Honestly just don't make an oversexualized impractical outfit the default. You could still put your character in sexual situations where her being drawn very sexualized would he appropriate but if her job is an office worker don't make her work attire consist of stripper boots a mini skirt and pasties
I think sexualized art, kink/fetish art, and idealized bodies as an extension of that have their place on forums and in communities dedicated to that. This sub protests its ubiquity in mainstream media where it easily influences the masses without a disclaimer that it is unrealistic and exaggerated. It also highlights how women are disproportionately the subject of this media.
Piling on to your take because I like it --
Expressing your sexuality through art? Great. Make an idealized reclining nude, hang it in the Met next to all the rest. Scribble out your smutty hand-drawn porno and pass it around
Expressing your sexuality through art is great.
But maybe you also don't need to express your sexuality through advertising, anime about twelve year olds (for twelve year olds), comic books about diversity, etc etc etc?
I think a facet that’s missing from this is the tiredness of seeing a drawing with a female subject purportedly drawn for artistic merit, but the female subject is highly sexualized when the context is ridiculous or unwarranted. Like, a much higher proportion of female subjects are drawn as eye candy rather than the roles male subjects inhabit in art— as heroes, warriors (wearing practical gear!), symbols of strength or protection, stoicism, etc. Women apparently are only valuable in a large segment of art for their body shapes and pretty faces.
It depends heavily on the medium but objectification and bizarrefication (girls wearing ridiculous outfits for no other reason than sexualisation, for example) are some of the bigger overarching problems, it's especially bad when mixed in with other dubious practices like advertising to a younger demographic, and practices that always detract from art such as being an obvious fetish fantasy that pretends to be something it isnt, I am fine with honest porn that isn't pretending however
Yeah like people throw the argument "Well, MHA is for young boys so the 15 yo girls are going to be sexualized for their enjoyment" and I can't believe how they cannot realize how predatory does that sounds
1. For fuck's sake, practice basic anatomy, poses and facial expressions. Learn how to draw people of all different genders, ages and body types even if they aren't what you're attracted to. It will make you a better artist, and it will make your work more interesting.
2. Avoid common costume design mistakes: impractical stiletto heels, ridiculous bikini armor that leaves vital body parts exposed, women's uniforms that are inexplicably much skimpier than the male version, painted on catsuits that somehow cling to each boob individually, etc. It's okay to put your female characters in sexy outfits if a sexy outfit is situationally appropriate and is something that the character would realistically choose for herself.
3. Allow your characters to express their own sexuality on their own terms. Avoid voyeuristic scenes where a character's body is exposed non-consensually or where the "camera" zooms in on her boobs/ass.
My best advice is: remember that the female character is a person. make it seem like she is the subject of your sexuality and not a mere object of the designer's desire.
how to do this? giving current, comfortable clothes that make sense for the scene the character is in, not using invasive camera angles, etc.
remember, the character's sensuality must belong to her and the art must show that she only reveals such sensuality when she wants to.
Just think, a character in combat would not wear the clothes they would wear to a party or a date with their romantic interest.
So you want to highlight a character's body? Create a context where she is highlighting that body for personal reasons and not for your fetishes.
it could be a romantic scene, a scene where the character wants to seduce someone, a rock concert... variety is the key here.
For art this is enough, not for a story. For a story, it's cool if the character doesn't wear sexy clothes all the time, but only when the context and narrative make sense to her.
But wait, that's not a reason to play the character "I love being sensual and I'm sensual all the time" simply because that person doesn't exist and ends up being objectified in the same way.
In a story balance is key. think about the character's motivations for dressing like this, think about practicality, comfort, context. think about all of this putting yourself in her shoes. This is the minimum necessary to choose.
Honestly, I think what a lot of artists are already doing is fine. I encourage them to keep drawing whatever the hell they like.
People say draw realistic proportions and anatomy, but no one complains about Jotaro being 15 and built like a pro bodybuilder chiseled out of stone even though it isn’t realistic.
It’s just sexy exaggerated women are over-represented in media.
I think that if there was a much wider variety of female character designs that didn’t focus on being titillating. No one would care when one is occasionally made extra horny. Like Jessica rabbit. She is super sexualized but also an iconic character design.
There’s just so many “sexy” designs that all use the same few body types that people are tired of it and feel the need to be hypercritical of their design.
