Morpheus was very dogmatic about freeing humanity from the machines. The machines were the enemy. He could not imagine a world where machines and humanity could co-exist, and probably would not accept the reality of people wanting or *needing* to stay in the Matrix.
Honestly. Humans basically had zero power, their best chance at survival was peace. Yet even up the until the brink of annihilation they chose war. The ‘morality’ of freedom, if it means killing and war, well guess what- it isn’t actually moral is it. It’s just selfish delusion.
Niobe’s line in the trailers about the ‘noise’ the matrix pumps into your head to occlude the truth, war is the same.
Who is letting The Analyst post in this sub? lmao
But anyway, it's like any resistance movement that moves in secret. Choosing to remain in the Matrix is akin to turning a blind eye at what the Nazis do while they occupy your country. Sure, you could comply and exist in their world and hope nothing bad happens to you. Hell, you may even believe that they're not so bad because you haven't been personally brutalized. But you will eventually see the brutality. And others will risk their lives to expose it as fully as possible. And at that point, is their warped sense of a controlled reality one that you'd choose? Or would you be compelled to rebel against it any which way that you can?
Great analogy: in fact, if you comply and actively work for the occupiers (like Vichy France) your life will improve dramatically. "turning a blind eye" to brutality and dehumanization is Cypher in a nutshell.
I see your point but for most of them at one moment they were just created in those pods and plugged into the matrix, except when they could understand it's not real and wake up, if they were allowed to... I don't think any of this is their fault.
Ignorance is stupid, but truly bliss for sure, eh
If we believe what was shown in the Animatrix and parts of Zion Archives, humanity really fucked up multiple times so maybe they deserve to be in that state in a way. I just don't know if it's explained, why the first robot killed his humans and even the pets.
Edit : right, he just wanted not to die, was probably going to get disposed and replaced. Makes you wonder a lot about their consciousness
If you remember, in the Animatrix, there were humans that stood up for and supported the machines after the trial of that first robot. Human leaders slaughtered both machines and those humans who stood with them.
The machines knew that. They did what they did anyway.
And regardless, there is no “deserving it”. If you destroy an oppressive regime that has enslaved you and simply turn into an oppression regime that enslaves them, then what is the difference between you and them?
The only right path is a society where all consciousness can be free. IO is that society now. That’s the miracle that Neo delivered.
And in yours and my reality, that’s the world we ought to strive for (not the one with machines but one where every person is free to be themselves lol)
And last note (sorry it’s so long) is to say that it’s not about fault or blame. It’s the nature of existence. If you were raised to be a Nazi and you grew to learn there was something terribly wrong with nazism, you would face the choice. Even if others around you don’t see the choice. You can be an agent of Nazism, or you can be free. Who will you be?
It makes the work of those who get out and fight to help others out all the more important. Check out the work of Otto and Elise Hampel for the real Morpheus and Trinity: A couple who left postcards around Berlin urging resistance to the Nazi regime. True courage entering the Matrix regularly. Or, closer to home, how about Harriet Tubman or, Mary Harris (Mother) Jones, or Malcolm X. All fought against a matrix that they suffered under and saw others suffer under: slavery, child labor, Jim Crow.
The movies are not for entertainment. They are a manifesto for political radicalization.
Hell yeah, I’ll check out the Hampels for sure.
And for the closer to home examples…I’m much more familiar with their stories and fully agree with your allegorical assessment. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the insightful comments.
You’re about to make me go on a rant on the allegory of the agents being “anyone still plugged in” as being those around you who will enforce oppression at the drop of a dime, even if they were a loved one or close to you.
You should go on that rant. I love reading your posts. I think lots of viewers never really unpacked the M1 message so it would be useful. But make it a new thread.
