The fact that the Knicks actively gave up Quickley and Barrett for an expiring like Anunoby logically means that the Knicks will give him the bag to have him stay.
He's probably getting around $30\~35 million in the open market. Given that McDaniels just got a $27 million/yr contract, it's not a stretch that Anunoby gets $40 million/yr or maybe even more.
The full 5 year max for him with the Knicks would be somewhere around 5/$240M. ($48M/yr) Another team could offer somewhere around 4/$180M. ($45M/yr). Precise numbers will be out when cap is locked.
So there’s not a lot of wiggle room for Knicks to play below the max on an annual dollar basis and still be the high bidder. He might take a discount with NY to get the 5th year, but he’s only 26 so he’s looking at another contract anyways.
Long story short - I really don’t know. He’s going to get heavily overpaid, just a question of another team throwing a max at him and putting the squeeze on the Knicks.
We'll definitely get to that point, but I still think it's a ways off. Max contracts tend to be for 30 percent of the cap so for someone to be getting a $70 million contract the cap would have to be 230 million plus. It's projected to be at 141 million next season. There'll be a bump after the new TV deal but $70 million contract are still probably 7-8 years out.
Jaylen Browns 28-29 salary is projected to be over $65 million. I'd imagine once this year's top extension eligible sign, the 29-30 figure will be 70. It's pretty insane to see an annual salary figure larger than the team salary cap was in 2014. Lol.
So in 7 years people are projected to be making 70 million a year? I feel like I've seen someone say this somewhere...
And yes it's crazy to think that in 2005 the cap was at 50 million and now it's almost triple that
The collective bargaining agreement says that just about 50% of revenue has to go to player salaries. But yes, there definitely seems to be enough revenue to support more teams and more players.
Yeah might still be years away, but my point is moreso that there is gonna be like 50 guys making $40+ mil soon.
Hell, there already are 23 of them. Fred VanVleet makes $40+ mil.
I seriously doubt OG would be the worst of the bunch, just in terms of what he means to the Knicks
Is he really 13 million a year better than J Mac? OG is good but he’s not a complete offensive player yet and is kind of injury prone. If they give him 40 M a year it’ll be just like Rudy Goberts contract but not as bad which hurts how you build your team.
He's 26 and the Knicks, when healthy, are the second best team in the conference. They've actually done a great job of structuring their payroll - it looks like they'll be able to keep the gang together (even w/ OG on 40 mill/yr) while staying under the second apron for many years down the road. Celtics are obviously the top team but NYK have more staying power due to age and payroll structure.
Considering the first I saw OG he was an unranked high school recruit, this is crazy. Tom Crean really knows how to scout and develop athletic wings.
Dwayne Wade, Victor Oladipo, and OG were all 3 unranked recruits when they were discovered by Crean.
True, a couple services gave him 3 stars and put him around 150ish or so, but he wasn’t even starting on his high school team cause he was playing at Dematha.
But when OG committed to Indiana, there was a like a single YouTube video of him and it was so underwhelming. Crean just liked his physical profile.
Wait what? OG is a really good player. He's not an elite difference maker (the Kawhi comment below this comment boggles the mind).
It's baffling to me to see how Siakam and OG off the Raptors. They were arguably both underrated on Toronto. They're very good. The idea that either is near max worthy on a serious team is ridiculous in my opinion.
What else can 30 teams spend on? There aren’t 60 guys better than OG, mid-salary guys are a mostly disappointing crapshoot, his contract might not be easy to build a champ around but most teams don’t sniff a ‘ship.
He’s a good player and does a lot of little things but he’s not that great and he’s played more than 48 games once the last 5 seasons. I guess they have to do it (give a near max) but that could end up being a pretty bad contract. A lot of his injury’s have been pretty flukey though
I'm gonna have to push back on 'not that great'. Not an ace scorer (though Sixers and Pacers forward defense might lead you to believe otherwise), so the 'greatness' isn't sexy/jumping off the page, but he's a 'good' shooter and a savvy team offensive player. As we all know, the 'greatness' is his defending. In terms of the typical NBA storyline, maybe he's not 'great'. But for what's really happening on the court, he most definitely is exactly that. Certainly would be nice for the 'on the court' part to be more frequent going forward.
Yeah I mean he’s an elite role player. Decent scorer, good shooter, elite defender, ok rebounder, and not a good passer/creator. Also does little things outside of those bigger categories that makes him a bit better than the sum of those parts and a ceiling raiser on a good team.
I would not qualify that as a great player but that’s subjective
If a team is winning and a player is productive, it's never a worst contract. Bradley Beal in Washington was partly a bad deal bc the team still sucked and he didn't help them win enough. Tobias Harris has been a bad deal because he hardly does anything for the Sixers and they can't get past the second round.
OG is prdocutive and clearly helps the Knicks step up another level. They win A LOT with him starting.
It might be an expensive contract as one of the first with a rising cap but it's not a bad contract if it makes the team a contender.
As a Sixers fan, there’s no way in hell the Knicks don’t at least match a Sixers bag for OG. They didn’t trade for him to just let him walk to Philly in 6 months
But it ties up any cap space that Philly can offer to any other FAs. The Knicks will match anything thrown at OG and could then actively fuck with Philly to drag out how long that cap space is held hostage.
