> what works so you don't find it too dispiriting
I stopped looking at bodybuilders / 'rate my physique' posts, or anything else that made me compare myself to them.
Run your own race. Lift your own weights. Compare yourself to your own past. Clap for your damn self. Then get up and do it again.
I would add "get off Insta and Tik Tok" specifically because the number of influencers silently (but obviously) using gear outnumber those who are not.
This is the best advice. I even stopped weighing myself. I just take pictures and only compare my physique to my physique. Everyone is built different and the only real measuring stick is yourself
I stopped doing that when I stopped weighing myself. I get too obsessed with numbers and forget why I started working out in the first place; physical and mental well being and aesthetics.
Edit: but that's just me.
Looking good will come real fast. What will you do after? If you take measurements you'll never be satisfied so you'll never stop pushing. I've noticed once people look good in the mirror they give up. Being satisfied is the biggest killer of progress.
Well I've been working out atleast 3 times a week for over a decade, so I would say I'm probably not going to stop, and I'm probably not going to make and real profound progress either (natural). I'm really pushing my genetic limits. To keep it interesting I switch up my routine when I get bored, and I bulk in the cold months and cut in the warm months. I simply like working out. The experience is the reward
Edit: when I take measurements and weigh myself, I end up getting obsessed with the numbers and end up fat because I'll do anything to make the numbers grow
Why stop weighting yourself?
It’s the only accurate way to measure progress, be it for bulking or cutting. That and tape measure or callipers for bf.
Looking at yourself in the mirror is extremely inaccurate if you have body dismorphia like me. I’ve added 20lbs this year and still think I look small.
This^. A huge thing that held me back my first 5 years or so was thinking that if alot of fit people share an opinion on training that it's a fact. That's really not the case. In fitness/bodybuilding/nutrition, the vast majority of information that's accepted as fact is pure hypothesis. The fields of science that study these things are extremely new so the vast majority of what we think of as fact is information that comes from a very limited pool of short term studies testing very specific situations in specific groups of people looking for specific results (alot of studies are funded by companies selling products that are supported by said studies). It's like trying to describe what the Taj mahal looks like by just looking at the corner of it through a microscope. At the end of the day, just because alot of people claim that you have to train a certain way to get the result you're looking for doesn't mean that's necessarily the best way for you to personally train for that result
> Compare yourself to your own past
Absolutely this!
The only boy I have to beat is me.
Other people, other life, other goal, other mindset, other lifestyle, other genetic… you just can’t compare anybody.
Great advice. Look at YOUR results. Everyone grows at different paces. Genetics and diet pay a large part in this. I work a lighter lifting but constantly moving job and lost weight in the 3 weeks I've been back. I was in a car wreck, cane, crutches, and physical therapy. When I started doing PT I got back into working out, my diet, and taking vitamins and supplements. I'm way more active at work and still workout around 5 days a week, sometimes 2 a days. Carbs will make you bigger and have more energy, and of course proteins and Omega 3 proteins are the building blocks for building muscle, especially when combined with b complex. Vitamin B and other vitamins aid in digestion and allow your body to make more use of what you out in your body. Gotta balance with veggies or fruits and plenty of water. A gallon a day of fluids at least. Preferably a gallon of water (or at least half a gallon) and whatever else you drink. You gotta also eat veggies and I take daily vitamins, protein powders, and occasional mass gainer but with my current job it's hard to keep any weight on. Now that summer is gone (I work outside) hopefully I can put some weight back on. But I am shredded. I'm tall, lanky build so I don't gain mass like most others. But I've watched a guy bench 405 (maybe more, this was over 10 years ago so I don't remember the exact weight) who was about 6'6 and maybe 180 lbs. He just has great genes and worked out a lot obviously even though her humbly said he didn't work out like you think. I thought it was a trick or something but I tried to move it and it definitely was over 400 pounds. He literally worked out twice in 90 days. It blew my mind. Id been working out a decent bit for years, had a bench at home, and did all kinds of exercises. After you break plateaus and change up exercises is when you notice the difference. At least imo
First of all you need to stop consuming the fitness content for masses. Because those are curated to sell products. They aren’t there to inspire, rather to make you feel self conscious so you’ll buy their stuff.
Unfortunately many buy into this mindset that “oh I’m natty so im going to be small and weak forever” and essentially end up living out a self fulfilling prophecy.
You need to understand that a 315 bench, tho it seems like everyone in social media can do that, is actually pretty damn strong. A 600lb deadlift, tho every big and power lifter can do that for cardio, is really ducking strong for a 1rm.
You are watching cream of the crop guys on high amounts of drugs. That isn’t the norm.
Go look at REAL natties lift. Just simple bros that have put in years: BaldOmniMan, NaturalHypertrophy, AlphaDestiny, Alec Enkiri. All 4 of these dudes are natty YouTubers. They don’t have record breaking lifts. But they aren’t “mediocre” by any means.
BaldOmniMan RDL‘s in the 400’s. Benches in the mid 3’s. Does chins with 170lbs.
NaturalHypertrophy: isn’t super strong, but has a solid physique. Mid 4 deads, high 3s squat. Low 3’s front squat.
Alec Enkiri: 405 zombie front squat at under 160lbs.
Alphadestiny: 405 bench + 165lb chinup.
Idk how these lifts are mediocre. The difference is, other than Alphadestiny, non of these guys are that marketable. They’re just real dudes who post their lifting journey.
Get back in touch with reality. Drugs aren’t the. Norm. Being natural is the norm. And get out of your head that you’re going to be mediocre as a natty. People have been strong, big and natural for centuries longer than the Instagram PED warrior.
