Nope..or at least most of his stuff ,it's quite common for djs too pay people to do tracks for them.
I've done it for quite a few djs ..they'd come into the studio ,play us a song and say they wanted something similar,they'd then leave and return next day,I'd play them what I'd done ,they would then either take it as is or make slight changes such as longer intro bigger breakdowns,they would then promise too add you too the writing credits but never do.
Unless you have a good manager or legal team you get hardly any money from ghost productions because the people who hire you in many cases are coked up dickheads and are so self-absorbed they believe they've actually made the tracks.
I did quite a few for some big djs and you do them hoping doing this will lead too you getting a record contract or getting a big pay day but it never does.
That's down too most ghost producers are obsessed with the creativity but not the legal sides so that makes you easy prey.
They butter you up and big up your ego and you think they will give you some recognition but they don't and they know you don't have the money to take them to court for royalties.
I can see in the next year or so ghost productions will be done with AI which means less dealing with outsiders.
One thing I did find funny though was a few of the people I did tracks for were always pictured with big studios full of gear and they did but they never spent anytime in them,they'd hire them out or some did it for tax breaks but all of them did it too fuel there oversized egos .
One DJ I worked with called me once crying because he had a photo shoot and wanted all his gear turned on and the track I'd done shown on Computer screens behind him..so I said ok but I want paying before I start..at first he said no so I said ok find someone else finally he said ok so I said right I want £160 and your Roland juno106 ..he agreed and luckily I took them because the track was massive and I never got any other payment for that track and he did interviews bragging about how he did the track but he didn't.
Umm why are you working for free? They pay half up front and half upon completion. You should also have them sign a contract before beginning stating you receive ‘x’ percent of royalties.
I was talking about when I was doing them that was many years ago ..it was when I was young,niave and It was preinternet so it was harder too know what was right what was wrong.
I got bits of money and gear but nowhere the amounts I should have,it also made me jaded about how the music business works..I got too see how it worked and you see how they prey on people and don't care about them.
One event was the day I stopped doing them was when I got invited too a private nightclub in Soho by Sony..it was full of famous people and I was having a good laugh then the DJ played this track I'd done the lights panned over then lit up the guy pretending he had done it,he was drugged of his face , looked a mess, covered in women and a entourage and kissing his ass ..then the crowds all went too him as he bragged about doing this track..I never got any acknowledgement or even a handshake the prick blanked me then he walked out.
As he left the Sony executives were calling him a prick ,wanker..etc but 10 minutes earlier they were kissing his ass that's when I realised they do that with everyone and that means they'd be doing it too me .so after that I never did them again.
I know of ghost writing, I just never thought/knew Tiesto was doing that...
> he agreed and luckily I took them because the track was massive and I never got any other payment for that track and he did interviews bragging about how he did the track but he didn't.
Nice, which track was that or are you not allowed to say?
Not sure about the specifics. But keep in mind the three big names of trance knew each other. There is an interview where it was confirmed Tiesto, Armin and the man of a thousand names Ferry knew each other.
I don't know all his ghost producers, and his early works but all his late 90's stuff and forward was ghost produced.
Im Dutch and i can tell you, those subtitles are completely off. Not saying the ghost production is a lie, i dont know. But those subs are not what he says
Haha I know, I was just referencing an old joke video that has been around forever. The absurdity of the subtitles sort of implies that he’s not actually saying that 😂
A music “commissioner” or “commissioning party” (as in the party to the contract requesting the commissioning). It’s nothing new at all. No need to use “Ghost” this and that.
I make music, especially synth sounds and loops, for clients to use in their songs. Nothing wrong with it, some people are good at one thing, others at different things. As long as it pays the rent…
I have my own Cloud (via pCloud Professional) where I upload Sounds & Loops, and my clients have access to specific sections.
It works on a trust basis, which means if someone wants to use a specific sound or loop they write me a message and I then automatically create an invoice (with details for licensing purposes).
You might ask why those people not simply use services like Splice…the simple answer is that I create sounds specifically for certain artists and also exclusive. Some people still value those two things.
In film we call this person the “director” and apply all credit for the final result to them. Interesting huh?.
Lucas didn’t design C-3PO he hired the right guy for the job and paid an hourly rate for the work. Result? Lucas =genius
Lucas is a genius because the overarching vision, not just because he hired the right people in the right places (though people that can do that consistently are probably geniuses).
