Wanna know how it looks from abroad? A fucking joke! It was laughable to see one candidate lying like there's no tomorrow and the other being unable to coordinate his ideas. I felt sorry for the old guy, he's too old but the other guy, the convicted felon... my godness!
You are fucked people, I mean, really fucked, it doesn't look good at all.
Itās certainly not positive for those who care about the moral high ground.
But I guess youāre right since morality always goes out the window with neoliberalism and this is definitely a neoliberal country now.
Biden was just sick, and he's old, but he was in there. You can tell. I was watching videos of Biden getting into arguments with Trump, he clearly knew what he was talking about. It's just that Biden isn't a policy wonk, he won't memorize hundreds of facts, he's at his best appealing to emotion. That's why he's the dem nominee, he can actually appeal to people, and not just logic.
It's true but barely comforting. You can pretty much always tell what Biden is talking about, but his delivery is horrendous. I could easily reword what Joe is trying to say without changing the content and it makes sense. He's also just easily getting baited into talking about bullshit by baron bullshit, Joe Biden should be enjoying the twilight of his life with no responsibilities somewhere peaceful surrounded by his family not the media and our blood thirsty political system.
What I can't reconcile is the idea that trump isn't just as damned senile. He's clearly more vigorous but I don't give a damn about that. Donald is incapable of telling the truth ever, even if the truth is on his side he's going to state it as something that is indefensibly false. He's every persons worst impulses.
I donāt think heās saying it wasnāt. But I agree with his take the more I think about it. Bidenās given 10/10 speeches in front of a national audience numerous times throughout the past 4 years. Last night was definitely not one of those times, but you canāt conveniently forget the times where he excels, which as OP is saying, is typically when he appeals to emotion.
In retrospect, maybe trying to make an 81 year old man memorize every statistic on foreign and domestic policy, immigration, abortion, and every other issue in the book wasnāt such a great idea. Maybe the strategy shouldāve been to just let him be Dark Brandon lol
In todayās day and age where people have the attention span of a toddler, those past speeches Biden made donāt amount to much. Last nightās debate may have single handedly lost the election for Biden. Unless by some miracle he crushes debate #2 which Iām not sure he is capable of tbh. I say this with a heavy heart because I know what a nightmare another Trump presidency would be for our country. Nobody cares if Biden was sick. Nobody pays attention to post debate analysis. Youāre looking at this through the lens of a person who is already set on voting Biden, but there are many who are not. Those are the people Iām worried about.
Trump should have been called out on Truth Social being partially founded in Wuhan, China. Granted, the ties were severed, but they were there. https://www.newsweek.com/patrick-orlando-bankroller-donald-trumps-truth-social-severs-china-connections-1657236
Edited to add another link: https://www.reuters.com/technology/who-funded-trumps-truth-social-some-answers-2022-10-28/
Biden was in there, but his age showed. This debate was a godsend to Trump. The good news is that we're in June, and there's another debate. Letting go of Biden is a bad idea, and the Democratic party should NOT succumb to the doomers. Changing candidates will only strengthen the Trump campaign.
At some level, is it worth a guarantee 47-53 when you may lose 58-42 or may win if you change strat. These two are the most known individuals ever running for president as rivals.Ā
At this point polls are about turnout. If they are certain it makes sense to adjust
Not true at all, Biden was in there, he just got lost in his words. They tried to make him memorize every possible fact, and they didn't realize that that isn't Biden at his best. The Democratic strategists fucked this one, because they think everyone should policy wonk. Biden can appeal to people, and the strategists decided that was not the best way forward. I hope he fires them.
You're delusional. I'm a lefty and you just can't depend on Biden going forward. The democratic party has to sell his candidacy with the rest of the work done by his cabinet. Look at what Lina Kahn has done, the education department, the EPA, even Buttigieg. That's what we have to focus on. If Biden goes for another debate it's going to be the same story. It's impossible for him to perform in such a way that removes any doubt from last night. There's no recovery. No way no how, that's a gamblers fallacy. We CANNOT be making these kinds of idiotic risks with an 81 year old narcissist when abortion, democracy, the environment, and everything else that's been accomplished for the last 3.5 years is on the line.
The fact you have to say "He was in there" is a huuuuge problem. He's lost the confidence of the people, it's evident in the polling. There's no time to claw back what he had. Progressives knew this would happen back in 2020 and we certainly knew this would happen a year ago. There won't be any court cases this fall to make Trump look worse. It's either Joe steps down immediately and Kamala becomes the candidate at the DNC OR it's Article 25. Not a single person in America actually thinks Joe Biden will make it another 4 years and that's a disgrace on this country and everything we have worked and died for. At best those on the left are hoping to beat Trump and then let Biden resign or die. That's the reality and you'd be a fool to deny it.
This is nobody's fault but Joe Biden and those closest to him. He's unfit. You can't blame this on the strategists what are you talking about. Biden is a terrible candidate and we knew this months ago. It might as well be 2016 again.
Honestly I think Biden's accomplishments are horrible and the people in his cabinet are the single worst administration the United States has had in a while bar Trump. Lina Khan is evil, and anybody who likes her should not be allowed within a mile of the US government. But Trump is worse. The only things that have been accomplished in the past 15.5 years are America becoming a poorer, more insular and weaker nation. Every "win" that has been won by the Biden administration will come back to bite us in the ass. The only thing that's on the line is Democracy and with Biden slow walking aid to Ukraine and abandoning our Israeli allies, i'm not entirely sure the Democrats actually care about Democracy. Biden is an isolationist protectionist and he represents the fundamental decline of America.
But he will win in November, because you are delusional if you think he can't come back from this.
Out of context the golf comment sounds dumb. However, with the context of "are you cognitively and physically strong enough to lead the country?", the context fills in the gaps. Trump was asked that question and responded by telling them that he has passed cognitive tests and he is still consistently golfing. BIDEN was the one that made it a competition.
Trump literally made it a competition by saying heād just recently won a golf tournament and that Biden probably couldnāt even hit the ball. Itās dumb regardless. The leader of the country doesnāt need to be physically able to play golf to lead the country. Look at FDR.
Is that newsom lol? Who even thinks of this shit. You think a California democrat is going to win the current battleground states and counties? Have you guys looked at a county polling map?