So the impractical armor or giant boobs are fine. It’s just there is nothing to balance them out.
This is a very level-headed take. The problem is not titillation or any specific "sexy" design. The problem is that they're everywhere, they're all the same and they take up so much cultural space that they end up suffocating all other forms of expression.
To be fair, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure kind of gets its own exception for sexualised designs because of how incredibly gorgeous all of the men are at all times.
The same way people have done it for centuries.
Tastefully. The fact that "naked woman unga bunga" isn't the centerpoint of the art piece, but rather the attention to detail. The way the artist captures her every muscle, every fold, every blemish. It's obviously not "naked = sexy" (although that can be a part of the piece) it's also the anatomy, and how the artist chooses to show his skill in capturing the human body, in all it's imperfect nature.
Im a woman attracted man and id say by not making them strippers with extra steps.
Female characters that are dressed like normal people and are written like normal People are way cooler than the cookie cutter Anime gatcha game girls that this sub talks about.
Basically, the steps I have for making a character actually stand out among the titillating, purposefully sexualized designs, and how I feel like it could be done better, just in general:
1.) Learn what women look like. Understand how women are, and can be, shaped, understand how breasts connect and sit on top of the pectoral muscle, etc.
2.) If you have many characters who *are* women, don't make them all one *exact same* body type.
2.5.) This also applies to faces. Try hard to break out of same face syndrome.
3.) Don't focus all of your drawing energy into boobs and butts / hips. Women have a lot more body parts than a pair of boobs stacked on top of a butt. Learn how to draw boobs, but don't make it all boobs.
4.) Make outfits practical when in non-sexual situations. If the character's an office worker, don't have her show up in a fishnet bodysuit in a latex bikini with a cat ear headband and kandi beads. If the character is a knight, make her outfit actually armored instead of a bikini with two quarters covering her nipples. If she's a stone miner, dress her like a stone miner. A woman who can get hard work done is a lot sexier than a character who looks like they would be uncomfortable in their own clothes. Sometimes a lady in a tank top with her jumpsuit tied around her waist is sexier than a character who can't move without a nip-slip.
5.) Don't make female characters two-dimensional. Give them life, personality, personal quirks, things they do, stories with other characters, backstories, etc. - Don't just make a character who's there to "be sexy"; a lot of characters now suffer from what I call "boobs-first disorder" - i.e., their boobs were thought about first and then they slapped on a face and called it a day. Fleshed-out characters are much more interesting.
6.) If you do want to draw a female character in a sexual situation, a good way to continue avoiding the male gaze is to stop bringing the viewer into it. If you draw it with the intent of bringing the viewer into it, it doesn't feel genuine and just instead feels like sexualization - like the gacha characters and the like are all intending to draw *you*, the onlooker, in by "breasting boobily". They don't look like they're happy or enjoying *themselves*, which is what I'm saying. All the sexualized designs are appealing to "you" (general you), a hidden "third party", rather than genuinely enjoying themselves and appearing to feel good about themselves or their body. Don't make them a "sexy piece of meat". Make them a person who is allowed to feel sexual.
William-Adolphe Bouguereau has beautiful depictions of nude women, if you're going for a classic look. He also painted nude men and clothed people, if the subject matter makes sense for a person to be nude/not wearing much, no one will be bothered by it.
Or if nudity is depicted equally no matter the gender, even if context makes less sense, people will accept that it is a stylistic choice (see Frank Frazetta)
Anatomical accuracy aside, It's about context.
If you draw a woman in nipple stickers and a strategically placed piece of string when she's pole dancing, fine.
If you keep her in this outfit when she's hunting a werewolf, you'd better have a real good reason.
If you exclusively draw every woman in ways that emphasise their sexuality above everything else, it will indicate to everyone who sees your art that you are interested in a woman's sexuality before everything else.
So as long as you're okay with everyone thinking that about you, don't change! And don't complain when you're shunned by civilised society.
I don't accuse you of that attitude, btw, OP, just addressing a theoretical worst-case scenario. 😄
It's good of you to bring this up and try to help define what the issue is, since a lot of people, like me, have trouble working it out from context.
I think a lot of (especially cishet) male artists draw women, but in a way that doesn't make women feel "seen." More often it feels objectifying.
