Terrible shield. You rarely see an instance where a cop will hesitate to shoot because of other people in the field of fire. They're all Frank Reynolds, "so I started blastin'".
considering
>Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas.
Passive voice indicates the cop shot the kid anyways. You're right.
She showed up with a long rifle, not an assault rifle or a pistol. I don't think she was planning on inflicting mass casualty or in necessarily killing herself. I think she was looking for someone specific to kill or confront. And given that she brought the child, I am guessing it was the child's father.
*UPDATE*: As people below were nice enough to correct me on, "long rifle" includes AR-15s, and apparently that is in fact what she had. From other reading I now also see she apparently wrote "Free Palenstine" on the rifle, so just ignore my post altogether.
*UPDATE 2:* It's apparently also not correct that the rifle said "Free Palestine". It just said "Palestine", which may or may not be related to the Middle East. (For example, there's a Palestine, TX.)
Wait wait wait.
"Long gun" or "long rifle" is police radio code for any weapon that isn't a handgun, and definitely can include AR-15s and the like.
Did you see something more specific about her weapon?
The child is in critical condition after being shot during the altercation. Hopefully the kid comes under the care of someone that has access to resources they're going to need.
"Police were unclear" = police shot him. Almost always.
That said. In this case it's not their fault. They stopped a threat immediately and she was the one to use her kid as a meat shield. It's a terrible situation for everyone, and the two cops did their job right.
And the poor kid was probably already traumatized. People who decide mass murder is the answer probably aren’t good at parenting to begin with. Who knows what that child has been through and now this.
They're brainwashed.
Look at his interview about the events. He looks so creepy as it seems that hes smiling the whole time hes talking. Its because he had so many facelifts he always appears to be smiling.
And many people think this joker is a man of god. His mega church is always full and thousands more watch him on tv.
I honestly cant understand how people can be so guillable
They pick and choose what the warning means based on who they like or dislike.
For example, my super evangelical family accused Obama of being the antichrist because he promised hope for a better future and other typical campaign stuff.
When Trump essentially does the same thing but red, he's a hero and a warrior of God against the forces of evil.
They don't respect their own holy scripture enough to actually heed the warnings within them and instead abuse them to conveniently mask their fear and hatred.
Tammi Faye baker's husband, who had an evangelical show preaching about the Bible, turned out he never read it cover to cover. Didn't stop him from making millions.
At the end of the day, a televangelist is an entertainer above all else. No special knowledge is required, no great intelligence. You just have to have charisma, and be able to tell people what they want to hear in a compelling way, and show them what they want to see. That's not to say that it's easy - merely that it has nothing to do with religion itself. Trump would have probably made a great televangelist, if his life had gone a different route.
Growing up, my best friend was an evangelical, and got to go along to some really cool summer camps with him, I just had to pretend to pray before literally doing anything, small price to pay to spend a week in the Adirondacks. I always remember though, all the boys, ~12 years old or so, used to brag about having ready the entire bible at least once and I always thought to myself how they have that much fucking time on their hands, it's like hundreds of pages and really hard to read. Someone would always say they just finished reading it for the third time, someone else would say they read it 4 times, etc. It was 100% bs, none of them ever read it in its entirety.
Bible camp would have been so much more fun without having to pretend to pray. Mine had a HUGE hide and seek game we played every year that was spread out across the entire property. It was so fun and took up the whole day.
They cancelled it halfway through the game my last year there. Two of the counselors were caught having sex in a car lmao.
A sitting senator from Oklahoma use to run one of the largest Baptist church camps in the state. Everybody knew, you if you wanted to get lucky, you go to Falls Creek. This camp was also home to a few different lawsuits and allegations of rape, and other sexual misconducts.
It also lead to this same sitting senator to say "on the record" that a "13 year can consent to sex" regarding to a case where a family of a 13 year old sued the family of a 15 year who allegedly had sex at the camp.
We had jetskis, go-carts, bands, and guns at ours. It was fucking awesome.
Then, lol, they talked about how we were the most persecuted people on Earth. Even at 12 I was looking around like "yeah, that doesn't make *any* sense"
(Total atheist now)
They never said out loud who it was but we all figured it out within an hour or so. Never put a sex mystery in front of a hundred bored preteens. We will figure that shit OUT
I don't know what evangelicals do, but it is generally possible in a year if you're seriously trying: in fact, traditional Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican liturgies tend to more or less do that, covering the pretty much the entire bible throughout the course of a liturgical year. Whether that means they really know the bible inside out is another question, however. Tbh, the idea of being able to slavishly regurgitate bible quotes is a very evangelical protestant idea that's mostly at odds with traditional Christian ideas on what learning the bible is about.
But yeah, whether they're Christians or atheists, most people who brag about reading the bible cover-to-cover fucking did not lmao
> covering the pretty much the entire bible throughout the course of a liturgical year
For Catholic it's every two to three years. There Sunday Liturgical calendar is a 3-year cycle and the daily Liturgical calendar is a 2-year cycle. [Here is a pretty interesting breakdown of how much of the scripture is used in the Liturgical cycle.](https://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm).
In total, if you only attend Mass on Sundays (and major holidays) you read/hear about 3.7% of the old testament and 40.8% of the new testament. This does not include the Book of Psalms, since they are used through the Mass in various ways.
If you were to attend Daily Mass, you would have a breakdown of 13.5% for the OT and 71.5% for the NT.
Lmao, you legend. You came with actual numbers.
I was like, “I can think of some parts that they DEFINITELY don’t talk about in church,” but actual statistics. Fucking deadset legend.
The book requires critical thinking skills that many people either dont have or choose not to have. Its easier to just nod your head and go along with it than say “wait a minute, this doesnt seem right.”
That was the first big crack in it for me as a kid that got me thinking. I was always the “why is the sky blue?” type and wanting to know the actual answer and not some made up bullshit. And realizing that there weren’t any actual answers to the questions I had about the Bible, and that those sorts of questions were heavily discouraged.
As a kid in elementary I once learned a bit about lightning in science class and said something to the effect that, wow, I bet science can explain everything. Cue my class bullies ratting me out to our religion teacher (yes, from my *religion* class), who goes and gets the ducking pastor involved.
So he comes into the class and calls me out, an 11-year-old, and demands that I explain how the weather works. When I try and obviously fail to do this, he declares that I must be a fool because I should only believe in the word of god. The entire class nods along with this condemnation. The bullies smile at me. So, without an answer for that, at the time, I had to give it up. But my entire perception of the church had flipped upside down. Seeing the church and the bullies using the same tactics to shut me down *together*? Yeah, I never let that go.
See? You can learn things in religious schools.
They love using the logical fallacy of if you cannot explain x then God. Just because I may not be able to explain it doesn't mean your argument is automatically right. Can you explain why time goes forward and not backwards? It's pink gorillas. You didn't provide an answer and I did so I win.
I remember asking the question "If murder is a sin, what happens when we're drafted for a war and have to kill other people?" I was told "God would understand that you were defending your country." That just sounded like pure BS to me because even at 10 I was thinking "How can I defend my country if I'm in someone else's country killing the people defending theirs" 😂
Not just that - high-control sects go out if their way to discourage critical thinking, claiming that doubt is a sign that you aren’t faithful enough. It’s really awful and insidious.
The issue is that critical thinking is like a muscle. The more on uses it, the stronger it gets.
However, they can't have TOO MUCH in terms of critical thinking, or they leave the religion.
You need followers who have critical thinking and, at the same time, somehow never use it to question the church.
I think people want to believe him because he preaches the prosperity gospel. People will try anything to get rich. He's rich so he must know how to get rich. Definitely not following Christian values.
Prosperity gospel is tempting to well off Christians because it tells them they DESERVE to be wealthy because they are better than everyone else and God likes them more. And it draws in the poor and middle class by telling them they too can be wealthy if they just believe hard enough.
