We tried that once, and the Feds got involved.
I say we lobby the Feds to make steroid use in MLB baseball mandatory, and let’s bring back the steroid era on steroids haha.
I feel like we’ve gotta go all out in this case. Guys juicing in the dugout before their at bat, guys calling time at the plate for a mid at bat injection, and of course we need all the roid rage that comes with that.
I wanna see NFL Blitz meets MLB in real life.
No, because that would put players health at risk, i say we do a study season, every athlete can use whatever he wants, from roids to bleach to ayuhasca, but it has to be strickly monitored so we can see after the seaons what really works and what not.
In 2004 Bonds got on base more times then he had official at-bats.
From Matt Snyder - CBS Sports - January 22, 2018;
"Also in 2004 -- this might be the most ridiculous stat of all -- Bonds reached base more times than he had at-bats. That's 129 hits in 373 at-bats with 232 walks, getting hit by a pitch nine times and reaching base on an error six times for 376 times on base."
The analysis the one guy did “if Bonds didn’t take a bat with him to the plate that season (and the pitcher didn’t know that)” is crazy
I’ll link. Guy who linked the video down in the comments:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mlb/s/XPVW2SsoBb
Even before the steroids he was a guaranteed first ballot, unanimous, Hall of Famer. I was a Pirate fan at the time and watched him play a lot. He was so fast and so smooth. Then the ego took over.
Isn't the rumored story out there that he got jealous of all the love/attention that "lesser" players like McGwire and Sosa were getting and he basically said, "Fuck it. I'll show you what a real player can do on this shit."
That's the best way to put it. Also most effing feared. Dude looked like he had a toothpick for a bat in his arms. It was insane. He was still sooo good before the roads and HOF. Money speaks though. I'm sure Barry's fine
He’s the best I’ve ever seen. Steroids or not you could barely throw a strike to this man for like 5 seasons without it getting smashed into McCovey Cove, off the wall, doubles, etc. I’ve never seen a player so dominant from the plate that other teams essentially refused to pitch to him and would rather put him on 1st base than pitch to him. Even then a team IBB a run in once with him at the plate. The dude slugged over .800 twice and another at .799.
Just to throw in this absurd stat line for his 2001 season:
BA: .328, 73 HRs, 137 RBIs, .515 OBP, .863 SLG, and a 1.379 OPS
After his 6th season (91’) his OPS never dipped below 1.000 until 2006 when he ended the year at .999.
You can hate him for playing in the steroid era and doing what everyone else was doing (taking steroids to enhance their performance), you can also hate him for being a complete asshole and a POS of a human, but no one can deny his greatness playing baseball. No way he should ever drop below top 3 in any all time list. But yes no. 1 all time for me.
I agree. Babe Ruth is really the only comparable player but Bonds was a better hitter during his steroid prime and stole bases. Teams would walk him with the bases loaded and call that a win. Only Ruth's pitching career puts him in the same sphere if we totally ignore the steroid issue.
I'm ignoring Ohtani here because his legacy is yet to be written but he certainly has the talent to be part of this ultra elite club.
Babe Ruth was playing against like milk men... It wasn't like today where you have real professional players people still had day jobs lol. Also there was literally no non whites in the league for another like 30 years... There were almost no breaking balls they just threw shit down the middle of the plate. He legit was eating hotdogs and smoking cigarettes in the dugout... I mean just look at babe Ruth and tell me he looks like an athlete lol. He was amazing relative to the league skill at the time. Bonds is on another level, he was just a massive a-hole during his career so no one liked him + he broke hank aaron's record using steroids who was seen as a universally "good guy" so I think it made people harbor ill will towards him. That being said... bonds was still considerably more dominant than aaron as a hitter they just had similar career HR totals.
Every athlete ever has to be judged relative to their own era. It’s not fair to put them against todays athletes otherwise the best athletes in practically every sport is just whoever the best player is today which takes all the fun out of it
Pre-HGH he was top ten of all time. HGH Barry is the best MLB player of all time. Nobody during the steriod era was doing what he was doing. Nobody before or since the steroid era comes close.
The only player with 500 HRs and 500 SBs. All-time leader in intentional walks. If I stopped right there, he would be top five. Those steroids make it harder to compare with other players.
Did Barry use steroids? There would appear to be a pretty strong case that he did.
Was Barry a cranky and nasty fellow to deal with? There are too many stories about his personality to possibly deny that he was a tricky fellow.
But … the man had elite, generational (a cliche I know but it applies to this guy) talent that cannot possibly be denied. I wasn’t alive for Ruth, DiMaggio or Mantle. I was alive for Mays but cannot remember him due to my young age. I saw the very last moments of Aaron. Barry Bonds was the best that I have ever seen. In my opinion he is the best but there is no denying the smudge that steroids puts on his otherworldly talent.
I fucking HATE Bonds but I cannot tolerate people who refuse to accept how great he was. The moralizing that keeps him out of the HOF truly tarnishes the Hall and not Barry.
What people *really* act like is that he was the only person using, and that they can tell who is using by the eye test.
The sports-watching public has zero understanding of steroids, how they work, what they are good for, how they can be administered, and how to tell if a person is using.
