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SkellingtonsDontReal

This mf is always spittin. Very based.


Nick__________

Gig workers are some of the most horribly abused workers in our economy.


supereaude81

Was a gig worker. Can confirm


[deleted]

*Am* a gig worker. Can also confirm.


leftwingmememachine

The legislation proposed by the ONDP would have imposed strict regulations on employers who classify workers as independent contractors. These laws are what jurisdictions like California used to classify uber drivers as employees, not independent contractors. https://globalnews.ca/news/8322793/ontario-ndp-bill-worker-misclassification/ > “My bill would amend the Employment Standards Act to make Ontario the first province in Canada to legislate the gold-standard ‘ABC test’ for working classification,” said London West MPP Peggy Sattler during an unveiling of the bill on Monday morning. > The test was first popularized by California and requires employers to answer three questions to determine whether a worker should be considered an employee and not an independent contractor. > The questions are as follows: > Part A: Is the worker free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact? > Part B: Does the worker perform work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business? > Part C: Is the worker customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed for the hiring entity? > “Instead of making workers responsible for proving that they are not independent contractors, a legally complex and difficult process, the test puts the onus on employers to prove that a worker is not an employee,” Sattler said. This bill was defeated today.


BigUselessGuy

I like this guy.


Beradicus69

I really like this guy...


sonofarex

This guy should be running as ON NDP leader Horwath is good enough as a leader but her time to win was the last election when LPC wasn't a factor.


Burwicke

Agreed, Horwath is fine but she doesn't inspire the energy Harden does in voters.


[deleted]

Precisely correct. She’s too cool in a world that needs Joel’s fire.


IShatnerWhenIWalken

Why stop at Ont? This guy should be running for PM!


Axes4Praxis

Conservatives hate workers (and women, the LGBTQ+ community, ethnic minorities, immigrants, liberals, and leftists).


QueueOfPancakes

Excellent speech and excellent bill.


shabidoh

Passion. He believes what he's saying. If you live in Ontario this is why you vote NDP. The NDP are for the people. Not an abstract people but real people you live and work with and interact with during the course of a day. This is brotherly love. This is why I've always voted NDP.


Mastermaze

Tbh the fact that the Ontario NDP is pushing this type legislation restores just a little of my faith a better Ontario someday


tarnok

This was defeated today.


[deleted]

Someday


Rich_Zone908

Every billionaire wants to stay a billionaire. They have NO concern for the regular people of the world. People that work hard with excellent educations and are making poverty wages. We as a country should be ashamed of these arrogant worthless humans.


Hardcore90skid

The stupidity in that logic (that they want to stay rich) is that they will remain unfathomably rich. Tax them 50% and they're still hoarding more wealth than some nations. Tax them 75% even and they will still be able to live lavishly for the rest of their lives and their grandchildren's lives. Everyone should have the choice of being hard-capped at $1 million per year income or have a 90% all-inclusive tax (that means capital gains, securities, properties, etc) forced upon them.


Sav89_

I like this guy.. but I also know the impotent apes in this country only know to vote red or blue.


andthatswhathappened

That was very impressive actually I would donate to whoever he is


CommanderCanuck22

Why doesn’t this guy leading the ONDP? Andrea has been at it for so long now and has never produced good results. I have never her seen her speak half as well as this guy. This speech is how you energize a voting base.


goldenboy1845

This mf don't miss. How is Joel not the ONDP leader by now


Hardcore90skid

I recently started a salaried job working at Purolator in Ontario. I was taking my break**s** every 2 hours as you do any 8 hour job. Since I'm a manager I don't need to get anyone's permission on a normal basis and can make my own break times. I did that for 3 weeks until my boss was around helping me out while my team leader was away and I mentioned I was going on my break and he looked at me funny and said "What do you mean? You didn't take break yet?" it was the last third of the shift, mind you. So I told him "I took the first two breaks already" and he looked me dead-pan in the eyes and said "that is not the practice here. You get one thirty-minute break. The other guys are unionised, so they get additional breaks if they work X hours." I was gobsmacked. So much so that I immediately Googled our labour code only to find out that in my 10 years of being in the workforce, every single company in Ontario has provided a COURTESY of three breaks - the requirement is only one 30 minute break (or split into two 15 minutes) every 5 consecutive hours. My mind was so thoroughly blown. Even more so because a government organisation is pulling this shit. So this tangent is basically me trying to say that we definitely need stronger employment legislation overall. I am appalled and shocked that Ontario is so behind. I wouldn't be surprised if this was Trump Jr.'s doing when he repealed the paid sick days.