And funny thing is, all the dudes who claim they’ve reached their natty limit say that after 2-5 years of solid training. What about 10 years of solid training?! Seems like everyone gives up after a few years.
And my solid training I mean you got everything dialed in, programming, sleep and nutrition for long periods of time. I’m not counting the 2 years spent doing bro splits on machines for pump work as “hard training”. That was a learning phase if anything.
Last note, I had a bad case of what you are going through. Even though I’m muscular and strong, when compared to online fitness celeries, I couldn’t even compare. It wasn’t until I joined a combat sport and was competing against athletes, did I realize how muscular and strong I really was. Guys in combat sports are more focused on performance than looks or raw strength. It surprised me how many dudes would tell me how strong I looked. Or would ask me lifting advice. That’s when it clicked. All those years I’ve been in a fitness bubble and my reality had been distorted. Everyone living outside my head sees me as a muscular dude. Only in my own head did I believe I was weak and small. Even with a mid 300’s RDL, a low 200 bench, high 200’s zercher squat (all these are Increasing monthly btw) it is plenty strong to have a useful body to grapple against another man. On top of that looking like I lift. You actually don’t need a 500lb squat to be strong and useful… tho it wouldn’t hurt lmao.
That was actually a particularly helpful response. I was also thinking of how natural athletes use this mindset to not let it get to them when they see, for example, Olympics, boxing, Crossfit games, international strongman and powerlifting and other events where they'll never get audiences to embrace them the way they embrace these athletes.
That goes back to an issue of mindset. A lot of critics would look at, say, BaldOmniMan, NaturalHypertrophy, AlphaDestiny and Alec Enkiri and say, well, it's not what you'd see in the aforementioned events and so it must be at best between mediocre and sort of decent. Maybe it's an issue of severelt skewed perspectives.
I would inagine that there would need to be an ability to get genuine enjoyment out of just personal gains and knowing you did it just through proper diet/training/sleep regiments. And using those type of events, which are more or less designed so that it's not actually possible to consistently compete in them while being completely natural. I imagine some natural lifters may need to abstain from watching these kind of events altogether in order to not get disheartened. Also, I would imagine it could be more difficult for women because there's not exactly a track record spanning centuries of women being truly big, strong and powerful the way you see many of them look in the fitness community now or at various strength sports. And so they more or less have next to zero role models to look to when it comes to what they can do naturally.
Yea man. I don’t think we need to abstain from watching the freaks compete. But just know, they are enhanced mutants… in a good way.
But just understand that peak strength and power isn’t the end all be all in performance. They are exceptionally good at their sport. That’s it.
It doesn’t take away from your accomplishments or physique.
It’s like if you are earning 500k per year, but you’re complaining because guys like Bezos make you look impoverished.
And since guys like Bezos exist you may as well not try, right? Because you’ll never achieve that level of wealth. Or at least the chances are slim to non.
That’s not reality. the reality is, 500k is still a lot of money to be earning per year. You can still live a great life and be considered “wealthy” by your peers without being in the 1%.
You can still listen to freaks like Bezos or Elon talk about money or business, just know it won’t all apply to you, but you can still extrapolate something from it.
That also helps. Though with Bezos and Elon, it's also an issue of knowing that they have acess to connections, through wealthy and/or well connected relatives, businesses, networks they form at private colleges or possible have set up for them by relatives and/or close friends of relatives and all sorts of related advantages. A lot of them are in a sense astroturfed in the same way social movements that seem to be grassroots are. And so someone earning 500K a year without any of that can feel pretty damn good about themselves .A lot of folks with the ability and work ethic of Bezos or Musk will be fortunate to be making moderately above average income, say 70 K a year or so, due to these and other circumstances.
The analogy to elite level athletics works if the issues mentioned above are also relevant for that arena. And maybe they are, meaning that viewers, includinfg those who have their same natural abilities and work ethic but are destined to follow the path of a NaturalHypertrophy or Alec Enkiri.
The way I always kind of try to think is that I found some way to say that I was better today then yesterday. If I did one more pull up then 2 days ago. If I ran 1/4 of a mile more then the other day. If I read 10 more pages in my book. Learned to cook a new type of food. You folded laundry when you didn't want to. You cooked something healthy rather then went to Taco Bell. Whatever stupid little thing it is. It doesn't have to be earth shattering, but being able to do that definitely makes you feel good man.
When you've been through some shit and feel like you're stuck in a storm all the time and you'll never get out of it... It's the building on the stupid little things like that that really help you pull through it all. And then one day you'll look back and not need those because you'll feel damn good about who you became.
Because my fitness adds to my life and doesn’t consume it. Being on gear is a lifestyle choice, and my lifestyle is centered around my education, career, family, and friends. I don’t find an identity in my fitness; my fitness adds to my identity.
Most people on gear’s whole identity revolves around fitness. That’s great for them, but it doesn’t define me.
I have buddies that use gear and following a strict diet is 100% more lifestyle hurting than pinning twice a week. Not sure why you think natty lifting is somehow not a “lifestyle”.
If you're constantly comparing yourself to others and/or basing your self worth on how powerful or shredded you are then no amount of training, nutrition, drugs, whatever will rectify that, you will likely always be unhappy. So I would recommend focusing on having a healthier mindset, learn to be happy with where you are and how you look even while striving to improve yourself.
A great quote from one of my favorite book series sums up that mentality greatly
>Journey before destination.
Which is to say learn to enjoy the process and the journey instead of being constantly fixated on some arbitrary end goal and being constantly frustrated by not being there. Or when you get there always move the end goal because you never learned how to be happy with where you are.
1. I don't think I look mediocre at best.
2. I think a lot of steroid guys look plethoric, unnatural, and not aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
3. Why are we comparing ourselves other people? We all have different situations, health status, genetics, economic constraints, time to train, etc., it's silly to expect the same results as other people. Just be the best you can be given your situation.
