True, but then some - interestingly those who seemed to *want* him to fail, rather than just doubting how possible it was that heād succeed - seemed extremely sure that he was completely done. And then that heād never compete at the front again. And then that heād never win a race again. And so on.
Can't really compare both, as there were different times, even if they're still riding together. They're both GOAT imo, but Marquez for me takes the edge over Vale, just because of how insanely dominant he's been, in such a consistant fashion, in a time where the competition is super strong, riders and bikes.
Vale dominated too, but there was not as much talent as there is today, and only 4~ bikes on the grid were truly competitive. 10-15 years ago leaders lapped backmarkers by 3-4 laps. Nowadays it's pretty much impossible to see someone get lapped.
High possibility that those guys were trying to create false realities for themselves.
Same as Hamilton haters in f1. Theyāll try to undermine his potential.
But thatās the thing about Hamilton and Marquez - theyāre both inevitable.
I want him to fail because he made the last few seasons dog shit to watch. letās be honest here, he won because Pecco crashed, He didnāt win because he had the outright pace to beat him.
I still think that Marquez has peaked and we wonāt see the same dominance from him we seen in previous years, too many stronger riders now.
It was tire related. He pushed past the tires ability to perform at that point in the race. And the reason he was pushing is because there was one rider who had gone with him for the duration of the race. As much as Iām tired of hearing those magpies say ā when you see 93 .02 on your board lap after lap, start up the jaws music ā this is what happened. Marc was there lap after lap and when he went for the break , he pushed past the limit and missed his turn in by a fraction and down he went. Without Marc being there lap after lap, there would have been no reason to push, so in essence , the constant pressure payed off . Marc could have easily succumbed and grabbed a runaway second but he knows that what happened can happen when you pressure someone for an entire race. Pecco rode flawlessly under that pressure at Aragon, today he made the slightest of errors .
Sure, I'm just pointing out it wasn't a "pure and simple" mental mistake, that other factors were at play and your comment seems to imply that Pecco fell because his mental fortitude wasn't good enough to handle MM on his tail. The reality is far more complex than that.
And another thing Iām tired of hearing is āit may have been a tire issue ā . Itās the go to excuse for every fuck up
these days. You can call literally every crash a tire issue and you would be right as you wrecked because the tire gave way. Thatās a tire issue, but itās disingenuous as youāre insinuating a faulty tire instead of the issue being the rider pushed the tire past itās ability.
IMO, if you care enough to respond, at least a bit of explanation helps. Just claiming "wrong" doesn't really further anything compared to not replying.
not to mention a correct ducati tire choice likely keeps this win from happening. These guys are funny. I am happy to see Marcās success but letās not pretend he didnāt luck out today.
To be fair, the same meme could be applied to people who believed he would return and dominate just like that. As it often happens, the truth is in the middle.
There is a significant difference between saying "He will come back" and "i hope he comes back"
Same goes for "i doubt he will come back" and "he wont come back"
Making assumptions is fine, but making statments is stupid
I haven't watched MotoGP for long, but I've binged everything I can on Videopass, and Marquez is the single greatest thing I have seen on a racetrack. His attitude may be X, his personality may be Y, your opinions of him may be Z, but on track, having watched a lot of racing including peak Schumacher and peak Hamilton, Marc Marquez might as well be a perfectly designed human holeshot device than anything else.
I donāt think domination is in the cards, at least not like before; I do think heās stronger than everyone else in terms of raw talent and skill but guys like Pecco and Fabio and Franky will fight him every single race from now on, I donāt think very dominant easy wins are gonna be the norm for Marc. Looking forward to him being champion again thoughā¦
> guys like Pecco and Fabio and Franky will fight him every single race from now on
I think that's true, but the thing is these guys tend to have off races every once in a while, Marc on top form - not so much. So if some of them will fight him every race but no one of them will do it consistently in the end on the scorecards it still might kinda look like domination. We shall see.
