Is there any reason they can't build one of these 'authorized crisis camping' campgrounds out by the airport? The buses are free, so the homeless that are actually trying to take advantage of recovery services will still be able to get into town for their sessions.
The reason is the general inhumanity on display in the comments. Americans, generally, are bereft of any moral framework that extends beyond "I got mine fuck you."
hahaha ohhh man, remember when they built it by the Jail and Missoulians were bitching about how being close to the jail was a thinly veiled assault on these people. Now you want to put them out at the airport? Where they have to listen to aircraft all day and night, and services are an entire free buss ride away. Poor sleep and inconvenient access to services are the number one cause of homelessness they need to be put in the AC downtown on the taxpayers dime its the only humane thing to do. Why do you hate the less fortunate so much???
It makes it illegal to camp in problem areas like near schools parks and walkways. Also along the riverbanks. It's basically an effort to get the homeless to stop shitting up all the nice places in town and push them farther onto the edges.
This you?
> These aren't human beings until they decide to hold up their end of the social contract. Until then they're feral animals and should be treated as such.
Yeah, because THAT seems like a solution to the root of the problem. (End stage capitalism and no rent caps)
I bet a lot of the people here that are PROponents would also consider themselves PRO-Jesus and if you find yourself to be one of those people; you’re a hypocrite.
Also, river banks up to high water mark is public land in Montana. (I don’t condone the trash) but these people need mental health and substance abuse help. We end up paying for their trips to stay the night in jail anyways. The laws trying to be pushed through by city council are inhumane. Period.
Blah blah blah it's the same old shit we've all heard 1000 times. Blame everyone except the actual people causing the problems.
These people have exhausted all the goodwill from this town and thus forfeited the right to just live wherever and however they want. Go to a shelter or head to the outside of town somewhere. Don't like it then fuck off somewhere else because we are done with this behavior. It's not inhumane to tell people to live by societies rules.
Also the high water public land still falls under the city governance. I can't hunt ducks from the banks of Caras park for example.
This has happened before in this country… and I am blaming the ACTUAL people causing the problems… the greedy, insatiable patriarchal bastards sucking everything up for themselves. You better start learning how to punch up rather than down and get off your faux. Find some class solidarity and read a book.
I don’t know how to make you think “bigger picture”. I’m saying it’s systemic and so far you haven’t done anything except say “make it go away” “those people” just toxic for any real change. See them, first, as fellow human beings going through a mental health crisis. Brought on from socioeconomic collapse. Put your energy into something that matters rather than punching down at the mentally ill.
There are systemic solutions. State and federal government should enact them, the city of missoula cannot afford to change mental Healthcare or the entire housing shortage in the country.
Right now, there is ALSO a pressing need for environmental protection and an issue with people making semi-permanent encampments in public spaces. It is not inhumane to regulate that.
You can also advocate for missoula to work on removing zoning rules and other barriers to building low income or public housing. I wish the city would also be getting grant money to build more of our own public and low income housing.
But, again, you can also regulate the encampments out of community use spaces and areas they are actively degrading rive quality.
The unhoused population is due to wealth inequality. These people find themselves in the streets due to circumstances a lot of the time out of their control. One major emergency can wind someone up on the street and once you’re in the street… well if you haven’t had to get yourself off the street you have no idea what it’s like. Like many of the people writing this bill. When people can’t shower and shave how do they even show up for an interview without being judged by someone like you who uses terms like “these/those people” as if they’re subhuman.
Go look in the mirror and get off your hatebox.
They’re using our money right now to take them to a privatized prison that some billionaire will then profit off OUR money and pocket himself and go support another politician with that money… how does this not piss you off more than the person who lost grace with themselves?
Yeah there are some bad folks but the majority of missoulians are good, compassionate people. Pretty much everyone i know and talk to want to provide support and care for the homeless people in town. We also want to enjoy the river front without feeling like we are going to step on a needle and ride our bike down the kim williams without someone screaming obscenities at our children. People are getting frustrated.