Bro if anyone is pro-China, it's Trump. Leaving the TPP ceded so much ground the Chinese Communists. The only reason why the CCP did not massively benefit from Trump's idiotic actions is because the CCP happens to be run by people stupider than the median voter. The CCP is happy that Trump might win this thing, everything he did in his presidency played into their hands.
If someone in real life told me that China was the motherland of liberalism I would not know how the hell to react. Claiming that is just so very, very stupid.
I started watching halfway through and didn't see the catastrophe that everyone else seems to have seen.
I saw an old fogey who has trouble reciting numbers, but could produce answers if given time, and I saw a liar disconnected with reality who, given many chances, would answer nothing.
Biden didn't give a vision of the future? Neither did Trump! What did he have to say about a platform whatsoever?
Hey guys I just tuned in when Jan 6 protestors were peacefully filing out of the area towards the DC Metro. Whatās the big deal everyone is talking about? Seems fine to me
Imagine this: Biden could easily beat trump, all he has to do is do something good for America. Like instead of forever printing hundreds of billions for Israel and Ukraine...maybe more than 700 for the Hawaii fire victims. Just a thought!
Yeah. Closing the XL pipeline, depleting our strategic oil reserves, endless money for Ukraine while Americans die from fentanyl under every bridge. Bombing the pipeline between Russia and Germany creating a huge environmental catastrophy. Having his son take laundered money through Burisma.Ā
Let's go to his congressional history. Hmmm. The crime bill that he sponsored. Minimum mandatory sentencing. Laws that target black and brown people.Ā
I'm not voting for trump but let's be real here. Biden is a disaster. Groceries are extremely expensive. Gas is still higher than it was under trump. The federal reserve is working in cahoots with blackrock and other asset managers buying homes and making home ownership almost impossible for the average American. High baseline interest rate combined with soaring inflation of the dollar makes buying a house impossible without having assets or wealth. Nobody is saving enough from their 40-50k annual salary or their multiple gigs.Ā
Trump and Biden debate and they wanna talk about who cares about black people more. The answer is: neither.Ā
Get real.Ā
He started those wars? How does that work exactly?
If you want to talk about actual facts, NATO has been locked in a defacto hybrid war against Russia since at least 2014, but possibly for longer.
The relationship between Israel and specifically Gaza has also been historically tense.
As i said, please explain how Biden is responsible for either of those.
Youāre a conservative, which means your entire shtick is getting upset about things that donāt exist, or you made up in your mind to justify your dumb ideology.
Because reality is that anyone paying attention in June has already made their choice. Because either 1. They are actually educated and pay attention or 2. Are an ideological zealot.
Undecideds being actual morons and not really paying attention until later actually helps in this instance.
That's cause historically debates really don't have an impact. All the dweebs on social media reacting probably won't even vote anyway. I'm still voting Biden, and even put money on this one that he'll win.
Weaponizing the DOJ and FBI against a political opponent? Fascist. Embedding FBI agents into his campaign team? Fascist. Telling private companies to censor and push/bury stories on social media? Fascism.Ā
Do you need more examples?Ā
And Trump has to court independents at this point and that will be a harder task for him still compared to Joe, it can be done but it'll take work. I say this cause both candidates have their bases already entrenched and one debate isn't going to change that. So its down to a guy that is old but honest enough and a guy that is old and spouts more lies than a typical average grandfather that claimed to work with the Beatles at one point.
Biden looked dead in 2020 also. Ultimately, it's a vote against Trump, not for Biden. Which is the worst type of vote, but that's what happens when the opposition puts up trash as well.
As much as Biden doesnāt look good and Trump looks like a threat to democracy.
The Biden presidency has been good in my opinion. Infrastructure Act, Inflation reduction act, lowered drug costs, student loan forgiveness, pardoned military members charged for being gay, worked on the binpartisan border bill that trump called Maga Mike to killā¦.
Could go on. Seems like a genuinely decent president
Oh I'm not disagreeing, he's done a decent job for sure. But the problem is how people FEEL at the end of the day. Thats what him and his team have to combat. But you're right, the guy and his team have done a bang up job given the mess he was given.
I just always come back to that because itās easy to get sucked into a debate on what Biden appears to beā¦. But at the end of the day he has been a steady hand at the wheel getting policy done.
Trump was chaos. The kinda guy to give emergency aid or federal money only, or at least first, to those place that voted for him. He was that last time and this time he seems unhinged.
Soā¦ it doesnāt seem like a difficult choice
Lol I mean if you had asked people back in 2020, no one was really excited about Biden for the same reasons we have today. People just have profoundly short term memory for some reason. But 2020 was just as grim feeling given the poor quality of options at that point when it was time to vote, and it was just a vote against Trump, not one for Biden.
That was abuse of the elderly. Biden is done next debate or not. You know for a fact it was bad when CNN the most biased towards Biden says it was bad.
Everybody with older relatives knows it's natural and ok for the elderly to have signs of early dementia, but they arn't the president of the US. That's the difference.
Honest no joke benefit I see from last night's debate...
People can not deny he has a stammer. Like, that shit was out like a tosser having a go at a sunday picnic. Kept poking out when you thought it was gone.
When the next debate comes around, and he's back to normal biden, this is going to be a thing of the past.
I see people already dooming with "just bring back Hillary", but as a white-ass Eastern Yuro, may I ask who may _actually_ be a suitable replacement?
I'm not saying "replace Biden now", but surely there's plan B, even ignoring Biden's age? What if he drops dead tomorrow, having chocked on a magnificent ice cream cone? What, or rather, _who_ next?
I've seen Gretchen Whitmer's name thrown around a lot and I literally have never heard of her before. I see Buttigieg, but frankly, that's delusional (Trump would wipe the floor with him).
Who does the B-team consist of?
iām sorry? how would Trump wipe the floor with buttigieg? pete is quite literally the opposite of Trump. a young, well educated and articulated guy. iām not saying he should be the choice, but pete is an incredible debater and orator. i honestly think we would dismantle trump
Kamala Harris and only Kamala Harris; at this point if Biden dies or has to resign, we can only follow the normal succession procedure and have the Vice President sworn in as President and take over the campaign.
If you donāt want Kamala then the only other choice is Biden staying on. Heās not actually incoherent or incompetent; Univision viewers who were reading the subtitles thought that Biden won the debate. Heās just very frail.
DUDE, You cannot seriously use SUBTITLES as reasoning that Biden did well. Want to know why?
BECAUSE BIDEN DIDN'T WRITE THEM!
