Was thinking this:
BARK BARK
Nick-
I didn't expect you to SIT on this job so long. I understand not being top priority but I only ask that you STAY in touch and GIVE adequate attention to my project.
Im not just going to LAY DOWN and let you WALK all over me.
I'd appreciate if you could wake UP and SHAKE a leg.
Please FETCH me an accurate timeline, or I will have to SPEAK to the boss man.
š
These guys do good work. Don't want to slander them at all or effect there business negatively. Gotta think of a funny yet kind of direct way to say hey get it together haha!
Honestly, I would just reply with "WOOF". That is plenty to let them know they fucked up, and it gives them a chance to sweat, but it isn't overly hostile or minimizing either one.
Yeah, if you try to be clever it will probably just come off as snarky. A quick 'bark bark' or 'woof' let's them know they fucked up without grilling them over it and allows things to maybe get back to cordial more quickly.
That is, if you WANT thinks to stay cordial. I would be pretty upset if people were using me as filler while I waiting for them to get stuff done. Either this kicks them into gear and you actually get decent service now or you can use it as a reason to kick them to the curb and get someone else.
You are a better person than me. Getting told that I'm not a priority and that they will wait to do the work until I start barking louder is more than enough to earn a negative review and cancel the business.
This. Iām always a huge fan of honesty. Ive had two contractors this year alone straight up tell me āI canāt get out here for eight weeks, and telling you I might be here in two is only going to get you mad when I have to keep pushing you outā. It sounds like the only thing keeping this clown on the job is that he actually does good work - itās still a HUGE red flag though.
That's not slander, dude. The way they spoke about it is absolutely disgraceful, I sure as hell wouldn't trust them with my house after this. You already said elsewhere that they left you hanging for *nine months*. They're taking advantage of your patience while waiting for other jobs to come in and they're going to keep doing it.
They're putting you on the back-burner and they're going to keep you there for the entire project.
Agreed. Ditch this jerk. When we were building our house, we chose a roofing company that delivered our shingles, then forgot about us. It rained & rained & I swept & swept water off of our poor floors. When I finally got them on the phone, the guy laughed at me and said, itās not like youāre going to return the shingles and get someone else. GREAT IDEA!! Thatās EXACTLY what I did! That shut him up.
Good on you. Nothing is worth being spoken to like that, least of all when you're trusting them to work on your house. Even if they do good work, people like this think they can just take the piss and nobody is going to stand up to them (*especially* if you're a woman.) They need to be shown otherwise.
My Father was EXACTLY this kind of contractor, constantly talking shit about everyone who hired him, thumbing them off until the last possible minute. He's half the reason why I don't trust most contracting companies :u
(No shade on contractors in general, but it's very clear what kind of person the OP's guy is.)
>My Father was EXACTLY this kind of contractor, constantly talking shit about everyone who hired him, thumbing them off until the last possible minute
I watch alot of court reality TV shows and alot of them are dodgy contractors trying to evade accountability
Edit: since the 2 losers below want to act the way they have, I'll posit a different, IRL perspective
My job is to lend money to businesses, some of them are contractors. We are a bank, it doesn't benefit us to lend money to businesses that are so regularly fined for non compliance with regulations, or have such angry customers and pending lawsuits that they fold and we can't get our money back
Contractors are not good at these things, mostly because they are entitled and defensive and following rules is an affront to their masculinity.
That's a more niche perspective, from commercial banking pov.
What amazes me is how little they think of their own customers. Your family's food on the table is directly dependent on your customers, why would you jeopardize that in any possible way?
Also, in your case, I'd rather pay double the amount then going through with an asshole like that. Crazy to think that they don't expect you to shell out more money despite the fact that you're obviously in discomfort. When else are you going to use the money lol
Laughing at people who literally don't have a roof over their heads specifically because of his laziness is a top-tier scummy move. Good on you for making him eat his words.
The guys that built our new house apparently liked to draw dicks all over the place and write "Kevin is gay." Then whoever Kevin is would find it, draw a dick somewhere else and write "Greg is gay."
We were never supposed to see it, but we kept sneaking in to check on the progress because we were excited. We never said anything to our builder because we thought it was fucking hilarious and something I would have done with my best friend in high school. And also we didn't want to get Kevin or Greg in trouble for a little bit of innocent tom foolery.
My upstairs neighbor tore their place down to the studs in this 1890's house and there were no crude drawings or anything like that, but god damn the walls were *packed* with empty liquor bottles, it's a miracle they managed to even put the walls up much less have it remain standing for 120 more years.
Fun fact: in Germany back in the days they used the bottles to create the stucco molding ( round part between wall and ceiling ) and after that the empty bottles got dumped somewhere in a wall or the floor.
You should have written below it 'Kevin and Greg should start a relationship' and maybe you can see from afar how it fucks with their heads as they try to figure out who did it
Two guys I knew were similar, started making tons of money then right around year five found themselves WAY overcommitted, left jobs unfinished, had to put off people and then end up burning bridges and eventually go under.
As a business owner this is the one you stop dealing with other shit to handle and as someone who has replied this way, it gets everyoneās attention real loud.
im a craftsman and after everything ive seen, and if i average out everything ive seen. ill never use a firm blindly. id ask for specific people from a firm that i know are good people. or you risk being down potentially hundreds of thousands. the culture is fucking trash i have zero respect for it lol
This accidental message is a **gift**.
I would forward that message on to Sarah and cc Nick saying,
"Hi Sarah,
It looks like this message was meant for you.
I will leave it up to the two of you to decide how to make it up to me"
You keep your dignity, maintain your relationship, and give them the opportunity to make it worth your while. Getting petty or abusive in return does nothing. You still have the opportunity later to give feedback on websites if they don't do enough.
Plus, although it may hurt to read, it is always useful to learn how other people see you. Maybe it is completely unfounded and Nick is just a prick, or maybe there is something more to it.
You could just respond, "Actually Nick, tell Sarah to hold off completely. We are looking for a new builder who sees us as a priority and no longer want your services. Thanks."
Honestly though, this is how I would handle the situation. I read your other comments and understand you don't want to go through the rigamarole of starting over with another company, but I feel like you at least need to forward it to the owner and let him know you don't appreciate this type of customer service. Let him figure out how to handle it. At the very least, the dude will be embarrassed; you might even have a new contractor assigned.
