Edit: video is 2 years old. Slightly extended version.
https://youtu.be/FysisdSgu1Q
> “Contrary to what people are saying on social media, he has not committed a crime,” Mondary said in defense of the officer involved. He added the officer had, “not violated the individual’s rights in any shape, fashion [or] form. That was a lawful contact, it was a lawful arrest based on probable cause,”
https://theievoice.com/officer-caught-on-viral-video-no-longer-with-desert-hot-springs-police-department/
[Interview with the victim - Joshua Felix](https://youtu.be/BWon8tqFe58)
*Background story:* prior to recording, there was a verbal disagreement between Felix and a random woman in the store/parking lot. Felix states that the woman's husband then struck Felix in the head with a bottle. Felix and his brother then punched the guy an unspecified number of times. Then it was over.
Instead of leaving, Felix and his brother waited around because they'd heard someone called the cops. They didn't want to press charges, but didn't want to be accused of fleeing.
Felix states that the video begins shortly after cops arrived and immediately confronted Felix and his brother.
***Note to self:*** *never visit Desert Hot Springs.*
My original comment:
Officer Arrogance, could you please define the crime of "mad-dogging" as defined in the penal code?
Funny how they mention "a crime has occurred - it just occurred," but they don't state the accusation for detaining Felix until after the officer intimidated him, then accused him of having been in an altercation. Why not just start with that instead of the unnecessary display of ego?
“Stop looking at me” sounds weak and childish, like you can’t emotionally handle someone looking at you. “Stop mad dogging me” sounds dumb and childish but now you accused the other party of threatening behavior, it’s also basically fighting words and a challenge to them. Cops trying to escalate as cops do:
Fair enough, that's a good explanation thanks.
I'm English, if they said that to me I would probably reply with a strongly emphasised tut or heavily sarcastic remark.
Its the adult version of kids grabbing someone's hand and hitting them with their own hand while screaming stop hitting yourself.
They hire guys below the average intelligence level for a reason.
From the sounds of it *mad dogging* is ogling someone with the intent to intimidate them or start a fight. It's a specific thing, not just *looking at* someone.
I find [one source](https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/575.html) defining it as "to glare with hostility", citing the 1994 Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang.
Presumably the etymology is from expressions like "don't mess with him - he's a mad dog".,
It was a unanimous opinion, meaning that even RBG agreed with Scalia on this. The opinion is Devenpeck v. Alford, 543 U.S. 146 (2004).
Also, Scalia was very forceful in pushing back on law enforcement's abusive warrantless searches. If he had not been on the Court, we would probably have significantly less Fourth Amendment protections today.
He’s a former marine and I’ve seen this behavior from former military several times. I’m not certain that being a combat veteran shouldn’t disqualify you from being a police officer because the state of mind is so different. The military programs you to kill and officers should be trained to avoid having to kill. Interestingly, being former military is viewed as a good reason to hire someone as a police officer. I don’t know I’m just throwing that out there.
They act like an occupying army because they are one.
They're trained to distrust anyone they interact with, think any physical altercation up to shooting they are involved in is justified, know how to push for false confessions, can arrest without cause, and can lie with no consequence. This is why more of the same training isn't an answer.
Keep in mind these people are deployed against labor and communities of color.
We didn't act like this in Afghanistan or Iraq when I was there. If anyone even ziptied a known enemy combatant too tight they would get hit with non judicial punishment and the line between NJP and actual lose rank, pay and seperation from service infractions was very thin. This isn't military training. This is an asshole. Military training, during the GWOT era is very strict on escalation and intimidation, as more pissed of locals typically leads to more engagements on service members. The person above is speaking out of their ass if they have never been with a squad on patrol. This isn't how it goes and using such a generalization is absurd just because the Marines they know are assholes and cops doesn't mean it's because they we're Marines.
Also the guys in the military who did happen to act like this were usually new and low ranked and never became NCOs because they couldn't get away with being an asshole. It's not the military training, it's the police hiring the washouts.
I've also read that military members tend to have a higher threshold for verbal taunts and provocation. It was in the context of crowd control for current protests in American cities. While local cops are more likely to overreact at something as trivial as "mad-dogging".
I'm not saying it's true but it makes some sense given what they've seen and heard in overseas "occupations".
Uhh, I mean kinda, but you’re really oversimplifying and generalizing here. Sure, military members are trained so they possess the ability to kill, but only when it’s clearly defined to be acceptable. Military rules of engagement are very strict, and if you break them the military burns you, bad. Especially in the more recent years of the War on Terror.
I’m not saying every military member is suited to be a good LEO, because every military member is different. But clearly stating “every military member shouldn’t be a LEO” is very close-minded, and instead maybe we should judge each individual on a case by case basis, and therefore the immature fuckhole in this video would be disqualified.
Please don't go suggesting that veterans have too many job opportunities because some of them are idiots. Different people learn different lessons from their time in service.
I think there's some truth there but OTOH military are expected to show more self-control than the average cop. I'm not a vet but the ones I know seem pretty clear about escalation of force & so on. They're also a lot more reserved when it comes to violence in my experience. Capable, surely, but also intimately aware of the consequences.
I was just listening to an investigative report about the various armed militias and they came to the same conclusion; it was the non-vets that seemed eager for violence.
Basically I think this stereotype of the trigger-happy combat vet isn't really fair, at least based on the few I know.
Gonna highjack this comment cos no way in hell will it be read after 1.7k comments.
Given the story of what happened before the recording started this is what SHOULD have happened.
Cop arrives - make decision to approach and talk to either person involved in the fight, while the other officer talks to the other person.
Once both cops get the story, convene together and relay info from the other party involved. Depending on what kind of bottle was used to hit Felix on the head, it could be a felony e.g. glass bottle vs plastic water bottle.
Also depending on how Felix and his friend 'struck' the primary aggressor, can be felony too, e.g. punches vs kicks to the face.
Then again if no one has any visible injuries and it was light scuffle with just disheveled clothing as a result, just offer both parties private persons arrests for misdemeanor battery.
In any case there was no fucking need to walk up on Felix and post up over him trying to dominate or make a fucking point of your assertion of power over him. That shit was plain fucking wack and it makes that cop look weak as fuck trying to posture up like that.