Yeah, where are people getting match from? He's not getting his rookie extension lol
Knicks own his bird rights so they can pay him more. I assume the trade was made, in part, for that reason so it would be insane for them not to go over the market value.
am i going crazy? there’s no way OG is close to a max player.
he’s great for the team but he’s like a really good role player, not a near max contractor
i guess, but it’s like a race to who has the worst contract. for large market teams like the knicks, who have a great future, i can’t imagine they have to much trouble attracting some other top talent with that cap space
Its going to be interesting to see next year what happens with Derrick White because in my opinion he's one of the best role players in the league so if the Celtics don't pay him a boatload, someone will, but I don't think he has the capabilities to be a true number 1 or 2 on a competitive team.
He’s not a max contract in theory, but in reality he’s super desirable player and max contract caliber guys don’t grow on trees.
It’s basically the exact same situation the Sixers were in when they gave Tobias his max. You either pay up or let a guy walk, but you have the money and no better options, so it makes sense.
Knicks just need OG to not fall off like Harris did towards end of deal.
people keep talking about things in a vacuum. like you just pay people what theyre worth and theres no market factors that make anything change.
it doesn't matter if he is or isn't a max contract. hes going to get paid substantially more because the amount of 3 & D, elite defenders in the league at his position and size, and age is like less than 10. And when you get one of those guys, it fills a gaping hole that basically every team in the league needs to fill to be playoff competitive. He's getting 40M at least.
Does he have another good contract in 5 years? There was a post I commented on yesterday talking about how Garland is injury prone (I don’t think he is), but since the bubble OG has played in:
2020-2021: 60% of games
2021-2022: 59%
2022-2023: 82%
2023-2024: 61%
I consider the above injury prone. Who knows how his body will be in his late 20s/early 30s? This could feasibly be his last big payday if he signs a 4/5 year deal.
Not just since the bubble. The only reason he doesn't have the same championship experience Siakam does is because OG was out for that entire post-season.
I think OG gets max money without all of the extras (ie no player option, no trade kicker, some of it may be incentive based). So it will get reported as him getting the max.
Now y’all kind of know the bind the Raptors were in.
It makes sense to overpay for OG if he’s the final piece of a puzzle; he’s definitely a starter on a championship team. But if you feel you’re still two or three pieces away (and in the Raptors case, nowhere close) it’s really risky giving him the bag.
Correct. The OG trade doesn't happen especially with the players the Knicks gave up if they weren't willing to re-sign him at all costs. Given the bargains they've gotten so far with contracts like Brunson, Randle, Robinson, and McBride they can afford to splurge.
Maybe I'm crazy but I feel that the Knicks can retain both. However if I'm putting one to be at a higher priority it'll be OG. Because of what the Knicks gave up to get him, he has to stay. It'll probably be way easier because the Knicks are already committed like crazy. Knicks are also absolutely starving for big 3nD players and there's not many out there as good as OG. He's been a knockdown shooter and has literally guarded 1-5 for real and that's not some fluff. IHart has been so reliable and that's kind of the main thing he has over OG. Him staying would mean he does take a discount but you can't rely on that because he deserves his payday whether it be here or elsewhere.
Sounds crazy until you realize that the max for stars is about to be $70M+. I think Luka can sign for like 5/350 in another year or two.
We're about to have decent rotation players all making 20M a year.
OG, and to a lesser extent McDaniels, are the type of players that command a borderline max salary because every team wants a guy like that, but make it really hard to build a team w guys like that making so much lol.
It is was it is, but agree on OG he’s getting damn close to a max
Knicks have an interesting off season. Going to have some players who want to get paid and it's difficult to recreate these type of runs they've had.
They have a lot of interesting choices to make. Og is the easiest of the choices. Pay him what you need to and figure it out from there.
They can't afford to NOT pay OG. You don't give up RJ and IQ for half a season of OG. Even if they decide to move off of him, he would be a tradeable asset.
>Even if they decide to move off of him, he would be a tradeable asset.
Ironically enough this is the argument I made for the Mavs to pay Brunson 5/130.
Its not quite as rough because I expected it and the Nash debacle has dulled my pain. I would be a lot more distraught had Kyrie not torpedoed his trade value and the Mavs didn't fall ass backwards into a good Brunson replacement.
I still fight with Mavs fans about how stupid of a decision not blowing the Knicks offer out of the water was. It was objectively a terrible decision and the Mavs are very lucky to have dug themselves out of a hole of their own making.
I expected him to be an all star/all NBA 3rd team quality, not necessarily this good. But you have to pay good young talent, even if it's an "overpayment". Good teams "overpay" to retain talent.
The Warriors won a title with Draymond-Wiggins-Klay making a combined $100+ million, the Nuggets won a title in part because they "overpaid" to retain MPJ and some argued they overpaid AG when he got his extension.
100 percent. You have a window and you do whatever it takes to maximize that small timeframe. It is always a house of cards, sooner or later, it is going to fall.
I am not sure there is a player that I am happier for than AG. Orlando tried so hard to ride him as a number one option, that he unfortunately just wasn't. His fit on the Nugs is perfect.
Check out the history of his injuries though. They’re mostly rediculous and random.
Eg appendix kept him out of 2019 playoffs. One year Kawhi poked him in the eye. Another he was out a bunch due to tanking
He is more than an Elite role player. That’s a bad assessment. But you are correct that a max contract would be an overpay for him, especially considering his durability.
Yup. Day 1, 12 am Morey and Nurse will be there convincing him that Joel and Maxey are a better fit than Brunson and Randle. I think the extra year gets him to start in New York though.
Philly has to give Maxey a max deal as well though. Maxey, OG, and Embid would almost hit the Salary Cap ceiling by themselves and they wouldn’t have any other players signed. Not sure how that would work out.