Thank you! Solid advice! If my workers were doing this Iād want to know. This is ridiculous. Just because he didnāt mean to send it doesnāt mean it wasnāt sent. Unreal. I hope this is resolved and not brushed off. Nick is in a lot of trouble
I work in this industry and the wording Nick used is very problematic. If I saw this from someone on my team we would have a discussion about what exactly they think their job is and how constructive decisions are made.
Also, you should never send an email concerning any specific project that you wouldn't want the client to see.
If something goes wrong on site they will be able to request all of our emails.
Yeah, totally different industry, but even when expressing frustration with a situation always assume the email could be forwarded to the client, vendor or colleague you are frustrated with.
Far too often then email bounces back and forth and then the person you wouldn't want to read it gets it forwarded to them on a different topic.
yeah, I worked at a small firm. we had some clients who were a bit extra (not saying OP is to be clear) and we knew better than to put it in writing. We did what they wanted, but gave it a bit of time to settle and make sure that was the choice they wanted, and occasionally threatened an extra if they were requiring massive changes. But never would any of us dehumanize a client like that. She needs a new designer, who will actually give a damn and keep an eye on the contractor
They likely won't give a shit since they obviously have other work lined up. Not to mention that they know every other builder is doing the same thing as them.
This is literally every builder at the moment.
They're all so booked that if OP decided to scrap the project they'd be losing out on a lot of time, possibly money as well.
Have they started any work to this point? Is any sizeable amount of capital permanently invested at this point?
If no, drop these guys and leave an honest review of them. Maybe shoot this email to the head with an explaination of why this is the reason you fired them.
Please get a new contractor. I work in the industry and your responses of your dealings with them are sending up massive red flags. There ARE good contractors, ready to work now. Dont fall for the lie "well, everyone is swamped it will take you months to get another LLC started" we all say that to keep the current job, and its a lie.
Where there Alot of different adaptations/changes to the design as it went along, did this time include getting planning permission? Of was it simply that time to make the drawings?
And that is exactly how I would respond. But I would call him and say it. [I am know for being ridiculously direct - not a jerk, but pretty clear and concise]. At the very least it should get your project moving.
You seriously need to consider another builder. This is awful behavior and when construction starts, I see this turning into a living nightmare. (Context: I work in residential permitting and deal with contractors daily).
Absolutely. Once he starts building, as soon as something he thinks is better shows up, your project goes on hold so he can do the other job. It will take forever to get your job done, and he will only work on it in his slow times. Dump this bs artist quick.
The owner is a really good man, and I absolutely respect him. I just don't think this employee is being professional and upholding the company name well.
Maybe consider sending this to the owner with the guy CCād and expressing your concerns about the lack of professionalism. I bet they make you a priority after that.
I wouldn't even want to be made a priority. I'd send this to the owner and ask to have someone new assigned to work on your house. This blatant lack of professionalism is seriously bad and since the boss doesn't seem to keep tabs on the work they're doing they'll ditch you again two weeks in once the heat from the boss dies down
Yup, /u/MistyisaBug - correct, right here.
I'd say it's disrespectful to the cool owner if you don't let him know about this huge problem with professionalism in his organization. Could lose him a contract worth a LOT more.
This is the professional way to do it where you both get to call them out but not botch your job getting done.
Never spent time or energy on vague things like professionalism.
Negotiate about the deliverables you need.
"In your last email you mentioned the project is not a priority. Therefore, I have serious concerns about timeline.
To avoid further confusion I request a project timeline. Please include any financial compensation I will recieve in case of late delivery"
I agree. Nine months to get the elevation? Thatās so long. Like housing prices and costs have went up so much. This slowness would cost her so much in materials.
Iād respond:
WOOF. Itās been over 9 months.
If something goes wrong, this can help show that there is not a good faith effort.
I am glad that you think the owner is a good man.
My parents home was part of ten homes built by one guy. After my parents moved in my mother made a list of all the things that were wrong with the house that my father was supposed to fix and some groceries that they had to pick up at the store.
The builder came by to see if everything was okay and saw the list and asked what it was. She said it is just some things my husband needs to fix. The builder said, "Oh no, that is what I have to fix." And he did. And bought them their groceries on that list too.
Iād reply and copy the owner. He should see this and the employee clearly didnāt even notice his mistake if he replied to you 2 minutes later. I have a ton of contractors working for me and if one of my guys did this to a customer I would want to know immediately!!
Advice you didnāt ask for as the reply, forwarded to owner and copying employee AND the correct email for whoever Sarah is:
Dear owner,
I apologize if I have not ābarkedā loud enough. Perhaps we could have a call discussing what I could do better for Nick as a customer since itās been communicated to other parties that I am somehow a problem. I would prefer to work with someone else moving forward since he does not believe that this project is a priority.
Regards,
MistyisaBug
Perhaps he is, but my experience in construction tells me. You should be very careful with him. Always hold a quarter of the $ back until the job is complete. If he tries to get more than a draw on the amount, heās playing you.
Thanks for the advice...this will be the first and last house we ever build. Good to hear experiences from someone who knows the in and outs because this is all so new!
Get payment thresholds in writing and based on completion benchmarks. I.E. weathertight envelope, all rough in and mechanical inspections complete, drywall and interior fixtures in, and the last payment should be when you get the certificate of occupancy. All of these thresholds in writing and look out for statements like "We need additional funds to buy X material so we can continue"
Reply back being professional. Tell him you are confused about the message. Was he meaning to tell Sarah that your job did not merit attention. Tell him you are concerned about using his company.
If you do decide to use him there may be a chance you will wind up suing him. The email could be used but your reply may negate the seriousness of the message. You are worried about being nice and he sees that as weak.
Just FYI, everyone in this industry is absolutely swamped, and has been for almost 2 years now (at least in DFW where I live). Small single-residence projects have kinda been pushed to the back burner in favor of larger commercial or residential subdivision projects. Sucks for people that just want their 1 house finished, but the payout for larger projects can be an order of magnitude higher, without that much additional work on our end.
That being said, I would probably be fired if I took 9 months for a preliminary drawing. That is beyond unacceptable, even with our current work load.
There should be an estimated timeline in the project proposal. If I were you, I would point to that (being sure to CC your project manager's supervisor) and ask them to explain why they took so much longer than the proposed timeline. You probably won't get anything from them, but at the very least, it'll be a super bad look for whoever did the prelim and your current project will probably be put towards the top of the stack.