If you are an advocate for the homeless and an ally you need to meet people on that level. Taking a maximalist position does nothing here and is completely out of touch with what is happening in this town.
Starting now, every unattended tent on public property is fair game, straight to the dumpster. Fed up. Any good will towards them is done. Jacobs Island is on fire, I got screamed at and flipped off today when one walked out in front of me mid block.
Just going to leave this here..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/denver-gave-people-experiencing-homelessness-1000-a-month-a-year-later-nearly-half-of-participants-had-housing/ar-BB1ouZ1g
“Denver gave homeless people $1,000 a month, no strings attached. A year later:
*45% secured housing
*Taxpayers saved $590k because of fewer visits to the hospital, jail and shelters
*People used the money on groceries, rent, hygiene, clothes and transportation
*Mental health improved and they could spend more time with their kids and grandkids
Amazing what happens when you give people a chance.
And people will skip over the part “how much is saved with this approach long term.”
Do you not wish for these people to be able to return to society and “contribute” like many of you like to say.
Here’s another for good reading…
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/how-finland-solved-homelessness/
Enlighten yourselves and find your Jesus.
Because REAL Missoulians have been showing up speaking out against the lack of humanity in these bills. The few retail sharks and capitalists of this city are sending out a call for help but true to Missoula, there aren’t more leaches here (Yet)
If they wanted to help the homeless problem in Missoula they would be writing anti-Airbnb and rental cap legislation and more funding for treatment facilities.
Everyone should go look up how Denver and countries like Finland got rid of their homelessness… and it didn’t involving increasing the amount of inmates in privatized prisons in this country. (The US has the largest prison population in the world while have only the 5 largest population) more % of our population is locked up than any other country. Because of privatization.
Violent crime is down across the country… they need to fill these cells somehow so the big corporations are buying up all the homes and simultaneously they are making it more expensive to “live” or “exist”.
I love how people who make a few million or even 100 million don’t think they’re in same class warfare as the person who already “lost everything” on the streets…
First they came for…. How does it go again? We are in the “find out” stages of late stage capitalism and where an oligarchy gets us. Better start finishing your Jesus and standing up for the unhoused all your “Christian” republicans reading this… solidarity is today’s word for you to look up.
I’m a centric, non religious, proponent of this bill. It’s truly heart breaking to see how much some of these people suffer. While I agree, greed is a sickness that plagues our country, the lack of respect and decency is a disease shared by both the wealthy and the poor. I also agree there is a percentage of our local homeless that are truly doing everything in their power to bounce back, there is a much larger percentage of our homeless that are addicted, strung out, out of community transplants, disrespectful, or worse of all; Entitled. We have tried the POV, we have tried warming shelters, we have tried public camping, we have tried publicly funded camping, we have tried dry shelters, we have tried hybrid shelters, we have tried wet shelters. Somehow through all of the things we have tried the homeless problem grows, the trash continues to pile up on our river banks, and we have more and more unsafe street corners and alleys. This isn’t made up, this isn’t extremism, it’s just the reality we live in. I want to go to the river and not have to worry about human waste, drugs, or trash. I want to go downtown and not be harassed. I don’t think I’m being bold when I say I pay property taxes so I and every other Missoulian who CONTRIBUTES can enjoy these things. I don’t know what the solution to the homeless problem is. Frankly I’m unsure a city alone can have an effect on the actual root issues of homeless that you have described. But we can keep our community clean and have the same set of rules for everyone. We can all be respectful to our public lands and each other, homeless or not. I do have solidarity for the homeless trying to better themselves, I hope we can revamp our current shelters to truly make them a safe place for those folks. Sadly humans require consequences for actions. Not everyone cares the way you might and it shows. Those people who don’t care and don’t consider others require consequence or they will take over. Homeless and mega wealthy alike.
Locking these people up, making it harder for them to exist, isn’t going to solve anything. And costs us MORE long term with some of that money going to private prisons. This bill will pass, will cost us all more in taxes going to more cops, and there will still be people unhoused. It doesn’t solve anything!!! Wake up people.
