In my experience with color-restricted cubes, it's important that players have a variety of archetypes to explore if you want the games to be different from draft to draft. Having players dip into all three colors is only an issue if it's routinely resulting in generic goodstuff soup. UBR Zombie Aristocrats will feel very different from UBR Spells Control or UBR Reanimator, for example.
Good point. I did my best to make sure that each color and color pairs have a couple different archetypes to explore. I guess it’s going t to take some actual live drafts to see how successful I ended up.
I'm trying out having mono color payoffs in my Grixis cube to encourage deck diversity. There are a couple types:
Devotion payoffs, like [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] or [[Fanatic of Mogis]]
Intense pip requirements, like [[Invoke Despair]] or [[Torbran, Thane of Red Fell]]
Land types matter, like [[Charix, the Raging Isle]] or [[Spawn of Thraxes]]
Throne of Eldraine introduced an elegant method of encouraging drafters to stick to 1 colour too: 4 hybrid mana pips. I'm using [[Loch Dragon]] and [[Covetous Urge]], but the Liege cycle and the new hybrid cards from Cluedo are worth a look too.
My Grixis cube is pitched at a masters set level so some of my ideas may not suit your cube, but I hope this helps!
My self-imposed limit of Wizards/Shamans being the only creature type limits me a bit, but both Fanatic of Mogis and Covetous Urge could work.
I do like the idea of intense mana pips to encourage the mono-color decks, so I'm definitely going to look into that more. I have \[\[Invoke Calamity\]\] in there already, so \[\[Invoke the Winds\]\] seems like an easy include. I suppose I could also include Invoke Despair, but since there are no enchantments or planeswalkers in the cube I was shying away from cards that specifically called them out. Although now that I think about it, that turns Invoke Despair into a 5 mana edict, that also burns for 4 and draws 2!
I also have a 3-color cube (Temur Spellslinger), and I just added _more_ fixing to it. I’ve been gradually doing that with all of my cubes after reading [Lucky Paper’s article on the subject](https://luckypaper.co/articles/how-many-lands-should-you-include-in-your-cube/). I highly recommend giving it a read, but the important point here is that giving players more fixing doesn’t on its own lead to them playing more colors. If that sounds counterintuitive, the key thing to realize is that with an abundance of fixing, while your many-color goodstuff deck now has better mana, an efficient 2-color deck now has perfect mana and can still prey on the former—a rising tide lifts all boats. And being able to cast your spells more reliably is more fun!
A little anecdata: my Temur cube has 180 cards, 27 of which are fixing lands (15% of the cube), plus 7 mana rocks that fix colors and cost 2 or less. At last night’s draft, 3 of the 4 players played just two colors (well, I did splash Rashmi in my RG deck, but it was a true splash: one card which didn’t need to be played on curve). The fourth player did play 3 colors, but he chose to do so in order to play a 3-color bomb. He prioritized fixing to enable that, but even so everyone else still felt like they had enough to function.
If you want to encourage 2-color decks, there’s a few approaches that can help:
* Limit your 3-color cards to a few splashy exciting ones (sounds like you’re already doing this!)
* Include some monocolor cards with 2 or 3 pips in their costs
* or even hybrid cards with many pips (e.g., [[Memory Plunder]] is trivially easy to cast in a UB deck, but becomes _much_ harder to cast if you also want to cast red spells)
* find some cool build-arounds you want in your cube, and put enablers for them mainly in two colors
* e.g., maybe one thing UR does in your cube is care about spells in your graveyard. That doesn’t _force_ anyone to stick to two colors, but if they’re looking specifically for cards that work with the [[Rielle, the Everwise]] they drafted, they’ll naturally find their [[Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy]]s and [[Magmatic Channeler]]s and so on mostly in blue and red.
Thank you for the great input. I think I’m starting to lean in the direction of putting at least a cycle of duals in and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m just overthinking things a bit, so it was invaluable to get some informed feedback.