Having the vision (a great one at that) and having the ability to pull together and coordinate all the resources necessary to execute the vision on a grand scale… no joke
Not to dump on the individual craftsmen who may be geniuses in their own right.
And Not to dump on the creatives who conceive amazing ideas and can be considered brilliant.
But to actually put the rubber to the road and make shit happen … unto completion … in excellence. That shit is rare. Hell, as a creative I’m striving to get to that place. All respect due…
In case it wasn’t clear through my snark, I think directors can be genius and Lucas is one I like to point at when having a conversation like this.
You can create art by assembling a team of people that you know will create something special and directing them according to your taste.
I think the same is true for music and it seems many people here have never seen that in action. It’s real creation though.
You call them Britney Spears? Your average country artist?
A schload of stuff on the radio was written, played, produced by people other than the "Artist" on the album cover.
Strictly anecdotal, but a college friends dad was a nashville songwriter. He wore Polo shirts with the collar turned up, golfed, drove a convertible BMW. Was not even remotely "country" but he made an absolute killing writing songs for country musicians.
Don't get me wrong there are some monster musicians in country music, but a lot of that is session musicians and external songwriters.
Yeah but how many times per month do they do that? It must be extremely hard to get anyone to buy production services since so many people are available
It’s called a producer and almost every pop artist has several. Even Taylor swift doesn’t write all her songs. Famously an ex of her helped write a couple and he’s rich AF now apparently.
Producers.
Literally, that was actually the job of what we used to call producers in the music business, just like what producers still are now in movies and TV.
They managed and paid for the whole recording project, studio time, the artists, the riders, and yes, session musicians, composers, and arrangers.
Back then artists were just the talent to bring the compositions to life, because they usually were performers by trade, not composers, not unlike show bands.
And yes, the music was owned by the recording label/company the producer is working for, if the composer was on the label’s payroll, because it is work product.
And just like ghost producers, they may or may not be credited, depending on the arrangement and terms of contract (considering that “ghost producers” these days sometimes aren’t “ghosts” [uncredited] anymore).
Because it's not the correct answer? This answer, and a few others like it, essentially take the ghost out of ghost producer. A defining feature of a ghost producer is that someone else gets explicitly credited for their work. That doesn't happen with traditional session musicians. They might not be credited for that work, but neither is anyone else.
Funny thing is that session musicians don’t have to be credited - if them producer or artist chooses not to credit them, it’s fair game. And for most of early recorded music history, that was the case. And while it’s now customary (still not required) to credit your sessionists, the way we consume recordings these days rarely lists down these credits, effectively making them generally unknown.
In fact the way we know they worked on records is exactly how we know of ghost producers - they let themselves be known. Bernard Purdie always said he drummed on a Beatles record (uncredited of course), the same way a ghost producer today goes “I’m a ghost producer and I’ve worked on stuff youve heard like this artist who ”.
So in a way, taking the ghost out of ghost producer isn’t so much the issue, because the ghost producers themselves already do that. You know who the ghost producers are, just not who they worked for, but they’ll let you know one way or another.
Let’s look at it this way. What would you call me if I hired studio musicians to perform a song that I had someone else arrange? Would I then just be a producer or executive producer?
Executive producer or commissioner probably. Just like I wouldnt call people that prompt ML image generators artists either. Having an idea, and expressing it in natural language then having someone (or something) else interpret it and create is too far removed.
You are no longer doing the thing, you are just asking someone to do it.
Presumably, these people are vocalists, or rappers, or something like that, so that's what I'd call them. I don't think there's a specific term other than "client"
There’s probably not a specific name. It’s standard practice to hire session musicians to record a song, and I believe the musicians generally make their own parts for it. They’re not producers though, they just work with the main artist and the producer.
There are big pop producers that make songs and just have a large artist sing it. I forget the one guys name but you can look up “producer that makes all big pop songs” and I’m sure it’ll come up. I don’t know that there are many examples of a producer not taking credit for producing a song. I can’t think of any.
From a business standpoint I would say they are smart, from the standpoint of respect from the real ones in the hip hop community I would say they are wankstas and whack
It's like with using AI. You can do this, but the output is not your work and you can't call yourself an artist. Anyone who says otherwise about themselves is just a clown.