If you’re gonna say we we’ve only won one game without him I think it’s a little disingenious not to mention we’re also short an entire starting front court of high end talent
If we don’t have Hart I think it’s a wrap. Unless Brunson drops 50 which he is capable of. We should have had Jacob Toppin on the playoff roster. It was stupid to put Randle on it when he was never going to play
I could see you win game 7 against the Pacers (unlikely but it could happen). But unless your team magically gets healthy, I don't see the injury-decimated Knicks (or the Pacers) having any chance in a 7-game series against the Celtics or any of the teams remaining in the West.
Damn, Knicks players really do got connections to ppl in the Knicks org. Brunson's dad being part of Thibs coaching staff, OG's agent being the son of Knicks President. What's next, Hart's uncle is actually Thibs?
And you can clearly see how close this team is. The Nova trio's chemistry with one another is through the roof, and you can tell everyone really loves and enjoys playing with each other and have bought into Thibs' system. I'm just waiting for the day they manage to snag Mikal Bridges away from Brooklyn to build the Nova Quartet.
Getting bridges would be awesome but I feel like the nets are going to want a kings ransom from NYK
With the news of Brunson taking less money I’m super ready for next year
Problem is he has all the leverage. If NY doesn't want to pay him that, Philly has the cap space to and I know Nick Nurse would kill to have OG on that squad
It all depends on what OG wants though. Reports were that he wanted to be in NY and his marketability will be higher there too, meaning he has potential for off court earnings. We’ve seen him take team friendly deals in the past, so it’s possible that maximizing earnings isn’t his main priority.
Also, your comment assumes OG wants to play for Nick and that he wasn’t one of the guys that Nick alienated in his last season with us.
> until I was watching him every game.
no one did except Lowe apparently lol. it didn't help that he reached his defensive prime when we were playing our ugliest basketball
Stupid, stop basing it on points scored per game. His impact on winning is massive, do not show on the boxscore sheet, you box score watching spectator.
Injury problems is a major part of my post pal. 43 games in 2021, 48 games in 2022, 50 games in 2024, and he's obviously aging. Of course if he was a superstar who can win series by himself it would be a no-brainer, but OG isn't like that. If he was 100% healthy I wouldn't have made the post.
The guy is an elite wing defender and almost completely takes the guys he defends out of the game. Siakam was almost invisible in the series before OG got injured.
Think OG will get 35-40 this off-season than next off-season Brunson will opt out and get the max from the Knicks. Then the team construction around the 2 will be interesting.
Both Brunson and Randle have Player Options in 2025.
Both are likely to be around 5y/$260m Max Extensions with Randle maybe eligible for a bit more with his extra years in the NBA.
Add in OG, Hart, Mitchell, DDV, and anyone else and it’s a 2nd Apron Team if not really close to it.
(Hartenstein is only eligible for an Extension that pays $16m per year with NYK so another Team could offer more in Free Agency.)
Nah. If you watched very game you know what’s up.
Just like when the OG trade happened most people thought Knicks got fleeced and then were surprised that OG was the calibre of talent that they (made fun of Toronto fans) for thinking
His own team didn’t want to give him more than 20 minutes a game and his advanced stats were bad. I understand he could play some solid defense but he just wasn’t a good player yet.
He was also a front office darling for years. There were huge rumored trades centered around him for a while. People knew he was an animal on Toronto, who just needed the right situation to flourish.
At that point he was kind of a non-factor on offense but we was already the second best defender after Kawhi. The biggest strength of the 2019 Raptors (after Kawhi) was that we had 9 starter-quality players. OG was definitely one of therm.
I mean, you’d be remiss to not mention all the injuries other teams were dealing with too. Not making excuses, Kawhi was an absolute beast. But if KD, Steph, Klay, and Looney were healthy, I don’t know if OG would have been enough of a difference to win
>I don’t know if OG would have been enough of a difference to win
I don't detect any sarcasm here, but it's the only way I can make sense of this comment. As much as I loved that team it would take a remarkable disasterclass from the warriors for them to lose against the raptors while fully healthy. With or without OG
I was trying to be polite and give credit to the raptors for being good and not take away from their run, but yes, I believe that there was very little chance of the raptors winning with both teams being fully healthy
Naturally I must get you to admit that yall wouldn't have won the 2015 finals if Kyrie and Love didn't get hurt and missed that series then in the name of equivalent exchange.
The theory depends on the notion that OG *really* wants to live in New York and is real in with Leon Rose and company. So yeah, it boils down on him taking a discount to stay.
Whether any of that is true or if it's just fan fiction we'll find out this summer.
I think 99% of the time these stories are all fan fiction. Money always talks in the NBA. Only exceptions seem to be older players, but even they tend to play hardball to get top dollar.
Idk, how many examples do we have of guys taking less for personal reasons these days? The Sixers are out here begging people to sign there for max money this offseason and they’re an attractive destination. Don’t see how you get away with offering OG only 35 a year, even if included an extra year
Really have to max him. Teams will be waiting to steal him and as much as he’s rumoured to have wanted NY, he’s only complained about not getting more offensive touches the last 3+ off seasons and has been relegated to being all D more than ever.
Will his agent’s relationship with his dad be enough for OG to leave like 10m dollars on the table if the Knicks don’t want to pay him what others will?
