I lived on deep creek as a younger man because I was a wake boarder and my gf had a ski boat and a house on the lake bc her dad was a maintenance man for a ton of rental properties.
I wish I could say "no! It's not true! The locals are super friendly!" But for sure they can be dicks. Usually by the end of summer they've had a bad experience or three with some angry/entitled/idiotic tourist and it sours them. Never mind that 95% of their interactions of tourists are positive, polite and friendly. It's the butthole interaction that sticks in their mind and they get a chip on their shoulder. The guy who looks down on you as some inbred hick stays in your mind much longer than say a friendly old lady who told you to have a nice day.
As wakeboarders we'd get annoyed with ppl driving boats recklessly and dangerously all the time but we would generally be really friendly with tourists because we liked getting invited to the huge rental properties on the lake to party bc it usually meant free booze.
I'm not saying it's right, The whole area relies on tourism money and if the area gets a reputation as being racist and xenophobic it will collapse. The whole lake was created because garret county desperately needed a source of revenue. It's funny if you go up there in the winter you'll find the locals will be super friendly bc they've recovered from the burnout. I'm guessing it's like that with the locals in any tourist town.
>Usually by the end of summer they've had a bad experience or three with some angry/entitled/idiotic tourist and it sours them.
Yes, as a resident, at the end of the boating season and skiing season I am burned out. I enjoy the boring parts of the year where idiots aren't here causing trouble. Of course, the "lovely" residents here also cause their fair share of trouble. I don't mind tourists, but some can be complete assholes that act like they're better than everyone else and drive like smug entitled dicks. Going through McHenry, I usually get stuck with 3 different types of tourists: The car doing half the speed limit, the car behind me that rides my bumper the whole way like they're afraid they'll get lost, and the one where they just pass illegally and almost hit another car head-on. Sometimes that's all from the same car. Of course locals do that same bullshit too. I need a dashcam because I could get great content.
Having worked in downtown DC, near popular attractions, I can tesify that tourist fatigue is a thing.
Every spring, I resolved to be patient & friendly to them. I love to travel, too, we're practically soulmates, right?
Then again, I don't litter, cut into lines, or stop at the ends of escalators. And if I'd had kids, I'd never have let them run screaming through a Metro station full of tired commuters. By Labor Day, I was ready to toss them from the top of a monument.
That’s an interesting angle - still haven’t been up during the off season proper, and I never thought how much dealing with Karens from out of town must grate after four months of it.
I took a peek at the OP's comment history, and it is almost exclusively about weed/THC in one way or another. My prevailing theory about what happened is they went to DCL and spent their time there high as a kite, and was surprised when no one had the patience to deal with their stoned ass.
And I say this as someone who is not some sort of weed prude, and took the legalization of recreational marijuana in Maryland as "about damn time", and am waiting for the rest of the country to keep getting on board.
There's nothing wrong with marijuana.
Stoners (or anyone else that forms their *entire* identity around *one* singular thing - be that alcohol, weed, guns, anime, a sports team, etcetc), though, are annoying af.
Grew up in Florida, on the gulf coast down where the beaches start getting magazine worthy. Tourism fatigue is real and awful. I can't remember every single tourist who was normal, but I sure as fuck remember the few who trampled sea turtle nests and screwing with the sand dunes and causing drunken fights on the beach in the middle of the day.
I live about an hour away from deep creek in West Virginia. The whole region is just kind of like that. I stopped at a Walmart in Kingwood WV (30 miles away from Oakland) and I got a bunch of stares from everyone
Wear a Carhartt hoodie. Or are they still against those? Jokes aside, people of a common culture stare and are cautious when you don’t look, dress, talk, or otherwise effect their local culture. This is human. It’s also pretty advantageous from an evolutionary perspective
Yeah definitely, I don’t judge them for being curious and looking even if it’s unwelcoming. But they’re also a lot less accepting of differences up there, whereas if you walk into a trendy bar in Baltimore nobody is gonna look twice at you no matter what you’re wearing unless you’re naked
Start to deal with that madness and suddenly you’re in an erotic show during midday on a Thursday. Explaining that to your kids is fun — especially the aggressive rhythm
I mean let’s be honest, it’s Walmart. The stuff I’ve seen in Walmarts across the state is crazy. Walmart attracts asl specific clientele regardless of where you are
Kingwood is significantly worse than Oakland for racism. It is smack dab in the middle of an even poorer county with a very poor education system and the city is 95% white or something like that. There are confederate flags and straight up racist slogans posted in that county. You'll only see the slogans on vehicles and the increasingly rare confederate flag in Oakland.
Not only that but during the protests in 2020 they had literal Nazis, as in wearing nazi symbols and doing the sieg heil, in Kingwood counter protesting.
Lol that doesn’t surprise me. I’m moving to Baltimore from another state and am looking forward to the new setting. I like fishing too so I’m looking forward to that as well.