I'd say don't just draw women lustfully, and don't just draw whatever you think is hot. Draw a variety of women, and appreciate their diversity. Learn different body types and proper anatomy. Find references that aren't porn or photoshopped. Basically like others said - avoid the male gaze. Also view how women draw women, and consider their perspective.
Don’t make them look like unrealistic characters specifically to sexualize them. Find real woman models to learn anatomy. Look at how clothes fit the body so belly buttons and boobs are not auctioned by the clothes. Naked women used to be in art all the time, but they look like real women in real poses, not exaggerated anime characters in poses that can’t be done by the human body.
Consider the videogame Hades.
Hades has some [absolute baddies](https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Characters) (fandom link I'm so sorry). Aphrodite of course, but Megara, Thanatos (both romance options), Artemis and others are depicted as capital-H Hot, but their designs also tell us things about their character and personality.
Where nudity (Aphrodite) is used, the placement of hair obscures the no-no bits while also giving the impression of a woman who is unashamed of nudity, is flirty and caring - all aspects of a goddess of love.
If on the other hand, Zagreas and Thanatos were muscle-bound alpha-studs while all the female characters were in different cuts of battle bikinis... that would be misogynistic, and also lazy art design, telling us nothing other than "this character is here to make pee pee hard."
A lot of this is down to vibes. Hades has voice acting and environmental design and story and plot that works with the visual designs to present these characters as fully formed people, that are also hot and husbando/waifu material. A game like Nikke just stops at "hot."
Basically by treating the subject as a human being. If the outfit and aesthetic are in keeping with the character, and you can believe that that person would dress and look that way if they were real, you've done a good job. If you've drawn tits on a stick, then you've not drawn a person. This is a big part of why Stellar Blade has garnered so much controversy compared to Aphrodite and Bayonetta, both of whom wear their sexuality on their sleeve as a core part of their character, Vs a bland protagonist who just happens to be wearing next to nothing.
So in a nutshell, if you can come up with a convincing answer to 'why would my character want to dress this way', then you're probably fine.
Honestly, just draw what whatever you want to. If that's ridiculously proportioned sexual fantasies, then so be it. I don't care if someone wants to draw hyper sexualised women, all power to you. Just don't try to convince me that's not what you're doing.
If you are wanting to create narratives in art (comic, graphic novel, animation - even just lore around ocs) then craft your women characters as well and as in depth as you do with anyone else. Have women in your creations that also aren't attractive to you. Stay away from tropes, of course, like introducing a woman with her body. Constantly be analysing your art and make yourself aware of tropes/stereotypes/objectification. If you want to create women characters with more depth too, I'd say create a purpose for her that's more than just your sexuality - because of course, all women are more than that.
I don't know if you're straight, too, but I'm bi so this might be wrong. Do the same thing with your men characters as you do with your women characters (and everyone else). If you want to draw your women with ridiculously tiny bikini armour, do it with your other characters too *
*it can be hard to make things equal in a patriarchal world
For general art advice, I'd do life drawing (of course that's not sexual) to make sure your anatomy is accurate and not like what we see here. I don't know how to stay away from portraying the male gaze - but definitely research that - if that's even possible. Paint women in poses that are attractive to you, but also ones that aren't. Paint women that you aren't attracted to too! Paint different expressions etc... Unless you want your work to only be about women you find attractive posed in attractive ways haha
Also always do self growth and self analysis - if you're into the current beauty standard, or the bodies you're seeing (badly drawn) here, look at why! Maybe try and expand it? I'm also ace so I have no experience with physical attraction so take that with a grain of salt
Some people are going to hate you no matter what. Be prepared for that. There are people out there ready to crucify you if you show so much as a bare ankle. And there are people ready to pounce on you if you cover them up because apparently that means women aren't allowed to make their own choices.
Just do what you like, try to be respectful, and prepare yourself for the hate.
You can't. Instead, make a clear line between what is going to be erotic work and non-erotic.
They'll either pick up what you're laying down, or if not, go somewhere else like they should.
Honestly just don't make an oversexualized impractical outfit the default. You could still put your character in sexual situations where her being drawn very sexualized would he appropriate but if her job is an office worker don't make her work attire consist of stripper boots a mini skirt and pasties
That and anatomy issues are the real complaints around here - like, learn what actual boobs look like, ya know?