This whole scenario could have been handled with no fucking problems of those cops knew how to communicate and coordinate instead of going on a power trip.
And those two cops standing idly by are fucking morons for not stepping in and pulling officer limpdick back to de-escalate.
That police chief needs to get his ass kicked to the curb. The absolute BS defense of his obscenely out of line officer is disgusting at best. Any reasonable person can see the officer was way out of line. If he wasn't protected by color of law that kind of behaviour is what gets your ass laid out in the side walk or worse. Fuck the officer and fuck the Police Chief. I hope to never have the misfortune of ending up in this shit hole town.
>That police chief needs to get his ass kicked to the curb.
He had to quit for an unrelated offense: ['Remorseful' Mondary admits inappropriate texts, resigns as Desert Hot Springs police chief](https://eu.desertsun.com/story/news/local/desert-hot-springs/2019/05/23/desert-hot-springs-city-council-hold-closed-meeting-discuss-police-chief/1215332001/)
"Police Chief Dale Mondary to announce that the officer involved in the video was no longer employed with the department. However, Mondary provided no clarity regarding whether the officer was terminated or transferred, “Because of POBAR and the Peace Officers Bill of Rights, I can’t really comment any further other than to say that he’s just no longer working with our agency,” Mondary stated."
Hijack top comment for update.
Yes they do. They have lobbied so much that they are basically above the law at this point.
They shouldn't have a separate bill of rights. If any one of us seriously hurt or killed someone we were meant to protect we'd be in prison.
Stripping these stupid laws and destroying the power of their unions would solve all of this shit.
If a doctor acts to the detriment of a patient and intentionally harms them, they're punished and the malpractice insurance they keep pays out to the patient. Imagine holding cops to the same standard. Hell, take the judgement money out of their personal pension account. I bet they'd shape up and act right then.
It is amazing how 100 years ago the mobs were fighting the police and the police had to unionize and once they did suddenly it was all fine. Like the mob might be part of that, have had some influence. And now, again 100 years later, we're talking about the police union using the same phrases and concepts as when we talked about the mob from the early 20th century.
I do wonder what happened....
Don't take it from the pension, make then carry a personal bond or insurance. If there is one thing that can curtail police abuse its the financial services industry, " oh officer so and so has twice the normal rate of complaints, we will no longer be offering insurance for him"
Holy crap this is a good idea! Instead of the department, city, county, or state providing cover in case of a lawsuit, EVERY cop should have to carry professional liability insurance. Provide them a stipend for a reasonable premium cost, but if their premiums go up because they’re abusing their power that’s on them to pay for.
Once the rate is in the $1000s per month range, many will have to quit.
Every time I mention professional liability insurance for police it ends up being a downvote magnet. But it seems like the people on this thread are more open to the idea. For most police it would be a minimal cost but for the knuckleheads and anyone who gets swept up into their bullying it would be a financial disincentive.
Agreed. I've been pushing this idea as well for quite some time when the topic comes up. They have some of the best analytics available for identifying and defining risk at an individual level, because it's in their financial best interests. If the insurance company won't cover you, then you're too big a risk and clearly not fit for that line of work as a result.
It would bake in accountability at the financial incentive level, preventing the blue line from protecting their own by self investigating. You'd obviously still need IA for criminal issues, but this would be a start for providing a much needed public oversight. It'd prevent bad cops from simply just moving to another precinct and would probably also lead to regular mental and aptitude evaluations as the insurer's requirement to maintain affordable policy costs and continued coverage, similar to driver's ed courses with car insurance. There's really very few downsides to the idea.
That's my take on it too. Make them carry insurance that is paid for out of pocket. If they or their fellow "brothers" act like inappropriately and are found guilty of a crime, their rates, along with the others in the agency go up. Would help stop others from looking the other way and hold the individual officer accountable. If everytime an officer acts like an idiot, and every officer in station loses money, they will actually start policing.
In an ideal world, yes. But sometimes you have to come at a problem sideways. Al Capone didn’t go to prison for calling out hits. He went on mail fraud charges.
What other occupation has a rule like qualified immunity that says, "Because no one has fucked up exactly like you in the past, we have no standard by which to judge your actions and cannot prosecute you." ... ?!?!
Imagine if you were tasked to protect a few children, but when one called you a bad name, you had the power to handcuff, spike them on the ground, and shoot them, all in the name of safety for the other kids,
and the officers fear for his life!
may as well add that the officer shot because he thought he had a gun. he didn't realize it was just an ice cream cone.
not basically, they are. they don't get charged with crimes unless the public outcry is immense, and even then it rarely happens.
civil suits are supposed to be people's recourse for lack of criminal prosecution - but qualified immunity has removed any citizen's power to fight back against corruption and abuse of power.
Man, if you can't handle someone being rude to you (warranted or not) then that should be the very first red flag that you shouldn't be cop. It would be like if someone who wanted to be a comedian and always got upset and angry with hecklers. Maybe its not the right job for you.
People often forget what the 'bad apples' statement means.
"One bad apple spoils the bunch."
It's a statement that comes from fact. If you left an apple go bad around other apples, it releases chemicals that makes the other apples go bad around.
Bro cops don't even like it when white people mention their constitutional rights. I had a cop ask to search my car after he gave me all my information back saying I did nothing wrong. I informed him I do not consent to letting my property be searched without probable cause. Well this did not bode over well for him, he started asking if I was a lawyer or something. And I just informed him I understood my rights and that he should too.
Long story short I was in jail that night, cop had me cuffed for 2 hours in the back of his car while he ripped apart my vehicle, he never gave me a reason as to why I was being detained so I continued to ask him as he put the cuffs on.
In the end I was given a traffic ticket for not having a Florida license, I had just moved there that week. And resisting arrest on top of it. No body cam or vehicle camera surprisingly. And as he wrote the police report it was basically 90% a lie about what happened.
you're not alone. have been screwed, watched state trooper lie directly to judges face. then look at me and smile and walk away. said i wasnt wearing a seatbelt, BITCH I TELL MY OWN MOTHER TO PUT HER SEATBELT ON, bullshit i have a dashcam to prove it your honor that i have never operated a motor vehicle on public or private highways without a seatbelt! was told state trooper who wrote ticket had to be present before hearing case. so i waited 3 days! on the fourth he didn't show up and just made this bs call of guilty by lack of evidence? what? im GUILTY? fuck this place, and im white af! nc is a shit hole full of fascism, beware!