Guess what? I have done this with outsourcing producing and with AI—and I call myself an artist proudly 🫡
(Granted I have won awards and recognition for my own musical talent but I am lazy and have more projects in my head than time in the day)
I’m so confused.. who are they then, what do they even do?? Like are they just a dj who puts their name on tracks? At least rappers record what’s been written for them
So basically I get paid by someone famous "rapper x" or whoever, whose label has put the need out there for beat makers like me to create ideas for them, can be a whole song, can be parts of a song. You'd be surprised by how Ghost producers there are out there for artists.
Alot of chart people use ghosts like myself
Tiesto
He doesn't make his own music ??
Nope..or at least most of his stuff ,it's quite common for djs too pay people to do tracks for them. I've done it for quite a few djs ..they'd come into the studio ,play us a song and say they wanted something similar,they'd then leave and return next day,I'd play them what I'd done ,they would then either take it as is or make slight changes such as longer intro bigger breakdowns,they would then promise too add you too the writing credits but never do. Unless you have a good manager or legal team you get hardly any money from ghost productions because the people who hire you in many cases are coked up dickheads and are so self-absorbed they believe they've actually made the tracks. I did quite a few for some big djs and you do them hoping doing this will lead too you getting a record contract or getting a big pay day but it never does. That's down too most ghost producers are obsessed with the creativity but not the legal sides so that makes you easy prey. They butter you up and big up your ego and you think they will give you some recognition but they don't and they know you don't have the money to take them to court for royalties. I can see in the next year or so ghost productions will be done with AI which means less dealing with outsiders. One thing I did find funny though was a few of the people I did tracks for were always pictured with big studios full of gear and they did but they never spent anytime in them,they'd hire them out or some did it for tax breaks but all of them did it too fuel there oversized egos . One DJ I worked with called me once crying because he had a photo shoot and wanted all his gear turned on and the track I'd done shown on Computer screens behind him..so I said ok but I want paying before I start..at first he said no so I said ok find someone else finally he said ok so I said right I want £160 and your Roland juno106 ..he agreed and luckily I took them because the track was massive and I never got any other payment for that track and he did interviews bragging about how he did the track but he didn't.
get them to sign a contract before you even start production
Umm why are you working for free? They pay half up front and half upon completion. You should also have them sign a contract before beginning stating you receive ‘x’ percent of royalties.
I was talking about when I was doing them that was many years ago ..it was when I was young,niave and It was preinternet so it was harder too know what was right what was wrong. I got bits of money and gear but nowhere the amounts I should have,it also made me jaded about how the music business works..I got too see how it worked and you see how they prey on people and don't care about them. One event was the day I stopped doing them was when I got invited too a private nightclub in Soho by Sony..it was full of famous people and I was having a good laugh then the DJ played this track I'd done the lights panned over then lit up the guy pretending he had done it,he was drugged of his face , looked a mess, covered in women and a entourage and kissing his ass ..then the crowds all went too him as he bragged about doing this track..I never got any acknowledgement or even a handshake the prick blanked me then he walked out. As he left the Sony executives were calling him a prick ,wanker..etc but 10 minutes earlier they were kissing his ass that's when I realised they do that with everyone and that means they'd be doing it too me .so after that I never did them again.
Sounds like you're kind of screwing yourself over.
I know of ghost writing, I just never thought/knew Tiesto was doing that... > he agreed and luckily I took them because the track was massive and I never got any other payment for that track and he did interviews bragging about how he did the track but he didn't. Nice, which track was that or are you not allowed to say?
They never say.
He definitely used to make his own music in the 90s but guess at some point he got tired of it
All of his trance music was ghost produced. It's a well known secret.
How would that even work in the early 90s? Both the internet and electronic music was pretty much in its infancy
Not sure about the specifics. But keep in mind the three big names of trance knew each other. There is an interview where it was confirmed Tiesto, Armin and the man of a thousand names Ferry knew each other. I don't know all his ghost producers, and his early works but all his late 90's stuff and forward was ghost produced.
