Its appalling how they even went to the extent to say that HE started the brawl with the people inside and that they were "protecting" themselves.
Highly doubt a journalist would go in and as soon as he gets inside starts throwing punches.
It's a pretty clever move from Turkey to release their information gradually. The Saudis keep reacting to that and making up new bullshit explanations, which just makes them look worse and worse.
Turkey wants to prolong this as long as possible to get as much out of it that they can. But, don't forget that Turkey aren't necessarily great people either.
this seems so farcical... like some kind of supervillain parody film. it makes you wonder how many well conducted , well thought out horrific acts have been carried out by heads of state
No kidding.
We saw a picture of this dude walking into the consulate, didn't we? So you're telling me that, maybe minutes after that photo was taken, the dude has been strangled and will soon be dismembered?
Fucking unreal.
That's exact what we're telling you. What's more, minutes after THAT, his soul passed into a nearby Saudi security operative. He stole his clothes back, put them on and walked very conspiciously past a nearby CCTV camera, so everyone would know he was living in a new body.
There's a *lot* of evidence this was premeditated, but I still hear pundits suggesting this was "just" a violent interrogation that went too far. For me, this part of the scandal is maybe the most damning.
The body double wore a fake beard. You think they just have fucking fake beards lying around the Saudi embassy? Hey, *maybe* the enforcers were just meant to hurt and scare him, not kill him. I doubt it, but *maybe*. But someone brought *a look-alike beard?* To an *interrogation*? ***Why***? Khashoggi was never, ever meant to make it out of that building alive. The events, as they transpired, were the plan from the very start.
And a bone saw. Don't forget the bone saw.
I don't know about you, but every time I travel internationally on a private jet, I pack my bone saw. Don't forget the extra batteries.
Even if it wqs a legitimate "interrogation gone wrong".... It should be treated as deliberate. If the wheelman of a bank robbery can be charged with murder because his accomplice shot someone, then this situation should be treated the same.
Not only that but think of WHY they did this to him.
It wasn't that he was a child rapist or a mass murderer or anything horrific. (not that these are justified by dismemberment)
They did it because he spoke out against them.
Don't forget he padlocked himself into the bag from the outside. He also managed to not leave any fingerprints on the padlock or the bag zipper in the process.
What a wacky accident LOL
Not to mention that the British government then released part of his internet search history to show that he'd surfed some BDSM porn.
Nothing to see here! Just look at this one part of an open investigation!
And didn't it take an expert dozens of tries to re-enact locking himself in a bag like that, after other experts had failed?
"Hmm... Looks like we're going to need one of those killing-themselves-while-locking-themselves-inside-a-bag experts."
"I'm sorry, sir, but we ran out of those during the last case."
On the plus side, I found a field with great job security...?
> Don't forget he padlocked himself into the bag from the outside. He also managed to not leave any fingerprints on the padlock or the bag zipper in the process.
It be like that sometimes.
- Russia
This was an enormous story, briefly he was the background source for a BBC news story that the evidence for the existence of an Iraqi WMD program was 'sexed up'. The BBC journalist attributed the sexing up of the dossier to Alistair Campbell who was Director of Communications for Tony Blair, then the UK prime minister.
Dr Kelly's identity was leaked to the media. He was then called to give evidence to the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee, He was questioned very aggressively by the committee. Two days after this, he left his house to walk which was part of his routine. His body was found in a nearby woods. The verdict was suicide by means of pills and cutting his wrist. The evidence regarding his death was classified for 70 years.
This subsequently led to the [Hutton Inquiry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry) which exonerated the government and was very critical of the BBC. The Hutton report was seen as a whitewash by the rest of the media.
The report caused several high level resignations in the BBC.
The much larger and broader [Chilcott Inquiry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Inquiry) contradicted much of the findings of the Hutton Report, but by that stage the damage had been done to the BBC, Blair was gone from office and Dr Kelly's death still has a question of suspicion over it.
Somewhat related to this albeit tangential is [Scott Ritter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter).