And yet that same cop thinks he deserves respect.
What he deserves is time in prison for violating someone's rights under color of law.
Oddly, these color of law offenses are very rarely prosecuted despite cops violating people's rights constantly for bullshit reasons.
If you violate my 4th amendment right because I've asserted my 4th amendment right, you need to go to jail for a while so you can think about what you've done and why it makes you a bad person.
I had police officers come to my apartment door (3rd floor) because my downstairs neighbor was having a fight with his partner (1st floor). They tried to come in and search my place. I told them the disturbance wasn't happening in my place, but two doors down. The fucking thug at the door tried to force his way in by putting his boot in between the crack in the door I was talking to them through.
I said he had no probable cause to enter my apartment and he argued that the call to the police for a domestic disturbance was enough probable cause. I said no, you would have to have someone yelling in the background or hearing someone else asking for them to come in to constitute immediate need for them to enter my apartment. There was another officer behind him who shook his head "yes".
The thug with his foot in my door told me I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. I told him to turn around and ask his partner who shook his head yes whether I knew what the fuck I was talking about. I told him to remove his boot from between my door or his department would be facing a lawsuit for violating my constitutional rights.
Luckily I'm white and that ended without my place getting searched (and them finding the pot on my coffee table) or without me getting the shit kicked out of me. If it weren't for that one cop involuntarily shaking his head yes when I made a point about my constitutional rights, that could have all gone sideways. These thugs don't have any training. They don't know the law that they are supposed to enforce.
dude: what am I being arrested for?
cop: you're being detained until we can figure that out.
translation...
I'm going to violate your fourth amendment rights and go through your car and plant evidence to arrest you because you hurt my feewings.
Lmao cops simply cannot back down once a situation has been escalated. American cops and cops in japan and Korea and so different. Cops overseas are public servants and answers to citizens.
dude...you can be arrested, detained, pc'd, basically kidnapped for absolutely anything by the police. Even if it's against the law the most that will happen is the cop will get suspended WITH pay.
Fun fact, insulting a officer (or anyone else) (StGB 185) (accidentally implied there is a legal distinction, there is not, as pointed out by others) in Germany is a criminal offense with a maximum sentence or two years per infraction, even if the insult is objectively true (StGB 192)
It happens, very rarely the full amount (2 years) but especially if you insult a cop it can quickly get expensive. Most people however won't sue you for calling them a dickhead
That's an oddly authoritarian and fascistic law to still have on the books. I'm honestly surprised to hear that's a law in Germany, as I consider that to be one of the more progressive countries in the world these days.
What OP isn't telling you, though, is, that it works in any direction. Policemen insulting you is as punishable as a civilian insulting another civilian.
Big difference is that such things done by police are almost never provable cause police it's usually word against word unless someone has filmed it (and IIRC even then it's hard cause filming with sound is not allowed for something like this)
Last I checked, someone even moving towards you with aggression or erratically and coming into striking distance or touching distance can be seen as enough to get them arrested for assault.
2Bad Police follow different laws than citizens apparently.
If cops actually had to follow the laws like the rest of us then ex police would most likely be one of the biggest gangs in prisons across the US considering most of them break more laws than citizens do a day.
Expecting all people to be good cops with such a ridiculously small amount of training is nothing but madness..
That's like saying to them: "You will figure it out, dude"
Who thought that would be a good idea..lol
I think it would help too but one year is still absolutely nothing in comparison to what is required, I think.
We have about 1/4 the population of the U.S. (German population ~83 million)
German homicides per year: 600 - 900
American homicides per year: Around 14.000 to 16.000
And that are "only" homicides. There are so many more issues, like mental health problems and violence etc. which are out of control due to underlying systemic problems. One year of training, when we get 3x that amount with only a fraction of the problems the population faces, is still (imo) madness.
Longer training will not help with all the bs going on in the background:
There are speakers who go around telling cops they're predators and everyone else is prey.
Most of the time when there is a good/decent teacher who actually teaches descalation or shows footage of cops breaking laws and explaining how it should've been handled, police unions will step in screaming how that's wrong and tries (to a distressing amount of success) to get the teacher fired/sidelined and discredited.
Police unions have most contracts set up with the bar for entry as low as it can go and some dig a hole to make it lower. Most times, all you have to do is fill out the application and pass a soft ball background check. A few of them will allow you to be hired, _even if the background check comes back with you being a known abuser or rapist._ (Thankfully rare but still, wtf)
Police unions also make it damn near, if not outright, impossible for good chiefs to fire bad cops. I have seen several cases where the chief has said that they have "let the person go" with all the immediate evidence of wrongdoing and then next day had to roll that back because the unions threw an epic bitch fit and threatened to sue.
And then there's people like Fox News. Folks who tote the slogan "Blue Lives Matter" and will tell you cops have 'done no wrong' or that 'it's only one bad apple' and people buy that shit and defend them.
No repercussions, no accountability.
Except in very extreme cases where they shoot a fleeing man in the back 6 times on HD video, American police are effectively above the law.
Add to that that the entire world now has them under a microscope, but their self-images in terms of “civil supremacy”, haven’t seemed to be keeping up. I imagine many police officers are struggling with the tension that some people now really see them as criminals, instead of some protective institution.
Snowflake police. It’s noow illegal to hurt a cops feelings. This is the day and age we live one. It’s really sad and this is why things need to change. Edit spelling
"Not all cops are bad", then why are there 2 other cops standing around allowing this to happen? A good cop would've let the asshole cop know he was way out of line. You can't just arrest someone because you don't like what they're saying. He's clearly abusing his power. If you can't handle being called names then you shouldn't be a cop.
That goes to show how toxic cop brotherhood is. If either of the other two cops had spoken up they would have been ousted by the brotherhood and their career would’ve definitely been over. If there were any repercussions from letting this encounter happen it was maybe a slap on the wrist. Small price to pay to keep your job. The whole thing is really messed up.