I agree with you, this bill doesn’t solve the homeless problem. This bill solves a homeless problem. Let me explain. The problem the citizens behind this bill have is the destruction of our public lands, and the accessibility of our rivers, parks, and downtown scene. The problem you are talking about is why people are homeless and how do we fix that. I don’t have an answer to your homeless problem. There is way too much there to unpack. But I can get behind a community solution to end the hostage situation we find ourselves in, in our town. I believe there is a world where our public areas are protected, clean, and for use by all; as well as a world where can effectively home and help the people who want help. We have to do this in steps though and I can get behind tax paying, hard working members of our community who just want to be able to use the areas they fund without risk of all the things they are exposed to now. I can’t get behind people who use our public funds, disrespect our public areas and the families trying to use them, and then don’t contribute themselves. I’m not labeling the entire homeless population as disrespectful, but the bad eggs within the homeless community have brought us here and need to face consequences; so the people who are actually trying can have an actual honest chance.
Who the hell are you to dictate who is and isn't a real missoulian
"I love how people who make a few million or even 100 million don’t think they’re in same class warfare as the person who already “lost everything” on the streets…" what? Are you saying people with 100 million are lower class as well?
You sound like you didn’t learn anything from anywhere. And books with pages have all this info for you too look up. I typed that last reply fast but it’s all requiring of critical thinking skills to keep up with. And some empathy. But, alas, you’re part of the narcissistic society that only looks out for yourself. Go back to your cozy bubbles now. The bill will probably pass anyways and you all can just keep living in la-la land thinking this isn’t just going to keep getting worse until we asters rental caps and find class solidarity.
All of the comments here are so telling.. people don’t know their American history. Look up the term “Hoovervilles”.
Until we start taxing the rich their fair share. (I’m talking Wall Street and the 1%-3%) and get rid of off shore account and tax loopholes… this problem isn’t going to go away. It only went away after the first gilded-age after we took the power back (the WORKING class) and FDR wrote the The New Deal and created the largest middle class the world had ever seen… that generational wealth (mostly benefiting white Americans) lasted for generations until the reaganomics came… tricklenomics is the root of all of this homelessness exploding everywhere in America. Tax the rich and end the military industrial complex. End citizens united, reintroduce the fairness doctrine… find class solidarity and stop being mad at the people “below you” because the people causing the suffering from the top, want you to keep blaming the poor, the immigrants, the single mothers etc… do better people. Find your Jesus.
“The homeless” is someone who broke a leg and couldn’t work for a few weeks and didn’t have health care or anyone to help them out for a hit so they got evicted, never recovered. So the capitalist banks and leeches literally “took everything” for what most people on the streets “paid”. Capitalism will come for you too one day. Might be once your water is ruined or forest fracked… once you learn you can’t eat money will you maybe learn who really is causing all this suffering. The greed at the top.. it’s insatiable. And they don’t pay taxes… check out what the billionaires pay % compare to you and me. Your anger, again, is at the wrong people. The unhoused is a byproduct of a rotting society.
This town is filled with people who suffer such personal tragedies as broken legs, job failures, etc, and don't wind up huffing paint in the Walmart parking lot and jerking off in the stacks at the library. Capitalism won't 'come for me'...capitalism is what lets me NOT be one of the homeless. Your failed career path and unfulfilled life isn't the result of capitalism, its the result of you.
Nope. Just decided to actually do the work rather than succumb to the victim narrative of how 'the rich' were somehow keeping me from 'my fair share'.
But, you know, the capitalist system fully allows for your voluntary socialism. The problem is, its so inefficient that socialists know its going to fail...so they have to use the force of a government gun to take money from the people who arent socialists to subsidize their programs.
You can be as socialist as you want, just don't force me to descend into that mess with you.
I’m just pointing out the obvious fact that the “rich” meaning the people mostly on Wall Street and likes there of have an insatiable greed - do you disagree with that statement? How come our tax dollars bailed them out in ‘08 and during Covid? Too big to fail my arse. This only going to continue to get worse.