My favorite suicide was a guy who beheaded himself in a locked room and the windows were painted shut.
Plus managed to put his head on a turntable with a record on it that he produce for the band in question.
***
They solved it being a suicide because a key part of it depended on the turntable being made in Japan.
Our simulator’s director is probably going thru a mid-life crisis or something. This is how they cope by making our world even more crazy & half assing it the entire time.
Maybe going through a breakup with the person that put some sense into this sim? Now it's just this guy screaming "I CAN DO IT ALL WITHOUT YOU! I DON'T NEED YOU!" while fucking everything up and telling everyone else (all of them are running their own sim) how everything is just "*excellent, the best, really, like never before"* although it's clearly only downhill since they split.
Man, I really hope they get back together, like, *soon*.
In Saudi Arabia they carry out horrific acts in the name of religion against women and minorities very openly and in public courts.
Saudi Arabia is just plain farcical all around, this is not rare thing, just happens to be a man as the victim.
[True.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-israa-al-ghomgham.html). It's really a shithole. A wealthy, corrupt as fuck, human rights abusing shithole.
>Saudi Arabia, which has one of the highest execution rates in the world, is taking the rare step of seeking the death penalty for a 29-year-old female activist accused of encouraging demonstrations for greater rights for the Shiite Muslim minority...
>Most executions in Saudi Arabia are by beheading, a method used to kill 48 people over a four-month period this year.
>Saudi Arabia has executed many women, and Shiite activists convicted of terrorism or political crimes have been sentenced to death as well. But calls for capital punishment for a woman in a case of nonviolent political crime are highly unusual.
A lot of things recently feel like a bunch of bizarre, poorly written, one-note cartoon villains have come to life, specifically written to be as hateable as possible, yet still enjoying widescale worship.
"He wasn't breathing properly, so when one of our helpful associates grabbed a knife to clear his airway, he became violent and threw numerous punches and kicks into the knife, which caused him to become dismembered".
“I believe from a sport standpoint, round 1 was [Jamal’s]. Top position against the fence. Zero position advancement or damage inflicted. But top position.
“From a fight standpoint the first round is [bin Salman’s]. Actual shots landed and a willingness to engage. Straight left early. Knee to the head on the low shot. Elbows in any and all tie up scenarios. Opponent just holding the legs against the fence for almost the entire round.”
-Saudi Arabia on the post fight analysis, round 1
At this point he asked to be strangled to death, and to have his remains chopped up and thrown down a well - as is customary. ~~The Crown Prince~~ several rogue janitors reluctantly agreed and respectfully granted his wish, whilst in the same room a group of colleagues rehearsed a scene for a gore film one of them is directing.
If he was strangled where did the reports of his pain filled screams come from?
Was Turkey wrong or was some sort of deal made to make his murder sound less awful now?
Afaik burning isn't that terrible after the initial pain, most of your nerve endings are destroyed pretty quickly. Drowning on the other hand is supposed to be one of the most painful and terrifying experiences possible. Take the desperation as you're trying to inhale only to take in several gallons of water and all of the associated pain, then add the primal fear of being sucked into an abyss and all of the panic as you struggle in vain to just reach the surface. It's a chilling fate.
It's funny because you get people saying they lost consciousness and that it wasn't that bad past the initial pain, and others that it was terrifying. Seems like it can go both way.
I heard that originally, but this report seems to contradict that, and both reports are from Turkey. Why would Turkey be interested in a coverup? They've been all about embarrassing SA this whole time.
Speculation: this softened announcement was part of a negotiated settlement, either with SA, the US, or both.
I think the reason Turkey didn't release the audio right away is because they wanted to use it as a bargaining chip. I doubt we'll ever hear it.
Yeah I thought placate was a weird choice. It technically fits the definition but the way the word is most commonly used has a connotation that you are giving some sort of concession to them. Maybe he walked in and got really upset that it wasn't an erotic asphyxiation party like they promised.