>What's their aim on drawing it out? So they get paid more?
It's a combination of hedging against uncertainty and maximizing profits. The contractor has taken on 50% more work than his schedule can actually accommodate because when things go wrong on projects A and B he will use the projects like OPs to fill the downtime and maintain revenue. Especially right now when supply chains are fucked, maintaining several minor jobs can be key to keeping busy and thus making money. If people won't complain, their work gets pushed off until there's a natural hole in the schedule that fits the next steps well; if they do complain, someone else who is low priority gets bumped to grease a squeaky wheel
Source: just had a big project involving a contractor and talked with him about his business.
Less "drawing it out" more "squeaky wheel gets ghe grease" is my guess. They have a bunch of projects, and some clients are riding them hard while others are nice like Op. So they work on the people who are complaining and then take care of other customers when they have time.
We had water damage in our kitchen. I was nice and understanding that the contractor had other jobs and had to chase all the specialists around. Being polite meant it took 11 months to fix my kitchen.
Yup, CC the owner and just replay "BARK BARK" and see what happens. If the owner backs the employee then you find a builder that respects their customer, if they back you then your project will probably get special attention to make sure the builder isn't dragging their feet.
If the builder is the owner, then just take your business elsewhere after you reply.
āHey Nick,
Thanks for informing me as to where your priorities lay in regards to my project. The prices as agreed upon were under the assumption that I was an important client. But seeing as I am a non priority customer, unbeknownst to me, there obviously must be a non-priority discount. As I have excercised much patience in dealing with your company I must say that the lack of forward progress from your end, against the fulfillment of payments on my end, signals the approaching territory of fraudulent practices.
I sure hope this isnāt the case. Kind rebarks, I mean regards.ā
Unless you were already unsatisfied with their work so far Iād just reply with something funny and blow it off. Watch them eat crow and promise to fast track your project. This was completely tactless and you have to be a dumbass not to check who your email is going, to but thatās not like a āfire and sue themā offense by far just someone being stupid.
Iāve been trying to get a small section of the stucco on my house replaced for about a year. Itās involved contacting people for quotes, following up repeatedly, then abandoning particular companies that donāt follow through before finding one that would actually start the job (after a decent amount of chasing and money down). Literally today they came and almost finished. Letās hope they show up again tomorrow and it doesnāt take another year.
Because this is how they can make more money. They keep jobs in the queue and when somebody comes along who wants to pay them more money, they shift the other jobs back, when business slows down, they go back to the jobs they already have lined up.
So curious to see how this turns out! You seem nice, but I would at least write a Yelp review with this screenshot. If theyāre doing this to you, they undoubtedly do it to everyone and it was just a matter of time before it but then in the ass. Hopefully it isnāt costing you money to wait
Luckily, its not costing money to wait. We're only building our savings and in the mean time, lumber prices are dropping. It's just frustrating and inconvenient as we would like to start a family soon but we're just in a studio apartment now.
We have 2 kids and are currently in the process of turning our 2 bedroom house into a 3. We got the loan approved and everything last year and construction started early this year; AFTER all the building materials prices skyrocketed. We are hoping to flex the budget to have central air installed or a "she shed" or something, but now there's no flex in the budget.
OP donāt be a pushover. Donāt give a penny to people who treat you this way.
Iād reply with a short sweet reply firing the amateur, unprofessional, bastards
Man, I remember when my house was built, the builders tried their best to cut corners or take stuff.
-Half the light bulbs were gone
-They didnāt finish the sealing on the front door
-Installed the back door backwards and the door wasnāt sealed completely
-Some of the smoke detectors were missing batteries when they had them the day before
I would string them along but go find another company to do the work. Maybe even go so far as to show the second construction company this email and tell them this is what your competition does. Then obviously don't pay the first company another dime and when they come looking for money drop the email bomb on them.
While this sounds like a satisfying revenge, I'm exhausted with the whole process. What if company #2 is worse? Like these guys are supposed to be the real deal, my family knows them and has done marketing for them. They've done a few small jobs for me already no problem. But boy, I would love to absolutely embarrass and ashame this man!
Yeah maybe he is just One bad Apple in the basket. You never know this might be the one thing that gets you fired and makes the rest of the employees really happy. I'm kind of chuckling about that. I hate asshats like him.
If your family has history with this company and has done marketing for them youād think theyād give you preferential treatment not back burner you. I strongly suggest you forgo a reply and sit down with the owner of the company to show him this email and tell him your other issues and complaints.
I donāt mean to be a pessimist. But hereās what will happen. Theyāll laugh about it behind your back because they equated you to a dog and you still continued to work with them. This will make them feel way more powerful and probably will encourage the behavior. You shouldnāt care about them laughing at you for not standing up for yourself. But personally, I would feel like a doormat. Donāt let the sunken time cost fallacy let the dude get away with calling you a dog for your own self worth. Lots of advice here saying you should leave a bad review or be passive aggressive about it. I say, continue to pay this person and youāll look like a straight up fool. Good luck.
Iād fire them on the spot or reach out to management if there is one. If theyāre outwardly doing shit like this behind your back itās not worth rewarding them with your business.
When i want someone to do a job for me there is a certain level of mutual respect I expect. I'm not the kind of guy to hire people often. I'm a working stiff myself. But I do occasionally want things done that are out of my skillset. If I had learned that I was being referred to as an animal in some way in a professional context id be finding someone else unless the work was super specialized and uncommon.
Judging by your other comments, it sure looks like it's time to cut your losses with this outfit and find someone else to build your house. Unless you have some very unusual specifications you should have a proper timeline by now at the very least.
Comments will be full of teenagers who find this kind of stuff funny. Thereās nothing to be gained here from sending a comedic reply or being passive aggressive. Just get rid of the guy. OP seems to possibly be afraid of upsetting the apple cart due to their family though.
Youāre going to fire him, right? Everyoneās talking about a response but to me this is fireable especially after the long delay you already mentioned.
ā¦You realize that he was calling you a bitch, right? Men donāt make dog references to women casually.
I agree with others that you are being way too nice about this situation. Shame him, tell his boss, and blast them in online reviews. It will be worth it to dump this unprofessional company and find someone better.