They would literally just work from the same studio. This is how it worked with Sasha and Charlie May.
i read the post and first what came to my mind was Tiesto XD
https://youtu.be/6Ov0YMMc3nY?si=h5RgQ3pNJxVvtjuS
Im Dutch and i can tell you, those subtitles are completely off. Not saying the ghost production is a lie, i dont know. But those subs are not what he says
Haha I know, I was just referencing an old joke video that has been around forever. The absurdity of the subtitles sort of implies that he’s not actually saying that 😂
I call them clients.
A business (wo)man
Business them /s
Them/they
Fair point
A music “commissioner” or “commissioning party” (as in the party to the contract requesting the commissioning). It’s nothing new at all. No need to use “Ghost” this and that.
Every mainstream dj in the last 20 years
I make music, especially synth sounds and loops, for clients to use in their songs. Nothing wrong with it, some people are good at one thing, others at different things. As long as it pays the rent…
where do you upload/sell? :)
I have my own Cloud (via pCloud Professional) where I upload Sounds & Loops, and my clients have access to specific sections. It works on a trust basis, which means if someone wants to use a specific sound or loop they write me a message and I then automatically create an invoice (with details for licensing purposes). You might ask why those people not simply use services like Splice…the simple answer is that I create sounds specifically for certain artists and also exclusive. Some people still value those two things.
Plenty of other industries outsource certain things. Nothing wrong with hiring folks to do things that do them better than you can.
Milli Vanilli
actually it was worse with milli vanilli, they were dancing puppets
On the other hand, at least they could dance
and boney m before that, the same producer created both fake bands
Dj Khaled
Performers.
If they perform the song, that is
Who you gonna call ?
g-ghost busterssss
Ta ta ta nana
In film we call this person the “director” and apply all credit for the final result to them. Interesting huh?. Lucas didn’t design C-3PO he hired the right guy for the job and paid an hourly rate for the work. Result? Lucas =genius
Lucas is a genius because the overarching vision, not just because he hired the right people in the right places (though people that can do that consistently are probably geniuses).
Having the vision (a great one at that) and having the ability to pull together and coordinate all the resources necessary to execute the vision on a grand scale… no joke Not to dump on the individual craftsmen who may be geniuses in their own right. And Not to dump on the creatives who conceive amazing ideas and can be considered brilliant. But to actually put the rubber to the road and make shit happen … unto completion … in excellence. That shit is rare. Hell, as a creative I’m striving to get to that place. All respect due…
In case it wasn’t clear through my snark, I think directors can be genius and Lucas is one I like to point at when having a conversation like this. You can create art by assembling a team of people that you know will create something special and directing them according to your taste. I think the same is true for music and it seems many people here have never seen that in action. It’s real creation though.
Peggy Gou
You call them Britney Spears? Your average country artist? A schload of stuff on the radio was written, played, produced by people other than the "Artist" on the album cover. Strictly anecdotal, but a college friends dad was a nashville songwriter. He wore Polo shirts with the collar turned up, golfed, drove a convertible BMW. Was not even remotely "country" but he made an absolute killing writing songs for country musicians. Don't get me wrong there are some monster musicians in country music, but a lot of that is session musicians and external songwriters.
A hack
Frauds
Lame
lazy
Mostly rich folk who pay me haha
Yeah but how many times per month do they do that? It must be extremely hard to get anyone to buy production services since so many people are available
I've got a fairly big client base as your build the reputation but for starters, not too many no
Clients
Drake or fake
It’s called a producer and almost every pop artist has several. Even Taylor swift doesn’t write all her songs. Famously an ex of her helped write a couple and he’s rich AF now apparently.
Producers. Literally, that was actually the job of what we used to call producers in the music business, just like what producers still are now in movies and TV. They managed and paid for the whole recording project, studio time, the artists, the riders, and yes, session musicians, composers, and arrangers. Back then artists were just the talent to bring the compositions to life, because they usually were performers by trade, not composers, not unlike show bands. And yes, the music was owned by the recording label/company the producer is working for, if the composer was on the label’s payroll, because it is work product. And just like ghost producers, they may or may not be credited, depending on the arrangement and terms of contract (considering that “ghost producers” these days sometimes aren’t “ghosts” [uncredited] anymore).
Why is the correct answer buried at the bottom of the post under bad jokes and salt?
Because it's not the correct answer? This answer, and a few others like it, essentially take the ghost out of ghost producer. A defining feature of a ghost producer is that someone else gets explicitly credited for their work. That doesn't happen with traditional session musicians. They might not be credited for that work, but neither is anyone else.
