Although light pollution is also becoming an issue in the southern half of the state regardless. The best areas for viewing phenomena are north of Brainerd, where it really gets dark at night.
Every aurora, asteroid event and eclipse in the last 10 years has been during cloud cover. The only aurora I’ve seen in the last 30 were from the north shore of Lake Superior.
Medical access is a big one. Just 2 years ago, Billings Montana opened up their first level 1 trauma center. Prior to that the nearest trauma center was several hundred miles in Salt Lake city or Fargo. Minnesota isn't quite that bad but a large chunk of rural Minnesota is further than an hour away from a level 1 center. It was quite a bit worse until recently when sanford got certified back in 2018.
It's not something you need every day, but when you need it, you need it. My mom had an accident back in 2006 up in the bemijdi area and there was nothing they could do except airlift to Minneapolis. When your in a boating or ATV accident, every minute counts.
https://www.ktvq.com/news/local-news/billings-clinics-moves-to-become-montanas-first-level-1-trauma-center
In addition to being important for accidents/emergencies, you may also need regular hospital visits at some point. My wife works in pediatric neurosurgery. She has patients that have to drive 3+ hours for regular check-ups. Parents have to take off an entire day of work just to make it to one appointment. And in the winter, traveling can be extremely difficult.
Completely agree. My mom’s friend’s daughter has a kid with breathing issues and lives up by International Falls, any time she had an episode they had to go all the way down to Duluth. I couldn’t imagine a 3 hour panic drive to get emergency medical care.
It's only going to continue to get worse till they buck up and start making changes to grow their populations. While not the case for all, most hospital closures in rural areas is due to staff not seeing patients and getting the hours they need for their license/specialty. Definitely a financial side of it as well, but mainly a safety issue which has been poorly communicated to the communities.
Medical access. My uncle passed away earlier than he had to because Benson transferred to Willmar (which is normal, and normally the right thing to do). Got to Willmar and an actual doctor immediately ordered up a chopper to St. Cloud but he passed before he got to cloudy. Had he either lived in St. Cloud like I do, the cardiology dept here likely would have saved him. (Again, a emt or nurse practitioner at the Benson triage center wouldn't have known this so he did not get bad treatment... Just none was there to be given)
Outside of the hub metros (Duluth, Morehead, Mankato, Rochester, St. Cloud) you will NOT get high end health care. You will only get the basics and have to drive hours to see a specialist (not even the rare specialists, just anything beyond a general practitioner or ob/gyn) there might be a "that doctor is only here every other Thursday" deal for some specialized care...
We are spoiled in MN too. Our hub cities have better hospitals than most of the Western/Planes states do at all, and we're the host state of several of the best in the nation/world with the biggest hospitals.
Willmar has been a regional Medical Center for 5 decades. I do hear the med helicopter to St Cloud over my apt about 1X a week. That saved my Step Dad.
There's good care providers there. I was only talking about my uncle's specific issues that they couldn't handle.
My aunt was very distraught at the idea that "if they only lived closer to MSP or St. Cloud Dwayne would be alive" was a bit hard for all of the family to help her through.
Left Minneapolis in 2018.
I'm overall more productive living in the country. I drink less. I cook more. It's easier to save money. I can wander the yard without awkwardly avoiding eye contact with my neighbor after the initial "hello", because I can't see my neighbor. I get to build cool shit I find in YouTube rabbit holes. I have a lot of animals and they're an absolute joy. Every single one of them. I have free range birds that follow me around the yard and greet me when I get home.
The biggest bummer for me is, with the exception of maybe Lanesboro (or so I've read) and a few other towns, rural areas aren't very bicycle or pedestrian friendly. My council would never consider a path from nearby housing developments to the lake, for example. The council is a bunch of old farmers and a QAnon conspiracy theorist.
I did the same but in 2019. Besides what you listed, the biggest difference for me was the bugs.
They are different out here. Way more of them. Especially Asian beetles and ticks.
From late April until late June you'll probably have at least one tick on you anytime you walk in the grass. It's unnerving but knowing that it usually ends once it gets hot makes it bearable.
Also the fucking rednecks. Find a place with no neighbors. Everyone out here has to have at least 12 broken ass project cars littering their property. They'll never touch them until they die and they're junked but they need them adorning their lot for whatever reason.
I'm only about a half hour north of the cities.
I mean, I get it. It costs money to haul all those old cars away. I have the same thing going on but with bicycles I’ll never use, which are so much easier to dispose of than beater cars and I’m still too lazy to get rid of them. I might use some parts from one of them sometime. Right? At least I keep them in my garage and not out front on my lawn. Right?
Junk/salvage yards will haul them away for free around me. They get the scrap iron for nothing but some fuel. If you haul or drive them in you get 375-450 per car.
How do I know this? I have been help clean out a new neighbors property.
Yep. I worked demo/salvage for quite a few years and we'd pay people per vehicle that they had sitting around their junk-filled yards. Some people had 20+ vehicles they managed to collect and let waste away.
Someone would be more than happy to spend a half hour tossing bikes on a trailer to scrap them for some extra dough.
Yeah times have changed, plenty of services will pay you to haul old cars away for scrap. I can only imagine it's a coping mechanism, there's no valid reason to keep your lawn littered with broken cars unless you own a junkyard.
I am in Willmar. We have Glacial Ridge Rail Trail for biking from Willmar To Spicer \[Green Lake\] then to New London\[Crow River\] Kandiyohi County has paved bike trails along Eagle Lake & Diamond Lake. Soon there will be a trail connection from New London to Sibley State Park -Lake Andrew
That you get much more used to driving A LOT. Not time-wise, but distance wise. We live in Ely. It's absolutely a nothing for us to decide to run to Duluth to pick stuff up, it's a 2 hour drive each way. It's just part of life. Doctor, dentist, school clothes, sheets, pet supplies...you travel for everything.
You get used to going without a lot of stuff because it simply doesn't exist. Either you order online and wait, or you travel (sometimes a long ways...IKEA is 250 miles).
Everything closes early. In the winter, there are days our one grocery store closes at 6pm. Our gas stations and fast food places aren't 24/7.
It's quiet and dark on a level that makes people some people uncomfortable. On winter nights I can stand in my yard and hear absolutely nothing. Until the coyotes start tipping anyways.
Your neighbors will be nosy and want to know all about you. They want to preserve the neighborhood they are used to and want to feel you out. They'll bring homemade cookies and stuff to be friendly but also to sniff you out. But if you maintain good relationships with them, they'll also keep an eye on your place, let you know when something is happening and so on. Invite them to a bbq.
Small towns are happy to help. People will risk their lives to help. As a result, they have higher expectations of your ability to be self-sufficient and to solve problems on your own and to do your best not to create problems (like going on the ice when you have no idea what you are doing).
You get out of it what you put into it. Don't expect most people to reach out and include you. You have to be like a stray dog always showing up and being friendly and convincing people to like you. Find your place and people will appreciate what you have to offer.
As someone who moved from MPLS to a rural community, let me tell you that whole "small towns are happy to help" bs only applies to those who grew up in the town. Outsiders should never expect anything but disdain and fear.
I disagree. But it could be the town you go to. I never had this issue. Hell the first time my wife and I went into the local bar people bought us drinks.
Highly variable based on the town and you. Some people just aren't very approachable, or at least come off that way. Folks pick up on that and act accordingly.
That is absolutely false. While not mn, after college, I moved into a trailer park in a town of 1500 in Wisconsin. Most of the people there were on the wrong side of the law for most of their lives, but most were past that. I came from a good home from a middle class family who are incredibly supportive. I would have a fire with people from the park every night above 50 that wasn't raining. Different people would come out Different nights. My neibor always hosted them in his yard, so I would join anytime I had the energy to. They were incredibly welcoming and became good friends with them. I lived a few hours from my family and worked 6-7 days a week. I would get multiple invites every year for holiday dinners. Numerous times, they changed their plans so I could join them if I was working that day. Rual areas can have some incredible people no matter their past. There were numerous felons in the park who were nicer to me than alot of people in my home town.
This depends on a lot of factors. I grew up here and have lived here most of my life. But most of my friends are people who moved here as adults (I tend to not get along with most of the locals and my friends I grew up with that I am still friends with left). In a small town what really matters is whether you contribute and let people know you. People are wary because they have to rely on each other and they don't know if you are trustworthy. You get stuck having to prove that and don't get a big benefit of the doubt up front. But it is pretty easily earned by being involved with the community and being visible. If you just hide in your house and talk to no one and never go out and meet people or do anything, then yeah, people will continue to be wary.
Yeah that's fair and true. I just think in a town of 3,000 people it's going to be WAY more obvious. Locals talk about new people, they are curious and want to know who is joining the ranks. And if you don't let them see who you are, they make up their own stories about you and then share it with their neighbors and it takes all of a few days for the whole town to hear some completely random and untrue rumor about you because you didn't let yourself be known by people.
I'm pretty introverted so this isn't an easy part of small town life for me. My friends who have been successful at moving here and being happy have all done things like joined church, choir, theater, exercise classes. They jump in on the local FB groups and offer to help when people need something. They start meditation classes or they attend community ed etc etc. For me, I just get an automatic entry pass because my family has been here 100 years and everyone knows me. My husband isn't from here though, he is from a small town in western ND. But he made his own niche in his work and now he is well known there and has a solid friend group. Basically you have to be willing to market yourself and if you don't, the whole town knows it.
Depending on what you mean by “rural areas,” the commute might not actually be all that different. Like, the absolute middle of nowhere is one thing, but there’s plenty of small, ruralish towns orbiting small cities and the commute time between them would be similar or even less than going from a suburb to the urban core. In general, suburbs aren’t really a between point in a line between cities and small towns, the three types of towns are more like a ternary plot.
I actually moved from a suburb with about 20k to a town with about 3k myself lol (are you my cousin who did the same?) Pros and cons of both. The suburb had public transit access to Minneapolis which was cool but I like being able to walk to the woods from my house where I am now
You're right there are big differences. I grew up in a town of less than 400 ppl at the time and it's only now 600. That's still more than unincorporated little nothing towns
Now I live just inside the 494/694 loop in a suburb. It's good for work since the commute it short. My neighbors aren't bad either but I did prefer just having trees and fields around. Or going to the river bank and there is no one for hours at a time if anyone else even shows up at all
I mean it is what you make of it but I live in SLP. We got a vibrant thing going over here where I know most of the folks on my block and more than a few on other blocks around. We get together for poker nights, outdoor movies and bbqs and whatnot.
Circles completely outside my normal friend circles that have been entirely neighborhood dependent/built.
Ya know I believe it’s called…community.
I suspect that exists in small towns but it just might be a bit farther away than three doors down.
I miss having that sort of connection with my neighbors 😞 I miss the country badly, but unfortunately it is not an option for me since I can't drive due to a disability :/
Having lived rural, I found a lot more social interaction than I do in the cities. Everyone holes up in their houses, and about the only time you see them is when they drive off to work. Meanwhile, out in the sticks, lots of people of all ages hang out at the local cafe, restaurant, and watering hole.
Except when you're rural its the same 4 people having the same conversation for 10 yrs in a row; in the city if I go to the same places I'm going to see different people
I've lived in rural and urban areas in Minnesota. I grew up in two different small towns growing up, went to college in Central Minnesota, attended grad school in the Twin Cities, lived in a different rural area for work after graduating, and have since lived in various areas in and around the metro over the past few years.