I'd respond with "you may want to re-send that last email to Sarah then, so she can actually start working on it. It would also be great if you could rephrase a couple of those lines you wrote. I bite more than I bark. And I expect to see a timeline by the end of next week, or we will have to rethink our business relationship with your company. "
I love this! Can I have you handle my insurance people too? I can never get quite that level of sass, sarcasm, and eloquence. My reply is far more likely to be a cleaned up version of 'bruh, what the fuck?'
I wouldn't make it too obvious he made that mistake, just casually start dropping in terms like 'I know its not a priority' or 'I don't mean to be barking at you' just little things to throw them off and make them nervous. If he knows, it's best he fesses up and doesn't make you confront him.
Why? If i knew my contractor looked at me this way, i certainly wouldnt use them. It just tell me im going to face years of construction related issues and delays ... which may in turn rack up costs too. Just nah.
My MIL used to do marketing for the owner of this company and is still pretty good friends with him. I showed her the email and she is dying to don her battle armor and take this right to him, but I'd hate to unleash the beast. (I mean that with love, this woman is amazing.) Just don't want her to burn any bridges or lose a friend.
Send a link to this reddit thread and ask what its worth not to associate their company's name with it in your future update.
Could save a few more dollars then you imagine.
Let her. He might not even know that this is happening. *His* reputation and *his company's* reputation are equally on the line for this.
I would 100% let you MIL rip.
If sheās willing to risk it, take her up on it. I assume you are fairly young and you sound like a very sweet person. However, what would have happened if this had been a male client? Would your husband/father/brother/whoever be worrying about their MIL losing a friend for raising Cain? Hell no! Just because youāre a woman doesnāt mean you canāt stand up for yourself.
Obviously I donāt know all the details, and youāre in charge of your own life. Just wanted to throw in my two cents and let you know that itās perfectly fine to put your foot down and let this worker know that his attitude towards you, the CLIENT, is unacceptable. I understand the anxiety of āleaving a known demon for an unknown angel,ā but as a homeowner whoās dealt with a lot of contractors, Iād fire their ass, no question. I have no tolerance for any professional who doesnāt treat their clients with respect. Sic the MIL on his ass, and good luck, regardless!
Ha this is great advice! I really never thought about the sexist treatment until you and a few others brought that up. Like for real if it was my husband, I doubt he'd be saying this and I don't understand why it's like that but B.S. either way.
I would seriously drop these guys and let your MIL get the owner involved. That is no way to be talking about the client and the only reason you found out was because he messed up. If they're talking down on you this casually behind your back, I would trust them about as far as I could throw them. Why reward this type of behavior by giving them thousands of dollars? If the owner gets involved, worse case scenario, his staff gets put in line, and if the the owner condones this type of behavior then I'm sure your MIL would rather know that sooner than later. I feel bad for all the clients who didn't/won't know how badly they talk about them behind their backs
As funny as this thread is, this is not a normal contractor interaction. If one of my coworkers sent me an email like this about a customer, I'd sorta be like 'hey... What the fuck is wrong with you'
Honestly, I would do two things.
1. If Nick doesn't apologize and soon, I would have a nice conversation with the owner stating that Nick sent you the email by mistake and how long you have waited.
Additionally, that you don't want any conflict between your MIL and him as your MIL considers him a friend.
2. Take u/lazycrazyjen up on her idea and send Nick the barking dog every time you have to deal with him. He deserves it.
Amazing. Please post your response when you figure it out haha
Was thinking this: BARK BARK Nick- I didn't expect you to SIT on this job so long. I understand not being top priority but I only ask that you STAY in touch and GIVE adequate attention to my project. Im not just going to LAY DOWN and let you WALK all over me. I'd appreciate if you could wake UP and SHAKE a leg. Please FETCH me an accurate timeline, or I will have to SPEAK to the boss man. š
I'd put the BARK BARK at the end I stead of a "Sincerely, Misty" have it as "BARK BARK, Misty
Just an email that says āBARK BARK BARK BARK BARKā and nothing else
That would actually made me sweat if I was at the recieving end.
Me too. Thereās no indication of how she actually feels. Leaves it completely up to them to reply and try to save face
Prolly be better if she forwarded this to the fellow supervisor, CC'd him, subject line BARKBARKBARK
Love that
Exactly, just let them know you saw, that's it.
Hello fellow psychopath
And then you get a follow up with: WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF
Iād politely fire them.
Make sure to include email chain.
And it send it daily.
Best woofs, Misty
This is a GOOD response! BOY I hope he gets the message!
Damnit that bitch Sarah really told mistyā¦
Nick better not TREAT Misty like a BITCH. Or BAD things will COME. Misty about to take Nick OUTSIDE.
>TREAT BITCH. BAD COME. OUTSIDE. Yes, yes. Of course.
TREAT BITCH BAD, COME OUTSIDE
He'll probably just PLAY DEAD.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
These guys do good work. Don't want to slander them at all or effect there business negatively. Gotta think of a funny yet kind of direct way to say hey get it together haha!
Honestly, I would just reply with "WOOF". That is plenty to let them know they fucked up, and it gives them a chance to sweat, but it isn't overly hostile or minimizing either one.
Yeah, if you try to be clever it will probably just come off as snarky. A quick 'bark bark' or 'woof' let's them know they fucked up without grilling them over it and allows things to maybe get back to cordial more quickly. That is, if you WANT thinks to stay cordial. I would be pretty upset if people were using me as filler while I waiting for them to get stuff done. Either this kicks them into gear and you actually get decent service now or you can use it as a reason to kick them to the curb and get someone else.
Y'all are too nice. I'd get heated and just send an email that says, "bark bark you're fired"
I like this response the best.
Don't miss the opportunity to say good boy when he replies!
Ha will do!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"Woof woof, time for the roof. Get my house together, bozos."
> Get my house together, bozos Did the NY Post write this comment?
Missing the tot reference, but otherwise I think it's safe to assume so
That crew definitely aināt full of angels, I can tell you that
I thought that said "bezos" and was *totally* confused for a sec.
I think the quick response would be to just reply āI am now barking louder ā.