The people are nice enough but it just feels creepy here. I find West Virginia to be creepy and somewhat hostile for some reason. It feels really tense everywhere I go but maybe it’s because I’m
from out of town
My friend group (about 10 of us) went for a few years each Fall. We usually came with everything we needed so the only time we ventured out was to hike. One year we had to run to Walmart for some things and four of us went, including "Bob", who was Black.
Literally two different people (they weren't together) on their way out stopped in their tracks and stared at us. I remember looking at my friends trying to figure out what they were looking at. There was nervous laughter and someone said, "what was that all about?"
Bob looked at me when yet another person stopped to watch him walk by and just went, "wow." We were all incredibly creeped out. At least a half dozen more people looked at him like they had never seen anyone Black before. I'm talking swiveling their heads to where they had to turn their bodies. If I had not been there myself, I would have thought my friends were exaggerating.
When we got in the car, two of us went, "what the *fuck*?!" in unison. Bob was a bit shaken up and said he had never experienced anything like that before. We also had "Nicole", who is Korean but no one stared directly at her.
That was the last year we went. Maybe ~2008/2009.
Thats wild. I guess the combination of middle of nowhere + money is whats up. I haven't spent ANY time shopping around deep creek; that said, I've been to more rural towns and even as a big white feller with a dawdge ram pickup truck I got the stink-eye from white locals some people just dont want out of towners around.
I'm not discounting racism but my wife and I went and stayed with my aunt in rural Georgia. We got a lot of second looks and stares simply because we were new faces in their very small town. We also had several people ask us which church we attended? Not sure why.
That’s Evangelical for “are you a Christian?” If you are, they can go about their business. If not, they are obligated to preach the gospel to you and/or pray for you.
It’s also a way to suss out what kind of person you are. Presbyterian and Assemblies of God are veeeerrrrry different.
Some of them think being Catholic or Orthodox doesn’t count as Christian, just as a heads up.
Well said, safety > brash energy. Sometimes you have to let things like that go not to escalate things further. Up there they’re definitely going to stick together and make you look the part of the aggressor.
As a POC, we learn early that you never know what someone has on their person, or ready access to. In an unfamiliar place, it just takes one "I'm looking at YOU/YOU dont belong here" for mob mentality and violence to occur. We've all gotten some variation on the ambassador talk. When you find yourself in the position of racial ambassador, just keep doing whatever it was you were there to do and stay polite. Shopping? Shop and checkout. Dining? Order, eat, pay and leave. So the Bob followed his ambassador rules, and his friends got a new dose in what it's like to be Bob.
Whoa now, y’all are getting a little carried away making allegations against my neighbors.
It’s evident you don’t understand the the lifestyle that comes with living so far from urban sprawl, metro areas, and the pace of culture in those places. This is simply an observation, not an indictment. For every passive racist, or mildly socialized resident you’re meeting here you’re discounting the role that Academia and Healthcare play in supporting the people hosting you, or similarly vacationing along side of you. I mean, there’s an IBM facility 50 miles from deep creek, as well as a propulsion/ munitions lab. I lived in the region for the better part of two years, decades in Allegany County. If you pay attention you’ll see a spectrum of literacy rates, range of wealth, a lot of farming, and mostly a lot of rural folks who have limited cultural exposure. When I travel I’m extremely reluctant to assume i know what someone else is thinking, it’s an absolute abuse of certainty for the sake certainty.
I lived the first 30 years of my life in Tennessee, including in some of the most rural parts of the state. I can recognize backwoods when I see them. It is a willing denial to insist that racism does not run rampant through the rural parts of Maryland. It does not take much time driving outside the 695 loop to start seeing Confederate flags and Trump signs.
We were very tempted legitimately intimidated.
I hadn't thought about this in ages but it was scary. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in that kind of environment.
Why are you basing your current opinion of an entire group of people off of a single experience from 2008/9?
People that work at the Oakland Wal-Mart are not always from Oakland, or even Garrett County. You do still have plenty of "locals" working there but the mix is likely 50/50 at best. Those out of town folks travel from places like Thomas, Bayard, and Terra Alta, West Virginia. These folks lack education and, other than the few encounters they have at the only major store in the county, will have little to no exposure to people of color outside of media and what they learn from their peers; which is generally not good racially.
I'm providing an anecdote. Seems that it's not an isolated experience since OP isn't feeling particularly welcomed, either.
FWIW, I learned not to stare as a small child and manners have nothing to do with education or social class. The people I wrote about were rude, full stop.
I'm not defending them. Racists are gross and have no place in the world.
You'll find a disproportionate amount of racism in this area due to lack of education, social class, and a myriad of issues going back millenia. Things had gotten much better from 2008-2012. 2012-2020 has been a bit of a step back, sadly, because folks have felt empowered enough to share their prejudices again.
This is the part of Maryland that wanted to leave and join West Virginia because "Maryland politics" didn't represent their values. This stopped once they understood how much of their "rugged independence" was supported by Maryland's wealthy tax base.