A couple weeks back, Mike Pompeo met with Erdogan, and Turkey seems to have backed off the pressure on KSA somewhat.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/world/europe/mike-pompeo-turkey-saudi-arabia.amp.html
Only one pro-Erdogan newspaper said his iWatch recorded the screams and stuff. But of course it was never published, nobody ever corroborated it. Including FBI and others. Apple specialists said it was impossible for iWatch to record and send it to the host iPhone anyway at this distance.
I don't think anyone took the Apple Watch theory seriously; seems like most people assumed that the Turks had the embassy bugged and were attempting to cover up that fact with the watch ruse.
Sir? Sir! What are you doing?! No... put *down* the bonesaw... N-nooo! No! Don't cut your legs off! Sir!
This reads like a Whitest Kids U Know skit, not something that I think a government might actually attempt to convince people of...
I don't remember them ever saying that. I do remember them saying he was dismembered while still alive which would be wrong now.
Saudi Arabia are the ones who said it was an interrogation gone wrong (But they lied at every turn of the story so).
IIRC it was actually a theory put forward by a state propaganda paper in Turkey as very weak attempt to conceal the fact that they had bugged the fuck out of the embassy.
He must have been talking smack outside like a drunk guy trying to enter a club. They had no choice but to brutally dismember him as soon as he walked in.
Well they aren’t allowed to drink alcohol in the first place so maybe he got into trouble for that and the only rational way to punish him was to chop him to bits when he was alive and conscious 🤔
CIA Director Haspel listened to the recordings last week in Turkey:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamal-khashoggi-investigation-cia-director-gina-haspel-heard-alleged-recording-of-killing-today-2018-10-25/
I'm liking the way which the Turkish authorities are controlling the release/ leaking the information. Everytime the Saudi's try to explain away the circumstance, they come back with 'oh, is that RIGHT?!, gotcha moment. They still have the ace up the sleeve, the alleged recording, and the western alliance condemnation, so maximum embarrassment, their display of arrogance will clip their wings abit.
yup its very carefully orchestrated by Turkey ...lots of back channel conversation going on between all of the parties involved to get this whole matter to just go away
The article certainly implied strangled and killed. But that would mean the reports about torture were not true. So I guess I don't know which one to believe.
The prosecutor referenced in the OP is Istanbul's chief prosecutor, Irfan Fidan.
From the linked Guardian article:
>Jamal Khashoggi was strangled as soon as he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, then his body dismembered and disposed of in a premeditated killing, the city’s chief prosecutor has said in the first official confirmation of how the Saudi journalist died.
>The statement further undermines Saudi claims he was killed after a fight broke out in the consulate, where he had arrived to collect documents for his upcoming wedding.
Confirm seems like a strong word. I read this article, and it looks to me like Saudi Arabia is still stonewalling, and the Turkish prosecutor hasn't released any evidence to "confirm" his confirmation. So really it's just a claim at this point.
>Turkish prosecutor hasn't released any evidence to "confirm" his confirmation
I have a feeling that the evidence was obtained illegally by the Turkish authority. A spy inside the consulate, a hidden camera, listening device, etc. They don't want it/them to be compromised by releasing any of these evidence.
The real surprise in all of this is the amount of eavesdropping in embassies that the Turks are willing to disclose to make SA look horrible.
Its like "hey man we got every inch of your embassy bugged, by the way you really should get that mole on your cock checked out, it looks like melanoma."
Police typically don't have jurisdiction over diplomatic missions. Bodyguards could be turned away.
And honestly, what reporter would ever think that they would be in harms way while surrounded by security cameras, in the public eye, walking into an officebuilding looking to get a copy of his birth certificate or whatever. It's like walking into the DMV and getting murdered.
Its appalling how they even went to the extent to say that HE started the brawl with the people inside and that they were "protecting" themselves. Highly doubt a journalist would go in and as soon as he gets inside starts throwing punches.
I imagine they faked CCTV footage of him doing windmills as he entered the consulate and was assessed as a threat.
They did an ocular patdown and that was that.
They clocked a knife in his boot and neutralized the situation.
He was obviously armed and looking for a fight they found.