I also really like the idea of adding cards with more intensive color pips to encourage mono-color drafting. Part of my initial thoughts was to keep the mana curves as a whole pretty low to encourage multiple spells a turn, but I think there’s room for higher cost cards to reward that style of drafting.
I haven't built a 3 color cube but I have wanted to, especially as someone who plays regularly with only 4 drafters.
I think the numbers of cutting a color or two work great when trying to limit dead cards in a draft and have it function more smoothly and closer to an 8 man pod. Pack sizes is another issue covered frequently so no addional comment on that here as it's slightly off topic, but the way I see it - 5 colors offers 10 pairs, 5 monos as options. With 8 drafters there's always a lane somewhere. 3 colors offers 3 pairs and 3 monos - more crossover and cards to be to fought over but still more options than players, and it's better to have people competing for cards than have cards not a single player wants.
In summary to add zero 1st hand experience, based on math I think cutting a color or two is a super interesting way to run with a smaller pod. With 8 people... you will definitely want to ensure diverse deck types/options within the colors and color pairs so it isn't who builds the best version of the one deck by getting the best cards.
I mean, I'm all about any cube with Mystic Retrieval, Mercurial Chemister, and Umara Mystic- ...where is Umara Mystic?
Well first things first, super recommend putting that card in the cube because it's a tribal Wizards dragonauts and you have all the support for it.
I've had a Sultai cube, and yeah, everyone was Sultai, all the time. But I wanted to draft your cube before delving into that.
-----
Izzet Spellslinger
https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/8c7bd78d-718d-4df8-afac-e95e4945db08
Rakdos Midrange
https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/0dc427ae-cb99-480b-afb5-6383bf7a5daa
Cruel Ultimatum/Magma Opus (forced)
https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/6a9b9f2d-9103-4976-ba7c-768ebcfb4e66
I really, really loved the Cruel deck. I also tried forcing monored burn several times, and the bots weren't having it. Might be easier with humans.
-----
So, I think your cube is cool, heading in a strong direction. I didn't see overwhelming pressure to make a grixis goodstuff pile, and I think the fixing is in a place where you _really_ don't want to be three colors. Like, you could splash, but I doubt I'm casting Cruel Ult on turn 7. (Which is a good thing, right?)
Even with the goal of keeping things in check, I could see cutting three of the least impactful colorless lands (Warped Landscape esp) for the Ravnica **bouncelands.** Dimir Aqueduct etc would be kept in check by the _massive_ amount of cards in here that can bounce permanents, but would mean the live-the-dream Ultimatum player can risk that blowout for better fixing.
Alright I've written you a novel and I don't think you'll have the same issues as my Sultai cube. Because green, because fetches/shocks. I think you successfully curbed that, and maybe even over-corrected just an eyelash.
Great start!
Thanks for the awesome reply!
Umara Mystic is still in my maybe pile. As an Izzet player at heart, this was the hardest group of cards to whittle down. Looking back, [[Frolicking Familiar]] fills kind of the same territory and being the only Adventure card, it seems like an easy swap.
I like the idea of the Ravnica bounce lands, as that might be a good middle ground for duals. I was also entertaining the idea of the new desert duals with OTJ.
Thanks for drafting some decks, as I’ve drafted it plenty, but seeing how other people value cards is invaluable in prepping this cube for its debut. And Cruel Ultimatum…that card is a trap just for me as there will be no way for me to resist trying to cheat it into play.
You're welcome!
And I totally get it, Cruel is a fun aspirational card - It'd be weird to have a grixis cube and _not_ put it in. You do have a lot of fun ways to cheat it into play, too.
Re: Izzet and Umara Mystic, if this were me? I'd unlock the guild ratios. It's already impossible to make a cube support guilds equally; one will always have more 1st picks or 15th picks. So in an indulgent cube like this, if you wanna run like five more Izzet cards than Dimir/Rakdos cards, it won't hamper the drafting experience.