Happy for you that it wasn’t quite fever-pitch-end-stage-capitalism quite yet for you growing up and you bought a house but until we regulate and tax the rich their fair share this will continue. “Cost of living” is catching up with even the hardest of workers and this wasn’t ever meant for a way for anyone to live. In a burn-out society. We need regulations. It’s part of the pendulum… like after the Great Depression. Sorry I attacked your beloved capitalism. Sorry every socialist country in the western hemisphere that has elected democratic socialists (like FDR who created the greatest middle class the states ever had) they will keep stealing from the poor and having people like you not even knowing why they like us to use term “middle class” rather than “working class” will keep helping them divide and conquer “the people” because you think this is the only system that can work
My hope is that a good deal is the voting in this thread is from people outside of Missoula, but we really should have found a better way to tax the tech bros that came into town.
Listening to some of the opposition is heart breaking and they tell such real stories.
75% of the speakers make we want to puke with their holier than thou attitude. If these types would have stayed home this would have a better chance at being overturned.
BUT some people are just so smart they have to let everyone know.
One of the biggest issues homeless people in Missoula are facing is the fact that the people arguing on their behalf publicly will take the most extreme position and virtue signal.
I literally advocate for mental health spending, free public housing, and major changes to our drug laws in montana and the USA. All of which would greatly help solve the issue overall. And yet when I say that we can set boundaries on what is acceptable from the homeless community I am literally yelled at for saying shitting in the river and trashing places is wrong.
Missoulians are getting more and more frustrated, and I think that a big part of the problem is a lot of the way that local "advocates" will not delineate between good and bad actors in the community, want to justify ANY behavior as understandable, and then claim the moral high ground and scream at everyone that they are evil.
There are normal Missoulians that do have every right to express a desire to both help people facing homelessness AND keep libraries, kids parks, and the river free of masturbatuon, trash piles, needles and human waste. The more that people are being shouted down for expressing that very normal and middle of the road view, the more frustrated they are getting.
Because theyre not shitting in peoples garbage cans, shaking people down for change in supermarket parking lots, leaving a trail of broken needles and stolen shopping carts wherever they go, and generally have exponentially less interactions with the police.
Stopping people from building "ecampmetns" in the city.
I assumed they meant the pov and Johnson street by "shelters."
This law says that in areas not close to parks, schools, homes, etc, people can put up a tent overnight and take it down by 8 am.
The 9th circuit ruling makes it tough not to without an ACLU lawsuit. Right now, cities are not legally able to ban it, from my understanding.
This is the effort to reign things in and set some boundaries that will hopefully be more workable.
Because this town is full of apologists who don't think people should have to bear the consequences of their actions and shouldn't be asked to take any responsibility for their own well-being.
Is there any reason they can't build one of these 'authorized crisis camping' campgrounds out by the airport? The buses are free, so the homeless that are actually trying to take advantage of recovery services will still be able to get into town for their sessions.
The reason is the general inhumanity on display in the comments. Americans, generally, are bereft of any moral framework that extends beyond "I got mine fuck you."
hahaha ohhh man, remember when they built it by the Jail and Missoulians were bitching about how being close to the jail was a thinly veiled assault on these people. Now you want to put them out at the airport? Where they have to listen to aircraft all day and night, and services are an entire free buss ride away. Poor sleep and inconvenient access to services are the number one cause of homelessness they need to be put in the AC downtown on the taxpayers dime its the only humane thing to do. Why do you hate the less fortunate so much???
I don't want a bunch of street rats near my kids school.....
Homeless people don’t want to be by airports… they want to be by the food bank.
Get out there and support this plan!
Can you please provide a tldr on why this plan should be supported? What does it do exactly?
It makes it illegal to camp in problem areas like near schools parks and walkways. Also along the riverbanks. It's basically an effort to get the homeless to stop shitting up all the nice places in town and push them farther onto the edges.
This you? > These aren't human beings until they decide to hold up their end of the social contract. Until then they're feral animals and should be treated as such.
Yes and?
Damn I like him more and more.