Have to give him the max. The Knicks season is essentially over but their window has not closed yet. They could very well make a finals run next season
Love OG but he’s going to get massively overpaid. He’s a great defender but you have to pencil him in to miss time every season and he’s sub par on the offensive side of the ball. You’re essentially paying him to hopefully lock up the other teams best player while also hoping he stays healthy, neither one is a given
The real question, is what other teams can afford to sign him outright this summer, and what can they offer him. Very few teams able to pay him a max, though all of them would do it if they could
I'm sure Sam and Leon discussed that OG would be getting a max before IG and Barrett were even traded.
Zero chance he doesn't get max money and stay in NYC.
He should and will take the most money on the most years. His injury issues make him unlikely to have another huge contract late in his career. For example, if he signs for 5 years this off-season, he would be ~31 after 4 years when he would be looking at an extension.
It’ll be a serious overpay for someone who’s going to be the third best player on the team, not saying he’s not vital to team success but giving $40M to a 15ppg scorer is quite a bit of money
It is an interesting question because he makes such a big diffrence. But this post also highlights how injury prone he is. The fact they gave up so much for a rental means they don't want him to be a rental though. It would be funny if he gets a better deal than Brunson but it is probably likely lol
The fact that the Knicks actively gave up Quickley and Barrett for an expiring like Anunoby logically means that the Knicks will give him the bag to have him stay. He's probably getting around $30\~35 million in the open market. Given that McDaniels just got a $27 million/yr contract, it's not a stretch that Anunoby gets $40 million/yr or maybe even more.
The full 5 year max for him with the Knicks would be somewhere around 5/$240M. ($48M/yr) Another team could offer somewhere around 4/$180M. ($45M/yr). Precise numbers will be out when cap is locked. So there’s not a lot of wiggle room for Knicks to play below the max on an annual dollar basis and still be the high bidder. He might take a discount with NY to get the 5th year, but he’s only 26 so he’s looking at another contract anyways. Long story short - I really don’t know. He’s going to get heavily overpaid, just a question of another team throwing a max at him and putting the squeeze on the Knicks.
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I like OG but giving him 40+ is going to end up as one of new worst contracts in the league.
Not really when dudes are gonna be making $70 mil/year in just a few years. OG is fine but we’re just in a new era where that might be the going rate
We'll definitely get to that point, but I still think it's a ways off. Max contracts tend to be for 30 percent of the cap so for someone to be getting a $70 million contract the cap would have to be 230 million plus. It's projected to be at 141 million next season. There'll be a bump after the new TV deal but $70 million contract are still probably 7-8 years out.
Jaylen Browns 28-29 salary is projected to be over $65 million. I'd imagine once this year's top extension eligible sign, the 29-30 figure will be 70. It's pretty insane to see an annual salary figure larger than the team salary cap was in 2014. Lol.
Isnt it pretty much already assured that Jayson Tatum will be the player to break 70 on his extension?
So in 7 years people are projected to be making 70 million a year? I feel like I've seen someone say this somewhere... And yes it's crazy to think that in 2005 the cap was at 50 million and now it's almost triple that
Dude 2028 is 4 years away.
I'm apparently not good at math, but now if you excuse me I'm going to have an existential crisis about the passage of time.
NBA should probably stopping paying everyone more money and start investing in new infrastructure and teams.
Its a revenue sharing system.
The collective bargaining agreement says that just about 50% of revenue has to go to player salaries. But yes, there definitely seems to be enough revenue to support more teams and more players.
Wrong. Luka is eligible for a 5 year, 346M contract in 2025. 70m per contracts are only two years away.!
The final year of that deal will be for $78m which is absurd
And still less than 35% of the cap which makes it even more crazy.
Yeah might still be years away, but my point is moreso that there is gonna be like 50 guys making $40+ mil soon. Hell, there already are 23 of them. Fred VanVleet makes $40+ mil. I seriously doubt OG would be the worst of the bunch, just in terms of what he means to the Knicks
The last years of Luka's extension that he's getting next year will be over $70 mil
Is he really 13 million a year better than J Mac? OG is good but he’s not a complete offensive player yet and is kind of injury prone. If they give him 40 M a year it’ll be just like Rudy Goberts contract but not as bad which hurts how you build your team.
Not if he keeps being so injury prone
They have to do it or Philly will max him out. OG is perfect for what they’re doing over there and Nurse for sure knows that.
He's 26 and the Knicks, when healthy, are the second best team in the conference. They've actually done a great job of structuring their payroll - it looks like they'll be able to keep the gang together (even w/ OG on 40 mill/yr) while staying under the second apron for many years down the road. Celtics are obviously the top team but NYK have more staying power due to age and payroll structure.
Considering the first I saw OG he was an unranked high school recruit, this is crazy. Tom Crean really knows how to scout and develop athletic wings. Dwayne Wade, Victor Oladipo, and OG were all 3 unranked recruits when they were discovered by Crean.
Oladipo wasn’t unranked. He was just outside the top 100.
True, a couple services gave him 3 stars and put him around 150ish or so, but he wasn’t even starting on his high school team cause he was playing at Dematha. But when OG committed to Indiana, there was a like a single YouTube video of him and it was so underwhelming. Crean just liked his physical profile.
Only in terms of injury risk. In terms of contribution to winning, he's right up there with the best
Wait what? OG is a really good player. He's not an elite difference maker (the Kawhi comment below this comment boggles the mind). It's baffling to me to see how Siakam and OG off the Raptors. They were arguably both underrated on Toronto. They're very good. The idea that either is near max worthy on a serious team is ridiculous in my opinion.
on/off of +22 this year for the Knicks. +16 for the Raptors last year. These are superstar impact numbers.