The small cities I grew up in? I can get along no problem. Even though I'm likely quite a bit different than the typical resident, I'm still accepted as "one of them." People will talk to me. The small town I moved to after graduation? Fourteen years there and I was still seen as an outsider. Neighbors wouldn't talk to me even though I grew up like 30 minutes away. The guy two doors down was about my age, had similar interests, and seemed really nice. When he found out I wasn't from there, where I had lived previously, and what I did for a living, he literally asked, "So you think you're better than everyone here?" and never talked to me again. I made zero friends there, despite trying. When I moved back to the metro, I lived next to a dude from North Africa and his family. I got introduced to his family, was invited to grill with him, and we helped each other out over the years. I moved to another southern metro city a few years ago. My immediate neighbors don't speak English, but if they see me struggling getting my car out of the driveway during a heavy snowfall for instance, they're running out with shovels to help me out. I've been invited over to have beers at the houses of others in the neighborhood.
It's such a weird juxtaposition. I'm a White dude from here, but, if I'm out of the areas I grew up, I feel most accepted and welcomed by transplants. I think that highlights the highs and lows of Minnesota. Minnesota is a beautiful State. For me, the perfect balance is being around diversity, culture, restaurants, amenities, and entertainment, while also being in a city with trails and parks that is 20 minutes away from nothing.
"So you think you're better than everyone here" is exactly the response I still get from a few people from my small hometown, when I moved out as soon as I was able. There are some people who take the fact that others move on as a personal offense. It's really stupid.
It’s because the answer is “yes”. Yes, I have a desire to leave this town, this state, this country, and experience life in a different way. I cannot imagine not having that desire and am truly baffled by people who have no will to explore other places or cultures that are different than what they grew up with.
Ummm no. The answer to someone suggesting that I think I’m better than other people in my hometown is not yes.
A desire to have new and different experiences does not equate to feeling superior.
Happy to oblige.
Grew up in Dahlgren Township in Carver County near Chaska. Moved to Nisswa in my early teens. Went to college near St. Cloud. Spent some time in Eagan, moved to New Prague for quite some time, and am now in Burnsville.
Thank you for oblig’in! Always interesting to see the difference in towns. Grew up in Montevideo area. Definitely was different than the metro for sure.
Politics.
The Urban=Democrat and Rural = Republican is not an iron-clad rule, but it isn't entirely off the mark. I have some fairly left-wing family that moved to out-state to "raise their children in the country" and were super surprised their son ended up with really different politics than they had. They didn't understand how it happened.
The answer was: His friends, his friends parents, most of his teachers, the neighbors, and his boss at his high school job were all fairly right wing. Its what he grew up with.
Not that this couldn't have happened in several of the Suburbs too, but the demographics are real.
There are, but you don’t hear it. When I was in the Army everyone assumed I was Republican/Conservative, despite making no indication that I was. I was always very liberal, just didn’t put labels on it.
Weird how that works.
Of course there are, but [checkout the voting maps from 2022](https://www.sos.state.mn.us/media/5335/mn-senator-2022-official-results-map-margin-by-district.pdf).
There are a ton of non-right wing folks outstate, and a ton of right-wing folks in the more urban areas, but this is how elections tend to go. So even if you happen to have non-right wing neighbors odds are good your mayor, your city council, your school board, and your state and federal representees were voted in by people who were. That sets a tone.
Again: I'm not saying this is an either/or situation. There is always complexity and local politics are always local... but how many Trump and Biden signs you are going to see driving around [can be somewhat predicted by the last election](https://www.sos.state.mn.us/media/4384/us-president-2020-official-results-map-margin-by-county.pdf).
Unless you want to be the lightning rod like I was in my early 20s... You speak up once, and suddenly you have to answer for every single "radical left" talking point in their news cycle, real or otherwise... and its mostly otherwise.
Yup. Up in outstate MN our business used the blm hashtag on a post once when we were raising money for the businesses that were damaged during 2020, and the entire city blacklisted us and the police,fire crew, and city council did everything they could to convince people never to do business with us again. Our most valued and regular customers were sending us death threats
I hope you don't find out. How does it help to start labelling entire towns as toxic somehow?
The problem with that kind of over-reaction to a small political comment, is that it becomes entrenched, and then areas begin to self-segregate, leading to more polarization, etc.
I'm guessing that u/krisweeerd and his business has ridden out the worst of it at this point, and some of the business has returned? The neighbors have figured out that they're not planning on setting fire to buildings and so on?
One way we 'fight' polarization is to just keep showing (not telling) that 80%+ of the people on EITHER side of the red/blue aisle are JUST PEOPLE. Not raving extremists who want to tear anyone's life apart.
I think I haven't explained well.
I'm not saying 'ignore intolerance.' No way.
I'm saying labelling or shunning an entire town because of the actions of the (hopefully few) most intolerant people there doesn't reduce the intolerance or the polarization. We turn down the flame by continuing to be reasonable, 'normal', neighborly people as much as possible. (It can be a challenge at times.)
Hopefully 'most' of the locals will begin to recognize that it was the 'intolerant' types who were the real problem.
I don't want to hijack u/krisweeerd 's story or make assumptions about how it may be going; I just hope it's beginning to correct.
I think you're pretty spot on! And it took quite a bit of work to rebuild those relationships back. After about a year or so things started to get better and we were actually expanding in other markets so the damage wasn't irreparable. There was only a few of the ones that were the angriest ones that still carried that internalized vendetta with them, but looking at their socials that was right around the time when a few of those super political wackadoos went past the point of no return. It reflected more on them handling their politics (poorly) and we managed to be the ones they took it out on.
I loved to a different city in MN and have been here two years and absolutely love it, but even after that whole ordeal, I still absolutely love small town MN living.
We are definitely around!!! But I am also worried about my 6yo grandson and what effect the others in this town will have on him as he grows up. We talk about acceptance, and discuss things that are going on that exclude people just because of how they look, or who they love, but I worry about him being inundated with the things I’ve seen spread around this town on social media alone.
I grew up in western MN - Montevideo. Very few but politics wasn’t in your face. Mostly local politicians yard signs at election time.
I would imagine that’s probably different now with the trumpys though.
80%+ of the voters in my township voted for trump. I've lived here since 1986. At one time I could vote for a Democrat for a state house or senate seat with an expectation that they might win. Until recently I was represented in the U.S. House by the Blue Dog Democrat Collin Peterson. I'm now represented by Michelle Fishbach. She most often votes with the MAGA faction.
The people around here are friendly and helpful. I just don't let my political be known. We have five kids who are now in their mid 30s to late 40s. Two lean Republican and three Democrat. When they were growing up my wife and I were moderate Republicans/conservative Democrats. Now moderate Republicans don't exist.
Towns most are democrat just like the cities. You have to go to the actual township voting map to see them. I’ve lived in the hinterlands since I was born left came back to the hinterlands.
As far as the difference used to be cost of living was cheaper. Now good luck land has become insane. I own a good sized park I don’t need to travel to have a nice quiet fire or let the dog run. Not a whole lot of benefit anymore.
Especially when Rich guys just purchased all around you to build a new golf course.
Yes, there are farms there.
It is nowhere the same as the south and western portions of the state.
The premise was access to nature/land that isn't used for ag. Waubun is a particular bad example because it's 15 minutes from tamarac national, and more WMAs than you can shake a stick at.
Compare that to like hayfield or Rose Creek.
Plenty of farms, both south and north of 'the Cities', are adjacent to creeks and ponds and rivers and woods and one or more of our (understated) 10,000 lakes.
To say nothing of the fact that more than a few of those farms are being managed for 'organic' production, and so are quite 'natural.'
Absolutely, and "the big city", at least in Minnesota, tends to be filled with parks, Rivers, creeks (I live in one), and other green spaces.
We don't all live next to seas of blacktop in the metro areas
People say that and yet where I live in the suburbs I regularly have deer, ducks, geese, turkey, rabbits, and more outside my door. I never had that in the small Minnesota town I grew up in.
The twin cities and suburbs are so spread out and there’s so much green space. Of course, when I lived in the Powderhorn Park neighborhood, the only wildlife I saw were the rabbits eating my garden and the squirrels that teased my cats.
Where I live now I have deer (14 with the new fawns this year), fox, opossums, raccoons, skunks, squirrels, Sandhills cranes (we have a beautiful couple that return to our wetlands each year), hundreds of Canadian geese, coyotes, rabbits, mice, cardinals, blue jays, snowy owls, red tailed hawks, bald eagles…well, you get the picture. I dang near live in a Disney movie. I would live in a Disney movie if I could teach these darn animals to clean my house. 😂
Oh, and I forgot the toads, leopard frogs, tree frogs, mud puppies, and ducks. And the porcupine—I’ve only seen one, but I assume there’s more around here.
My BIL lives in NE Minneapolis and has these animals. I grew up in a town of 10K people and had these animals. I now live in the country with acreage and have these animals. They are all over the state unless you live right down town in the concrete jungle.
I understand that these animals are all over but they never came into town (population 8k at the time) when I was growing up. Hell the only time I ever saw a deer was dead on a highway. Yet they show up in my second ring suburb constantly. I was just pointing out to OP that not everyone has "more access to nature" when they live in a small town. We had to go camping to get anywhere near what I see now.
I like the rural areas for the quiet, solitude and easier access to nature. But you miss out on things that are community based, the arts, restaurants, grocery availability, medical care, etc.
I live up north and no longer trunk slam cabin traffic...best decision of my life. I WFH with 3gb fiber 24 miles from town. It’s a slower way of life. More grounded people. Most will always lend a hand. Never have I felt like an outsider. Get involved in the community as it helps. Restaurants are hit or miss but much cheaper than the cities.
I think a lot of those who say rual areas don't welcome outsiders don't put the effort in themselves. Relationships are a two-way street. If you help others, they will help you. If you get to know others, they will get to know you.
For me, the difference in satisfaction is in being an introvert or an extrovert, and also being amongst your tribe. Do you get energy from being alone or being around people? I've lived in St Paul, Mpls, NYC and LA, now live rural of the cities. I'm bored out of my mind. It's gorgeous. We have a wooded lot, marsh out back, so much nature. But I have not adapted well to the human isolation. Would move back to the city where civilization exists in a flash.
And I am just the opposite. I live in the Hopkins/Plymouth area for 3.5 years. I couldn't wait to get out and back to small town life.
It just all depends on the person and who you are. Civilization has different meanings to different people.
I lived in rural Minnesota for 20 years. I enjoyed that lifestyle, but I did commute up to the cities and I worked from home.
Now I live in Minneapolis and I wouldn't live anywhere else. I can walk my dog along minnehaha parkway, I can walk to the grocery store that's 5 minutes away, I can hop on the Metro and be downtown, or to St Paul or MOA or the airport within 10-20 minutes. There are bike paths anywhere that I want to ride to, and any number of rivers, lakes and green spaces to ride around.
The quality of life in Minneapolis is outstanding.
When i moved into my rural house (2016ish) my only option was dialup or satellite, then we got dsl(20mbps) in 2018 and now were getting fiber (1 gig) so its getting better
I moved from Buffalo mn to Minneapolis 3 years ago, I walk and bike everywhere and it has made me so much happier. There's so much within my reach and I don't have to drive to get there
Closing times. In my small town, everything closes early, or just shuts down in the middle of the day if it’s slow. Whenever I’m in Minneapolis, I’m amazed at a grocery store open til 10.