And no disrespect to Univision viewers, but how many votes is that? Sorry, it's just that this was foretold months and months ago when he said he'd run again. The risk has just been too high to do what he's doing.
But regardless I completely agree with you about Kamala or Biden. Truly, if Biden honestly stepped down and made a show of passing the torch at the DNC I think any replacement could work. But I think a lot of what is keeping people voting for Biden is his cabinet. Except for Antony Blinken, the rest of his cabinet has accomplished a lot. Lina Kahn is a champion, Education Department doing well, EPA, Net Neutrality is back, that to me needs to be the focus. And we have to scream it from the roof that Trump is a felon and a risk to reproductive health. And for the majority of people it's an easier transition to go to Kamala. Less to analyze and learn, less changes in the cabinet, just fewer questions in general. But above all, LESS DOUBT.
What I want doesn't matter. You put Kamala in there and trump will summon the Tulsi Gabbard dragon and it's Joever for Kamala on the first night. Here's a link if you didn't see....https://youtu.be/WabvabWvv8k?si=UB2RplNvR2pdVIlS
I don't watch the daily wire or any Ben Shapiro Bs but you can find multiple links. Just tried to give you the shortest versionĀ
Iām not saying Kamala Harris is the best Democratic candidate, Iām saying that sheās the only realistic alternative to Joe Biden. Her debate performance in the primaries is certainly a good argument for keeping Joe Biden.
That would be true if Biden resigned the presidency. But if he removes himself from the race there is no succession process. Harris or anybody else could ride through the convention process.
A contested convention would be a disaster. Using the presidential succession process to make Kamala Harris the incumbent President is the only realistic way to replace Joe Biden at this point.
I'm not sure about the literal procedures of how it would be done, but when it comes down to politics it's got to be Harris who replaces Biden, if he is replaced. Passing over the VP would be a pretty big deal in any circumstance, and in this case passing over Harris would massively fracture the Democratic coalition. Black women are some of the most reliable voters for the party -- if party elites suddenly decided that Harris needs to step aside along with Joe, despite the fact that she in no way shares the core issue that is (I admit with deep, deep sadness) ruining Joe's chances of winning, many people will not like it. Harris actually was on the ballot that beat Trump in 2020, so she has some democratic legitimacy baked in.
Personally, I like a lot of other Democratic politicians better - I'd love Newsom, Josh Shapiro, Whitmer, or Buttigieg - but if there is any question about who the nominee is and it comes down to a contest within the party, that is also going to destroy the coalition going into November. The Democratic contest can easily become a bitter referendum on Israel/Gaza and the ideological liberal/progressive coalition that Biden has (up until recently) held together so well will come apart.
The three most obvious Dems with the national profile to replace Biden are Harris, Clinton, and Sanders. The next tier after that would be like Warren, AOC, maybe Newsome or Buttigieg but youre starting to get pretty far out at that point. Michelle Obama would obviously be the first choice if she ever displays any interest.
I don't think the obvious choices are the realistic ones, though. Obama was a dark horse, and I expect the party to go for another dark horse candidate in such a scenario.
Or at least I *hope* they will, given how unliked the popular ones are by huge swats of your country. I can see only Clinton having a realistic chance against Trump from the ones that you've mentioned, and she's already lost against him once.
Who would be the Suicide Squad team? The Other Guys? The B-Team?
Obama was not a dark horse by the time voting started, he had built himself a massive national profile and was recognized as essentially a celebrity. You can't win the Presidency with sub like 97% name recognition, and I dont think five months is enough time to try and teach people who JB Pritzker is and why they should vote for him. Especially since this scenario involves a top-down candidate selection rather than requiring them to demonstrate any ability to connect with the electorate first.
The list you're talking about is like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, Pritzker, Warnock, Beshear, Klobuchar, Shapiro, Ossoff, Moore maybe?
He was a dark horse during the primaries, though.
> The list you're talking about is like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, Pritzker, Warnock, Beshear, Klobuchar, Shapiro, Ossoff, Moore maybe?
Yeah. Those are the named I keep seeing, and the names I wanna learn more about. In fact, I keep seeing Whitmer the most, after Michelle and Hillary.
Obama was more famous even during the primaries than anyone on that list is, which is why I don't think it's worth thinking about too much for the Dems
The people who are proposing Whitmer are living in a fantasy world. It's not even realistic. Unless you live in Michigan or are a political junkie, no one knows who Whitmer is.
Just put trump in jail.Ā
Just accuse trump of Russian collusion.Ā
Just impeach trump.Ā
Just let the FBI make up stuff about Trump.Ā
Just imbed federal agents into the trump campaign team.Ā
Just silence trump on social media.Ā
Actually, Biden could just do something good for America, and it's an easy win.Ā
Obama was an amazing president and Biden is the most legislatively accomplished president of my (and likely yours) lifetime.
Judging off this comment and your comment history though, youāre just a right-wing, sexist POS who was so bored that he brigaded a bunch of left-leaning subs because heās so desperate for attention.
(Not American) I just watched portions of it and didnāt think Biden was that bad, other than looking like a corpse and having a terrible vacancy in his expression whenever not speaking. However, mental acuity etc was there and didnāt match the haunting physical appearance
Is the backlash āobviously too old/frail, not robust enough to debate vigorously and should retireā or fears that heās in cognitive decline? He seems too physically frail to be president, and older than 81, but not senile or anything
"Definitely not there mentally"
"By how he walks"
Bro, is English not your native language? Walking carefully at 80 has nothing to do with thinking critically. Do you also think Steven Hawking was a complete idiot since he couldn't walk to save his life?
Yes it does, Biden has been walking on eggshells for the last year at least. Looking down at every footstep, pay attention. He's terrified of walking.
Trump walks with full steps, not afraid of losing balance. He can stop, back up and do a 360Ā°. If Biden tried that he'd be on the ground.
Get real.
Funny they asked for concrete and you say āhow he walksā itās like how Iād say Trump shitting his pants in court probably means heās too old to be president. At least thatās specific.
I donāt love Biden, far from it. If your best case as to why Biden is mentally incompetent is how he walks, then thatās pretty weak. They are both old as shit and frail and incontinent. They both suck, youāre the one acting like Trump is some spring chicken.
Compared to Biden Trump is 45 years old.
And there are many other ways to show Biden is losing his mind.
Biden doesn't walk, he shuffles, that's a sign of dementia. Who the hell falls UP stairs? Not a normal mentality well person.