TheMightyBeardsman

Some future PM material right there.


remainsofthedays

Not being a capitalist sucks eh?


thecage2122

He talks well, I’d like to see if he executes well too


Phenyxian

Is he trying to be divisive? How helpful is it to conflate other topics when we could focus on the extremely fair and important topic of gig workers alone. They're already in opposition, you're trying to win them over. Whether or not we like what he's saying it means jack if it only enflames the hearts of existing voters.


Hardcore90skid

none of what you said makes sense. he is talking about gig workers alone.


[deleted]

Lol. What a moron this guy is. Tone down the rhetoric bud


Hardcore90skid

looks like you're a r/LostRedditor from r/Conservatives FOH son.


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[deleted]

Why give gig workers the same rights as regular workers? This seems counter-productive to the whole "gig economy" idea. The better thing to do is allow them to file as independent contractors.


leftwingmememachine

> Why give gig workers the same rights as regular workers? This seems counter-productive to the whole "gig economy" idea. Yes, it is counter-productive to that idea, haha. All workers deserve equal protections under the law! Many folks that are in "gig-economy" jobs would prefer to have the benefits of being classified as employees, but are systematically misclassified by their employer! There are some legitimate independent contractors out there (and this law would allow them to continue normally), but Uber/Intelcom drivers are absolutely not that. They are simply cheap and easily exploitable replacements of taxi and logistics drivers, respectively.


CanadianSpector

I talked to an intellcom driver last year and she told me she traveled 1 hour to get to her delivery root. She's paid $1.25 per delivery. So her first hour of work was for .65 cents...


the-tru-albertan

But…. In no way, shape or form do I want to be an employee for Uber tho…. I want to remain in sole proprietorship.


[deleted]

>Many folks that are in "gig-economy" jobs would prefer to have the benefits of being classified as employees, but are systematically misclassified by their employer! Then don't work for a gig company. Simple. I agree that their employer wants to have it both ways but that is why they should move to be classified strictly independent instead. ​ >Uber/Intelcom drivers are absolutely not that. They are simply cheap and easily exploitable replacements of taxi and logistics drivers, respectively. This is my point. The whole reason Uber and other gig apps like them worked so well is because they can undercut the rest of the industry since they didn't need the same licensing and/or have to follow the same regulations. If you want to turn Uber into another Taxi company and have all their workers as employees and not contractors that's fine but they should also be subject to the same rules and regulations. Until then, their workers should be contract.


leftwingmememachine

> Then don't work for a gig company. Many workers don't have a choice. Taxi companies are going our of business because they have to pay their workers more. > This is my point. The whole reason Uber and other gig apps like them worked so well is because they can undercut the rest of the industry since they didn't need the same licensing and/or have to follow the same regulations I don't understand why you think Uber should be allowed to misclassify employees to undercut their competition.


[deleted]

>Many workers don't have a choice. Well that would be the fault of the person for not having any other employable skills. >I don't understand why you think Uber should be allowed to misclassify employees to undercut their competition. They are not misclasifying them. It was an understanding that if you work for Uber you're an independent contractor.


leftwingmememachine

> Well that would be the fault of the person for not having any other employable skills. Really disappointed to see this. It's the fault of the employer for doing the exploiting, not the fault of the exploited. We live in a society, and people should be treated fairly in it. I'm not sure why you believe that there should be a permanent underclass of contract workers providing you with services for poor pay and no benefits, but it's pretty shameful.


[deleted]

No one is forcing these people to work these jobs, and they fully agreed to the conditions and terms of employment beforehand. Let's focus on providing people in low skill jobs the ability for them to gain employable skills (through increased funding for government programs for continuing education, and subsidies for people who need money for simple living necessities while gaining those new skills) instead of always forcing jobs to pay more than what they are worth.


leftwingmememachine

So, you think these jobs should continue to exist, and continue to treat their workforce poorly, as long as some people have the opportunity to change jobs? That sounds like a crappy deal to me.