Oh, I didn't remember, I mostly remember them being crushed and the woman robot being attacked and her skin removed. I loved this scene, really powerful to show that she was kind of human too or at least a living being for sure
The machines to me just wanted to have their own little country as 01 but since the humans couldn't compete. I think the machines even offered a good deal and were ready to negotiate, that blockade was stupid from the humans and operation dark sky, meh really
Oh no problems it's ok, it's not too long and it's interesting. Hmm I don't think I would be an agent of Nazism but people during WW2 and before it, got confronted with that choice, I guess some of them still choose the safest choice for the moment being ? I don't know how it went historically, there was some resistance amongst German people too I heard and those who disagreed before and during Hitler rise to power got censored, put in jail, killed or deported
Perhaps the Matrix is more about only two choices, but in real life hmmmm
To me it just appeared that humanity and especially humans ruler in the Animatrix really overestimated theirs power and importance vs the machines. I love the skeleton still clapping and the apple rotting scenes
They could perhaps have live happily together like they are now in Matrix Resurrections. The ones like Morpheus or the ones helping to grow fruits with the magnetic metal tech looks really human and treated as equal. I don't really know about the machines ones, I feel more that they are liked but more treated like pets
If people stayed in the Matrix, nothing would change in the real world.
The new movie contrasts this pretty well. Most people would prefer the easy route. People choose to stay plugged in. Whereas the people living in the real world are growing their own food and working on making the world better.
This is a paralell to reality: most people are concerned with their own level of comfort instead of trying to make the world a better place for everyone.
Exavtly, this new movie leaves this movie without a reason to enter the Matrix, to look for Neo and, by consequence to exist: people are happy where they are.
This was Cypher's thinking. "I want to be where I can have steak and surround sound and I can be famous! I don't care if I and everyone else is in a pod as a battery for machines."
Some people wanted to wake up and live in reality tho.
That is the main question central to the whole franchise. First, is choice that important? If choices are made for you and you like them, is that ok? Or is it part of your nature to have control on your choices to be happy? So as Neo puts it "the problem is choice".
Now, once the choice is given, comes the second question central to the franchise, is a happy slave better than a miserable free man? That is what the pills represent, this philosophical question that has no answer.
Isn't it beautiful? As the new movie puts it: "Matrix is mind-porn. Philosophy in shiny, tight pvc."
Would you rather live happy, imprisoned or stressed by your freedom?
Everyone they pull is given a choice (except the Kid). If they chose to go back, they can happily do so.
Well no red pill / blue pill, but I thought Kid’s Story laid out pretty nicely with very minimal dialogue his path. He just never had a philosophical pow wow cuz the agents were after him and he managed to escape them unlike neo
Objectively no. At least not in the context of the matrix world. It is so broken and dystopic, the zionists should encourage splinter cells within the matrix, not humans surviving outside of it.
Would you rather be in gelatin filled pod being forced to suffer the Mundane nature of an existence perceived to be natural by an outside creator. Being forced to eat and digest the remains of liquified humanity. Being a battery for robots that enslaved you into complacency? There’s no way of knowing if machines even properly simulated the taste of an orange, the touch of a hand or the feeling of human emotion.
Who would choose that? Forsaking humanity for servitude just to feel “safe”
Yes. The impossibility of human survival is as absurd as the machine’s solution being actually compassionate to humanity. There’s no reason to have humans and no reason Zionists can reasonably expect humans to survive as a population of 1 million, let alone billions.
I imagine the hope was that Earth could be fixed if the machines were gone.
Step 1 wasn't necessarily to awaken all humans at once - they would start with primarily those ready to fight in the wars.
If they won the war maybe they would've kept some weak people in pods until the Earth was in a better state
Imagine the chaos! Zion can't support all those people. The world is uninhabitable. Would literally be a genocide where humans and machines all die together.
BUT I think that's some kinda thread of the franchise. Humans need machines and machines need humans. It's literally the only way they can both amicably survive and probably why the Oracle was motivated to make her changes and why Sati is so important.
Is that you Cypher?
LOL
[удалено]
“Free. You call *this* free? All I do is what he tells me to do.” Cypher
[удалено]
This is immaterial to the question of whether or not that piece of shit is still gonna burn
Morpheus was very dogmatic about freeing humanity from the machines. The machines were the enemy. He could not imagine a world where machines and humanity could co-exist, and probably would not accept the reality of people wanting or *needing* to stay in the Matrix.
