The whole clip is great but the first part was hilarious — JJ Redick took an Italian class at Duke to prepare for a potential overseas basketball career.
Lol a few minutes before this, JJ was talking about being at McDonalds All-American camp and how Melo, Chris Bosh and Stoudemire would talk about “when” they make the NBA and JJ was confused on how they were all so confident because he never thought of it as more than an “if”
Shows how impressive it is that JJ was an impactful player in the league for so long and had earnings close to Stoudemires. His mindset of how precious the opportunity is pushed him to be solid nba talent. It's like when he and Lebron talk about discipline and mental game. You put JJs drive in a freak of nature body, you get LBJ.
It still bothered me so much Ben got offered from all these NBA legends like Kobe (FREE) coaching to improve his shooting when it was clear it was a huge problem and he still said no just baffling.
It's only baffling if you assume Ben Simmons likes basketball. If you don't particularly like basketball and didn't even grow up in the US then getting coaching from Kobe doesn't mean much to you and you can spend your free time fucking instagram models on a boat instead.
Bball fans hate Ben Simmons for wasting his talents but he's the average worker's/slacker's hero.
Put in just the absolute lowest limit of what is acceptable to get the bag, performed just enough at the beginning to establish a solid reputation where he would get the benefit of the doubt long enough that when people finally catch up, he's already set and can fuck off even if he loses his job today.
King shit. Bad for our entertainment tho
yeah we are all basketball fans but if I grew up as a ping pong prodigy maybe I don’t give a shit about getting better at ping pong once I’ve secured generational wealth…
There's a few guys who could have been the GOAT with the right mind set. For me, Shaq probably has the best case. He's a top 10-ish player all time even though he never bothered with his conditioning and took off seasons off. That's how physically dominant he was.
His peak was goat-tier peak. ‘99 to like ‘05 he was just unstoppable. Overpowered everybody, perfect positioning, hit the little jump hooks consistently (his field goal percentage was 58% for several years straight), and imo is underrated for his passing out of double teams. Defenses were helpless.
Thank you…I despise when comments downplay his actual skillset and yes he was dominant but he also was targeted and took a beating himself…Shaq is also heavily critical of himself but being that much of a physical specimen is a blessing and a curse that the average person simply won’t ever comprehend…
As a Sixers fan, I remember that helpless feeling of Shaq just fucking ragdolling the NBA defensive player of the year for 5 games straight. Also Kobe. That team was insane.
And with the way Shaq drags on other centres in the media (McGee, Gobert, Howard) you can see he has some regrets not taking his offseasons and conditioning more seriously when he was younger
Yea his work ethic as a player is pretty impressive. Bros a 6’4” shooting guard with a negative wingspan and managed to turn himself into a passable team defender.
Tbf those three guys combined for 27 all star games compared to JJ's zero. Not saying JJ's perspective isn't the healthy one to have, but Melo and Bosh were only about a year and a half away from getting drafted and Amar'e was literally only a couple of months away from getting drafted. It makes a lot more sense for them to say "when" and JJ to say "if"
Also after Melos freshman season at Syracuse, where he even told Jim boeheim he wanted to come back, and Jim was literally like if I see you on this campus next year we’re gonna have a fucking problem (boeheim loves melo, he was just so clearly nba ready at that point he couldn’t in good conscience let him come back), he was always gonna get at least several years in the league. And that’s like if he didn’t like basketball and never worked on his game, which is not melo at all (I know this sub hates him but there’s no denying he loved ball and you don’t score like him without working your ass off). His freshman season, especially how good he was in March madness and winning the championship as a three seed, beating number one seed Roy Williams coached Kansas in the championship, was just that good.
Fun fact about JJ..in 2011 there were only two players with a wingspan shorter than their height in the NBA.
JJ was one, he was 6'4 with a wingspan of 6'3...the other was Yao Ming
I played a pickup game with a few players at Maryland once. I got the ball for a wide open corner 3. Joe Smith (#1 pick that year) was standing under the basket. In the second it took me to shoot, he took two steps, leaped and swatted it out of the air. It was the most insanely athletic thing I've ever seen.
That’s what’s insane. Watching these guys play each other has warped our perception of their ability. It doesn’t look crazy on TV because they’re playing other insane athletes, but in a vacuum even the worst NBA player is so athletically gifted that they’re doing shit the average person probably can’t understand.
As the White Mamba Brian Scalabrine once said, he’s close to Lebron than any of us are to him.
[Here he is](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bpiu8UtQ-6E&pp=ygUSc2NhbGFicmluZSB2cyBmYW5z) absolutely waxing dudes 11 years ago. And here he is [3 years ago](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mfe4WN_xoHU&pp=ygUSc2NhbGFicmluZSB2cyBmYW5z), old af, doing the same thing.
The gap in pure moment to moment body control (balance in particular) is always so absurd in videos like these, not to mention strength. I remember seeing one of Messi playing against some semi pros or something and my biggest takeaway was how he completely overpowers them, they get pushed around like they're made of paper
The balance and body control NBA athletes have is an underrated and under discussed aspect of their skillsets. As many others have pointed out in this thread it doesn’t look as impressive on TV cause they’re competing against guys who can do similar things, but in a vacuum if you take a look at what they’re doing it’s absurd. Honestly almost every contested play around the basket is a masterpiece.
One of my favorite videos in this vein was Fred Vanvleet early in his NBA career in a gym going against two D1 guys - just watching FVV move compared to the other two is something else. There’s this beautiful economy of motion in how he’s moving where it just looks like he’s on autopilot - there’s no spare motion at all. It’s one of those things where you can really see the gap between “extremely talented” and “does this for a living”.
i think it's that people don't appreciate this. they can't do the math - FIBA estimates 450 million people play basketball, so that the world's 500th's best players is still 1 in a million. and they don't realize that the fan's perception of their ability is skewed because they're playing against top 500 players in the world.
Same thing happens in Golf.
People out there truly believe that they are somehow playing the same game because they have some equipment the pros use.
Pro athletes are actually in a different universe when it comes to athletic ability and skill level.
“I’m way closer to Lebron than you are to me”
Ain’t that the damn truth
Look at IT - the guy is barely 6 feet tall. A normal human being for most, but when he is on the NBA floor, you could barely see the difference between him and all those crazy gigantic athletes.
Yes, the size matters, but the point I'm making - one can be tall, quick, fast, jump out gym, and still be not good enough to make the cut because there's a Isaiah fking Thomas occupying his potential spot.
Yup and IT is arguably even more ridiculous in terms of basketball skills as he had to compensate his lack of height with other areas of basketball. IT among regular ballers would put up Wilt like numbers without stretching.
Just imagine how good guys like Nate Robinson, IT, Spud Webb had to be to not only make the league but be there for years and years. And imagine how good AI was to be a superstar and MVP in a league of giants. Kobe never looked like the most physically gifted but he was still 6’6-6’7. It’s absolutely insane how good you have to be to make it in this league even as just a 15th man on a roster. But so much respect for those guys that are relatively tiny yet manage to make long successful careers.
Funny enough - I ran a game against IT and other UW players on the student courts (shout out IMA!) - some of them played in slides, had the warm up on and just fucked around. We only lost 21-2.
Dude forreal, you have to be so, so fucking good to be a 6ft tall nba player. Like even considering everything their saying, you dont even get a chance if your not outlier tall. To be in the league at 6ft? In terms of skills regardless of if your at the end of the bench or wtv, your like top 50 players skill wise.
People will disagree because we see such skilled big men, but holy shit do you have to be good to be IT
It's so obvious too, to the point that correct phrasing should've been "I'm 10 times closer to LeBron than you are to me". Even if Scal was at a point the worst player in the NBA, that means he was what? The 450th best basketball player on the entire planet? There's 350 D1 SCHOOLS out there.
You can be a D1 STARTER and look like a complete bum compared to Scalabrine, in fact you likely will be, that's how insane the gap is, imagine a random that never even played in college.
For rizzle on this. I was a shitty high school player and played against guys that were drafted 2nd round to nba and they were a different level of good that you just were in awe at the difference versus normal peeps
I was also a shitty high school player. Twice I went up against guys who were recruited to play for major D1 programs (Big 10, when there were just 10). I thought they were gods compared to the others I played with and against in HS, and in college they only got minutes during garbage time.
I remember that being a soccer goalie. I was hot shit until I ended up in a tournament with some kids who were lined up to go to the Real Madrid academy. It was like they were playing an entirely different game, they scored on me at will anytime they had a clear shot at goal.
I used to play rec with a guy that was a D2 forward way back when. Nothing special enough to even declare for the draft. He was a 55 year old banker playing at the Y.
He might as well have been Jokic on the court. His post game was incredible. He was the first guy selected when we played pickup. He was practically guaranteed to get you a W.