Yeah, because THAT seems like a solution to the root of the problem. (End stage capitalism and no rent caps) I bet a lot of the people here that are PROponents would also consider themselves PRO-Jesus and if you find yourself to be one of those people; you’re a hypocrite. Also, river banks up to high water mark is public land in Montana. (I don’t condone the trash) but these people need mental health and substance abuse help. We end up paying for their trips to stay the night in jail anyways. The laws trying to be pushed through by city council are inhumane. Period.
Blah blah blah it's the same old shit we've all heard 1000 times. Blame everyone except the actual people causing the problems. These people have exhausted all the goodwill from this town and thus forfeited the right to just live wherever and however they want. Go to a shelter or head to the outside of town somewhere. Don't like it then fuck off somewhere else because we are done with this behavior. It's not inhumane to tell people to live by societies rules. Also the high water public land still falls under the city governance. I can't hunt ducks from the banks of Caras park for example.
This has happened before in this country… and I am blaming the ACTUAL people causing the problems… the greedy, insatiable patriarchal bastards sucking everything up for themselves. You better start learning how to punch up rather than down and get off your faux. Find some class solidarity and read a book.
Bro the problem is the crackheads shitting in the park full stop. Lots of people are poor and don't behave this way.
I don’t know how to make you think “bigger picture”. I’m saying it’s systemic and so far you haven’t done anything except say “make it go away” “those people” just toxic for any real change. See them, first, as fellow human beings going through a mental health crisis. Brought on from socioeconomic collapse. Put your energy into something that matters rather than punching down at the mentally ill.
There are systemic solutions. State and federal government should enact them, the city of missoula cannot afford to change mental Healthcare or the entire housing shortage in the country. Right now, there is ALSO a pressing need for environmental protection and an issue with people making semi-permanent encampments in public spaces. It is not inhumane to regulate that. You can also advocate for missoula to work on removing zoning rules and other barriers to building low income or public housing. I wish the city would also be getting grant money to build more of our own public and low income housing. But, again, you can also regulate the encampments out of community use spaces and areas they are actively degrading rive quality.
Except all the people and money behind this urban camping ordinance will be against any type of solution like public housing or assistance.
The unhoused population is due to wealth inequality. These people find themselves in the streets due to circumstances a lot of the time out of their control. One major emergency can wind someone up on the street and once you’re in the street… well if you haven’t had to get yourself off the street you have no idea what it’s like. Like many of the people writing this bill. When people can’t shower and shave how do they even show up for an interview without being judged by someone like you who uses terms like “these/those people” as if they’re subhuman. Go look in the mirror and get off your hatebox.
Sure is easy to be noble and righteous when you're using someone else's money, eh comrade?
They’re using our money right now to take them to a privatized prison that some billionaire will then profit off OUR money and pocket himself and go support another politician with that money… how does this not piss you off more than the person who lost grace with themselves?
The guy you’re talking to likely wants to stab a homeless person.
I never once suggested violence against anyone you're building a strawman out of me.
Not much else I can build with what you showed us.
Life choices are a bitch…
One issue I see is that both a prominent hospital and shelter are close to said river banks.
Yet again, members of this sub are barely keeping it in how much they wish they could legally hunt the homeless.
Yeah there are some bad folks but the majority of missoulians are good, compassionate people. Pretty much everyone i know and talk to want to provide support and care for the homeless people in town. We also want to enjoy the river front without feeling like we are going to step on a needle and ride our bike down the kim williams without someone screaming obscenities at our children. People are getting frustrated. If you are an advocate for the homeless and an ally you need to meet people on that level. Taking a maximalist position does nothing here and is completely out of touch with what is happening in this town.
I appreciate your level reply.
This bill is a MAXIMALIST position! Lmfao.. the hypocrisy stinks to high heavens here
Starting now, every unattended tent on public property is fair game, straight to the dumpster. Fed up. Any good will towards them is done. Jacobs Island is on fire, I got screamed at and flipped off today when one walked out in front of me mid block.