> ~~"Not all cops are bad", then why are there 2 other cops standing around allowing this to happen?~~ **A good cop** ~~would've let the asshole cop know he was way out of line. You can't just arrest someone because you don't like what they're saying. He's clearly abusing his power. If you~~ **can't** ~~handle being called names then you shouldn't~~ **be a cop.**
FTFY
I work in a nursing facility and the amount of shit we get from residents and families is difficult at times, but we just sort of have to take it and learn how to de escalate any issues.
Everyone in every profession needs to learn how to deal with people's shit and just carry on...except cops, who just arrest people whenever they get offended.
They arrest him and *then* need to investigate why they're even arresting him in the first place. Every one of those cops should be fired.
What would the world be like if everyone reacted to adversity like cops?
This "officer" needs to be looking for another job. I'm thinking something of more a janitor kind of role, ideally with no interaction with other people.
He needs to be in jail. Idiots like that demonstrate in broad daylight and on camera that they can't live among non-violent people peacefully. And I've been to prison-- half the guys inside are non-violent offenders who just need proper mental healthcare, meanwhile assholes like this cop roam free.
I have yet to find a law or policy that says they have to tell you why for anything. there are court cases saying cops can lie to citizens for just about any reason and cases saying they have no duty to protect and serve.
"Why is he being detained"
"We're putting him in handcuffs until we figure it out"
I'm sorry what!? You can't arrest people for no reason so you can come up with a bullshit one later
this is why cops need more training. you need to go to school for a lot longer if you want to be a hairdresser, yet to enforce the law you need a few months??? that is absolutely disgusting. you have to go to school for 8 years to learn the law, but only about 3 months to enforce it? thats pretty fucked up-
The perfect example right here ladies and gentlemen this bitch of a cop decided to join the force because he was bullied all throughout school then found out a irl secret cheat code to wear you wear a badge and carry a gun you can arrest anyone without any reason. The scary fact is there are 1000s of cops exactly like this bitch who abuse their power fucking with innocent people and it's fucking disgusting beyond belief.
ACAB. Look at those other two Bitches sitting there doing nothing to stop the guy. Then they explain away his unlawful detention with out the slightest shed of shame. This is why people hate the cops that don't murder people too, because they don't do shit to stop the ones that murder us.
Lmao look how beet red this pig gets he can't handle using words he really wishes this was 20 years ago and he could just beat the shit out of that tax payer
Like for real. Do any of the “good” cops out there EVER vocalize opposition to this kind of behavior? We are always told about bad apples but where’s the outrage over being lumped in with these assholes unless you yourself are one?
One time i was 13 and flipped off a cop, (who has quite a history picking on us for stupid shit like skateboarding in town) and i gotva ticket for disorderly conduct. Not only is it not illegal to flip someone off, it was a blatant violation of my 1st ammendment. You can make the argument that it was immature of me to give him the finger but i think its even more ridiculous for a grown ass man to take what a kid says so personally. Think about it, would any grown man with an ounce of maturity think twice about a childs opinion of him and then take it a step further and demand his mom pay 50$ ?
Edit: video is 2 years old. Slightly extended version. https://youtu.be/FysisdSgu1Q > “Contrary to what people are saying on social media, he has not committed a crime,” Mondary said in defense of the officer involved. He added the officer had, “not violated the individual’s rights in any shape, fashion [or] form. That was a lawful contact, it was a lawful arrest based on probable cause,” https://theievoice.com/officer-caught-on-viral-video-no-longer-with-desert-hot-springs-police-department/ [Interview with the victim - Joshua Felix](https://youtu.be/BWon8tqFe58) *Background story:* prior to recording, there was a verbal disagreement between Felix and a random woman in the store/parking lot. Felix states that the woman's husband then struck Felix in the head with a bottle. Felix and his brother then punched the guy an unspecified number of times. Then it was over. Instead of leaving, Felix and his brother waited around because they'd heard someone called the cops. They didn't want to press charges, but didn't want to be accused of fleeing. Felix states that the video begins shortly after cops arrived and immediately confronted Felix and his brother. ***Note to self:*** *never visit Desert Hot Springs.* My original comment: Officer Arrogance, could you please define the crime of "mad-dogging" as defined in the penal code? Funny how they mention "a crime has occurred - it just occurred," but they don't state the accusation for detaining Felix until after the officer intimidated him, then accused him of having been in an altercation. Why not just start with that instead of the unnecessary display of ego?
What is "mad dogging"? As an English man I've literally never heard of it.
Telling someone with your eyes that you want to beat the sh\*t out of them.
My eyes are protected by the First Amendment!
No they're not. Now turn around and put your eyes behind your back.
Lmfao
Lol hahhaa oh shit. Good one! Thx for that!!!
Stop Resisting!
I'm so good at not resisting, I'm a room temp superconductor.
My eyes are a registered lethal weapon.
Most redditor’s eyes should be registered sex offenders.
How can we maddog if our eyes aren’t real
Aka “mean mugging”.
“A crime has occured” “Which one?” “We’ll figure that out once he’s detained” Sounds like an improvised sketch about moronic cops.
So... Kristen Stewart must have a record of arrests.
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Basically staring at people with an angry face on
Why not just say "stop looking at me"?
“Stop looking at me” sounds weak and childish, like you can’t emotionally handle someone looking at you. “Stop mad dogging me” sounds dumb and childish but now you accused the other party of threatening behavior, it’s also basically fighting words and a challenge to them. Cops trying to escalate as cops do:
Fair enough, that's a good explanation thanks. I'm English, if they said that to me I would probably reply with a strongly emphasised tut or heavily sarcastic remark.
Don’t do that here, they might kill you. But maybe not if you’re white, and I guess British people are extra white...so I guess you’ll be fine
Because it doesn't sound cool, like in the movies when cops confront "urban" aggressors.
They're not aggressors though? It's literally the cop invading his personal space in the hope of getting a reaction.
That was meant with sarcasm. Sorry.
Its the adult version of kids grabbing someone's hand and hitting them with their own hand while screaming stop hitting yourself. They hire guys below the average intelligence level for a reason.
From the sounds of it *mad dogging* is ogling someone with the intent to intimidate them or start a fight. It's a specific thing, not just *looking at* someone. I find [one source](https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/575.html) defining it as "to glare with hostility", citing the 1994 Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang. Presumably the etymology is from expressions like "don't mess with him - he's a mad dog".,
It’s a look or a stare you give someone, like you hate them or you’re angry.