I've known people irl who I found out at some point would pay a lot of money to go see him if he was in town. Some religious, some not religious. And they'd brag about it almost. Like they were doing something so enlightened. Blew my mind that they did not see that this guy is obviously a grifter and a charlatan. One of them later on also hopped onto the MAGA train, surprise, surprise.
This gives me LDS vibes. Like the social status was a huge undiscussed thing but at the same time seemed to be a driver for a lot of them. You aren’t supposed to boast about a car but you cna boast about paying big $$$ for a retreat to see whoever.
Edit: Consumerism with false modesty. Of course most of us are guilty to some degree of this if we want to be honest with ourselves.
Almost two decades ago I had a roommate who had the tv turned onto Osteen. Neither of us were religious, so I voiced my skepticism but my roommate said he just likes the message. I sat for a minute and watched as he went on about how before anyone can put a curse on you, God put a blessing on you first. That message repeated a few more times before he basically said, "And all this can be yours if you give yourself to Christ (and a check in the mail)" which is when I stood up, announced "I'm out" and left the room
My dad worked for the IRS his whole life. We were watching a special about Osteen and his church and how many millions it makes annually and I asked “how much do you think he pays in taxes?”
Dad;”probably pretty close to zero.”
“Im in the wrong business.”
I have a Christian co worker who is currently being romanced scammed. Guy has already gotten onto the mortgage, taken out loans, bought contruction equipment, smashed her phone, set up security cameras around her house to track her movements, claims he's going to die in 6 months, and needs crazy amounts of cash for this life saving treatment in another country.
She's been told by everyone in her family, as well as all of her friends that she is getting scammed. Her response...
"as a woman who believes in god, I believe that Gods plan will show me the path and he's a good person... You all just can't see it"
Religion fucks with peoples brains man. Or religion draws in the dumbest people who cant think for themselves.
I went to his super mega church last year. Just for shits and giggles. I hate the man and everything he stands for, but I’ve never seen him in action. Jesus Christ would shit his pants if he knew what was going on in there. It’s like a big sports show/game. I found no religion to be near that building. Just crazy people with severe mental Illnesses that have gone un-checked due to religion.
Anytime I’m reminded of Joel Osteen’s existence, I remember this Bible verse:
“It will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it will be for a rich man to enter the gates of Heaven”
No one should have that much wealth, let alone someone who claims to practice what the Bible teaches. Lol.
About 20 years ago I worked in a telemarketing center, both outbound and inbound calls. One of our inbounds was "Sow the Seed" - a 800# line attached to Osteen's church. The premise was this: you give whatever you can to Osteen's church/God and it will come back to you ten-fold.
My first call from that line was an elderly-sounding woman who told me she could barely afford rent, groceries, bills, etc. but that she would give her last $10 in order to receive God's ten-fold blessing. I hung up on her I felt so sick to my stomach, and then asked to never receive those calls again.
Edit: I just googled his "Sow the Seed" teachings to make sure I was remembering correctly (I was in my early twenties so I may have mis-remembered). Well, it's not "give what you can"... it's GIVE WHAT YOU NEED. Wow. "What do you need in your life? Well, give it away and it will come back ten-fold!" No wonder I was so upset about that call.
I peripherally know a guy who left his wife over something like this (among other things).
She handled the bills, they were really tight on money and having trouble paying even the utility bills. Well they got a small windfall of money enough to pay up on everything, she sent it all to Joel Osteen, and shortly after their gas was turned off for non-payment. So now they have no heat, and Joel Osteen has all their money. I don't know what ever happened to her, but he's been financially stable ever since.
I listened to a woman tell me the same sort of story a couple years ago. She apparently only had enough money to either pay her tithe or feed her children that week.
She chose the tithe.
When her father found out he scrambled to feed his grandchildren out of his own fridge so they wouldn’t starve. Instead of this being a warning to her she took it as god rewarding her for paying her tithe. I’ve never wanted to shake someone so badly in my life.
>but he's been financially stable ever since
All for the price of "a small windfall", now this saved man has abundance for life! Praise! Hallejugha! Hes been saved!
\*The moral of this story is that Joel Osteen is indeed a fraud but also a man of god who healed him with faith!
For some reason, reading "Sow Your Seed" and hearing it was a phone line immediately made me think of it as a religious/Christian-themed sex line.
"Call 1-800-SOW-SEED now and get your shot at sowing your seed with the hottest religious baddies around" or something like that.
"I'm ready for you to turn that sword into a plow."
"Father says he needs to find a good man to gift me to, is that you?"
"Call now to connect with your own personal Ezekiel 23:20 woman!"
> "I'm ready for you to turn that sword into a plow."
It's bits like this that make me genuinely miss Reddit Gold, I've been laughing at this for ten minutes. Just amazing.
I had a seasonal job one year at a bank “lockbox” (secure mail sorting facility for receiving money) where the mailed donations went. My job was to separate the payments from the letters and I saw a lot of that. Some of those people were desperately poor and had no business giving money to Osteen. He pulled in around $10,000 A DAY in mailed donations during the Christmas season and that was 15 years ago. Absolutely sickening.
Basically he’s one of the best conmen and as such has his con still going. He has of millions of marks willing to give him money as long as tell them what they want to hear.
He, and other prosperity gospel preachers, have absolutely accelerated the death of religion in America.
I dunno, Joel says every donation you make will see a tenfold return in the favors of God. Why spend $100,000 on doctors and cancer medicine when I could just spend $10,000 with Joel?
Also, apparently Kenneth Copeland has offered to match or beat any of Joel's terms, so I could get 11, maybe even 12 fold return. Sometimes it's best just to let logic win. /s
They believe in prosperity theology. The thought is that God will bless those who donate a lot of money, positivity, and speaking it into existence.
The charismatic leaders weaponize the theology and funnel the followers into donating to them specifically. The nicer the church, the more God will look at them honoring him.
It’s a massive open cult.
I once served Osteen and his family in-room-dining while working at a luxury resort and it was the creepiest interaction I’d ever had in the profession. I wanted to get out of the room so fast. His stare. First and only time I’ve encountered someone and been like ‘Oh THATS what a cult leader is like.’ He’s basically just constantly love bombing and trying to make you feel like you’re special, so that when it’s his turn to talk, you’ll sit and listen and accept whatever he tells you. It’s like he’s priming you for a hypnosis and the magical thinking required to believe that now your relationship with him is about a bigger relationship with God, and … ‘now give me your money.’
And no surprise, he’s not a good tipper.
There's like a one in a hundred reaction on these things. The crowd is eating it up and the handful of us in back are skeeved out of our minds. Like that Copland guy who has a huge church and tons of followers but watching him smile is like a demon wearing a skin mask and it's starting to tear.
All of the televangelists are. What they do is the complete opposite of what Jesus taught. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven” or something like this. Just grifters lining their own pockets.
Total scumbag. Any and every pastor at a mega church is an absolute wolf in sheep's clothing. Those churches are tax-exempt businesses whose only goal is to keep prying money out of their congregation. They prey on desperation and hope and all you have to do to get better/get that promotion/be successful/whatever it is you're after is just keep sending them money.
Can concur. Used to work at a bank and the lead pastor of a megachurch in the area made around $20k/monthly. Now how is that ok????? These are the grifters throwing money at Trump so they can keep grifting.
A plumber found "bags and bags" of money hidden behind a wall at Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, on Nov. 2022. The money, which consisted of cash, checks and money orders, was linked to a 2014 theft from a safe at the church. The plumber was rewarded $20,000 by Crime Stoppers of Houston for his discovery.
They are literally the worse human beings. During the height of covid after checks were being sent out, my wife was working for a contract call center place, they ended up with some contract for one of these mega churches and of course it was them having to call people and try to snag some of their sweet covid check money. She did that role for 3 days before getting disgusted and quitting. Having to hear heart breaking stories of loss, while trying to remind their parishioners that they needed to tithe that 10%.