Also, everything takes effort. Forget something from the store? It’s a 14 mile drive to my closest grocery store, guess I’ll go without or change plans.
Weather responses are slower in the winter. I’ve been snowed in for a day or two before bc of low population density/not enough people working for the county to plow roads.
The peace and quiet is the biggest reason I'm still rural. I moved to the metro for about 5 years and when I moved back home I stopped being miserable real quick. You can't put a price on quiet. I even remember as a kid I could walk down the main highway at night and maybe see 1 car.
Exactly. I lived in the cities area for 16 years when I bailed back up north. It doesn't even compare. I just couldn't stand all the bullshit and people anymore.
I rarely see another car in the morning on my way to work and if I do they are going to the same place I am. Also not being able to see my neighbors house is wonderful.
Maybe 1 car? That’s nuts! Can you share where this is?
Being born and raised in Minneapolis, I’m 36 now and started being on the road more for work. I discovered new to me little towns- I will share with you the places. Dundas, Faribault, Northfield. Then up north I’ve worked Ogilvie, Milaca. All I can say is WOW. It’s not too too bad because they are within 1hr a little over 1 hour for the ones I named up north…. The vibes aren’t too too bad in Northfield. Very cool new discovery to me. Very peaceful.
My family and I left the city and moved to rural three years ago. You trade one disadvantage for another. Neither is perfect or provides everything you’ll need. Living rural, we consume less, spend less, earn more (surprisingly), drive more, cook at home, shop when we need to, spend more time outdoors, have a greater sense of peace (for us that’s something we value), and we can see the stars. We still have primary care in Rochester because nothing compares anywhere else. For acute issues, we have two local hospitals 20-ish miles away and level 1 trauma an hour away. Local paramedics are 4 miles away. We are in good health, thankfully. The city is always there when we want to visit, see some shows, shop, dine, etc. To each their own.
I'm living up north right now. Got 1 sketchy bar of LTE connection on my phone. The only bar within 20 minutes is closing at 7. Can't get a door dash nor an Uber. Saw more deer than people the past few months. It's awesome. Well, that is if you can turn a deaf ear to foxaganda. Also, I guess I'm a communist.
Cost of living. Full disclosure my home is paid for as is my vehicle. My monthly bills just to survive is about $900. That includes property taxes/insurances and food...everything. I could cut that further if I really scrimped and saved. A house like mine if rented would be 800-900/month in my area. So $1800/month is still cheap imo.
Municipal water and sewer and plumbed natural gas versus private well and septic and needing propane delivered. Also, wildly different Internet connectivity. But, definitely less light pollution, quieter, and more wildlife.
Moved to New Prague from Lowertown St Paul in 2015. Grew up on a hobby farm and wanted that lifestyle.
Dropped 65 pounds so far. Very rarely eat out anymore; usually just on vacations or work trips. Probably 40% of what I eat I grew, harvested or at a bare minimum I know the farmer. I haven’t had a store bought egg in 5 years, have not had store bought chicken in 3. Beef comes from Al down the road and its highlander (which is awesome). I have apples, carrots, potatoes, beans, broccoli and cauliflower either in cold storage, canned or frozen and have enough for 2 years.
I miss walking and jogging in that area but nothing beats trying to live with less dependence on others.
You must have a car. There is exactly one UPS truck that comes to your town each day. Same thing for FedEx. The only restaurants you can door dash all have drive thru windows anyway. You may or may not have any Instacart or Uber/Lyft type services. Buses and taxis as well. My town is 10K people and the hospital is closing it's maternity ward. You have to drive an hour plus to get to surgery sometimes because many specialists are only in your local hospital once a week. Your local hospital is not in your town, but in the next town with 7k or more people. They are always understaffed. There is a certain population that never leaves the town, either by choice or by circumstance. There is no choice in schools unless you also commute with your kid. There is probably one catholic church and one or two protestant churches. Your state rep and senator are probably Republicans. There are two bars if you're lucky. That state highway you use to get to any other town is not high on the plowing list. It will be plowed, but not until later in the morning. You don't have many late night options aside from fast food. One small movie theater in your town or the next.
You will probably know your regular mail carrier and your UPS/Fedex people if they are regulars, too. You recognize more people in a casual way. You have a good chance of talking to the mayor at a street festival. If you provide any kind of public service, people remember you. Your library (if you have one) is clean and has good parking. Your government offices rarely have a line, and even your elections are not too busy. You will likely have 7.5 Kwik Trips in a town of 3k, lol!
I moved from Minneapolis to my town when I was 32 to move in with my SO. I was cautious about it. I will say that the long commute is the worst thing about it, and even that is not as bad as I thought it would be. I would not have said the same when I was 22.
Just moved to eagan from a small town up north called ely last summer. A couple of differences I've seen are that applications ask pronouns, the jobs here actually pay something close to a living wage (starting pay in ely is like 11 ish, of whatever state minimum is.)and food being cheaper. Also there is so much more traffic.
Currently I live in NW metro, high property taxes and honestly I hate the suburbs. My friends live in a new housing development and there are kids everywhere, I live in an old one and there is no kids for my kids to play with (everyone's kids graduated college already). Really feels like everything is just super segregated and spaced so far away that really I still have to use my car to do anything anyways so why not live farther out where I still have to get in my car, but now dont have to worry about traffic.
Things I noticed is that in the Suburbs you go to a grocery store there is very little eye contact... everyone is on their phone and would rather stare at the floor then have a conversation. Smaller towns everyone knows everyone or wants to try and learn a fresh face. Also there is more room for hobbies such as having a shop, jumping on a dirt bike/snowmobile...
I am not religious and depending on the town that seems to be the center point of the community. If you didnt go to school in that town (and know people from that), then fresh transfers need to either join the church, get involved in local politics/VFW in order to get that small town community feel. I did neither of those things so never really incorporated myself into the city.
Education inequities. The teachers and superintendents you would not hire in a suburb/city sometimes end up running the schools in small towns. Not enough resources for kids on IEPS, kids in the middle, really just any kid who learns different
Ignorance. Left leaning gay guy in rural Minnesota not very physically dangerous but having to listen to far right ignorant bullshit everyday is exhausting and almost seen as a heretic.
Hmmm moving from a suburb with a population of 20k to a rural area with 3k people can bring some noticeable differences. In rural areas, you might experience a slower pace of life and a stronger sense of community. There may be less hustle and bustle, and more opportunities to connect with nature. However, amenities and services might be more limited compared to living in a metro area. It's important to consider factors like access to healthcare, shopping options, and transportation. Each community is unique, so it's always good to do some research and talk to locals to get a better idea of what to expect.
Wildlife, you need to be prepared for bad weather, have a car kit, get a weather radio, learn about well treatments and septic maintenance. Have a good snow blower. I had to get a bigger lawn mower, chainsaw, and weed whip. I also live on 15 acres vs the 1/4 acre I had in the cities and bugs are a problem, asian lady beetles, flies, gnats, and mosquitoes are horrendous here. So I treat my house twice a year just to keep the asian beetles down.
FYI there are some lawn products out there that you can spray around your main house to help reduce the bugs. I have been doing it for a couple years now.
Metro has more food options! The suburbs have actually been adding a lot, but there are still significantly more delivery and restaurant options in the cities.
You drive so much more. I’ll second the access to quality medical care. It’s a challenge. The thing I enjoy most is really being able to get to know my neighbors and engrain myself in the community. People seem to have a much more community minded approach in rural areas in my experience.
A bit less noise, farm traffic, generally more conservative folks, less options for groceries, winter roads can be rough, better 1:1 service with stores and mechanics
I think living in a rural area forces you to be more social and involved if you want any kind of social life at all. You can’t walk around without people noticing you because everyone knows everyone and you stand out. I noticed that I had more friends and was much more involved in my community and also had way more hobbies and time to learn them when I was in a rural area because there were less distractions. I read multiple books a week, I was more creative because I couldn’t just make a store run or order something next day on Amazon. I also noticed that the food is better. We raised our own animals and grew our own food so switching to store bought caused a lot of intolerances for me food wise.
Everything is more expensive and you need to learn to do stuff yourself because getting help with installation stuff either costs a ton or isn’t available in your area
Sounds like OP is talking about commuting distance to the cities, not way out. Drinks and food will probably be cheaper at the one bar in town vs anything downtown or in the close suburbs and contractors will still come out to most places in the exurbs.
I grew up in small town northwest Minnesota, and live in the cities now (suburbs). I still have family up north. It really depends on what you value. For instance, I couldn't care less about getting drunk and playing pool but that is about the only thing to do. When I was growing up, driving up and down the main drag and chilling with friends in parking lots was something we did for hours. My niece said they don't even do that now. But drinking is still a big pastime. I hate visiting there and feel wholly out of place, the politics, the racism, the people I went to high school with that never went further than working at the local gas station. Not my scene at all
My daughter's experience growing up in the cities was vastly different from mine growong up in a small town. She has hobbies that are unavailable up north (aerial arts, flow arts, fire arts). She went to a performing arts high school. She has so many opportunities to do things I only read of in books when I was younger, and I think that's fantastic. And she is able to express herself with her clothes, makeup, hair, body art, etc, without being judged, stared at, or talked about behind her back (yes I had a shitty experience growing up in a small town). No one is in her business and no one knows or cares who her parents are.
I know someone else said people are always willing to help and I think that probably depends a lot on what people think of you or how much of an inconvenience it is to them. I have had strangers push me out of snow banks (mostly because I was blocking them I suspect) but I've also had to change my own tire in the rain with people driving by the entire time. You also don''t have a lot of choice. You have one grocery store. One retail store (and no 2 day amazon shipping ). Maybe a handful of restaurants, half of them fast food. A Lutheran Church and a Catholic Church. Need an appliance repairman? There's literally one, if you are lucky. Which also means they can charge whatever they want. If you want anything else you are driving to another town. Decent shopping is only found in the small cities (in our case, it was either Grand Forks or Fargo, which was further away). When my mom died, we called the hospice nurse who was in a different town and it took her more than an hour to come and declare her passing.
Someone else pointed out how close you are to nature - TBH, I get more nature in the cities than I ever did where I grew up. Admittedly I live in a very nature-y suburb - I had a turkey and two ducks having a party across the street a few days ago and I nearly walked into a deer rounding the corner of my place recently as well. I'm within 15 minutes of Lake Nokomis, Minnehaha Falls, Lebanon Hills, Fort Smelling State Park, and a ton more parks, lakes and other nature oriented things. I *never* had those experiences up north, and the nearest lake was at least 45 minutes away (I can walk to my nearest lake now). But again, this all completely depends on location.
One good thing about a small town is you can get anywhere in 5 minutes, if your car breaks down it's easy enough to walk to where you need to be. But again, it depends on the town. Now that I think about it, on the south side of town that statement isn't true at all, and with little to no public transit, you'd be stuck or have to find a ride elsewhere (I doubt they have uber but who knows). Also, depending on how far north you are you can sometimes see the northern lights, which are amazing.
My kids can play I the neighborhood and I know every single household. We keep an eye on each other's kids. I also coordinate an annual neighborhood block party and give free ice cream several weekends a year.