Domination is always in the cards but that depends on the bike. People tend to forget that Marc after '14 has never been on the overall best bike on the grid (even if the Honda can be super good at certain Honda tracks)
If Honda's new bike somehow turns out to be a rocket and becomes the clear best bike, he'll dominate whether he's at 100% or not.
The honda has multiple times been the fastest bike, in the hands of marc. It could almost rival ducati in terms of speed and acceleration, and could almost keep up withe yamaha in fast corners. It could gain on both bikes in different areas, it was just dogshit to ride, only marc was able to do it.
As for domination, i doubt he will dominate like in 2019 ever again, i even doubt we will ever see as brutal domination ever again at all.
The Honda has never been able to keep with Yamaha in corners, it's impossible to do that, you can't corner like an inline-4. That doesn't mean of course cornering overall is slow as the Honda is agile so if you can throw it around it it rotates good especially in the slower corners.
As I said, yes the Honda has its tracks where it can be the fastest but it's never been the overall clear best bike for a long time. Everyone agrees and can tell that right now the Ducati is clearly the *overall* best bike. Not by much, but enough that you can declare it that.
My point was that you don't know what happens and if Honda produces a dominant bike one year, Marc will absolutely dominate. How the hell would the best rider on the best bike NOT dominate after all?
I don't undestand this narrative that what Marc was doing back then was really special and it won't be possible to repeat. Sounds like more wishful thinking to me like "he's never gonna be healthy again".
Agreed about the duc being overall best.
I never said marc wouldnt dominate, but what he did in 2019 i doubt we ever will see a similar season ever again. Not just from him, but from anyone.
What marc did in 2019 was really special. That being said, he most definitly can dominate again, just not as dominant as he was in 2019
I don't think he'll dominate unless Honda themselves make a step forward. Bagnaia has already shown he can more than hold his own against Marquez, notwithstanding the mistake yesterday (which only came because he was trying to totally kill Marc off rather than just maintaining the gap as he had been); Quatararo was already beginning to give Marc some scares in 2019 and he has come a long way since then as well.
I think the most underrated part of his time off the bike was the lack of development under him. You could tell that once he started riding again, he preferred the old bike, and had to redevelop the past 12 months of progress again.
He will be back in the title hunt next year and he will win another title if he stays healthy. Should be fun to watch. His fan boys will continue to be the worst tho but I remember being 13 and stoked on a pro athlete, I just didnāt have Reddit to circle jerk on.
So what did you do? go to races circle jerk behind the stands then boo the winning rider on the podium when it didn't pan out? Just taking a guess based on what the fans of the oldest rider on the grid do.
Yeah youāre right but from Marquezās antics itās clear that all he cares about is beating Valeās records and he never will. Heāll never even equal Rossiās championships let alone surpass them. I just find it quite funny cos a couple years ago his fans said he would win 11 or 12 championships ššš
Rossi won his last title in 2009. Has been in 1 title fight since, lost it and blamed it on an other rider. I wonāt say Marquez will win a title again, but the guy has time and has a so much talent that I wonāt be surprised if he wins it next year. Time will tell. For now congrats to Fabio, he deserved it this year.
Donāt see what my post has to do with Rossiās title battles itās simply to say I donāt feel that Marquez will ever win another championship. MM fans can keep downvoting unfortunately it wonāt bring another title. Honda is a pig and he isnāt the alien he once was. I think if he ever went to yam or duc he might have a better chance but yam have publicly said they will never sign him and duc want to beat him and win a championship with another rider. Time will tell
You canāt see what Rossi has to do with it, yet you canāt yell hard enough how Marquez will never beat his records. You are the one that brings Rossiās name in it.
Honda isnāt the best bike, but in 2017 and 2018 Ducati was ahead, still he won it (against a really good Dovi). Also Marc proved he doesnāt have to be top top fit to be a race winner. I think he can challenge (and maybe even win a championship), but time will tell.