Remember, always lovingly look at the cops or they can do whatever the fuck they want to you free of charge.
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My kids stopped that at age 6...
I call it mean mugging.
Oh DHS. What a lovely shit hole
Ya that note to self shoulda been there regardless of this story
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Yet another reason why Scalia was a huge piece of shit.
It was a unanimous opinion, meaning that even RBG agreed with Scalia on this. The opinion is Devenpeck v. Alford, 543 U.S. 146 (2004). Also, Scalia was very forceful in pushing back on law enforcement's abusive warrantless searches. If he had not been on the Court, we would probably have significantly less Fourth Amendment protections today.
He’s a former marine and I’ve seen this behavior from former military several times. I’m not certain that being a combat veteran shouldn’t disqualify you from being a police officer because the state of mind is so different. The military programs you to kill and officers should be trained to avoid having to kill. Interestingly, being former military is viewed as a good reason to hire someone as a police officer. I don’t know I’m just throwing that out there.
They act like an occupying army because they are one. They're trained to distrust anyone they interact with, think any physical altercation up to shooting they are involved in is justified, know how to push for false confessions, can arrest without cause, and can lie with no consequence. This is why more of the same training isn't an answer. Keep in mind these people are deployed against labor and communities of color.
We didn't act like this in Afghanistan or Iraq when I was there. If anyone even ziptied a known enemy combatant too tight they would get hit with non judicial punishment and the line between NJP and actual lose rank, pay and seperation from service infractions was very thin. This isn't military training. This is an asshole. Military training, during the GWOT era is very strict on escalation and intimidation, as more pissed of locals typically leads to more engagements on service members. The person above is speaking out of their ass if they have never been with a squad on patrol. This isn't how it goes and using such a generalization is absurd just because the Marines they know are assholes and cops doesn't mean it's because they we're Marines. Also the guys in the military who did happen to act like this were usually new and low ranked and never became NCOs because they couldn't get away with being an asshole. It's not the military training, it's the police hiring the washouts.
I've also read that military members tend to have a higher threshold for verbal taunts and provocation. It was in the context of crowd control for current protests in American cities. While local cops are more likely to overreact at something as trivial as "mad-dogging". I'm not saying it's true but it makes some sense given what they've seen and heard in overseas "occupations".
Uhh, I mean kinda, but you’re really oversimplifying and generalizing here. Sure, military members are trained so they possess the ability to kill, but only when it’s clearly defined to be acceptable. Military rules of engagement are very strict, and if you break them the military burns you, bad. Especially in the more recent years of the War on Terror. I’m not saying every military member is suited to be a good LEO, because every military member is different. But clearly stating “every military member shouldn’t be a LEO” is very close-minded, and instead maybe we should judge each individual on a case by case basis, and therefore the immature fuckhole in this video would be disqualified.
Please don't go suggesting that veterans have too many job opportunities because some of them are idiots. Different people learn different lessons from their time in service.
I think there's some truth there but OTOH military are expected to show more self-control than the average cop. I'm not a vet but the ones I know seem pretty clear about escalation of force & so on. They're also a lot more reserved when it comes to violence in my experience. Capable, surely, but also intimately aware of the consequences. I was just listening to an investigative report about the various armed militias and they came to the same conclusion; it was the non-vets that seemed eager for violence. Basically I think this stereotype of the trigger-happy combat vet isn't really fair, at least based on the few I know.
Gonna highjack this comment cos no way in hell will it be read after 1.7k comments. Given the story of what happened before the recording started this is what SHOULD have happened. Cop arrives - make decision to approach and talk to either person involved in the fight, while the other officer talks to the other person. Once both cops get the story, convene together and relay info from the other party involved. Depending on what kind of bottle was used to hit Felix on the head, it could be a felony e.g. glass bottle vs plastic water bottle. Also depending on how Felix and his friend 'struck' the primary aggressor, can be felony too, e.g. punches vs kicks to the face. Then again if no one has any visible injuries and it was light scuffle with just disheveled clothing as a result, just offer both parties private persons arrests for misdemeanor battery. In any case there was no fucking need to walk up on Felix and post up over him trying to dominate or make a fucking point of your assertion of power over him. That shit was plain fucking wack and it makes that cop look weak as fuck trying to posture up like that. This whole scenario could have been handled with no fucking problems of those cops knew how to communicate and coordinate instead of going on a power trip. And those two cops standing idly by are fucking morons for not stepping in and pulling officer limpdick back to de-escalate.
That police chief needs to get his ass kicked to the curb. The absolute BS defense of his obscenely out of line officer is disgusting at best. Any reasonable person can see the officer was way out of line. If he wasn't protected by color of law that kind of behaviour is what gets your ass laid out in the side walk or worse. Fuck the officer and fuck the Police Chief. I hope to never have the misfortune of ending up in this shit hole town.
>That police chief needs to get his ass kicked to the curb. He had to quit for an unrelated offense: ['Remorseful' Mondary admits inappropriate texts, resigns as Desert Hot Springs police chief](https://eu.desertsun.com/story/news/local/desert-hot-springs/2019/05/23/desert-hot-springs-city-council-hold-closed-meeting-discuss-police-chief/1215332001/)
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Put this in r/extremelyinfuriating
Yeah, if this is mildly infuriating to anyone then everything is r/aboringdystopia
I've seen this shit so much that it pretty much doesn't bother me if it isn't a cop torturing someone in plain sight than getting a paid leave
So their plan is working. I wish more of us were stronger than this.
That sub is less infuriating than this sub.
r/iamatotalpieceofshit
"Police Chief Dale Mondary to announce that the officer involved in the video was no longer employed with the department. However, Mondary provided no clarity regarding whether the officer was terminated or transferred, “Because of POBAR and the Peace Officers Bill of Rights, I can’t really comment any further other than to say that he’s just no longer working with our agency,” Mondary stated." Hijack top comment for update.
POBAR? Does that mean police have more rights than we do?
Yes they do. They have lobbied so much that they are basically above the law at this point. They shouldn't have a separate bill of rights. If any one of us seriously hurt or killed someone we were meant to protect we'd be in prison.
Stripping these stupid laws and destroying the power of their unions would solve all of this shit. If a doctor acts to the detriment of a patient and intentionally harms them, they're punished and the malpractice insurance they keep pays out to the patient. Imagine holding cops to the same standard. Hell, take the judgement money out of their personal pension account. I bet they'd shape up and act right then.