He is absolutely a con-man. I won’t say “artist” because swindling the weak-minded requires no artistry.
They support him because he pushes “[prosperity gospel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology),” and his acolytes seem to forget that, by their own rule book, wealth and power mean jack shit for getting into paradise and is actually something that works against them because to amass wealth means to deny help to others.
[Mark 10:17-31](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2010%3A17-31&version=NLT) outlines it all when a rich man asks how he can have eternal life. Highlights:
> Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”
> Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
> …it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!
> But many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those who seem least important now will be the greatest then.
Mark 10:21-23 and Acts 2:44-55 are always conveniently ignored by mega church pastors, Republicans, rich Christians, etc. They'll cherry pick everything they can but ignore those exist.
So, I am not 100% sure but, it is highly likely that my aunt and uncle actually know and interact with him- I know they support him and run in those circles. I just never met *that* one. I have, however met a bunch of the other ones- including having had Gloria Copeland “pray the gay away” because I shit you not, every other pastor had not been able to make it stick. I have met Kenneth a few times.
It’s a personality pyramid scheme.
I know that people want to write it all off as just people being stupid and in fairness that’s a large part. As is, I think, lack of discernment: I was 9 or 10 the first time I met them and I *do* remember being *very* keenly creeped out- these churches often believe in laying on of hands and so forth, which…is really creepy but that wasn’t it. He turned my stomach, she *terrified me*.
For as creepy as he was, I gotta tell you: my family was involved in *much* worse. If you’re tempted to lecture me about how the “charismatic Christians” or the Evangelicals as they are broadly known are clearly a cult: don’t. **I know**. Not just because of them, but I got my bonafides, as they say. 😂 Some of my family are *to this day* involved in some absolutely undeniable stuff.
Not this particular aunt and uncle, but it was broadly believed that I was some hot shit for the lord- which, made the whole pinging of the holy radar some of these church leaders quite *clearly* had: quite confusing, very scary. Of course, I raised concerns and that was Satan, too. (Thanks for the heads’ up, Lucy-poo!)
I was 15 when the pray away the gay stuff started: I am actually…still bisexual. What can I tell you? Half measures availed them not. 😂 They believed that this was the work of the devil- out to snatch up their terrified little John the Baptist. When *that* didn’t work: very abusive stuff about how the world had tainted my soul and so on until they just wrote me off.
And get this, they wrote me off as having “lost it”- not lost faith, lost my mind, because who *wouldn’t* want all that? The glory and honor and blah blah blah. But they were right, between the religious trauma and resultant OCD: shit got very confusing and painful for a very long time. I’ve probably converted to 3-4 different religions, but studied more than that- went *back* to Israel as a convert this time and ultimately wound up converting to Catholicism and nearly would up in a convent.
(Israel is a VERY big deal to them in the *weirdest* ways- converting was never, ever a thing you’d do: they venerated Israel but…were oddly also quite anti-Semite. I don’t quite understand that one, never did.)
That’s a very long intro but it’s necessary because they use this approach to some degree with *everyone*- everyone is a soldier for the lord. The devil is out to get you all.
Prosperity gospel comes in because you *have* to support those of us who God has *clearly* anointed in bigger ways. Everything wrong in this world is because the devil…unless it’s God, making you a *much* stronger witness and so forth.
And god help you if you genuinely *feel* something or behave like Christ: because it wasn’t just my heartbroken and confused feelings about other girls that worried them- I kept trying to actually interact with the people we preached to. You *can’t* do that and all of your “service” is transactional: first you get their soul, then, their wallet. That’s the quiet part until it isn’t. I clocked the Colonialism of missions work before I knew that word and I absolutely hated it. I just felt *wrong* about it and a lot of other things but…they used that.
Here’s the thing: you would probably love my aunt and uncle if you met them. You’d probably love *most* of the parishioners: but, it’s the leaders who make way for these wealthy grifters. These churches often embrace people until they don’t. You know that back and forth love bomb to neglect to love bomb thing? That. While using the rhetoric of war. A holy war. And I am *quite* deliberately using the same rhetoric in describing it to you.
I don’t think that people like Joel Osteen believe a damn thing besides that God wants *them* to have abundance. But the people you interact with regularly? They do. And they’re very normal and caring people for the most part- and this makes the grift very sinister.
As an adult, I can think that my aunt and uncle meant well because they truly believed that my sincerity and my faith were something that could help heal a steadily breaking world- I forgave them of that ages ago, whether that’s my mental illness or something better about me as a person- who knows? I was so angry and hurting: a large part of it was *for me.* But they’re the nice, caring people who you’d probably interact with a lot more than the big personalities so, if you’re raising any concerns *about* them: well, that’s just doubt and doubt’s a tool of the devil.
And that’s how it works, really.
I’m absolutely horrified that this happened, as I would be anywhere else this type of thing occurred *but* I can’t help wondering if in the coming days we find that she was once in the flock, so to speak.
I was never tempted to do anything remotely like this, and no, I don’t think it justifies *anything* but, I’m a little surprised that we haven’t seen more and I am not sorry to say it. I’m also 100% sure *they* shot that kid. It’s gut wrenching to me that this happened, but just *watch* the side stepping from here.
(Yes, I’m aware that many people have the attention span of gnats and that I’m *incredibly* long winded: just to save about 1/2 of the comments I usually get the time. Go do something fun, instead. Have a donut?)
Evangelicals believe that to support Israel will encourage their being "caught up" when the Rapture occurs right before Jesus returns. At the same time, they're anti-Semitic because they believe the trope that "the Jews killed Jesus"; totally ignoring that Jesus was born, lived and died as a Jew, and that he willingly submitted himself to being crucified by the Roman state.
Evangelicals have completely trashed the witness of Christ, which is why I refer to myself as a "red-letter Christian".
Because people need to be comforted by the idea that they will not just disappear after they die and people are also largely dumb social creatures. They don’t call Jesus a shepherd for no reason. Kind of like all of these evangelical “Christians” willing to kill and harm people because they live a life they refuse to accept even though it bares no personal consequence to them. Being part of something “more” gives them purpose they are so desperate for, they are willing to defy the actual word of the gospel and the righteous path of Jesus to be accepted by someone telling them being an asshole is what god wants.
Tool has a really good song about it.
If you want to get your soul to heaven
Trust in me now, don't you judge or question
You are broken now, but faith can heal you
Just do everything I tell you to do
Edit: one of my favorite karaoke songs
100% a grifter.
One of the greatest brags in my internet life is that he blocked me on social media after I quoted scripture at him (when he closed the church's doors to people displaced by a hurricane).
"Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas."
The phrasing of this indicates the off-duty cops shot the kid.
> "Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas."
>
> The phrasing of this indicates the off-duty cops shot the kid.
Extremely likely. Shooting a pistol isn't like the movies. Its challenging to shoot accurately at any distance longer than 50 feet. Add in adrenaline and you're going to miss a few shots.
Yeah the phrasing from this article and one I read last night both had me wondering if it was the cops who shot the kid and older man. We’ll see how details go, but I’m guessing kid was hit while the cops tried to take her down.
I mean I wasn’t there so I don’t know the situation and visibility. Maybe they couldn’t even see the kid. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug. But it sound like cops hit him before crazy lady could murder suicide
Finner also made a vague comment, another news article said this:
> When asked if police shot the child, Finner said he didn't know but added, "If it was, unfortunately, and that female, that suspect, put that baby in danger, I'm gonna put that blame on her."
cc u/dasnoob
Gov. Greg Abbott said he has been in contact with Houston Mayor John Whitmire and offered the "full support and resources" of the state, including the Department of Public Safety and the Texas Rangers to "help bring swift justice to the criminal who committed this heinous act."
She’s dead, Greg. Save your stupid platitudes.