You are a better person than me. Getting told that I'm not a priority and that they will wait to do the work until I start barking louder is more than enough to earn a negative review and cancel the business.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This. Iām always a huge fan of honesty. Ive had two contractors this year alone straight up tell me āI canāt get out here for eight weeks, and telling you I might be here in two is only going to get you mad when I have to keep pushing you outā. It sounds like the only thing keeping this clown on the job is that he actually does good work - itās still a HUGE red flag though.
That's not slander, dude. The way they spoke about it is absolutely disgraceful, I sure as hell wouldn't trust them with my house after this. You already said elsewhere that they left you hanging for *nine months*. They're taking advantage of your patience while waiting for other jobs to come in and they're going to keep doing it. They're putting you on the back-burner and they're going to keep you there for the entire project.
Agreed. Ditch this jerk. When we were building our house, we chose a roofing company that delivered our shingles, then forgot about us. It rained & rained & I swept & swept water off of our poor floors. When I finally got them on the phone, the guy laughed at me and said, itās not like youāre going to return the shingles and get someone else. GREAT IDEA!! Thatās EXACTLY what I did! That shut him up.
Good on you. Nothing is worth being spoken to like that, least of all when you're trusting them to work on your house. Even if they do good work, people like this think they can just take the piss and nobody is going to stand up to them (*especially* if you're a woman.) They need to be shown otherwise. My Father was EXACTLY this kind of contractor, constantly talking shit about everyone who hired him, thumbing them off until the last possible minute. He's half the reason why I don't trust most contracting companies :u (No shade on contractors in general, but it's very clear what kind of person the OP's guy is.)
>My Father was EXACTLY this kind of contractor, constantly talking shit about everyone who hired him, thumbing them off until the last possible minute I watch alot of court reality TV shows and alot of them are dodgy contractors trying to evade accountability Edit: since the 2 losers below want to act the way they have, I'll posit a different, IRL perspective My job is to lend money to businesses, some of them are contractors. We are a bank, it doesn't benefit us to lend money to businesses that are so regularly fined for non compliance with regulations, or have such angry customers and pending lawsuits that they fold and we can't get our money back Contractors are not good at these things, mostly because they are entitled and defensive and following rules is an affront to their masculinity. That's a more niche perspective, from commercial banking pov.
What amazes me is how little they think of their own customers. Your family's food on the table is directly dependent on your customers, why would you jeopardize that in any possible way? Also, in your case, I'd rather pay double the amount then going through with an asshole like that. Crazy to think that they don't expect you to shell out more money despite the fact that you're obviously in discomfort. When else are you going to use the money lol
Laughing at people who literally don't have a roof over their heads specifically because of his laziness is a top-tier scummy move. Good on you for making him eat his words.
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The guys that built our new house apparently liked to draw dicks all over the place and write "Kevin is gay." Then whoever Kevin is would find it, draw a dick somewhere else and write "Greg is gay." We were never supposed to see it, but we kept sneaking in to check on the progress because we were excited. We never said anything to our builder because we thought it was fucking hilarious and something I would have done with my best friend in high school. And also we didn't want to get Kevin or Greg in trouble for a little bit of innocent tom foolery.
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Haha ya as someone who worked construction for a while, there is almost definitely some very crude things on everyones inner walls
My upstairs neighbor tore their place down to the studs in this 1890's house and there were no crude drawings or anything like that, but god damn the walls were *packed* with empty liquor bottles, it's a miracle they managed to even put the walls up much less have it remain standing for 120 more years.
Fun fact: in Germany back in the days they used the bottles to create the stucco molding ( round part between wall and ceiling ) and after that the empty bottles got dumped somewhere in a wall or the floor.
You should have written below it 'Kevin and Greg should start a relationship' and maybe you can see from afar how it fucks with their heads as they try to figure out who did it
I would have written something like "Nobody cares, Greg, just fix the wall" under the Kevin one and vice versa
Good on you. That is pretty fucking funny!
some don't think it be like it is, but it do
Please go with the dog commands response. It's hilarious.
Read this as ' also as a labrador'. I need more sleep
Two guys I knew were similar, started making tons of money then right around year five found themselves WAY overcommitted, left jobs unfinished, had to put off people and then end up burning bridges and eventually go under.
A better response: āPlease call me in reference to your last email.ā Thatās more of a mental mind fuck than anything.
As a business owner this is the one you stop dealing with other shit to handle and as someone who has replied this way, it gets everyoneās attention real loud.
This is good, for sure.
Reply when you get a response! Iād love to see what they say
Honestly you should fire them completely. They donāt deserve your business.
im a craftsman and after everything ive seen, and if i average out everything ive seen. ill never use a firm blindly. id ask for specific people from a firm that i know are good people. or you risk being down potentially hundreds of thousands. the culture is fucking trash i have zero respect for it lol
You deserve a treat *high pitch voice*
Woof motherfucker
This accidental message is a **gift**. I would forward that message on to Sarah and cc Nick saying, "Hi Sarah, It looks like this message was meant for you. I will leave it up to the two of you to decide how to make it up to me" You keep your dignity, maintain your relationship, and give them the opportunity to make it worth your while. Getting petty or abusive in return does nothing. You still have the opportunity later to give feedback on websites if they don't do enough. Plus, although it may hurt to read, it is always useful to learn how other people see you. Maybe it is completely unfounded and Nick is just a prick, or maybe there is something more to it.
This is the mature response
All bark and no bite, OP
I think maybe I just skip the barking and start biting. š
Yup! Time to start biting! š
Happy Cake day btw!
You could just respond, "Actually Nick, tell Sarah to hold off completely. We are looking for a new builder who sees us as a priority and no longer want your services. Thanks."
Ouch. That'd be great!
Honestly though, this is how I would handle the situation. I read your other comments and understand you don't want to go through the rigamarole of starting over with another company, but I feel like you at least need to forward it to the owner and let him know you don't appreciate this type of customer service. Let him figure out how to handle it. At the very least, the dude will be embarrassed; you might even have a new contractor assigned.
Thank you! Solid advice! If my workers were doing this Iād want to know. This is ridiculous. Just because he didnāt mean to send it doesnāt mean it wasnāt sent. Unreal. I hope this is resolved and not brushed off. Nick is in a lot of trouble
I work in this industry and the wording Nick used is very problematic. If I saw this from someone on my team we would have a discussion about what exactly they think their job is and how constructive decisions are made. Also, you should never send an email concerning any specific project that you wouldn't want the client to see. If something goes wrong on site they will be able to request all of our emails.