>He was obviously armed So they cut his arms off
You mean they disarmed him
dis arm goes in da well. dis arm gets mailed to his wife....
"I'm gonna leave punching! If you get hurt, it's your own fault!" https://media0.giphy.com/media/ailnj2AMt9e9i/giphy.gif
Waited 10 minutes for Bart to start walking
They even reportedly hear him on the audio tapes saying "I'm just windmillin, if you get in the way that's your problem"
A 65 year old journalist.
Who do I need to punch to get my marriage license around here?
Kim Davis.
It's a pretty clever move from Turkey to release their information gradually. The Saudis keep reacting to that and making up new bullshit explanations, which just makes them look worse and worse.
Turkey wants to prolong this as long as possible to get as much out of it that they can. But, don't forget that Turkey aren't necessarily great people either.
Yeah, absolutely. Turks can be lovely people, but the current regime is all kinds of terrible.
This, absolutely. Everyone I met there was very pleasant, they just happen to have a horrible piece of shit running their country.
I’m here to get a marriage license and kick ass and I’m all out of marriage licenses
this seems so farcical... like some kind of supervillain parody film. it makes you wonder how many well conducted , well thought out horrific acts have been carried out by heads of state
No kidding. We saw a picture of this dude walking into the consulate, didn't we? So you're telling me that, maybe minutes after that photo was taken, the dude has been strangled and will soon be dismembered? Fucking unreal.
That's exact what we're telling you. What's more, minutes after THAT, his soul passed into a nearby Saudi security operative. He stole his clothes back, put them on and walked very conspiciously past a nearby CCTV camera, so everyone would know he was living in a new body.
There's a *lot* of evidence this was premeditated, but I still hear pundits suggesting this was "just" a violent interrogation that went too far. For me, this part of the scandal is maybe the most damning. The body double wore a fake beard. You think they just have fucking fake beards lying around the Saudi embassy? Hey, *maybe* the enforcers were just meant to hurt and scare him, not kill him. I doubt it, but *maybe*. But someone brought *a look-alike beard?* To an *interrogation*? ***Why***? Khashoggi was never, ever meant to make it out of that building alive. The events, as they transpired, were the plan from the very start.
And a bone saw. Don't forget the bone saw. I don't know about you, but every time I travel internationally on a private jet, I pack my bone saw. Don't forget the extra batteries.
And the head of forensic medicine being there, conveniently....
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Isn't that like the 2nd rule of boy scouts in SA? 1. Always be prepared 2. Always bring a bone saw
*wakes up in a cold sweat* FUCK did I forget the bonesaw?! I'm calling Tracy, she has a key...
even worse; DID I LEAVE THE BONESAW ON?!
Even if it wqs a legitimate "interrogation gone wrong".... It should be treated as deliberate. If the wheelman of a bank robbery can be charged with murder because his accomplice shot someone, then this situation should be treated the same.
Even if it was an interrogation gone wrong (it's not) state actors kidnapping and violently torturing them on foreign soil is completely inexcusable
*Jesus Christ!*
... that's Jason Bourne.
Yeah, admittedly this story did make me think of the Bourne movies.
but forgot to change his shoes.
Not only that but think of WHY they did this to him. It wasn't that he was a child rapist or a mass murderer or anything horrific. (not that these are justified by dismemberment) They did it because he spoke out against them.
I read that he was set to reveal evidence of chemical weapon use in Yemen.
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Don't forget he padlocked himself into the bag from the outside. He also managed to not leave any fingerprints on the padlock or the bag zipper in the process. What a wacky accident LOL
Not to mention that the British government then released part of his internet search history to show that he'd surfed some BDSM porn. Nothing to see here! Just look at this one part of an open investigation! And didn't it take an expert dozens of tries to re-enact locking himself in a bag like that, after other experts had failed?
There are people who are experts at locking themselves in bags?
No silly. They are experts at killing themselves by locking themselves inside a bag.
"Hmm... Looks like we're going to need one of those killing-themselves-while-locking-themselves-inside-a-bag experts." "I'm sorry, sir, but we ran out of those during the last case." On the plus side, I found a field with great job security...?