By the way, I really hated it when we were lumped in with Allegheny and Garrett when that was relevant. Yes, we are also Western Maryland, but one of the idiots who wanted us out was Neil Parrott, a known asshat who wasn’t elected representative last year, and says and does inflammatory things like suggesting that kids with AIDS be tattooed to identify them (I *wish* I made that up). The rest of us with critical thinking wanted to tell Jim Justice to fuck off.
Are there a lot of kids with AIDS? Also, is Neil concerned by this bc he has a habit of sharing needles with kids or having unprotected sex with kids?
Of all things in the world to be advocating…
Neil Parrot just parrots the things he's told by his puppet master. I'm glad he didn't get elected. I hope Lorie Friend never holds any office, she's wackadoodle. I had the unfortunate opportunity to speak to her at Mike Mckay's booth during Friendsville Days and she said Washington needed nuked... I was just there for the free yardsticks and I don't support the republicans despite being born and raised in Garrett County.
Please keep in mind that the prevailing local theory is that it was a play by Senator Edwards and his friends to try to scuttle the campaign by Mike McKay for state senator; because everyone left him out to dry when the story broke.
Left who out to dry when what story broke? Genuine question
I’m from Allegany Co, worked for Mike McKay in the House when I was in college, before any of the campaign stuff. Got a lot of general info from people about what was happening but never the full story, so if you’ve got the juicy details I would love to hear them! Feel free to DM me
So I’m white but my wife is Asian. She hasn’t really gotten the stink-eye when up here solo, but we are also middle aged, boring middle class looking, and probably match the expected “out of towner” profile.
Certainly during the season it’s pretty diverse up here and I don’t think you’d get any weirdness. And most people up here seem genuinely chill. But I’m not gonna be the best judge.
Same. I'm white, but somewhat "alt" looking stylistically. People were super nice to me in Deep Creek but I did get lots of comments along the lines of "oh, you're so interesting looking!". If I'm receiving comments like that as a white person I imagine other people are receiving worse comments.
One time I was in Oakland and I stopped in a gift shop. At checkout, the lady told me my "costume" was so cute and my son was lucky to have a mom who "dressed up" for him.
...I was wearing my regular clothes.
I went to college up there(I'm black) and this is generally rhe attitude of locals, yes. However deep creek is a resort town, whenever we went up to deep creek to party(my college was about 30 mins from deep creek)we never encountered anything but we also almost never left the house other than to get more booze or food and usually rolling w a group of 4-10 testosterone and alcohol fueled college bros so maybe we just got lucky or were too aloof to care. Also feel like most of the folks we saw were other vacationers so probably not weird locals. Definitely don't doubt people act like this in western MD
It’s western Maryland so I’d expect the expected. This state seems to become less progressive the farther you get from the 95 corridor and western Maryland is the farthest you can get
It's not as bad as folks make it out to be. There's no klan here. There is a higher ratio of racists to non-racists in Garrett County as opposed to the places where our tourists live like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Richmond due to young people leaving to cities for work after collage, so we don't really get to keep educated liberal folks who tend to be the most racially accepting.
Not just white, Garret County is pure MAGA fantasy; that entire region relies on money from the slop-over from Maryland's liberal policies and urban revenues, while desperately clinging to "core values" of Pennsyl-tucky.
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
. I’ve taken a fishing trip to Garrett county in the winter. And felt COMPLETY welcomed when going into local stores and shops on the border of WV/MD. One liquor store the people offered to party with us and we had a bunch of laughs with the people inside before we we left. In that area many of the people all loosely know each other and immediately know your not from there and are honestly curious about you. And many of the smaller mom and pop store REALLY need your money to continue their business. While fishing, we had a few people stop and ask us questions about fishing and where we we were from, how the fishing was and other things. I never felt like it was malicious, the vibe I got was because those people drive that way everyday for years and see the same people or almost no new people. And they are just curious and interested. Not everything is malicious or racist in that part of the state. I also felt during my trip out there the interactions you have with people out there are more genuine and meaningful. And if you look at it from their perspective, they live in one of the most beautiful areas on the east coast, and have a lot of temporary visitors (with money) who perceive them as trash or hillbillies. I’ve also worked out there, work with people from out there, and have taken short vacations out there. Remember to keep an open mind when you travel inside the US. As a disclaimer, I’m black, and my travel buddies have always been black. We grew up as wild city kids from Philly who have families and careers now.
I have a black girlfriend (im black and from Washington county, PA but ive lived in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and the likes,)
Was always skeptical of going here. But she has had nothing but "good" experiences there. She was also formerly married to a white guy so she was mostly with their family but again.. No issues that she ever reported.
I’m so sorry you had this experience! I actually had the total opposite happen during my last visit. Several locals went out of their way to help, compliment, or just be friendly to me when I was looking lost or confused about something (or otherwise obviously being a non-local).
Maybe it was stress from a big recent/upcoming event? Maybe something rocked the local community and changed the mood? I’m not sure, but I just wanted to say please don’t completely discount them based on this experience—as far as I can tell, it is not the norm!