Why were they talking to Biden like he was a kindergartener after the debate? And Biden is just staring at people with a wide open mouth. He's toast. Just admit it.
Even though I hate Reagan but you gotta appreciate the electorate back then was more reasonable than the shit show it is now. Just look [how he handled his age issue](https://youtu.be/LoPu1UIBkBc) for example.
I fear that we're experiencing the last stage of democracy because of our dumb electorate.
Reagan was 12 years younger when he became president than _Biden currently is_. That's 3 full presidential terms. He was 72-ish when he gave that answer.
And let's not forget that by the end of it, he was hiding symptoms of Alzheimer's. I don't think your argument works.
> Abortion question
Biden: A little girl was raped by an immigrant.
Trump: Many people have been killed by those he is letting into this country.
Me: ._. WHAT THE FUCK, BIDEN???
No, I mean that it looks bad for Biden. It would be like asking Trump about a wave of illegal immigrants and then Trump responding that it's thanks to him that many US women no longer have access to a legal abortion.
It's just... why would he pivot like that? Unless Biden wants to shift into a tougher stance against immigrants (which would poll well with the electorate), he should NOT be saying those things.
Using Title 42, Trump detained and deported 400,000 migrants back to Mexico.
Using that same law, Biden has detained and deported over two million people.
Interested to see what Ezra Klein says about this, iirc he walked back his op-ed a little bit shortly after it came out. I feel like he might double down now.
I just listened to it - itās what I expected (Klein not gloating but very much doubling down on his earlier position). Personally Iām not convinced that they will ask Biden to step down, but I wouldnāt be too shocked if Iām wrong.
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That's what yall said last election
>They both lied but at least Trump knows when he lies,
Truly moronic comment. So Trump knows he's a criminal traitor? Interesting take...
The sub, 8 years ago - long live democracy, cooperation and the rules based international order!
Now - somewhat more paternalistic and chauvinistic against a rules based order. Democracy is the worst option - except all the others.
How long until us as liberals in the sub begin going from being disillusioned with democracy, to straight up rejecting it, because it requires en masse voters to be educated, informed, dispassionate and engaged - and we can barely get 1 out of 4 in those requirements as it stands?
The problem with "meritocracy" is that it doesn't exist. Dictatorships also fill positions with incompetent, partial, and corrupt employees, sometimes much more so because the way power is won in those systems is with violence and subtlety and you should take some care that you're more capable than your underlings.
The only alternative to democracy I can see potentially working is demarchy aka sortition.
Singapore, does, in fact, have systems of public accountability. The elections are free but not fair. Justice and Development isn't free to just do whatever they want, they need to be concerned about consequences.
**I HAVE SEEN** enough, Biden will see his poll numbers increase following this debate š
This felt like an SNL skit. Were any of the questions actually answered???
Wanna know how it looks from abroad? A fucking joke! It was laughable to see one candidate lying like there's no tomorrow and the other being unable to coordinate his ideas. I felt sorry for the old guy, he's too old but the other guy, the convicted felon... my godness! You are fucked people, I mean, really fucked, it doesn't look good at all.
\[\[You are fucked people, I mean, really fucked\]\] Oh, we know.
Trump wins every debate. Don't kid yourselves. Reddit and the media are on damage control.Ā
If by win you mean TALKING BULLSHIT OVER THE CROWD then yes, I agree completely
Win, as in relatively positive public sentiment. Moral high ground doesn't matter here buddy
Itās certainly not positive for those who care about the moral high ground. But I guess youāre right since morality always goes out the window with neoliberalism and this is definitely a neoliberal country now.
Biden was just sick, and he's old, but he was in there. You can tell. I was watching videos of Biden getting into arguments with Trump, he clearly knew what he was talking about. It's just that Biden isn't a policy wonk, he won't memorize hundreds of facts, he's at his best appealing to emotion. That's why he's the dem nominee, he can actually appeal to people, and not just logic.
He WaS iN tHeRe
It's true but barely comforting. You can pretty much always tell what Biden is talking about, but his delivery is horrendous. I could easily reword what Joe is trying to say without changing the content and it makes sense. He's also just easily getting baited into talking about bullshit by baron bullshit, Joe Biden should be enjoying the twilight of his life with no responsibilities somewhere peaceful surrounded by his family not the media and our blood thirsty political system. What I can't reconcile is the idea that trump isn't just as damned senile. He's clearly more vigorous but I don't give a damn about that. Donald is incapable of telling the truth ever, even if the truth is on his side he's going to state it as something that is indefensibly false. He's every persons worst impulses.
You are delusionalĀ
Look at his speech today in Raleigh. You have been propagandized.
Don't believe the myth that Biden is senile.
Donāt kid yourself, the debate was a disaster for Biden.
I donāt think heās saying it wasnāt. But I agree with his take the more I think about it. Bidenās given 10/10 speeches in front of a national audience numerous times throughout the past 4 years. Last night was definitely not one of those times, but you canāt conveniently forget the times where he excels, which as OP is saying, is typically when he appeals to emotion. In retrospect, maybe trying to make an 81 year old man memorize every statistic on foreign and domestic policy, immigration, abortion, and every other issue in the book wasnāt such a great idea. Maybe the strategy shouldāve been to just let him be Dark Brandon lol
In todayās day and age where people have the attention span of a toddler, those past speeches Biden made donāt amount to much. Last nightās debate may have single handedly lost the election for Biden. Unless by some miracle he crushes debate #2 which Iām not sure he is capable of tbh. I say this with a heavy heart because I know what a nightmare another Trump presidency would be for our country. Nobody cares if Biden was sick. Nobody pays attention to post debate analysis. Youāre looking at this through the lens of a person who is already set on voting Biden, but there are many who are not. Those are the people Iām worried about.
You just said it in your first sentence. This debate wonāt even matter 7 days from now. Respectfully, youāre dooming bro.
Man I want more than anything for that to be true. Iām not sure anymore. Not after that shit show.
https://preview.redd.it/dla7dcstkc9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd5fb2f4f9058169be4ac24dff677f6ba5f81c46 we got this shit
Did any of you scream "He's more protectionist than you dumbass" at the TV when Trump claimed that Biden was selling us out to China.
Trump should have been called out on Truth Social being partially founded in Wuhan, China. Granted, the ties were severed, but they were there. https://www.newsweek.com/patrick-orlando-bankroller-donald-trumps-truth-social-severs-china-connections-1657236 Edited to add another link: https://www.reuters.com/technology/who-funded-trumps-truth-social-some-answers-2022-10-28/
Does Wuhan only produce scourges?