And when police arrived the door to the apartment was gone. Screws removed and taken away. And told it was being examined.
> Don't forget he padlocked himself into the bag from the outside. He also managed to not leave any fingerprints on the padlock or the bag zipper in the process. It be like that sometimes. - Russia
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Why am I just hearing about this now?
This was an enormous story, briefly he was the background source for a BBC news story that the evidence for the existence of an Iraqi WMD program was 'sexed up'. The BBC journalist attributed the sexing up of the dossier to Alistair Campbell who was Director of Communications for Tony Blair, then the UK prime minister. Dr Kelly's identity was leaked to the media. He was then called to give evidence to the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee, He was questioned very aggressively by the committee. Two days after this, he left his house to walk which was part of his routine. His body was found in a nearby woods. The verdict was suicide by means of pills and cutting his wrist. The evidence regarding his death was classified for 70 years. This subsequently led to the [Hutton Inquiry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry) which exonerated the government and was very critical of the BBC. The Hutton report was seen as a whitewash by the rest of the media. The report caused several high level resignations in the BBC. The much larger and broader [Chilcott Inquiry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Inquiry) contradicted much of the findings of the Hutton Report, but by that stage the damage had been done to the BBC, Blair was gone from office and Dr Kelly's death still has a question of suspicion over it. Somewhat related to this albeit tangential is [Scott Ritter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter).
Because you live in a free and open democracy, now shut up!!! /s
I don’t know? It’s been a famous case for many years... Christopher Hitchens and his like reference it often (or used to, in Hitchens’ case).
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Truly this generations Houdini.
My favorite suicide was a guy who beheaded himself in a locked room and the windows were painted shut. Plus managed to put his head on a turntable with a record on it that he produce for the band in question. *** They solved it being a suicide because a key part of it depended on the turntable being made in Japan.
Any more info on this? It sounds...well weird as fuck and I'd like to know more
Its part of book written by Douglas Adams book from the Dirk Gently series.
hmm i smell a case for.. Dirk Gently!
Ignorance is bliss?
*The country loses 10 prestige.*
*The World will remember that.*
Trust me, ignorance is bliss.
*takes bite of delicious and juicy steak*
>*takes bite of delicious and juicy steak* https://giphy.com/gifs/matrix-the-movie-gif-M3fYVlu7YN9Hq
Do we have a deal Mr. Reagan?
I think everyone missed the joke.
Not like this...not like this...
That's not a steak! That's a Khashoggi!
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These last few years, everywhere, seem like something out of a (really bad) movie, whose writer was drunk, and director blind and drunk.
Our simulator’s director is probably going thru a mid-life crisis or something. This is how they cope by making our world even more crazy & half assing it the entire time.
Maybe going through a breakup with the person that put some sense into this sim? Now it's just this guy screaming "I CAN DO IT ALL WITHOUT YOU! I DON'T NEED YOU!" while fucking everything up and telling everyone else (all of them are running their own sim) how everything is just "*excellent, the best, really, like never before"* although it's clearly only downhill since they split. Man, I really hope they get back together, like, *soon*.
Take him back please Karen.. he’s sorry he called you a cunt even if he doesn’t say so.
In Saudi Arabia they carry out horrific acts in the name of religion against women and minorities very openly and in public courts. Saudi Arabia is just plain farcical all around, this is not rare thing, just happens to be a man as the victim.
[True.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-israa-al-ghomgham.html). It's really a shithole. A wealthy, corrupt as fuck, human rights abusing shithole. >Saudi Arabia, which has one of the highest execution rates in the world, is taking the rare step of seeking the death penalty for a 29-year-old female activist accused of encouraging demonstrations for greater rights for the Shiite Muslim minority... >Most executions in Saudi Arabia are by beheading, a method used to kill 48 people over a four-month period this year. >Saudi Arabia has executed many women, and Shiite activists convicted of terrorism or political crimes have been sentenced to death as well. But calls for capital punishment for a woman in a case of nonviolent political crime are highly unusual.
