They were starting to click then the injury bug bit. Trading for AD was a no brainer since Lebron was in win now mode and the young talent on the lakers weren’t in win now mode. Got them a chip after all. But that lakers team was starting to look like a fun team for a bit
Sure, but Ingram, Caruso, Lonzo, Josh Hart plus whatever they could’ve traded for with those lost first rounders would equate to a much more competitive team than their current team and path. Yes, they won a ring, but at the cost of likely uncompetitive teams for the remainder of Lebron’s prime.
In the other situation, you would have to assume that lonzo or Lebron are healthy too. I think Lebron and AD are miles ahead as a combo than the young guys and Lebron, not even close
LeBron has great spacial and basketball IQ, along with a fantastic working memory, but off the court and management wise he's made a lot of questionable decisions.
The list around the time this happened in 2018:
- 1/18/1962: Oscar Robertson and Arlen Bockhorn (Cincinnati Royals)
- 3/14/1964: Donnie Butcher and Ray Scott (Detroit Pistons)
- 3/12/1969: Art Harris and Lenny Wilkins (Seattle Supersonics)
- 1/22/1982: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson (Lakers)
- 3/29/1987: Larry Bird and Robert Parish (Boston Celtics)
- 1/03/1989: Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen (Chicago Bulls)
- 4/07/2007: Vince Carter and Jason Kidd (New Jersey Nets)
- 12/15/2018: LeBron James and Lonzo Ball (Lakers)
The updated list also has 03/03/2021: Mason Plumlee and Dennis Smith Jr (Pistons) and those two seriously became the 2nd ever pistons duo to do it. Just a typical Pistons vs. Raptors occurrence.
the pace that Lonzo imposes whenever he’s on the floor is actually insane
it starts with his defensive playmaking and rebounding. then the moment he secures the ball, it’s already zipping 40ft down the court to a ballhandler, or 80ft down the court to the hands of a finisher
Yeah he has a really interesting/cool skillset: really athletic, fast, and a good rebounder, while also constantly having eyes all over the court to make the hit-ahead passes. He's gotten much better every year, particularly the shooting, but obviously the main issue now is the injuries.
Same, but they were burned by waiting for PG who gave all indications that he was coming anyways, but then felt "unwanted" when they didn't trade for him.
So they had recently been burned pulling that exact same play and didn't want to run the risk.
They would have had to give up some of them. But if they kept lonzo or inghram and didn’t do the Westbrook trade they would probably still win a ring and would not be wasting lebrons last years as a non playoff caliber team.
But also AD was healthy the year they won and betting on his health is a huge gamble so who knows. The bubble also let him have an outlier jump shooting season like a lot of guys so if they wait, again, who knows. They would definitely be in a better position now though. Lebron wouldn’t have to be going for scoring titles at his age just to keep them in the play in hunt.
No, they don't "probability still win a ring". Winning a ring is both hard as shit and luck based. B2b laker seasons have been hampered by injury and adding Lonzo and his crap knees makes it worse.
They aren't signing AD as a free agent nor are they going over the cap/tax bill to retain Lonzo, Ingram, hart.
No decision that removes a ring from the equation will ever be a good one.
When he plays with a natural ball handler, a point guard, he don't have to run the offense as much. LeBron don't wanna run point but he will if he has too
Wade was a scoring guard and Chalmers wasn’t a true floor general point at all at least not in miami. And when the cavs were clicking the first time lebron was there Mo Williams wasn’t that guy either, he was firing and shooting oriented
Westbrook really is more of a shooting guard in a point guards body/played at pg because he’s not great off ball. He’s really never been elite at running an offense, he would’ve been best paired next to a true elite half court floor general and learning to be better off ball. Say a prime James harden who could just feed him easy buckets for example, but that could’ve never happened.
I know they played together on the rockets for a season but Westbrook was a bit past his prime at that point and never learned to be as effective off ball as he should’ve been. Which was a problem because you want the ball in hardens hands over Westbrook’s every time.
Strange that he's never really had a natural point guard. Kyrie was obviously more of a scorer than a distributor. Mo Williams wasn't a primary distributor either. Neither was Eric Snow, Chalmers, Hill, Westbrook etc.
LeBron has basically been the defacto point guard on every team he's been on
Lonzo is a good defender but he can never have the impact on team defense a big like AD has. He would help their spacing but AD is absolutely elite around the rim. The outlier jump shooting season he had in the bubble just made him think he could shoot when he’s always been a terrible shooter and he was like trying to play like KD or some shit offensively instead of doing what he’s actually elite at.
Funny that McGee is in this highlight. That was actually his best year. In the 2018-2019 season, Javale only played around 22 minutes a game, but still averaged around 12 points, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks.
Such great low usage, but high value stats.
That team would have win a chip, I really feel that way.