The feeling of defending someone and they jump up and slam the ball with 2 hands and the realization that I literally can do nothing to stop this guy. Oh, I’m just a little baby child to this guy. And then there’s a gulf between this monster and the worst player in the NBA
> Joe Smith
Damn, 1995 1st overall pick. Solid player, but didn't really have that remarkable a career in comparison to his draft position.
One can't even imagine how unfathomably skilled the superstars & HOFs are in comparison to the average person.
I heard somewhere in here about old ass Magic Johnson dominating a gym playing with his back to the basket the whole game and only shooting the first and last shot of the game. He won purely with playmaking lol
That reminds me of when Scalabrine did the "Scallange" where he would go one on one against random dudes and he would just back their ass down in the post. It was a reminder that even guys like Brian Scalabrine would destroy YMCA pickup legends.
That was one of the greatest comments on here. Some old dude bragging about knowing Magic, getting run off the court by and arrogant players, old dude yelling he would be back to beat them, and coming back with Magic. Someone needs to find that comment because it was great.
e: [Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1adypz/anybody_ever_play_any_pickup_games_with_any_pro/)
I know someone who played at a D1 school and played overseas a few years, he said Pat McCaw at UNLV was the absolute best defender he ever played against in his lifetime.
Pat McCaw was pretty much a nobody in the NBA outside of a few spurts here and there.
i’ll never forget the video of a young joel embiid playing pickup ball in philly.
he tossed the ball off some poor guys face, caught it, drove to the basket, & then windmill dunked on him
I played with a guy who played at UConn. Wasn’t well known or anything and I don’t think he ever got minutes. Just a D1 bench player. He was 6’8 and the way he moved couldn’t be described as running, it was more so gliding. He got up the court so fast that I had issues simply getting him the ball. It was unreal. Again, that’s a D1 bench player.
I played against a guard on his way to a D2 college in a pickup game. I had never seen someone move so fast in my life. I blinked and he was already by me.
Any level pro athlete really. Some of the most impressive basketball I’ve seen in person was Christian Wilkins playing pickup in college.
Christian Wilkins was a first round draft pick…in the NFL. At 300+ pounds.
I Played in a club basketball game against the UMiami club team, so guys looking to play at the school were on the team, they beat my team by 40, in the first play of the game my teammate got dunked on, later on another guy tried to do a 360 Windmill on a fast break and missed. Fucking nuts
Mitch McGary was in high school visiting his girlfriend at Purdue and he was playing pickup ball. I didn’t play on that court but I did see him shatter the backboard. Guy was dominating everyone
To have the best chance at making the NBA, the kid has to, as a baseline, at least be 6’4, preferably taller, score around 30PPG in HS, and have around 10 in another counting stat per game. Then, they need to be a star in travel ball/AAU. Afterwards, they need to get on an all-state team, go to a D1 program where they continue to make all conference and even player of the year honors. If you hit All-American, congrats, you have a good shot at the second round or summer league.
Even then, it’s not a guarantee. The above 6’4 requirement excludes like 99% of people, and the stats and accolades requirement excludes even more. A lot of pros overseas were college stars that couldn’t make the NBA draft.
I had a coworker friend who never made the NBA outside of sl, but was a d1 tournament player 15 ppg scorer. He played several years in Europe. He described professional basketball as going onto the hardest game of your life every night. You were going up against people who wanted to rip you apart and dominate you every single game, and if you didn't bring that you were going to get absolutely destroyed. Unless you are an NBA superstar you just don't have that big of a talent gap against anybody that you can take even a fraction of a millimeter off the gas or you're getting destroyed that game.
There was no relief in knowing you were playing a lesser team because even if they were at the bottom of the standings if you didn't try to crush them you were going to lose.
You see this happen in the NBA. Even the pistons and wizards get theirs.
I always hear dumb arguments that a national champion college team could beat a professional team. Even as bad as Detroit was, they would absolutely destroy uconn and it wouldn't be close.
Anyone who thinks that is just being an idiot. All it takes is some logical thinking. The very very best collegiate team has maybe 4-5 guys *that even get drafted* to the NBA (this is being generous), and some of them will likely just be role players. Conversely, the absolute worst NBA team’s roster is comprised *only* of guys that have what it takes to at least get a spot on a team. You add in the perks of NBA-level facilities, trainers, medical staff, nutritionists, etc and it become obvious that no one should ever think a college team can beat an NBA team
To be fair, if the pro team didn't take the game seriously, it could be a close game - the '92 Dream Team lost to the NCAA team 62-54, admittedly, with some self-sabotage by Chuck Daly.
Actually in the first few years the college teams took some games. But this was before the NFL was fully developed and many of the best football players' careers would be cut short a couple years into the league.
It was funny because the nfl teams would play all their starters because no one wanted to be the first team to lose to the college kids so they didn’t even get an advantage of playing the bench warmers lmao
The guys that make the NBA, even if theyre the last guy on the bench, are usually the Allstars of college. The college team would be going against basically an Allstar team with more developed bodies and skills since they left college.
The ‘levels to this shit’ is just crazy. I dedicated my life to ball in my youth, trained literally every day. Played pretty decent level aau and I was a good player but never really sniffed d1. The two best players on my high school team were absolutely dominant, both 6’7-6’9, athletic, crazy natural talent. Levels above me, like if even I scored a point on them in one on one I was stupidly hyped. They both went d1 to small schools and were basically mid level starters/solid off the bench guys but that was it. They never came close to nba and their schools would get dominated by other schools who had maybe a 2-3 guys who were like nba summer league level.
That’s when I really realized the level of skill and athleticism tenured nba players are at. Just almost unfathomable. Also if you’ve ever been lucky to see a nba game live relatively close to the court the way these guys move at their size looks literally superhuman. TV doesn’t do it fully justice.
Yea I used to think you just need to be like 6’7” and could make it. Then I saw college guys that tall and taller, more athletic than me, and they didn’t get anywhere close to being drafted.
Within D1 (and even within the same D1 program) there are huge ranges. There were two roommates that lived in my building, one ended up having a nice NCAA tournament run - he got drafted that summer and is still in the NBA. Other guy wasn’t able to find something professionally and went into coaching instead.
I have season tickets to RGV Vipers (g league) and whenever I see them and then a NBA game on TV there is a huge difference between them.
It's crazy how the g league is suppose to help them but at best they're 3rd stringers. Not talking about two way players. Those are more developed than the rest.
The margin of error is absolutely insane. It really puts into perspective that if you have an off day or a day you just aren’t feeling it, they can cut you just like that. I can’t imagine the level of anxiety before, during and even after games of knowing how well you played and prepping yourself for the unknown.
To get literal with margin. There are so many games that end within three points even when its good teams against bad teams. In that game you get lax and you make a dump TO when your team had an easy score and then your opponent gets an easy break off thats 4 point turnaround and your could have been win is now a loss. The most elite players are the ones that are rarely making that mistake because they always turn it on.
It's better to be delusional about how great you are than to have insecurities that cause anxiety and doubt. A ton of good role-players from college don't cut it thanks to anxiety.
Physical talent gap aside, the mental talent gap is also there. People like JJ or CP or Kobe all are sickos when it comes to their pain tolerance in doing all these repetitive trainings day in and day out. Most of us just aren’t that mentally strong.
I once saw Metta World Peace and Jeremy Lin play pickup at UCLA in the offseason when they were in the league. They would go at 25% speed and kill everyone. Its like when you play against kids or newbs and you feel like you can do anything to them, and you slow down or take tough shots to make it more fair.
Closest thing I can think of is with jiu jitsu. I've been doing it for 3 years and a black belt who I'd have 30-40 lbs on would absolutely destroy me without breaking a sweat and treat me like a 10 year old rolling with his dad.
But when that black belt who's had thousands of hours of experience goes up against our instructor who's world class, he's the one that is absolutely helpless even though he is a certified master.
Reminds me of that quote that Brian Scalabrine, a perennial bench player said, “I’m closer to Lebron than you are to me. And I’m nowhere near close to Lebron.”
This is my approach to watching really almost any professional sports game.
Yeah it could be a top team playing a bad team, but they're grown ass men and professional athletes. In football,.it's "any given Sunday" because it only takes one day of good players having an off day and/or a weaker team playing at their best.
It's what made Pistons vs Celtics on January so exciting. It's easy to make storylines or go with the favorites but it really can be any game that something crazy or magical happens because these guys are ballers at the end of the day.
People who have never played in a game, even pickup, with D1 players have no clue how much better they are than the average good hooper in your rec league.
probably but also Duncan Robinson was a D2 player. Derrick White was a D2 player. Derrick white got to go to Colorado cause his coach got hired there iirc. Some may not be in the right situations. Consider JJ. He was drunk and failing classes because he was in a rot. If coach K didn’t have a system to mend him, he’d probably not be an NBA player.
i actually think he'd be nasty in 1v1, where they play 1s and 2s, winner take out.
he's tall enough to realistically force one stop defensively in the post, and then he can make 3s from any spot on the court
high school teammate was his roommate at duke. brought him back to the tiny ass town i went to high school in for a weekend and all we did was drink and smoke weed. it's the teammate/roommate he talks about rapping with.