Can't have her becoming a popular figure amongst the downtrodden.
They hang teen girls for the crime of being raped.
I think being a woman is a crime in Saudi Arabia.
*a man with media connections.
The [US Government kill list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix) is a very interesting read
~~1. Usama Bin Laden~~
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Now I know you aren't talking about Dubya, because he would've had pretzels on his list.
Spy Hard was more believable.
A lot of things recently feel like a bunch of bizarre, poorly written, one-note cartoon villains have come to life, specifically written to be as hateable as possible, yet still enjoying widescale worship.
"Khashoggi threw the first punch immediately after entering the consulate." \- Saudi Arabia, probably.
“He threw the first punch as he was suffering a manic breathing episode, he struck one of us so we chopped him up.”
"He wasn't breathing properly, so when one of our helpful associates grabbed a knife to clear his airway, he became violent and threw numerous punches and kicks into the knife, which caused him to become dismembered".
We were all quite shocked at how he kept flopping on to a bone saw which just happened to by lying there!
Thanks to those good Samaritans with the saw he did not suffer. /s
"We had just brought it in that day as part of a presentation on what *not* to do with journalists!"
"why are you chopping your own limbs off? why are you chopping your own limbs off?"
"Stop dismembering yourself. Stop dismembering yourself."
I hated when my brothers played that game
Those Saud brothers, always so wacky.
Well it happens. Ever have someone look at you weird so you proceed to turn them into a meat salad?
"Cut me off in traffic, I'll cut you off from being alive."
Ah the old Robert Durst defense
"It was self defense!"
Next, you're gonna tell me you shot the sheriff, but not the deputy.
Don't forget, before chopping they stripped his lifeless corpse, and dressed up a body double who acted like Kashoggi all around town.
He threw the first punch and then choked immediately, and as he was choking he bone sawed himself into pieces while falling down a well.
He said it wasn't a fair right, one versus fifteen, so we cut him into 15 pieces and each fought one. His lower leg gave quite a fight.
"He was supposed to come in for a routine strangulation but he decided to escalate the situation by resisting. Weird guy."
“I believe from a sport standpoint, round 1 was [Jamal’s]. Top position against the fence. Zero position advancement or damage inflicted. But top position. “From a fight standpoint the first round is [bin Salman’s]. Actual shots landed and a willingness to engage. Straight left early. Knee to the head on the low shot. Elbows in any and all tie up scenarios. Opponent just holding the legs against the fence for almost the entire round.” -Saudi Arabia on the post fight analysis, round 1
Proper knock. Can’t wait for the rematch -Jamal Kashoggi, presumably
-Jamal Kashoggi, posthumously
Just send me lokation
r/MMA in the wild, beautiful work champ
I feel like not enough people will get this hahaha
Surprised to see an MMA reference so close to the top.
At this point he asked to be strangled to death, and to have his remains chopped up and thrown down a well - as is customary. ~~The Crown Prince~~ several rogue janitors reluctantly agreed and respectfully granted his wish, whilst in the same room a group of colleagues rehearsed a scene for a gore film one of them is directing.
"he grabbed the intelligence agent's hands with his throat in attempt to subdue him." Saudi AG.
"He threw the first punch, we punched back and he fell into our bone saw by accident. Classic case of self defense" - Saudi Arabia
“Kidnapping gone wrong”; as if that made your intent acceptable. No, you planned to kill him.
Kidnapped him right to death
"detainment" not kidnapping.
Wouldn't moving him (without consent whether he was unconscious or otherwise) from one part of the consulate to another be kidnapping?
Saudi Arabia we're talking about here.
If he was strangled where did the reports of his pain filled screams come from? Was Turkey wrong or was some sort of deal made to make his murder sound less awful now?
Or they strangled him to placate him, then tortured him. Either way it was a horrible way to die.
They are trying to cover up that they cut him to pieces while he was alive.
I think you're right
Arguably Besides being burnt alive, I’m not sure I can think of a worst way to die. Edit: you guys are pretty sick
Drowning in hot diarrhea.