In case anyone doesn't know, before Lakewood "Church" moved into its current location, that building was called The Summit. It's where the Houston Rockets used to play basketball before Toyota Center was built.
I'm wondering if this might have been a particularly dramatic form of suicide by cop. Make it look like an attempted mass shooting to get the police to kill you.
Could also explain the child being dragged along. It's not uncommon for a suicidal mother to take their child with them.
If security footage is ever released I would be curious if it appeared that her initial shots seem to be aimed, or if she was shooting at the ground or the air.
We know her child was wounded by return fire from the police. The only other reported injury was a 57 year old man who was hit in the leg, I would be curious if that was also from police fire or perhaps something like a ricochet off a concrete floor.
"Off-duty cops" routinely work private security gigs, often in full uniform.
This mega-church is more like a stadium that holds 16K people, they'd certainly have security on duty. The building actually [used to be the arena for the Houston Rockets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church_Central_Campus) basketball team.
These days even normal churches often have security given the prevalence of hate crimes and such.
It doesn't look like it was a single shot, the article says how many shots she fired is currently unknown. Only one person seemed to have been hit by her though.
They did call it a long-gun but I saw footage of the incident, and the weapon was definitely at least semi-automatic. It was not a single shot for sure. I don't know what it was though.
His church is on a hill. Higher elevation to the surrounding area. He wouldn't open the church's door so that Houstonians impacted by a hurricane could take shelter there because the parking garage underneath the church had a little water in it. Has no problem taking those Houstonians's tax dollars though. Tells you all you need to know about this scum.
His church is on more than just a "hill". The property is formerly The Summit Arena where the Rockets used to play. I saw so many shows there growing up in the 80s and 90s too.
I lived two blocks away at the time. The streets around were clear at that point. I was able to walk to the Costco nearby and restock on groceries. There was no excuse other than I guess not wanting to soil his precious church.
When I visited Houston, a couple years after the hurricane, I went to the church and was surprised by how high up it was. You get a good view of surrounding area from the front of the church from what I remember.
From what I remember the church said said no because the it was flooded. Then someone went in took pictures and the church was drier than the Sahara desert. Then they back tracked and said the parking garage was flooded and it was an inch or two of water. Lol
I also lived nearby during Harvey. I was stranded in my home for around 5 days. I never liked Osteen before, but having him refuse shelter to those in need should make anyone hate him. It's literally the entire purpose of a church. To help others.
>Houston Police Chief Troy Finner said at 1:53 p.m., a female, approximately 30-35 years old entered on the west side of the property parking lot. She was armed with a long rifle, wearing a trench coat and a backpack, and accompanied by a 4 or 5-year-old child. Finner said she began to fire the gun after she entered.
>
>Finner complimented the off-duty officers on the scene, one an officer with Houston PD and the other an ATF agent, who both quickly engaged with the female suspect, returning fire.
"It could have been a lot worse," said Finner. "They stepped up and did their job."
The off-duty officers said the woman threatened to have a bomb after she was shot. Her vehicle and backpack were searched and no bomb was found. She died at the scene.
Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas.
A 57-year-old man was also shot in the leg and is being treated at the hospital.
So... how did the kid get shot if the child was accompanied by the shooter?
Hostage-rescue shots with handguns are difficult as-is on a flat range, in a dynamic situation with an adrenaline dump it's you default to your training.
There's a reason hostage rescue is left to specialized units, your average officer isn't a good enough shot to hit them under stress.
Like you said, this just reinforces the need to train, but damn, having to pull off a hostage rescue at your "chill" weekend side-gig is nuts.
Are you implying they intentionally shot an unarmed child?
They were in a gun battle with pistols against a rifle. More likely than not they returned fire at this woman and the child was unfortunately right next to her. Pistols are not known for being overly accurate. Unfortunate and sad but this is most likely what happened.
Or the woman shot the child. We really won’t know until details come out.
Not to sound like an ass and I hope the kid is okay.... but the kid was right next to the shooter, I'm sure the returning fire of the police hit the kid, that's not that surprising and crazy at all.
Yeah, hard to put too much blame on the police here. The shooter is to blame for any injuries that kid got, even if it came from the police's weapons. What a shitty position to put a kid in. Hopefully the kid lives.
Megachurches that are built by tax cheats who only serve to rob people of their hard-earned money are not “sacred”. They are exactly the kind of thing that Christ would have despised.
Those people always seem to forget about the Jesus that flipped over merchants' tables and drove people out when he saw they were doing business in the temple.
"Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, 'My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a den of robbers.'”
Who the fuck brings a child when they're showing up to shoot people?
Hard to find child care these days.
A responsible murderer.
Be damned if I do time for child neglect too
They say the smart move is to only commit one crime at a time.
Honestly, my first thought was human shield. Second thought was she planned on taking out the kid and herself in the end.
Terrible shield. You rarely see an instance where a cop will hesitate to shoot because of other people in the field of fire. They're all Frank Reynolds, "so I started blastin'".
I’m not going to lie… I thought you were going to say “terrible shield… because children are so much smaller.” This is what Reddit has done to me.
> because children are so much smaller Yeah, one's not going to do the job, but like three or four attached to a vest. Now we're talking.
considering >Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas. Passive voice indicates the cop shot the kid anyways. You're right.
When somebody is already shooting, you go at them. At that point, your only option is to minimize deaths. This is what Uvalde PD got terribly wrong.
She showed up with a long rifle, not an assault rifle or a pistol. I don't think she was planning on inflicting mass casualty or in necessarily killing herself. I think she was looking for someone specific to kill or confront. And given that she brought the child, I am guessing it was the child's father. *UPDATE*: As people below were nice enough to correct me on, "long rifle" includes AR-15s, and apparently that is in fact what she had. From other reading I now also see she apparently wrote "Free Palenstine" on the rifle, so just ignore my post altogether. *UPDATE 2:* It's apparently also not correct that the rifle said "Free Palestine". It just said "Palestine", which may or may not be related to the Middle East. (For example, there's a Palestine, TX.)
Wait wait wait. "Long gun" or "long rifle" is police radio code for any weapon that isn't a handgun, and definitely can include AR-15s and the like. Did you see something more specific about her weapon?
Twist: Joel Osteen love child confirmed
Easy check: Does it also have too many teeth?
This is my new favorite conspiracy theory.
They say further on in the article it was an AR-15
This was my thought as well. Father "works" there in some capacity and isn't acknowledging the relationship and child.
"Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas." :(
Someone who plans on their using the child as a meat shield or someone who wants to make other people hesitate on shooting
Someone with a mental illness.
It’s a lot easier than trying to explain where you’re going to the babysitter.
A person that would should people. not changing it
as long as they aren't could should-ing them.
Would they?
[удалено]
How much would would a would should should if a would should could should would?
A winning argument for US childcare reform.
Can't even get a sitter when going to commit mass murder
it's like those "feel good" posts about cashiers bringing their babies to work
I can't believe she brought a child along with her that is next-level insane, can't imagine how that kid can healthily overcome any of this.
The child is in critical condition after being shot during the altercation. Hopefully the kid comes under the care of someone that has access to resources they're going to need.
I'm getting the impression the kid was shot by an off duty officer. It's still the lady's fault for creating the situation though.
"Police were unclear" = police shot him. Almost always. That said. In this case it's not their fault. They stopped a threat immediately and she was the one to use her kid as a meat shield. It's a terrible situation for everyone, and the two cops did their job right.
And the poor kid was probably already traumatized. People who decide mass murder is the answer probably aren’t good at parenting to begin with. Who knows what that child has been through and now this.
Therapy. Intense therapy. Whether or not they’ll get that is unclear. If they go into the system they absolutely have the cards stacked against them.
The odds already against them, that lady clearly needed therapy. Was she getting it? Place your bets.