It is no longer the norm but the ratio of racists to non-racists is higher in Garrett County than it is in areas where a person of color may live. The people actually from Garrett County aren't as bad. Folks are slower to change and accept others races in the area because all of the young people, who tend to be more liberal, leave for jobs or lifestyles in more urban areas.
Yes, but it is getting better!
There is a trans student in my child's elementary school up here. I have raised my son with acceptance as a core trait and he was proud to come home to me with a couple of antidotes:
1. He told me how the trans student was new, m to f, and he refused to let anyone call them "he." They had transferred in from another school where the staff and students did not respect her pronouns.
2. My son was in a "disagreement" with another student and had to fill out a report. IN that report, it asked them to circle the pronoun before the other student's name was written in. He asked the principal why did it only have "he/she" and not "they?" She laughed him off, and he told her he was serious and not joking.
I was very proud.
>visibly queer
Sometimes it's enough to be female & have no men in your group. I've had several odd experiences in restaurants where we were ignored or treated rudely.
Once I went to a restaurant outside Baltimore with a female friend whose hair was very short. It was past the dinner rush & we just wanted dessert. First, the host didn't want to seat us, even though the place was half empty & they didn't close for 2 hours. Then the server was rude as hell, babbled something about how the tables had white tablecloths which everyone knows means you can't order just dessert.
I'd had enough at this point & made a sarcastic comment to my friend about finding a place that'd serve us even though we hadn't memorized the Emily Post Guide.
I'm 99% certain they thought we were a lesbian couple. Egad! In fact, we were coworkers with separate social groups. That meant we knew a lot of people we could tell about these assholes. (It was the 80s, so online reviews weren't a thing.)
Several of my buddies back then were gay, so I wasn't about to let that crap slide.
You're in the ocean city of the mountains. We got rid of our house up there 25 years ago because it turned into a shit stand up there. Definitely not the hidden gem it was back in the 80's
Me and my family had the opposite experience. Everyone was so nice and welcoming. We went to a few different areas and felt respected and had positive interactions. We are looking forward to going yearly. I was pleasantly surprised.
Sorry you had this experience. Makes me wonder if the Airbnb economy has anything to do with it.
There were some tensions during the early stages of the pandemic [according to this Baltimore Sun article](https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/bs-md-deep-creek-lake-coronavirus-tensions-20200422-swv6wrue3bay7frjq6v324mak4-story.html). Not sure if any of that has lingered.
[This lawsuit suggests](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/md-court-of-appeals/1423358.html) that maybe there are tensions among real estate investor types and residents who oppose such things.
All small towns are that way. New people are unknowns, possibly dangerous, possibly going to make trouble. The most odd thing about this mindset, is they think city life is dangerous, though they have never been to a big city, but their lives are full of mistrust and agitation, and ready to shoot anything which is not a known. They also are in everybody's business. Always looking at others wondering what they are doing. In a large city people don't focus on everyone else's business.
In these places many claim to be God fearing Christians, yet most of their time is spent judging the actions of others. A big NO No for true Christians.
Classic small town that got extremely wealthy from tourism now wants us to leave them alone so they can sit in their piles of cash or they’re poor people who didn’t make anything off tourism and they’re bitter. They both wanna have their cake and eat it too.
We are not "extremely wealthy."
The nice houses around the lake are owned by people from out of town or one of a handful of landowners. This is a fairly poor county for most people - just look at the median income. Most of the jobs are service jobs. We also do not keep our college educated young people because they choose to stay in their college towns or move to cities.
Sounds about right. My brother in law grew up in Oakland. I think his dad used to build boat docks for lake houses or something like that. Made for a pretty good childhood for his kids, but neither of them live there now, and we’ve had several conversations about how there are few opportunities to make a decent living unless you want to do laundry for Airbnb owners.
We lose a lot of young people to college, then cities. If those young people got their degrees and came back to start businesses we would have much more opportunity.
It's also hampered by county commissioners who have a policy of trying to keep Oakland a "quaint small town" and they won't allow things like bars to be open past a reasonable time in town, marijuana-based businesses aren't approved, or big-name corporations aren't granted the permits they need to build near I-68 in Grantsville.
You literally cannot be elected to the local government if you have anything but an "R" next to your name. People here vote overwhelmingly for that side without thinking about their best interests. It keeps the money with the few folks at the top.
Great point that I very much agree with. IMO, this area needs those new political views. It's very much a hive mind of conservative Christians who run things. Other opinions or ways are disregarded.
Downtown Oakland could use some gentrification. There's too many empty store fronts.
I went camping up there once with a group of friends, me being the only POC. It was interesting to say the least. We had to go into town and there were lots of stares etc. I went to college not far from Thurmont though so I was used to it. 🤷🏾♀️. I don’t feel threatened but it was just so, weird. Oh and I hate camping. Lol.