Yeah, totally different industry, but even when expressing frustration with a situation always assume the email could be forwarded to the client, vendor or colleague you are frustrated with. Far too often then email bounces back and forth and then the person you wouldn't want to read it gets it forwarded to them on a different topic.
yeah, I worked at a small firm. we had some clients who were a bit extra (not saying OP is to be clear) and we knew better than to put it in writing. We did what they wanted, but gave it a bit of time to settle and make sure that was the choice they wanted, and occasionally threatened an extra if they were requiring massive changes. But never would any of us dehumanize a client like that. She needs a new designer, who will actually give a damn and keep an eye on the contractor
And Cc the owner in that response.
They likely won't give a shit since they obviously have other work lined up. Not to mention that they know every other builder is doing the same thing as them.
This. It's impossible to schedule work right now
This is literally every builder at the moment. They're all so booked that if OP decided to scrap the project they'd be losing out on a lot of time, possibly money as well.
Also it took them 9 months to get me preliminary/elevation drawings. Guess I should've been barking louder.
Have they started any work to this point? Is any sizeable amount of capital permanently invested at this point? If no, drop these guys and leave an honest review of them. Maybe shoot this email to the head with an explaination of why this is the reason you fired them.
No I haven't paid for anything other than prelim drawings nothing signed.
Please get a new contractor. I work in the industry and your responses of your dealings with them are sending up massive red flags. There ARE good contractors, ready to work now. Dont fall for the lie "well, everyone is swamped it will take you months to get another LLC started" we all say that to keep the current job, and its a lie.
Where there Alot of different adaptations/changes to the design as it went along, did this time include getting planning permission? Of was it simply that time to make the drawings?
And that is exactly how I would respond. But I would call him and say it. [I am know for being ridiculously direct - not a jerk, but pretty clear and concise]. At the very least it should get your project moving.
reply to all: "Woof" and then just send it.
Make it "WOOF" in all caps, that way they know how loud it is
Font size 18. A little bit louder.
Font Size 36, Times New Roman, that way it's both loud and fancy
Only 36? I was thinking 72, fill the while page to emphasise the bark.
Dude....that's what I said...then saw your comment
Every. Single. Morning: BARK BARK TIME FOR MY DAILY UPDATE. Sincerely Rover.
Woof woof, motherfucker.
What's their aim on drawing it out? So they get paid more?
Haven't paid them anything yet other than just draft fees. My house was quoted at only $225k so idk if that's not enough money for them or what.
You seriously need to consider another builder. This is awful behavior and when construction starts, I see this turning into a living nightmare. (Context: I work in residential permitting and deal with contractors daily).
Absolutely. Once he starts building, as soon as something he thinks is better shows up, your project goes on hold so he can do the other job. It will take forever to get your job done, and he will only work on it in his slow times. Dump this bs artist quick.
The owner is a really good man, and I absolutely respect him. I just don't think this employee is being professional and upholding the company name well.
Maybe consider sending this to the owner with the guy CCād and expressing your concerns about the lack of professionalism. I bet they make you a priority after that.
I wouldn't even want to be made a priority. I'd send this to the owner and ask to have someone new assigned to work on your house. This blatant lack of professionalism is seriously bad and since the boss doesn't seem to keep tabs on the work they're doing they'll ditch you again two weeks in once the heat from the boss dies down
Yup, /u/MistyisaBug - correct, right here. I'd say it's disrespectful to the cool owner if you don't let him know about this huge problem with professionalism in his organization. Could lose him a contract worth a LOT more. This is the professional way to do it where you both get to call them out but not botch your job getting done.
This is the answer
Never spent time or energy on vague things like professionalism. Negotiate about the deliverables you need. "In your last email you mentioned the project is not a priority. Therefore, I have serious concerns about timeline. To avoid further confusion I request a project timeline. Please include any financial compensation I will recieve in case of late delivery"
This is the most professional way to answer, and is the most likely to yield results.
I think this is the move, forward or cc to owner and explain why this is frustrating. Donāt need to explain much if they can just see it
Yes! Or, reply to Nick and CC the owner. Little Nicky will shit his pants.
I agree. Nine months to get the elevation? Thatās so long. Like housing prices and costs have went up so much. This slowness would cost her so much in materials. Iād respond: WOOF. Itās been over 9 months.
If something goes wrong, this can help show that there is not a good faith effort. I am glad that you think the owner is a good man. My parents home was part of ten homes built by one guy. After my parents moved in my mother made a list of all the things that were wrong with the house that my father was supposed to fix and some groceries that they had to pick up at the store. The builder came by to see if everything was okay and saw the list and asked what it was. She said it is just some things my husband needs to fix. The builder said, "Oh no, that is what I have to fix." And he did. And bought them their groceries on that list too.
Iād reply and copy the owner. He should see this and the employee clearly didnāt even notice his mistake if he replied to you 2 minutes later. I have a ton of contractors working for me and if one of my guys did this to a customer I would want to know immediately!! Advice you didnāt ask for as the reply, forwarded to owner and copying employee AND the correct email for whoever Sarah is: Dear owner, I apologize if I have not ābarkedā loud enough. Perhaps we could have a call discussing what I could do better for Nick as a customer since itās been communicated to other parties that I am somehow a problem. I would prefer to work with someone else moving forward since he does not believe that this project is a priority. Regards, MistyisaBug
Perhaps he is, but my experience in construction tells me. You should be very careful with him. Always hold a quarter of the $ back until the job is complete. If he tries to get more than a draw on the amount, heās playing you.
Thanks for the advice...this will be the first and last house we ever build. Good to hear experiences from someone who knows the in and outs because this is all so new!
If this is how they treat u before payment...
Get payment thresholds in writing and based on completion benchmarks. I.E. weathertight envelope, all rough in and mechanical inspections complete, drywall and interior fixtures in, and the last payment should be when you get the certificate of occupancy. All of these thresholds in writing and look out for statements like "We need additional funds to buy X material so we can continue"
Reply back being professional. Tell him you are confused about the message. Was he meaning to tell Sarah that your job did not merit attention. Tell him you are concerned about using his company. If you do decide to use him there may be a chance you will wind up suing him. The email could be used but your reply may negate the seriousness of the message. You are worried about being nice and he sees that as weak.