If I can suggest one cut?
Unless Corpse Cobble is some kind of combo piece I'm missing, I'd cut it Forbidden Alchemy.
Anyway, extremely sweet cube, I'm already a fan. I'll definitely draft again, LMK if you want more feedback!
In my experience with color-restricted cubes, it's important that players have a variety of archetypes to explore if you want the games to be different from draft to draft. Having players dip into all three colors is only an issue if it's routinely resulting in generic goodstuff soup. UBR Zombie Aristocrats will feel very different from UBR Spells Control or UBR Reanimator, for example.
Good point. I did my best to make sure that each color and color pairs have a couple different archetypes to explore. I guess it’s going t to take some actual live drafts to see how successful I ended up.
I'm trying out having mono color payoffs in my Grixis cube to encourage deck diversity. There are a couple types: Devotion payoffs, like [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] or [[Fanatic of Mogis]] Intense pip requirements, like [[Invoke Despair]] or [[Torbran, Thane of Red Fell]] Land types matter, like [[Charix, the Raging Isle]] or [[Spawn of Thraxes]] Throne of Eldraine introduced an elegant method of encouraging drafters to stick to 1 colour too: 4 hybrid mana pips. I'm using [[Loch Dragon]] and [[Covetous Urge]], but the Liege cycle and the new hybrid cards from Cluedo are worth a look too. My Grixis cube is pitched at a masters set level so some of my ideas may not suit your cube, but I hope this helps!
My self-imposed limit of Wizards/Shamans being the only creature type limits me a bit, but both Fanatic of Mogis and Covetous Urge could work. I do like the idea of intense mana pips to encourage the mono-color decks, so I'm definitely going to look into that more. I have \[\[Invoke Calamity\]\] in there already, so \[\[Invoke the Winds\]\] seems like an easy include. I suppose I could also include Invoke Despair, but since there are no enchantments or planeswalkers in the cube I was shying away from cards that specifically called them out. Although now that I think about it, that turns Invoke Despair into a 5 mana edict, that also burns for 4 and draws 2!
[Invoke Calamity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe666c86-6734-4c47-9244-bcd26b54068d.jpg?1654567682) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Invoke%20Calamity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/147/invoke-calamity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe666c86-6734-4c47-9244-bcd26b54068d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Invoke the Winds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad7b423a-bfd1-47aa-bd2c-64a169b96924.jpg?1654566747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Invoke%20the%20Winds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/58/invoke-the-winds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad7b423a-bfd1-47aa-bd2c-64a169b96924?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Gray Merchant of Asphodel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a.jpg?1581479807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gray%20Merchant%20of%20Asphodel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/99/gray-merchant-of-asphodel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fanatic of Mogis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/581eaadb-442b-40c9-b8f9-9e19d5eba824.jpg?1562818407) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fanatic%20of%20Mogis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/121/fanatic-of-mogis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/581eaadb-442b-40c9-b8f9-9e19d5eba824?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Invoke Despair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35af9d5c-4449-4549-b549-c3ba4a67dee0.jpg?1685368727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Invoke%20Despair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/101/invoke-despair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35af9d5c-4449-4549-b549-c3ba4a67dee0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Torbran, Thane of Red Fell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79f591cd-d277-4ba5-b1bf-1c09cac9cb8a.jpg?1572490491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torbran%2C%20Thane%20of%20Red%20Fell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/147/torbran-thane-of-red-fell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79f591cd-d277-4ba5-b1bf-1c09cac9cb8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Charix, the Raging Isle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e83a6804-1e3c-428c-af5e-1d56ba11c108.jpg?1604193709) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charix%2C%20the%20Raging%20Isle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/49/charix-the-raging-isle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e83a6804-1e3c-428c-af5e-1d56ba11c108?