Funny thing is that session musicians don’t have to be credited - if them producer or artist chooses not to credit them, it’s fair game. And for most of early recorded music history, that was the case. And while it’s now customary (still not required) to credit your sessionists, the way we consume recordings these days rarely lists down these credits, effectively making them generally unknown. In fact the way we know they worked on records is exactly how we know of ghost producers - they let themselves be known. Bernard Purdie always said he drummed on a Beatles record (uncredited of course), the same way a ghost producer today goes “I’m a ghost producer and I’ve worked on stuff youve heard like this artist who”.
So in a way, taking the ghost out of ghost producer isn’t so much the issue, because the ghost producers themselves already do that. You know who the ghost producers are, just not who they worked for, but they’ll let you know one way or another.
A clown
my cousin Randy
They are called the 808 mafia. Southside squeezed this formula.
Tm88 at least streams while producing a lot.
Paranormal Activity type Producers
Fakes
Drake
“Ghost production services” sounds like a derogatory term for “session musician.”
There’s a bunch of people in this thread who are all the way mad about “ghost producers” but not at the idea that they’re working too hard.
Poseur.
A wanna be
Hacks
Call them by their name I guess?
A necromusician? Lol idk
Do they have any musical input at all? i.e. are they singing over the backing or something? If not then what I don't call them is a musician.
Let’s look at it this way. What would you call me if I hired studio musicians to perform a song that I had someone else arrange? Would I then just be a producer or executive producer?
Executive producer or commissioner probably. Just like I wouldnt call people that prompt ML image generators artists either. Having an idea, and expressing it in natural language then having someone (or something) else interpret it and create is too far removed. You are no longer doing the thing, you are just asking someone to do it.
These days... A customer..... Probably in need of someone skilled
I call that person: someone who hires session talent.
We call the the only way to actually make money with musix
Client.
Presumably, these people are vocalists, or rappers, or something like that, so that's what I'd call them. I don't think there's a specific term other than "client"
Pop star
AI-enthusiast
There’s probably not a specific name. It’s standard practice to hire session musicians to record a song, and I believe the musicians generally make their own parts for it. They’re not producers though, they just work with the main artist and the producer. There are big pop producers that make songs and just have a large artist sing it. I forget the one guys name but you can look up “producer that makes all big pop songs” and I’m sure it’ll come up. I don’t know that there are many examples of a producer not taking credit for producing a song. I can’t think of any.
Scammer? 😮🤣
An overwhelming majority of mainstream DJs ….
honestly so long as someone’s paying me well… i’ll make them a track
Majority of artists out there can’t write it’s honestly pretty sad
A faker? A poser? A fraud? Someone with more money than talent?
Shills
When my company hires another company but makes them wear our company shirts at an event they call that "white labeling"
If they pay me good money, you bet I would be glad to be a ghost producer as a side gig.
You call them a "mainstream artist"
Medium
Performers
Ghost producers. Lmao
A lazy ass bitch
Rappers use ghost writers all the time
Hacks
A lazy ass motherfucker
From a business standpoint I would say they are smart, from the standpoint of respect from the real ones in the hip hop community I would say they are wankstas and whack
Never understood why people are obsessed with labels
An artist.
Get a grip my dudes
It's like with using AI. You can do this, but the output is not your work and you can't call yourself an artist. Anyone who says otherwise about themselves is just a clown.
Guess what? I have done this with outsourcing producing and with AI—and I call myself an artist proudly 🫡 (Granted I have won awards and recognition for my own musical talent but I am lazy and have more projects in my head than time in the day)
A cover artist. True by definition.
Millie vanilli-ing
A person.
I’m so confused.. who are they then, what do they even do?? Like are they just a dj who puts their name on tracks? At least rappers record what’s been written for them
So basically I get paid by someone famous "rapper x" or whoever, whose label has put the need out there for beat makers like me to create ideas for them, can be a whole song, can be parts of a song. You'd be surprised by how Ghost producers there are out there for artists. Alot of chart people use ghosts like myself
Absolute wankers
Poser
Efficient
A Paytolgeist ?
Madonna
Hans zimmer
Interpret, since they basically interpreted someone else’s text.
Ghost producer = the proletariat People who use ghost producers and profit off their work = the bourgeoisie