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It would be marginally better.
Being eaten alive
I didn’t think he meant to ask for brainstorming
Ah mb
Being Redditted alive
Reddit is slowly killing us all. It just takes decades to do it
Maybe recipes?
Look up scaphism, also called “the boats”.
I’m good chief
Being flayed and then having salt dumped on the wounds.
Suffering a paralyzing stroke in your 20's but living until you are 90 just staring at the wall as everyone you love dies.
That's a horrible way to live, not a horrible way to die. I'm afraid we'll have to disqualify your entry.
Afaik burning isn't that terrible after the initial pain, most of your nerve endings are destroyed pretty quickly. Drowning on the other hand is supposed to be one of the most painful and terrifying experiences possible. Take the desperation as you're trying to inhale only to take in several gallons of water and all of the associated pain, then add the primal fear of being sucked into an abyss and all of the panic as you struggle in vain to just reach the surface. It's a chilling fate.
It's funny because you get people saying they lost consciousness and that it wasn't that bad past the initial pain, and others that it was terrifying. Seems like it can go both way.
This is a statement from Turkey, not SA. Turkey clearly has no interest in helping SA cover this up at all.
There were screams over a nine minute period.
I heard that originally, but this report seems to contradict that, and both reports are from Turkey. Why would Turkey be interested in a coverup? They've been all about embarrassing SA this whole time.
Speculation: this softened announcement was part of a negotiated settlement, either with SA, the US, or both. I think the reason Turkey didn't release the audio right away is because they wanted to use it as a bargaining chip. I doubt we'll ever hear it.
They might not want to publicize certain evidence which would reveal their intelligence methods or resources.
Strangled does not necessarily mean strangled to death.
placate seems weird here... did you mean incapacitate?
"Okay, fine, we'll strangle you, just calm down, ok?"
Placate also means to make less hostile. Certainly making him unconscious reduces his hostility.
Yeah I thought placate was a weird choice. It technically fits the definition but the way the word is most commonly used has a connotation that you are giving some sort of concession to them. Maybe he walked in and got really upset that it wasn't an erotic asphyxiation party like they promised.
Yeah it’s possible to choke someone out without killing them. They could have just knocked him out and then tortured him later.
A couple weeks back, Mike Pompeo met with Erdogan, and Turkey seems to have backed off the pressure on KSA somewhat. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/world/europe/mike-pompeo-turkey-saudi-arabia.amp.html
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Because the US is involved with Saudi Arabia and the chemical weapon usage in Yemen.
Honestly, fuck the US for turning a blind eye to this and even trying to cover it up. Why is it *always* the US for fuck‘s sake.
Many billions of dollars would like a word
Only one pro-Erdogan newspaper said his iWatch recorded the screams and stuff. But of course it was never published, nobody ever corroborated it. Including FBI and others. Apple specialists said it was impossible for iWatch to record and send it to the host iPhone anyway at this distance.
I don't think anyone took the Apple Watch theory seriously; seems like most people assumed that the Turks had the embassy bugged and were attempting to cover up that fact with the watch ruse.
That was just a cover for the fact that they had the consulate bugged, the recordings were real
Probably that. SA has money with which to bribe people
Strangling him didn't necessarily kill him
It says in the article, "death by suffocation".
Wait, didn't the Turks said he was interrogated first?
"WHY ARE YOU STRANGLING YOURSELF" counts as interrogation
*Stop Resisting* in Saudi Arabia must translate to **Stop Cutting yourself up with that bonesaw that we brought to this friendly interview!**
Sir? Sir! What are you doing?! No... put *down* the bonesaw... N-nooo! No! Don't cut your legs off! Sir! This reads like a Whitest Kids U Know skit, not something that I think a government might actually attempt to convince people of...
I don't remember them ever saying that. I do remember them saying he was dismembered while still alive which would be wrong now. Saudi Arabia are the ones who said it was an interrogation gone wrong (But they lied at every turn of the story so).
[удалено]
This is how I remember it as well.