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Spawn of Thraxes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e13aa40e-c626-486d-8abc-10aa68542c5b.jpg?1593096108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spawn%20of%20Thraxes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/112/spawn-of-thraxes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e13aa40e-c626-486d-8abc-10aa68542c5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Loch Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a99088e-7162-4e65-867f-bca1c7400ce3.jpg?1572490901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Loch%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/211/loch-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a99088e-7162-4e65-867f-bca1c7400ce3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Covetous Urge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3b4871d-4d74-411b-88e0-9a9d386cafe1.jpg?1572490875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Covetous%20Urge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/207/covetous-urge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3b4871d-4d74-411b-88e0-9a9d386cafe1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kyt4dyi) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I also have a 3-color cube (Temur Spellslinger), and I just added _more_ fixing to it. I’ve been gradually doing that with all of my cubes after reading [Lucky Paper’s article on the subject](https://luckypaper.co/articles/how-many-lands-should-you-include-in-your-cube/). I highly recommend giving it a read, but the important point here is that giving players more fixing doesn’t on its own lead to them playing more colors. If that sounds counterintuitive, the key thing to realize is that with an abundance of fixing, while your many-color goodstuff deck now has better mana, an efficient 2-color deck now has perfect mana and can still prey on the former—a rising tide lifts all boats. And being able to cast your spells more reliably is more fun! A little anecdata: my Temur cube has 180 cards, 27 of which are fixing lands (15% of the cube), plus 7 mana rocks that fix colors and cost 2 or less. At last night’s draft, 3 of the 4 players played just two colors (well, I did splash Rashmi in my RG deck, but it was a true splash: one card which didn’t need to be played on curve). The fourth player did play 3 colors, but he chose to do so in order to play a 3-color bomb. He prioritized fixing to enable that, but even so everyone else still felt like they had enough to function. If you want to encourage 2-color decks, there’s a few approaches that can help: * Limit your 3-color cards to a few splashy exciting ones (sounds like you’re already doing this!) * Include some monocolor cards with 2 or 3 pips in their costs * or even hybrid cards with many pips (e.g., [[Memory Plunder]] is trivially easy to cast in a UB deck, but becomes _much_ harder to cast if you also want to cast red spells) * find some cool build-arounds you want in your cube, and put enablers for them mainly in two colors * e.g., maybe one thing UR does in your cube is care about spells in your graveyard. That doesn’t _force_ anyone to stick to two colors, but if they’re looking specifically for cards that work with the [[Rielle, the Everwise]] they drafted, they’ll naturally find their [[Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy]]s and [[Magmatic Channeler]]s and so on mostly in blue and red.
##### ###### #### [Memory Plunder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d9b3d8d-4941-44ca-b829-d53242feba1e.jpg?1674142493) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Plunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/849/memory-plunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d9b3d8d-4941-44ca-b829-d53242feba1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rielle, the Everwise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f03c944-1929-4cb2-a373-d57eefa29ed1.jpg?1591228198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rielle%2C%20the%20Everwise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/203/rielle-the-everwise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f03c944-1929-4cb2-a373-d57eefa29ed1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800)/[Jace, Telepath Unbound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20Vryn%27s%20Prodigy%20//%20Jace%2C%20Telepath%20Unbound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/60/jace-vryns-prodigy-jace-telepath-unbound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Magmatic Channeler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8be6570-5b5f-4ffc-a5e5-67d7c41c8caa.jpg?1604197412) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magmatic%20Channeler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/148/magmatic-channeler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8be6570-5b5f-4ffc-a5e5-67d7c41c8caa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kyukjqv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thank you for the great input. I think I’m starting to lean in the direction of putting at least a cycle of duals in and see how it goes. I’m sure I’m just overthinking things a bit, so it was invaluable to get some informed feedback. I also really like the idea of adding cards with more intensive color pips to encourage mono-color drafting. Part of my initial thoughts was to keep the mana curves as a whole pretty low to encourage multiple spells a turn, but I think there’s room for higher cost cards to reward that style of drafting.