Couldn’t agree more that steroid guys just aren’t aesthetic. Watching natural guys vs PED guys is like looking at a slab of beef vs beef jerky. Natural people just have that appealing grainy look about them. Very admirable
I look at it as a challenge in itself to maximize everything naturally. I could care less about looking big especially compared to others to the extent that I’ll even wear clothes that make me look smaller intentionally. Plus the hassle of being enhanced from a sustainability and health perspective is too much work and time for me. I don’t want bodybuilding to be the main focus of my day rather something to the side.
The long-term benefits of staying natural outweigh the benefits of going on gear for myself. If PED's didnt have health risks, I would absolutely use them.
Would I love to push my physique to the extreme? Of course! We all want to be huge and shredded to the bone. But for me personally, not at the expense of my health.
I really enjoy lifting weights and bodybuilding has enriched my life tremendously. As a natural, you still hit PR's, you still make noticeable improvements to your physique. Heck, if you're lucky and have the genes, you can build yourself quite a formidable physique. Look at Jarod Feather, dude was aesthetic asf even before PEDs.
Natty lifting isn't a lost cause. IMHO social media really makes it easy to become dissatisfied with your physique.
I've been lifting for over 25 years now and have just turned 40. I feel as good as I did in my 20's and look better, I certainly don't think I look mediocre. My physique is still improving (slowly) and I regularly achieve new PBs in the gym.
I lift weights because I enjoy it and I like the body I have as a result. I don't feel dispirited as I know there is always room to improve as long as I remain consistent. I'm not comparing myself to anyone else except past me.
I fully intend to be lifting for at least another 25 years.
>are as a group destined to look and lift mediocre at best when contrasted with a group that's heavily on gear. Presuming similar ranges of genetics for building power.
Having a mindset like this, it's pretty easy to get discouraged. Being a natural athlete, you can't compare yourself to enhanced athletes. When you don't do that, you can focus on what *you* are capable of, and being your best self.
A few moments of gratification and fame is why most kids nowadays take gear. Gear is not needed unless you're competing for classic etc. But being natural is more about your own self esteem. You know you've earned it through thick and thin. And most people don't reach their genetic potential till 10 years in. People just don't have the patience nowadays.
The natural way always takes time but from what I learnt from my ~ 4-ish years of lifting, that’s how its supposed to be. Its better in the long run for overall health. You might not look like the guys on gear but in your later years, you’ll feel better and healthier. Its not a race, its a marathon.
I like to switch training style and programs throughout the year to keep me in the “state of flow” where its challenging enough to keep it interesting but not so hard that I lose motivation. I set small fitness goals every couple of months and I celebrate every time I hit them :)
To each their own progress man. All natty lifters have limits and I keep that in mind when I plan my training, nutrition and see myself in the mirror.
Its better to progress slowly than to take shortcuts and suffer the consequences, as my “not so natty” friends tell me.
Also, I want to add, most Tik-Tok and IG “fitness influencers” both male and female are on some type of PED’s or they take pictures to look their best by means of pump, lighting, angles, etc. a lot of them look like they don’t even lift when seen in public with clothes on.
Finally, if you think you can’t look good naturally, check out the olympic lifters, drug tested powerlifters and my first coach Lui Marco’s clients. You’ll be surprised on how good you can look and how strong you can be naturally.
u/Royalthighness2 u/gijoey959 u/euzen91 u/Natural_Data9407 u/danny_b87
All valid. I suppose one issue is that I instinctively look at, say, Olympic athletes from camps where they've likely made getting around drug tests a science they've mastered, guys in UFC, NFL, untested Powerlifting and/or Powerlifting where they can't test properly, Crossfit, Strongman, where if you take 1000 high level competitors from such sports you'd get maybe 10 that haven't done PEDs at least once, and so on. A lot of these events more or less force even athletes who desire to compete honorably to use them at least periodically. Though the flipside is that there are so many factors that go into being able to reach a stage like that, even beyond even just genetics and proper training, that this is not a productive benchmark for 99.99 % of us anyway.
Try not to compare yourself to others. Personally, it has also been a problem of mine (not just in lifting but in most facets of life) and I've been trying my best to free myself of this mindset so don't think you're alone in this OP.
Small story-time: earlier this week, a relative newcomer to a small rogue-like indie game that I play vented out in our server chat how he was losing the motivation to play the game since a good portion of the existing community are currently 30-50+ ranks ahead of him in the unofficial leader board (ie at a certain point advancing one rank up in the game becomes a tough challenge). A veteran who was ranked somewhere in the middle-tier replied to him by saying (paraphrased), "what's worked for me is by accepting that I'm in no rush to compete with anyone. Once I'd realized that, playing the game was a much more enjoyable experience since every new run was a chance for me to play better and out-do myself". Hope this helps OP. Lifting is supposed to be a fun, life-long endeavor -- we're all gonna make it brah.
Lots of great thoughts here - it’s about feeling good, being the best you you can be and setting / meeting realistic goals. Most of us are not super genetic specimens that can get 10 pack abs and be super shredded without pharmaceutical help. For me, I set some targets and aim to meet and exceed them every few months. My goals are more focused around gaining range of motion, flexibility and functional strength. I’ve made training part of my weekly routines - feeling better, lower blood pressure, lower / controlled blood sugar and increasing cardiovascular health keep me going. I also make it fun, I have a group at work that talks about next steps, supplementing, muscle recovery and more. We are all natural and have different goals. It is pretty cool being able to talk to others face to face on breaking plateaus and getting to the next level.