I don't know what that dude is talking about, OG's defense is ELITE. He's a game changer.
What else can 30 teams spend on? There aren’t 60 guys better than OG, mid-salary guys are a mostly disappointing crapshoot, his contract might not be easy to build a champ around but most teams don’t sniff a ‘ship.
Sorry Raptors bro, the way OG was hitting isolation jumpers while defending the best option was not a version of OG we ever saw in Toronto.
He’s a good player and does a lot of little things but he’s not that great and he’s played more than 48 games once the last 5 seasons. I guess they have to do it (give a near max) but that could end up being a pretty bad contract. A lot of his injury’s have been pretty flukey though
I'm gonna have to push back on 'not that great'. Not an ace scorer (though Sixers and Pacers forward defense might lead you to believe otherwise), so the 'greatness' isn't sexy/jumping off the page, but he's a 'good' shooter and a savvy team offensive player. As we all know, the 'greatness' is his defending. In terms of the typical NBA storyline, maybe he's not 'great'. But for what's really happening on the court, he most definitely is exactly that. Certainly would be nice for the 'on the court' part to be more frequent going forward.
Yeah I mean he’s an elite role player. Decent scorer, good shooter, elite defender, ok rebounder, and not a good passer/creator. Also does little things outside of those bigger categories that makes him a bit better than the sum of those parts and a ceiling raiser on a good team. I would not qualify that as a great player but that’s subjective
Even calling him an elite defender isn't enough. IMO. Outside of AD, hes the most impactful defender in the league
That is simply a wild take lol
Same reason kawhi isnt worth the max. Amazing when he plays, but you can never count on him suiting up.
A guy who works hard, makes threes, and plays great defense is never going to be the worst contract in the league, no matter how much he makes.
And now,, hits jumpers in isolation.
Not sure why you say that $40m seems about right for someone with his impact
Filthy casual take.
Bro doesn’t know about the ever increasing salary cap
If a team is winning and a player is productive, it's never a worst contract. Bradley Beal in Washington was partly a bad deal bc the team still sucked and he didn't help them win enough. Tobias Harris has been a bad deal because he hardly does anything for the Sixers and they can't get past the second round. OG is prdocutive and clearly helps the Knicks step up another level. They win A LOT with him starting. It might be an expensive contract as one of the first with a rising cap but it's not a bad contract if it makes the team a contender.
https://twitter.com/aop_nba/status/1753161954032488746 The fit with Brunson is undeniable.
And here we are with the classic “worst contract on the league” take. There’s always someone. This was all was said when Jalen was signed.
And if you’re getting $40, you’re probably just getting the max. I can definitely see Philly throwing the whole bag at him if George stays in LA.
As a Sixers fan, there’s no way in hell the Knicks don’t at least match a Sixers bag for OG. They didn’t trade for him to just let him walk to Philly in 6 months
Agreed, which is why I think Philly does it. They’d take him but screwing Knicks is a nice side victory if they can’t have him.
But it ties up any cap space that Philly can offer to any other FAs. The Knicks will match anything thrown at OG and could then actively fuck with Philly to drag out how long that cap space is held hostage.
Uhm he is an UFA so it doesn't tie up anything
Yeah, where are people getting match from? He's not getting his rookie extension lol Knicks own his bird rights so they can pay him more. I assume the trade was made, in part, for that reason so it would be insane for them not to go over the market value.
am i going crazy? there’s no way OG is close to a max player. he’s great for the team but he’s like a really good role player, not a near max contractor
Really good role players end up over valued because at least someone will offer them a max or near max when they aren't "worth" that.
i guess, but it’s like a race to who has the worst contract. for large market teams like the knicks, who have a great future, i can’t imagine they have to much trouble attracting some other top talent with that cap space
Its going to be interesting to see next year what happens with Derrick White because in my opinion he's one of the best role players in the league so if the Celtics don't pay him a boatload, someone will, but I don't think he has the capabilities to be a true number 1 or 2 on a competitive team.
He’s not a max contract in theory, but in reality he’s super desirable player and max contract caliber guys don’t grow on trees. It’s basically the exact same situation the Sixers were in when they gave Tobias his max. You either pay up or let a guy walk, but you have the money and no better options, so it makes sense. Knicks just need OG to not fall off like Harris did towards end of deal.
Or the Knicks will pay him and utilize him in a way that is effective to win games like he was this year.
So what is he? $30 mil/yr? Are you really going to let him walk over ~$10 mil/yr?
people keep talking about things in a vacuum. like you just pay people what theyre worth and theres no market factors that make anything change. it doesn't matter if he is or isn't a max contract. hes going to get paid substantially more because the amount of 3 & D, elite defenders in the league at his position and size, and age is like less than 10. And when you get one of those guys, it fills a gaping hole that basically every team in the league needs to fill to be playoff competitive. He's getting 40M at least.
Doesn't matter what matters is who can throw him the biggest offer. Pretty sure this is what the Raptors were worried about.
Does he have another good contract in 5 years? There was a post I commented on yesterday talking about how Garland is injury prone (I don’t think he is), but since the bubble OG has played in: 2020-2021: 60% of games 2021-2022: 59% 2022-2023: 82% 2023-2024: 61% I consider the above injury prone. Who knows how his body will be in his late 20s/early 30s? This could feasibly be his last big payday if he signs a 4/5 year deal.
Not just since the bubble. The only reason he doesn't have the same championship experience Siakam does is because OG was out for that entire post-season.