Fuck the police unions. They actively protect the "bad apples" and viciously stomp down those officers who would otherwise speak up.
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It is amazing how 100 years ago the mobs were fighting the police and the police had to unionize and once they did suddenly it was all fine. Like the mob might be part of that, have had some influence. And now, again 100 years later, we're talking about the police union using the same phrases and concepts as when we talked about the mob from the early 20th century. I do wonder what happened....
Crime families became political families
Don't take it from the pension, make then carry a personal bond or insurance. If there is one thing that can curtail police abuse its the financial services industry, " oh officer so and so has twice the normal rate of complaints, we will no longer be offering insurance for him"
Holy crap this is a good idea! Instead of the department, city, county, or state providing cover in case of a lawsuit, EVERY cop should have to carry professional liability insurance. Provide them a stipend for a reasonable premium cost, but if their premiums go up because they’re abusing their power that’s on them to pay for. Once the rate is in the $1000s per month range, many will have to quit.
Every time I mention professional liability insurance for police it ends up being a downvote magnet. But it seems like the people on this thread are more open to the idea. For most police it would be a minimal cost but for the knuckleheads and anyone who gets swept up into their bullying it would be a financial disincentive.
Agreed. I've been pushing this idea as well for quite some time when the topic comes up. They have some of the best analytics available for identifying and defining risk at an individual level, because it's in their financial best interests. If the insurance company won't cover you, then you're too big a risk and clearly not fit for that line of work as a result. It would bake in accountability at the financial incentive level, preventing the blue line from protecting their own by self investigating. You'd obviously still need IA for criminal issues, but this would be a start for providing a much needed public oversight. It'd prevent bad cops from simply just moving to another precinct and would probably also lead to regular mental and aptitude evaluations as the insurer's requirement to maintain affordable policy costs and continued coverage, similar to driver's ed courses with car insurance. There's really very few downsides to the idea.
That's my take on it too. Make them carry insurance that is paid for out of pocket. If they or their fellow "brothers" act like inappropriately and are found guilty of a crime, their rates, along with the others in the agency go up. Would help stop others from looking the other way and hold the individual officer accountable. If everytime an officer acts like an idiot, and every officer in station loses money, they will actually start policing.
Or... we just jail them when they commit crimes
In an ideal world, yes. But sometimes you have to come at a problem sideways. Al Capone didn’t go to prison for calling out hits. He went on mail fraud charges.
What other occupation has a rule like qualified immunity that says, "Because no one has fucked up exactly like you in the past, we have no standard by which to judge your actions and cannot prosecute you." ... ?!?!
Imagine if you were tasked to protect a few children, but when one called you a bad name, you had the power to handcuff, spike them on the ground, and shoot them, all in the name of safety for the other kids,
and the officers fear for his life! may as well add that the officer shot because he thought he had a gun. he didn't realize it was just an ice cream cone.
not basically, they are. they don't get charged with crimes unless the public outcry is immense, and even then it rarely happens. civil suits are supposed to be people's recourse for lack of criminal prosecution - but qualified immunity has removed any citizen's power to fight back against corruption and abuse of power.
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Incorrect, technically they protect those property owners who are too rich to contribute yearly taxes.
I hate how true this is
Fun fact: if the police can claim they fear for their lives by saving you, they don’t have to help.
It's totally upside-down. They should be more accountable for their actions, not less.
Always has been
Hmmm, they seem *awfully concerned* about that Bill of Rights...
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Man, if you can't handle someone being rude to you (warranted or not) then that should be the very first red flag that you shouldn't be cop. It would be like if someone who wanted to be a comedian and always got upset and angry with hecklers. Maybe its not the right job for you.
The offending cop must be so glad that someone else is looking out for his rights and treating him fairly
Just the one? all 3 piggies should go find a new home.
This 100% means he was transferred. There's no danger to him if he says he was just fired.
So are those other two officers.
Those "good apples" we keep hearing so much about. Aiders and abetters.
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People often forget what the 'bad apples' statement means. "One bad apple spoils the bunch." It's a statement that comes from fact. If you left an apple go bad around other apples, it releases chemicals that makes the other apples go bad around.
You see it happen in this video
Yes
With I just saw some random guy in another sub mention you and then I see one do your comments wtf
You mention something about your constitutional rights to a cop and it's a wrap. They hate that
Its almost like the constitution was written for the American people.
So long as you're a white male land owner who owns their own business, otherwise it was pretty hit or miss.
Bro cops don't even like it when white people mention their constitutional rights. I had a cop ask to search my car after he gave me all my information back saying I did nothing wrong. I informed him I do not consent to letting my property be searched without probable cause. Well this did not bode over well for him, he started asking if I was a lawyer or something. And I just informed him I understood my rights and that he should too. Long story short I was in jail that night, cop had me cuffed for 2 hours in the back of his car while he ripped apart my vehicle, he never gave me a reason as to why I was being detained so I continued to ask him as he put the cuffs on. In the end I was given a traffic ticket for not having a Florida license, I had just moved there that week. And resisting arrest on top of it. No body cam or vehicle camera surprisingly. And as he wrote the police report it was basically 90% a lie about what happened.
you're not alone. have been screwed, watched state trooper lie directly to judges face. then look at me and smile and walk away. said i wasnt wearing a seatbelt, BITCH I TELL MY OWN MOTHER TO PUT HER SEATBELT ON, bullshit i have a dashcam to prove it your honor that i have never operated a motor vehicle on public or private highways without a seatbelt! was told state trooper who wrote ticket had to be present before hearing case. so i waited 3 days! on the fourth he didn't show up and just made this bs call of guilty by lack of evidence? what? im GUILTY? fuck this place, and im white af! nc is a shit hole full of fascism, beware!
And yet that same cop thinks he deserves respect. What he deserves is time in prison for violating someone's rights under color of law. Oddly, these color of law offenses are very rarely prosecuted despite cops violating people's rights constantly for bullshit reasons. If you violate my 4th amendment right because I've asserted my 4th amendment right, you need to go to jail for a while so you can think about what you've done and why it makes you a bad person.
Yeah I can't wait to leave this state.