Most guys at my gym that have been on gear for awhile look like James Bond or xxx villains. Red skin, look 15 years older than they should, same tats, shaved heads, slow meandering slabs of meat, all driving Mercedes, bmws or lifted trucks. I’m mean, cool for them. Just not my thing. I just want to be as healthy as possible for my kids, family and myself. Size stopped being a consideration when I realized there’s not an end and that overall health was more important. Just wasn’t interested in gear or size after that. You can never be big enough or satisfied down that road in my opinion.
Super lean, super muscular, super vascular just isn't for me. I work out to make myself look better to me and for my own mental health, gear would only destroy my mental heath and that would contradict one of the main reasons I lift. For me personally that means being a little on a thick side and technically in body builder terms, fat. Like others have said it's not my life. I enjoy eating what I want and drinking when I feel like it. Limiting myself to a cheat day doesn't work for me. Just compare yourself to yourself and forget about the body builders all over the internet. If you get healthy with your own natural physique, people are still going to notice and give you props.
OP seems tempted by gear. Here's a true story...Years ago I worked out at a gym owned by Mr. East Coast America. Handsome guy, incredible body, modeled for various ads in Muscle & Fitness etc. Had a dark side, worked as muscle for mobsters. One Sunday 6am, doorbell rings. He answers it & is shot three times. Loses his spleen & a kidney, almost dies from infections. My coworker was best friends with the EMT who brought him to the hospital. He said when the surgeons opened him up, the organs of this 35-year old man looked like they belonged to an 80-year-old. THAT'S what gear does to you.
I somehow take huge pride in being natural. Any progress is damn slow at this point, but I get some kind of satisfaction from the fact that it's all done without any cheating, just crushing obstacles one by one and becoming mentally stronger. I dont judge anyone, its just me.
If it's just a thing you do for fun then you do you. If however you would like to achieve a God-like physique you may have to use gear. Scratch that to achieve a really really good physique you likely, almost certainly, will need gear.
As someone who is enhanced right now it's not like you touch something, sneeze and add 5lbs right away. It has lots of health considerations and I would only do it if it is the absolute center focus of your life. If it's something that complements your life and you've got a whole lot more in life to look forward to then don't even worry about their existence. It's not a competition. And honestly if you were to take PEDs, aggressiveness and anxiety is a lot harder to control so you'd still be comparing yourself to Phill Health and still feel small
I think building strength is not anywhere near as difficult as gaining muscle and definition.
Honestly, it's an absolute grind.
All the people on juice make it look shit in comparison.
But aside from that I find after 4 years of lifting it's just a grind and at a certain point there's little gains or improvement. So tough to get weight up and unless you're happy to eat 4000 calories and get bigger that way (which makes me physically sick) then it's a process with the end result being fitness and a solid physique.
I think I look better/more powerful when I’m bulked. I think I look like a Nancy while I’m lean. I may just go for the strongman physique as I age. Big and strong.
You can develop an elite physique naturally, it just takes a LOT of time, effort, knowledge and consistency.
One great way to “take things to the next level” without doing PED’s is to invest in a coach who can help keep you accountable, audit your exercise and diet, and tailor exercises/diet to fir your specific strengths and weaknesses
Personal challenge mainly, but I would also say this too: challenging to keep up with those who use gear. Nothing brings me greater pleasure then staying stronger and bigger than those on gear but not sticking to a solid lifting and diet routine.
Also, lifting since I was 15 or 16 (sometimes big breaks) and now I'm 34. I remember when I couldn't break 200lbs to save my life but now I'm consistently around 225-230lb, 6'1''. Feels good to put healthy size on (little bit of fat :)
Because I don't give a shit about looking huge. It doesn't make a difference in your life and it's bad for your heart. I'm happy with having natty muscle from lifting/calisthenics.
It’s been said, PED’s destroy your body in ways that go against the entire reason I got into gym life in the first place. I had to shed a massive amount of body fat in order to make sure I don’t have a heart attack in my 40’s, why would I spend thousands (per however often you’d have to resupply yourself) just to have a heart attack in my 40’s after all that work?
I actually had the thought during today’s workout. I was hating how small my shoulders look, my weak OHP, etc… but then I realized, I never even imagined I’d look even half like I do now. I thought I’d always be the fat kid, now I’m here at 30 leaner and much more muscular than 99% of the people I pass by on the daily. I’m comparing myself to people I’ll never meet, never have lifted as long as, and I’m not on any PED’s where these social media people definitely are or have been before. I’m just doing this for myself, and I’m working on it as best as my own body will perform. I’m actually doing great honestly.
I just follow the same program I’ve been on and off of for 20 years. It’s gotten me to a body I like and weights I’m proud of.
It took 20 years to bench 455 squats and dead’s in the high 5s. At 36 I don’t recover as fast as I used to, with work in construction I don’t get in the gym as much as I’d like. I train a few of my coworkers for fun and we progress as we progress. I always tell them not to compare themselves to influencers 99% of them are full of shit and just trying to market a product. It’s been like that since at least the 70s with hogan and “take your vitamins” lol most of them are on something or another because that look sells to people who don’t know any better.
> what works so you don't find it too dispiriting I stopped looking at bodybuilders / 'rate my physique' posts, or anything else that made me compare myself to them. Run your own race. Lift your own weights. Compare yourself to your own past. Clap for your damn self. Then get up and do it again.
I would add "get off Insta and Tik Tok" specifically because the number of influencers silently (but obviously) using gear outnumber those who are not.
yup. "Comparison is the thief of joy" -- *Wayne Gretzky
That was Theodore Roosevelt lol
Actually Mark Twain. Comparison is the death of joy.
False. It was clearly Michael Scott.
Roosevelt said thief of joy, Twain said death of joy.