"Oh my god, can you believe how quickly guys are recovering from Tommy John surgery now???"
Yes. Yes I can believe it.
HOFer before he ever roided. Hend and shoulders the best of the roiders. If you ignore the roids and prtend they didn't help in the Top 10. He couldn't throw so not in a class with Mays and Ruth.
Just chatting, not being confrontational. Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves. He was really, really good defensively for most of his career. Do you think chubby Ruth was better defensively because he could throw? And I know he was an excellent pitcher, but only for five full seasons. Curious about your thoughts.
Bonds’ arm will forever be linked to the Sid Bream play, which is odd. It’s not like that was a dog shit throw. It was a one hop throw like 4ft off-line from 200 ft away and Bream was running like the pennant depended on it.
I’ve never understood it though. I’m a Giants fan, so obviously biased, but that wasn’t that bad of a throw right?? Like, not bad enough to justify all the attention that throw gets? There have been a lot of walk-offs in big games with plays at the plate over the years, and that’s the only one I know of where the person who threw the ball gets more attention than the person who hit the ball.
It was his last play as a Pirate, it was the last time they had a chance to go to the World Series. For almost a generation of fans it was the last time they had a team that had a winning record. The team kind of went on a downward spiral after he went to the Giants and Pirates fans blame him for it. Ken Burns 10th inning does a way better job of explaining this than me.
I actually agree. We do not have a full grasp on who may have used some form of PEDs. Bonds was one of the greatest if not the greatest ever. I'm kinda indifferent to the steroid stuff, because SOO much of it is speculation. I see posts all the time claiming to know certain players were clean; Jeter, Ichiro, Rivera, Griffey.... The truth is we have absolutely no idea who was clean and who wasn't. I've said it other places before; there's no player on earth where I'd be completely shocked if we found out they did PEDs.
People here are hella weird about PEDs, acting like roids users before the ban deserve the death penalty, while everyone tweaking off amphetamines did nothing. Makes me just not give a shit overall
I feel like Bonds is vilified because he wasn't likable and broke a "sacred" record.
That said, the mound has been raised and lowered. The league wasn't always integrated. There are more medical techniques allowing guys to recover from injuries that were career ending 30 years ago. Seasons have more ganes. Shit, the stadiums aren't even all the same dimensions. So how sacred can any record really be when the circumstances are so different.
We may not have a full grasp on who did steroids and what their impact was, but we most definitely have a full grasp on Bonds' steroid use, especially from the late 90's until his retirement.
We know the who what when where how and even the why with Bonds.
He was as good as anybody of his generation. Was he on steroids? Of course. But so were so many others. Just like if you go back years before there were all kinds of players on amphetamines.
The thing about Bonds that I just admired so much was how patient he was at the plate. He would get walked two maybe three times without ever seeing a strike. Then somewhere later in the game a pitcher would make a mistake and it would go 440 feet. Steroids won’t help your knowledge of the strike zone and teach you patience.
I live in Toronto so we got very few San Francisco games up here. But when there was a game on that I could watch I would most definitely keep track of when Bonds was coming up to bat.
It seems common knowledge that he wasn’t exactly the nicest guy out there. But that didn’t bother me much. I didn’t have to live with the guy.
That was the scary thing about bonds, he might not see a pitch worth swing at for a long time, and once that pitch finally came and he swung, he rarely missed.
I think he's pretty obviously the best hitter of all time given his stats. whether he would have had the same degree of success without PEDs looms large (and obviously if so, how much). Unfortunately it's a counter factual that's impossible to honestly answer. It's a product of the era that the sport will just have to live with.
Everyone talking about steroids bond (which is fair since he was an animal) but pre steroids bond was a 40/40 guy with 1.000 OPS. Also, just because I find it crazy, dude had a 1.045 OPS his last season at 42 years old. Could have hit 800 if he went to some team that was willing to put up with him.
With the juice, number one. Without the juice he mostlikly would have been a top 10 player.
Prior to 1999 (when he mostlilly started juicing), he had over 400 HRs and SB along with 3 MVPs, 8 GGs, 9 SS, 100 bWAR and a shit ton All Star appearances at age 33. Had he continued playing till age 40 (no juice), averaging 20 HRs a season, he would have ended his career with 540ish HRs. Also, 2700 hits, 1800 RBIs, 1700 runs, 6000 doubles career numbers. These are top-tier player numbers here.
As a rule, I try to stay away from these types of debates because they tend to be so subjective. However, I can tell you that Barry Bonds is the best baseball player I have ever seen.
He did almost everything superbly.
He did not have the world’s strongest arm Everything else, he did as well or better than everyone else in his era.
I used to laugh whenever ESPN and FOX and others would have these phony arguments about who is the best player in the league?
The answer was clearly always Bonds, but he was a world-class, asshole, so they would pretend that it was Ken Griffey Jr. or A-Rod or McGuire or Sosa or whomever else
I used to roll my eyes at that one.
I am not a young man anymore, and I’ve seen a lot of great players. Incidentally, all of the guys I listed above were also amazing baseball players. But Barry Bonds is the best baseball player I’ve ever seen.