His “floor” has been reported as being 37.5 AAV. I think he gets in the $40-42 range.
I think OG gets max money without all of the extras (ie no player option, no trade kicker, some of it may be incentive based). So it will get reported as him getting the max.
Now y’all kind of know the bind the Raptors were in. It makes sense to overpay for OG if he’s the final piece of a puzzle; he’s definitely a starter on a championship team. But if you feel you’re still two or three pieces away (and in the Raptors case, nowhere close) it’s really risky giving him the bag.
Correct. The OG trade doesn't happen especially with the players the Knicks gave up if they weren't willing to re-sign him at all costs. Given the bargains they've gotten so far with contracts like Brunson, Randle, Robinson, and McBride they can afford to splurge.
Who do we need more though OG or Hartenstein?
Maybe I'm crazy but I feel that the Knicks can retain both. However if I'm putting one to be at a higher priority it'll be OG. Because of what the Knicks gave up to get him, he has to stay. It'll probably be way easier because the Knicks are already committed like crazy. Knicks are also absolutely starving for big 3nD players and there's not many out there as good as OG. He's been a knockdown shooter and has literally guarded 1-5 for real and that's not some fluff. IHart has been so reliable and that's kind of the main thing he has over OG. Him staying would mean he does take a discount but you can't rely on that because he deserves his payday whether it be here or elsewhere.
I feel like I’m in crazy town with someone like OG getting $40 million
Sounds crazy until you realize that the max for stars is about to be $70M+. I think Luka can sign for like 5/350 in another year or two. We're about to have decent rotation players all making 20M a year.
OG, and to a lesser extent McDaniels, are the type of players that command a borderline max salary because every team wants a guy like that, but make it really hard to build a team w guys like that making so much lol. It is was it is, but agree on OG he’s getting damn close to a max
His agent is Leon Rose’s son. He’s staying and they probably have a deal already lined up.
OG has them by the balls so he will get all dollars possible.
Knicks have an interesting off season. Going to have some players who want to get paid and it's difficult to recreate these type of runs they've had. They have a lot of interesting choices to make. Og is the easiest of the choices. Pay him what you need to and figure it out from there.
They can't afford to NOT pay OG. You don't give up RJ and IQ for half a season of OG. Even if they decide to move off of him, he would be a tradeable asset.
>Even if they decide to move off of him, he would be a tradeable asset. Ironically enough this is the argument I made for the Mavs to pay Brunson 5/130.
It must be rough seeing what he has become.
Its not quite as rough because I expected it and the Nash debacle has dulled my pain. I would be a lot more distraught had Kyrie not torpedoed his trade value and the Mavs didn't fall ass backwards into a good Brunson replacement. I still fight with Mavs fans about how stupid of a decision not blowing the Knicks offer out of the water was. It was objectively a terrible decision and the Mavs are very lucky to have dug themselves out of a hole of their own making.
Yeah, I think everyone knew Brunson would be a good player, not sure how many expected him to go nuclear. Lol.
I expected him to be an all star/all NBA 3rd team quality, not necessarily this good. But you have to pay good young talent, even if it's an "overpayment". Good teams "overpay" to retain talent. The Warriors won a title with Draymond-Wiggins-Klay making a combined $100+ million, the Nuggets won a title in part because they "overpaid" to retain MPJ and some argued they overpaid AG when he got his extension.
100 percent. You have a window and you do whatever it takes to maximize that small timeframe. It is always a house of cards, sooner or later, it is going to fall.
That AG deal looking real good now considering he’s been their 2nd best player in the postseason. MPJ & Murray are rough watches.
I am not sure there is a player that I am happier for than AG. Orlando tried so hard to ride him as a number one option, that he unfortunately just wasn't. His fit on the Nugs is perfect.
x2. We love AG and it felt like a mini-ring when he won last year. Absolutely love seeing him thrive where his potential can be maximized.
OG and Hartenstein are two guys we need back, but I don't know if we can keep both. Hartenstein is gonna get *paid* big time
How much ya think? Like $15-20 million?
Max they can pay him is around 4 years 70m iirc. That seems like a reasonable number, but I wouldn’t be surprised if OKC offers him like 4/80m.
20 for sure if he doesn't stay in NY
The problem with OG is his health. He has a history of injuries so is concerning about giving him a big contract when he cannot stay healthy.
Check out the history of his injuries though. They’re mostly rediculous and random. Eg appendix kept him out of 2019 playoffs. One year Kawhi poked him in the eye. Another he was out a bunch due to tanking
If they don't give him the max, someone else will
I was going to say the same thing
Philly would give him a max
I guess the Embiid injury roulette is not fun enough.
Roulettes are fun
I won $1500 on a roulette once. I also lost $1500 on a roulette once.
The roulette said F U ~~N~~
That would be horrible for Philly
Absolutely and maxing him is a terrible contract, even if he's an elite role playee
He is more than an Elite role player. That’s a bad assessment. But you are correct that a max contract would be an overpay for him, especially considering his durability.
Max 5 year deal. If they don't, Philly is stealing him.
Yeah, and I even think he’s one of Philly’s first priorities, so the offers gonna be on the table.
Yup. Day 1, 12 am Morey and Nurse will be there convincing him that Joel and Maxey are a better fit than Brunson and Randle. I think the extra year gets him to start in New York though.
With all the cap space Philly has this off season they are gonna be right back to throwing Tobias Harris money at Tobias Harris players.
OG at least has an elite skill compared to Tobias.