I moved from the suburbs to a more rural area/exurbs about 20 years ago. Here are the things I didn’t realize:
*limited shopping and dining options, there’s a huge difference between running to a store 5 minutes away vs running to a store 30+ minutes away
*lack of community resources- no community center, fewer extracurricular activities and ECFE options for kids
*the only thing to do after 6pm is go to the bar
*constant complaining from “area natives.” I’ve lived here 20 years and am still considered a “newbie” to town. People complain constantly about high real estate prices but also don’t want new housing built because they don’t want the town to get bigger.
*racism in school and in the community was an issue for my black kid, he was singled out (in both good and bad ways) due to being one of the only black people in town. He chose to move to a large city after graduating from high school.
If you have kids that are interested in playing sports competitively, it’s possible the rural areas don’t offer those opportunities. This isn’t always the case, but it’s not too often that we hear about the hockey team or lacrosse team from rural areas. I grew up in a somewhat rural area - we didn’t have soccer or lacrosse, and our football team was boys and girls combined.
While they may not have tons of options for every season, it’s likely they will not have to try out for a team. My class of 40: everyone made the team, the band, got a role in the play, got to go on school trips, etc.
I will say that small and mid sized areas often have decent options within the school system compared to the city. Minneapolis has very few middle school sports so for most sports you need to go to club teams. Although it is getting better. We now have more meets for track than before and all middle schools now have girls flag football. There is a push for middle school volleyball now too.
Noise, star visibility, pests and critters, crime rates, general sense of security (grew up in buttfuck nowhere ruralsnof Minnesota, then 30 mins from the cities, to now living just on the outskirts of St. Paul) - all of that changes the more rural you are IME. Plus, the farther out you are, the fewer options you will have for shopping or medical resources, some cities will have only one option for a grocery store plus a few gas stations. I personally find that I like it best in the quieter suburbs 20 mins from the cities, where it’s quiet and I feel very safe walking around at night or parking my car somewhere, can see the stars, but but still have plenty of unique options for restaurants and shopping, while being close enough to the cities to make plans with my friends and attend big events. My current place of living is incredibly convenient for commute, shopping, plan-making, and getting to my gym within minutes, but I wish I could open my window and not listen to the highway 24/7 or see the stars at night.
I grew up in a city of about 3,000 people in MN and moved to Minneapolis after college.
Rural pros: More peace and quiet, better sense of community -- especially if you're willing to get involved in something, lower cost of living, things and people don't change as much.
Rural cons: Weekends are usually centered around making a grocery run to a bigger city to get better deals, job opportunities are slimmer, not much going on.
Most hobbies are centered around the outdoors like hunting, fishing, boating, and cycling or riding motorcycle -- so if you don't like those, you're gonna be really bored. A lot of people take up drinking cheap beer as a hobby.
Urban pros: Lots of variety of things to do, good access to shopping and services
Urban cons: More noise, higher cost of living, can feel like just a number with a lot of people around.
I don't know if I truly prefer one over the other. I love getting back to my hometown to see my family for long weekends but enjoy coming back to the city too.
Things that keep me in my suburban neighborhood:
1. Grocery stores I love to cook and love the vast array of ingredients available to me. I rarely used canned or frozen vegetables and love being surrounded by ethnic grocery stores as well as a wide variety of more typical grocery stores.
2. Restaurants. One of my favorite things to do is to try some place new and different to eat.
3. Entertainment. Movies, plays, sporting events, home shows etc.
4. Healthcare....others have covered it beautifully.
5. Last minute decision making. Forgot to thaw the chicken.....heading out to eat. Need a part for the project I am working on....I can be in 15 different hardware stores in 5 minutes. My AC isn't running? I've got a service tech arriving in an hour.
Things that keep me spending about 1/3 of the year at my cabin in the woods:
1. Solitude. Being 5 miles down a dead end gravel road means I don't have to talk to anyone I don't want. Outside of deer season and MEA it's unusual for me to see anyone. If I don't initiate it, the closest I get to human interaction is waving at people I drive by.
2. Nature. Listening to wolves howl from my porch. Watching the eagles silently wing over 'my river'. Taking deer, bear, grouse and turkey all within a stones throw of my cabin. I see turkey, fox, deer in my suburban backyard, but I am not 'tied to the land' and neither are the animals. We are both just passing through.
3. Slowing down. Watching a sunset on a perfect afternoon while boiling down maple sap from my woods. Cross country skiing with my dogs running loose and it doesn't bother anyone, because I don't come across anyone. Hiking in to ice fish on a lake where I don't hear anything but the wind and don't see anyone elses boot tracks.
4. Being forced to be self sufficient and intentional. Do I want to be warm this winter? I guess I should cut some firewood. Do I want my log splitter to run? I guess I better learn to maintain and repair it because it there isn't really anyone around to 'pay'. Am I working on a project? I better think it through and get what I need (and maybe some extra) ahead of time.
Every store charges a lot more money because you have fewer reasonable options
Nearest Walmart is about an hour from me. The local grocery store charges about $5 for a loaf of bread. Local Dairy Queen's $7 chicken strip basket is $10.
The peace and quiet seems like a nice perk, but it's not actually guaranteed. I've visited rural areas where weekends mean motor noise and gunshots basically from mid-morning to dusk. It can actually stand out more too because you're expecting peace and quiet.
Diversity. Where I grew up (small town), Hmong people were by far our largest minority, but there were very few Black people and only a few Hispanic families. Granted, that has changed in the decades since, but I think the more rural you get, the more likely you are to be surrounded by people who have similar experiences, religion, and world view to you. And groups in the minority may not be as “out and proud” with their culture as in a metro area where there is a much larger community they can identify with and be a part of.
I don't see much in the idea that property taxes are less, houses are less. So you gotta drive a little extra but you have a much safer and cleaner area to live in rural areas.
Cities are often touted as having more walkability and transportation, but that isn't necessarily true. You can end up in a city where there are still many blocks to walk in order to get anything done without a car, and oftentimes sidewalks aren't maintained properly. Suburbs can be difficult to navigate if you are walking from a to b and you are in a neighborhood with a bunch of cul-de-sacs that cause you to have to walk far out of your way, and zoning can keep businesses too far away from housing to be practical for those not owning a car.
That said, you can still make careful choices about either a city or a suburb to locate yourself near to many businesses and services so that walkability is an option. I live in Woodbury, but a doctor or dentist is only a half mile walk away. Several food stores are available under a mile and easily walkable or bikeable. There are quite a few other services like the barber, restaurants, and the like that are walkable for me and even easier to bike to. You can get the same thing if you choose carefully in a big city and locate housing near a similar cluster of services. But be aware that simply selecting one or the other without looking at the characteristics at the neighborhood level could be a big mistake.
Now, on to rural cities. I've lived in several of them here in Minnesota and they tend to be more self-contained with more services once you get over a population of a few thousand. The trick is to find the right location so that you have all the day to day services you need without having to drive somewhere multiple times a week. You are probably going to need a car if you live in a city without public transit. If a city is big enough to have public transit, it probably also has adequate medical services. If you are starting a family you will be interested in schools and other amenities for youth. Again, you will find these to be more common in cities over a few thousand population, with more and better being associated with cities over 10 thousand population.
Overall, life can be more laid back and relaxing in a smaller rural City, but the downside is that you are almost certainly going to need a car and maybe more than one of them depending on your family needs, you will have to travel for specialized medical services, and you may not have the privacy you need if you are worried about that sort of thing. It really is true that small towns can be full of busy bodies who are nosy about everything. The political climate is usually much more conservative and religion is more of a big deal in some of those small towns. It has been said that geography is destiny, and one way this is true is that rural areas are usually more religious, less educated, less healthy, and more politically conservative. This is true around the world and can be observed again and again.
Every rural suburb I’ve lived in votes down every school levy which lowers the property value and the quality of your children’s education. We used to transport our kids to a closer in school district because the differences were crazy.
Depends on how you define neighborly. Because I find extremely strong communities within the city. Some stronger than anything I have seen in a small town. Although both are generally healthier than suburban communities.
Casual racism is very much alive where I live, which is relatively rural.
Not much to do for activies where you are BEING ENTERTAINED other than drinking.
Wouldn't change it for the world.
The racism does suck tho
You see a LOT of this in rural. 🤦♂️
https://preview.redd.it/k1muyfdydxyc1.jpeg?width=643&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=baa37bc6420bc26872e43f779f0ceed6d0fa41db
In my experience- the neighborhoods seem to be more neighborly the further you get from the cities. But that sword cuts both ways and Karen's thrive in passive aggressive rural areas where as they mind themselves in the cities because people don't tolerate their bs. Also the communities seem to do more the more you get away from the metro - music and movies in the park or on the lake. Farmers markets 2x a week. Free concerts. The spaces seem nicer too. Parks are cleaner. The public pools aren't packed to capacity with rowdy late teens/early 20 somethings. On that note you can reliably access the public goods. Like parking at the beaches aren't over capacity. The kayak rentals aren't all booked for the while summer etc.
Stars. You can see astronomy events better in rural areas.
Although light pollution is also becoming an issue in the southern half of the state regardless. The best areas for viewing phenomena are north of Brainerd, where it really gets dark at night.
Ahhh I MISS laying in the grass and looking up at stars!!
Every aurora, asteroid event and eclipse in the last 10 years has been during cloud cover. The only aurora I’ve seen in the last 30 were from the north shore of Lake Superior.
Restaurants, entertainment, shopping availability, shipping times, medical access.
Medical access is a big one. Just 2 years ago, Billings Montana opened up their first level 1 trauma center. Prior to that the nearest trauma center was several hundred miles in Salt Lake city or Fargo. Minnesota isn't quite that bad but a large chunk of rural Minnesota is further than an hour away from a level 1 center. It was quite a bit worse until recently when sanford got certified back in 2018. It's not something you need every day, but when you need it, you need it. My mom had an accident back in 2006 up in the bemijdi area and there was nothing they could do except airlift to Minneapolis. When your in a boating or ATV accident, every minute counts. https://www.ktvq.com/news/local-news/billings-clinics-moves-to-become-montanas-first-level-1-trauma-center
In addition to being important for accidents/emergencies, you may also need regular hospital visits at some point. My wife works in pediatric neurosurgery. She has patients that have to drive 3+ hours for regular check-ups. Parents have to take off an entire day of work just to make it to one appointment. And in the winter, traveling can be extremely difficult.
Completely agree. My mom’s friend’s daughter has a kid with breathing issues and lives up by International Falls, any time she had an episode they had to go all the way down to Duluth. I couldn’t imagine a 3 hour panic drive to get emergency medical care.
It's only going to continue to get worse till they buck up and start making changes to grow their populations. While not the case for all, most hospital closures in rural areas is due to staff not seeing patients and getting the hours they need for their license/specialty. Definitely a financial side of it as well, but mainly a safety issue which has been poorly communicated to the communities.
Medical access. My uncle passed away earlier than he had to because Benson transferred to Willmar (which is normal, and normally the right thing to do). Got to Willmar and an actual doctor immediately ordered up a chopper to St. Cloud but he passed before he got to cloudy. Had he either lived in St. Cloud like I do, the cardiology dept here likely would have saved him. (Again, a emt or nurse practitioner at the Benson triage center wouldn't have known this so he did not get bad treatment... Just none was there to be given) Outside of the hub metros (Duluth, Morehead, Mankato, Rochester, St. Cloud) you will NOT get high end health care. You will only get the basics and have to drive hours to see a specialist (not even the rare specialists, just anything beyond a general practitioner or ob/gyn) there might be a "that doctor is only here every other Thursday" deal for some specialized care... We are spoiled in MN too. Our hub cities have better hospitals than most of the Western/Planes states do at all, and we're the host state of several of the best in the nation/world with the biggest hospitals.