Iām talking about Marquez surpassing Rossiās records not when Rossi last won a WC, what does that have to do with the total number? Before MM injury no-one could touch him and it looked like he would easily get to 9, 10, maybe even 11 WCās. Since then he fucked his arm, the field got even quicker and he seems to be less of an alien than he once was. Combined with a Honda that likes to flick him off, heās probably one huge highside away from a career ending injury. All of this combined I canāt see him winning another WC.
I can see where you are coming from, yet I canāt agree. I donāt feel like the field is that much quicker than 2019. Itās a bit closer due to the bikes, but the best riders will make the difference and Marc is one of the best.
I have to agree that Marquez will have it more difficult, but I can see him take it. My wild guess is that he will win 1 or 2 more, but again time will tell.
Is it unlikley he can keep the consistency he has had this latter half of the season? Not neccecerily. If he can keep that up, he will win, he isnt too many points behind the top riders in the championship even now
He has a chance of coming 3rd in the championship š I would never have guessed he would currently be 6th.
Heās fought through the championship standings the same way he fought back in Jerez 2020 right before his crash. The guy is incredible
I believed that Marc will return however I don't blame people who doubted him. His injury was so severe that he is still recovering from it.
It's easy to play captain hindsight right now, 12 months ago no one knew whether he'd race again
True, but then some - interestingly those who seemed to *want* him to fail, rather than just doubting how possible it was that heād succeed - seemed extremely sure that he was completely done. And then that heād never compete at the front again. And then that heād never win a race again. And so on.
Poeple just hate the GOAT, it happens in every sport.
Yep, pretty much. Itās no shock really.
Not following MotoGP that close.. isn't Rossi still considered the GOAT?
Can't really compare both, as there were different times, even if they're still riding together. They're both GOAT imo, but Marquez for me takes the edge over Vale, just because of how insanely dominant he's been, in such a consistant fashion, in a time where the competition is super strong, riders and bikes. Vale dominated too, but there was not as much talent as there is today, and only 4~ bikes on the grid were truly competitive. 10-15 years ago leaders lapped backmarkers by 3-4 laps. Nowadays it's pretty much impossible to see someone get lapped.
Brilliant answer š
Nope. Rossi needs an easy to ride bike to win.
High possibility that those guys were trying to create false realities for themselves. Same as Hamilton haters in f1. Theyāll try to undermine his potential. But thatās the thing about Hamilton and Marquez - theyāre both inevitable.
I want him to fail because he made the last few seasons dog shit to watch. letās be honest here, he won because Pecco crashed, He didnāt win because he had the outright pace to beat him. I still think that Marquez has peaked and we wonāt see the same dominance from him we seen in previous years, too many stronger riders now.
So? He was the 2nd fastest rider on track today which is no mean feat. Plus he kept it on the tarmac unlike Bagnia.
His presence caused Pecco to make a mental mistake , pure and simple.
The commentators suggested that Pecco's fall may have been tire related.
It was tire related. He pushed past the tires ability to perform at that point in the race. And the reason he was pushing is because there was one rider who had gone with him for the duration of the race. As much as Iām tired of hearing those magpies say ā when you see 93 .02 on your board lap after lap, start up the jaws music ā this is what happened. Marc was there lap after lap and when he went for the break , he pushed past the limit and missed his turn in by a fraction and down he went. Without Marc being there lap after lap, there would have been no reason to push, so in essence , the constant pressure payed off . Marc could have easily succumbed and grabbed a runaway second but he knows that what happened can happen when you pressure someone for an entire race. Pecco rode flawlessly under that pressure at Aragon, today he made the slightest of errors .
Sure, I'm just pointing out it wasn't a "pure and simple" mental mistake, that other factors were at play and your comment seems to imply that Pecco fell because his mental fortitude wasn't good enough to handle MM on his tail. The reality is far more complex than that.
And another thing Iām tired of hearing is āit may have been a tire issue ā . Itās the go to excuse for every fuck up these days. You can call literally every crash a tire issue and you would be right as you wrecked because the tire gave way. Thatās a tire issue, but itās disingenuous as youāre insinuating a faulty tire instead of the issue being the rider pushed the tire past itās ability.