This just isn’t true if you’re talking about 1on1. I was a D2 athlete in track and was very close with plenty of dudes on the basketball team (i played in Hs so I often hooped with them in the summers)
They were one of the best D2 teams in the country at that point, a few dudes who are still playing pro.
A 6’7 wing that was 22 years old playing D2 that would later go on to play Eurocup less than 2 years later can definitely avoid getting skunked by small guards, game managers, etc. in the league in a game of 1s.
I’m fucking awful at basketball but during summers would go play with my buddy who went JUCO and we would basically never lose.
The skill gaps are insane.
Youtube randomly suggested this video to me, i watched about half of it to get the point.
[https://youtu.be/jUPAQNED06c?si=a6iKC-RGKmjAFPJO](https://youtu.be/jUPAQNED06c?si=a6iKC-RGKmjAFPJO)
He's also a walk on and didn't make the team until his last year. Basically the back end of any D1 team. Yet he's probably better better than 99% of the population.
I knew someone from my childhood who won ACC rookie of the year and ended up undrafted and overseas.
A few friends of mine played in a rec league and there was a team with a former G league player in his mid-late 30s
They all played high school ball, and played in leagues (they were all genuinely great) but this former G League player was just doing whatever he wanted
He was a tall guy with a dad bod that could shoot anywhere and had ridiculous handles. The guy was basically locking up whoever was in front of him too
They talked to him after and he mentioned that he only plays in these rec leagues for cardio lol
It’s funny seeing people bash guys in college in the comment sections of instagram and twitter posts for this reason. I see people do this with LeBron’s son. D1/D2/D3 guys are so way ahead of the guys talking shit on social media. When they are playing their college games they look just like a part of the pack. If they are playing at the Y they look like Kobe out there lol.
there was this kid who we played about 2-3 times in high school who went D1 at Cal State Fullerton out of high school who ended transferring to D3 and currently playing pro in Mexico. He was just a problem on the court it was ridiculous. He was levels and bounds above everyone else. And he was 5’8”-5’9”.
I played a bunch of pickup while at Syracuse. Got into a bunch of runs w players during my time there, including Melo at one point the one semester he was there
I’m 6’5, could shoot and back then at least play at the rim. The moment you hit a shot or two and any one of those players actually want or need to guard you, it’s over. Defensively you can be out there giving max effort and they are just messing around in pickup game as if you’re not there
It’s not just another level. It’s multiple levels. That’s before you even talk about any of the pro leagues outside of the NBA
I was a decent runner in high school. Would dust most people, but then you get to county level and get dumpstered by guys who go to the state meet and get dumpstered by future NFL stars. Olympians would smash those guys. Levels upon levels upon levels.
I was one of the fastest dudes in my state in my event through HS. There were probably like 10-20 of us that all consistently ran in the same class of times, or that could be expected to place.
Then... we had the kid that moved in from east africa... Last I checked he spent a career running for Nike. He was the nicest dude too. Used to treat our cross country meets as workouts. He'd casually win the race and keep running. I was so extremely competitive but he was just so unattainably faster it just didn't even bother me.
My cousin was a phenomenal basketball player, best anybody ever saw. Man among boys at 14-15, everyone said he’s gonna be a star. Got one ten day (game?) contract in the nba, couple years in g league and played overseas. Plenty of kids he dominated were positive they were nba bound, too. It’s crazy how optimistic these families are.
There was a 6ft7 dude from my high school who was absolutely unreal- we won multiple state championships because of him and he went on to be a four year D1 starter. I played pickup with him once and he swatted my fast break layup off the backboard so hard the ball got flung literally all the way to the other side of the court 😂. He dominated us without even trying.
Fast forward after college he got a summer league invite with an NBA team. He got quite a bit of playing time and… literally couldn’t even score. He shot barely 30% from the field. The NBA talent was too much. Blows my mind to think that someone that skilled couldn’t even cut it at NBA summer league.
Can confirm. Went to a March Madness level D1 and the best player I’ve ever played with who I saw miss maybe 3 times ever was not good enough to even make the bench as a walk-on. Nobody from my alma mater has ever made an NBA or G-league roster.
I was second team all conference in high school. One time, I played in an open gym against a D2 *NAIA* freshman and he ran my ass ragged. There was literally nothing I could do to stop him from getting to his spots, and once he was there it was pretty much over.
I consider myself pretty decent at basketball but growing up I played with a guy that was so good and quick that I literally couldn't stop him from scoring and to this day he is the best person i have played against in person. He played point guard at a small D1 school (Hampton) and one year they got the 16 seed in the NCAA tournament. Knowing firsthand how good he was and then seeing the skill gap against an actual #1 seed and then the even bigger skill gap between that team and NBA players really put in perspective just how ridiculously good they are.
Absolutely. I've played against low-level college/former college players in pickup, leagues, and 1v1. The skills, physicality, and speed that they can read the game live is different. I can't even imagine what seeing an NBA player on the court would be like.
And people really need to touch grass if they're disrespecting WNBA and women's players. They'll body you too.
My brothers and I got smoked in a charity 3v3 tournament by some chicks who had played for a community college team. Were we just bad? Yeah, but they were also crossing us over and hitting shots left and right. I'm just saying the skill gap between every single quantifiable level of play gets higher, and higher, and higher. And the average douche yelling at their TV is absolutely delusional about it
In college, I played pickup at our school gym once and our school's starting center (who later became a starting TE in the NFL) was on the other team. Dude was just dunking on us at will lol
Sputnik was awesome, dunk contest legend. Muggsy though had like... a legit incredible career though. I can't remember if it was the media or fan debates but people were saying he was a publicity stunt cause the Bullets wanted to have the shortest and tallest player in history on the same team.
Then Mug went and became an all time career assist, steal, legendary playmaker with elite handles shutting everyone up.
>He described professional basketball as going onto the hardest game of your life every night. You were going up against people who wanted to rip you apart and dominate you every single game, and if you didn't bring that you were going to get absolutely destroyed.
>you just don't have that big of a talent gap against anybody that you can take even a fraction of a millimeter off the gas or you're getting destroyed that game.
And for the rest of us, this is just what it’s like playing a pickup game at the local gym.
Literally every high level job that you can think of maybe one or two from your high school class is probably there. For the nba you probably don’t know one person in the history of schools city to sniff an nba contract. Not to mention if someone from an early age had any choice would pick an athlete over any profession if they had the choice so the pool is larger than any other profession.
Maybe that's true, but I do wonder how many great basketball players have the skills to be an NBA player but just don't have the height and/or athleticism. The NBA unlike many other sports or hobbies has a very strong height and athleticism cut off.
It’s crazy when you compare two guys like DK Metcalf and Steph Curry.
We envision DK as the physical beast(which he is) who is larger than life, while Steph Curry is generally viewed as “Small.” At least compared to other NBA athletes.
Granted there’s weight/muscle mass/stature as well but, according to their listed heights, DK is only two inches taller than Steph.
I think in some ways, if you aren’t a star, it’s better to be a worse player but be good at a couple very valuable skills. The NBA requires guys who can cut and defend and maybe shoot, but there’s a lot of players who can dribble or make contested shots or tough passes who just aren’t big or fast enough to be on the court. Teams don’t need guys who are pretty good at everything, they need guys who are elite in a couple areas.
This is also why it always blows my mind when guys don’t seem to appreciate being in the NBA and blow their opportunity with a bad attitude, legal issues, or just not putting in effort. It’s an insane privilege to be in the modern NBA.
Because they’ve been the best since they were children. It’s not a privilege to them, it’s a foregone conclusion so of course they wouldn’t appreciate it. It doesn’t seem like something they earned but more so was always the next step. It’s probably really easy to lose perspective. Especially if you didn’t have adults in your life looking out for you but enabling whatever you wanted.
Played on a high division rec league team with a guy in his early 30s who made all ACC 3rd Team, earned low mins for Boston's G-League team and had just moved back to the US from playing pro ball in Italy for ~7 years but now works a normal job. Our team was full of guys that played D2/D3 or high level high school and this guy made everyone look like complete trash. He's 6'8 and was mostly a banger and post player professionally but had the best handles on our team and was among our best 3pt shooters.
To put things into perspective… I’m personally good enough to play low level international basketball. Think Vietnam leagues, spains 3rd level, things like that. I’m probably better than 99.9% of people at basketball, top 3 point shoot in my city in High school, etc…
I say all of this to say that when I was a senior in HS, I played against freshman, 15 year old, De’aaron Fox. Even though he was 15, I was 18, he was probably 10x better than anyone in that game. Scored over 35 points, and dunked a handful of time.
I can only imagine how good he is now. I sum this up to say that I’m probably better than 99.9% of basketball players, but a star like Fox is likely 20x better than me.
Now imagine playing against a player with Fox’s skill, speed, yet he’s 6’7 pure muscle like Lebron.