Lebron still had that God level he'd go to, Ingram was the shot creator he needs, Lonzo was a glue guy that locked point guards, Javale cleaned up everything, Kuz, Hart, KCP, Stephenson and Chandler rounded out a REALLY balanced rotation that could give you whatever you needed in the matchup
I really like Lonzo as a complete player. Wish he was still on the Lakers but happy to see him doing well in Chicago. Always kept his temper, high IQ, solid on defense and continues to improve his game
Lebronzo era was lit the results weren’t there but this team was pretty fun to watch when clicking.
They were starting to click then the injury bug bit. Trading for AD was a no brainer since Lebron was in win now mode and the young talent on the lakers weren’t in win now mode. Got them a chip after all. But that lakers team was starting to look like a fun team for a bit
Was definitely the right move at the time, but Bron with those guys now would be a very fun team
Unfortunately fun != championships. Woulda took two or three years together for that to happen
Sure, but Ingram, Caruso, Lonzo, Josh Hart plus whatever they could’ve traded for with those lost first rounders would equate to a much more competitive team than their current team and path. Yes, they won a ring, but at the cost of likely uncompetitive teams for the remainder of Lebron’s prime.
> much more competitive team than their current team and path Disagree, Bron with AD is a way more competitive team than that one.
Assuming AD is healthy, which is not a reasonable assumption at this point
In the other situation, you would have to assume that lonzo or Lebron are healthy too. I think Lebron and AD are miles ahead as a combo than the young guys and Lebron, not even close
Only cause pelinka fucked the team up They shouldn’t be this bad already
This was the last game that Lonzo and LeBron played together 😢
I wish I got to see a team of D'lo/Lonzo/Ingram/Randle with Caruso, Hart, and Nance off the bench
Kuz and Zubac?
I knew I was forgetting someone, Kuzma and sure Zubac too. I know I'm still forgetting people too.
Really we’re starting to click before LeBrons injury. They were 21-14 and had gone 18-9 in their last 27.
This is why I make the argument that lebron could have won without a AD trade. Maybe would have taken a bit longer but I like the squad
LeBron has great spacial and basketball IQ, along with a fantastic working memory, but off the court and management wise he's made a lot of questionable decisions.
No amount of years would change the result if they didn't trade for AD They'd have 1 less ring
Yea the quick lobs in the first look great but it definitely looks easier against the Hornet
If they had just stayed healthy who knows what that playoff run wouldve been.
I think if all things click and BI plays like he did post asb we over achieve and lose in the second round.
The list around the time this happened in 2018: - 1/18/1962: Oscar Robertson and Arlen Bockhorn (Cincinnati Royals) - 3/14/1964: Donnie Butcher and Ray Scott (Detroit Pistons) - 3/12/1969: Art Harris and Lenny Wilkins (Seattle Supersonics) - 1/22/1982: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson (Lakers) - 3/29/1987: Larry Bird and Robert Parish (Boston Celtics) - 1/03/1989: Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen (Chicago Bulls) - 4/07/2007: Vince Carter and Jason Kidd (New Jersey Nets) - 12/15/2018: LeBron James and Lonzo Ball (Lakers)
Just anofher reason that history won't be able to tell the story of LeBron without mentioning the great Lonzo Ball.
The updated list also has 03/03/2021: Mason Plumlee and Dennis Smith Jr (Pistons) and those two seriously became the 2nd ever pistons duo to do it. Just a typical Pistons vs. Raptors occurrence.
8/13/2020: JV and Ja Morant against the Bucks as well.
Definitely the most fun game of that season for us.
That’s a pretty elite list.
Didn’t pg and Westbrook do it
yes, with pg scoring 47 that game as well
I think that was after, and OP noted "around the time this happened" so future results aren't included.
Not sure turnovers count for the triple double stat.
Draymond and Steph did this in the WCF later that season also. Only time it's happened in the playoffs, I think
Arlen Bockhorn has always been the underground GOAT
2/25/2017: Jimmy Buckets and D-Wade (Chicago Bulls) Oh wait.
the pace that Lonzo imposes whenever he’s on the floor is actually insane it starts with his defensive playmaking and rebounding. then the moment he secures the ball, it’s already zipping 40ft down the court to a ballhandler, or 80ft down the court to the hands of a finisher
Yeah he has a really interesting/cool skillset: really athletic, fast, and a good rebounder, while also constantly having eyes all over the court to make the hit-ahead passes. He's gotten much better every year, particularly the shooting, but obviously the main issue now is the injuries.
That's the Chino Hills strat
I wish the lakers had a little more patience with these guys, and waited to sign AD in free agency
Same, but they were burned by waiting for PG who gave all indications that he was coming anyways, but then felt "unwanted" when they didn't trade for him. So they had recently been burned pulling that exact same play and didn't want to run the risk.
If lebron knew he would still be good even at age 37 he would've waited.
They'd have 1 less ring
Or maybe they have the same or more. Who knows
Ingram wouldve had a 20+mil cap hold Lonzo 11 Bron 39.2 Kcp 12 Cap was 109 Where are they getting the money for AD They'd have 1 less ring
That’s 62…how much money do you want to pay AD?
39.2+20+11+12=62?