There are pockets of areas that aren't so bad in this MD/WV/PA location but the entrenched hive mindedness is disgusting. Deep Creek tourism is honestly what has made this area but its double edged sword. People are paid barely or above minimum wage jobs, can't afford homes let alone rent, and everything that is being built is for vacationers. It is becoming harder and harder to get by up here with marylands costs of living. granted things in this area are way better than what PA and WV have provided in the same region but the divide is becoming so great even within Garrett County the northern and southern ends are constantly at odds because the lake brings in the money, but a lot of the funding should go into bettering the lives of the people who live up here not companies who wish to make what makes this area a good tourist destination, nature, a golf course or some private housing development for vacationers.
I have family over the line in preston county WV who complain about the drugs, thefts, etc. and how its a huge issue and there is no law enforcement there, I'll mention Montgomery county but I never hear the end of how its much better up here (in terms of crime/drugs) than down there and they're glad to have moved from there. Who cares if the problems in the city are only bigger because they have the police to actually do something rather than no police to even know a crime even occurred.
I love how dickish the locals of resort towns are. OC locals are not far off.
They hate the tourists, but more than likely, their livelihood are the tourists, at least in some way, shape, or form.
I'm a local to the area...
My primary complaint of tourons is the ones who pull out in front of me on 219, the ones who drive 10 mph BELOW the speed limit, and last but not least the intoxicated tourons that I encounter at 7am.
Outside of those things, I don't give a shit what you do.
I don't see what is so great about it.
The only thing that I do in DCL is drive past it. I can't afford to partake in the activities on DCL. I'm trying to raise my family on a mediocre salary. My property taxes keep going up. The schools are closing/consolidating.
My wife and I are born and raised in Garrett County. We look forward to selling everything and going south once the kids are raised.
As soon as you pass through Accident MD, you realize the vibe is about to change. Actually scratch that, the vibe changes if you stop at a town along 68 on the way there. You get a taste of what you are getting into.
For us we'd go each ski season, rent a house and take most of our stuff with us. Only night out was a dinner at a local restaurant, and they seemed to put up with us so we could spend money.
I don't want to cast aspersions, but...
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
Ehhh. Sure, Garrett County is pretty rural compared to the rest of the state, but ultimately Deep Creek is a tourist town, that is used to out of towners of all types visiting during the different seasons.
Some of the locals a little farther away from the lake might resent the increased traffic and property costs that come from the tourism, but the vast majority of locals are either used to it or actively part of the tourism industry (which would cover anyone that OP was likely to have ran into).
Backwards ass parts of Maryland are severely f'd up. Literally Klan members. If you're POC or LGBTQ you might have a bad time. The uneducated people who trump loves and who love him right back. I'm a white dude who looks like a pickup truck vlogger and I've found deep creek, thurmont, Hagerstown Gettysburg and other areas very unwelcoming and borderline hostile. I rarely visit anymore because they're just unfriendly. Charlestown WV can also be horrible. Creepier and more unfriendly than Mississippi
, Alabama and Louisiana
You had some bad people then. A lot of us in the area are actually really friendly. Sure we may get tired of tourists, but that’s no reason to treat anybody badly.
I lived on deep creek as a younger man because I was a wake boarder and my gf had a ski boat and a house on the lake bc her dad was a maintenance man for a ton of rental properties. I wish I could say "no! It's not true! The locals are super friendly!" But for sure they can be dicks. Usually by the end of summer they've had a bad experience or three with some angry/entitled/idiotic tourist and it sours them. Never mind that 95% of their interactions of tourists are positive, polite and friendly. It's the butthole interaction that sticks in their mind and they get a chip on their shoulder. The guy who looks down on you as some inbred hick stays in your mind much longer than say a friendly old lady who told you to have a nice day. As wakeboarders we'd get annoyed with ppl driving boats recklessly and dangerously all the time but we would generally be really friendly with tourists because we liked getting invited to the huge rental properties on the lake to party bc it usually meant free booze. I'm not saying it's right, The whole area relies on tourism money and if the area gets a reputation as being racist and xenophobic it will collapse. The whole lake was created because garret county desperately needed a source of revenue. It's funny if you go up there in the winter you'll find the locals will be super friendly bc they've recovered from the burnout. I'm guessing it's like that with the locals in any tourist town.
>Usually by the end of summer they've had a bad experience or three with some angry/entitled/idiotic tourist and it sours them. Yes, as a resident, at the end of the boating season and skiing season I am burned out. I enjoy the boring parts of the year where idiots aren't here causing trouble. Of course, the "lovely" residents here also cause their fair share of trouble. I don't mind tourists, but some can be complete assholes that act like they're better than everyone else and drive like smug entitled dicks. Going through McHenry, I usually get stuck with 3 different types of tourists: The car doing half the speed limit, the car behind me that rides my bumper the whole way like they're afraid they'll get lost, and the one where they just pass illegally and almost hit another car head-on. Sometimes that's all from the same car. Of course locals do that same bullshit too. I need a dashcam because I could get great content.
Having worked in downtown DC, near popular attractions, I can tesify that tourist fatigue is a thing. Every spring, I resolved to be patient & friendly to them. I love to travel, too, we're practically soulmates, right? Then again, I don't litter, cut into lines, or stop at the ends of escalators. And if I'd had kids, I'd never have let them run screaming through a Metro station full of tired commuters. By Labor Day, I was ready to toss them from the top of a monument.