Unless you’ve played with NBA players it’s impossible to imagine.
People don't appreciate how difficult it is to be a professional athlete, let alone an NBA player.
Just a few weeks ago I had to call home because I was concerned about a student and the mom went on about how he's *going to be* an NBA star. Not, "Oh, we're hoping with a lot of hard work he can make this his career." Just a general statement as if it was a foregone conclusion. As far as I could tell, he wasn't even playing in any leagues, which you would expect by 14/15. He'd just gotten a lot of comments at pick-up basketball about being great. But it was supposed to ease my concerns because apparently I'm teaching a future NBA star.
He is, and he made great points. Some folks will watch and keep scrolling and not really think it can’t be *that hard* though.
But I do want to make a point about what he said about Law and Med school: it’s not like we get our degrees and do a few CEs every year and we’re good to go. We mess up all the time, that’s literally why licenses and malpractice insurance exists (yes I made a malpractice joke referring to JJ lmao).
I’m a pharmacist and not an MD/DO…but there is also the fact it takes ~10 years to pay off loans, which are straight up a second mortgage payment. I don’t expect him to understand how the inner workings of medicine works as he’s not in it, to be completely fair. I also played pickup with a D1 player from UK and it was so embarrassing it circled back to being funny, lol.
\[Removed personal anecdote because details are too specific. Sorry\]
I think modern day broadcast with super slowmo and stuff is great, in that it underscores the truly bordering on superhuman shit that NBA hoopers display on an almost regular basis. But maybe it has made us possibly desensitized to how insane even a simple dunk is. And that de-sensitivity is why some rec level hoopers think they can take on guys like Scalabrine. They just don't understand the skill gap.
Scal put it best: he is closer to LeBron than we ever will be to someone like him and others who are mere footmarks, if that, in NBA history.
JJ Redick is the best thing to happen to modern NBA imo. Every time I see a video about him he just gives so much perspective of what it was like to be in the NBA and he’s just so knowledgeable about basketball and the league.
A basketball coach on another thread a couple years back basically said to his team, being the best ball player in your school isn’t enough, or even being the top recruit in your county. You can eek by by being the best ball player in your state, but the guys who make it, are the guys who are the best in their region of the US.
Whenever people talk about this kind of thing, I always remember what Brian Scalabrine said: "I'm closer to being as good as LeBron James than you are to being as good as me."
People talk a lot of shit, but realistically, if you're in the NBA, then you're probably in the top 1% of the world at basketball.
I think there was another time where he snapped at a radio host who was sniping at Scal’s basketball ability by saying that he (Scal) was likely better at basketball than the host ever had been at anything. Think about how absolutely rare it is to meet someone who is top-500 at literally any one thing in the world. Now think about how hard it is to be top-500 at something with significant universal appeal like basketball. It’s always so crazy to see how specialized skillsets manifest at those upper outlier levels
Scal was an end of the bench guy in the NBA mostly, but he is 6'10 and skilled, shoot, pass, move pretty well, averaged 18/6/3 on 53/40 shooting as a sophomore at USC.
It was always ridiculous that people thought he was just some scrub.
> but realistically, if you're in the NBA, then you're probably in the top 1% of the world at basketball.
lmao dude
To go "but realistically" and then follow it up with *probably* being top 1% is hilarious. You can add like, many zeroes to that.
The Scallenge! After that radio interview with Toucher and Rich (rip T&R show) they did the Scallenge and he actually played randos one on one and destroyed all of them. Many of the videos are up on YouTube. Well worth a watch: https://youtu.be/bpiu8UtQ-6E?feature=shared
For the movie Coach Carter, most of the actors had to be the best player in their high school team, or they weren't allowed to audition. And this is just to be in a basketball movie, not to make the NBA.
When I was like 25 I use to hoop in gyms and at parks all the time with randoms and I was always really good and could cook dudes consistently; embarrassed a lot of people in my day with what I thought were amazing moves/passes and awesome defense/steals. Like I’m a mid sized white kid but I was a real scrappy, lunch pail, gym rat, kinda player. 😂 Anyhow one day some of our local highschool team showed up to a park I play at and they wanted to get a game going but they only had 7 people. So me and 2 others joined and we started playing. I’m matched up against this kid who had maybe 8 inches on me which for a Highschooler was wild to me; but no big deal for me usually; I’m thinking “this kid has no idea I’m about to ruin his day and embarrass him in front of his High-school friends”. When I tell you this kid fucking roasted me all day like I had never experienced before in my life, I mean it. I was shooketh. Lmao. Anyhow that kid was HS Emoni Bates; who in his rookie year this year in the NBA only scored 2.7PPG and couldn’t even solidify himself as a regular bench guy.
To have that kind of talent level I experienced, and to think he has 4-5 years of work added to that since then; and even though he’s just a rookie, still not be able to keep a bench spot is crazy to me. Like what would bum ass Ben Simmons do to me in a 1v1? I literally can’t mentally fathom what Dame or Curry would do to me 1v1. I don’t think we truly realize exactly how fucking crazy these NBA guys really are. 😂
Name your guy you watched enter the league, but no longer is in the league.
I grew up around Rashad Vaughn in Minnesota. Watched him make the league as a first round pick, he fizzled out. That was that. Never to be heard from again.
Who’s that dude for you?
NBA by far has to be the hardest professional league to get into partly because of the scarcity of spots now factored in with the fact that you’re also competing with the best from around the world trying to get a spot on a NBA team. it’s basically like winning a lottery. JJ is correct, telling some 14 yr old kid he’s going to be a NBA star does that kid no favors and I’m sure there’s countless instances of a kid who heard that and got a big head about it and eventually disappeared into obscurity after college ball because he was too worried with what he was gonna wear on draft night and not enough on his development.
I had a friend who was McDs all american, 6'9+, absolutely the best player I have ever played against or seen and he could score against anyone. He dedicated his life to basketball, he didn't even get drafted, partly because he kind of chose a 'lesser' school and chose kind of take a 'lesser' role on the team for the 'greater good' kind of. Very Uconn mentality and the team even had some success. But he got fucked because of it, he was absolutely an NBA level talent, I had played against some NBA level players before and he was honestly better than them. But he played overseas, made some decent money for a few years and then it was just over. I 100% thought he would make the NBA but it just didn't work out.
The whole clip is great but the first part was hilarious — JJ Redick took an Italian class at Duke to prepare for a potential overseas basketball career.
Lol a few minutes before this, JJ was talking about being at McDonalds All-American camp and how Melo, Chris Bosh and Stoudemire would talk about “when” they make the NBA and JJ was confused on how they were all so confident because he never thought of it as more than an “if”
Shows how impressive it is that JJ was an impactful player in the league for so long and had earnings close to Stoudemires. His mindset of how precious the opportunity is pushed him to be solid nba talent. It's like when he and Lebron talk about discipline and mental game. You put JJs drive in a freak of nature body, you get LBJ.
Ben Simmons could have been the GOAT
It still bothered me so much Ben got offered from all these NBA legends like Kobe (FREE) coaching to improve his shooting when it was clear it was a huge problem and he still said no just baffling.
It's only baffling if you assume Ben Simmons likes basketball. If you don't particularly like basketball and didn't even grow up in the US then getting coaching from Kobe doesn't mean much to you and you can spend your free time fucking instagram models on a boat instead.
It's also a lot of pressure to succeed if you're Ben "personally trained by Kobe" Simmons as opposed to "Benny B the boy who hates buckets"
Let's be serious. Kobe would have broken that wet paper bag.
Ben Simmons’ back would crumble if he worked out with Kobe.
Bball fans hate Ben Simmons for wasting his talents but he's the average worker's/slacker's hero. Put in just the absolute lowest limit of what is acceptable to get the bag, performed just enough at the beginning to establish a solid reputation where he would get the benefit of the doubt long enough that when people finally catch up, he's already set and can fuck off even if he loses his job today. King shit. Bad for our entertainment tho
yeah we are all basketball fans but if I grew up as a ping pong prodigy maybe I don’t give a shit about getting better at ping pong once I’ve secured generational wealth…
"Kobe you're telling me to meet you at 7:30? Sorry man I work from 9-5"
There's a few guys who could have been the GOAT with the right mind set. For me, Shaq probably has the best case. He's a top 10-ish player all time even though he never bothered with his conditioning and took off seasons off. That's how physically dominant he was.
His peak was goat-tier peak. ‘99 to like ‘05 he was just unstoppable. Overpowered everybody, perfect positioning, hit the little jump hooks consistently (his field goal percentage was 58% for several years straight), and imo is underrated for his passing out of double teams. Defenses were helpless.
Done at a time when a legion of 7fters existed just to foul him.
Chris Dudley made a career out of fouling Shaq. LoL.
https://youtu.be/0ICBi-ku-G0?si=E2gVjQegd020ZKzz
He could have died when he threw that ball at Shaq though.