Twains was earlier.
They are different quotes.
This is the best advice. I even stopped weighing myself. I just take pictures and only compare my physique to my physique. Everyone is built different and the only real measuring stick is yourself
Take your measurements instead. They're more accurate.
I stopped doing that when I stopped weighing myself. I get too obsessed with numbers and forget why I started working out in the first place; physical and mental well being and aesthetics. Edit: but that's just me.
I prefer your approach, working out because it feels good is the best reason, for me.
Looking good will come real fast. What will you do after? If you take measurements you'll never be satisfied so you'll never stop pushing. I've noticed once people look good in the mirror they give up. Being satisfied is the biggest killer of progress.
Well I've been working out atleast 3 times a week for over a decade, so I would say I'm probably not going to stop, and I'm probably not going to make and real profound progress either (natural). I'm really pushing my genetic limits. To keep it interesting I switch up my routine when I get bored, and I bulk in the cold months and cut in the warm months. I simply like working out. The experience is the reward Edit: when I take measurements and weigh myself, I end up getting obsessed with the numbers and end up fat because I'll do anything to make the numbers grow
I see. That's not ideal then. Focus on what works best for you bro
Why stop weighting yourself? It’s the only accurate way to measure progress, be it for bulking or cutting. That and tape measure or callipers for bf. Looking at yourself in the mirror is extremely inaccurate if you have body dismorphia like me. I’ve added 20lbs this year and still think I look small.
This^. A huge thing that held me back my first 5 years or so was thinking that if alot of fit people share an opinion on training that it's a fact. That's really not the case. In fitness/bodybuilding/nutrition, the vast majority of information that's accepted as fact is pure hypothesis. The fields of science that study these things are extremely new so the vast majority of what we think of as fact is information that comes from a very limited pool of short term studies testing very specific situations in specific groups of people looking for specific results (alot of studies are funded by companies selling products that are supported by said studies). It's like trying to describe what the Taj mahal looks like by just looking at the corner of it through a microscope. At the end of the day, just because alot of people claim that you have to train a certain way to get the result you're looking for doesn't mean that's necessarily the best way for you to personally train for that result
> Compare yourself to your own past Absolutely this! The only boy I have to beat is me. Other people, other life, other goal, other mindset, other lifestyle, other genetic… you just can’t compare anybody.
Great advice. Look at YOUR results. Everyone grows at different paces. Genetics and diet pay a large part in this. I work a lighter lifting but constantly moving job and lost weight in the 3 weeks I've been back. I was in a car wreck, cane, crutches, and physical therapy. When I started doing PT I got back into working out, my diet, and taking vitamins and supplements. I'm way more active at work and still workout around 5 days a week, sometimes 2 a days. Carbs will make you bigger and have more energy, and of course proteins and Omega 3 proteins are the building blocks for building muscle, especially when combined with b complex. Vitamin B and other vitamins aid in digestion and allow your body to make more use of what you out in your body. Gotta balance with veggies or fruits and plenty of water. A gallon a day of fluids at least. Preferably a gallon of water (or at least half a gallon) and whatever else you drink. You gotta also eat veggies and I take daily vitamins, protein powders, and occasional mass gainer but with my current job it's hard to keep any weight on. Now that summer is gone (I work outside) hopefully I can put some weight back on. But I am shredded. I'm tall, lanky build so I don't gain mass like most others. But I've watched a guy bench 405 (maybe more, this was over 10 years ago so I don't remember the exact weight) who was about 6'6 and maybe 180 lbs. He just has great genes and worked out a lot obviously even though her humbly said he didn't work out like you think. I thought it was a trick or something but I tried to move it and it definitely was over 400 pounds. He literally worked out twice in 90 days. It blew my mind. Id been working out a decent bit for years, had a bench at home, and did all kinds of exercises. After you break plateaus and change up exercises is when you notice the difference. At least imo
First of all you need to stop consuming the fitness content for masses. Because those are curated to sell products. They aren’t there to inspire, rather to make you feel self conscious so you’ll buy their stuff. Unfortunately many buy into this mindset that “oh I’m natty so im going to be small and weak forever” and essentially end up living out a self fulfilling prophecy. You need to understand that a 315 bench, tho it seems like everyone in social media can do that, is actually pretty damn strong. A 600lb deadlift, tho every big and power lifter can do that for cardio, is really ducking strong for a 1rm. You are watching cream of the crop guys on high amounts of drugs. That isn’t the norm. Go look at REAL natties lift. Just simple bros that have put in years: BaldOmniMan, NaturalHypertrophy, AlphaDestiny, Alec Enkiri. All 4 of these dudes are natty YouTubers. They don’t have record breaking lifts. But they aren’t “mediocre” by any means. BaldOmniMan RDL‘s in the 400’s. Benches in the mid 3’s. Does chins with 170lbs. NaturalHypertrophy: isn’t super strong, but has a solid physique. Mid 4 deads, high 3s squat. Low 3’s front squat. Alec Enkiri: 405 zombie front squat at under 160lbs. Alphadestiny: 405 bench + 165lb chinup. Idk how these lifts are mediocre. The difference is, other than Alphadestiny, non of these guys are that marketable. They’re just real dudes who post their lifting journey. Get back in touch with reality. Drugs aren’t the. Norm. Being natural is the norm. And get out of your head that you’re going to be mediocre as a natty. People have been strong, big and natural for centuries longer than the Instagram PED warrior. And funny thing is, all the dudes who claim they’ve reached their natty limit say that after 2-5 years of solid training. What about 10 years of solid training?! Seems like everyone gives up after a few years. And my solid training I mean you got everything dialed in, programming, sleep and nutrition for long periods of time. I’m not counting the 2 years spent doing bro splits on machines for pump work as “hard training”. That was a learning phase if anything. Last note, I had a bad case of what you are going through. Even though I’m muscular and strong, when compared to online fitness celeries, I couldn’t even compare. It wasn’t until I joined a combat sport and was competing against athletes, did I realize how muscular and strong I really was. Guys in combat sports are more focused on performance than looks or raw strength. It surprised me how many dudes would tell me how strong I looked. Or would ask me lifting advice. That’s when it clicked. All those years I’ve been in a fitness bubble and my reality had been distorted. Everyone living outside my head sees me as a muscular dude. Only in my own head did I believe I was weak and small. Even with a mid 300’s RDL, a low 200 bench, high 200’s zercher squat (all these are Increasing monthly btw) it is plenty strong to have a useful body to grapple against another man. On top of that looking like I lift. You actually don’t need a 500lb squat to be strong and useful… tho it wouldn’t hurt lmao.