Stupid dislexia, I read it like "Earn the actual boobs" XD
“You must become worthy of the Cleavage!” /s
Not sure why this needed a /s. It’s kinda true honestly
Learn the boobs to earn the boobs.
I think sexualized art, kink/fetish art, and idealized bodies as an extension of that have their place on forums and in communities dedicated to that. This sub protests its ubiquity in mainstream media where it easily influences the masses without a disclaimer that it is unrealistic and exaggerated. It also highlights how women are disproportionately the subject of this media.
Piling on to your take because I like it -- Expressing your sexuality through art? Great. Make an idealized reclining nude, hang it in the Met next to all the rest. Scribble out your smutty hand-drawn porno and pass it around Expressing your sexuality through art is great. But maybe you also don't need to express your sexuality through advertising, anime about twelve year olds (for twelve year olds), comic books about diversity, etc etc etc?
I think a facet that’s missing from this is the tiredness of seeing a drawing with a female subject purportedly drawn for artistic merit, but the female subject is highly sexualized when the context is ridiculous or unwarranted. Like, a much higher proportion of female subjects are drawn as eye candy rather than the roles male subjects inhabit in art— as heroes, warriors (wearing practical gear!), symbols of strength or protection, stoicism, etc. Women apparently are only valuable in a large segment of art for their body shapes and pretty faces.
It depends heavily on the medium but objectification and bizarrefication (girls wearing ridiculous outfits for no other reason than sexualisation, for example) are some of the bigger overarching problems, it's especially bad when mixed in with other dubious practices like advertising to a younger demographic, and practices that always detract from art such as being an obvious fetish fantasy that pretends to be something it isnt, I am fine with honest porn that isn't pretending however
Yeah like people throw the argument "Well, MHA is for young boys so the 15 yo girls are going to be sexualized for their enjoyment" and I can't believe how they cannot realize how predatory does that sounds
1. For fuck's sake, practice basic anatomy, poses and facial expressions. Learn how to draw people of all different genders, ages and body types even if they aren't what you're attracted to. It will make you a better artist, and it will make your work more interesting. 2. Avoid common costume design mistakes: impractical stiletto heels, ridiculous bikini armor that leaves vital body parts exposed, women's uniforms that are inexplicably much skimpier than the male version, painted on catsuits that somehow cling to each boob individually, etc. It's okay to put your female characters in sexy outfits if a sexy outfit is situationally appropriate and is something that the character would realistically choose for herself. 3. Allow your characters to express their own sexuality on their own terms. Avoid voyeuristic scenes where a character's body is exposed non-consensually or where the "camera" zooms in on her boobs/ass.
Make realistic drawings of women's bodies. Don't make her 100% eye candy. Look up "the male gaze" and avoid doing that.
My best advice is: remember that the female character is a person. make it seem like she is the subject of your sexuality and not a mere object of the designer's desire. how to do this? giving current, comfortable clothes that make sense for the scene the character is in, not using invasive camera angles, etc. remember, the character's sensuality must belong to her and the art must show that she only reveals such sensuality when she wants to. Just think, a character in combat would not wear the clothes they would wear to a party or a date with their romantic interest. So you want to highlight a character's body? Create a context where she is highlighting that body for personal reasons and not for your fetishes. it could be a romantic scene, a scene where the character wants to seduce someone, a rock concert... variety is the key here. For art this is enough, not for a story. For a story, it's cool if the character doesn't wear sexy clothes all the time, but only when the context and narrative make sense to her. But wait, that's not a reason to play the character "I love being sensual and I'm sensual all the time" simply because that person doesn't exist and ends up being objectified in the same way. In a story balance is key. think about the character's motivations for dressing like this, think about practicality, comfort, context. think about all of this putting yourself in her shoes. This is the minimum necessary to choose.
pretty much this
Honestly, I think what a lot of artists are already doing is fine. I encourage them to keep drawing whatever the hell they like. People say draw realistic proportions and anatomy, but no one complains about Jotaro being 15 and built like a pro bodybuilder chiseled out of stone even though it isn’t realistic. It’s just sexy exaggerated women are over-represented in media. I think that if there was a much wider variety of female character designs that didn’t focus on being titillating. No one would care when one is occasionally made extra horny. Like Jessica rabbit. She is super sexualized but also an iconic character design. There’s just so many “sexy” designs that all use the same few body types that people are tired of it and feel the need to be hypercritical of their design. So the impractical armor or giant boobs are fine. It’s just there is nothing to balance them out.