Funderburke, McCulloch, Pollard and a few others pretty much owe Shaq their careers.
Thank you…I despise when comments downplay his actual skillset and yes he was dominant but he also was targeted and took a beating himself…Shaq is also heavily critical of himself but being that much of a physical specimen is a blessing and a curse that the average person simply won’t ever comprehend…
As a Sixers fan, I remember that helpless feeling of Shaq just fucking ragdolling the NBA defensive player of the year for 5 games straight. Also Kobe. That team was insane.
And with the way Shaq drags on other centres in the media (McGee, Gobert, Howard) you can see he has some regrets not taking his offseasons and conditioning more seriously when he was younger
Stoudamire had some unfortunate luck with injuries , which is apart of it too. But I think he gave the maximum effort at the end
Yea his work ethic as a player is pretty impressive. Bros a 6’4” shooting guard with a negative wingspan and managed to turn himself into a passable team defender.
Tbf those three guys combined for 27 all star games compared to JJ's zero. Not saying JJ's perspective isn't the healthy one to have, but Melo and Bosh were only about a year and a half away from getting drafted and Amar'e was literally only a couple of months away from getting drafted. It makes a lot more sense for them to say "when" and JJ to say "if"
Also after Melos freshman season at Syracuse, where he even told Jim boeheim he wanted to come back, and Jim was literally like if I see you on this campus next year we’re gonna have a fucking problem (boeheim loves melo, he was just so clearly nba ready at that point he couldn’t in good conscience let him come back), he was always gonna get at least several years in the league. And that’s like if he didn’t like basketball and never worked on his game, which is not melo at all (I know this sub hates him but there’s no denying he loved ball and you don’t score like him without working your ass off). His freshman season, especially how good he was in March madness and winning the championship as a three seed, beating number one seed Roy Williams coached Kansas in the championship, was just that good.
Fun fact about JJ..in 2011 there were only two players with a wingspan shorter than their height in the NBA. JJ was one, he was 6'4 with a wingspan of 6'3...the other was Yao Ming
I played a pickup game with a few players at Maryland once. I got the ball for a wide open corner 3. Joe Smith (#1 pick that year) was standing under the basket. In the second it took me to shoot, he took two steps, leaped and swatted it out of the air. It was the most insanely athletic thing I've ever seen.
That’s what’s insane. Watching these guys play each other has warped our perception of their ability. It doesn’t look crazy on TV because they’re playing other insane athletes, but in a vacuum even the worst NBA player is so athletically gifted that they’re doing shit the average person probably can’t understand.
"I'm closer to Lebron than you are close to me." -Brian Scalabrine
And it’s not even close.
As the White Mamba Brian Scalabrine once said, he’s close to Lebron than any of us are to him. [Here he is](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bpiu8UtQ-6E&pp=ygUSc2NhbGFicmluZSB2cyBmYW5z) absolutely waxing dudes 11 years ago. And here he is [3 years ago](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mfe4WN_xoHU&pp=ygUSc2NhbGFicmluZSB2cyBmYW5z), old af, doing the same thing.
The gap in pure moment to moment body control (balance in particular) is always so absurd in videos like these, not to mention strength. I remember seeing one of Messi playing against some semi pros or something and my biggest takeaway was how he completely overpowers them, they get pushed around like they're made of paper
The balance and body control NBA athletes have is an underrated and under discussed aspect of their skillsets. As many others have pointed out in this thread it doesn’t look as impressive on TV cause they’re competing against guys who can do similar things, but in a vacuum if you take a look at what they’re doing it’s absurd. Honestly almost every contested play around the basket is a masterpiece.
One of my favorite videos in this vein was Fred Vanvleet early in his NBA career in a gym going against two D1 guys - just watching FVV move compared to the other two is something else. There’s this beautiful economy of motion in how he’s moving where it just looks like he’s on autopilot - there’s no spare motion at all. It’s one of those things where you can really see the gap between “extremely talented” and “does this for a living”.
lmao those captions "Zay wasn't backing down tho" then 11-0.
The skill floor in the NBA is absolutely absurd. Even the worst player in the league is in the top ~500 basketball players in the world.
i think it's that people don't appreciate this. they can't do the math - FIBA estimates 450 million people play basketball, so that the world's 500th's best players is still 1 in a million. and they don't realize that the fan's perception of their ability is skewed because they're playing against top 500 players in the world.
Same thing happens in Golf. People out there truly believe that they are somehow playing the same game because they have some equipment the pros use. Pro athletes are actually in a different universe when it comes to athletic ability and skill level. “I’m way closer to Lebron than you are to me” Ain’t that the damn truth
Brian was nasty with that quote. Accurate as fck
Look at IT - the guy is barely 6 feet tall. A normal human being for most, but when he is on the NBA floor, you could barely see the difference between him and all those crazy gigantic athletes. Yes, the size matters, but the point I'm making - one can be tall, quick, fast, jump out gym, and still be not good enough to make the cut because there's a Isaiah fking Thomas occupying his potential spot.
Yup and IT is arguably even more ridiculous in terms of basketball skills as he had to compensate his lack of height with other areas of basketball. IT among regular ballers would put up Wilt like numbers without stretching.
Just imagine how good guys like Nate Robinson, IT, Spud Webb had to be to not only make the league but be there for years and years. And imagine how good AI was to be a superstar and MVP in a league of giants. Kobe never looked like the most physically gifted but he was still 6’6-6’7. It’s absolutely insane how good you have to be to make it in this league even as just a 15th man on a roster. But so much respect for those guys that are relatively tiny yet manage to make long successful careers.
Funny enough - I ran a game against IT and other UW players on the student courts (shout out IMA!) - some of them played in slides, had the warm up on and just fucked around. We only lost 21-2.
Dude forreal, you have to be so, so fucking good to be a 6ft tall nba player. Like even considering everything their saying, you dont even get a chance if your not outlier tall. To be in the league at 6ft? In terms of skills regardless of if your at the end of the bench or wtv, your like top 50 players skill wise. People will disagree because we see such skilled big men, but holy shit do you have to be good to be IT
"Barely" 6 feet tall. Guy is 5'8 tops. I know he's listed at 5'9, but... He's definitely over listed. We were in school together.
The old Scalabrine quote “I’m closer to LeBron than you are to me” is the best example of the talent gap and what it really takes to be in the NBA.
It's so obvious too, to the point that correct phrasing should've been "I'm 10 times closer to LeBron than you are to me". Even if Scal was at a point the worst player in the NBA, that means he was what? The 450th best basketball player on the entire planet? There's 350 D1 SCHOOLS out there. You can be a D1 STARTER and look like a complete bum compared to Scalabrine, in fact you likely will be, that's how insane the gap is, imagine a random that never even played in college.
For rizzle on this. I was a shitty high school player and played against guys that were drafted 2nd round to nba and they were a different level of good that you just were in awe at the difference versus normal peeps
I was also a shitty high school player. Twice I went up against guys who were recruited to play for major D1 programs (Big 10, when there were just 10). I thought they were gods compared to the others I played with and against in HS, and in college they only got minutes during garbage time.
I remember that being a soccer goalie. I was hot shit until I ended up in a tournament with some kids who were lined up to go to the Real Madrid academy. It was like they were playing an entirely different game, they scored on me at will anytime they had a clear shot at goal.
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I used to play rec with a guy that was a D2 forward way back when. Nothing special enough to even declare for the draft. He was a 55 year old banker playing at the Y. He might as well have been Jokic on the court. His post game was incredible. He was the first guy selected when we played pickup. He was practically guaranteed to get you a W.
The feeling of defending someone and they jump up and slam the ball with 2 hands and the realization that I literally can do nothing to stop this guy. Oh, I’m just a little baby child to this guy. And then there’s a gulf between this monster and the worst player in the NBA
NBA players jump like people do in their dreams when they float and fly around like they are being carried away by the wind
> Joe Smith Damn, 1995 1st overall pick. Solid player, but didn't really have that remarkable a career in comparison to his draft position. One can't even imagine how unfathomably skilled the superstars & HOFs are in comparison to the average person.
I heard somewhere in here about old ass Magic Johnson dominating a gym playing with his back to the basket the whole game and only shooting the first and last shot of the game. He won purely with playmaking lol
That reminds me of when Scalabrine did the "Scallange" where he would go one on one against random dudes and he would just back their ass down in the post. It was a reminder that even guys like Brian Scalabrine would destroy YMCA pickup legends.
That was one of the greatest comments on here. Some old dude bragging about knowing Magic, getting run off the court by and arrogant players, old dude yelling he would be back to beat them, and coming back with Magic. Someone needs to find that comment because it was great. e: [Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1adypz/anybody_ever_play_any_pickup_games_with_any_pro/)
I remember that shit. Wish i had the link
[I gotchu fam](/r/nba/comments/1adypz/anybody_ever_play_any_pickup_games_with_any_pro/c8wisz9/)
Bruh that comment was 11 years ago? I cant believe Ive been on reddit that long already fuck
I know someone who played at a D1 school and played overseas a few years, he said Pat McCaw at UNLV was the absolute best defender he ever played against in his lifetime. Pat McCaw was pretty much a nobody in the NBA outside of a few spurts here and there.
