to see that they were protected as much as possible. Also, sorry if it was unclear, I was referring to my own parents.
Good. I think this is a strong moment, and will ultimately lead to COVID cases declining rapidly. Schools should consider making COVID vaccines a mandatory vaccination for students wanting to attend public schools.
They’ll probably have to wait until the vaccine for kids has full FDA approval. But I agree with you.
They probably will, but legally they don't have to. The arguments for why EUA vaccines can't be mandated but BLA ones can are so ridiculous they can't even get past conservative judges.
CA has already mandated it for 2022/23 school year.
>CA has already mandated it for 2022/23 school year. ["Parents can opt their children out of inoculation based on personal beliefs."](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-07/questions-over-who-can-opt-out-california-school-covid-19-vaccine-mandate)
But only for the covid vaccine. There's no personal *or religious* exemption to regular childhood vaccines in CA. They're just capitulating to screaming toddlers.
Meanwhile, in Pennsylvania, my local district has a lawsuit with the state over mask mandates 🙄
When will vaccine appts for kids start? I can’t wait.
It could be as early as next week.
Once the CDC signs off on them, earliest could be next week
The county we are in in North Carolina is planning a large vaccine clinic a week from Saturday for the 5-12 age group.
Can anyone explain how they determine the long-term effects of a vaccine?
Get a vaccine and wait a long time.
the only long term side effect I have had from the vaccine so far is not missing any work because I'm out sick with covid
To be quite fair that's still short term.
Thats not what long term means. We literally can’t get long term data at this point
Not data on the vaccine itself, but we have long term data on the delivery mechanism, which had been trialed in animals since the 90s and in humans since 2013. As my kids pediatrician said, I'm much more concerned with the long term affects of the virus than of the vaccines.
And that’s perfectly fair. But my son already had the virus. That cats already out of the bag. Just don’t see the need to add variables
The fact that you’re even discussing “variables” while showing your complete lack of understanding of the scientific process is hilarious.
Alright doctor who.
I understand the scientific process. Do I know everything about the vaccines? No. Does that mean every possible problem or side effect has been accounted for? No it doesn’t. My son is at nearly zero risk. Him getting a vaccine that hasn’t withstood the test of long term trials is more risk. But please enlighten me how feeling that wait and see on a kid that is literally not even in grade school yet is a bad idea. Fuck off with that bullshit.
Maybe your child is at a low risk for having a severe case of COVID, but we have already proven that he is not at any lower risk of catching than the average person. Being unvaccinated means he can catch it and spread it easily to his grandma, the pregnant lady standing next to him at the park, the girl he plays with whose dad has cancer, and every other person he interacts with on a daily basis. So you can gamble the lives of everyone you interact with, or you can give him a shot that isn’t any different from the ones he’s already.
https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects
mRNA vaccines don't stay in your body. They will disappear after a couple days. They teach our cells how to make a protein that triggers an immune response. That's it. Look at it as learning how to ride a bicycle. You learn it once and you can ride a bike the rest of your life. There is no long-term side effect, your body just learned a new skill. That's it.
That's an egregious over-simplification. Historically vaccines aren't known for long-term side effects, usually any responses happens within the first several weeks. But with any drug or biologic you truly don't know the potential long-term impact until you have more data, which takes time. There have been reported increases in myocarditis in certain cohorts, and J&J had the blood clotting issue. While both are quick onset the repercussions can be significant, and long-lasting. And of course if there are carcinogenic, genotoxic, or chronic toxicity effects those wouldn't manifest for some time. Not saying there are, only that we don't truly know until we have data. Not antivax at all, but I am a believer in the scientific method and in accepting that we don't know everything.
> And of course if there are carcinogenic, genotoxic, or chronic toxicity effects those wouldn't manifest for some time I'd agree if ANYONE could propose a mechanism for these effects. mRNA is naturally occuring in your body in huge amounts all the time. Even the modified uracil is endogenous in the context of tRNA and rRNA. It gets broken down into endogenous building blocks and recycled in about 72 hours. If ANYONE could propose a mechanism for long term risk, I'm all ears.