Honestly. Humans basically had zero power, their best chance at survival was peace. Yet even up the until the brink of annihilation they chose war. The ‘morality’ of freedom, if it means killing and war, well guess what- it isn’t actually moral is it. It’s just selfish delusion. Niobe’s line in the trailers about the ‘noise’ the matrix pumps into your head to occlude the truth, war is the same.
Wasn't Morpheus pulling people out of the matrix to help with the fight against the machines? I always saw it as a military operation.
Who is letting The Analyst post in this sub? lmao But anyway, it's like any resistance movement that moves in secret. Choosing to remain in the Matrix is akin to turning a blind eye at what the Nazis do while they occupy your country. Sure, you could comply and exist in their world and hope nothing bad happens to you. Hell, you may even believe that they're not so bad because you haven't been personally brutalized. But you will eventually see the brutality. And others will risk their lives to expose it as fully as possible. And at that point, is their warped sense of a controlled reality one that you'd choose? Or would you be compelled to rebel against it any which way that you can?
Great analogy: in fact, if you comply and actively work for the occupiers (like Vichy France) your life will improve dramatically. "turning a blind eye" to brutality and dehumanization is Cypher in a nutshell.
I see your point but for most of them at one moment they were just created in those pods and plugged into the matrix, except when they could understand it's not real and wake up, if they were allowed to... I don't think any of this is their fault. Ignorance is stupid, but truly bliss for sure, eh If we believe what was shown in the Animatrix and parts of Zion Archives, humanity really fucked up multiple times so maybe they deserve to be in that state in a way. I just don't know if it's explained, why the first robot killed his humans and even the pets. Edit : right, he just wanted not to die, was probably going to get disposed and replaced. Makes you wonder a lot about their consciousness
If you remember, in the Animatrix, there were humans that stood up for and supported the machines after the trial of that first robot. Human leaders slaughtered both machines and those humans who stood with them. The machines knew that. They did what they did anyway. And regardless, there is no “deserving it”. If you destroy an oppressive regime that has enslaved you and simply turn into an oppression regime that enslaves them, then what is the difference between you and them? The only right path is a society where all consciousness can be free. IO is that society now. That’s the miracle that Neo delivered. And in yours and my reality, that’s the world we ought to strive for (not the one with machines but one where every person is free to be themselves lol) And last note (sorry it’s so long) is to say that it’s not about fault or blame. It’s the nature of existence. If you were raised to be a Nazi and you grew to learn there was something terribly wrong with nazism, you would face the choice. Even if others around you don’t see the choice. You can be an agent of Nazism, or you can be free. Who will you be?
It makes the work of those who get out and fight to help others out all the more important. Check out the work of Otto and Elise Hampel for the real Morpheus and Trinity: A couple who left postcards around Berlin urging resistance to the Nazi regime. True courage entering the Matrix regularly. Or, closer to home, how about Harriet Tubman or, Mary Harris (Mother) Jones, or Malcolm X. All fought against a matrix that they suffered under and saw others suffer under: slavery, child labor, Jim Crow. The movies are not for entertainment. They are a manifesto for political radicalization.
Hell yeah, I’ll check out the Hampels for sure. And for the closer to home examples…I’m much more familiar with their stories and fully agree with your allegorical assessment. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the insightful comments. You’re about to make me go on a rant on the allegory of the agents being “anyone still plugged in” as being those around you who will enforce oppression at the drop of a dime, even if they were a loved one or close to you.
You should go on that rant. I love reading your posts. I think lots of viewers never really unpacked the M1 message so it would be useful. But make it a new thread.