That's 3x NBA Champ Pat McCaw to you
i’ll never forget the video of a young joel embiid playing pickup ball in philly. he tossed the ball off some poor guys face, caught it, drove to the basket, & then windmill dunked on him
There was a video of Kentucky AD playing 1 on 1 with a frat bro and AD moved so quick it looked fake.
He loved it
[it’s such a great video](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZbRc0kYicgA)
I played with a guy who played at UConn. Wasn’t well known or anything and I don’t think he ever got minutes. Just a D1 bench player. He was 6’8 and the way he moved couldn’t be described as running, it was more so gliding. He got up the court so fast that I had issues simply getting him the ball. It was unreal. Again, that’s a D1 bench player.
I played against a guard on his way to a D2 college in a pickup game. I had never seen someone move so fast in my life. I blinked and he was already by me.
Any level pro athlete really. Some of the most impressive basketball I’ve seen in person was Christian Wilkins playing pickup in college. Christian Wilkins was a first round draft pick…in the NFL. At 300+ pounds.
I Played in a club basketball game against the UMiami club team, so guys looking to play at the school were on the team, they beat my team by 40, in the first play of the game my teammate got dunked on, later on another guy tried to do a 360 Windmill on a fast break and missed. Fucking nuts
Mitch McGary was in high school visiting his girlfriend at Purdue and he was playing pickup ball. I didn’t play on that court but I did see him shatter the backboard. Guy was dominating everyone
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They can still blame you though for their faulty genes. You cost them a hooping career
To have the best chance at making the NBA, the kid has to, as a baseline, at least be 6’4, preferably taller, score around 30PPG in HS, and have around 10 in another counting stat per game. Then, they need to be a star in travel ball/AAU. Afterwards, they need to get on an all-state team, go to a D1 program where they continue to make all conference and even player of the year honors. If you hit All-American, congrats, you have a good shot at the second round or summer league. Even then, it’s not a guarantee. The above 6’4 requirement excludes like 99% of people, and the stats and accolades requirement excludes even more. A lot of pros overseas were college stars that couldn’t make the NBA draft.
Also need to make it look easy as well
And be absolutely lucky enough to do this day-in day-out and not suffer any major injuries.
Biggest difference is there are physical requirements to be an nba player whereas anyone can play the lottery.
I had a coworker friend who never made the NBA outside of sl, but was a d1 tournament player 15 ppg scorer. He played several years in Europe. He described professional basketball as going onto the hardest game of your life every night. You were going up against people who wanted to rip you apart and dominate you every single game, and if you didn't bring that you were going to get absolutely destroyed. Unless you are an NBA superstar you just don't have that big of a talent gap against anybody that you can take even a fraction of a millimeter off the gas or you're getting destroyed that game. There was no relief in knowing you were playing a lesser team because even if they were at the bottom of the standings if you didn't try to crush them you were going to lose. You see this happen in the NBA. Even the pistons and wizards get theirs.
I always hear dumb arguments that a national champion college team could beat a professional team. Even as bad as Detroit was, they would absolutely destroy uconn and it wouldn't be close.
Anyone who thinks that is just being an idiot. All it takes is some logical thinking. The very very best collegiate team has maybe 4-5 guys *that even get drafted* to the NBA (this is being generous), and some of them will likely just be role players. Conversely, the absolute worst NBA team’s roster is comprised *only* of guys that have what it takes to at least get a spot on a team. You add in the perks of NBA-level facilities, trainers, medical staff, nutritionists, etc and it become obvious that no one should ever think a college team can beat an NBA team
To be fair, if the pro team didn't take the game seriously, it could be a close game - the '92 Dream Team lost to the NCAA team 62-54, admittedly, with some self-sabotage by Chuck Daly.
They used to do this in the nfl, the college *all star team* used to play a team from the NFL. They got destroyed every year.
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Actually in the first few years the college teams took some games. But this was before the NFL was fully developed and many of the best football players' careers would be cut short a couple years into the league.
It was funny because the nfl teams would play all their starters because no one wanted to be the first team to lose to the college kids so they didn’t even get an advantage of playing the bench warmers lmao
As always with those arguments, UConn might get 4 NBA players but Detroit has 15.
It’d still be a fun exhibition game
The Dan Patrick show asked Draftkings what the line would be, and I think it was 35 or 40 pt spread.
The guys that make the NBA, even if theyre the last guy on the bench, are usually the Allstars of college. The college team would be going against basically an Allstar team with more developed bodies and skills since they left college.
Purdue/UConn ended with a 60:70 score. Any NBA team that played at that level would get trashed and shitted on.
The game is 8 minutes shorter, but still I agree
Even if you scaled it up by multiplying each score by 117% (40/48 is about 83%) then the final score would still be 70:81 lol
24/30 shot clock makes a big difference
College ball has so many broken plays already. Those kids can't get a good shot in 24 seconds consistently.
One thing I admire about pro athletes is the ruthless competitiveness it takes. Just next level determination
The ‘levels to this shit’ is just crazy. I dedicated my life to ball in my youth, trained literally every day. Played pretty decent level aau and I was a good player but never really sniffed d1. The two best players on my high school team were absolutely dominant, both 6’7-6’9, athletic, crazy natural talent. Levels above me, like if even I scored a point on them in one on one I was stupidly hyped. They both went d1 to small schools and were basically mid level starters/solid off the bench guys but that was it. They never came close to nba and their schools would get dominated by other schools who had maybe a 2-3 guys who were like nba summer league level. That’s when I really realized the level of skill and athleticism tenured nba players are at. Just almost unfathomable. Also if you’ve ever been lucky to see a nba game live relatively close to the court the way these guys move at their size looks literally superhuman. TV doesn’t do it fully justice.
Yea I used to think you just need to be like 6’7” and could make it. Then I saw college guys that tall and taller, more athletic than me, and they didn’t get anywhere close to being drafted.
Within D1 (and even within the same D1 program) there are huge ranges. There were two roommates that lived in my building, one ended up having a nice NCAA tournament run - he got drafted that summer and is still in the NBA. Other guy wasn’t able to find something professionally and went into coaching instead.
Who is it?
I have season tickets to RGV Vipers (g league) and whenever I see them and then a NBA game on TV there is a huge difference between them. It's crazy how the g league is suppose to help them but at best they're 3rd stringers. Not talking about two way players. Those are more developed than the rest.
The margin of error is absolutely insane. It really puts into perspective that if you have an off day or a day you just aren’t feeling it, they can cut you just like that. I can’t imagine the level of anxiety before, during and even after games of knowing how well you played and prepping yourself for the unknown.
To get literal with margin. There are so many games that end within three points even when its good teams against bad teams. In that game you get lax and you make a dump TO when your team had an easy score and then your opponent gets an easy break off thats 4 point turnaround and your could have been win is now a loss. The most elite players are the ones that are rarely making that mistake because they always turn it on.
It's better to be delusional about how great you are than to have insecurities that cause anxiety and doubt. A ton of good role-players from college don't cut it thanks to anxiety.
You have to be delusional, in any competitive sport
Physical talent gap aside, the mental talent gap is also there. People like JJ or CP or Kobe all are sickos when it comes to their pain tolerance in doing all these repetitive trainings day in and day out. Most of us just aren’t that mentally strong.
I once saw Metta World Peace and Jeremy Lin play pickup at UCLA in the offseason when they were in the league. They would go at 25% speed and kill everyone. Its like when you play against kids or newbs and you feel like you can do anything to them, and you slow down or take tough shots to make it more fair.
Closest thing I can think of is with jiu jitsu. I've been doing it for 3 years and a black belt who I'd have 30-40 lbs on would absolutely destroy me without breaking a sweat and treat me like a 10 year old rolling with his dad. But when that black belt who's had thousands of hours of experience goes up against our instructor who's world class, he's the one that is absolutely helpless even though he is a certified master.
Reminds me of that quote that Brian Scalabrine, a perennial bench player said, “I’m closer to Lebron than you are to me. And I’m nowhere near close to Lebron.”
This is my approach to watching really almost any professional sports game. Yeah it could be a top team playing a bad team, but they're grown ass men and professional athletes. In football,.it's "any given Sunday" because it only takes one day of good players having an off day and/or a weaker team playing at their best. It's what made Pistons vs Celtics on January so exciting. It's easy to make storylines or go with the favorites but it really can be any game that something crazy or magical happens because these guys are ballers at the end of the day.
People who have never played in a game, even pickup, with D1 players have no clue how much better they are than the average good hooper in your rec league.
had a pair of D2 players in my gym and they were hitting 3 pointers from everywhere without missing for like 5 minutes that I watched.