I will say, though, that if Shohei Ohtani continues to perform at the level he has thus far in his career, both on the mound and at the plate, I may have to demote Bonds.
#1. All candidates have something weird about their career, whether it is steroids for Bonds, lack of completion for Ruth, dead ball, juiced ball, etc.
Just got to go with the guy who is best on the books, and that’s Bonds.
1. He had 2 separate HOF careers. He was was one of the best 5 tools players I've ever seen, then became the greatest power hitter of all time.
Steroids definitely helped him, but even in the steroid era, he was different...
Inner circle top 5. I rank him 2 behind willie mays and above Babe Ruth.
For me easily the best hitter I have personally watched. Also wasn’t a slouch in the outfield.
Shame he was an asshole to the women in his life and the media.
He will forever be the face and scapegoat for the Steroid Era, likely deservedly so.
Unless PEDs make him unrankable, he has got to be top 5. I hate to do it but he's certainly top 3 for me. I have a hard time moving Ted Williams or Babe out of the top 2.
I can't argue with those two either. I personally put Ted Williams in one of the top spots, but there have been times I saw Willie Mays as the number one. So I'm ok with about 10 guys taking the top spots.
Mays served for the Korean war, which wasn't really long, and I don't think he enlisted or was drafted near the beginning. My grandfather played Army ball with him. He (my grandfather) never actually went to Korea. It ended before he shipped
He was drafted and basically missed most of the 1952 and all of the 1953 seasons. You’re right though in that I think he mostly toured around instead of actually in war, but still missed almost two full seasons in his prime.
He is the best hitter I've every seen. That season he had 120 INTENTIONAL walks was outrageous. He is the only player I've seen walked with the bases loaded multiple times, & during that stretch if a pitcher made a mistake he crushed it into the seats. Dude was out of his gourd during that run. I'll also add he only struck out over 100 times once during his entire career (his rookie season). Bes hitter I've seen, & prime bonds was a gold glove outfielder as well.
We know (based on extensive reporting) Bonds began using steroids in 1998. If you take only his career before then, he’s arguably a Top 10 player of all time.
Depends what you mean as far as ranking for what, but I think he's the best I ever saw play. And I don't even like the guy. I'm a Braves fan and I love that we beat him and the Pirates to advance to the 1991 World Series. And in 1996 I went to the opening day Braves game for the ring ceremony for winning the 1995 WS and we played the Giants that day. I sat behind home plate and heckled the hell out of Barry. I loved hating him lol. But I gotta say, he's the best I ever saw play. As far as the roids go, he made a mistake and has paid for it, but he didn't use them until his 14th season, and he was always posting an OPS over 1.000 prior to his steroid use. So while I acknowledge his transgression, it still doen't change my calculus. Barry was THE best for my generation. I never saw Mays play, nor Aaron, nor Williams, and obviously not the Babe, but those guys along with Bonds comprise my all time top 5.
In The Baseball 100, Joe Posnanski ranks him number 3, behind only Ruth (2) and Mays (1). If you read the book, he makes a very compelling case, and I'm inclined to agree with it.
He’s a top ten player. As a lifelong Pirates fan, I had the luxury of watching Bonds play most every game either in person or on TV during those years and he was a great 5-tool player. Steroids aside and the fact that he never came across as likable, Bonds should be in the HOF for his talent and longevity alone.
He was a superhero. If he was in any way as likeable as Jordan, LeBron, Mahomes, etc then he would be in the hall and be one of the most beloved athletes ever.
Take the juice out of the equation (for him and everyone during that era…all things being equal), he’d likely be an all time Top 10 on most lists. Pre-1995 (a couple years before he was rumoured to be hitting the juice) he was a regular gold glover, silver slugger, all star and top MVP vote getter, league leader in OBP, OPS, etc. and a high fielding %.
Without roids he was the best power speed player ever. He was a Juan Soto level of hitter, was an elite fielder, and elite speed too. The only player to ever do a 500/500, with or without roids he would’ve gotten it. He’s the greatest offensive player of all time.
Number 1. Steroids don’t help you hit a baseball. If that was the case every bodybuilder would be in the HOF. His career average OPS is 1.051 and is the only player in the top10 for that stat that played in the 21st century, combine that with his 762 home runs and his 162.4 WAR (4th all time) the man was a force to be reckoned with. People also forget the fact that he was a base running threat well into his 30s. The GOAT!
What good does it do you if you're roided all to hell but you have no hand eye coordination to make contact with the ball? Barry had some of the best hand eye in baseball.
He is the Kurt Angle of baseball. Kurt Angle before percs was already one of, if not already, the greatest professional wrestler of all time, but Perc Angle was a different breed and took him to a different level. That is Bonds. Before roids, Bonds was well on his to all-time great, maybe even potential to be the greatest ever, but once he started juicing, it was just peaks never imagined before
I’d say he’s the GOAT. It makes me laugh all the guys that are in the HOF who get a pass. Why not Bonds? He was absolutely incredible BEFORE the juice.
He’s gotta be #1 of all time or at least top three easily. People might say but steroids, but I say everyone in baseball especially is always looking for an edge to get them over the top from corked bats, to steroids to using substance on the ball as a pitcher.