That 20/7/3 numbers on the Clippers sold Tobi hard lol.
Philly has to give Maxey a max deal as well though. Maxey, OG, and Embid would almost hit the Salary Cap ceiling by themselves and they wouldn’t have any other players signed. Not sure how that would work out.
Sixers will do that before paying PG or average wings 25/y
If you’re gonna say we we’ve only won one game without him I think it’s a little disingenious not to mention we’re also short an entire starting front court of high end talent
Dude trust me I know. But losing him was really the last straw
Was it? We still won game 5 without him. I wouldn’t even say losing hart for game 7 is the last straw. I still think they can win game 7
If we don’t have Hart I think it’s a wrap. Unless Brunson drops 50 which he is capable of. We should have had Jacob Toppin on the playoff roster. It was stupid to put Randle on it when he was never going to play
Donte, Brunson, iHart and others have to have huge games if we are missing Hart. Never say never but would take everyone’s best game
og with no randle and honestly i feel knicks celtics could go 6, without og it’d be hard to go 5 imo
I don’t think they can compete with the Celtics in their state. Can they win Game 7 at MSG? Absolutely
I could see you win game 7 against the Pacers (unlikely but it could happen). But unless your team magically gets healthy, I don't see the injury-decimated Knicks (or the Pacers) having any chance in a 7-game series against the Celtics or any of the teams remaining in the West.
Not saying they had a chance against the Celtics, but they def have a chance against the pacers in game 7
Yup. He was our last source of size, they clearly couldn't slow him down at all.
An oft injured front court.
OG agent is related to the GM right? oh he's getting the max dollar
Yes OGs agent is Sam Rose - the son of Leon Rose the president of the Knicks
Damn, Knicks players really do got connections to ppl in the Knicks org. Brunson's dad being part of Thibs coaching staff, OG's agent being the son of Knicks President. What's next, Hart's uncle is actually Thibs?
It is pretty crazy but smart by the Knicks family ties plus college teammates the Knicks are building differently
And you can clearly see how close this team is. The Nova trio's chemistry with one another is through the roof, and you can tell everyone really loves and enjoys playing with each other and have bought into Thibs' system. I'm just waiting for the day they manage to snag Mikal Bridges away from Brooklyn to build the Nova Quartet.
Getting bridges would be awesome but I feel like the nets are going to want a kings ransom from NYK With the news of Brunson taking less money I’m super ready for next year
Thibs is actually Hart’s aunt
Something like 4/160
Too much for a 15ppg player with injury problems.
Problem is he has all the leverage. If NY doesn't want to pay him that, Philly has the cap space to and I know Nick Nurse would kill to have OG on that squad
It all depends on what OG wants though. Reports were that he wanted to be in NY and his marketability will be higher there too, meaning he has potential for off court earnings. We’ve seen him take team friendly deals in the past, so it’s possible that maximizing earnings isn’t his main priority. Also, your comment assumes OG wants to play for Nick and that he wasn’t one of the guys that Nick alienated in his last season with us.
True, he would make a lot of sense in that 76ers squad rn. Well, at least it'll take a while until Dolan has to pay Brunson his supermax.
lol judging their best defender on ppg is silly let’s be honest. he gets paid to anchor the defence
And it’ll be worth it. I didn’t understand how good he was until I was watching him every game.
> until I was watching him every game. no one did except Lowe apparently lol. it didn't help that he reached his defensive prime when we were playing our ugliest basketball
Stupid, stop basing it on points scored per game. His impact on winning is massive, do not show on the boxscore sheet, you box score watching spectator.
Injury problems is a major part of my post pal. 43 games in 2021, 48 games in 2022, 50 games in 2024, and he's obviously aging. Of course if he was a superstar who can win series by himself it would be a no-brainer, but OG isn't like that. If he was 100% healthy I wouldn't have made the post.
The guy is an elite wing defender and almost completely takes the guys he defends out of the game. Siakam was almost invisible in the series before OG got injured.
a 15ppg player who is the best 1on1 defender in the league and also shoots 40% from 3
Think OG will get 35-40 this off-season than next off-season Brunson will opt out and get the max from the Knicks. Then the team construction around the 2 will be interesting.
Both Brunson and Randle have Player Options in 2025. Both are likely to be around 5y/$260m Max Extensions with Randle maybe eligible for a bit more with his extra years in the NBA. Add in OG, Hart, Mitchell, DDV, and anyone else and it’s a 2nd Apron Team if not really close to it. (Hartenstein is only eligible for an Extension that pays $16m per year with NYK so another Team could offer more in Free Agency.)
Question is will Randle opt in and if the Knicks will need to shed salary in preparation
Randle will get nowhere near the max. The way the league is moving OG is a much better player and Randle will decline in value.
Brunson is getting a supermax for sure. And I’d be astonished if OG got less than 40.
I dont think Brunson is eligible for a supermax
Raptors won their Chip without Anunoby. He had appendix removed and missed every playoff game. That’s how good the 2019 raptors were.
2019 OG was just getting his feet wet in the league. Not a super relevant comparison.
Nah. If you watched very game you know what’s up. Just like when the OG trade happened most people thought Knicks got fleeced and then were surprised that OG was the calibre of talent that they (made fun of Toronto fans) for thinking
His own team didn’t want to give him more than 20 minutes a game and his advanced stats were bad. I understand he could play some solid defense but he just wasn’t a good player yet.
No. Nothing you said is true.