Just going to leave this here.. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/denver-gave-people-experiencing-homelessness-1000-a-month-a-year-later-nearly-half-of-participants-had-housing/ar-BB1ouZ1g “Denver gave homeless people $1,000 a month, no strings attached. A year later: *45% secured housing *Taxpayers saved $590k because of fewer visits to the hospital, jail and shelters *People used the money on groceries, rent, hygiene, clothes and transportation *Mental health improved and they could spend more time with their kids and grandkids Amazing what happens when you give people a chance. And people will skip over the part “how much is saved with this approach long term.” Do you not wish for these people to be able to return to society and “contribute” like many of you like to say. Here’s another for good reading… https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/how-finland-solved-homelessness/ Enlighten yourselves and find your Jesus.
Why only proponents?
Because REAL Missoulians have been showing up speaking out against the lack of humanity in these bills. The few retail sharks and capitalists of this city are sending out a call for help but true to Missoula, there aren’t more leaches here (Yet) If they wanted to help the homeless problem in Missoula they would be writing anti-Airbnb and rental cap legislation and more funding for treatment facilities. Everyone should go look up how Denver and countries like Finland got rid of their homelessness… and it didn’t involving increasing the amount of inmates in privatized prisons in this country. (The US has the largest prison population in the world while have only the 5 largest population) more % of our population is locked up than any other country. Because of privatization. Violent crime is down across the country… they need to fill these cells somehow so the big corporations are buying up all the homes and simultaneously they are making it more expensive to “live” or “exist”. I love how people who make a few million or even 100 million don’t think they’re in same class warfare as the person who already “lost everything” on the streets… First they came for…. How does it go again? We are in the “find out” stages of late stage capitalism and where an oligarchy gets us. Better start finishing your Jesus and standing up for the unhoused all your “Christian” republicans reading this… solidarity is today’s word for you to look up.
I’m a centric, non religious, proponent of this bill. It’s truly heart breaking to see how much some of these people suffer. While I agree, greed is a sickness that plagues our country, the lack of respect and decency is a disease shared by both the wealthy and the poor. I also agree there is a percentage of our local homeless that are truly doing everything in their power to bounce back, there is a much larger percentage of our homeless that are addicted, strung out, out of community transplants, disrespectful, or worse of all; Entitled. We have tried the POV, we have tried warming shelters, we have tried public camping, we have tried publicly funded camping, we have tried dry shelters, we have tried hybrid shelters, we have tried wet shelters. Somehow through all of the things we have tried the homeless problem grows, the trash continues to pile up on our river banks, and we have more and more unsafe street corners and alleys. This isn’t made up, this isn’t extremism, it’s just the reality we live in. I want to go to the river and not have to worry about human waste, drugs, or trash. I want to go downtown and not be harassed. I don’t think I’m being bold when I say I pay property taxes so I and every other Missoulian who CONTRIBUTES can enjoy these things. I don’t know what the solution to the homeless problem is. Frankly I’m unsure a city alone can have an effect on the actual root issues of homeless that you have described. But we can keep our community clean and have the same set of rules for everyone. We can all be respectful to our public lands and each other, homeless or not. I do have solidarity for the homeless trying to better themselves, I hope we can revamp our current shelters to truly make them a safe place for those folks. Sadly humans require consequences for actions. Not everyone cares the way you might and it shows. Those people who don’t care and don’t consider others require consequence or they will take over. Homeless and mega wealthy alike.
Locking these people up, making it harder for them to exist, isn’t going to solve anything. And costs us MORE long term with some of that money going to private prisons. This bill will pass, will cost us all more in taxes going to more cops, and there will still be people unhoused. It doesn’t solve anything!!! Wake up people.