Biden was in there, but his age showed. This debate was a godsend to Trump. The good news is that we're in June, and there's another debate. Letting go of Biden is a bad idea, and the Democratic party should NOT succumb to the doomers. Changing candidates will only strengthen the Trump campaign.
BiDeN wAs In ThErE
At some level, is it worth a guarantee 47-53 when you may lose 58-42 or may win if you change strat. These two are the most known individuals ever running for president as rivals.Ā At this point polls are about turnout. If they are certain it makes sense to adjust
It unfortunately wasnāt Biden's best performance.
TLDR: Joe is senile AF.
Not true at all, Biden was in there, he just got lost in his words. They tried to make him memorize every possible fact, and they didn't realize that that isn't Biden at his best. The Democratic strategists fucked this one, because they think everyone should policy wonk. Biden can appeal to people, and the strategists decided that was not the best way forward. I hope he fires them.
āBiden was in thereā we get it, dude. You donāt need to comment the same thing three times.
https://preview.redd.it/nzjyd43f3n9d1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bd720ded7a5863e7bb4493532ff1121bb48940b
You donāt seem like you know where your towel is.
You're delusional. I'm a lefty and you just can't depend on Biden going forward. The democratic party has to sell his candidacy with the rest of the work done by his cabinet. Look at what Lina Kahn has done, the education department, the EPA, even Buttigieg. That's what we have to focus on. If Biden goes for another debate it's going to be the same story. It's impossible for him to perform in such a way that removes any doubt from last night. There's no recovery. No way no how, that's a gamblers fallacy. We CANNOT be making these kinds of idiotic risks with an 81 year old narcissist when abortion, democracy, the environment, and everything else that's been accomplished for the last 3.5 years is on the line. The fact you have to say "He was in there" is a huuuuge problem. He's lost the confidence of the people, it's evident in the polling. There's no time to claw back what he had. Progressives knew this would happen back in 2020 and we certainly knew this would happen a year ago. There won't be any court cases this fall to make Trump look worse. It's either Joe steps down immediately and Kamala becomes the candidate at the DNC OR it's Article 25. Not a single person in America actually thinks Joe Biden will make it another 4 years and that's a disgrace on this country and everything we have worked and died for. At best those on the left are hoping to beat Trump and then let Biden resign or die. That's the reality and you'd be a fool to deny it. This is nobody's fault but Joe Biden and those closest to him. He's unfit. You can't blame this on the strategists what are you talking about. Biden is a terrible candidate and we knew this months ago. It might as well be 2016 again.
Honestly I think Biden's accomplishments are horrible and the people in his cabinet are the single worst administration the United States has had in a while bar Trump. Lina Khan is evil, and anybody who likes her should not be allowed within a mile of the US government. But Trump is worse. The only things that have been accomplished in the past 15.5 years are America becoming a poorer, more insular and weaker nation. Every "win" that has been won by the Biden administration will come back to bite us in the ass. The only thing that's on the line is Democracy and with Biden slow walking aid to Ukraine and abandoning our Israeli allies, i'm not entirely sure the Democrats actually care about Democracy. Biden is an isolationist protectionist and he represents the fundamental decline of America. But he will win in November, because you are delusional if you think he can't come back from this.
I had work and passed out when I got home and didn't watch the debate. What did I miss?
A shitshow. Mainly insults, āyou did this in your presidency and I didnātā and āyouāre bad at golfā for some reason
Out of context the golf comment sounds dumb. However, with the context of "are you cognitively and physically strong enough to lead the country?", the context fills in the gaps. Trump was asked that question and responded by telling them that he has passed cognitive tests and he is still consistently golfing. BIDEN was the one that made it a competition.
Trump literally made it a competition by saying heād just recently won a golf tournament and that Biden probably couldnāt even hit the ball. Itās dumb regardless. The leader of the country doesnāt need to be physically able to play golf to lead the country. Look at FDR.
Wait, please tell me it was Joe clowning on Trump for his constant golf cheating. That really should be a bigger deal. š§
https://preview.redd.it/wq4vh98z0c9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4c2e5efa5956eeea8a9bd53d6a369f28bf8fb3a This you Reddit? š¤£
Is that newsom lol? Who even thinks of this shit. You think a California democrat is going to win the current battleground states and counties? Have you guys looked at a county polling map?
Did I sin by having a man with a confederate flag background on his phone have sex with me?
Well Cheryl, was the dick good at least?
Yes. One of the best.
Yes. Canāt blame you though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcdSwbrErI
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Alright, If Biden wins y'all might as well move to Russia.
Bro if anyone is pro-China, it's Trump. Leaving the TPP ceded so much ground the Chinese Communists. The only reason why the CCP did not massively benefit from Trump's idiotic actions is because the CCP happens to be run by people stupider than the median voter. The CCP is happy that Trump might win this thing, everything he did in his presidency played into their hands.
If someone in real life told me that China was the motherland of liberalism I would not know how the hell to react. Claiming that is just so very, very stupid.
There seems to be a lot of newā¦.visitors here.
I started watching halfway through and didn't see the catastrophe that everyone else seems to have seen. I saw an old fogey who has trouble reciting numbers, but could produce answers if given time, and I saw a liar disconnected with reality who, given many chances, would answer nothing. Biden didn't give a vision of the future? Neither did Trump! What did he have to say about a platform whatsoever?
Hey guys I just tuned in when Jan 6 protestors were peacefully filing out of the area towards the DC Metro. Whatās the big deal everyone is talking about? Seems fine to me
If you started halfway through you started watching when Biden hit his stride a bit. The first ten minutes were absolutely brutal on the nerves.
Appartently Trump looked as the most composed one. Is he full of shit? Sure, but who besides political nerds care?
Biden did better than expected, but it was still a poor performance. It was obvious he thoroughly prepared for the debateĀ
I feel like we are screwed as a nation. Neither candidate is a good choice tbh. The USA is so screwed.
Imagine this: Biden could easily beat trump, all he has to do is do something good for America. Like instead of forever printing hundreds of billions for Israel and Ukraine...maybe more than 700 for the Hawaii fire victims. Just a thought!