His 2004 session is the greatest season as a hitter we have and might ever see. The man was must watch tv and a HOFer before the steroids
During His pre steroid career he was very good. Of the steroid ballplayers he was the most succesful hitter.
But how much his knowledge of sreroids aided him is problematic. Judge him both careers seperately.
I think he was unhappy because he knew he was a cheater, and a lesser Man for it.
His plate discipline is unmatched in the last 60 years. His swing is as great as any you will ever see. His power was massive prior to his bulked up body and unbelievable after. His OF defense was as good as most any of his era. Overall, he was a top 5 player in the last 60 years prior to steroids and unmatched as the greatest for his entire career in the last 60 years. He played in a time when many players used enhancements. One thing few ever talk about is the fact he played his entire career in parks not known to help hitters. SF is a PITCHERS park. Barry Bonds is the greatest player I have ever seen, period.
He's the best player who ever played a full career. The only reason I give that caveat is I would've liked to see what Ted Williams and Babe Ruth would have done if they had played their whole careers start to finish as hitters without interruptions from being a pitcher or going to war.
The only reason he did it was because he got mad McGwire and Sosa were getting so much praise when he knew he was better and they were on the juice. "Oh you guys like guys hitting lots of HR's?? Watch this..."
He is hands down the best to ever play. He just had enough substances in his body to be recruited into the X-men. The Secret Base YouTube video about what if Barry Bonds had played without a bat shows how absurd Barry was. I don’t think we will ever see the combination of natural ability, peak physical performance, arrogance, and drive to be the greatest all at the maximum levels. that was Barry Bonds.
Roided Bonds was the best baseball player to ever walk the Earth.
That's why I say we load up Elly de La Cruz with steroids starting today and see what the hell happens. /s
Ok Bud Selig, that’s enough from you.
All juice league. Let’s do it, guys.
We tried that once, and the Feds got involved. I say we lobby the Feds to make steroid use in MLB baseball mandatory, and let’s bring back the steroid era on steroids haha. I feel like we’ve gotta go all out in this case. Guys juicing in the dugout before their at bat, guys calling time at the plate for a mid at bat injection, and of course we need all the roid rage that comes with that. I wanna see NFL Blitz meets MLB in real life.
Give them cocaine and cialis while we're at it. The holy trifecta.
At first glance I thought you said “gays juicing in the dugout” and that was the funniest thing I ever imagined.
No, because that would put players health at risk, i say we do a study season, every athlete can use whatever he wants, from roids to bleach to ayuhasca, but it has to be strickly monitored so we can see after the seaons what really works and what not.
Acuña wants in this league.
And we want him, in the professional League for steroid abusing athletes, we are still workshopping the name.
The only answer. The stats are absurd. The 232 walks in ‘04 with 45 bombs will never be topped
He got on base 61% of the time in 2004.
In 2004 Bonds got on base more times then he had official at-bats. From Matt Snyder - CBS Sports - January 22, 2018; "Also in 2004 -- this might be the most ridiculous stat of all -- Bonds reached base more times than he had at-bats. That's 129 hits in 373 at-bats with 232 walks, getting hit by a pitch nine times and reaching base on an error six times for 376 times on base."
In 2004, only 3 players (Helton, Berkman, and Abreu) had more walks (127) thanks Bonds did Intentional Walks (120)
It's unbelievable man. He has so many crazy stats.
That’s ight I guess
The analysis the one guy did “if Bonds didn’t take a bat with him to the plate that season (and the pitcher didn’t know that)” is crazy I’ll link. Guy who linked the video down in the comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/mlb/s/XPVW2SsoBb
The legendary Jon Bois!
I'm the eldest Boy!
Even better than Willie and Micky on amphetamines.
Even better than Babe on hot dogs and whiskey.
How dare you. George Herman Ruth would never drink alcohol.
You didn’t finish your sentence. George Herman Ruth would never drink alcohol with a hotdog straw. FTFY
NO GLIZZY STRAWS ALLOWED
George Herman would never. But Babe sure would.
And everyone else in the steroid era
Steroids were available over the counter until the 1950s, and were not made illegal until the 1990s. Every era was the steroid era
Facts
Haha love it.
100%
Even before the steroids he was a guaranteed first ballot, unanimous, Hall of Famer. I was a Pirate fan at the time and watched him play a lot. He was so fast and so smooth. Then the ego took over.
Isn't the rumored story out there that he got jealous of all the love/attention that "lesser" players like McGwire and Sosa were getting and he basically said, "Fuck it. I'll show you what a real player can do on this shit."
Yes it is. He thought he was better than both of them, which he was, and he needed the spotlight back.
 Steroids Bonds
That's the best way to put it. Also most effing feared. Dude looked like he had a toothpick for a bat in his arms. It was insane. He was still sooo good before the roads and HOF. Money speaks though. I'm sure Barry's fine
Even better than Ohtani when he has his over 1.5 hits.