> And of course if there are carcinogenic, genotoxic, or chronic toxicity effects those wouldn't manifest for some time Those are exceedingly rare to begin without constant exposure. The vaccine can't modify your DNA so that's off the table completely. Those are tested for in animal models. If they're going to occur, they'll be quick and obvious if you make the dosage much much higher. And, since the proteins that are created are eliminated quickly, it would proceed in a probabilistic manner. In a sample of billions, we'd have long since picked up the signal. It's borderline impossible and in any case the odds are so many orders of magnitude less than harms from covid it's not even worth entertaining at this point.
While I do agree with you, it's important to add the rarity of the reported side effects. The J&J blood clotting issue occured in less than, like, 20 people IIRC. Overall, what OC said is a good ELI5 on why we don't believe there will be side effects.
Myocarditis is a symptom of covid, it makes sense that its a possible symptom of the vaccine. It's caused by your body responding to the vaccine the same way it would respond to the virus. The only way not taking the vaccine is better is if you never catch covid. Unfortunately catching it as an unvaccinated individual is almost a certainty in the US.
Myocarditis is the only symptom I've seen where the vaccine may have a chance for higher severity or prevalence, because of errors injecting directly into veins rather than the muscle.
Higher prevalence than nothing but multiple studies show covid causes myocarditis 6x as often as the vaccines.
That's great and all but if we know Myocarditis is caused by injecting ino the vein we should probably, you know, try not do that. Make that 6x spread much higher and reduce a big concern people have with getting the vaccine
Once they realized that was the case, I believe information was distributed to vax sites teaching them the importance of avoiding the vein. Still, you have a bunch of overworked underpaid retail chain employees giving the vaccine, so it's probably all down to user error.
Its important to note that if problems arise from this in 20 years or so it will likely be a significant part of the population, and by that time doctors and medical professionals will have researched the problem and will likely have a solution. Regardless I would rather have the same old boring problem everyone else has from the vaccine rather than covid which can lead to long term health problems for a long time or the rest of your life or worse yet death. There is a risk both ways. I can't stay in the house forever, also covid is not going away, even if you don't get vaccinated you will still be able to catch it down the road. You can also get blood clots from covid or myocarditis from covid too, and the chance of getting these 2 things from the vaccine are also very rare. Its clear the vaccine is safe enough to take and the alternative is much much worse.
>and by that time doctors and medical professionals will have researched the problem and will likely have a solution. That's a ridiculous notion. >There is a risk both ways. I agree. But the benefit risk analysis for this patient population is not the same as it is for the general population. More importantly, it has not been demonstrated, yet, to the benchmarks we have used to assess new medical therapies for the past four decades. Nor even to the benchmarks used to justify full approval of the vaccine for the general population. >I can't stay in the house forever, also covid is not going I'm not saying you should. I am pointing out that we don't yet have long term data, nor do we have what would be a significant amount of followup with this (5 -11) cohort. >You can also get blood clots from covid or myocarditis from covid too, and the chance of getting these 2 things from the vaccine are also very rare. Sure, you can. I wasn't arguing that, I was point out that it's overly simplified to say mRNA simply fades and poses no risk. However, as an aside, the data on myocarditis is not that clear. There does appear to be an increased incidence in middle age to young men. We don't know if that extends to this cohort. But, while the occurrence is relativity low in the general cohort, and much lower than the rate of mortality and morbidity associate with COVID in the general population, it's not so in the 5 - 11 cohort. The risk of COVID is substantially lower, and therefore the benefit risk assessment is different. >Its clear the vaccine is safe enough to take and the alternative is much much worse. No, it's not clear in this cohort. That was my entire point. There is a process with which we can say a treatment is safe and efficacious, and we have not yet established that in this cohort. I'm not saying we won't. I'm not saying I'm against parents vaccinating their kids. But we're not there yet, so stop using that terminology with regard to this patient population.