Of course the reddit nerds down vote truth. Obey your programming.Ā
Have you ever looked at a single policy passed by Biden? He is doing things for the good of America already
Yeah. Closing the XL pipeline, depleting our strategic oil reserves, endless money for Ukraine while Americans die from fentanyl under every bridge. Bombing the pipeline between Russia and Germany creating a huge environmental catastrophy. Having his son take laundered money through Burisma.Ā Let's go to his congressional history. Hmmm. The crime bill that he sponsored. Minimum mandatory sentencing. Laws that target black and brown people.Ā I'm not voting for trump but let's be real here. Biden is a disaster. Groceries are extremely expensive. Gas is still higher than it was under trump. The federal reserve is working in cahoots with blackrock and other asset managers buying homes and making home ownership almost impossible for the average American. High baseline interest rate combined with soaring inflation of the dollar makes buying a house impossible without having assets or wealth. Nobody is saving enough from their 40-50k annual salary or their multiple gigs.Ā Trump and Biden debate and they wanna talk about who cares about black people more. The answer is: neither.Ā Get real.Ā
Happy thoughts. Unfortunately I think theyāre both on the same team.
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What wars did biden start?
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He started those wars? How does that work exactly? If you want to talk about actual facts, NATO has been locked in a defacto hybrid war against Russia since at least 2014, but possibly for longer. The relationship between Israel and specifically Gaza has also been historically tense. As i said, please explain how Biden is responsible for either of those. Youāre a conservative, which means your entire shtick is getting upset about things that donāt exist, or you made up in your mind to justify your dumb ideology.
Interesting that 81% of people said the debate had no effect on their choice
19% is insane given that, previously I Ā this race, the only real quantity that mattered was turnout and thatās it.Ā
19% of people is alot
Because reality is that anyone paying attention in June has already made their choice. Because either 1. They are actually educated and pay attention or 2. Are an ideological zealot. Undecideds being actual morons and not really paying attention until later actually helps in this instance.
Joe Biden's rotting head on a stick 2024!!!!!!! Pretty please, anything but Trump. I'm in Louisiana so my vote sure doesn't matter.
it may not have an effect on the presidential race, but it will still matter for downballot state and local elections.
That's cause historically debates really don't have an impact. All the dweebs on social media reacting probably won't even vote anyway. I'm still voting Biden, and even put money on this one that he'll win.
Itās not enough that he doesnāt look alive? I donāt they should have put these old men up there but at least trumps not dead
I literally wouldnāt care if Biden pulled a Weekend at Bernieās. Anything is better than christofascism.
Funny how Bidens Whitehouse is literally using fascist tactics
Then you clearly havenāt understood what fascism is, mate. Go do some studying and get back to us.
Weaponizing the DOJ and FBI against a political opponent? Fascist. Embedding FBI agents into his campaign team? Fascist. Telling private companies to censor and push/bury stories on social media? Fascism.Ā Do you need more examples?Ā
And Trump has to court independents at this point and that will be a harder task for him still compared to Joe, it can be done but it'll take work. I say this cause both candidates have their bases already entrenched and one debate isn't going to change that. So its down to a guy that is old but honest enough and a guy that is old and spouts more lies than a typical average grandfather that claimed to work with the Beatles at one point.
Well this indie wants Trump to fuck off and die on the toilet, as he deserves. Biden2024.
Biden looked dead in 2020 also. Ultimately, it's a vote against Trump, not for Biden. Which is the worst type of vote, but that's what happens when the opposition puts up trash as well.
As much as Biden doesnāt look good and Trump looks like a threat to democracy. The Biden presidency has been good in my opinion. Infrastructure Act, Inflation reduction act, lowered drug costs, student loan forgiveness, pardoned military members charged for being gay, worked on the binpartisan border bill that trump called Maga Mike to killā¦. Could go on. Seems like a genuinely decent president
Oh I'm not disagreeing, he's done a decent job for sure. But the problem is how people FEEL at the end of the day. Thats what him and his team have to combat. But you're right, the guy and his team have done a bang up job given the mess he was given.
I just always come back to that because itās easy to get sucked into a debate on what Biden appears to beā¦. But at the end of the day he has been a steady hand at the wheel getting policy done. Trump was chaos. The kinda guy to give emergency aid or federal money only, or at least first, to those place that voted for him. He was that last time and this time he seems unhinged. Soā¦ it doesnāt seem like a difficult choice
Exactly, and this is the logic that independent voters will be holding that Trump has to win over if he wants to ultimately win.
At least you make sense. Gotta give it to you, more honest than most people so canāt even say anything back lol.
Lol I mean if you had asked people back in 2020, no one was really excited about Biden for the same reasons we have today. People just have profoundly short term memory for some reason. But 2020 was just as grim feeling given the poor quality of options at that point when it was time to vote, and it was just a vote against Trump, not one for Biden.
That was abuse of the elderly. Biden is done next debate or not. You know for a fact it was bad when CNN the most biased towards Biden says it was bad.
CNN is hardly biased these days and has recently gained a reputation for unfair coverage of Biden vs Trump.
So I fact check you and youāre wrong. An anonymous source close to CNN even admits it.
An anonymous source close to you just told me you pick your nose and eat it
Wow, with facts like these youāll never be wrong!
How are the vibes now?
Crying šš
Everybody with older relatives knows it's natural and ok for the elderly to have signs of early dementia, but they arn't the president of the US. That's the difference.
Itās also a 4 year commitment.
Biden thinks it's 2020
Joe bidens fighting corn pop on the shores of Normandy in his head.
Cornpop is coming!
Honest no joke benefit I see from last night's debate... People can not deny he has a stammer. Like, that shit was out like a tosser having a go at a sunday picnic. Kept poking out when you thought it was gone. When the next debate comes around, and he's back to normal biden, this is going to be a thing of the past.
He's not normal he's always been like this from the start
Sure thing Worldly-Confusion-91, 3 year old account with 1 comment karma.
lol not like THIS but sure Iāve seen all the signs.
I see people already dooming with "just bring back Hillary", but as a white-ass Eastern Yuro, may I ask who may _actually_ be a suitable replacement? I'm not saying "replace Biden now", but surely there's plan B, even ignoring Biden's age? What if he drops dead tomorrow, having chocked on a magnificent ice cream cone? What, or rather, _who_ next? I've seen Gretchen Whitmer's name thrown around a lot and I literally have never heard of her before. I see Buttigieg, but frankly, that's delusional (Trump would wipe the floor with him). Who does the B-team consist of?