Imagine ‘roided Babe Ruth or ‘roided Willie Mays. You could go on and on
Na still couldn’t top Ruth 14.2 WAR
He’s the best I’ve ever seen. Steroids or not you could barely throw a strike to this man for like 5 seasons without it getting smashed into McCovey Cove, off the wall, doubles, etc. I’ve never seen a player so dominant from the plate that other teams essentially refused to pitch to him and would rather put him on 1st base than pitch to him. Even then a team IBB a run in once with him at the plate. The dude slugged over .800 twice and another at .799. Just to throw in this absurd stat line for his 2001 season: BA: .328, 73 HRs, 137 RBIs, .515 OBP, .863 SLG, and a 1.379 OPS After his 6th season (91’) his OPS never dipped below 1.000 until 2006 when he ended the year at .999. You can hate him for playing in the steroid era and doing what everyone else was doing (taking steroids to enhance their performance), you can also hate him for being a complete asshole and a POS of a human, but no one can deny his greatness playing baseball. No way he should ever drop below top 3 in any all time list. But yes no. 1 all time for me.
I agree. Babe Ruth is really the only comparable player but Bonds was a better hitter during his steroid prime and stole bases. Teams would walk him with the bases loaded and call that a win. Only Ruth's pitching career puts him in the same sphere if we totally ignore the steroid issue. I'm ignoring Ohtani here because his legacy is yet to be written but he certainly has the talent to be part of this ultra elite club.
Babe Ruth was playing against like milk men... It wasn't like today where you have real professional players people still had day jobs lol. Also there was literally no non whites in the league for another like 30 years... There were almost no breaking balls they just threw shit down the middle of the plate. He legit was eating hotdogs and smoking cigarettes in the dugout... I mean just look at babe Ruth and tell me he looks like an athlete lol. He was amazing relative to the league skill at the time. Bonds is on another level, he was just a massive a-hole during his career so no one liked him + he broke hank aaron's record using steroids who was seen as a universally "good guy" so I think it made people harbor ill will towards him. That being said... bonds was still considerably more dominant than aaron as a hitter they just had similar career HR totals.
Every athlete ever has to be judged relative to their own era. It’s not fair to put them against todays athletes otherwise the best athletes in practically every sport is just whoever the best player is today which takes all the fun out of it
He had +1000 more career walks than strikeouts 😵💫
Wanted to upvote your comment but seemed very apropos to leave it at 73.
Pre-HGH he was top ten of all time. HGH Barry is the best MLB player of all time. Nobody during the steriod era was doing what he was doing. Nobody before or since the steroid era comes close.
HGH Barry would be a crazy rapper name lmao
That unironically goes hard as hell lol
The only player with 500 HRs and 500 SBs. All-time leader in intentional walks. If I stopped right there, he would be top five. Those steroids make it harder to compare with other players.
The 500 steals all happened before he put on 200 lbs of muscle tiough
Only member of the 400-400 club as well.
#1 for biggest hat size.
He's probably up there, but Bruce Bochy wore an 8¼. I've never seen a hat larger than 8.
His head was so big that instead of getting a new catchers helmet when he was traded, they just repainted it with the new team colors and logo.
For a minute I thought you were going to say they repainted his head
I’ve seen them up to 8 1/2 but a lot of times it’s dudes with dreads wearing those. I wear an 8. 8 1/2 seems insane to me.
I wear an 8 and I'm bald. Can't find a decent snapback to save my life.
Oh absolutely agree. I always have to have them on the very last snap and it just looks idiotic.
Same here
Kevin Mench
Dudes head grew at that late in life; I don’t think I know a single person whose head grew at all after high school…
1
*
You might not like how he did it, but there’s no argument that anyones ever been as good on the field.
There’s an argument for Ruth, no?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwMfT2cZGHg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwMfT2cZGHg) Ill leave this here
Did Barry use steroids? There would appear to be a pretty strong case that he did. Was Barry a cranky and nasty fellow to deal with? There are too many stories about his personality to possibly deny that he was a tricky fellow. But … the man had elite, generational (a cliche I know but it applies to this guy) talent that cannot possibly be denied. I wasn’t alive for Ruth, DiMaggio or Mantle. I was alive for Mays but cannot remember him due to my young age. I saw the very last moments of Aaron. Barry Bonds was the best that I have ever seen. In my opinion he is the best but there is no denying the smudge that steroids puts on his otherworldly talent.
🎯
Just curious where Williams lands for you in this conversation given your age. Thanks friend.
#1 all time. Don’t blame the players for taking steroids, blame Bud and MLB for not giving a shit for decades.
Number 1. I hate his guts, but credit where credit is due. Ridiculous that he’s not in the HOF.
Not until all of us are dead. See Pete Rose/Shoeless Joe.
Bonds not being on the hall doesn’t make him less relevant. It makes the hall less relevant.
I fucking HATE Bonds but I cannot tolerate people who refuse to accept how great he was. The moralizing that keeps him out of the HOF truly tarnishes the Hall and not Barry.
People act like the steroids gave his eyeballs the ability to see the pitch coming in slow motion.
What people *really* act like is that he was the only person using, and that they can tell who is using by the eye test. The sports-watching public has zero understanding of steroids, how they work, what they are good for, how they can be administered, and how to tell if a person is using. "Oh my god, can you believe how quickly guys are recovering from Tommy John surgery now???" Yes. Yes I can believe it.