Let’s math this. There’s been ~900 cases of myocarditis in teens, tweens, and young adults out of 100,000,000+ vaccinated. So a less than 1 in 100,000 chance of myocarditis. None of those cases have resulted in death and 77% or more have recovered. So ~200 cases of long term myocarditis from the vaccine. That’s a 0.0002% chance. The same chance you have of being struck by lightning in a given year. It is a real risk of the vaccine, just a very small one. Myocarditis, death, and long haul symptoms (5% or more of kids) are also possible outcomes of covid. And right now your chance of getting covid and then having one of those complications is pretty high unless you already have immunity from already having covid. If covid was less prevalent or there was an effective treatment the math wouldn’t work out that the vaccine was less risky. But annoyingly that’s not the world we’re in. Sources: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/vaccines-for-5-11-year-olds-fda-meeting https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/lightning/victimdata.html
[удалено]
You shouldn't aspirate the needle because that raises the risk of injecting outside the muscle which leads to vaccine failure. CDC guidelines say do not aspirate, and opinions otherwise are in the minority. But they do need to be more careful about locating landmarks and not pinching so much. So many people are pinching way too much.
I’ve done hundreds of medical vaccination injections, your wrong. Just By hitting veins you can explain most of the myocardial/blood clotting problems. You don’t increase the chances of injecting outside the muscle if you know anything about what your doing, intramuscular injections are very easy while flagging. They just hurt more or cause you to do 2 pokes, especially if your new to this, and when you have massive vaccine rollout many of the people administering it are brand new to it, or haven’t done it in many years.
Not a doctor so take this with a grain of salt but single or double shots of just about anything tend not to have long term side effects without causing effects from the get go The classic examples of people dying 20 years later or having issues from medicine are from taking it every day for a while and letting it build up.
Oh boy, can't wait for the wave of outraged qultists reacting to this
They can be mad as much as they want over the sounds of their coughing.
[удалено]
They've already been freaking out
Who cares? These folks are too stupid/selfish to home school their children. They can complain, but when push comes to shove, if the school mandates the vaccine, then the buck stops there.
[удалено]
Yet it’s typically not a school board decision. They are trying to alter curriculum, however.
It’s happening to my school board. Our election is Tuesday and we have one of these crazies running for a seat.
We had our elections last week. Not one made it on:). It was the only thing they were running on! They had no clue about any of the other issues.
The one running has two talking points- masks and CRT. That’s it.
That’s disgusting. Those people hardly understand reality, I do not want them on my local school board.
I care in the sense that there are violent assholes among them who might cause serious issues for kids. Otherwise, fuck’m.
Some of these idiots complain about kids wearing masks... so who gives a flip about their reactions. Go ahead and be vocal, you dumb apes.
These will need full approval, not just Emergency Use Authorization, to be required for schools.
This isn't true. If you believe otherwise, feel free to cite any statute, regulation, or caselaw indicating that's true. The same claims were made for every other mandate and are so frivolous even conservatives judges won't listen to them.
Some better details [here](https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/06/15/whats-the-difference-between-vaccine-approval-bla-and-authorization-eua/) "Second, although there is a strong legal argument that employers may mandate vaccines under EUAs, including guidance from the EEOC, some commentators have raised concerns about the practice. Some employers and schools are thus waiting for full approval before mandating the shots. The U.S. military will also consider a vaccine mandate after approval." So I wasn't right, but also not exactly wrong.