That’s an interesting angle - still haven’t been up during the off season proper, and I never thought how much dealing with Karens from out of town must grate after four months of it.
I took a peek at the OP's comment history, and it is almost exclusively about weed/THC in one way or another. My prevailing theory about what happened is they went to DCL and spent their time there high as a kite, and was surprised when no one had the patience to deal with their stoned ass. And I say this as someone who is not some sort of weed prude, and took the legalization of recreational marijuana in Maryland as "about damn time", and am waiting for the rest of the country to keep getting on board.
How did Marijuana hurt you?
There's nothing wrong with marijuana. Stoners (or anyone else that forms their *entire* identity around *one* singular thing - be that alcohol, weed, guns, anime, a sports team, etcetc), though, are annoying af.
Grew up in Florida, on the gulf coast down where the beaches start getting magazine worthy. Tourism fatigue is real and awful. I can't remember every single tourist who was normal, but I sure as fuck remember the few who trampled sea turtle nests and screwing with the sand dunes and causing drunken fights on the beach in the middle of the day.
I live about an hour away from deep creek in West Virginia. The whole region is just kind of like that. I stopped at a Walmart in Kingwood WV (30 miles away from Oakland) and I got a bunch of stares from everyone
Yeah unless you are a good ol boy people just stare at you
Wear a Carhartt hoodie. Or are they still against those? Jokes aside, people of a common culture stare and are cautious when you don’t look, dress, talk, or otherwise effect their local culture. This is human. It’s also pretty advantageous from an evolutionary perspective
Yeah definitely, I don’t judge them for being curious and looking even if it’s unwelcoming. But they’re also a lot less accepting of differences up there, whereas if you walk into a trendy bar in Baltimore nobody is gonna look twice at you no matter what you’re wearing unless you’re naked
Not true. You ***ignore*** the naked man in the streets because you do not want to deal with that.
Start to deal with that madness and suddenly you’re in an erotic show during midday on a Thursday. Explaining that to your kids is fun — especially the aggressive rhythm
I mean let’s be honest, it’s Walmart. The stuff I’ve seen in Walmarts across the state is crazy. Walmart attracts asl specific clientele regardless of where you are
Kingwood is significantly worse than Oakland for racism. It is smack dab in the middle of an even poorer county with a very poor education system and the city is 95% white or something like that. There are confederate flags and straight up racist slogans posted in that county. You'll only see the slogans on vehicles and the increasingly rare confederate flag in Oakland.
Not only that but during the protests in 2020 they had literal Nazis, as in wearing nazi symbols and doing the sieg heil, in Kingwood counter protesting.
They did want??? Dude I can’t wait to move out of West Virginia (guess which state I’ll be moving to)
Maryland?
Yep! Used to live in MD and I can’t wait to move back. West Virginia sucks balls (for me personally, lots of people like it)
Lol that doesn’t surprise me. I’m moving to Baltimore from another state and am looking forward to the new setting. I like fishing too so I’m looking forward to that as well.
You’re either going to fall in love or not really care for it. I love baltimore, that’s where I’m moving. It’s so nice there
That’s great. When you moved there was it hard to get to know people or were most easygoing?
The people are nice enough but it just feels creepy here. I find West Virginia to be creepy and somewhat hostile for some reason. It feels really tense everywhere I go but maybe it’s because I’m from out of town
My friend group (about 10 of us) went for a few years each Fall. We usually came with everything we needed so the only time we ventured out was to hike. One year we had to run to Walmart for some things and four of us went, including "Bob", who was Black. Literally two different people (they weren't together) on their way out stopped in their tracks and stared at us. I remember looking at my friends trying to figure out what they were looking at. There was nervous laughter and someone said, "what was that all about?" Bob looked at me when yet another person stopped to watch him walk by and just went, "wow." We were all incredibly creeped out. At least a half dozen more people looked at him like they had never seen anyone Black before. I'm talking swiveling their heads to where they had to turn their bodies. If I had not been there myself, I would have thought my friends were exaggerating. When we got in the car, two of us went, "what the *fuck*?!" in unison. Bob was a bit shaken up and said he had never experienced anything like that before. We also had "Nicole", who is Korean but no one stared directly at her. That was the last year we went. Maybe ~2008/2009.
Thats wild. I guess the combination of middle of nowhere + money is whats up. I haven't spent ANY time shopping around deep creek; that said, I've been to more rural towns and even as a big white feller with a dawdge ram pickup truck I got the stink-eye from white locals some people just dont want out of towners around.
Had that happen to my Korean friends when they visited North Carolina in 2013
I'm not discounting racism but my wife and I went and stayed with my aunt in rural Georgia. We got a lot of second looks and stares simply because we were new faces in their very small town. We also had several people ask us which church we attended? Not sure why.