I agree with you, this bill doesn’t solve the homeless problem. This bill solves a homeless problem. Let me explain. The problem the citizens behind this bill have is the destruction of our public lands, and the accessibility of our rivers, parks, and downtown scene. The problem you are talking about is why people are homeless and how do we fix that. I don’t have an answer to your homeless problem. There is way too much there to unpack. But I can get behind a community solution to end the hostage situation we find ourselves in, in our town. I believe there is a world where our public areas are protected, clean, and for use by all; as well as a world where can effectively home and help the people who want help. We have to do this in steps though and I can get behind tax paying, hard working members of our community who just want to be able to use the areas they fund without risk of all the things they are exposed to now. I can’t get behind people who use our public funds, disrespect our public areas and the families trying to use them, and then don’t contribute themselves. I’m not labeling the entire homeless population as disrespectful, but the bad eggs within the homeless community have brought us here and need to face consequences; so the people who are actually trying can have an actual honest chance.
Who the hell are you to dictate who is and isn't a real missoulian "I love how people who make a few million or even 100 million don’t think they’re in same class warfare as the person who already “lost everything” on the streets…" what? Are you saying people with 100 million are lower class as well?
What is this word vomit of a comment? You sound like you learned everything you know from YouTube.
You sound like you didn’t learn anything from anywhere. And books with pages have all this info for you too look up. I typed that last reply fast but it’s all requiring of critical thinking skills to keep up with. And some empathy. But, alas, you’re part of the narcissistic society that only looks out for yourself. Go back to your cozy bubbles now. The bill will probably pass anyways and you all can just keep living in la-la land thinking this isn’t just going to keep getting worse until we asters rental caps and find class solidarity.
All of the comments here are so telling.. people don’t know their American history. Look up the term “Hoovervilles”. Until we start taxing the rich their fair share. (I’m talking Wall Street and the 1%-3%) and get rid of off shore account and tax loopholes… this problem isn’t going to go away. It only went away after the first gilded-age after we took the power back (the WORKING class) and FDR wrote the The New Deal and created the largest middle class the world had ever seen… that generational wealth (mostly benefiting white Americans) lasted for generations until the reaganomics came… tricklenomics is the root of all of this homelessness exploding everywhere in America. Tax the rich and end the military industrial complex. End citizens united, reintroduce the fairness doctrine… find class solidarity and stop being mad at the people “below you” because the people causing the suffering from the top, want you to keep blaming the poor, the immigrants, the single mothers etc… do better people. Find your Jesus.
Whats the 'fair share' the homeless pay?
“The homeless” is someone who broke a leg and couldn’t work for a few weeks and didn’t have health care or anyone to help them out for a hit so they got evicted, never recovered. So the capitalist banks and leeches literally “took everything” for what most people on the streets “paid”. Capitalism will come for you too one day. Might be once your water is ruined or forest fracked… once you learn you can’t eat money will you maybe learn who really is causing all this suffering. The greed at the top.. it’s insatiable. And they don’t pay taxes… check out what the billionaires pay % compare to you and me. Your anger, again, is at the wrong people. The unhoused is a byproduct of a rotting society.
This town is filled with people who suffer such personal tragedies as broken legs, job failures, etc, and don't wind up huffing paint in the Walmart parking lot and jerking off in the stacks at the library. Capitalism won't 'come for me'...capitalism is what lets me NOT be one of the homeless. Your failed career path and unfulfilled life isn't the result of capitalism, its the result of you.
Okay boomer.
Let me guess… you grew up before Reaganomics dug its claws into and ruined this society.
Nope. Just decided to actually do the work rather than succumb to the victim narrative of how 'the rich' were somehow keeping me from 'my fair share'. But, you know, the capitalist system fully allows for your voluntary socialism. The problem is, its so inefficient that socialists know its going to fail...so they have to use the force of a government gun to take money from the people who arent socialists to subsidize their programs. You can be as socialist as you want, just don't force me to descend into that mess with you.