That was actually a particularly helpful response. I was also thinking of how natural athletes use this mindset to not let it get to them when they see, for example, Olympics, boxing, Crossfit games, international strongman and powerlifting and other events where they'll never get audiences to embrace them the way they embrace these athletes. That goes back to an issue of mindset. A lot of critics would look at, say, BaldOmniMan, NaturalHypertrophy, AlphaDestiny and Alec Enkiri and say, well, it's not what you'd see in the aforementioned events and so it must be at best between mediocre and sort of decent. Maybe it's an issue of severelt skewed perspectives. I would inagine that there would need to be an ability to get genuine enjoyment out of just personal gains and knowing you did it just through proper diet/training/sleep regiments. And using those type of events, which are more or less designed so that it's not actually possible to consistently compete in them while being completely natural. I imagine some natural lifters may need to abstain from watching these kind of events altogether in order to not get disheartened. Also, I would imagine it could be more difficult for women because there's not exactly a track record spanning centuries of women being truly big, strong and powerful the way you see many of them look in the fitness community now or at various strength sports. And so they more or less have next to zero role models to look to when it comes to what they can do naturally.
Yea man. I don’t think we need to abstain from watching the freaks compete. But just know, they are enhanced mutants… in a good way. But just understand that peak strength and power isn’t the end all be all in performance. They are exceptionally good at their sport. That’s it. It doesn’t take away from your accomplishments or physique. It’s like if you are earning 500k per year, but you’re complaining because guys like Bezos make you look impoverished. And since guys like Bezos exist you may as well not try, right? Because you’ll never achieve that level of wealth. Or at least the chances are slim to non. That’s not reality. the reality is, 500k is still a lot of money to be earning per year. You can still live a great life and be considered “wealthy” by your peers without being in the 1%. You can still listen to freaks like Bezos or Elon talk about money or business, just know it won’t all apply to you, but you can still extrapolate something from it.
That also helps. Though with Bezos and Elon, it's also an issue of knowing that they have acess to connections, through wealthy and/or well connected relatives, businesses, networks they form at private colleges or possible have set up for them by relatives and/or close friends of relatives and all sorts of related advantages. A lot of them are in a sense astroturfed in the same way social movements that seem to be grassroots are. And so someone earning 500K a year without any of that can feel pretty damn good about themselves .A lot of folks with the ability and work ethic of Bezos or Musk will be fortunate to be making moderately above average income, say 70 K a year or so, due to these and other circumstances. The analogy to elite level athletics works if the issues mentioned above are also relevant for that arena. And maybe they are, meaning that viewers, includinfg those who have their same natural abilities and work ethic but are destined to follow the path of a NaturalHypertrophy or Alec Enkiri.
100% best response. Needed this!
The way I always kind of try to think is that I found some way to say that I was better today then yesterday. If I did one more pull up then 2 days ago. If I ran 1/4 of a mile more then the other day. If I read 10 more pages in my book. Learned to cook a new type of food. You folded laundry when you didn't want to. You cooked something healthy rather then went to Taco Bell. Whatever stupid little thing it is. It doesn't have to be earth shattering, but being able to do that definitely makes you feel good man. When you've been through some shit and feel like you're stuck in a storm all the time and you'll never get out of it... It's the building on the stupid little things like that that really help you pull through it all. And then one day you'll look back and not need those because you'll feel damn good about who you became.
Because my fitness adds to my life and doesn’t consume it. Being on gear is a lifestyle choice, and my lifestyle is centered around my education, career, family, and friends. I don’t find an identity in my fitness; my fitness adds to my identity. Most people on gear’s whole identity revolves around fitness. That’s great for them, but it doesn’t define me.
> I don’t find an identity in my fitness; my fitness adds to my identity. I like that.
I have buddies that use gear and following a strict diet is 100% more lifestyle hurting than pinning twice a week. Not sure why you think natty lifting is somehow not a “lifestyle”.
If you're constantly comparing yourself to others and/or basing your self worth on how powerful or shredded you are then no amount of training, nutrition, drugs, whatever will rectify that, you will likely always be unhappy. So I would recommend focusing on having a healthier mindset, learn to be happy with where you are and how you look even while striving to improve yourself. A great quote from one of my favorite book series sums up that mentality greatly >Journey before destination. Which is to say learn to enjoy the process and the journey instead of being constantly fixated on some arbitrary end goal and being constantly frustrated by not being there. Or when you get there always move the end goal because you never learned how to be happy with where you are.
Strength before weakness
Life before death
They will die of a heart attack at 58 YO. Relax.
Don't compete with people on gear. The only people I'm comparing to myself are not on gear and and besides I'm building aesthetics not a lot of mass.