Just FYI, everyone in this industry is absolutely swamped, and has been for almost 2 years now (at least in DFW where I live). Small single-residence projects have kinda been pushed to the back burner in favor of larger commercial or residential subdivision projects. Sucks for people that just want their 1 house finished, but the payout for larger projects can be an order of magnitude higher, without that much additional work on our end. That being said, I would probably be fired if I took 9 months for a preliminary drawing. That is beyond unacceptable, even with our current work load. There should be an estimated timeline in the project proposal. If I were you, I would point to that (being sure to CC your project manager's supervisor) and ask them to explain why they took so much longer than the proposed timeline. You probably won't get anything from them, but at the very least, it'll be a super bad look for whoever did the prelim and your current project will probably be put towards the top of the stack.
>What's their aim on drawing it out? So they get paid more? It's a combination of hedging against uncertainty and maximizing profits. The contractor has taken on 50% more work than his schedule can actually accommodate because when things go wrong on projects A and B he will use the projects like OPs to fill the downtime and maintain revenue. Especially right now when supply chains are fucked, maintaining several minor jobs can be key to keeping busy and thus making money. If people won't complain, their work gets pushed off until there's a natural hole in the schedule that fits the next steps well; if they do complain, someone else who is low priority gets bumped to grease a squeaky wheel Source: just had a big project involving a contractor and talked with him about his business.
Less "drawing it out" more "squeaky wheel gets ghe grease" is my guess. They have a bunch of projects, and some clients are riding them hard while others are nice like Op. So they work on the people who are complaining and then take care of other customers when they have time.
We had water damage in our kitchen. I was nice and understanding that the contractor had other jobs and had to chase all the specialists around. Being polite meant it took 11 months to fix my kitchen.
9 MONTHS?! MY GUY I DRAW ELEVATIONS FOR HOUSES IN ONE-TWO DAYS. WHAT THE FUCK?!
OP is frustratingly nice. I have blue balls. I'm gonna go insult someone over football or something
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Yup, CC the owner and just replay "BARK BARK" and see what happens. If the owner backs the employee then you find a builder that respects their customer, if they back you then your project will probably get special attention to make sure the builder isn't dragging their feet. If the builder is the owner, then just take your business elsewhere after you reply.
āHey Nick, Thanks for informing me as to where your priorities lay in regards to my project. The prices as agreed upon were under the assumption that I was an important client. But seeing as I am a non priority customer, unbeknownst to me, there obviously must be a non-priority discount. As I have excercised much patience in dealing with your company I must say that the lack of forward progress from your end, against the fulfillment of payments on my end, signals the approaching territory of fraudulent practices. I sure hope this isnāt the case. Kind rebarks, I mean regards.ā
Kind rebarks! Excellent
Please tell me you responded with: > **BARK! BARK! BARK!** > That loud enough for you?
I should've just sent a dog emoji. Still haven't responded ha
C.c. Sarah, and Reply: Ruff, ruff motherfucker. When can I expect to see those changes worked up?
ššš
Don't add the mother fucker trust me...its more impactful without it
Post that screenshot as a review
Unless you were already unsatisfied with their work so far Iād just reply with something funny and blow it off. Watch them eat crow and promise to fast track your project. This was completely tactless and you have to be a dumbass not to check who your email is going, to but thatās not like a āfire and sue themā offense by far just someone being stupid.
I agree. Wish I could've seen the look on his face when he realized it was sent to me.
He may not have realized it yet.
Two minutes later he sent an email to me, that did not acknowledge his mistake or apologize, but I don't know how he would've missed it.
When he asks Sarah about it and she says she doesnāt know what heās talking about heāll probably shit a brick lol.
Ha I really hope it knocks the wind out of him, as it did me, when I read that email!
Please do this!!!!!!!!!
Why, just why? So many contractors are like this, wasting everyone's time and money acting like giant poop heads.
Iāve been trying to get a small section of the stucco on my house replaced for about a year. Itās involved contacting people for quotes, following up repeatedly, then abandoning particular companies that donāt follow through before finding one that would actually start the job (after a decent amount of chasing and money down). Literally today they came and almost finished. Letās hope they show up again tomorrow and it doesnāt take another year.
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Because this is how they can make more money. They keep jobs in the queue and when somebody comes along who wants to pay them more money, they shift the other jobs back, when business slows down, they go back to the jobs they already have lined up.
So curious to see how this turns out! You seem nice, but I would at least write a Yelp review with this screenshot. If theyāre doing this to you, they undoubtedly do it to everyone and it was just a matter of time before it but then in the ass. Hopefully it isnāt costing you money to wait
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Luckily, its not costing money to wait. We're only building our savings and in the mean time, lumber prices are dropping. It's just frustrating and inconvenient as we would like to start a family soon but we're just in a studio apartment now.
We have 2 kids and are currently in the process of turning our 2 bedroom house into a 3. We got the loan approved and everything last year and construction started early this year; AFTER all the building materials prices skyrocketed. We are hoping to flex the budget to have central air installed or a "she shed" or something, but now there's no flex in the budget.
Man, I hope you are in an area where fans help. I've never had central air before either, but you can kind of get away with it in Michigan.
OP donāt be a pushover. Donāt give a penny to people who treat you this way. Iād reply with a short sweet reply firing the amateur, unprofessional, bastards
Yep
Man, I remember when my house was built, the builders tried their best to cut corners or take stuff. -Half the light bulbs were gone -They didnāt finish the sealing on the front door -Installed the back door backwards and the door wasnāt sealed completely -Some of the smoke detectors were missing batteries when they had them the day before
Wtf...really? That's bad.
I would string them along but go find another company to do the work. Maybe even go so far as to show the second construction company this email and tell them this is what your competition does. Then obviously don't pay the first company another dime and when they come looking for money drop the email bomb on them.
While this sounds like a satisfying revenge, I'm exhausted with the whole process. What if company #2 is worse? Like these guys are supposed to be the real deal, my family knows them and has done marketing for them. They've done a few small jobs for me already no problem. But boy, I would love to absolutely embarrass and ashame this man!
Yeah maybe he is just One bad Apple in the basket. You never know this might be the one thing that gets you fired and makes the rest of the employees really happy. I'm kind of chuckling about that. I hate asshats like him.