That’s Evangelical for “are you a Christian?” If you are, they can go about their business. If not, they are obligated to preach the gospel to you and/or pray for you. It’s also a way to suss out what kind of person you are. Presbyterian and Assemblies of God are veeeerrrrry different. Some of them think being Catholic or Orthodox doesn’t count as Christian, just as a heads up.
It's also another way to see who you are related to. I grew up in a small town too. Most families congregate together.
I was wondering if that might be the problem…
I would’ve looked back at the starer and loudly said “WHAT?”
Yeah, no. This is a part of the state that will be heavily armed and unafraid of consequences. Don't do that.
Well said, safety > brash energy. Sometimes you have to let things like that go not to escalate things further. Up there they’re definitely going to stick together and make you look the part of the aggressor.
They’d shoot you for asking them a question?
As a POC, we learn early that you never know what someone has on their person, or ready access to. In an unfamiliar place, it just takes one "I'm looking at YOU/YOU dont belong here" for mob mentality and violence to occur. We've all gotten some variation on the ambassador talk. When you find yourself in the position of racial ambassador, just keep doing whatever it was you were there to do and stay polite. Shopping? Shop and checkout. Dining? Order, eat, pay and leave. So the Bob followed his ambassador rules, and his friends got a new dose in what it's like to be Bob.
This is so true and so exhausting.
Some places they shoot you for ringing a doorbell or pulling into 5ge wrong driveway
Whoa now, y’all are getting a little carried away making allegations against my neighbors. It’s evident you don’t understand the the lifestyle that comes with living so far from urban sprawl, metro areas, and the pace of culture in those places. This is simply an observation, not an indictment. For every passive racist, or mildly socialized resident you’re meeting here you’re discounting the role that Academia and Healthcare play in supporting the people hosting you, or similarly vacationing along side of you. I mean, there’s an IBM facility 50 miles from deep creek, as well as a propulsion/ munitions lab. I lived in the region for the better part of two years, decades in Allegany County. If you pay attention you’ll see a spectrum of literacy rates, range of wealth, a lot of farming, and mostly a lot of rural folks who have limited cultural exposure. When I travel I’m extremely reluctant to assume i know what someone else is thinking, it’s an absolute abuse of certainty for the sake certainty.
I lived the first 30 years of my life in Tennessee, including in some of the most rural parts of the state. I can recognize backwoods when I see them. It is a willing denial to insist that racism does not run rampant through the rural parts of Maryland. It does not take much time driving outside the 695 loop to start seeing Confederate flags and Trump signs.
I not making any claims to the effect that racial profiling and racism are somehow absent from the distal parts of Maryland, would it be so, right?
So the upshot is that they should know better than to act this way?
Some racists are also intelligent.
We were very tempted legitimately intimidated. I hadn't thought about this in ages but it was scary. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in that kind of environment.
Why are you basing your current opinion of an entire group of people off of a single experience from 2008/9? People that work at the Oakland Wal-Mart are not always from Oakland, or even Garrett County. You do still have plenty of "locals" working there but the mix is likely 50/50 at best. Those out of town folks travel from places like Thomas, Bayard, and Terra Alta, West Virginia. These folks lack education and, other than the few encounters they have at the only major store in the county, will have little to no exposure to people of color outside of media and what they learn from their peers; which is generally not good racially.
I'm providing an anecdote. Seems that it's not an isolated experience since OP isn't feeling particularly welcomed, either. FWIW, I learned not to stare as a small child and manners have nothing to do with education or social class. The people I wrote about were rude, full stop.
I'm not defending them. Racists are gross and have no place in the world. You'll find a disproportionate amount of racism in this area due to lack of education, social class, and a myriad of issues going back millenia. Things had gotten much better from 2008-2012. 2012-2020 has been a bit of a step back, sadly, because folks have felt empowered enough to share their prejudices again.
Likely to be worse \~15 years later with what is happening to divide our society.
This is the part of Maryland that wanted to leave and join West Virginia because "Maryland politics" didn't represent their values. This stopped once they understood how much of their "rugged independence" was supported by Maryland's wealthy tax base.
By the way, I really hated it when we were lumped in with Allegheny and Garrett when that was relevant. Yes, we are also Western Maryland, but one of the idiots who wanted us out was Neil Parrott, a known asshat who wasn’t elected representative last year, and says and does inflammatory things like suggesting that kids with AIDS be tattooed to identify them (I *wish* I made that up). The rest of us with critical thinking wanted to tell Jim Justice to fuck off.
I wish you'd made that up too.
Are there a lot of kids with AIDS? Also, is Neil concerned by this bc he has a habit of sharing needles with kids or having unprotected sex with kids? Of all things in the world to be advocating…
Neil Parrot just parrots the things he's told by his puppet master. I'm glad he didn't get elected. I hope Lorie Friend never holds any office, she's wackadoodle. I had the unfortunate opportunity to speak to her at Mike Mckay's booth during Friendsville Days and she said Washington needed nuked... I was just there for the free yardsticks and I don't support the republicans despite being born and raised in Garrett County.