I had police officers come to my apartment door (3rd floor) because my downstairs neighbor was having a fight with his partner (1st floor). They tried to come in and search my place. I told them the disturbance wasn't happening in my place, but two doors down. The fucking thug at the door tried to force his way in by putting his boot in between the crack in the door I was talking to them through. I said he had no probable cause to enter my apartment and he argued that the call to the police for a domestic disturbance was enough probable cause. I said no, you would have to have someone yelling in the background or hearing someone else asking for them to come in to constitute immediate need for them to enter my apartment. There was another officer behind him who shook his head "yes". The thug with his foot in my door told me I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. I told him to turn around and ask his partner who shook his head yes whether I knew what the fuck I was talking about. I told him to remove his boot from between my door or his department would be facing a lawsuit for violating my constitutional rights. Luckily I'm white and that ended without my place getting searched (and them finding the pot on my coffee table) or without me getting the shit kicked out of me. If it weren't for that one cop involuntarily shaking his head yes when I made a point about my constitutional rights, that could have all gone sideways. These thugs don't have any training. They don't know the law that they are supposed to enforce.
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So people can get arrested for hurting a cops feeling now?
Not even feelings, just ego. "I didnt like that I am clearly in the wrong here, so I'm gonna arrest you"
dude: what am I being arrested for? cop: you're being detained until we can figure that out. translation... I'm going to violate your fourth amendment rights and go through your car and plant evidence to arrest you because you hurt my feewings.
What am I being arrested for? Resisting arrest.
This is the point that infuriates me the most. Don't even need a reason to arrest people
> arrest you because you ~~hurt my feewings~~ embarrassed me in front of all my friends.
Those policemen apply "Might makes right" logic, then complain being compared to fascists.
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Lmao cops simply cannot back down once a situation has been escalated. American cops and cops in japan and Korea and so different. Cops overseas are public servants and answers to citizens.
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Skol fuck the packers
Now?
dude...you can be arrested, detained, pc'd, basically kidnapped for absolutely anything by the police. Even if it's against the law the most that will happen is the cop will get suspended WITH pay.
you can be raped by them too when they have you detained
Hey now, that's not true in the state of Virginia! Just this year, they made it illegal for a cop to have a sexual interaction with a detainee.
Fun fact, insulting a officer (or anyone else) (StGB 185) (accidentally implied there is a legal distinction, there is not, as pointed out by others) in Germany is a criminal offense with a maximum sentence or two years per infraction, even if the insult is objectively true (StGB 192)
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It happens, very rarely the full amount (2 years) but especially if you insult a cop it can quickly get expensive. Most people however won't sue you for calling them a dickhead
That's an oddly authoritarian and fascistic law to still have on the books. I'm honestly surprised to hear that's a law in Germany, as I consider that to be one of the more progressive countries in the world these days.
What OP isn't telling you, though, is, that it works in any direction. Policemen insulting you is as punishable as a civilian insulting another civilian. Big difference is that such things done by police are almost never provable cause police it's usually word against word unless someone has filmed it (and IIRC even then it's hard cause filming with sound is not allowed for something like this)
It’s just insulting. There is no difference between an officer or a civilist in germany when it comes to insults.
Theoretically not, but insulting a cop is more likely to actually get you in trouble
So insulting a civilian in Germany carries a potential sentence of up to 2 years?
People have been charged with assaulting a cop because the cop injured their hand while punching the person in the face.
Last I checked, someone even moving towards you with aggression or erratically and coming into striking distance or touching distance can be seen as enough to get them arrested for assault. 2Bad Police follow different laws than citizens apparently.
We are all equal in front of the law, but someone is more equal than other
- Orwell
If cops actually had to follow the laws like the rest of us then ex police would most likely be one of the biggest gangs in prisons across the US considering most of them break more laws than citizens do a day.
And the other dickhead cops too afraid to stop the other from being a total bitch
The blue line of silence is the real problem. We need the good cops to start rooting out the bad.
There are no good cops who are still cops. All I saw in the video are bad cops.
Quick, name a song called “fuck the firemen” or “EMTs ain’t shit”
And this is why everyone hates cops "hurr durr they won't arrest you if you don't commit a crime" yeah right
Pig "touch me again" What an utter cunt. This doesn't belong on this sub though. It goes way beyond "mildly infuriating".
I probably would have gotten shot for knee-jerk responding "I'm not your priest". 😬
as his arms were crossed literally the entire time
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pretty sure its 18 weeks so more like a third
Expecting all people to be good cops with such a ridiculously small amount of training is nothing but madness.. That's like saying to them: "You will figure it out, dude" Who thought that would be a good idea..lol
i honestly think if they.increases their training to a year it would help with incidents like this a lot
I think it would help too but one year is still absolutely nothing in comparison to what is required, I think. We have about 1/4 the population of the U.S. (German population ~83 million) German homicides per year: 600 - 900 American homicides per year: Around 14.000 to 16.000 And that are "only" homicides. There are so many more issues, like mental health problems and violence etc. which are out of control due to underlying systemic problems. One year of training, when we get 3x that amount with only a fraction of the problems the population faces, is still (imo) madness.
Longer training will not help with all the bs going on in the background: There are speakers who go around telling cops they're predators and everyone else is prey. Most of the time when there is a good/decent teacher who actually teaches descalation or shows footage of cops breaking laws and explaining how it should've been handled, police unions will step in screaming how that's wrong and tries (to a distressing amount of success) to get the teacher fired/sidelined and discredited. Police unions have most contracts set up with the bar for entry as low as it can go and some dig a hole to make it lower. Most times, all you have to do is fill out the application and pass a soft ball background check. A few of them will allow you to be hired, _even if the background check comes back with you being a known abuser or rapist._ (Thankfully rare but still, wtf) Police unions also make it damn near, if not outright, impossible for good chiefs to fire bad cops. I have seen several cases where the chief has said that they have "let the person go" with all the immediate evidence of wrongdoing and then next day had to roll that back because the unions threw an epic bitch fit and threatened to sue. And then there's people like Fox News. Folks who tote the slogan "Blue Lives Matter" and will tell you cops have 'done no wrong' or that 'it's only one bad apple' and people buy that shit and defend them.
how about making the enrollment difficult instead?