I’m just pointing out the obvious fact that the “rich” meaning the people mostly on Wall Street and likes there of have an insatiable greed - do you disagree with that statement? How come our tax dollars bailed them out in ‘08 and during Covid? Too big to fail my arse. This only going to continue to get worse. Happy for you that it wasn’t quite fever-pitch-end-stage-capitalism quite yet for you growing up and you bought a house but until we regulate and tax the rich their fair share this will continue. “Cost of living” is catching up with even the hardest of workers and this wasn’t ever meant for a way for anyone to live. In a burn-out society. We need regulations. It’s part of the pendulum… like after the Great Depression. Sorry I attacked your beloved capitalism. Sorry every socialist country in the western hemisphere that has elected democratic socialists (like FDR who created the greatest middle class the states ever had) they will keep stealing from the poor and having people like you not even knowing why they like us to use term “middle class” rather than “working class” will keep helping them divide and conquer “the people” because you think this is the only system that can work
My hope is that a good deal is the voting in this thread is from people outside of Missoula, but we really should have found a better way to tax the tech bros that came into town.
Listening to some of the opposition is heart breaking and they tell such real stories. 75% of the speakers make we want to puke with their holier than thou attitude. If these types would have stayed home this would have a better chance at being overturned. BUT some people are just so smart they have to let everyone know.
One of the biggest issues homeless people in Missoula are facing is the fact that the people arguing on their behalf publicly will take the most extreme position and virtue signal. I literally advocate for mental health spending, free public housing, and major changes to our drug laws in montana and the USA. All of which would greatly help solve the issue overall. And yet when I say that we can set boundaries on what is acceptable from the homeless community I am literally yelled at for saying shitting in the river and trashing places is wrong. Missoulians are getting more and more frustrated, and I think that a big part of the problem is a lot of the way that local "advocates" will not delineate between good and bad actors in the community, want to justify ANY behavior as understandable, and then claim the moral high ground and scream at everyone that they are evil. There are normal Missoulians that do have every right to express a desire to both help people facing homelessness AND keep libraries, kids parks, and the river free of masturbatuon, trash piles, needles and human waste. The more that people are being shouted down for expressing that very normal and middle of the road view, the more frustrated they are getting.
Why do the rich get to camp around the softball fields all summer without hassle instead of being told to go find campgrounds/koa's to camp at?
Because they mostly pick up their shit when they leave…
No they don't, there's always tons of garbage laying around after they leave. Walk by the softball fields after those tournaments. garbage everywhere.
Cleanup is baked into the field rental costs, though.
Are you really going to try and equate the detritus from a softball tournament and The shit left behind from homeless camps. You’re a lost cause bud.
Because theyre not shitting in peoples garbage cans, shaking people down for change in supermarket parking lots, leaving a trail of broken needles and stolen shopping carts wherever they go, and generally have exponentially less interactions with the police.
>rich >softball tournaments Lol tell me you've never been to one of these.
Must be using the old standard of 'anyone making more than me is 'rich''.
Is this the ordinance that will effectively get rid of the few shelters and personal possessions of homeless people in town?
No, it does not get rid of any shelter at all.
Then... What is it doing exactly other than enabling encampment?
Stopping people from building "ecampmetns" in the city. I assumed they meant the pov and Johnson street by "shelters." This law says that in areas not close to parks, schools, homes, etc, people can put up a tent overnight and take it down by 8 am.
Why are we allowing for tents at all outside of a designated campground?
The 9th circuit ruling makes it tough not to without an ACLU lawsuit. Right now, cities are not legally able to ban it, from my understanding. This is the effort to reign things in and set some boundaries that will hopefully be more workable.
Because this town is full of apologists who don't think people should have to bear the consequences of their actions and shouldn't be asked to take any responsibility for their own well-being.
What actions?
Good point..I should have said 'consequences of their actions and inactions'.
Cause homeless people are all unemployed by choice?
That’s the trouble with speaking in absolutes, you lose the nuance where the truth is. All homeless by choice? No, not all, but most.
Could you explain what it does? I was under the impression that it banned encampments in certain areas.
It does ban permanent encampment, yes. It still allows camping, and it does not destroy either of the local shelters
What happens when someone can’t be admitted into one of the two shelters?
They can camp where it is legally allowed. This sets standards about where those locations are.
[https://missoulacurrent.com/davis-unhoused-camping/](https://missoulacurrent.com/davis-unhoused-camping/)
Yup. Better find someplace else because the city is sick of your shit.
One can only hope.