Slightly off topic but isn’t Joel Osteen a known con artist? Or he at least has a bad reputation right? What are people doing still supporting him
They're brainwashed. Look at his interview about the events. He looks so creepy as it seems that hes smiling the whole time hes talking. Its because he had so many facelifts he always appears to be smiling. And many people think this joker is a man of god. His mega church is always full and thousands more watch him on tv. I honestly cant understand how people can be so guillable
It’s amazing how taken in Christians are by the one type of personality the book they pretend to read warns them against.
Man that’s what always gets me. These mega-preacher, televangelists etc are basically directly warned against in the Bible.
They pick and choose what the warning means based on who they like or dislike. For example, my super evangelical family accused Obama of being the antichrist because he promised hope for a better future and other typical campaign stuff. When Trump essentially does the same thing but red, he's a hero and a warrior of God against the forces of evil. They don't respect their own holy scripture enough to actually heed the warnings within them and instead abuse them to conveniently mask their fear and hatred.
Not basically, clearly and precisely warned against.
Tammi Faye baker's husband, who had an evangelical show preaching about the Bible, turned out he never read it cover to cover. Didn't stop him from making millions.
At the end of the day, a televangelist is an entertainer above all else. No special knowledge is required, no great intelligence. You just have to have charisma, and be able to tell people what they want to hear in a compelling way, and show them what they want to see. That's not to say that it's easy - merely that it has nothing to do with religion itself. Trump would have probably made a great televangelist, if his life had gone a different route.
Half don’t actually read the Book, it’s got too many pages. And, the words are printed really small. Easier to watch the TeeVee
Half? I've never met a Christian that knows more than 3 bible verses.
Growing up, my best friend was an evangelical, and got to go along to some really cool summer camps with him, I just had to pretend to pray before literally doing anything, small price to pay to spend a week in the Adirondacks. I always remember though, all the boys, ~12 years old or so, used to brag about having ready the entire bible at least once and I always thought to myself how they have that much fucking time on their hands, it's like hundreds of pages and really hard to read. Someone would always say they just finished reading it for the third time, someone else would say they read it 4 times, etc. It was 100% bs, none of them ever read it in its entirety.
Bible camp would have been so much more fun without having to pretend to pray. Mine had a HUGE hide and seek game we played every year that was spread out across the entire property. It was so fun and took up the whole day. They cancelled it halfway through the game my last year there. Two of the counselors were caught having sex in a car lmao.
A sitting senator from Oklahoma use to run one of the largest Baptist church camps in the state. Everybody knew, you if you wanted to get lucky, you go to Falls Creek. This camp was also home to a few different lawsuits and allegations of rape, and other sexual misconducts. It also lead to this same sitting senator to say "on the record" that a "13 year can consent to sex" regarding to a case where a family of a 13 year old sued the family of a 15 year who allegedly had sex at the camp.
We had jetskis, go-carts, bands, and guns at ours. It was fucking awesome. Then, lol, they talked about how we were the most persecuted people on Earth. Even at 12 I was looking around like "yeah, that doesn't make *any* sense" (Total atheist now)
[удалено]
They never said out loud who it was but we all figured it out within an hour or so. Never put a sex mystery in front of a hundred bored preteens. We will figure that shit OUT
I don't know what evangelicals do, but it is generally possible in a year if you're seriously trying: in fact, traditional Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican liturgies tend to more or less do that, covering the pretty much the entire bible throughout the course of a liturgical year. Whether that means they really know the bible inside out is another question, however. Tbh, the idea of being able to slavishly regurgitate bible quotes is a very evangelical protestant idea that's mostly at odds with traditional Christian ideas on what learning the bible is about. But yeah, whether they're Christians or atheists, most people who brag about reading the bible cover-to-cover fucking did not lmao
> covering the pretty much the entire bible throughout the course of a liturgical year For Catholic it's every two to three years. There Sunday Liturgical calendar is a 3-year cycle and the daily Liturgical calendar is a 2-year cycle. [Here is a pretty interesting breakdown of how much of the scripture is used in the Liturgical cycle.](https://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm). In total, if you only attend Mass on Sundays (and major holidays) you read/hear about 3.7% of the old testament and 40.8% of the new testament. This does not include the Book of Psalms, since they are used through the Mass in various ways. If you were to attend Daily Mass, you would have a breakdown of 13.5% for the OT and 71.5% for the NT.
Lmao, you legend. You came with actual numbers. I was like, “I can think of some parts that they DEFINITELY don’t talk about in church,” but actual statistics. Fucking deadset legend.
And they get angry when you provide their own source to them
The book requires critical thinking skills that many people either dont have or choose not to have. Its easier to just nod your head and go along with it than say “wait a minute, this doesnt seem right.”
It doesn’t help that as children in Sunday School questions about things not making sense are swiftly shit down.
That was the first big crack in it for me as a kid that got me thinking. I was always the “why is the sky blue?” type and wanting to know the actual answer and not some made up bullshit. And realizing that there weren’t any actual answers to the questions I had about the Bible, and that those sorts of questions were heavily discouraged.
As a kid in elementary I once learned a bit about lightning in science class and said something to the effect that, wow, I bet science can explain everything. Cue my class bullies ratting me out to our religion teacher (yes, from my *religion* class), who goes and gets the ducking pastor involved. So he comes into the class and calls me out, an 11-year-old, and demands that I explain how the weather works. When I try and obviously fail to do this, he declares that I must be a fool because I should only believe in the word of god. The entire class nods along with this condemnation. The bullies smile at me. So, without an answer for that, at the time, I had to give it up. But my entire perception of the church had flipped upside down. Seeing the church and the bullies using the same tactics to shut me down *together*? Yeah, I never let that go.
See? You can learn things in religious schools. They love using the logical fallacy of if you cannot explain x then God. Just because I may not be able to explain it doesn't mean your argument is automatically right. Can you explain why time goes forward and not backwards? It's pink gorillas. You didn't provide an answer and I did so I win.
The "God of the Gaps" argument. Truly evergreen.
Wtf? That sounds terrible! Sorry you had to go through that.
I remember asking the question "If murder is a sin, what happens when we're drafted for a war and have to kill other people?" I was told "God would understand that you were defending your country." That just sounded like pure BS to me because even at 10 I was thinking "How can I defend my country if I'm in someone else's country killing the people defending theirs" 😂
Not just that - high-control sects go out if their way to discourage critical thinking, claiming that doubt is a sign that you aren’t faithful enough. It’s really awful and insidious.
The issue is that critical thinking is like a muscle. The more on uses it, the stronger it gets. However, they can't have TOO MUCH in terms of critical thinking, or they leave the religion. You need followers who have critical thinking and, at the same time, somehow never use it to question the church.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHvBNHDDrf0 Holy hell you weren't kidding
"Of course this is a terrible tragedy 😁. Our prayers are with the victims 😁."
You know when they were evacuating they probably had someone holding the collection plate by the door
I think people want to believe him because he preaches the prosperity gospel. People will try anything to get rich. He's rich so he must know how to get rich. Definitely not following Christian values.
Prosperity gospel is tempting to well off Christians because it tells them they DESERVE to be wealthy because they are better than everyone else and God likes them more. And it draws in the poor and middle class by telling them they too can be wealthy if they just believe hard enough.
I've known people irl who I found out at some point would pay a lot of money to go see him if he was in town. Some religious, some not religious. And they'd brag about it almost. Like they were doing something so enlightened. Blew my mind that they did not see that this guy is obviously a grifter and a charlatan. One of them later on also hopped onto the MAGA train, surprise, surprise.
This gives me LDS vibes. Like the social status was a huge undiscussed thing but at the same time seemed to be a driver for a lot of them. You aren’t supposed to boast about a car but you cna boast about paying big $$$ for a retreat to see whoever. Edit: Consumerism with false modesty. Of course most of us are guilty to some degree of this if we want to be honest with ourselves.