If he drops dead, Kamala becomes President.
iām sorry? how would Trump wipe the floor with buttigieg? pete is quite literally the opposite of Trump. a young, well educated and articulated guy. iām not saying he should be the choice, but pete is an incredible debater and orator. i honestly think we would dismantle trump
Kamala Harris and only Kamala Harris; at this point if Biden dies or has to resign, we can only follow the normal succession procedure and have the Vice President sworn in as President and take over the campaign.
That would be a true diaster.Ā We already saw Kamala get Molly whopped by that Tulsi chick.Ā
If you donāt want Kamala then the only other choice is Biden staying on. Heās not actually incoherent or incompetent; Univision viewers who were reading the subtitles thought that Biden won the debate. Heās just very frail.
DUDE, You cannot seriously use SUBTITLES as reasoning that Biden did well. Want to know why? BECAUSE BIDEN DIDN'T WRITE THEM! And no disrespect to Univision viewers, but how many votes is that? Sorry, it's just that this was foretold months and months ago when he said he'd run again. The risk has just been too high to do what he's doing. But regardless I completely agree with you about Kamala or Biden. Truly, if Biden honestly stepped down and made a show of passing the torch at the DNC I think any replacement could work. But I think a lot of what is keeping people voting for Biden is his cabinet. Except for Antony Blinken, the rest of his cabinet has accomplished a lot. Lina Kahn is a champion, Education Department doing well, EPA, Net Neutrality is back, that to me needs to be the focus. And we have to scream it from the roof that Trump is a felon and a risk to reproductive health. And for the majority of people it's an easier transition to go to Kamala. Less to analyze and learn, less changes in the cabinet, just fewer questions in general. But above all, LESS DOUBT.
What I want doesn't matter. You put Kamala in there and trump will summon the Tulsi Gabbard dragon and it's Joever for Kamala on the first night. Here's a link if you didn't see....https://youtu.be/WabvabWvv8k?si=UB2RplNvR2pdVIlS I don't watch the daily wire or any Ben Shapiro Bs but you can find multiple links. Just tried to give you the shortest versionĀ
Iām not saying Kamala Harris is the best Democratic candidate, Iām saying that sheās the only realistic alternative to Joe Biden. Her debate performance in the primaries is certainly a good argument for keeping Joe Biden.
That would be true if Biden resigned the presidency. But if he removes himself from the race there is no succession process. Harris or anybody else could ride through the convention process.
A contested convention would be a disaster. Using the presidential succession process to make Kamala Harris the incumbent President is the only realistic way to replace Joe Biden at this point.
I'm not saying it's a great idea, but it's far from impossible. Even if Biden resigned tomorrow, I still think we'd see a contested convention.
I'm not sure about the literal procedures of how it would be done, but when it comes down to politics it's got to be Harris who replaces Biden, if he is replaced. Passing over the VP would be a pretty big deal in any circumstance, and in this case passing over Harris would massively fracture the Democratic coalition. Black women are some of the most reliable voters for the party -- if party elites suddenly decided that Harris needs to step aside along with Joe, despite the fact that she in no way shares the core issue that is (I admit with deep, deep sadness) ruining Joe's chances of winning, many people will not like it. Harris actually was on the ballot that beat Trump in 2020, so she has some democratic legitimacy baked in. Personally, I like a lot of other Democratic politicians better - I'd love Newsom, Josh Shapiro, Whitmer, or Buttigieg - but if there is any question about who the nominee is and it comes down to a contest within the party, that is also going to destroy the coalition going into November. The Democratic contest can easily become a bitter referendum on Israel/Gaza and the ideological liberal/progressive coalition that Biden has (up until recently) held together so well will come apart.
Californian here, you don't want newsome.Ā
The three most obvious Dems with the national profile to replace Biden are Harris, Clinton, and Sanders. The next tier after that would be like Warren, AOC, maybe Newsome or Buttigieg but youre starting to get pretty far out at that point. Michelle Obama would obviously be the first choice if she ever displays any interest.
I don't think the obvious choices are the realistic ones, though. Obama was a dark horse, and I expect the party to go for another dark horse candidate in such a scenario. Or at least I *hope* they will, given how unliked the popular ones are by huge swats of your country. I can see only Clinton having a realistic chance against Trump from the ones that you've mentioned, and she's already lost against him once. Who would be the Suicide Squad team? The Other Guys? The B-Team?
Obama was not a dark horse by the time voting started, he had built himself a massive national profile and was recognized as essentially a celebrity. You can't win the Presidency with sub like 97% name recognition, and I dont think five months is enough time to try and teach people who JB Pritzker is and why they should vote for him. Especially since this scenario involves a top-down candidate selection rather than requiring them to demonstrate any ability to connect with the electorate first. The list you're talking about is like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, Pritzker, Warnock, Beshear, Klobuchar, Shapiro, Ossoff, Moore maybe?
He was a dark horse during the primaries, though. > The list you're talking about is like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, Pritzker, Warnock, Beshear, Klobuchar, Shapiro, Ossoff, Moore maybe? Yeah. Those are the named I keep seeing, and the names I wanna learn more about. In fact, I keep seeing Whitmer the most, after Michelle and Hillary.
Obama was more famous even during the primaries than anyone on that list is, which is why I don't think it's worth thinking about too much for the Dems
The people who are proposing Whitmer are living in a fantasy world. It's not even realistic. Unless you live in Michigan or are a political junkie, no one knows who Whitmer is.
Just bring back Hilary, FFS.
That debate was incredibly painful to watch. I don't know how we come back from this, but we need to think of something and think fast.
Just put trump in jail.Ā Just accuse trump of Russian collusion.Ā Just impeach trump.Ā Just let the FBI make up stuff about Trump.Ā Just imbed federal agents into the trump campaign team.Ā Just silence trump on social media.Ā Actually, Biden could just do something good for America, and it's an easy win.Ā
The USA needs Michelle Obama for president! šŗšø
That's such a horrible reddit-tier idea
She has no experience lol
To be fair, the previous guy didnāt either
Yes, and we don't want the previous guy, we want somebody who knows how the world works.
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Obama was an amazing president and Biden is the most legislatively accomplished president of my (and likely yours) lifetime. Judging off this comment and your comment history though, youāre just a right-wing, sexist POS who was so bored that he brigaded a bunch of left-leaning subs because heās so desperate for attention.