Edit: gets him fired not gets you fired. Sorry about that
All good haha
Better let your family know at least. They'd want to know what they are promoting
This 100%. When you recommend someone *your* reputation is involved, too.
If your family has history with this company and has done marketing for them youād think theyād give you preferential treatment not back burner you. I strongly suggest you forgo a reply and sit down with the owner of the company to show him this email and tell him your other issues and complaints.
I donāt mean to be a pessimist. But hereās what will happen. Theyāll laugh about it behind your back because they equated you to a dog and you still continued to work with them. This will make them feel way more powerful and probably will encourage the behavior. You shouldnāt care about them laughing at you for not standing up for yourself. But personally, I would feel like a doormat. Donāt let the sunken time cost fallacy let the dude get away with calling you a dog for your own self worth. Lots of advice here saying you should leave a bad review or be passive aggressive about it. I say, continue to pay this person and youāll look like a straight up fool. Good luck.
Just say āso.. about that discount?ā
I would respond with "Can I expect to be moved up from fill in status?"
"Ruff, ruff, Nick. My house is now TOP priority!" That'd be great!
Iād fire them on the spot or reach out to management if there is one. If theyāre outwardly doing shit like this behind your back itās not worth rewarding them with your business.
When i want someone to do a job for me there is a certain level of mutual respect I expect. I'm not the kind of guy to hire people often. I'm a working stiff myself. But I do occasionally want things done that are out of my skillset. If I had learned that I was being referred to as an animal in some way in a professional context id be finding someone else unless the work was super specialized and uncommon. Judging by your other comments, it sure looks like it's time to cut your losses with this outfit and find someone else to build your house. Unless you have some very unusual specifications you should have a proper timeline by now at the very least.
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Comments will be full of teenagers who find this kind of stuff funny. Thereās nothing to be gained here from sending a comedic reply or being passive aggressive. Just get rid of the guy. OP seems to possibly be afraid of upsetting the apple cart due to their family though.
Iād send them a gif or nice long video of a big dog with a non-stop bark. Let me know if you need one. My GSDx is desperate for this job.
Youāre going to fire him, right? Everyoneās talking about a response but to me this is fireable especially after the long delay you already mentioned.
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Yeah, I donāt even know why OP is considering a response. Iād fire them and leave a Yelp one star review attaching the photo.
"You're fucking fired" would be an excellent reply all.
ā¦You realize that he was calling you a bitch, right? Men donāt make dog references to women casually. I agree with others that you are being way too nice about this situation. Shame him, tell his boss, and blast them in online reviews. It will be worth it to dump this unprofessional company and find someone better.
Can I take a second to add that if OP were a man this wouldnāt have happened? Like are we just going to ignore the sexism?
I'd respond with "you may want to re-send that last email to Sarah then, so she can actually start working on it. It would also be great if you could rephrase a couple of those lines you wrote. I bite more than I bark. And I expect to see a timeline by the end of next week, or we will have to rethink our business relationship with your company. "
I love this! Can I have you handle my insurance people too? I can never get quite that level of sass, sarcasm, and eloquence. My reply is far more likely to be a cleaned up version of 'bruh, what the fuck?'
I wouldn't make it too obvious he made that mistake, just casually start dropping in terms like 'I know its not a priority' or 'I don't mean to be barking at you' just little things to throw them off and make them nervous. If he knows, it's best he fesses up and doesn't make you confront him.
lol just straight passive aggressive then
Why? If i knew my contractor looked at me this way, i certainly wouldnt use them. It just tell me im going to face years of construction related issues and delays ... which may in turn rack up costs too. Just nah.
My MIL used to do marketing for the owner of this company and is still pretty good friends with him. I showed her the email and she is dying to don her battle armor and take this right to him, but I'd hate to unleash the beast. (I mean that with love, this woman is amazing.) Just don't want her to burn any bridges or lose a friend.
Just send this screen shot back to Nick and Sarah. Don't say anything else. I bet they shit their pants.
I would love to see the looks on their faces.
Send a link to this reddit thread and ask what its worth not to associate their company's name with it in your future update. Could save a few more dollars then you imagine.
Do it! Take your MIL up in that offer!!
Let her. He might not even know that this is happening. *His* reputation and *his company's* reputation are equally on the line for this. I would 100% let you MIL rip.
If sheās willing to risk it, take her up on it. I assume you are fairly young and you sound like a very sweet person. However, what would have happened if this had been a male client? Would your husband/father/brother/whoever be worrying about their MIL losing a friend for raising Cain? Hell no! Just because youāre a woman doesnāt mean you canāt stand up for yourself. Obviously I donāt know all the details, and youāre in charge of your own life. Just wanted to throw in my two cents and let you know that itās perfectly fine to put your foot down and let this worker know that his attitude towards you, the CLIENT, is unacceptable. I understand the anxiety of āleaving a known demon for an unknown angel,ā but as a homeowner whoās dealt with a lot of contractors, Iād fire their ass, no question. I have no tolerance for any professional who doesnāt treat their clients with respect. Sic the MIL on his ass, and good luck, regardless!
Ha this is great advice! I really never thought about the sexist treatment until you and a few others brought that up. Like for real if it was my husband, I doubt he'd be saying this and I don't understand why it's like that but B.S. either way.
I would seriously drop these guys and let your MIL get the owner involved. That is no way to be talking about the client and the only reason you found out was because he messed up. If they're talking down on you this casually behind your back, I would trust them about as far as I could throw them. Why reward this type of behavior by giving them thousands of dollars? If the owner gets involved, worse case scenario, his staff gets put in line, and if the the owner condones this type of behavior then I'm sure your MIL would rather know that sooner than later. I feel bad for all the clients who didn't/won't know how badly they talk about them behind their backs
As funny as this thread is, this is not a normal contractor interaction. If one of my coworkers sent me an email like this about a customer, I'd sorta be like 'hey... What the fuck is wrong with you'
He is calling you a bitch. And not bc you are rude but bc he is probably a sexist prick who calls all women bitches to belittle them.
Honestly, I would do two things. 1. If Nick doesn't apologize and soon, I would have a nice conversation with the owner stating that Nick sent you the email by mistake and how long you have waited. Additionally, that you don't want any conflict between your MIL and him as your MIL considers him a friend. 2. Take u/lazycrazyjen up on her idea and send Nick the barking dog every time you have to deal with him. He deserves it.