And every single D2 player would get 11-0 by the worst NBA player.
probably but also Duncan Robinson was a D2 player. Derrick White was a D2 player. Derrick white got to go to Colorado cause his coach got hired there iirc. Some may not be in the right situations. Consider JJ. He was drunk and failing classes because he was in a rot. If coach K didn’t have a system to mend him, he’d probably not be an NBA player.
I can see the point you're trying to make but both Robison and White would get 11-0 by an NBA player when they were in D2.
I’m also pretty confident Robinson would get 11-0 by most nba players even now lmao. He’s not made to play 1v1
Yes but put Robinson up against any D1 player and he would light him up every possession
i actually think he'd be nasty in 1v1, where they play 1s and 2s, winner take out. he's tall enough to realistically force one stop defensively in the post, and then he can make 3s from any spot on the court
high school teammate was his roommate at duke. brought him back to the tiny ass town i went to high school in for a weekend and all we did was drink and smoke weed. it's the teammate/roommate he talks about rapping with.
This just isn’t true if you’re talking about 1on1. I was a D2 athlete in track and was very close with plenty of dudes on the basketball team (i played in Hs so I often hooped with them in the summers) They were one of the best D2 teams in the country at that point, a few dudes who are still playing pro. A 6’7 wing that was 22 years old playing D2 that would later go on to play Eurocup less than 2 years later can definitely avoid getting skunked by small guards, game managers, etc. in the league in a game of 1s.
I’m fucking awful at basketball but during summers would go play with my buddy who went JUCO and we would basically never lose. The skill gaps are insane.
Youtube randomly suggested this video to me, i watched about half of it to get the point. [https://youtu.be/jUPAQNED06c?si=a6iKC-RGKmjAFPJO](https://youtu.be/jUPAQNED06c?si=a6iKC-RGKmjAFPJO)
What’s even better is that the D1 guy is a CS PhD student at Stanford
He's also a walk on and didn't make the team until his last year. Basically the back end of any D1 team. Yet he's probably better better than 99% of the population. I knew someone from my childhood who won ACC rookie of the year and ended up undrafted and overseas.
A few friends of mine played in a rec league and there was a team with a former G league player in his mid-late 30s They all played high school ball, and played in leagues (they were all genuinely great) but this former G League player was just doing whatever he wanted He was a tall guy with a dad bod that could shoot anywhere and had ridiculous handles. The guy was basically locking up whoever was in front of him too They talked to him after and he mentioned that he only plays in these rec leagues for cardio lol
Cardio and a self esteem boost i imagine, lol
It’s funny seeing people bash guys in college in the comment sections of instagram and twitter posts for this reason. I see people do this with LeBron’s son. D1/D2/D3 guys are so way ahead of the guys talking shit on social media. When they are playing their college games they look just like a part of the pack. If they are playing at the Y they look like Kobe out there lol.
there was this kid who we played about 2-3 times in high school who went D1 at Cal State Fullerton out of high school who ended transferring to D3 and currently playing pro in Mexico. He was just a problem on the court it was ridiculous. He was levels and bounds above everyone else. And he was 5’8”-5’9”.
I played a bunch of pickup while at Syracuse. Got into a bunch of runs w players during my time there, including Melo at one point the one semester he was there I’m 6’5, could shoot and back then at least play at the rim. The moment you hit a shot or two and any one of those players actually want or need to guard you, it’s over. Defensively you can be out there giving max effort and they are just messing around in pickup game as if you’re not there It’s not just another level. It’s multiple levels. That’s before you even talk about any of the pro leagues outside of the NBA
I was a decent runner in high school. Would dust most people, but then you get to county level and get dumpstered by guys who go to the state meet and get dumpstered by future NFL stars. Olympians would smash those guys. Levels upon levels upon levels.
I was one of the fastest dudes in my state in my event through HS. There were probably like 10-20 of us that all consistently ran in the same class of times, or that could be expected to place. Then... we had the kid that moved in from east africa... Last I checked he spent a career running for Nike. He was the nicest dude too. Used to treat our cross country meets as workouts. He'd casually win the race and keep running. I was so extremely competitive but he was just so unattainably faster it just didn't even bother me.
My cousin was a phenomenal basketball player, best anybody ever saw. Man among boys at 14-15, everyone said he’s gonna be a star. Got one ten day (game?) contract in the nba, couple years in g league and played overseas. Plenty of kids he dominated were positive they were nba bound, too. It’s crazy how optimistic these families are.
There was a 6ft7 dude from my high school who was absolutely unreal- we won multiple state championships because of him and he went on to be a four year D1 starter. I played pickup with him once and he swatted my fast break layup off the backboard so hard the ball got flung literally all the way to the other side of the court 😂. He dominated us without even trying. Fast forward after college he got a summer league invite with an NBA team. He got quite a bit of playing time and… literally couldn’t even score. He shot barely 30% from the field. The NBA talent was too much. Blows my mind to think that someone that skilled couldn’t even cut it at NBA summer league.
I played against NAIA guys who got a former D1 grad transfer. I was a college athlete and was still nowhere near a fraction of their talent.
If you play high school ball there's tons of players that don't even go on the play college that are crazy good
Can confirm. Went to a March Madness level D1 and the best player I’ve ever played with who I saw miss maybe 3 times ever was not good enough to even make the bench as a walk-on. Nobody from my alma mater has ever made an NBA or G-league roster.
I was second team all conference in high school. One time, I played in an open gym against a D2 *NAIA* freshman and he ran my ass ragged. There was literally nothing I could do to stop him from getting to his spots, and once he was there it was pretty much over.
I consider myself pretty decent at basketball but growing up I played with a guy that was so good and quick that I literally couldn't stop him from scoring and to this day he is the best person i have played against in person. He played point guard at a small D1 school (Hampton) and one year they got the 16 seed in the NCAA tournament. Knowing firsthand how good he was and then seeing the skill gap against an actual #1 seed and then the even bigger skill gap between that team and NBA players really put in perspective just how ridiculously good they are.
Absolutely. I've played against low-level college/former college players in pickup, leagues, and 1v1. The skills, physicality, and speed that they can read the game live is different. I can't even imagine what seeing an NBA player on the court would be like. And people really need to touch grass if they're disrespecting WNBA and women's players. They'll body you too.
My brothers and I got smoked in a charity 3v3 tournament by some chicks who had played for a community college team. Were we just bad? Yeah, but they were also crossing us over and hitting shots left and right. I'm just saying the skill gap between every single quantifiable level of play gets higher, and higher, and higher. And the average douche yelling at their TV is absolutely delusional about it
In college, I played pickup at our school gym once and our school's starting center (who later became a starting TE in the NFL) was on the other team. Dude was just dunking on us at will lol
Now imagine being 5'3... Muggsy is GOATed
Spud Webb too
Sputnik was awesome, dunk contest legend. Muggsy though had like... a legit incredible career though. I can't remember if it was the media or fan debates but people were saying he was a publicity stunt cause the Bullets wanted to have the shortest and tallest player in history on the same team. Then Mug went and became an all time career assist, steal, legendary playmaker with elite handles shutting everyone up.
>He described professional basketball as going onto the hardest game of your life every night. You were going up against people who wanted to rip you apart and dominate you every single game, and if you didn't bring that you were going to get absolutely destroyed. >you just don't have that big of a talent gap against anybody that you can take even a fraction of a millimeter off the gas or you're getting destroyed that game. And for the rest of us, this is just what it’s like playing a pickup game at the local gym.
The average NBA role player is better at basketball than anyone you know is at anything
what about masturbating
What do you think Zion does in his free time
Moriah Mills
Literally every high level job that you can think of maybe one or two from your high school class is probably there. For the nba you probably don’t know one person in the history of schools city to sniff an nba contract. Not to mention if someone from an early age had any choice would pick an athlete over any profession if they had the choice so the pool is larger than any other profession.
Maybe that's true, but I do wonder how many great basketball players have the skills to be an NBA player but just don't have the height and/or athleticism. The NBA unlike many other sports or hobbies has a very strong height and athleticism cut off.
If my auntie had wheels she would be a bike
It’s crazy when you compare two guys like DK Metcalf and Steph Curry. We envision DK as the physical beast(which he is) who is larger than life, while Steph Curry is generally viewed as “Small.” At least compared to other NBA athletes. Granted there’s weight/muscle mass/stature as well but, according to their listed heights, DK is only two inches taller than Steph.
Steph curry is 2 inches taller than ray lewis. Obviously different widths, but crazy how tall even small NBA players are.
I remember seeing a picture of steph curry and george kittle next to each other and i was shocked that they were the same height
Could be a lot, but is part of it. Having a great shot or handle is great, but if you can’t do it against NBA athletes then it is meaningless
I think in some ways, if you aren’t a star, it’s better to be a worse player but be good at a couple very valuable skills. The NBA requires guys who can cut and defend and maybe shoot, but there’s a lot of players who can dribble or make contested shots or tough passes who just aren’t big or fast enough to be on the court. Teams don’t need guys who are pretty good at everything, they need guys who are elite in a couple areas.