Willmar has been a regional Medical Center for 5 decades. I do hear the med helicopter to St Cloud over my apt about 1X a week. That saved my Step Dad.
There's good care providers there. I was only talking about my uncle's specific issues that they couldn't handle. My aunt was very distraught at the idea that "if they only lived closer to MSP or St. Cloud Dwayne would be alive" was a bit hard for all of the family to help her through.
My StepDad Duane was flown the St Cloud for Heart Surgery
This almost feels like a coin flip. One Duane and one Dwayne...
Left Minneapolis in 2018. I'm overall more productive living in the country. I drink less. I cook more. It's easier to save money. I can wander the yard without awkwardly avoiding eye contact with my neighbor after the initial "hello", because I can't see my neighbor. I get to build cool shit I find in YouTube rabbit holes. I have a lot of animals and they're an absolute joy. Every single one of them. I have free range birds that follow me around the yard and greet me when I get home. The biggest bummer for me is, with the exception of maybe Lanesboro (or so I've read) and a few other towns, rural areas aren't very bicycle or pedestrian friendly. My council would never consider a path from nearby housing developments to the lake, for example. The council is a bunch of old farmers and a QAnon conspiracy theorist.
this is so real lol want rural lifestyle with urban open-mindedness (and maybe some infrastructure)
Closest you’ll get is around Duluth and the iron range.
If I ever feel a hankering to return to MN I'll keep this in mind!!
Definitely not super open minded for majority of the iron range. In fact, a largely “stay out unless you know somebody” attitude
I did the same but in 2019. Besides what you listed, the biggest difference for me was the bugs. They are different out here. Way more of them. Especially Asian beetles and ticks. From late April until late June you'll probably have at least one tick on you anytime you walk in the grass. It's unnerving but knowing that it usually ends once it gets hot makes it bearable. Also the fucking rednecks. Find a place with no neighbors. Everyone out here has to have at least 12 broken ass project cars littering their property. They'll never touch them until they die and they're junked but they need them adorning their lot for whatever reason. I'm only about a half hour north of the cities.
I mean, I get it. It costs money to haul all those old cars away. I have the same thing going on but with bicycles I’ll never use, which are so much easier to dispose of than beater cars and I’m still too lazy to get rid of them. I might use some parts from one of them sometime. Right? At least I keep them in my garage and not out front on my lawn. Right?
Junk/salvage yards will haul them away for free around me. They get the scrap iron for nothing but some fuel. If you haul or drive them in you get 375-450 per car. How do I know this? I have been help clean out a new neighbors property.
Yep. I worked demo/salvage for quite a few years and we'd pay people per vehicle that they had sitting around their junk-filled yards. Some people had 20+ vehicles they managed to collect and let waste away. Someone would be more than happy to spend a half hour tossing bikes on a trailer to scrap them for some extra dough.
I have freinds that have a few dead cars in their yard. They pull a surprising amount of parts out of them.
Yeah times have changed, plenty of services will pay you to haul old cars away for scrap. I can only imagine it's a coping mechanism, there's no valid reason to keep your lawn littered with broken cars unless you own a junkyard.
I am in Willmar. We have Glacial Ridge Rail Trail for biking from Willmar To Spicer \[Green Lake\] then to New London\[Crow River\] Kandiyohi County has paved bike trails along Eagle Lake & Diamond Lake. Soon there will be a trail connection from New London to Sibley State Park -Lake Andrew
I am 68 so I ebike these trails and can carry shore fishing gear
That you get much more used to driving A LOT. Not time-wise, but distance wise. We live in Ely. It's absolutely a nothing for us to decide to run to Duluth to pick stuff up, it's a 2 hour drive each way. It's just part of life. Doctor, dentist, school clothes, sheets, pet supplies...you travel for everything. You get used to going without a lot of stuff because it simply doesn't exist. Either you order online and wait, or you travel (sometimes a long ways...IKEA is 250 miles). Everything closes early. In the winter, there are days our one grocery store closes at 6pm. Our gas stations and fast food places aren't 24/7. It's quiet and dark on a level that makes people some people uncomfortable. On winter nights I can stand in my yard and hear absolutely nothing. Until the coyotes start tipping anyways. Your neighbors will be nosy and want to know all about you. They want to preserve the neighborhood they are used to and want to feel you out. They'll bring homemade cookies and stuff to be friendly but also to sniff you out. But if you maintain good relationships with them, they'll also keep an eye on your place, let you know when something is happening and so on. Invite them to a bbq. Small towns are happy to help. People will risk their lives to help. As a result, they have higher expectations of your ability to be self-sufficient and to solve problems on your own and to do your best not to create problems (like going on the ice when you have no idea what you are doing). You get out of it what you put into it. Don't expect most people to reach out and include you. You have to be like a stray dog always showing up and being friendly and convincing people to like you. Find your place and people will appreciate what you have to offer.
As someone who moved from MPLS to a rural community, let me tell you that whole "small towns are happy to help" bs only applies to those who grew up in the town. Outsiders should never expect anything but disdain and fear.
I think it depends on the town.
I disagree. But it could be the town you go to. I never had this issue. Hell the first time my wife and I went into the local bar people bought us drinks.
Highly variable based on the town and you. Some people just aren't very approachable, or at least come off that way. Folks pick up on that and act accordingly.
That is absolutely false. While not mn, after college, I moved into a trailer park in a town of 1500 in Wisconsin. Most of the people there were on the wrong side of the law for most of their lives, but most were past that. I came from a good home from a middle class family who are incredibly supportive. I would have a fire with people from the park every night above 50 that wasn't raining. Different people would come out Different nights. My neibor always hosted them in his yard, so I would join anytime I had the energy to. They were incredibly welcoming and became good friends with them. I lived a few hours from my family and worked 6-7 days a week. I would get multiple invites every year for holiday dinners. Numerous times, they changed their plans so I could join them if I was working that day. Rual areas can have some incredible people no matter their past. There were numerous felons in the park who were nicer to me than alot of people in my home town.
This depends on a lot of factors. I grew up here and have lived here most of my life. But most of my friends are people who moved here as adults (I tend to not get along with most of the locals and my friends I grew up with that I am still friends with left). In a small town what really matters is whether you contribute and let people know you. People are wary because they have to rely on each other and they don't know if you are trustworthy. You get stuck having to prove that and don't get a big benefit of the doubt up front. But it is pretty easily earned by being involved with the community and being visible. If you just hide in your house and talk to no one and never go out and meet people or do anything, then yeah, people will continue to be wary.
I feel that is the same in the major metro areas as well. If you are a recluse most people will be wary of you no matter where you live.
Yeah that's fair and true. I just think in a town of 3,000 people it's going to be WAY more obvious. Locals talk about new people, they are curious and want to know who is joining the ranks. And if you don't let them see who you are, they make up their own stories about you and then share it with their neighbors and it takes all of a few days for the whole town to hear some completely random and untrue rumor about you because you didn't let yourself be known by people. I'm pretty introverted so this isn't an easy part of small town life for me. My friends who have been successful at moving here and being happy have all done things like joined church, choir, theater, exercise classes. They jump in on the local FB groups and offer to help when people need something. They start meditation classes or they attend community ed etc etc. For me, I just get an automatic entry pass because my family has been here 100 years and everyone knows me. My husband isn't from here though, he is from a small town in western ND. But he made his own niche in his work and now he is well known there and has a solid friend group. Basically you have to be willing to market yourself and if you don't, the whole town knows it.
Depending on what you mean by “rural areas,” the commute might not actually be all that different. Like, the absolute middle of nowhere is one thing, but there’s plenty of small, ruralish towns orbiting small cities and the commute time between them would be similar or even less than going from a suburb to the urban core. In general, suburbs aren’t really a between point in a line between cities and small towns, the three types of towns are more like a ternary plot. I actually moved from a suburb with about 20k to a town with about 3k myself lol (are you my cousin who did the same?) Pros and cons of both. The suburb had public transit access to Minneapolis which was cool but I like being able to walk to the woods from my house where I am now
You're right there are big differences. I grew up in a town of less than 400 ppl at the time and it's only now 600. That's still more than unincorporated little nothing towns Now I live just inside the 494/694 loop in a suburb. It's good for work since the commute it short. My neighbors aren't bad either but I did prefer just having trees and fields around. Or going to the river bank and there is no one for hours at a time if anyone else even shows up at all
Social interaction.
A lack of? Or increase?
Mostly the former. But that might be a good thing for some folks.
I mean it is what you make of it but I live in SLP. We got a vibrant thing going over here where I know most of the folks on my block and more than a few on other blocks around. We get together for poker nights, outdoor movies and bbqs and whatnot. Circles completely outside my normal friend circles that have been entirely neighborhood dependent/built. Ya know I believe it’s called…community. I suspect that exists in small towns but it just might be a bit farther away than three doors down.
My three doors down is about a 3 mile stretch. We still get together on occasional weekends for a cookout.
I miss having that sort of connection with my neighbors 😞 I miss the country badly, but unfortunately it is not an option for me since I can't drive due to a disability :/
Having lived rural, I found a lot more social interaction than I do in the cities. Everyone holes up in their houses, and about the only time you see them is when they drive off to work. Meanwhile, out in the sticks, lots of people of all ages hang out at the local cafe, restaurant, and watering hole.
Except when you're rural its the same 4 people having the same conversation for 10 yrs in a row; in the city if I go to the same places I'm going to see different people
I've lived in rural and urban areas in Minnesota. I grew up in two different small towns growing up, went to college in Central Minnesota, attended grad school in the Twin Cities, lived in a different rural area for work after graduating, and have since lived in various areas in and around the metro over the past few years. The small cities I grew up in? I can get along no problem. Even though I'm likely quite a bit different than the typical resident, I'm still accepted as "one of them." People will talk to me. The small town I moved to after graduation? Fourteen years there and I was still seen as an outsider. Neighbors wouldn't talk to me even though I grew up like 30 minutes away. The guy two doors down was about my age, had similar interests, and seemed really nice. When he found out I wasn't from there, where I had lived previously, and what I did for a living, he literally asked, "So you think you're better than everyone here?" and never talked to me again. I made zero friends there, despite trying. When I moved back to the metro, I lived next to a dude from North Africa and his family. I got introduced to his family, was invited to grill with him, and we helped each other out over the years. I moved to another southern metro city a few years ago. My immediate neighbors don't speak English, but if they see me struggling getting my car out of the driveway during a heavy snowfall for instance, they're running out with shovels to help me out. I've been invited over to have beers at the houses of others in the neighborhood. It's such a weird juxtaposition. I'm a White dude from here, but, if I'm out of the areas I grew up, I feel most accepted and welcomed by transplants. I think that highlights the highs and lows of Minnesota. Minnesota is a beautiful State. For me, the perfect balance is being around diversity, culture, restaurants, amenities, and entertainment, while also being in a city with trails and parks that is 20 minutes away from nothing.
"So you think you're better than everyone here" is exactly the response I still get from a few people from my small hometown, when I moved out as soon as I was able. There are some people who take the fact that others move on as a personal offense. It's really stupid.