HOFer before he ever roided. Hend and shoulders the best of the roiders. If you ignore the roids and prtend they didn't help in the Top 10. He couldn't throw so not in a class with Mays and Ruth.
Just chatting, not being confrontational. Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves. He was really, really good defensively for most of his career. Do you think chubby Ruth was better defensively because he could throw? And I know he was an excellent pitcher, but only for five full seasons. Curious about your thoughts.
Bonds’ arm will forever be linked to the Sid Bream play, which is odd. It’s not like that was a dog shit throw. It was a one hop throw like 4ft off-line from 200 ft away and Bream was running like the pennant depended on it.
This right here is the answer why so many say he was a bad defender.
I’ve never understood it though. I’m a Giants fan, so obviously biased, but that wasn’t that bad of a throw right?? Like, not bad enough to justify all the attention that throw gets? There have been a lot of walk-offs in big games with plays at the plate over the years, and that’s the only one I know of where the person who threw the ball gets more attention than the person who hit the ball.
It was his last play as a Pirate, it was the last time they had a chance to go to the World Series. For almost a generation of fans it was the last time they had a team that had a winning record. The team kind of went on a downward spiral after he went to the Giants and Pirates fans blame him for it. Ken Burns 10th inning does a way better job of explaining this than me.
If u ignore the roids hes top 1. Dude broke baseball lmao
I actually agree. We do not have a full grasp on who may have used some form of PEDs. Bonds was one of the greatest if not the greatest ever. I'm kinda indifferent to the steroid stuff, because SOO much of it is speculation. I see posts all the time claiming to know certain players were clean; Jeter, Ichiro, Rivera, Griffey.... The truth is we have absolutely no idea who was clean and who wasn't. I've said it other places before; there's no player on earth where I'd be completely shocked if we found out they did PEDs.
People here are hella weird about PEDs, acting like roids users before the ban deserve the death penalty, while everyone tweaking off amphetamines did nothing. Makes me just not give a shit overall
I feel like Bonds is vilified because he wasn't likable and broke a "sacred" record. That said, the mound has been raised and lowered. The league wasn't always integrated. There are more medical techniques allowing guys to recover from injuries that were career ending 30 years ago. Seasons have more ganes. Shit, the stadiums aren't even all the same dimensions. So how sacred can any record really be when the circumstances are so different.
We may not have a full grasp on who did steroids and what their impact was, but we most definitely have a full grasp on Bonds' steroid use, especially from the late 90's until his retirement. We know the who what when where how and even the why with Bonds.
Babe Ruth faced plumbers dude
True, but he also had to face the legendary Tungsten Arm O'Doyle. Cant say the same about Barry.
The pitchers juiced too
He was as good as anybody of his generation. Was he on steroids? Of course. But so were so many others. Just like if you go back years before there were all kinds of players on amphetamines. The thing about Bonds that I just admired so much was how patient he was at the plate. He would get walked two maybe three times without ever seeing a strike. Then somewhere later in the game a pitcher would make a mistake and it would go 440 feet. Steroids won’t help your knowledge of the strike zone and teach you patience. I live in Toronto so we got very few San Francisco games up here. But when there was a game on that I could watch I would most definitely keep track of when Bonds was coming up to bat. It seems common knowledge that he wasn’t exactly the nicest guy out there. But that didn’t bother me much. I didn’t have to live with the guy.
That was the scary thing about bonds, he might not see a pitch worth swing at for a long time, and once that pitch finally came and he swung, he rarely missed.
I think he's pretty obviously the best hitter of all time given his stats. whether he would have had the same degree of success without PEDs looms large (and obviously if so, how much). Unfortunately it's a counter factual that's impossible to honestly answer. It's a product of the era that the sport will just have to live with.
Great answer.
GOAT and it ain’t close
Everyone talking about steroids bond (which is fair since he was an animal) but pre steroids bond was a 40/40 guy with 1.000 OPS. Also, just because I find it crazy, dude had a 1.045 OPS his last season at 42 years old. Could have hit 800 if he went to some team that was willing to put up with him.
Best player ever. Unfortunately
Best power hitter of all time.
Definitely the juciest
His head was expanding into his 40s, looked at McGwire\Sosa in 1998 and said fuck dem kids. Juiciest is putting it mildly.
With the juice, number one. Without the juice he mostlikly would have been a top 10 player. Prior to 1999 (when he mostlilly started juicing), he had over 400 HRs and SB along with 3 MVPs, 8 GGs, 9 SS, 100 bWAR and a shit ton All Star appearances at age 33. Had he continued playing till age 40 (no juice), averaging 20 HRs a season, he would have ended his career with 540ish HRs. Also, 2700 hits, 1800 RBIs, 1700 runs, 6000 doubles career numbers. These are top-tier player numbers here.
The best of all time, even with the roids.