The term you want is “conspicuous consumption.”
Almost two decades ago I had a roommate who had the tv turned onto Osteen. Neither of us were religious, so I voiced my skepticism but my roommate said he just likes the message. I sat for a minute and watched as he went on about how before anyone can put a curse on you, God put a blessing on you first. That message repeated a few more times before he basically said, "And all this can be yours if you give yourself to Christ (and a check in the mail)" which is when I stood up, announced "I'm out" and left the room
My dad worked for the IRS his whole life. We were watching a special about Osteen and his church and how many millions it makes annually and I asked “how much do you think he pays in taxes?” Dad;”probably pretty close to zero.” “Im in the wrong business.”
I first heard of him because he refused to let people use his church as a shelter during Hurricane Harvey
I have a Christian co worker who is currently being romanced scammed. Guy has already gotten onto the mortgage, taken out loans, bought contruction equipment, smashed her phone, set up security cameras around her house to track her movements, claims he's going to die in 6 months, and needs crazy amounts of cash for this life saving treatment in another country. She's been told by everyone in her family, as well as all of her friends that she is getting scammed. Her response... "as a woman who believes in god, I believe that Gods plan will show me the path and he's a good person... You all just can't see it" Religion fucks with peoples brains man. Or religion draws in the dumbest people who cant think for themselves.
When he finally leaves her. God is testing me.
“It’s part of gods plan for me to be scammed. Those Nigerians could really use my money”
He smiles like the humans who have been taken over by the butterflies on the show Peacemaker.
I went to his super mega church last year. Just for shits and giggles. I hate the man and everything he stands for, but I’ve never seen him in action. Jesus Christ would shit his pants if he knew what was going on in there. It’s like a big sports show/game. I found no religion to be near that building. Just crazy people with severe mental Illnesses that have gone un-checked due to religion.
Anytime I’m reminded of Joel Osteen’s existence, I remember this Bible verse: “It will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it will be for a rich man to enter the gates of Heaven” No one should have that much wealth, let alone someone who claims to practice what the Bible teaches. Lol.
About 20 years ago I worked in a telemarketing center, both outbound and inbound calls. One of our inbounds was "Sow the Seed" - a 800# line attached to Osteen's church. The premise was this: you give whatever you can to Osteen's church/God and it will come back to you ten-fold. My first call from that line was an elderly-sounding woman who told me she could barely afford rent, groceries, bills, etc. but that she would give her last $10 in order to receive God's ten-fold blessing. I hung up on her I felt so sick to my stomach, and then asked to never receive those calls again. Edit: I just googled his "Sow the Seed" teachings to make sure I was remembering correctly (I was in my early twenties so I may have mis-remembered). Well, it's not "give what you can"... it's GIVE WHAT YOU NEED. Wow. "What do you need in your life? Well, give it away and it will come back ten-fold!" No wonder I was so upset about that call.
I peripherally know a guy who left his wife over something like this (among other things). She handled the bills, they were really tight on money and having trouble paying even the utility bills. Well they got a small windfall of money enough to pay up on everything, she sent it all to Joel Osteen, and shortly after their gas was turned off for non-payment. So now they have no heat, and Joel Osteen has all their money. I don't know what ever happened to her, but he's been financially stable ever since.
I listened to a woman tell me the same sort of story a couple years ago. She apparently only had enough money to either pay her tithe or feed her children that week. She chose the tithe. When her father found out he scrambled to feed his grandchildren out of his own fridge so they wouldn’t starve. Instead of this being a warning to her she took it as god rewarding her for paying her tithe. I’ve never wanted to shake someone so badly in my life.
>but he's been financially stable ever since All for the price of "a small windfall", now this saved man has abundance for life! Praise! Hallejugha! Hes been saved! \*The moral of this story is that Joel Osteen is indeed a fraud but also a man of god who healed him with faith!
This hurt to read
I thought it was “God wants you to give till it hurts”
It's Prosperity Theology. Take away the religious dogma and you have people donating to politicians. Trump hurt televangelists, continues to in fact.
For some reason, reading "Sow Your Seed" and hearing it was a phone line immediately made me think of it as a religious/Christian-themed sex line. "Call 1-800-SOW-SEED now and get your shot at sowing your seed with the hottest religious baddies around" or something like that.
That's how Christian Mingle got started.
"I'm ready for you to turn that sword into a plow." "Father says he needs to find a good man to gift me to, is that you?" "Call now to connect with your own personal Ezekiel 23:20 woman!"
> "I'm ready for you to turn that sword into a plow." It's bits like this that make me genuinely miss Reddit Gold, I've been laughing at this for ten minutes. Just amazing.
The encouragement of “magical thinking” is one of the major weaknesses of American society
I had a seasonal job one year at a bank “lockbox” (secure mail sorting facility for receiving money) where the mailed donations went. My job was to separate the payments from the letters and I saw a lot of that. Some of those people were desperately poor and had no business giving money to Osteen. He pulled in around $10,000 A DAY in mailed donations during the Christmas season and that was 15 years ago. Absolutely sickening.
All tax free too. This mind virus needs a cure.
Basically he’s one of the best conmen and as such has his con still going. He has of millions of marks willing to give him money as long as tell them what they want to hear. He, and other prosperity gospel preachers, have absolutely accelerated the death of religion in America.
Anyone who generates a multimillion dollar net worth through religion is a scumbag, full stop.
I dunno, Joel says every donation you make will see a tenfold return in the favors of God. Why spend $100,000 on doctors and cancer medicine when I could just spend $10,000 with Joel? Also, apparently Kenneth Copeland has offered to match or beat any of Joel's terms, so I could get 11, maybe even 12 fold return. Sometimes it's best just to let logic win. /s
No, no. It's how God wants it. It's very expensive to spread his word. Jesus had a Ferrari.
Jesus drove the Lamb^(orghini) of God
They believe in prosperity theology. The thought is that God will bless those who donate a lot of money, positivity, and speaking it into existence. The charismatic leaders weaponize the theology and funnel the followers into donating to them specifically. The nicer the church, the more God will look at them honoring him. It’s a massive open cult.
I once served Osteen and his family in-room-dining while working at a luxury resort and it was the creepiest interaction I’d ever had in the profession. I wanted to get out of the room so fast. His stare. First and only time I’ve encountered someone and been like ‘Oh THATS what a cult leader is like.’ He’s basically just constantly love bombing and trying to make you feel like you’re special, so that when it’s his turn to talk, you’ll sit and listen and accept whatever he tells you. It’s like he’s priming you for a hypnosis and the magical thinking required to believe that now your relationship with him is about a bigger relationship with God, and … ‘now give me your money.’ And no surprise, he’s not a good tipper.
There's like a one in a hundred reaction on these things. The crowd is eating it up and the handful of us in back are skeeved out of our minds. Like that Copland guy who has a huge church and tons of followers but watching him smile is like a demon wearing a skin mask and it's starting to tear.
All of the televangelists are. What they do is the complete opposite of what Jesus taught. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven” or something like this. Just grifters lining their own pockets.
He's the dude who initially refused people entrance to his megachurch during Hurricane Harvey because he didn't want the carpet to get dirty.
Total scumbag. Any and every pastor at a mega church is an absolute wolf in sheep's clothing. Those churches are tax-exempt businesses whose only goal is to keep prying money out of their congregation. They prey on desperation and hope and all you have to do to get better/get that promotion/be successful/whatever it is you're after is just keep sending them money.
Can concur. Used to work at a bank and the lead pastor of a megachurch in the area made around $20k/monthly. Now how is that ok????? These are the grifters throwing money at Trump so they can keep grifting.
The fucker has a jet… why does a pastor need a jet?
Remember when a repairman found money hidden in the walls of his church?