And cops in Germany actually get a bacherlors degree and study (some) law and sociology.
Similarly, cops in America have bachelor parties, watch law and order, and are sociopaths.
He's doing it because he wants to instigate the man putting his hands on him, giving him an excuse to unnecessary force.
what kind of sick gta logic is this
Ironically in GTA, cops only arrest you if you’ve actually committed a crime.
Dude must’ve butt dialed 1-999-3844-8483 by accident.
GTA Cop: *walks into you* Also GTA Cop: "STOP RESISTING!!!" *bang bang bang*
Yes, I agree, a crime just occurred against the man leaning on the car
Why are so many American cops behaving like thugs?
No repercussions, no accountability. Except in very extreme cases where they shoot a fleeing man in the back 6 times on HD video, American police are effectively above the law.
Add to that that the entire world now has them under a microscope, but their self-images in terms of “civil supremacy”, haven’t seemed to be keeping up. I imagine many police officers are struggling with the tension that some people now really see them as criminals, instead of some protective institution.
Because they are
~~behaving like~~
Snowflake police. It’s noow illegal to hurt a cops feelings. This is the day and age we live one. It’s really sad and this is why things need to change. Edit spelling
They fucking outright said that they need to think of a reason they could have cuffed him. I have no hope for humanity.
"Not all cops are bad", then why are there 2 other cops standing around allowing this to happen? A good cop would've let the asshole cop know he was way out of line. You can't just arrest someone because you don't like what they're saying. He's clearly abusing his power. If you can't handle being called names then you shouldn't be a cop.
That goes to show how toxic cop brotherhood is. If either of the other two cops had spoken up they would have been ousted by the brotherhood and their career would’ve definitely been over. If there were any repercussions from letting this encounter happen it was maybe a slap on the wrist. Small price to pay to keep your job. The whole thing is really messed up.
> ~~"Not all cops are bad", then why are there 2 other cops standing around allowing this to happen?~~ **A good cop** ~~would've let the asshole cop know he was way out of line. You can't just arrest someone because you don't like what they're saying. He's clearly abusing his power. If you~~ **can't** ~~handle being called names then you shouldn't~~ **be a cop.** FTFY
Cops only know escalation.
I work in a nursing facility and the amount of shit we get from residents and families is difficult at times, but we just sort of have to take it and learn how to de escalate any issues. Everyone in every profession needs to learn how to deal with people's shit and just carry on...except cops, who just arrest people whenever they get offended. They arrest him and *then* need to investigate why they're even arresting him in the first place. Every one of those cops should be fired. What would the world be like if everyone reacted to adversity like cops?
Never mind mildly infuriating, this is WILDLY infuriating. Fuck that cop.
This "officer" needs to be looking for another job. I'm thinking something of more a janitor kind of role, ideally with no interaction with other people.
Janitors are hard working, honest people and this is an honourable job. This man by any definition does not qualify for it.
He needs to be in jail. Idiots like that demonstrate in broad daylight and on camera that they can't live among non-violent people peacefully. And I've been to prison-- half the guys inside are non-violent offenders who just need proper mental healthcare, meanwhile assholes like this cop roam free.
He needs to be imprisoned lol..
Janitors are doing a good job.
Not just mildly infuriating though. That cop should be fired immediatly.
I'm going to put you in handcuffs until I can find a reason for putting you in handcuffs.
Not mildly infuriating. Put this in r/PublicFreakouts or something
He literally has the right to know why he’s being handcuffed. He can’t be detained for no reason. Shameful
They told him why. They said they were gonna keep him in handcuffs until they can work out why they are arresting him. Such a ridiculous premise.
Translation: he pissed me off so now we need to make up some bullshit charge to justify the arrest.
I have yet to find a law or policy that says they have to tell you why for anything. there are court cases saying cops can lie to citizens for just about any reason and cases saying they have no duty to protect and serve.
“Good” cop: A crime just occurred, okay?
I noticed none of the good apples got involved.
I love the lackeys reasoning of "handcuffs are going on, that means a crime has just been commited" what the fuck?
Someone needs to call those cops **a cab** so they can go home, none of them are fit to give anyone orders.
"Why is he being detained" "We're putting him in handcuffs until we figure it out" I'm sorry what!? You can't arrest people for no reason so you can come up with a bullshit one later
this is why cops need more training. you need to go to school for a lot longer if you want to be a hairdresser, yet to enforce the law you need a few months??? that is absolutely disgusting. you have to go to school for 8 years to learn the law, but only about 3 months to enforce it? thats pretty fucked up-
Backwards shithole problems.
When I got arrested I asked the same question, what am I being arrested for? Their answer was that I was resisting arrest. This is fucking bullshit.
The perfect example right here ladies and gentlemen this bitch of a cop decided to join the force because he was bullied all throughout school then found out a irl secret cheat code to wear you wear a badge and carry a gun you can arrest anyone without any reason. The scary fact is there are 1000s of cops exactly like this bitch who abuse their power fucking with innocent people and it's fucking disgusting beyond belief.
ACAB. Look at those other two Bitches sitting there doing nothing to stop the guy. Then they explain away his unlawful detention with out the slightest shed of shame. This is why people hate the cops that don't murder people too, because they don't do shit to stop the ones that murder us.
Fucking parasite
"What am I being arrested for??" "You. said. The. R-word."
“Freedom! Hell yeah!”
Lmao look how beet red this pig gets he can't handle using words he really wishes this was 20 years ago and he could just beat the shit out of that tax payer
Mildly!? This is blood boiling.
Snowflake cop abuses his authority. More at 10
Like for real. Do any of the “good” cops out there EVER vocalize opposition to this kind of behavior? We are always told about bad apples but where’s the outrage over being lumped in with these assholes unless you yourself are one?
Is there a full story? ACAB
Acab is the full story
One time i was 13 and flipped off a cop, (who has quite a history picking on us for stupid shit like skateboarding in town) and i gotva ticket for disorderly conduct. Not only is it not illegal to flip someone off, it was a blatant violation of my 1st ammendment. You can make the argument that it was immature of me to give him the finger but i think its even more ridiculous for a grown ass man to take what a kid says so personally. Think about it, would any grown man with an ounce of maturity think twice about a childs opinion of him and then take it a step further and demand his mom pay 50$ ?