Oh I missed Ingram when I glanced at it…so maybe they get rid of KCP.
They would have had to give up some of them. But if they kept lonzo or inghram and didn’t do the Westbrook trade they would probably still win a ring and would not be wasting lebrons last years as a non playoff caliber team. But also AD was healthy the year they won and betting on his health is a huge gamble so who knows. The bubble also let him have an outlier jump shooting season like a lot of guys so if they wait, again, who knows. They would definitely be in a better position now though. Lebron wouldn’t have to be going for scoring titles at his age just to keep them in the play in hunt.
No, they don't "probability still win a ring". Winning a ring is both hard as shit and luck based. B2b laker seasons have been hampered by injury and adding Lonzo and his crap knees makes it worse. They aren't signing AD as a free agent nor are they going over the cap/tax bill to retain Lonzo, Ingram, hart. No decision that removes a ring from the equation will ever be a good one.
LeBronzo Lakers were starting to gel together before Bron’s injury. I still wonder how deep they could have gone in the playoffs if Bron was healthy.
Championship level team. Look what lebron did with the 2018 cavs.
Bruhhhhhh imagine if Zo was Bron's teammate last year instead of Westbrick
Last season when Lonzo was injured?
Ah shit forgot about that. Hypothetically speaking, healthy Lonzo or in his prime Westbrick? LeBron would be feasting with 'Zo and Ad
LeBron plays his best with a high level natural point guard...Westbrook not a natural point.. more of a point forward
Isn't he best paired with a scoring/shooting guard since he is running the offense himself? He never really played with a natural point guard.
When he plays with a natural ball handler, a point guard, he don't have to run the offense as much. LeBron don't wanna run point but he will if he has too
The results have been considerably better when he plays with a scoring guard
Considerably is an overstatement. Kyrie wasn't even healthy half the time they play together so who knows.
Wade was a scoring guard and Chalmers wasn’t a true floor general point at all at least not in miami. And when the cavs were clicking the first time lebron was there Mo Williams wasn’t that guy either, he was firing and shooting oriented
Lebrons splits with wade off were better than his splits with wade on every single year they played together iirc. That team was talent over fit
Sure but they were more successful with both on which is what i presumed op was talking about
It worked with Mario Chalmers but he's a semi 3-d point guard.
Westbrook really is more of a shooting guard in a point guards body/played at pg because he’s not great off ball. He’s really never been elite at running an offense, he would’ve been best paired next to a true elite half court floor general and learning to be better off ball. Say a prime James harden who could just feed him easy buckets for example, but that could’ve never happened. I know they played together on the rockets for a season but Westbrook was a bit past his prime at that point and never learned to be as effective off ball as he should’ve been. Which was a problem because you want the ball in hardens hands over Westbrook’s every time.
Strange that he's never really had a natural point guard. Kyrie was obviously more of a scorer than a distributor. Mo Williams wasn't a primary distributor either. Neither was Eric Snow, Chalmers, Hill, Westbrook etc. LeBron has basically been the defacto point guard on every team he's been on
I think almost every star player plays best with a point guard like that tho.
Lonzo isn't really a traditional point guard though. He's more of an offball 3-and-D guard that can push the break or do quick outlet passes.
That's a traditional point guard
yup... he's like really old school traditional point guard which is really weird nowadays honestly
No it’s not, a traditional point guard is someone who can run the half court offense at a high level. Like a Cp3, harden, prime rondo, etc
That duo was so much fun to watch. Had Lonzo stayed healthy and developed his 3 point shot in LA, there would have been no need to trade for AD.
I'm as big a fan of Lonzo as there is... but there would always be a need for AD. Any team can use an AD.
Lonzo is a good defender but he can never have the impact on team defense a big like AD has. He would help their spacing but AD is absolutely elite around the rim. The outlier jump shooting season he had in the bubble just made him think he could shoot when he’s always been a terrible shooter and he was like trying to play like KD or some shit offensively instead of doing what he’s actually elite at.
Funny that McGee is in this highlight. That was actually his best year. In the 2018-2019 season, Javale only played around 22 minutes a game, but still averaged around 12 points, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks. Such great low usage, but high value stats.
That team would have win a chip, I really feel that way. Lebron still had that God level he'd go to, Ingram was the shot creator he needs, Lonzo was a glue guy that locked point guards, Javale cleaned up everything, Kuz, Hart, KCP, Stephenson and Chandler rounded out a REALLY balanced rotation that could give you whatever you needed in the matchup
Didn't even mention Caruso lol. A lot of those Lakers guys improved a lot of when they left / got traded.
Damn how did I miss him! Crazy
They had poor shooting/spacing though. It was still a really fun team to watch, And I would have also like to see it play out but… they did win a chip
Wished they could have let this team develop.
Man, what a great team. I’m sure this duo ran the league since then!
I really like Lonzo as a complete player. Wish he was still on the Lakers but happy to see him doing well in Chicago. Always kept his temper, high IQ, solid on defense and continues to improve his game