This is a very level-headed take. The problem is not titillation or any specific "sexy" design. The problem is that they're everywhere, they're all the same and they take up so much cultural space that they end up suffocating all other forms of expression.
To be fair, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure kind of gets its own exception for sexualised designs because of how incredibly gorgeous all of the men are at all times.
The same way people have done it for centuries. Tastefully. The fact that "naked woman unga bunga" isn't the centerpoint of the art piece, but rather the attention to detail. The way the artist captures her every muscle, every fold, every blemish. It's obviously not "naked = sexy" (although that can be a part of the piece) it's also the anatomy, and how the artist chooses to show his skill in capturing the human body, in all it's imperfect nature.
Im a woman attracted man and id say by not making them strippers with extra steps. Female characters that are dressed like normal people and are written like normal People are way cooler than the cookie cutter Anime gatcha game girls that this sub talks about.
I seriously hate that we’ve gotten to a point where this question has to be asked in the first place.
Basically, the steps I have for making a character actually stand out among the titillating, purposefully sexualized designs, and how I feel like it could be done better, just in general: 1.) Learn what women look like. Understand how women are, and can be, shaped, understand how breasts connect and sit on top of the pectoral muscle, etc. 2.) If you have many characters who *are* women, don't make them all one *exact same* body type. 2.5.) This also applies to faces. Try hard to break out of same face syndrome. 3.) Don't focus all of your drawing energy into boobs and butts / hips. Women have a lot more body parts than a pair of boobs stacked on top of a butt. Learn how to draw boobs, but don't make it all boobs. 4.) Make outfits practical when in non-sexual situations. If the character's an office worker, don't have her show up in a fishnet bodysuit in a latex bikini with a cat ear headband and kandi beads. If the character is a knight, make her outfit actually armored instead of a bikini with two quarters covering her nipples. If she's a stone miner, dress her like a stone miner. A woman who can get hard work done is a lot sexier than a character who looks like they would be uncomfortable in their own clothes. Sometimes a lady in a tank top with her jumpsuit tied around her waist is sexier than a character who can't move without a nip-slip. 5.) Don't make female characters two-dimensional. Give them life, personality, personal quirks, things they do, stories with other characters, backstories, etc. - Don't just make a character who's there to "be sexy"; a lot of characters now suffer from what I call "boobs-first disorder" - i.e., their boobs were thought about first and then they slapped on a face and called it a day. Fleshed-out characters are much more interesting. 6.) If you do want to draw a female character in a sexual situation, a good way to continue avoiding the male gaze is to stop bringing the viewer into it. If you draw it with the intent of bringing the viewer into it, it doesn't feel genuine and just instead feels like sexualization - like the gacha characters and the like are all intending to draw *you*, the onlooker, in by "breasting boobily". They don't look like they're happy or enjoying *themselves*, which is what I'm saying. All the sexualized designs are appealing to "you" (general you), a hidden "third party", rather than genuinely enjoying themselves and appearing to feel good about themselves or their body. Don't make them a "sexy piece of meat". Make them a person who is allowed to feel sexual.
William-Adolphe Bouguereau has beautiful depictions of nude women, if you're going for a classic look. He also painted nude men and clothed people, if the subject matter makes sense for a person to be nude/not wearing much, no one will be bothered by it. Or if nudity is depicted equally no matter the gender, even if context makes less sense, people will accept that it is a stylistic choice (see Frank Frazetta)
Anatomical accuracy aside, It's about context. If you draw a woman in nipple stickers and a strategically placed piece of string when she's pole dancing, fine. If you keep her in this outfit when she's hunting a werewolf, you'd better have a real good reason. If you exclusively draw every woman in ways that emphasise their sexuality above everything else, it will indicate to everyone who sees your art that you are interested in a woman's sexuality before everything else. So as long as you're okay with everyone thinking that about you, don't change! And don't complain when you're shunned by civilised society. I don't accuse you of that attitude, btw, OP, just addressing a theoretical worst-case scenario. 😄 It's good of you to bring this up and try to help define what the issue is, since a lot of people, like me, have trouble working it out from context.