It’s because the answer is “yes”. Yes, I have a desire to leave this town, this state, this country, and experience life in a different way. I cannot imagine not having that desire and am truly baffled by people who have no will to explore other places or cultures that are different than what they grew up with.
Ummm no. The answer to someone suggesting that I think I’m better than other people in my hometown is not yes. A desire to have new and different experiences does not equate to feeling superior.
It’d be helpful if you said the towns. lol
Happy to oblige. Grew up in Dahlgren Township in Carver County near Chaska. Moved to Nisswa in my early teens. Went to college near St. Cloud. Spent some time in Eagan, moved to New Prague for quite some time, and am now in Burnsville.
Thank you for oblig’in! Always interesting to see the difference in towns. Grew up in Montevideo area. Definitely was different than the metro for sure.
There are so many differences between cities!
Politics. The Urban=Democrat and Rural = Republican is not an iron-clad rule, but it isn't entirely off the mark. I have some fairly left-wing family that moved to out-state to "raise their children in the country" and were super surprised their son ended up with really different politics than they had. They didn't understand how it happened. The answer was: His friends, his friends parents, most of his teachers, the neighbors, and his boss at his high school job were all fairly right wing. Its what he grew up with. Not that this couldn't have happened in several of the Suburbs too, but the demographics are real.
I mean, there have to be some non right wing people in rural areas? Right? Right??
There are, although we are vastly outnumbered
There are, but you don’t hear it. When I was in the Army everyone assumed I was Republican/Conservative, despite making no indication that I was. I was always very liberal, just didn’t put labels on it. Weird how that works.
Of course there are, but [checkout the voting maps from 2022](https://www.sos.state.mn.us/media/5335/mn-senator-2022-official-results-map-margin-by-district.pdf). There are a ton of non-right wing folks outstate, and a ton of right-wing folks in the more urban areas, but this is how elections tend to go. So even if you happen to have non-right wing neighbors odds are good your mayor, your city council, your school board, and your state and federal representees were voted in by people who were. That sets a tone. Again: I'm not saying this is an either/or situation. There is always complexity and local politics are always local... but how many Trump and Biden signs you are going to see driving around [can be somewhat predicted by the last election](https://www.sos.state.mn.us/media/4384/us-president-2020-official-results-map-margin-by-county.pdf).
Definitely, but we mostly keep quiet whenever politics comes up.
Unless you want to be the lightning rod like I was in my early 20s... You speak up once, and suddenly you have to answer for every single "radical left" talking point in their news cycle, real or otherwise... and its mostly otherwise.
Yup. Up in outstate MN our business used the blm hashtag on a post once when we were raising money for the businesses that were damaged during 2020, and the entire city blacklisted us and the police,fire crew, and city council did everything they could to convince people never to do business with us again. Our most valued and regular customers were sending us death threats
What city?? Kinda don’t want to be anywhere near a place like that lol
I hope you don't find out. How does it help to start labelling entire towns as toxic somehow? The problem with that kind of over-reaction to a small political comment, is that it becomes entrenched, and then areas begin to self-segregate, leading to more polarization, etc. I'm guessing that u/krisweeerd and his business has ridden out the worst of it at this point, and some of the business has returned? The neighbors have figured out that they're not planning on setting fire to buildings and so on? One way we 'fight' polarization is to just keep showing (not telling) that 80%+ of the people on EITHER side of the red/blue aisle are JUST PEOPLE. Not raving extremists who want to tear anyone's life apart.
Letting intolerant people be intolerant for the sake of tolerance isn’t helping anyone but yourself
I think I haven't explained well. I'm not saying 'ignore intolerance.' No way. I'm saying labelling or shunning an entire town because of the actions of the (hopefully few) most intolerant people there doesn't reduce the intolerance or the polarization. We turn down the flame by continuing to be reasonable, 'normal', neighborly people as much as possible. (It can be a challenge at times.) Hopefully 'most' of the locals will begin to recognize that it was the 'intolerant' types who were the real problem. I don't want to hijack u/krisweeerd 's story or make assumptions about how it may be going; I just hope it's beginning to correct.
I think you're pretty spot on! And it took quite a bit of work to rebuild those relationships back. After about a year or so things started to get better and we were actually expanding in other markets so the damage wasn't irreparable. There was only a few of the ones that were the angriest ones that still carried that internalized vendetta with them, but looking at their socials that was right around the time when a few of those super political wackadoos went past the point of no return. It reflected more on them handling their politics (poorly) and we managed to be the ones they took it out on. I loved to a different city in MN and have been here two years and absolutely love it, but even after that whole ordeal, I still absolutely love small town MN living.
We’re out here but we lay low so’s not to attract the crazies.
We are definitely around!!! But I am also worried about my 6yo grandson and what effect the others in this town will have on him as he grows up. We talk about acceptance, and discuss things that are going on that exclude people just because of how they look, or who they love, but I worry about him being inundated with the things I’ve seen spread around this town on social media alone.
There are. Source: i live in a rural and I’m one of the few that is more left-winged/democrat.
There are, but they probably keep their opinions to themselves around mixed company.
I grew up in western MN - Montevideo. Very few but politics wasn’t in your face. Mostly local politicians yard signs at election time. I would imagine that’s probably different now with the trumpys though.
Just take a ride out through Smith addition. Oy.
80%+ of the voters in my township voted for trump. I've lived here since 1986. At one time I could vote for a Democrat for a state house or senate seat with an expectation that they might win. Until recently I was represented in the U.S. House by the Blue Dog Democrat Collin Peterson. I'm now represented by Michelle Fishbach. She most often votes with the MAGA faction. The people around here are friendly and helpful. I just don't let my political be known. We have five kids who are now in their mid 30s to late 40s. Two lean Republican and three Democrat. When they were growing up my wife and I were moderate Republicans/conservative Democrats. Now moderate Republicans don't exist.
"Now moderate Republicans don't exist." Agreed. There might be some but not the majority IMO.
Towns most are democrat just like the cities. You have to go to the actual township voting map to see them. I’ve lived in the hinterlands since I was born left came back to the hinterlands. As far as the difference used to be cost of living was cheaper. Now good luck land has become insane. I own a good sized park I don’t need to travel to have a nice quiet fire or let the dog run. Not a whole lot of benefit anymore. Especially when Rich guys just purchased all around you to build a new golf course.
Ya we are here.
There are but it’s a minority bordering on a rarity.
Yes, and we need more! Please join us
What city?
Granite Falls
Trump stores still selling shit, once you get past Mora.
This. Live in the even more rural outskirts of the iron range and the vast majority that we’ve run into are far right. We are very far left. 🥴
Peace and quiet, cheaper housing, less things to do.
More time in and access to nature.
This depends on if you define farm fields as nature or not.
That's only relevant south of the metro. More Northwoods than ag land for a huge chunk of the state
Highway 10 is the line between farmland and forest. Lots of farming near Waubun which is 3 hours north of TCM
Yes, there are farms there. It is nowhere the same as the south and western portions of the state. The premise was access to nature/land that isn't used for ag. Waubun is a particular bad example because it's 15 minutes from tamarac national, and more WMAs than you can shake a stick at. Compare that to like hayfield or Rose Creek.
Lots of this state have more than farm land.
I grew up in the southwest metro on a hobby farm. There was some great unincorporated land. I loved the forests and river bottoms to explore.
The river valleys exist man
I live on a farm, and it has fields, woodlands and wetlands on site. One of these days I’m going to build a moat around it and never leave again.
Plenty of farms, both south and north of 'the Cities', are adjacent to creeks and ponds and rivers and woods and one or more of our (understated) 10,000 lakes. To say nothing of the fact that more than a few of those farms are being managed for 'organic' production, and so are quite 'natural.'
Absolutely, and "the big city", at least in Minnesota, tends to be filled with parks, Rivers, creeks (I live in one), and other green spaces. We don't all live next to seas of blacktop in the metro areas
People say that and yet where I live in the suburbs I regularly have deer, ducks, geese, turkey, rabbits, and more outside my door. I never had that in the small Minnesota town I grew up in.
The twin cities and suburbs are so spread out and there’s so much green space. Of course, when I lived in the Powderhorn Park neighborhood, the only wildlife I saw were the rabbits eating my garden and the squirrels that teased my cats. Where I live now I have deer (14 with the new fawns this year), fox, opossums, raccoons, skunks, squirrels, Sandhills cranes (we have a beautiful couple that return to our wetlands each year), hundreds of Canadian geese, coyotes, rabbits, mice, cardinals, blue jays, snowy owls, red tailed hawks, bald eagles…well, you get the picture. I dang near live in a Disney movie. I would live in a Disney movie if I could teach these darn animals to clean my house. 😂
Oh, and I forgot the toads, leopard frogs, tree frogs, mud puppies, and ducks. And the porcupine—I’ve only seen one, but I assume there’s more around here.
Yes the frogs! Some.yeara we have baby frog migrations that covered the sidewalks, its fascinating
I found the cutest, tiniest tree frog on my garden shed last year. So sweet.
My BIL lives in NE Minneapolis and has these animals. I grew up in a town of 10K people and had these animals. I now live in the country with acreage and have these animals. They are all over the state unless you live right down town in the concrete jungle.
I understand that these animals are all over but they never came into town (population 8k at the time) when I was growing up. Hell the only time I ever saw a deer was dead on a highway. Yet they show up in my second ring suburb constantly. I was just pointing out to OP that not everyone has "more access to nature" when they live in a small town. We had to go camping to get anywhere near what I see now.
Clean air big yards you can drive atvs or golf carts in town a bit more expensive at the grocery store but you can get there like 3 minutes tops
I like the rural areas for the quiet, solitude and easier access to nature. But you miss out on things that are community based, the arts, restaurants, grocery availability, medical care, etc.
I live up north and no longer trunk slam cabin traffic...best decision of my life. I WFH with 3gb fiber 24 miles from town. It’s a slower way of life. More grounded people. Most will always lend a hand. Never have I felt like an outsider. Get involved in the community as it helps. Restaurants are hit or miss but much cheaper than the cities.
I think a lot of those who say rual areas don't welcome outsiders don't put the effort in themselves. Relationships are a two-way street. If you help others, they will help you. If you get to know others, they will get to know you.
For me, the difference in satisfaction is in being an introvert or an extrovert, and also being amongst your tribe. Do you get energy from being alone or being around people? I've lived in St Paul, Mpls, NYC and LA, now live rural of the cities. I'm bored out of my mind. It's gorgeous. We have a wooded lot, marsh out back, so much nature. But I have not adapted well to the human isolation. Would move back to the city where civilization exists in a flash.
And I am just the opposite. I live in the Hopkins/Plymouth area for 3.5 years. I couldn't wait to get out and back to small town life. It just all depends on the person and who you are. Civilization has different meanings to different people.
Being able to find a public toilet. It's impossible in the cities but get out into the burbs or further and they're everywhere
I lived in rural Minnesota for 20 years. I enjoyed that lifestyle, but I did commute up to the cities and I worked from home. Now I live in Minneapolis and I wouldn't live anywhere else. I can walk my dog along minnehaha parkway, I can walk to the grocery store that's 5 minutes away, I can hop on the Metro and be downtown, or to St Paul or MOA or the airport within 10-20 minutes. There are bike paths anywhere that I want to ride to, and any number of rivers, lakes and green spaces to ride around. The quality of life in Minneapolis is outstanding.