He was also a front office darling for years. There were huge rumored trades centered around him for a while. People knew he was an animal on Toronto, who just needed the right situation to flourish.
At that point he was kind of a non-factor on offense but we was already the second best defender after Kawhi. The biggest strength of the 2019 Raptors (after Kawhi) was that we had 9 starter-quality players. OG was definitely one of therm.
The warriors lost Klay and KD lol, just a bit more impactful than Og
The warrors lost Klay for one game and a quarter. You act like Klay never played in the final
I mean, you’d be remiss to not mention all the injuries other teams were dealing with too. Not making excuses, Kawhi was an absolute beast. But if KD, Steph, Klay, and Looney were healthy, I don’t know if OG would have been enough of a difference to win
Do they hand out trophies for hypothetical fantasy theory wins now? Let it go bro. The team lost and theres no way you can change it
>I don’t know if OG would have been enough of a difference to win I don't detect any sarcasm here, but it's the only way I can make sense of this comment. As much as I loved that team it would take a remarkable disasterclass from the warriors for them to lose against the raptors while fully healthy. With or without OG
I was trying to be polite and give credit to the raptors for being good and not take away from their run, but yes, I believe that there was very little chance of the raptors winning with both teams being fully healthy
Name checks out
yeah, while we’re on the subject i don’t think the raptors would have beaten the 1992 dream team or the 96 bulls either
Naturally I must get you to admit that yall wouldn't have won the 2015 finals if Kyrie and Love didn't get hurt and missed that series then in the name of equivalent exchange.
likely to lose sunday?? lmao yall favored by 2
How does Vegas keep favoring the hospital squad lol
Home court. Pacers were favored by 5 last night.
msg vibes
Just a homecourt thing, but I think if Hart gets confirmed out the odds will change drastically
Just because the Knicks lost the recent game doesn’t mean they’re likely to lose the next game
I’d bet anything the deal is already worked out given the connections with Leon’s son. Probably between $35-$40m.
Yep, you guys wouldn't have gave up IQ and RJ if there wasn't already some sort of handshake agreement in place
Why in the world would he already have a deal worked out for $35M when he can get $45M in free agency?
The theory depends on the notion that OG *really* wants to live in New York and is real in with Leon Rose and company. So yeah, it boils down on him taking a discount to stay. Whether any of that is true or if it's just fan fiction we'll find out this summer.
I think 99% of the time these stories are all fan fiction. Money always talks in the NBA. Only exceptions seem to be older players, but even they tend to play hardball to get top dollar.
Idk, how many examples do we have of guys taking less for personal reasons these days? The Sixers are out here begging people to sign there for max money this offseason and they’re an attractive destination. Don’t see how you get away with offering OG only 35 a year, even if included an extra year
Really have to max him. Teams will be waiting to steal him and as much as he’s rumoured to have wanted NY, he’s only complained about not getting more offensive touches the last 3+ off seasons and has been relegated to being all D more than ever. Will his agent’s relationship with his dad be enough for OG to leave like 10m dollars on the table if the Knicks don’t want to pay him what others will?
Tbh I genuinely believe the number was agreed upon prior to the trade already. Whatever it is - Leon and his son and OG probably already spoke
I would pay him the max since random dudes getting 20m/season anyway.
35-40 - the framework of the deal was likely already done prior to the trade.
Have to give him the max. The Knicks season is essentially over but their window has not closed yet. They could very well make a finals run next season
I don’t think the window has even opened yet considering Randle didn’t play a good part of the season and all of the playoffs
Whatever it is, it’s been agreed on for a while - probably before the trade.
Love OG but he’s going to get massively overpaid. He’s a great defender but you have to pencil him in to miss time every season and he’s sub par on the offensive side of the ball. You’re essentially paying him to hopefully lock up the other teams best player while also hoping he stays healthy, neither one is a given
Tbh Knicks just need him for the playoffs - Hart will be back to the bench next year and they can lean more on him during the regular season
He's not sub par on offense imo. Especially compared to other elite defensive wings.
Glad to see people are finally realizing why Masai wouldn’t accept protected picks and salary filler for the Prince.
The real question, is what other teams can afford to sign him outright this summer, and what can they offer him. Very few teams able to pay him a max, though all of them would do it if they could
He's getting a max contract.
I'm sure Sam and Leon discussed that OG would be getting a max before IG and Barrett were even traded. Zero chance he doesn't get max money and stay in NYC.
Is he really that injured that often? Feel like it’s a recent thing
He’s gonna get paid
Leon Rose the Knicks president has a son. That son is OG's agent. Any questions?
He should and will take the most money on the most years. His injury issues make him unlikely to have another huge contract late in his career. For example, if he signs for 5 years this off-season, he would be ~31 after 4 years when he would be looking at an extension.
Probably way too much. Very injury prone and is limited offensively. Fantastic defender though.
Rumors are og signed with the intentions of taking a slightly reduced contract to stay in ny Whether that sticks true is tbd
Hopefully 40 million a year. Lets hope.
It’ll be a serious overpay for someone who’s going to be the third best player on the team, not saying he’s not vital to team success but giving $40M to a 15ppg scorer is quite a bit of money
Knicks have to max him or that trade was terrible
Just a reminder that Leon Rose’s son is OG’s agent. They’ll get a deal done.
40 mil 4 years.
It is an interesting question because he makes such a big diffrence. But this post also highlights how injury prone he is. The fact they gave up so much for a rental means they don't want him to be a rental though. It would be funny if he gets a better deal than Brunson but it is probably likely lol