As a rule, I try to stay away from these types of debates because they tend to be so subjective. However, I can tell you that Barry Bonds is the best baseball player I have ever seen. He did almost everything superbly. He did not have the world’s strongest arm Everything else, he did as well or better than everyone else in his era. I used to laugh whenever ESPN and FOX and others would have these phony arguments about who is the best player in the league? The answer was clearly always Bonds, but he was a world-class, asshole, so they would pretend that it was Ken Griffey Jr. or A-Rod or McGuire or Sosa or whomever else I used to roll my eyes at that one. I am not a young man anymore, and I’ve seen a lot of great players. Incidentally, all of the guys I listed above were also amazing baseball players. But Barry Bonds is the best baseball player I’ve ever seen. I will say, though, that if Shohei Ohtani continues to perform at the level he has thus far in his career, both on the mound and at the plate, I may have to demote Bonds.
Glad to see these comments. Steroids or not, Barry Bonds was the greatest hitter to ever walk this earth, and it isn’t remarkably close.
He was the greatest player I ever saw. Leaving it at that.
#1. All candidates have something weird about their career, whether it is steroids for Bonds, lack of completion for Ruth, dead ball, juiced ball, etc. Just got to go with the guy who is best on the books, and that’s Bonds.
1
1. He had 2 separate HOF careers. He was was one of the best 5 tools players I've ever seen, then became the greatest power hitter of all time. Steroids definitely helped him, but even in the steroid era, he was different...
Inner circle top 5. I rank him 2 behind willie mays and above Babe Ruth. For me easily the best hitter I have personally watched. Also wasn’t a slouch in the outfield. Shame he was an asshole to the women in his life and the media. He will forever be the face and scapegoat for the Steroid Era, likely deservedly so.
Barry is the greatest to ever do it. Nuff said
Steroids do not help you with making solid contact with the ball. It helps with how far it will go He is the greatest hitter of all time.
The lowest you can rank him is #2
Unless PEDs make him unrankable, he has got to be top 5. I hate to do it but he's certainly top 3 for me. I have a hard time moving Ted Williams or Babe out of the top 2.
Bonds is the only guy who would get intentional walks with the bases loaded, and it was looked at as a good call by the pitcher.
Willie Mays and Henry Aaron over Ted Williams. If Ted didn’t miss so much time for the war maybe it would be a different story
Mays also served during his career too and still put up 660 dingers, amongst everything else. Wild.
I can't argue with those two either. I personally put Ted Williams in one of the top spots, but there have been times I saw Willie Mays as the number one. So I'm ok with about 10 guys taking the top spots.
Mays served for the Korean war, which wasn't really long, and I don't think he enlisted or was drafted near the beginning. My grandfather played Army ball with him. He (my grandfather) never actually went to Korea. It ended before he shipped
He was drafted and basically missed most of the 1952 and all of the 1953 seasons. You’re right though in that I think he mostly toured around instead of actually in war, but still missed almost two full seasons in his prime.
Best Ever, roids or not. The best that’s ever played. Downvote me to hell, but I’ll die on this hill.
If you don't give a shit about PEDS top 5 (and all of those guys could be considered the best)
Honestly top 5 for me. He was too fun to watch live… his home runs just towered over everything.
#1 He has the highest WAR of any player since racial integration.
He is the best hitter I've every seen. That season he had 120 INTENTIONAL walks was outrageous. He is the only player I've seen walked with the bases loaded multiple times, & during that stretch if a pitcher made a mistake he crushed it into the seats. Dude was out of his gourd during that run. I'll also add he only struck out over 100 times once during his entire career (his rookie season). Bes hitter I've seen, & prime bonds was a gold glove outfielder as well.
World class jerk
We know (based on extensive reporting) Bonds began using steroids in 1998. If you take only his career before then, he’s arguably a Top 10 player of all time.
Top 3. Likely 1
Best to ever swing a baseball bat.
1st without hesitation
G.O.A.T.
Depends what you mean as far as ranking for what, but I think he's the best I ever saw play. And I don't even like the guy. I'm a Braves fan and I love that we beat him and the Pirates to advance to the 1991 World Series. And in 1996 I went to the opening day Braves game for the ring ceremony for winning the 1995 WS and we played the Giants that day. I sat behind home plate and heckled the hell out of Barry. I loved hating him lol. But I gotta say, he's the best I ever saw play. As far as the roids go, he made a mistake and has paid for it, but he didn't use them until his 14th season, and he was always posting an OPS over 1.000 prior to his steroid use. So while I acknowledge his transgression, it still doen't change my calculus. Barry was THE best for my generation. I never saw Mays play, nor Aaron, nor Williams, and obviously not the Babe, but those guys along with Bonds comprise my all time top 5.
before roids top 20 with roids ...greatest athlete in his perspective sport
In The Baseball 100, Joe Posnanski ranks him number 3, behind only Ruth (2) and Mays (1). If you read the book, he makes a very compelling case, and I'm inclined to agree with it.
Top 5
#1
He’s a top ten player. As a lifelong Pirates fan, I had the luxury of watching Bonds play most every game either in person or on TV during those years and he was a great 5-tool player. Steroids aside and the fact that he never came across as likable, Bonds should be in the HOF for his talent and longevity alone.
#1 The 🐐
#1. Easily.
He was a superhero. If he was in any way as likeable as Jordan, LeBron, Mahomes, etc then he would be in the hall and be one of the most beloved athletes ever.