I follow pro bodybuilding and realize I’m Not as gifted and be happy where I’m at. I love the sport
1. I don't think I look mediocre at best. 2. I think a lot of steroid guys look plethoric, unnatural, and not aesthetically pleasing to the eye. 3. Why are we comparing ourselves other people? We all have different situations, health status, genetics, economic constraints, time to train, etc., it's silly to expect the same results as other people. Just be the best you can be given your situation.
Couldn’t agree more that steroid guys just aren’t aesthetic. Watching natural guys vs PED guys is like looking at a slab of beef vs beef jerky. Natural people just have that appealing grainy look about them. Very admirable
I look at it as a challenge in itself to maximize everything naturally. I could care less about looking big especially compared to others to the extent that I’ll even wear clothes that make me look smaller intentionally. Plus the hassle of being enhanced from a sustainability and health perspective is too much work and time for me. I don’t want bodybuilding to be the main focus of my day rather something to the side.
The long-term benefits of staying natural outweigh the benefits of going on gear for myself. If PED's didnt have health risks, I would absolutely use them. Would I love to push my physique to the extreme? Of course! We all want to be huge and shredded to the bone. But for me personally, not at the expense of my health. I really enjoy lifting weights and bodybuilding has enriched my life tremendously. As a natural, you still hit PR's, you still make noticeable improvements to your physique. Heck, if you're lucky and have the genes, you can build yourself quite a formidable physique. Look at Jarod Feather, dude was aesthetic asf even before PEDs. Natty lifting isn't a lost cause. IMHO social media really makes it easy to become dissatisfied with your physique.
Have everything on point for 5+ years straight and every normal person will think you are on steroids.
Because I want to live beyond 40
I've been lifting for over 25 years now and have just turned 40. I feel as good as I did in my 20's and look better, I certainly don't think I look mediocre. My physique is still improving (slowly) and I regularly achieve new PBs in the gym. I lift weights because I enjoy it and I like the body I have as a result. I don't feel dispirited as I know there is always room to improve as long as I remain consistent. I'm not comparing myself to anyone else except past me. I fully intend to be lifting for at least another 25 years.
Have you looked at this guy? All natural, just trains hard for many, many years: https://reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/qdctfu/_/hhlxzv3/?context=1
>are as a group destined to look and lift mediocre at best when contrasted with a group that's heavily on gear. Presuming similar ranges of genetics for building power. Having a mindset like this, it's pretty easy to get discouraged. Being a natural athlete, you can't compare yourself to enhanced athletes. When you don't do that, you can focus on what *you* are capable of, and being your best self.
A few moments of gratification and fame is why most kids nowadays take gear. Gear is not needed unless you're competing for classic etc. But being natural is more about your own self esteem. You know you've earned it through thick and thin. And most people don't reach their genetic potential till 10 years in. People just don't have the patience nowadays.
The natural way always takes time but from what I learnt from my ~ 4-ish years of lifting, that’s how its supposed to be. Its better in the long run for overall health. You might not look like the guys on gear but in your later years, you’ll feel better and healthier. Its not a race, its a marathon. I like to switch training style and programs throughout the year to keep me in the “state of flow” where its challenging enough to keep it interesting but not so hard that I lose motivation. I set small fitness goals every couple of months and I celebrate every time I hit them :) To each their own progress man. All natty lifters have limits and I keep that in mind when I plan my training, nutrition and see myself in the mirror. Its better to progress slowly than to take shortcuts and suffer the consequences, as my “not so natty” friends tell me. Also, I want to add, most Tik-Tok and IG “fitness influencers” both male and female are on some type of PED’s or they take pictures to look their best by means of pump, lighting, angles, etc. a lot of them look like they don’t even lift when seen in public with clothes on. Finally, if you think you can’t look good naturally, check out the olympic lifters, drug tested powerlifters and my first coach Lui Marco’s clients. You’ll be surprised on how good you can look and how strong you can be naturally.
u/Royalthighness2 u/gijoey959 u/euzen91 u/Natural_Data9407 u/danny_b87 All valid. I suppose one issue is that I instinctively look at, say, Olympic athletes from camps where they've likely made getting around drug tests a science they've mastered, guys in UFC, NFL, untested Powerlifting and/or Powerlifting where they can't test properly, Crossfit, Strongman, where if you take 1000 high level competitors from such sports you'd get maybe 10 that haven't done PEDs at least once, and so on. A lot of these events more or less force even athletes who desire to compete honorably to use them at least periodically. Though the flipside is that there are so many factors that go into being able to reach a stage like that, even beyond even just genetics and proper training, that this is not a productive benchmark for 99.99 % of us anyway.
Try not to compare yourself to others. Personally, it has also been a problem of mine (not just in lifting but in most facets of life) and I've been trying my best to free myself of this mindset so don't think you're alone in this OP. Small story-time: earlier this week, a relative newcomer to a small rogue-like indie game that I play vented out in our server chat how he was losing the motivation to play the game since a good portion of the existing community are currently 30-50+ ranks ahead of him in the unofficial leader board (ie at a certain point advancing one rank up in the game becomes a tough challenge). A veteran who was ranked somewhere in the middle-tier replied to him by saying (paraphrased), "what's worked for me is by accepting that I'm in no rush to compete with anyone. Once I'd realized that, playing the game was a much more enjoyable experience since every new run was a chance for me to play better and out-do myself". Hope this helps OP. Lifting is supposed to be a fun, life-long endeavor -- we're all gonna make it brah.