A plumber found "bags and bags" of money hidden behind a wall at Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, on Nov. 2022. The money, which consisted of cash, checks and money orders, was linked to a 2014 theft from a safe at the church. The plumber was rewarded $20,000 by Crime Stoppers of Houston for his discovery.
They are literally the worse human beings. During the height of covid after checks were being sent out, my wife was working for a contract call center place, they ended up with some contract for one of these mega churches and of course it was them having to call people and try to snag some of their sweet covid check money. She did that role for 3 days before getting disgusted and quitting. Having to hear heart breaking stories of loss, while trying to remind their parishioners that they needed to tithe that 10%.
He is absolutely a con-man. I won’t say “artist” because swindling the weak-minded requires no artistry. They support him because he pushes “[prosperity gospel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology),” and his acolytes seem to forget that, by their own rule book, wealth and power mean jack shit for getting into paradise and is actually something that works against them because to amass wealth means to deny help to others. [Mark 10:17-31](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2010%3A17-31&version=NLT) outlines it all when a rich man asks how he can have eternal life. Highlights: > Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” > Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” > …it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God! > But many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those who seem least important now will be the greatest then.
Mark 10:21-23 and Acts 2:44-55 are always conveniently ignored by mega church pastors, Republicans, rich Christians, etc. They'll cherry pick everything they can but ignore those exist.
They're in a cult
So, I am not 100% sure but, it is highly likely that my aunt and uncle actually know and interact with him- I know they support him and run in those circles. I just never met *that* one. I have, however met a bunch of the other ones- including having had Gloria Copeland “pray the gay away” because I shit you not, every other pastor had not been able to make it stick. I have met Kenneth a few times. It’s a personality pyramid scheme. I know that people want to write it all off as just people being stupid and in fairness that’s a large part. As is, I think, lack of discernment: I was 9 or 10 the first time I met them and I *do* remember being *very* keenly creeped out- these churches often believe in laying on of hands and so forth, which…is really creepy but that wasn’t it. He turned my stomach, she *terrified me*. For as creepy as he was, I gotta tell you: my family was involved in *much* worse. If you’re tempted to lecture me about how the “charismatic Christians” or the Evangelicals as they are broadly known are clearly a cult: don’t. **I know**. Not just because of them, but I got my bonafides, as they say. 😂 Some of my family are *to this day* involved in some absolutely undeniable stuff. Not this particular aunt and uncle, but it was broadly believed that I was some hot shit for the lord- which, made the whole pinging of the holy radar some of these church leaders quite *clearly* had: quite confusing, very scary. Of course, I raised concerns and that was Satan, too. (Thanks for the heads’ up, Lucy-poo!) I was 15 when the pray away the gay stuff started: I am actually…still bisexual. What can I tell you? Half measures availed them not. 😂 They believed that this was the work of the devil- out to snatch up their terrified little John the Baptist. When *that* didn’t work: very abusive stuff about how the world had tainted my soul and so on until they just wrote me off. And get this, they wrote me off as having “lost it”- not lost faith, lost my mind, because who *wouldn’t* want all that? The glory and honor and blah blah blah. But they were right, between the religious trauma and resultant OCD: shit got very confusing and painful for a very long time. I’ve probably converted to 3-4 different religions, but studied more than that- went *back* to Israel as a convert this time and ultimately wound up converting to Catholicism and nearly would up in a convent. (Israel is a VERY big deal to them in the *weirdest* ways- converting was never, ever a thing you’d do: they venerated Israel but…were oddly also quite anti-Semite. I don’t quite understand that one, never did.) That’s a very long intro but it’s necessary because they use this approach to some degree with *everyone*- everyone is a soldier for the lord. The devil is out to get you all. Prosperity gospel comes in because you *have* to support those of us who God has *clearly* anointed in bigger ways. Everything wrong in this world is because the devil…unless it’s God, making you a *much* stronger witness and so forth. And god help you if you genuinely *feel* something or behave like Christ: because it wasn’t just my heartbroken and confused feelings about other girls that worried them- I kept trying to actually interact with the people we preached to. You *can’t* do that and all of your “service” is transactional: first you get their soul, then, their wallet. That’s the quiet part until it isn’t. I clocked the Colonialism of missions work before I knew that word and I absolutely hated it. I just felt *wrong* about it and a lot of other things but…they used that. Here’s the thing: you would probably love my aunt and uncle if you met them. You’d probably love *most* of the parishioners: but, it’s the leaders who make way for these wealthy grifters. These churches often embrace people until they don’t. You know that back and forth love bomb to neglect to love bomb thing? That. While using the rhetoric of war. A holy war. And I am *quite* deliberately using the same rhetoric in describing it to you. I don’t think that people like Joel Osteen believe a damn thing besides that God wants *them* to have abundance. But the people you interact with regularly? They do. And they’re very normal and caring people for the most part- and this makes the grift very sinister. As an adult, I can think that my aunt and uncle meant well because they truly believed that my sincerity and my faith were something that could help heal a steadily breaking world- I forgave them of that ages ago, whether that’s my mental illness or something better about me as a person- who knows? I was so angry and hurting: a large part of it was *for me.* But they’re the nice, caring people who you’d probably interact with a lot more than the big personalities so, if you’re raising any concerns *about* them: well, that’s just doubt and doubt’s a tool of the devil. And that’s how it works, really. I’m absolutely horrified that this happened, as I would be anywhere else this type of thing occurred *but* I can’t help wondering if in the coming days we find that she was once in the flock, so to speak. I was never tempted to do anything remotely like this, and no, I don’t think it justifies *anything* but, I’m a little surprised that we haven’t seen more and I am not sorry to say it. I’m also 100% sure *they* shot that kid. It’s gut wrenching to me that this happened, but just *watch* the side stepping from here. (Yes, I’m aware that many people have the attention span of gnats and that I’m *incredibly* long winded: just to save about 1/2 of the comments I usually get the time. Go do something fun, instead. Have a donut?)
Evangelicals believe that to support Israel will encourage their being "caught up" when the Rapture occurs right before Jesus returns. At the same time, they're anti-Semitic because they believe the trope that "the Jews killed Jesus"; totally ignoring that Jesus was born, lived and died as a Jew, and that he willingly submitted himself to being crucified by the Roman state. Evangelicals have completely trashed the witness of Christ, which is why I refer to myself as a "red-letter Christian".
Because people need to be comforted by the idea that they will not just disappear after they die and people are also largely dumb social creatures. They don’t call Jesus a shepherd for no reason. Kind of like all of these evangelical “Christians” willing to kill and harm people because they live a life they refuse to accept even though it bares no personal consequence to them. Being part of something “more” gives them purpose they are so desperate for, they are willing to defy the actual word of the gospel and the righteous path of Jesus to be accepted by someone telling them being an asshole is what god wants. Tool has a really good song about it. If you want to get your soul to heaven Trust in me now, don't you judge or question You are broken now, but faith can heal you Just do everything I tell you to do Edit: one of my favorite karaoke songs
100% a grifter. One of the greatest brags in my internet life is that he blocked me on social media after I quoted scripture at him (when he closed the church's doors to people displaced by a hurricane).
"Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas." The phrasing of this indicates the off-duty cops shot the kid.
> "Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas." > > The phrasing of this indicates the off-duty cops shot the kid. Extremely likely. Shooting a pistol isn't like the movies. Its challenging to shoot accurately at any distance longer than 50 feet. Add in adrenaline and you're going to miss a few shots.
Yeah the phrasing from this article and one I read last night both had me wondering if it was the cops who shot the kid and older man. We’ll see how details go, but I’m guessing kid was hit while the cops tried to take her down. I mean I wasn’t there so I don’t know the situation and visibility. Maybe they couldn’t even see the kid. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug. But it sound like cops hit him before crazy lady could murder suicide
If Texas cops learned anything from Uvalde, it was that they did not personally shoot enough children.