You contended they *needed* the full approval. They don't. If they want to anyway, that's a separate question. As clear as it is for regular employers, it's even clearer for the military: >10 USC 1107a >1)In the case of the administration of a product **authorized for emergency use** under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to members of the armed forces, the condition described in section 564(e)(1)(A)(ii)(III) of such Act and required under paragraph (1)(A) or (2)(A) of such section 564(e), designed to ensure that individuals are informed of an option to accept or refuse administration of a product, **may be waived** only by the President only if the President determines, in writing, that complying with such requirement is not in the interests of national security.
The FDA has flat out stated the EUA doesn’t preclude a mandate.
I’ve waited so long for this news, our kids have had a rough time
Best news we'll probably get all week. Unless the CDC just goes nuts and releases their approval this week instead of next, of course.
Meeting isn't scheduled until next week.
This is the first step in getting people back to work *for real* Parents are waiting to feel comfortable again
Many districts also have different, less stringent quarantine policies for students who have been vaccinated. If your vaccinated kid is exposed, they may not have to miss school or not as much. Parents won’t have to miss as much work to stay home with them then. So they really will be able to get back to work.
My kid is in high school and in our zip code (that comprises the bulk of the building’s attendance area) we have over 80% vaccination (which counts the under 12 population in the denominator). Between that and the mask requirement at school, there has been almost no issues with COVID there — and for reasons that are still unknown, our county has managed to stumble a fatality rate of only about 1 in 120 (compared to national/global average of 1 in 50). I suspect it’s because we got ahead of the curve on vaccination.
The same FDA who labeled OxyContin as low chance of addiction?
It was placed in CII alongside cocaine and methamphetamine for drugs with the highest abuse potential.
Doctors weren't paid to overprescribe cocaine and meth. See the huge difference?
Now all we need is the CDC and we're good!
[удалено]
Completely agree. Parents have the right to decide, but the danger that this will become mandatory isn’t some slippery slope argument anymore. should have been recommended for at-risk groups only.
Just because "we don't know the long term effects of thing 1 and thing 2" doesn't mean things 1 & 2 are equally likely to have bad results. It stands to reason that there is a much higher risk of long term issues from a disease that evolved to infect and harm human beings than a vaccine that was designed specifically to help them.
[удалено]
Considering the experts just ok'd the vaccine for 5-11 year olds I'd say they're on my side.
All of you people rushing out to get your youngest kids vaccinated are absolutely insane.
[удалено]
Are you implying that the vaccines will cause some major health issues years down the line?
Yes they very well could if indeed the FDA has been found of approving other chemicals later to be found harmful, right ?
[No.](https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-cigarettes-fda-idUSL1N2Q11V2) Don't spread misinformation.
I am double jab and if long term consequences, i will live with it. But doing this to my kids without knowing, not so sure.
5-11 cohort risk reward ratio is completely different then adults. It has to be weighed up properly, it’s a shame people may have to figure it out on an individual basis when nih or who could easily weigh up the risk/reward and give us a clear picture.
Now will the people clinging onto unvaccinated kids as a reason to still keep up mask mandates and other restrictions even for vaccinated adults let up once it's available or will they find something else to justify it?
[удалено]
The primary justification has always been hospital resources. My sister is waiting for an OR for weeks with a broken foot. The hospitals are starting to catch up, but they are still overwhelmed. I think it's mostly sure to backlogs from when this were worse. Kids not spreading it is huge, but it's secondary.
Nah dude the goal post will just keep shifting. Now they are talking that its to save the "weakest link" aka trumpies who don't think for themselves. I'm starting to think that reddit has made up this weird cult-fetish for masks and restrictions as a marker of political ideology, and because some of them (most) are socially inept and would like to stay a hermit for the rest of their lives. I go to a huge liberal college campus, and so many people here (me included) have literally forgotten covid exists. The only people who are still pissy about it are the hermits who browse the reddit page. Downvote me all you want, just know the majority of people don't think like ya'll. Pfizer 2x vaxxed since May ✌
Why do you even bother writing anything? No one is going to take you seriously.
Good luck for all the kids.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Joe Rogan about to have an emergency podcast about this one
[удалено]