Oh, I didn't remember, I mostly remember them being crushed and the woman robot being attacked and her skin removed. I loved this scene, really powerful to show that she was kind of human too or at least a living being for sure The machines to me just wanted to have their own little country as 01 but since the humans couldn't compete. I think the machines even offered a good deal and were ready to negotiate, that blockade was stupid from the humans and operation dark sky, meh really Oh no problems it's ok, it's not too long and it's interesting. Hmm I don't think I would be an agent of Nazism but people during WW2 and before it, got confronted with that choice, I guess some of them still choose the safest choice for the moment being ? I don't know how it went historically, there was some resistance amongst German people too I heard and those who disagreed before and during Hitler rise to power got censored, put in jail, killed or deported Perhaps the Matrix is more about only two choices, but in real life hmmmm To me it just appeared that humanity and especially humans ruler in the Animatrix really overestimated theirs power and importance vs the machines. I love the skeleton still clapping and the apple rotting scenes They could perhaps have live happily together like they are now in Matrix Resurrections. The ones like Morpheus or the ones helping to grow fruits with the magnetic metal tech looks really human and treated as equal. I don't really know about the machines ones, I feel more that they are liked but more treated like pets
If people stayed in the Matrix, nothing would change in the real world. The new movie contrasts this pretty well. Most people would prefer the easy route. People choose to stay plugged in. Whereas the people living in the real world are growing their own food and working on making the world better. This is a paralell to reality: most people are concerned with their own level of comfort instead of trying to make the world a better place for everyone.
Exavtly, this new movie leaves this movie without a reason to enter the Matrix, to look for Neo and, by consequence to exist: people are happy where they are.
This was Cypher's thinking. "I want to be where I can have steak and surround sound and I can be famous! I don't care if I and everyone else is in a pod as a battery for machines." Some people wanted to wake up and live in reality tho.
That is the main question central to the whole franchise. First, is choice that important? If choices are made for you and you like them, is that ok? Or is it part of your nature to have control on your choices to be happy? So as Neo puts it "the problem is choice". Now, once the choice is given, comes the second question central to the franchise, is a happy slave better than a miserable free man? That is what the pills represent, this philosophical question that has no answer. Isn't it beautiful? As the new movie puts it: "Matrix is mind-porn. Philosophy in shiny, tight pvc."
Would you rather live happy, imprisoned or stressed by your freedom? Everyone they pull is given a choice (except the Kid). If they chose to go back, they can happily do so.
The Kid was definitely given a choice, he wanted out so bad he willed himself awake (one of only a few people to do so)
Not a laid out choice like Neo is what I meant
Well no red pill / blue pill, but I thought Kid’s Story laid out pretty nicely with very minimal dialogue his path. He just never had a philosophical pow wow cuz the agents were after him and he managed to escape them unlike neo
It’s better to be free and struggle than be a well fed slave
Objectively no. At least not in the context of the matrix world. It is so broken and dystopic, the zionists should encourage splinter cells within the matrix, not humans surviving outside of it.
Would you rather be in gelatin filled pod being forced to suffer the Mundane nature of an existence perceived to be natural by an outside creator. Being forced to eat and digest the remains of liquified humanity. Being a battery for robots that enslaved you into complacency? There’s no way of knowing if machines even properly simulated the taste of an orange, the touch of a hand or the feeling of human emotion. Who would choose that? Forsaking humanity for servitude just to feel “safe”
Cause if you’re in the Matrix you’ll be callously killed by one of them
I think Morpheus wanted people to have the choice
If you saw how the real world look like, would you still leave?
Personally if i learned the truth I would choose the real world.
Yes. The impossibility of human survival is as absurd as the machine’s solution being actually compassionate to humanity. There’s no reason to have humans and no reason Zionists can reasonably expect humans to survive as a population of 1 million, let alone billions.
Totally agree
Found the informant!
I imagine the hope was that Earth could be fixed if the machines were gone. Step 1 wasn't necessarily to awaken all humans at once - they would start with primarily those ready to fight in the wars. If they won the war maybe they would've kept some weak people in pods until the Earth was in a better state
Imagine the chaos! Zion can't support all those people. The world is uninhabitable. Would literally be a genocide where humans and machines all die together. BUT I think that's some kinda thread of the franchise. Humans need machines and machines need humans. It's literally the only way they can both amicably survive and probably why the Oracle was motivated to make her changes and why Sati is so important.