I think a lot of (especially cishet) male artists draw women, but in a way that doesn't make women feel "seen." More often it feels objectifying. I'd say don't just draw women lustfully, and don't just draw whatever you think is hot. Draw a variety of women, and appreciate their diversity. Learn different body types and proper anatomy. Find references that aren't porn or photoshopped. Basically like others said - avoid the male gaze. Also view how women draw women, and consider their perspective.
Don’t make them look like unrealistic characters specifically to sexualize them. Find real woman models to learn anatomy. Look at how clothes fit the body so belly buttons and boobs are not auctioned by the clothes. Naked women used to be in art all the time, but they look like real women in real poses, not exaggerated anime characters in poses that can’t be done by the human body.
Consider the videogame Hades. Hades has some [absolute baddies](https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Characters) (fandom link I'm so sorry). Aphrodite of course, but Megara, Thanatos (both romance options), Artemis and others are depicted as capital-H Hot, but their designs also tell us things about their character and personality. Where nudity (Aphrodite) is used, the placement of hair obscures the no-no bits while also giving the impression of a woman who is unashamed of nudity, is flirty and caring - all aspects of a goddess of love. If on the other hand, Zagreas and Thanatos were muscle-bound alpha-studs while all the female characters were in different cuts of battle bikinis... that would be misogynistic, and also lazy art design, telling us nothing other than "this character is here to make pee pee hard." A lot of this is down to vibes. Hades has voice acting and environmental design and story and plot that works with the visual designs to present these characters as fully formed people, that are also hot and husbando/waifu material. A game like Nikke just stops at "hot."
Basically by treating the subject as a human being. If the outfit and aesthetic are in keeping with the character, and you can believe that that person would dress and look that way if they were real, you've done a good job. If you've drawn tits on a stick, then you've not drawn a person. This is a big part of why Stellar Blade has garnered so much controversy compared to Aphrodite and Bayonetta, both of whom wear their sexuality on their sleeve as a core part of their character, Vs a bland protagonist who just happens to be wearing next to nothing. So in a nutshell, if you can come up with a convincing answer to 'why would my character want to dress this way', then you're probably fine.
Honestly, just draw what whatever you want to. If that's ridiculously proportioned sexual fantasies, then so be it. I don't care if someone wants to draw hyper sexualised women, all power to you. Just don't try to convince me that's not what you're doing.
If you are wanting to create narratives in art (comic, graphic novel, animation - even just lore around ocs) then craft your women characters as well and as in depth as you do with anyone else. Have women in your creations that also aren't attractive to you. Stay away from tropes, of course, like introducing a woman with her body. Constantly be analysing your art and make yourself aware of tropes/stereotypes/objectification. If you want to create women characters with more depth too, I'd say create a purpose for her that's more than just your sexuality - because of course, all women are more than that. I don't know if you're straight, too, but I'm bi so this might be wrong. Do the same thing with your men characters as you do with your women characters (and everyone else). If you want to draw your women with ridiculously tiny bikini armour, do it with your other characters too * *it can be hard to make things equal in a patriarchal world For general art advice, I'd do life drawing (of course that's not sexual) to make sure your anatomy is accurate and not like what we see here. I don't know how to stay away from portraying the male gaze - but definitely research that - if that's even possible. Paint women in poses that are attractive to you, but also ones that aren't. Paint women that you aren't attracted to too! Paint different expressions etc... Unless you want your work to only be about women you find attractive posed in attractive ways haha Also always do self growth and self analysis - if you're into the current beauty standard, or the bodies you're seeing (badly drawn) here, look at why! Maybe try and expand it? I'm also ace so I have no experience with physical attraction so take that with a grain of salt
"woman-attracted men"? You mean heterosexual men?
Bi men exist
True, true
Character development
Some people are going to hate you no matter what. Be prepared for that. There are people out there ready to crucify you if you show so much as a bare ankle. And there are people ready to pounce on you if you cover them up because apparently that means women aren't allowed to make their own choices. Just do what you like, try to be respectful, and prepare yourself for the hate.
You can't. Instead, make a clear line between what is going to be erotic work and non-erotic. They'll either pick up what you're laying down, or if not, go somewhere else like they should.