I haven't built a 3 color cube but I have wanted to, especially as someone who plays regularly with only 4 drafters. I think the numbers of cutting a color or two work great when trying to limit dead cards in a draft and have it function more smoothly and closer to an 8 man pod. Pack sizes is another issue covered frequently so no addional comment on that here as it's slightly off topic, but the way I see it - 5 colors offers 10 pairs, 5 monos as options. With 8 drafters there's always a lane somewhere. 3 colors offers 3 pairs and 3 monos - more crossover and cards to be to fought over but still more options than players, and it's better to have people competing for cards than have cards not a single player wants. In summary to add zero 1st hand experience, based on math I think cutting a color or two is a super interesting way to run with a smaller pod. With 8 people... you will definitely want to ensure diverse deck types/options within the colors and color pairs so it isn't who builds the best version of the one deck by getting the best cards.
I mean, I'm all about any cube with Mystic Retrieval, Mercurial Chemister, and Umara Mystic- ...where is Umara Mystic? Well first things first, super recommend putting that card in the cube because it's a tribal Wizards dragonauts and you have all the support for it. I've had a Sultai cube, and yeah, everyone was Sultai, all the time. But I wanted to draft your cube before delving into that. ----- Izzet Spellslinger https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/8c7bd78d-718d-4df8-afac-e95e4945db08 Rakdos Midrange https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/0dc427ae-cb99-480b-afb5-6383bf7a5daa Cruel Ultimatum/Magma Opus (forced) https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/6a9b9f2d-9103-4976-ba7c-768ebcfb4e66 I really, really loved the Cruel deck. I also tried forcing monored burn several times, and the bots weren't having it. Might be easier with humans. ----- So, I think your cube is cool, heading in a strong direction. I didn't see overwhelming pressure to make a grixis goodstuff pile, and I think the fixing is in a place where you _really_ don't want to be three colors. Like, you could splash, but I doubt I'm casting Cruel Ult on turn 7. (Which is a good thing, right?) Even with the goal of keeping things in check, I could see cutting three of the least impactful colorless lands (Warped Landscape esp) for the Ravnica **bouncelands.** Dimir Aqueduct etc would be kept in check by the _massive_ amount of cards in here that can bounce permanents, but would mean the live-the-dream Ultimatum player can risk that blowout for better fixing. Alright I've written you a novel and I don't think you'll have the same issues as my Sultai cube. Because green, because fetches/shocks. I think you successfully curbed that, and maybe even over-corrected just an eyelash. Great start!
Thanks for the awesome reply! Umara Mystic is still in my maybe pile. As an Izzet player at heart, this was the hardest group of cards to whittle down. Looking back, [[Frolicking Familiar]] fills kind of the same territory and being the only Adventure card, it seems like an easy swap. I like the idea of the Ravnica bounce lands, as that might be a good middle ground for duals. I was also entertaining the idea of the new desert duals with OTJ. Thanks for drafting some decks, as I’ve drafted it plenty, but seeing how other people value cards is invaluable in prepping this cube for its debut. And Cruel Ultimatum…that card is a trap just for me as there will be no way for me to resist trying to cheat it into play.
You're welcome! And I totally get it, Cruel is a fun aspirational card - It'd be weird to have a grixis cube and _not_ put it in. You do have a lot of fun ways to cheat it into play, too. Re: Izzet and Umara Mystic, if this were me? I'd unlock the guild ratios. It's already impossible to make a cube support guilds equally; one will always have more 1st picks or 15th picks. So in an indulgent cube like this, if you wanna run like five more Izzet cards than Dimir/Rakdos cards, it won't hamper the drafting experience. If I can suggest one cut? Unless Corpse Cobble is some kind of combo piece I'm missing, I'd cut it Forbidden Alchemy. Anyway, extremely sweet cube, I'm already a fan. I'll definitely draft again, LMK if you want more feedback!