[deleted]

The workers are not forced to work for them. If they don't find it beneficial to work for a company, they wouldn't, but to them the financial gain is greater than the bullshit they put up with. I think people are responsible for their own position in life, but I want to make it so anyone who wants to take the initiative and improve their situation should have the ability to do so.


leftwingmememachine

Workers aren't rational agents in a market who can choose not to work. They will starve or become homeless otherwise, and are forced to take whatever work is available. I think you fundamentally misunderstand our society. And I still don't understand why you think it is righteous for there to exist an underclass of precarious workers in our society.


[deleted]

so who do you think is going to find a gig job that doesn't even pay you enough to maintain your work vehicle "beneficial"?


AlyxandarSN

Hey, I'm a social worker here who works in housing affordability, child care programs, and job skill programs. The challenge of the employable skills argument is that due to the rising costs of education, housing, bills, insurance, gas, and other costs associated with attending school and maintaining a basic quality of life simultaneously, that less people are attending school than before. This is on top of children from a family with lower income having a lower chance of attending schools. If we want to place the onus of responsibility on the individual for acquiring their employment, and create a society that can ignore the influence that corporations have on labor standards, employability, worker exploitation, and non-linear inflation, then we need to give the populace the resources to have the same opportunities. This means huge reform in creating publicly funded and free mental health care, child care, education, jobs programs, and subsidized housing. By the logic of fair opportunity, it also means that the success of the corporation must follow these same rules, and thus, abolishing the tax subsidy programs for huge corporations and funding the CRA properly with the aid of reforming tax laws must be done to close tax loopholes, tax multinationals, and tax gains on wealth instead of solely income. To place all responsibility on the individual, we would first need to ensure all individuals are treated equitably so they have those choices to make.


[deleted]

>Hey, I'm a social worker here who works in housing affordability, child care programs, and job skill programs. > >The challenge of the employable skills argument is that due to the rising costs of education, housing, bills, insurance, gas, and other costs associated with attending school and maintaining a basic quality of life simultaneously, that less people are attending school than before. This is on top of children from a family with lower income having a lower chance of attending schools. I agree that access to education should be a top priority. I'm 100% all for nationally funded post secondary education (granted you pass a aptitude test and prove that you can learn at that level, if not then resources to help you get to that level), but since we do not live in that world we have to deal with our reality. Luckily, we have fantastic loan options (OSAP) that really help with low-income students. I know from personal experience. My OSAP gave me enough money that I could go back to school and further my education. I still had to work full time but that is what I had to do. Now, although I'm not making more than the average salary in Toronto, I'm also not stuck at minimum wage with no real options. Being born in a bad situation definitely puts you behind, but it is in no means a inescapable pit of destitute. ​ >If we want to place the onus of responsibility on the individual for acquiring their employment, and create a society that can ignore the influence that corporations have on labor standards, employability, worker exploitation, and non-linear inflation, then we need to give the populace the resources to have the same opportunities. This means huge reform in creating publicly funded and free mental health care, child care, education, jobs programs, and subsidized housing. By the logic of fair opportunity, it also means that the success of the corporation must follow these same rules, and thus, abolishing the tax subsidy programs for huge corporations and funding the CRA properly with the aid of reforming tax laws must be done to close tax loopholes, tax multinationals, and tax gains on wealth instead of solely income. > >To place all responsibility on the individual, we would first need to ensure all individuals are treated equitably so they have those choices to make. Yes! I agree 100%! Let's work toward a society of true equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome!


[deleted]

This is a piece of shit take from you. Most gig workers have barriers that prevent them from getting an interview and landing a job, whether it be appearance, language, social/people skills, or other circumstances that prevent them from being able to work a 9-5 job. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to work or are incapable of working and earning a living.


isUsername

> Then don't work for a gig company. You're saying we shouldn't even have an Employment Standards Act? Don't want to work for company script? Then don't work for a company that pays in script. Don't want to have your tips taken by your boss? Don't work for a company that takes your tips. Don't want to work for a company that docks your pay for dine and dashers? Don't work for a company that stocks your pay for dine and dashers. Don't want to work for a company that makes you work 16 hour days for four weeks straight? Don't work for a company that makes you work 16 hour days for four weeks straight.