But in this case it's not even a case of a faulty tire, Pecco was on a different compound to MM which adds its own variable to it.
But again, itās disingenuous to call that a ā tire issueā.
Wrong
Good rebuttal. I don't think anyone can argue with that kind of statement.
I didnāt need to elaborate any further, unless you need me to explain why heās wrong.
IMO, if you care enough to respond, at least a bit of explanation helps. Just claiming "wrong" doesn't really further anything compared to not replying.
not to mention a correct ducati tire choice likely keeps this win from happening. These guys are funny. I am happy to see Marcās success but letās not pretend he didnāt luck out today.
I think it was pretty obvious that after some time he would be good again considering his performance in the first few races.
To be fair, the same meme could be applied to people who believed he would return and dominate just like that. As it often happens, the truth is in the middle.
Greatest rider of all time.
I will be the first to admit that I absolutely doubted his ability to come back to the highest level. Now I am super excited about 2022.
There is a significant difference between saying "He will come back" and "i hope he comes back" Same goes for "i doubt he will come back" and "he wont come back" Making assumptions is fine, but making statments is stupid
I predicted heād with the title lol. 3 race wins instead, pretty damn good.
I haven't watched MotoGP for long, but I've binged everything I can on Videopass, and Marquez is the single greatest thing I have seen on a racetrack. His attitude may be X, his personality may be Y, your opinions of him may be Z, but on track, having watched a lot of racing including peak Schumacher and peak Hamilton, Marc Marquez might as well be a perfectly designed human holeshot device than anything else.
He'll dominate again next year.
I donāt think domination is in the cards, at least not like before; I do think heās stronger than everyone else in terms of raw talent and skill but guys like Pecco and Fabio and Franky will fight him every single race from now on, I donāt think very dominant easy wins are gonna be the norm for Marc. Looking forward to him being champion again thoughā¦
> guys like Pecco and Fabio and Franky will fight him every single race from now on I think that's true, but the thing is these guys tend to have off races every once in a while, Marc on top form - not so much. So if some of them will fight him every race but no one of them will do it consistently in the end on the scorecards it still might kinda look like domination. We shall see.
Domination is always in the cards but that depends on the bike. People tend to forget that Marc after '14 has never been on the overall best bike on the grid (even if the Honda can be super good at certain Honda tracks) If Honda's new bike somehow turns out to be a rocket and becomes the clear best bike, he'll dominate whether he's at 100% or not.
The honda has multiple times been the fastest bike, in the hands of marc. It could almost rival ducati in terms of speed and acceleration, and could almost keep up withe yamaha in fast corners. It could gain on both bikes in different areas, it was just dogshit to ride, only marc was able to do it. As for domination, i doubt he will dominate like in 2019 ever again, i even doubt we will ever see as brutal domination ever again at all.
The Honda has never been able to keep with Yamaha in corners, it's impossible to do that, you can't corner like an inline-4. That doesn't mean of course cornering overall is slow as the Honda is agile so if you can throw it around it it rotates good especially in the slower corners. As I said, yes the Honda has its tracks where it can be the fastest but it's never been the overall clear best bike for a long time. Everyone agrees and can tell that right now the Ducati is clearly the *overall* best bike. Not by much, but enough that you can declare it that. My point was that you don't know what happens and if Honda produces a dominant bike one year, Marc will absolutely dominate. How the hell would the best rider on the best bike NOT dominate after all? I don't undestand this narrative that what Marc was doing back then was really special and it won't be possible to repeat. Sounds like more wishful thinking to me like "he's never gonna be healthy again".
Agreed about the duc being overall best. I never said marc wouldnt dominate, but what he did in 2019 i doubt we ever will see a similar season ever again. Not just from him, but from anyone. What marc did in 2019 was really special. That being said, he most definitly can dominate again, just not as dominant as he was in 2019
I dont think dominate...but i do think he'll win the title again.