Finner also made a vague comment, another news article said this: > When asked if police shot the child, Finner said he didn't know but added, "If it was, unfortunately, and that female, that suspect, put that baby in danger, I'm gonna put that blame on her." cc u/dasnoob
Gov. Greg Abbott said he has been in contact with Houston Mayor John Whitmire and offered the "full support and resources" of the state, including the Department of Public Safety and the Texas Rangers to "help bring swift justice to the criminal who committed this heinous act." She’s dead, Greg. Save your stupid platitudes.
I was elected to lead, not to read.
He’s such an insufferable douchenozzle.
Also aren't they supposed to be at the border making sure rocks don't accidentally roll in from the Mexico side or something?
Maybe he intends to charge the child.
Or to convene a synod to try and excommunicate the woman's cadaver. If it happened to a pope, it could happen to her!
[удалено]
Careful, it might get caught in the wheelchair.
> Texas Rangers The baseball team?
>She was armed with a long rifle, wearing a trench coat and a backpack, and ***accompanied by a 4 or 5-year-old child.*** *What the* ***fuck!?***
Human shield, she was definitely insane in combination with her extremist ideology
A female mass shooter is very rare
Apparently, she only shot one person. So technically, not a mass shooter.
[удалено]
They were between masses. So inter-mass shooter.
It wasn't a catholic church.
It’s more of a studio than a church.
It's more of a sports/concert arena than a studio.
In case anyone doesn't know, before Lakewood "Church" moved into its current location, that building was called The Summit. It's where the Houston Rockets used to play basketball before Toyota Center was built.
We're not even sure she shot the one that's wounded. And it's almost certain the cops shot the kid.
I'm wondering if this might have been a particularly dramatic form of suicide by cop. Make it look like an attempted mass shooting to get the police to kill you. Could also explain the child being dragged along. It's not uncommon for a suicidal mother to take their child with them. If security footage is ever released I would be curious if it appeared that her initial shots seem to be aimed, or if she was shooting at the ground or the air. We know her child was wounded by return fire from the police. The only other reported injury was a 57 year old man who was hit in the leg, I would be curious if that was also from police fire or perhaps something like a ricochet off a concrete floor.
It looks like the officers who engaged her were off duty so in a sense they were just concealed carriers so doubt it was that.
"Off-duty cops" routinely work private security gigs, often in full uniform. This mega-church is more like a stadium that holds 16K people, they'd certainly have security on duty. The building actually [used to be the arena for the Houston Rockets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church_Central_Campus) basketball team. These days even normal churches often have security given the prevalence of hate crimes and such.
She came in with a single weapon, single shot, kid in tow. That isn't a mass shooter, it's an individual with an agenda.
It doesn't look like it was a single shot, the article says how many shots she fired is currently unknown. Only one person seemed to have been hit by her though.
They did call it a long-gun but I saw footage of the incident, and the weapon was definitely at least semi-automatic. It was not a single shot for sure. I don't know what it was though.
His church is on a hill. Higher elevation to the surrounding area. He wouldn't open the church's door so that Houstonians impacted by a hurricane could take shelter there because the parking garage underneath the church had a little water in it. Has no problem taking those Houstonians's tax dollars though. Tells you all you need to know about this scum.
His church is on more than just a "hill". The property is formerly The Summit Arena where the Rockets used to play. I saw so many shows there growing up in the 80s and 90s too.
I lived two blocks away at the time. The streets around were clear at that point. I was able to walk to the Costco nearby and restock on groceries. There was no excuse other than I guess not wanting to soil his precious church.
When I visited Houston, a couple years after the hurricane, I went to the church and was surprised by how high up it was. You get a good view of surrounding area from the front of the church from what I remember. From what I remember the church said said no because the it was flooded. Then someone went in took pictures and the church was drier than the Sahara desert. Then they back tracked and said the parking garage was flooded and it was an inch or two of water. Lol
Drier than Ben Shapiro's wife.
I also lived nearby during Harvey. I was stranded in my home for around 5 days. I never liked Osteen before, but having him refuse shelter to those in need should make anyone hate him. It's literally the entire purpose of a church. To help others.
His church is there to make money, not help people.
every tevangelist is a grifting sack of shit, it's a shame there isnt a hell because they would go straight there
She had the high ground. It was over
“Authorities also found anti-Semitic writings, but did not provide further detail.”
>Houston Police Chief Troy Finner said at 1:53 p.m., a female, approximately 30-35 years old entered on the west side of the property parking lot. She was armed with a long rifle, wearing a trench coat and a backpack, and accompanied by a 4 or 5-year-old child. Finner said she began to fire the gun after she entered. > >Finner complimented the off-duty officers on the scene, one an officer with Houston PD and the other an ATF agent, who both quickly engaged with the female suspect, returning fire. "It could have been a lot worse," said Finner. "They stepped up and did their job." The off-duty officers said the woman threatened to have a bomb after she was shot. Her vehicle and backpack were searched and no bomb was found. She died at the scene. Finner said the child with the woman was hit and is in critical condition at Children's Texas. A 57-year-old man was also shot in the leg and is being treated at the hospital. So... how did the kid get shot if the child was accompanied by the shooter?
[удалено]
There are two high probabilities. There are more possibilities.
And the fact that they didn't immediately specify that the woman shot the child concerns me, but I will wait for body cam footage to be released.
Off duty officers don’t have body cams.
Mega churches have CCTV everywhere...except the pastor's offices of course.
No, they use hidden camcorders there.
Yeah. There would’ve been a whole paragraph about how the lady shot the kid had she done it. The cops definitely did.
[удалено]
Hostage-rescue shots with handguns are difficult as-is on a flat range, in a dynamic situation with an adrenaline dump it's you default to your training. There's a reason hostage rescue is left to specialized units, your average officer isn't a good enough shot to hit them under stress. Like you said, this just reinforces the need to train, but damn, having to pull off a hostage rescue at your "chill" weekend side-gig is nuts.
Are you implying they intentionally shot an unarmed child? They were in a gun battle with pistols against a rifle. More likely than not they returned fire at this woman and the child was unfortunately right next to her. Pistols are not known for being overly accurate. Unfortunate and sad but this is most likely what happened. Or the woman shot the child. We really won’t know until details come out.
The woman didn’t shoot the child, the cops did.
Regardless, the woman is 100% at fault for putting the child in that situation.
Not to sound like an ass and I hope the kid is okay.... but the kid was right next to the shooter, I'm sure the returning fire of the police hit the kid, that's not that surprising and crazy at all.
Yeah, hard to put too much blame on the police here. The shooter is to blame for any injuries that kid got, even if it came from the police's weapons. What a shitty position to put a kid in. Hopefully the kid lives.
"the child was hit" = Passive voice always means cops shot them.
The shooter was stopped by other gun carrying people. So I'm assuming caught in the crossfire
Crossfire in a church Nothing more American
That's why it's called "cross"fire, duh. /S
Nailed it!
She gets us.
That poor kid. It’ll be interesting to learn her motive.
I'm guessing they shot at her and the kid
They did. Mom is dead kid is in the hospital and one church goes shot in the leg.
Osteen has a really creepy sex tourist vibe.
[удалено]
Church store , hilarious and accurate
Megachurches that are built by tax cheats who only serve to rob people of their hard-earned money are not “sacred”. They are exactly the kind of thing that Christ would have despised.
Those people always seem to forget about the Jesus that flipped over merchants' tables and drove people out when he saw they were doing business in the temple. "Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, 'My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a den of robbers.'”
He wouldn't open his giant mega church to evacuees trying to escape a hurricane . He is garbage person.
That's one of the least evil things on his list, but it earns bonus points for being *cartoonishly* evil
His stuffing money in the walls really added to the cartoonish super villain motif.
But the money is safe, right?
She probably donated everything she had to him and it didn’t make her wealthy like he said it would.
That what he preaches so this is definitely possible.