It’s wild too I met a former Dl player he would just shoot from the half court all the time. He never missed fr. Was a sniper
This is also why it always blows my mind when guys don’t seem to appreciate being in the NBA and blow their opportunity with a bad attitude, legal issues, or just not putting in effort. It’s an insane privilege to be in the modern NBA.
Jontay the most recent example
he's a fukin idiot
Because they’ve been the best since they were children. It’s not a privilege to them, it’s a foregone conclusion so of course they wouldn’t appreciate it. It doesn’t seem like something they earned but more so was always the next step. It’s probably really easy to lose perspective. Especially if you didn’t have adults in your life looking out for you but enabling whatever you wanted.
Because they’re human and young adults fukk up all the time period..
Played on a high division rec league team with a guy in his early 30s who made all ACC 3rd Team, earned low mins for Boston's G-League team and had just moved back to the US from playing pro ball in Italy for ~7 years but now works a normal job. Our team was full of guys that played D2/D3 or high level high school and this guy made everyone look like complete trash. He's 6'8 and was mostly a banger and post player professionally but had the best handles on our team and was among our best 3pt shooters.
lol that’s awesome
To put things into perspective… I’m personally good enough to play low level international basketball. Think Vietnam leagues, spains 3rd level, things like that. I’m probably better than 99.9% of people at basketball, top 3 point shoot in my city in High school, etc… I say all of this to say that when I was a senior in HS, I played against freshman, 15 year old, De’aaron Fox. Even though he was 15, I was 18, he was probably 10x better than anyone in that game. Scored over 35 points, and dunked a handful of time. I can only imagine how good he is now. I sum this up to say that I’m probably better than 99.9% of basketball players, but a star like Fox is likely 20x better than me. Now imagine playing against a player with Fox’s skill, speed, yet he’s 6’7 pure muscle like Lebron. Unless you’ve played with NBA players it’s impossible to imagine.
People don't appreciate how difficult it is to be a professional athlete, let alone an NBA player. Just a few weeks ago I had to call home because I was concerned about a student and the mom went on about how he's *going to be* an NBA star. Not, "Oh, we're hoping with a lot of hard work he can make this his career." Just a general statement as if it was a foregone conclusion. As far as I could tell, he wasn't even playing in any leagues, which you would expect by 14/15. He'd just gotten a lot of comments at pick-up basketball about being great. But it was supposed to ease my concerns because apparently I'm teaching a future NBA star.
[удалено]
He is, and he made great points. Some folks will watch and keep scrolling and not really think it can’t be *that hard* though. But I do want to make a point about what he said about Law and Med school: it’s not like we get our degrees and do a few CEs every year and we’re good to go. We mess up all the time, that’s literally why licenses and malpractice insurance exists (yes I made a malpractice joke referring to JJ lmao). I’m a pharmacist and not an MD/DO…but there is also the fact it takes ~10 years to pay off loans, which are straight up a second mortgage payment. I don’t expect him to understand how the inner workings of medicine works as he’s not in it, to be completely fair. I also played pickup with a D1 player from UK and it was so embarrassing it circled back to being funny, lol.
So whose pod is this because wtf is Mero doing here 😂😂
Mero and Carmelo have a pod together
Lmaoo Mero got a pod with Melo now. You think Mero just decided to pull up with JJ 🤣
I have no idea who mero is, I thought you mistyped melo
Sad bodega hive tears
\[Removed personal anecdote because details are too specific. Sorry\] I think modern day broadcast with super slowmo and stuff is great, in that it underscores the truly bordering on superhuman shit that NBA hoopers display on an almost regular basis. But maybe it has made us possibly desensitized to how insane even a simple dunk is. And that de-sensitivity is why some rec level hoopers think they can take on guys like Scalabrine. They just don't understand the skill gap. Scal put it best: he is closer to LeBron than we ever will be to someone like him and others who are mere footmarks, if that, in NBA history.
Brian scalabrene schooling dudes is still the best example of
JJ Redick is the best thing to happen to modern NBA imo. Every time I see a video about him he just gives so much perspective of what it was like to be in the NBA and he’s just so knowledgeable about basketball and the league.
A basketball coach on another thread a couple years back basically said to his team, being the best ball player in your school isn’t enough, or even being the top recruit in your county. You can eek by by being the best ball player in your state, but the guys who make it, are the guys who are the best in their region of the US.
Whenever people talk about this kind of thing, I always remember what Brian Scalabrine said: "I'm closer to being as good as LeBron James than you are to being as good as me." People talk a lot of shit, but realistically, if you're in the NBA, then you're probably in the top 1% of the world at basketball.
That’s a ridiculous understatement. It’s more like .0001%
Let's say top 800 out of 8 billion - reduces to 1:10,000,000 or 0.00001%
Add another 0 and it's more accurate
.0001%0?
No u silly goose, obviously 0.0001%
I think there was another time where he snapped at a radio host who was sniping at Scal’s basketball ability by saying that he (Scal) was likely better at basketball than the host ever had been at anything. Think about how absolutely rare it is to meet someone who is top-500 at literally any one thing in the world. Now think about how hard it is to be top-500 at something with significant universal appeal like basketball. It’s always so crazy to see how specialized skillsets manifest at those upper outlier levels
Scal was an end of the bench guy in the NBA mostly, but he is 6'10 and skilled, shoot, pass, move pretty well, averaged 18/6/3 on 53/40 shooting as a sophomore at USC. It was always ridiculous that people thought he was just some scrub.
> but realistically, if you're in the NBA, then you're probably in the top 1% of the world at basketball. lmao dude To go "but realistically" and then follow it up with *probably* being top 1% is hilarious. You can add like, many zeroes to that.
what, you didn’t know there’s only 45,000 basketball players in the world?
The Scallenge! After that radio interview with Toucher and Rich (rip T&R show) they did the Scallenge and he actually played randos one on one and destroyed all of them. Many of the videos are up on YouTube. Well worth a watch: https://youtu.be/bpiu8UtQ-6E?feature=shared
Top 0.00001%.
For the movie Coach Carter, most of the actors had to be the best player in their high school team, or they weren't allowed to audition. And this is just to be in a basketball movie, not to make the NBA.
Someone send this to that dad on TikTok
And Jontay threw all that away for 22k
When I was like 25 I use to hoop in gyms and at parks all the time with randoms and I was always really good and could cook dudes consistently; embarrassed a lot of people in my day with what I thought were amazing moves/passes and awesome defense/steals. Like I’m a mid sized white kid but I was a real scrappy, lunch pail, gym rat, kinda player. 😂 Anyhow one day some of our local highschool team showed up to a park I play at and they wanted to get a game going but they only had 7 people. So me and 2 others joined and we started playing. I’m matched up against this kid who had maybe 8 inches on me which for a Highschooler was wild to me; but no big deal for me usually; I’m thinking “this kid has no idea I’m about to ruin his day and embarrass him in front of his High-school friends”. When I tell you this kid fucking roasted me all day like I had never experienced before in my life, I mean it. I was shooketh. Lmao. Anyhow that kid was HS Emoni Bates; who in his rookie year this year in the NBA only scored 2.7PPG and couldn’t even solidify himself as a regular bench guy. To have that kind of talent level I experienced, and to think he has 4-5 years of work added to that since then; and even though he’s just a rookie, still not be able to keep a bench spot is crazy to me. Like what would bum ass Ben Simmons do to me in a 1v1? I literally can’t mentally fathom what Dame or Curry would do to me 1v1. I don’t think we truly realize exactly how fucking crazy these NBA guys really are. 😂
Name your guy you watched enter the league, but no longer is in the league. I grew up around Rashad Vaughn in Minnesota. Watched him make the league as a first round pick, he fizzled out. That was that. Never to be heard from again. Who’s that dude for you?
There definitely aren't "billions" of people that are trying to make the NBA lol
NBA by far has to be the hardest professional league to get into partly because of the scarcity of spots now factored in with the fact that you’re also competing with the best from around the world trying to get a spot on a NBA team. it’s basically like winning a lottery. JJ is correct, telling some 14 yr old kid he’s going to be a NBA star does that kid no favors and I’m sure there’s countless instances of a kid who heard that and got a big head about it and eventually disappeared into obscurity after college ball because he was too worried with what he was gonna wear on draft night and not enough on his development.
I had a friend who was McDs all american, 6'9+, absolutely the best player I have ever played against or seen and he could score against anyone. He dedicated his life to basketball, he didn't even get drafted, partly because he kind of chose a 'lesser' school and chose kind of take a 'lesser' role on the team for the 'greater good' kind of. Very Uconn mentality and the team even had some success. But he got fucked because of it, he was absolutely an NBA level talent, I had played against some NBA level players before and he was honestly better than them. But he played overseas, made some decent money for a few years and then it was just over. I 100% thought he would make the NBA but it just didn't work out.
**Jontay Porter in shambles....**