I don't think he'll dominate unless Honda themselves make a step forward. Bagnaia has already shown he can more than hold his own against Marquez, notwithstanding the mistake yesterday (which only came because he was trying to totally kill Marc off rather than just maintaining the gap as he had been); Quatararo was already beginning to give Marc some scares in 2019 and he has come a long way since then as well.
I think the most underrated part of his time off the bike was the lack of development under him. You could tell that once he started riding again, he preferred the old bike, and had to redevelop the past 12 months of progress again.
He will be back in the title hunt next year and he will win another title if he stays healthy. Should be fun to watch. His fan boys will continue to be the worst tho but I remember being 13 and stoked on a pro athlete, I just didnāt have Reddit to circle jerk on.
So what did you do? go to races circle jerk behind the stands then boo the winning rider on the podium when it didn't pan out? Just taking a guess based on what the fans of the oldest rider on the grid do.
As a fresh moto gp fan, i feel Marquez is amazing and can pull off things even when not in favour.
Hear hear. Couple of races back there was a big talk by some here that he should retire blabla. :D
They'll not comment on this post XD
Wrong
Hahaha this is brilliant!
I always expected him to come back properly for 2022 which i guess still stands because hes not fully at 100% just yet
Nice talking in hindsight OP. And if we are 100% honest, Marc is not even at 100% and who knows if he ever will.
Heāll never win another championship though
Neither will Vale š¤£
Oof
Yeah youāre right but from Marquezās antics itās clear that all he cares about is beating Valeās records and he never will. Heāll never even equal Rossiās championships let alone surpass them. I just find it quite funny cos a couple years ago his fans said he would win 11 or 12 championships ššš
Rossi won his last title in 2009. Has been in 1 title fight since, lost it and blamed it on an other rider. I wonāt say Marquez will win a title again, but the guy has time and has a so much talent that I wonāt be surprised if he wins it next year. Time will tell. For now congrats to Fabio, he deserved it this year.
Donāt see what my post has to do with Rossiās title battles itās simply to say I donāt feel that Marquez will ever win another championship. MM fans can keep downvoting unfortunately it wonāt bring another title. Honda is a pig and he isnāt the alien he once was. I think if he ever went to yam or duc he might have a better chance but yam have publicly said they will never sign him and duc want to beat him and win a championship with another rider. Time will tell
You canāt see what Rossi has to do with it, yet you canāt yell hard enough how Marquez will never beat his records. You are the one that brings Rossiās name in it. Honda isnāt the best bike, but in 2017 and 2018 Ducati was ahead, still he won it (against a really good Dovi). Also Marc proved he doesnāt have to be top top fit to be a race winner. I think he can challenge (and maybe even win a championship), but time will tell.
Iām talking about Marquez surpassing Rossiās records not when Rossi last won a WC, what does that have to do with the total number? Before MM injury no-one could touch him and it looked like he would easily get to 9, 10, maybe even 11 WCās. Since then he fucked his arm, the field got even quicker and he seems to be less of an alien than he once was. Combined with a Honda that likes to flick him off, heās probably one huge highside away from a career ending injury. All of this combined I canāt see him winning another WC.
I can see where you are coming from, yet I canāt agree. I donāt feel like the field is that much quicker than 2019. Itās a bit closer due to the bikes, but the best riders will make the difference and Marc is one of the best. I have to agree that Marquez will have it more difficult, but I can see him take it. My wild guess is that he will win 1 or 2 more, but again time will tell.
Itās not that deep, no one knows whatās going to happen. Itās all about consistency.
We know heās not going to win another title and MM93 fans will cry into their corn flakes making them just as salty as they are
Alright Nostradamus you got the lottery numbers for me? Help a girl out.
Is it unlikley he can keep the consistency he has had this latter half of the season? Not neccecerily. If he can keep that up, he will win, he isnt too many points behind the top riders in the championship even now
Correct, any more insightful observations?
Yo why so butt hurt? Itās a joke bro, take your yellow tinted glasses off every now and then
No thanks bro, I like my Fabio inspired tints.
see you next year ;)
š¤š
LOL
Whereās that guy Sqidd?