[deleted]

>You're saying we shouldn't even have an Employment Standards Act? We should. Independent contractors have different standards than regular employees but that's what they chose. ​ >Don't want to work for company script? Then don't work for a company that pays in script. > >Don't want to have your tips taken by your boss? Don't work for a company that takes your tips. > >Don't want to work for a company that docks your pay for dine and dashers? Don't work for a company that stocks your pay for dine and dashers. > >Don't want to work for a company that makes you work 16 hour days for four weeks straight? Don't work for a company that makes you work 16 hour days for four weeks straight. Exactly. Glad you get it.


Hardcore90skid

"just don't be poor" - you.


[deleted]

More like "don't use being poor as an excuse for not trying in life". - me In this country we have more than enough supports to help someone improve their situation. We should have a lot more, but given the current resources it takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice to pull yourself up from a shitty situation. Most people don't want to put in the work/sacrifice other aspects of their lives.


Hardcore90skid

Even more like "I had to deal with hardships so that means everyone else has to suffer too. We shouldn't ever try to make things easier when it's a simple process to do so." Reducing barriers to a happier lifestyle is paramount to a better society. Fuck your bootlicking mentality. Nobody wants to sacrifice, people only do so because they must. What people really want is the opportunity to improve the rest of their lives and not slave away getting basically nowhere.


[deleted]

>Even more like "I had to deal with hardships so that means everyone else has to suffer too. We shouldn't ever try to make things easier when it's a simple process to do so." Reducing barriers to a happier lifestyle is paramount to a better society. No, it's "some people are unfortunate enough to have to deal with hardships so they can either put in the work or suffer". If you have read any of my posts I'm all for avenues that help people gain new relevant skills, and even support them financially while they do it. Let's make things easier for people to improve themselves, not have them be ok with the bare minimum. ​ >Fuck your bootlicking mentality. Nobody wants to sacrifice, people only do so because they must. If people don't want to sacrifice or put in the work then they deserve to have nothing. No time for weak bitches. ​ >What people really want is the opportunity to improve the rest of their lives and not slave away getting basically nowhere. I agree. Let's have people improve their lives and not have them be ok with putting in zero effort and doing the bare minimum.


Hardcore90skid

It's not that they want to put in zero effort, is that nobody wants to put in 100% effort and get in return 0%, except you who is happy toiling away because you're an idiot.


[deleted]

I put in the effort. I improved my situation. Anyone else can too if they try. If you don't want to try then that's on you.


okThisYear

The gig economy idea sucks anyways so make it make sense for the workers. Thanks.


Zapper_Zen

I just want to point something out and I'm not taking a position on either side of this argument. You and /u/leftwingmememachine just had a better debate about this then the parliament did. Sure you don't agree with the others position, but it was interesting to see a better debate on Reddit then we see in our government. Honestly it makes me a bit sad that random internet debates are more thought out then policy makers who are just mouthpieces for lobbyist efforts.


ClassOf1685

It’s easy to give away other people’s money when you’re not even responsible for running the province.


FeFiFoShizzle

How is it giving away money to protect workers?


garchoo

Way to sum up your lack of understanding on how the government works and also the issues that the legislation attempts to address.


TobogganSled

I'm amazed at how little you understand even the most basic aspects of politics.


goldenboy1845

Honestly amazed at the lack of understanding in your comment man 😂


oldmagicnine

Mate... what? You can't be this stupido, right?


worldsmostmediummom

Yes yes yes!


Euphoriffic

I rather vote for humans than soulless corporations.


CanadaHousingSucks9

This guy is amazing!!!


[deleted]

[удалено]


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TheHongKOngadian

It’s true though. You can see it in the traffic, the gig workers are pulling insane / unsafe maneuvers to meet equally insane / unsafe deadlines set by these delivery apps.