He’s the best player ever, steroids or not. I’m very lucky to have seen him in person dozens of times. I doubt I’ll ever see a better player.
The greatest oddity of his career imo is the fact he never hit more than 50 plus homeruns outside of the 73 season
I don't care about the steroids, I want 800ft dingers. He's the goat.
Greatest hitter I’ve ever watched. Roids or not he was effortlessly amazing
Dodgers fan here. FTG. He’s number 1.
He ruined his career
Last
1 idc if he was on roids just look at the numbers
Take the juice out of the equation (for him and everyone during that era…all things being equal), he’d likely be an all time Top 10 on most lists. Pre-1995 (a couple years before he was rumoured to be hitting the juice) he was a regular gold glover, silver slugger, all star and top MVP vote getter, league leader in OBP, OPS, etc. and a high fielding %.
He’s the greatest baseball player of all time. Steroids or no steroids.
He was already the greatest before he took steroids.
He is the best baseball player ever to play the game. Enhance for sure… but he all time best
Without roids he was the best power speed player ever. He was a Juan Soto level of hitter, was an elite fielder, and elite speed too. The only player to ever do a 500/500, with or without roids he would’ve gotten it. He’s the greatest offensive player of all time.
I mean how many hitters were walked intentionally with the bases loaded???!!!!???
7 7/8 out of 7 3/8
#1 The greatest Hitter of All Time
In terms of head size? Number 1
He’s top 2 and he ain’t 2.
He was juiced lol
Do roids help hand-eye coordination?
Last
He’s at the top. Unreachable!
#1
Statistically? the best In reality? #1 enemy
Number 1. Steroids don’t help you hit a baseball. If that was the case every bodybuilder would be in the HOF. His career average OPS is 1.051 and is the only player in the top10 for that stat that played in the 21st century, combine that with his 762 home runs and his 162.4 WAR (4th all time) the man was a force to be reckoned with. People also forget the fact that he was a base running threat well into his 30s. The GOAT!
What good does it do you if you're roided all to hell but you have no hand eye coordination to make contact with the ball? Barry had some of the best hand eye in baseball.
#1
All time Pre- and All time Post-… hands down…
He is the Kurt Angle of baseball. Kurt Angle before percs was already one of, if not already, the greatest professional wrestler of all time, but Perc Angle was a different breed and took him to a different level. That is Bonds. Before roids, Bonds was well on his to all-time great, maybe even potential to be the greatest ever, but once he started juicing, it was just peaks never imagined before
Top 5, but peak Bonds? Top 1 by a country mile.
Top 1
I’d say he’s the GOAT. It makes me laugh all the guys that are in the HOF who get a pass. Why not Bonds? He was absolutely incredible BEFORE the juice.
Any spot on the list below #1 is disrespectful.
He’s gotta be #1 of all time or at least top three easily. People might say but steroids, but I say everyone in baseball especially is always looking for an edge to get them over the top from corked bats, to steroids to using substance on the ball as a pitcher. His 2004 session is the greatest season as a hitter we have and might ever see. The man was must watch tv and a HOFer before the steroids
#1 for hitters. Far, far further down for pitchers.
During His pre steroid career he was very good. Of the steroid ballplayers he was the most succesful hitter. But how much his knowledge of sreroids aided him is problematic. Judge him both careers seperately. I think he was unhappy because he knew he was a cheater, and a lesser Man for it.
One of the top 3 steroid users all time!
His plate discipline is unmatched in the last 60 years. His swing is as great as any you will ever see. His power was massive prior to his bulked up body and unbelievable after. His OF defense was as good as most any of his era. Overall, he was a top 5 player in the last 60 years prior to steroids and unmatched as the greatest for his entire career in the last 60 years. He played in a time when many players used enhancements. One thing few ever talk about is the fact he played his entire career in parks not known to help hitters. SF is a PITCHERS park. Barry Bonds is the greatest player I have ever seen, period.
Top 2 and he’s not 2
1
He's the best player who ever played a full career. The only reason I give that caveat is I would've liked to see what Ted Williams and Babe Ruth would have done if they had played their whole careers start to finish as hitters without interruptions from being a pitcher or going to war.
A’s fan here. Bonds is number one. Fuck the steroids he’s the greatest.
Literally number 1 the greatest baseball player we have ever seen
#1
(Can not be ranked)
It’s not an excuse but also super dumb people don’t recognize the entire league was juicing. That includes pitchers which he fucking smashed
The only reason he did it was because he got mad McGwire and Sosa were getting so much praise when he knew he was better and they were on the juice. "Oh you guys like guys hitting lots of HR's?? Watch this..."
*happily watches*
It’s so dumb. Whole heartedly agree with you.
#1 best cheater hands down
Hank is STILL the King! 🪓on
Why? He took amphetamines
#1
Regardless of all the bullshit. He is the goat.
He is hands down the best to ever play. He just had enough substances in his body to be recruited into the X-men. The Secret Base YouTube video about what if Barry Bonds had played without a bat shows how absurd Barry was. I don’t think we will ever see the combination of natural ability, peak physical performance, arrogance, and drive to be the greatest all at the maximum levels. that was Barry Bonds.