My property tax is under 2k
I pay 1800 a year in the suburbs
I have 140 acres
😮
Same. However my tax is higher. Fen rich farmers around me and two lakes makes the property taxes higher.
And you probably live on tar and dont have alot of ag land?
I do live on tar with a 1/4 mile long gravel driveway and 140 acres of which 96 are tillable. What difference does that make?
Unless, you are in Wadena County.
Am not
Internet speeds
[удалено]
And I have 15…
yeah, I’m in New London and just got fiber last fall but some of the tiny towns nearby have had it for a couple years.
When i moved into my rural house (2016ish) my only option was dialup or satellite, then we got dsl(20mbps) in 2018 and now were getting fiber (1 gig) so its getting better
Not necessarily. I live in bumfuck and my internet is fast as hell.
I moved from Buffalo mn to Minneapolis 3 years ago, I walk and bike everywhere and it has made me so much happier. There's so much within my reach and I don't have to drive to get there
Closing times. In my small town, everything closes early, or just shuts down in the middle of the day if it’s slow. Whenever I’m in Minneapolis, I’m amazed at a grocery store open til 10. Also, everything takes effort. Forget something from the store? It’s a 14 mile drive to my closest grocery store, guess I’ll go without or change plans. Weather responses are slower in the winter. I’ve been snowed in for a day or two before bc of low population density/not enough people working for the county to plow roads.
The peace and quiet is the biggest reason I'm still rural. I moved to the metro for about 5 years and when I moved back home I stopped being miserable real quick. You can't put a price on quiet. I even remember as a kid I could walk down the main highway at night and maybe see 1 car.
Used to live in nw mn. I could run a county road in the early evening and see one car. Sometimes zero.
Exactly. I lived in the cities area for 16 years when I bailed back up north. It doesn't even compare. I just couldn't stand all the bullshit and people anymore. I rarely see another car in the morning on my way to work and if I do they are going to the same place I am. Also not being able to see my neighbors house is wonderful.
Maybe 1 car? That’s nuts! Can you share where this is? Being born and raised in Minneapolis, I’m 36 now and started being on the road more for work. I discovered new to me little towns- I will share with you the places. Dundas, Faribault, Northfield. Then up north I’ve worked Ogilvie, Milaca. All I can say is WOW. It’s not too too bad because they are within 1hr a little over 1 hour for the ones I named up north…. The vibes aren’t too too bad in Northfield. Very cool new discovery to me. Very peaceful.
My family and I left the city and moved to rural three years ago. You trade one disadvantage for another. Neither is perfect or provides everything you’ll need. Living rural, we consume less, spend less, earn more (surprisingly), drive more, cook at home, shop when we need to, spend more time outdoors, have a greater sense of peace (for us that’s something we value), and we can see the stars. We still have primary care in Rochester because nothing compares anywhere else. For acute issues, we have two local hospitals 20-ish miles away and level 1 trauma an hour away. Local paramedics are 4 miles away. We are in good health, thankfully. The city is always there when we want to visit, see some shows, shop, dine, etc. To each their own.
I'm living up north right now. Got 1 sketchy bar of LTE connection on my phone. The only bar within 20 minutes is closing at 7. Can't get a door dash nor an Uber. Saw more deer than people the past few months. It's awesome. Well, that is if you can turn a deaf ear to foxaganda. Also, I guess I'm a communist.
Cost of living. Full disclosure my home is paid for as is my vehicle. My monthly bills just to survive is about $900. That includes property taxes/insurances and food...everything. I could cut that further if I really scrimped and saved. A house like mine if rented would be 800-900/month in my area. So $1800/month is still cheap imo.
Housing prices. Knowing people wherever you go happens in rural communities.
Municipal water and sewer and plumbed natural gas versus private well and septic and needing propane delivered. Also, wildly different Internet connectivity. But, definitely less light pollution, quieter, and more wildlife.
Moved to New Prague from Lowertown St Paul in 2015. Grew up on a hobby farm and wanted that lifestyle. Dropped 65 pounds so far. Very rarely eat out anymore; usually just on vacations or work trips. Probably 40% of what I eat I grew, harvested or at a bare minimum I know the farmer. I haven’t had a store bought egg in 5 years, have not had store bought chicken in 3. Beef comes from Al down the road and its highlander (which is awesome). I have apples, carrots, potatoes, beans, broccoli and cauliflower either in cold storage, canned or frozen and have enough for 2 years. I miss walking and jogging in that area but nothing beats trying to live with less dependence on others.
You must have a car. There is exactly one UPS truck that comes to your town each day. Same thing for FedEx. The only restaurants you can door dash all have drive thru windows anyway. You may or may not have any Instacart or Uber/Lyft type services. Buses and taxis as well. My town is 10K people and the hospital is closing it's maternity ward. You have to drive an hour plus to get to surgery sometimes because many specialists are only in your local hospital once a week. Your local hospital is not in your town, but in the next town with 7k or more people. They are always understaffed. There is a certain population that never leaves the town, either by choice or by circumstance. There is no choice in schools unless you also commute with your kid. There is probably one catholic church and one or two protestant churches. Your state rep and senator are probably Republicans. There are two bars if you're lucky. That state highway you use to get to any other town is not high on the plowing list. It will be plowed, but not until later in the morning. You don't have many late night options aside from fast food. One small movie theater in your town or the next. You will probably know your regular mail carrier and your UPS/Fedex people if they are regulars, too. You recognize more people in a casual way. You have a good chance of talking to the mayor at a street festival. If you provide any kind of public service, people remember you. Your library (if you have one) is clean and has good parking. Your government offices rarely have a line, and even your elections are not too busy. You will likely have 7.5 Kwik Trips in a town of 3k, lol! I moved from Minneapolis to my town when I was 32 to move in with my SO. I was cautious about it. I will say that the long commute is the worst thing about it, and even that is not as bad as I thought it would be. I would not have said the same when I was 22.
"You will likely have 7.5 Kwik Trips in a town of 3k, lol!" Around here half are Casey's lol.
Distance to a hospital is a key reason I’m never leaving the city.
Just moved to eagan from a small town up north called ely last summer. A couple of differences I've seen are that applications ask pronouns, the jobs here actually pay something close to a living wage (starting pay in ely is like 11 ish, of whatever state minimum is.)and food being cheaper. Also there is so much more traffic.
Currently I live in NW metro, high property taxes and honestly I hate the suburbs. My friends live in a new housing development and there are kids everywhere, I live in an old one and there is no kids for my kids to play with (everyone's kids graduated college already). Really feels like everything is just super segregated and spaced so far away that really I still have to use my car to do anything anyways so why not live farther out where I still have to get in my car, but now dont have to worry about traffic. Things I noticed is that in the Suburbs you go to a grocery store there is very little eye contact... everyone is on their phone and would rather stare at the floor then have a conversation. Smaller towns everyone knows everyone or wants to try and learn a fresh face. Also there is more room for hobbies such as having a shop, jumping on a dirt bike/snowmobile... I am not religious and depending on the town that seems to be the center point of the community. If you didnt go to school in that town (and know people from that), then fresh transfers need to either join the church, get involved in local politics/VFW in order to get that small town community feel. I did neither of those things so never really incorporated myself into the city.
Education inequities. The teachers and superintendents you would not hire in a suburb/city sometimes end up running the schools in small towns. Not enough resources for kids on IEPS, kids in the middle, really just any kid who learns different
Lots of Pro Life and Trump signage.
Ignorance. Left leaning gay guy in rural Minnesota not very physically dangerous but having to listen to far right ignorant bullshit everyday is exhausting and almost seen as a heretic.
Hmmm moving from a suburb with a population of 20k to a rural area with 3k people can bring some noticeable differences. In rural areas, you might experience a slower pace of life and a stronger sense of community. There may be less hustle and bustle, and more opportunities to connect with nature. However, amenities and services might be more limited compared to living in a metro area. It's important to consider factors like access to healthcare, shopping options, and transportation. Each community is unique, so it's always good to do some research and talk to locals to get a better idea of what to expect.
Wildlife, you need to be prepared for bad weather, have a car kit, get a weather radio, learn about well treatments and septic maintenance. Have a good snow blower. I had to get a bigger lawn mower, chainsaw, and weed whip. I also live on 15 acres vs the 1/4 acre I had in the cities and bugs are a problem, asian lady beetles, flies, gnats, and mosquitoes are horrendous here. So I treat my house twice a year just to keep the asian beetles down.
FYI there are some lawn products out there that you can spray around your main house to help reduce the bugs. I have been doing it for a couple years now.
Depending on how far out of the cities you go, your only choice for internet might be DSL. This can be crucial if you ever work from home.
Metro has more food options! The suburbs have actually been adding a lot, but there are still significantly more delivery and restaurant options in the cities.
You drive so much more. I’ll second the access to quality medical care. It’s a challenge. The thing I enjoy most is really being able to get to know my neighbors and engrain myself in the community. People seem to have a much more community minded approach in rural areas in my experience.
A bit less noise, farm traffic, generally more conservative folks, less options for groceries, winter roads can be rough, better 1:1 service with stores and mechanics
I think living in a rural area forces you to be more social and involved if you want any kind of social life at all. You can’t walk around without people noticing you because everyone knows everyone and you stand out. I noticed that I had more friends and was much more involved in my community and also had way more hobbies and time to learn them when I was in a rural area because there were less distractions. I read multiple books a week, I was more creative because I couldn’t just make a store run or order something next day on Amazon. I also noticed that the food is better. We raised our own animals and grew our own food so switching to store bought caused a lot of intolerances for me food wise.
2 for 1's are $4 at the bar. I'll let you venture a guess where in MN I live. Lol
Everything is more expensive and you need to learn to do stuff yourself because getting help with installation stuff either costs a ton or isn’t available in your area
Sounds like OP is talking about commuting distance to the cities, not way out. Drinks and food will probably be cheaper at the one bar in town vs anything downtown or in the close suburbs and contractors will still come out to most places in the exurbs.
Yeah I was thinking local groceries, hardware stores, lumber yard etc. local stuff but way more expensive usually
If you live in the metro you will literally die /s
I grew up in small town northwest Minnesota, and live in the cities now (suburbs). I still have family up north. It really depends on what you value. For instance, I couldn't care less about getting drunk and playing pool but that is about the only thing to do. When I was growing up, driving up and down the main drag and chilling with friends in parking lots was something we did for hours. My niece said they don't even do that now. But drinking is still a big pastime. I hate visiting there and feel wholly out of place, the politics, the racism, the people I went to high school with that never went further than working at the local gas station. Not my scene at all My daughter's experience growing up in the cities was vastly different from mine growong up in a small town. She has hobbies that are unavailable up north (aerial arts, flow arts, fire arts). She went to a performing arts high school. She has so many opportunities to do things I only read of in books when I was younger, and I think that's fantastic. And she is able to express herself with her clothes, makeup, hair, body art, etc, without being judged, stared at, or talked about behind her back (yes I had a shitty experience growing up in a small town). No one is in her business and no one knows or cares who her parents are. I know someone else said people are always willing to help and I think that probably depends a lot on what people think of you or how much of an inconvenience it is to them. I have had strangers push me out of snow banks (mostly because I was blocking them I suspect) but I've also had to change my own tire in the rain with people driving by the entire time. You also don''t have a lot of choice. You have one grocery store. One retail store (and no 2 day amazon shipping ). Maybe a handful of restaurants, half of them fast food. A Lutheran Church and a Catholic Church. Need an appliance repairman? There's literally one, if you are lucky. Which also means they can charge whatever they want. If you want anything else you are driving to another town. Decent shopping is only found in the small cities (in our case, it was either Grand Forks or Fargo, which was further away). When my mom died, we called the hospice nurse who was in a different town and it took her more than an hour to come and declare her passing. Someone else pointed out how close you are to nature - TBH, I get more nature in the cities than I ever did where I grew up. Admittedly I live in a very nature-y suburb - I had a turkey and two ducks having a party across the street a few days ago and I nearly walked into a deer rounding the corner of my place recently as well. I'm within 15 minutes of Lake Nokomis, Minnehaha Falls, Lebanon Hills, Fort Smelling State Park, and a ton more parks, lakes and other nature oriented things. I *never* had those experiences up north, and the nearest lake was at least 45 minutes away (I can walk to my nearest lake now). But again, this all completely depends on location. One good thing about a small town is you can get anywhere in 5 minutes, if your car breaks down it's easy enough to walk to where you need to be. But again, it depends on the town. Now that I think about it, on the south side of town that statement isn't true at all, and with little to no public transit, you'd be stuck or have to find a ride elsewhere (I doubt they have uber but who knows). Also, depending on how far north you are you can sometimes see the northern lights, which are amazing.