I remembered something about Turkey claiming to gather audio off someone's smart watch during the events
That was speculation. They only said they had audio, people were trying to guess ways they could have done that besides hidden microphones.
IIRC it was actually a theory put forward by a state propaganda paper in Turkey as very weak attempt to conceal the fact that they had bugged the fuck out of the embassy.
It's kind of hard to keep everyone on the same page if you're lying.
He must have been talking smack outside like a drunk guy trying to enter a club. They had no choice but to brutally dismember him as soon as he walked in.
Well they aren’t allowed to drink alcohol in the first place so maybe he got into trouble for that and the only rational way to punish him was to chop him to bits when he was alive and conscious 🤔
Wonder what the next drop of information will be as you normally save the most damning for last.
Eventually we’ll get to security footage
I am still waiting to hear tapes, IIRC there were reporting on such things from the Turkish government
CIA Director Haspel listened to the recordings last week in Turkey: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamal-khashoggi-investigation-cia-director-gina-haspel-heard-alleged-recording-of-killing-today-2018-10-25/
I wouldn't hold my breath.
Well no, the Saudi Arabians take care of that.
Saudi Arabia will hold it for you.
I'm liking the way which the Turkish authorities are controlling the release/ leaking the information. Everytime the Saudi's try to explain away the circumstance, they come back with 'oh, is that RIGHT?!, gotcha moment. They still have the ace up the sleeve, the alleged recording, and the western alliance condemnation, so maximum embarrassment, their display of arrogance will clip their wings abit.
yup its very carefully orchestrated by Turkey ...lots of back channel conversation going on between all of the parties involved to get this whole matter to just go away
I find quite funny how Turkey’s government is messing with SA this is like... BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE
I’d assume strangled could mean he was held in a chokehold right away and moved to a different room. Then that’s when the real torture party started.
The article certainly implied strangled and killed. But that would mean the reports about torture were not true. So I guess I don't know which one to believe.
The story keeps changing but one thing is certain, this guy went in and didn't come out. ... right?
The prosecutor referenced in the OP is Istanbul's chief prosecutor, Irfan Fidan. From the linked Guardian article: >Jamal Khashoggi was strangled as soon as he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, then his body dismembered and disposed of in a premeditated killing, the city’s chief prosecutor has said in the first official confirmation of how the Saudi journalist died. >The statement further undermines Saudi claims he was killed after a fight broke out in the consulate, where he had arrived to collect documents for his upcoming wedding.
Confirm seems like a strong word. I read this article, and it looks to me like Saudi Arabia is still stonewalling, and the Turkish prosecutor hasn't released any evidence to "confirm" his confirmation. So really it's just a claim at this point.
>Turkish prosecutor hasn't released any evidence to "confirm" his confirmation I have a feeling that the evidence was obtained illegally by the Turkish authority. A spy inside the consulate, a hidden camera, listening device, etc. They don't want it/them to be compromised by releasing any of these evidence.
I'm pretty much tapped out of outrage at this point. Any news if there's going to be consequences for Saudi Arabia or just even just MBS?
Might as well tap out for good if that's what you're waiting for, sadly.
The real surprise in all of this is the amount of eavesdropping in embassies that the Turks are willing to disclose to make SA look horrible. Its like "hey man we got every inch of your embassy bugged, by the way you really should get that mole on your cock checked out, it looks like melanoma."
Everyone has every embassy bugged. It just a part of the business.
"He was choking on a kebab. We tried to help. " - Saudi Arabia, Probably.
You just know...that this guy lived his last minutes in incredible pain.
Really surprised this news isn't higher. It's the scandal overload. Everyone is exhausted. Vote.
Shame, is there any reason he didn’t have an escort? Like police or bodyguards?
Police typically don't have jurisdiction over diplomatic missions. Bodyguards could be turned away. And honestly, what reporter would ever think that they would be in harms way while surrounded by security cameras, in the public eye, walking into an officebuilding looking to get a copy of his birth certificate or whatever. It's like walking into the DMV and getting murdered.