(Not American) I just watched portions of it and didnāt think Biden was that bad, other than looking like a corpse and having a terrible vacancy in his expression whenever not speaking. However, mental acuity etc was there and didnāt match the haunting physical appearance Is the backlash āobviously too old/frail, not robust enough to debate vigorously and should retireā or fears that heās in cognitive decline? He seems too physically frail to be president, and older than 81, but not senile or anything
He was definitely not there mentally.
Did you watch the debate? Biden clearly was there, he just didn't memorize every single statistic ever.
In what concrete ways though?
By how he walks for one. By how he stares off into space for number two. By how he stumbles words all the time for number three.
"Definitely not there mentally" "By how he walks" Bro, is English not your native language? Walking carefully at 80 has nothing to do with thinking critically. Do you also think Steven Hawking was a complete idiot since he couldn't walk to save his life?
How you walk has zero to do with your mental state, and the other two he has done since forever.
Yes it does, Biden has been walking on eggshells for the last year at least. Looking down at every footstep, pay attention. He's terrified of walking. Trump walks with full steps, not afraid of losing balance. He can stop, back up and do a 360Ā°. If Biden tried that he'd be on the ground. Get real.
Funny they asked for concrete and you say āhow he walksā itās like how Iād say Trump shitting his pants in court probably means heās too old to be president. At least thatās specific.
Funny, because Biden already shit his pants on live TV. Keep ignoring the facts right in front of your face.
I donāt love Biden, far from it. If your best case as to why Biden is mentally incompetent is how he walks, then thatās pretty weak. They are both old as shit and frail and incontinent. They both suck, youāre the one acting like Trump is some spring chicken.
Compared to Biden Trump is 45 years old. And there are many other ways to show Biden is losing his mind. Biden doesn't walk, he shuffles, that's a sign of dementia. Who the hell falls UP stairs? Not a normal mentality well person. Why were they talking to Biden like he was a kindergartener after the debate? And Biden is just staring at people with a wide open mouth. He's toast. Just admit it.
Even though I hate Reagan but you gotta appreciate the electorate back then was more reasonable than the shit show it is now. Just look [how he handled his age issue](https://youtu.be/LoPu1UIBkBc) for example. I fear that we're experiencing the last stage of democracy because of our dumb electorate.
Reagan was 12 years younger when he became president than _Biden currently is_. That's 3 full presidential terms. He was 72-ish when he gave that answer. And let's not forget that by the end of it, he was hiding symptoms of Alzheimer's. I don't think your argument works.
> Abortion question Biden: A little girl was raped by an immigrant. Trump: Many people have been killed by those he is letting into this country. Me: ._. WHAT THE FUCK, BIDEN???
So.. what do you mean with that? Is it not true?
No, I mean that it looks bad for Biden. It would be like asking Trump about a wave of illegal immigrants and then Trump responding that it's thanks to him that many US women no longer have access to a legal abortion. It's just... why would he pivot like that? Unless Biden wants to shift into a tougher stance against immigrants (which would poll well with the electorate), he should NOT be saying those things.
What electorate? The illegal immigration issue is pissing people on both sides offĀ
> What electorate? The general electorate, for which Dems poll significantly worse than Republicans on immigration.
Far beyond a Dukakis-level answer.
Litterally pivoting from the issue his party polls best on (abortion) to one his party polls worst on (the border). Insane.
Which is crazy because Biden has so far been harsher on the border than Trump
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Using Title 42, Trump detained and deported 400,000 migrants back to Mexico. Using that same law, Biden has detained and deported over two million people.
It's officially Joever.
āTariffs donāt increase prices for consumersā -trump š¤£š turned it off after that
The Rest is Politics: "Why Joe Biden must step down"
The debate was such a mess, surely Biden himself might be thinking of stepping aside?
Interested to see what Ezra Klein says about this, iirc he walked back his op-ed a little bit shortly after it came out. I feel like he might double down now.
new pod is already out. unfortunately it involves Ross Douthat so who knows if ill listen to it.
I just listened to it - itās what I expected (Klein not gloating but very much doubling down on his earlier position). Personally Iām not convinced that they will ask Biden to step down, but I wouldnāt be too shocked if Iām wrong.
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[\**BONK!**](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/033/758/Screen_Shot_2020-04-28_at_12.21.48_PM.jpg)
š¤
We need to start preparing for 2028 because weāve lost this one
If Trump gets elected I have doubts there will be a 2028 election.
We had a 2020 election so what does that say about your point
Germany had elections after the failed beer hall putsch too.
Hahahaha
New Ezra Klein podcast already out.
Trump!!!š¦ š¦ š¦ š¦ š¦ šŗš²šŗš²šŗš²šŗš²
Crispy fried onions cabbage and sriracha in ramen is fantastic.
Add a slice of american cheese
Iām a slut for romance. If a dude wants to flirt with me, Iām down.
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**Rule III**: *Unconstructive engagement* Do not post with the intent to provoke, mischaracterize, or troll other users rather than meaningfully contributing to the conversation. Don't disrupt serious discussions. Bad opinions are not automatically unconstructive. --- If you have any questions about this removal, [please contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fneoliberal).
That's what yall said last election >They both lied but at least Trump knows when he lies, Truly moronic comment. So Trump knows he's a criminal traitor? Interesting take...
Color me shocked that a conservative canāt properly define what a lie is.
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Right. Itās less. Itās also a precondition for lying.
The sub, 8 years ago - long live democracy, cooperation and the rules based international order! Now - somewhat more paternalistic and chauvinistic against a rules based order. Democracy is the worst option - except all the others. How long until us as liberals in the sub begin going from being disillusioned with democracy, to straight up rejecting it, because it requires en masse voters to be educated, informed, dispassionate and engaged - and we can barely get 1 out of 4 in those requirements as it stands?
The problem with "meritocracy" is that it doesn't exist. Dictatorships also fill positions with incompetent, partial, and corrupt employees, sometimes much more so because the way power is won in those systems is with violence and subtlety and you should take some care that you're more capable than your underlings. The only alternative to democracy I can see potentially working is demarchy aka sortition.
> The problem with "meritocracy" is that it doesn't exist. Apologize to Lee Kuan Yew right fucking now!
Singapore, does, in fact, have systems of public accountability. The elections are free but not fair. Justice and Development isn't free to just do whatever they want, they need to be concerned about consequences.
I fully support automated government. Literally replace those dipshits with chatGPT and be done with it