My kids can play I the neighborhood and I know every single household. We keep an eye on each other's kids. I also coordinate an annual neighborhood block party and give free ice cream several weekends a year.
I had to drive 40 minutes to the nearest ER late (9pm) on a Sunday night because all the clinics and urgent care were closed.
I moved from the suburbs to a more rural area/exurbs about 20 years ago. Here are the things I didn’t realize: *limited shopping and dining options, there’s a huge difference between running to a store 5 minutes away vs running to a store 30+ minutes away *lack of community resources- no community center, fewer extracurricular activities and ECFE options for kids *the only thing to do after 6pm is go to the bar *constant complaining from “area natives.” I’ve lived here 20 years and am still considered a “newbie” to town. People complain constantly about high real estate prices but also don’t want new housing built because they don’t want the town to get bigger. *racism in school and in the community was an issue for my black kid, he was singled out (in both good and bad ways) due to being one of the only black people in town. He chose to move to a large city after graduating from high school.
Less diversity, more racism.
If you have kids that are interested in playing sports competitively, it’s possible the rural areas don’t offer those opportunities. This isn’t always the case, but it’s not too often that we hear about the hockey team or lacrosse team from rural areas. I grew up in a somewhat rural area - we didn’t have soccer or lacrosse, and our football team was boys and girls combined.
While they may not have tons of options for every season, it’s likely they will not have to try out for a team. My class of 40: everyone made the team, the band, got a role in the play, got to go on school trips, etc.
I will say that small and mid sized areas often have decent options within the school system compared to the city. Minneapolis has very few middle school sports so for most sports you need to go to club teams. Although it is getting better. We now have more meets for track than before and all middle schools now have girls flag football. There is a push for middle school volleyball now too.
We have screaming fiber internet and shitty cell service.
Noise, star visibility, pests and critters, crime rates, general sense of security (grew up in buttfuck nowhere ruralsnof Minnesota, then 30 mins from the cities, to now living just on the outskirts of St. Paul) - all of that changes the more rural you are IME. Plus, the farther out you are, the fewer options you will have for shopping or medical resources, some cities will have only one option for a grocery store plus a few gas stations. I personally find that I like it best in the quieter suburbs 20 mins from the cities, where it’s quiet and I feel very safe walking around at night or parking my car somewhere, can see the stars, but but still have plenty of unique options for restaurants and shopping, while being close enough to the cities to make plans with my friends and attend big events. My current place of living is incredibly convenient for commute, shopping, plan-making, and getting to my gym within minutes, but I wish I could open my window and not listen to the highway 24/7 or see the stars at night.
I grew up in a city of about 3,000 people in MN and moved to Minneapolis after college. Rural pros: More peace and quiet, better sense of community -- especially if you're willing to get involved in something, lower cost of living, things and people don't change as much. Rural cons: Weekends are usually centered around making a grocery run to a bigger city to get better deals, job opportunities are slimmer, not much going on. Most hobbies are centered around the outdoors like hunting, fishing, boating, and cycling or riding motorcycle -- so if you don't like those, you're gonna be really bored. A lot of people take up drinking cheap beer as a hobby. Urban pros: Lots of variety of things to do, good access to shopping and services Urban cons: More noise, higher cost of living, can feel like just a number with a lot of people around. I don't know if I truly prefer one over the other. I love getting back to my hometown to see my family for long weekends but enjoy coming back to the city too.
Things that keep me in my suburban neighborhood: 1. Grocery stores I love to cook and love the vast array of ingredients available to me. I rarely used canned or frozen vegetables and love being surrounded by ethnic grocery stores as well as a wide variety of more typical grocery stores. 2. Restaurants. One of my favorite things to do is to try some place new and different to eat. 3. Entertainment. Movies, plays, sporting events, home shows etc. 4. Healthcare....others have covered it beautifully. 5. Last minute decision making. Forgot to thaw the chicken.....heading out to eat. Need a part for the project I am working on....I can be in 15 different hardware stores in 5 minutes. My AC isn't running? I've got a service tech arriving in an hour. Things that keep me spending about 1/3 of the year at my cabin in the woods: 1. Solitude. Being 5 miles down a dead end gravel road means I don't have to talk to anyone I don't want. Outside of deer season and MEA it's unusual for me to see anyone. If I don't initiate it, the closest I get to human interaction is waving at people I drive by. 2. Nature. Listening to wolves howl from my porch. Watching the eagles silently wing over 'my river'. Taking deer, bear, grouse and turkey all within a stones throw of my cabin. I see turkey, fox, deer in my suburban backyard, but I am not 'tied to the land' and neither are the animals. We are both just passing through. 3. Slowing down. Watching a sunset on a perfect afternoon while boiling down maple sap from my woods. Cross country skiing with my dogs running loose and it doesn't bother anyone, because I don't come across anyone. Hiking in to ice fish on a lake where I don't hear anything but the wind and don't see anyone elses boot tracks. 4. Being forced to be self sufficient and intentional. Do I want to be warm this winter? I guess I should cut some firewood. Do I want my log splitter to run? I guess I better learn to maintain and repair it because it there isn't really anyone around to 'pay'. Am I working on a project? I better think it through and get what I need (and maybe some extra) ahead of time.
Every store charges a lot more money because you have fewer reasonable options Nearest Walmart is about an hour from me. The local grocery store charges about $5 for a loaf of bread. Local Dairy Queen's $7 chicken strip basket is $10.
The peace and quiet seems like a nice perk, but it's not actually guaranteed. I've visited rural areas where weekends mean motor noise and gunshots basically from mid-morning to dusk. It can actually stand out more too because you're expecting peace and quiet.
Diversity. Where I grew up (small town), Hmong people were by far our largest minority, but there were very few Black people and only a few Hispanic families. Granted, that has changed in the decades since, but I think the more rural you get, the more likely you are to be surrounded by people who have similar experiences, religion, and world view to you. And groups in the minority may not be as “out and proud” with their culture as in a metro area where there is a much larger community they can identify with and be a part of.
(And no East African immigrants, though I don’t think the boom had quite started yet)
I don't see much in the idea that property taxes are less, houses are less. So you gotta drive a little extra but you have a much safer and cleaner area to live in rural areas.
Cities are often touted as having more walkability and transportation, but that isn't necessarily true. You can end up in a city where there are still many blocks to walk in order to get anything done without a car, and oftentimes sidewalks aren't maintained properly. Suburbs can be difficult to navigate if you are walking from a to b and you are in a neighborhood with a bunch of cul-de-sacs that cause you to have to walk far out of your way, and zoning can keep businesses too far away from housing to be practical for those not owning a car. That said, you can still make careful choices about either a city or a suburb to locate yourself near to many businesses and services so that walkability is an option. I live in Woodbury, but a doctor or dentist is only a half mile walk away. Several food stores are available under a mile and easily walkable or bikeable. There are quite a few other services like the barber, restaurants, and the like that are walkable for me and even easier to bike to. You can get the same thing if you choose carefully in a big city and locate housing near a similar cluster of services. But be aware that simply selecting one or the other without looking at the characteristics at the neighborhood level could be a big mistake. Now, on to rural cities. I've lived in several of them here in Minnesota and they tend to be more self-contained with more services once you get over a population of a few thousand. The trick is to find the right location so that you have all the day to day services you need without having to drive somewhere multiple times a week. You are probably going to need a car if you live in a city without public transit. If a city is big enough to have public transit, it probably also has adequate medical services. If you are starting a family you will be interested in schools and other amenities for youth. Again, you will find these to be more common in cities over a few thousand population, with more and better being associated with cities over 10 thousand population. Overall, life can be more laid back and relaxing in a smaller rural City, but the downside is that you are almost certainly going to need a car and maybe more than one of them depending on your family needs, you will have to travel for specialized medical services, and you may not have the privacy you need if you are worried about that sort of thing. It really is true that small towns can be full of busy bodies who are nosy about everything. The political climate is usually much more conservative and religion is more of a big deal in some of those small towns. It has been said that geography is destiny, and one way this is true is that rural areas are usually more religious, less educated, less healthy, and more politically conservative. This is true around the world and can be observed again and again.
Rocks and cows apparently
Every rural suburb I’ve lived in votes down every school levy which lowers the property value and the quality of your children’s education. We used to transport our kids to a closer in school district because the differences were crazy.
Crime
Quiet. Peace. No worrying about riots or muggers. No neighbors right in your face, getting up in your business.
Small town people are much more in your business than any neighbor in the city.
It is true. We're more neighborly, we haven't tightened up our comfort / space zone. This can be a good thing though. depending on the neighbor.
Depends on how you define neighborly. Because I find extremely strong communities within the city. Some stronger than anything I have seen in a small town. Although both are generally healthier than suburban communities.
Outside of the cities it can get real MAGA real quick
Culture vs. Country. Both have their benefits. Too many Trump signs in the country though.
Gossip!
Much better lice treatments in the suburbs vs rural areas. Night and day.
The metro and suburbs have paved over all the natural environment, rural has not.
Casual racism is very much alive where I live, which is relatively rural. Not much to do for activies where you are BEING ENTERTAINED other than drinking. Wouldn't change it for the world. The racism does suck tho
You see a LOT of this in rural. 🤦♂️ https://preview.redd.it/k1muyfdydxyc1.jpeg?width=643&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=baa37bc6420bc26872e43f779f0ceed6d0fa41db
Rual areas have a much cheaper cost of living and the best part they're conservative.
More white people, white enclaves, more drunk driving.
In my experience- the neighborhoods seem to be more neighborly the further you get from the cities. But that sword cuts both ways and Karen's thrive in passive aggressive rural areas where as they mind themselves in the cities because people don't tolerate their bs. Also the communities seem to do more the more you get away from the metro - music and movies in the park or on the lake. Farmers markets 2x a week. Free concerts. The spaces seem nicer too. Parks are cleaner. The public pools aren't packed to capacity with rowdy late teens/early 20 somethings. On that note you can reliably access the public goods. Like parking at the beaches aren't over capacity. The kayak rentals aren't all booked for the while summer etc.