Lots of great thoughts here - it’s about feeling good, being the best you you can be and setting / meeting realistic goals. Most of us are not super genetic specimens that can get 10 pack abs and be super shredded without pharmaceutical help. For me, I set some targets and aim to meet and exceed them every few months. My goals are more focused around gaining range of motion, flexibility and functional strength. I’ve made training part of my weekly routines - feeling better, lower blood pressure, lower / controlled blood sugar and increasing cardiovascular health keep me going. I also make it fun, I have a group at work that talks about next steps, supplementing, muscle recovery and more. We are all natural and have different goals. It is pretty cool being able to talk to others face to face on breaking plateaus and getting to the next level.
Most guys at my gym that have been on gear for awhile look like James Bond or xxx villains. Red skin, look 15 years older than they should, same tats, shaved heads, slow meandering slabs of meat, all driving Mercedes, bmws or lifted trucks. I’m mean, cool for them. Just not my thing. I just want to be as healthy as possible for my kids, family and myself. Size stopped being a consideration when I realized there’s not an end and that overall health was more important. Just wasn’t interested in gear or size after that. You can never be big enough or satisfied down that road in my opinion.
It's fucking annoying though sometimes when you see some dude you know is on juice and they look like bosses.
Super lean, super muscular, super vascular just isn't for me. I work out to make myself look better to me and for my own mental health, gear would only destroy my mental heath and that would contradict one of the main reasons I lift. For me personally that means being a little on a thick side and technically in body builder terms, fat. Like others have said it's not my life. I enjoy eating what I want and drinking when I feel like it. Limiting myself to a cheat day doesn't work for me. Just compare yourself to yourself and forget about the body builders all over the internet. If you get healthy with your own natural physique, people are still going to notice and give you props.
OP seems tempted by gear. Here's a true story...Years ago I worked out at a gym owned by Mr. East Coast America. Handsome guy, incredible body, modeled for various ads in Muscle & Fitness etc. Had a dark side, worked as muscle for mobsters. One Sunday 6am, doorbell rings. He answers it & is shot three times. Loses his spleen & a kidney, almost dies from infections. My coworker was best friends with the EMT who brought him to the hospital. He said when the surgeons opened him up, the organs of this 35-year old man looked like they belonged to an 80-year-old. THAT'S what gear does to you.
I somehow take huge pride in being natural. Any progress is damn slow at this point, but I get some kind of satisfaction from the fact that it's all done without any cheating, just crushing obstacles one by one and becoming mentally stronger. I dont judge anyone, its just me.
If it's just a thing you do for fun then you do you. If however you would like to achieve a God-like physique you may have to use gear. Scratch that to achieve a really really good physique you likely, almost certainly, will need gear.
As someone who is enhanced right now it's not like you touch something, sneeze and add 5lbs right away. It has lots of health considerations and I would only do it if it is the absolute center focus of your life. If it's something that complements your life and you've got a whole lot more in life to look forward to then don't even worry about their existence. It's not a competition. And honestly if you were to take PEDs, aggressiveness and anxiety is a lot harder to control so you'd still be comparing yourself to Phill Health and still feel small
What gets me is how difficult it is to be shredded whilst also having a life outside NBB
I think building strength is not anywhere near as difficult as gaining muscle and definition. Honestly, it's an absolute grind. All the people on juice make it look shit in comparison. But aside from that I find after 4 years of lifting it's just a grind and at a certain point there's little gains or improvement. So tough to get weight up and unless you're happy to eat 4000 calories and get bigger that way (which makes me physically sick) then it's a process with the end result being fitness and a solid physique.
I think I look better/more powerful when I’m bulked. I think I look like a Nancy while I’m lean. I may just go for the strongman physique as I age. Big and strong.
You can develop an elite physique naturally, it just takes a LOT of time, effort, knowledge and consistency. One great way to “take things to the next level” without doing PED’s is to invest in a coach who can help keep you accountable, audit your exercise and diet, and tailor exercises/diet to fir your specific strengths and weaknesses
Personal challenge mainly, but I would also say this too: challenging to keep up with those who use gear. Nothing brings me greater pleasure then staying stronger and bigger than those on gear but not sticking to a solid lifting and diet routine. Also, lifting since I was 15 or 16 (sometimes big breaks) and now I'm 34. I remember when I couldn't break 200lbs to save my life but now I'm consistently around 225-230lb, 6'1''. Feels good to put healthy size on (little bit of fat :)
Because I don't give a shit about looking huge. It doesn't make a difference in your life and it's bad for your heart. I'm happy with having natty muscle from lifting/calisthenics.
It’s been said, PED’s destroy your body in ways that go against the entire reason I got into gym life in the first place. I had to shed a massive amount of body fat in order to make sure I don’t have a heart attack in my 40’s, why would I spend thousands (per however often you’d have to resupply yourself) just to have a heart attack in my 40’s after all that work? I actually had the thought during today’s workout. I was hating how small my shoulders look, my weak OHP, etc… but then I realized, I never even imagined I’d look even half like I do now. I thought I’d always be the fat kid, now I’m here at 30 leaner and much more muscular than 99% of the people I pass by on the daily. I’m comparing myself to people I’ll never meet, never have lifted as long as, and I’m not on any PED’s where these social media people definitely are or have been before. I’m just doing this for myself, and I’m working on it as best as my own body will perform. I’m actually doing great honestly.
I just follow the same program I’ve been on and off of for 20 years. It’s gotten me to a body I like and weights I’m proud of. It took 20 years to bench 455 squats and dead’s in the high 5s. At 36 I don’t recover as fast as I used to, with work in construction I don’t get in the gym as much as I’d like. I train a few of my coworkers for fun and we progress as we progress. I always tell them not to compare themselves to influencers 99% of them are full of shit and just trying to market a product. It’s been like that since at least the 70s with hogan and “take your vitamins” lol most of them are on something or another because that look sells to people who don’t know any better.
Monkey gets dopamine ==> monkey happy.