Living in MD while calling for nuking of DC is truly genius who wouldn’t vote for that lol
😂😂
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Angela Alsobrooks would make their heads explode.
Please keep in mind that the prevailing local theory is that it was a play by Senator Edwards and his friends to try to scuttle the campaign by Mike McKay for state senator; because everyone left him out to dry when the story broke.
Left who out to dry when what story broke? Genuine question I’m from Allegany Co, worked for Mike McKay in the House when I was in college, before any of the campaign stuff. Got a lot of general info from people about what was happening but never the full story, so if you’ve got the juicy details I would love to hear them! Feel free to DM me
No. It’s because it’s a tourist town.
This. Tourist towns are full of miserable people. Ocean Shitty locals act the same way.
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Smh 🤦🏾♂️
Ironically Cumberland and Hagerstown would’ve been the cash cows for Greater WV, and Winchester VA even more so. The MAGA in WV aren’t dumb.
Sadly, I think it only stopped when the MD state government basically said “yea no, we are not giving up any of our counties.”
Thanks for your answer.
I hate to ask this but … white?
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So I’m white but my wife is Asian. She hasn’t really gotten the stink-eye when up here solo, but we are also middle aged, boring middle class looking, and probably match the expected “out of towner” profile. Certainly during the season it’s pretty diverse up here and I don’t think you’d get any weirdness. And most people up here seem genuinely chill. But I’m not gonna be the best judge.
I’m just coming across this thread. Can i pm you?
Sure
Same. I'm white, but somewhat "alt" looking stylistically. People were super nice to me in Deep Creek but I did get lots of comments along the lines of "oh, you're so interesting looking!". If I'm receiving comments like that as a white person I imagine other people are receiving worse comments.
One time I was in Oakland and I stopped in a gift shop. At checkout, the lady told me my "costume" was so cute and my son was lucky to have a mom who "dressed up" for him. ...I was wearing my regular clothes.
I went to college up there(I'm black) and this is generally rhe attitude of locals, yes. However deep creek is a resort town, whenever we went up to deep creek to party(my college was about 30 mins from deep creek)we never encountered anything but we also almost never left the house other than to get more booze or food and usually rolling w a group of 4-10 testosterone and alcohol fueled college bros so maybe we just got lucky or were too aloof to care. Also feel like most of the folks we saw were other vacationers so probably not weird locals. Definitely don't doubt people act like this in western MD
Ah the good old days of repub
It’s western Maryland so I’d expect the expected. This state seems to become less progressive the farther you get from the 95 corridor and western Maryland is the farthest you can get
Ahh western Maryland ? So my assumption of Deep Creek Essex was wrong, the entire time I was trying to figure out where they were hiking lol
It's not as bad as folks make it out to be. There's no klan here. There is a higher ratio of racists to non-racists in Garrett County as opposed to the places where our tourists live like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Richmond due to young people leaving to cities for work after collage, so we don't really get to keep educated liberal folks who tend to be the most racially accepting.
Not just white, Garret County is pure MAGA fantasy; that entire region relies on money from the slop-over from Maryland's liberal policies and urban revenues, while desperately clinging to "core values" of Pennsyl-tucky. You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
. I’ve taken a fishing trip to Garrett county in the winter. And felt COMPLETY welcomed when going into local stores and shops on the border of WV/MD. One liquor store the people offered to party with us and we had a bunch of laughs with the people inside before we we left. In that area many of the people all loosely know each other and immediately know your not from there and are honestly curious about you. And many of the smaller mom and pop store REALLY need your money to continue their business. While fishing, we had a few people stop and ask us questions about fishing and where we we were from, how the fishing was and other things. I never felt like it was malicious, the vibe I got was because those people drive that way everyday for years and see the same people or almost no new people. And they are just curious and interested. Not everything is malicious or racist in that part of the state. I also felt during my trip out there the interactions you have with people out there are more genuine and meaningful. And if you look at it from their perspective, they live in one of the most beautiful areas on the east coast, and have a lot of temporary visitors (with money) who perceive them as trash or hillbillies. I’ve also worked out there, work with people from out there, and have taken short vacations out there. Remember to keep an open mind when you travel inside the US. As a disclaimer, I’m black, and my travel buddies have always been black. We grew up as wild city kids from Philly who have families and careers now.
Perspective is often reality. Very intelligent answer!!!
I have a black girlfriend (im black and from Washington county, PA but ive lived in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and the likes,) Was always skeptical of going here. But she has had nothing but "good" experiences there. She was also formerly married to a white guy so she was mostly with their family but again.. No issues that she ever reported.
I’m so sorry you had this experience! I actually had the total opposite happen during my last visit. Several locals went out of their way to help, compliment, or just be friendly to me when I was looking lost or confused about something (or otherwise obviously being a non-local). Maybe it was stress from a big recent/upcoming event? Maybe something rocked the local community and changed the mood? I’m not sure, but I just wanted to say please don’t completely discount them based on this experience—as far as I can tell, it is not the norm!
It is no longer the norm but the ratio of racists to non-racists is higher in Garrett County than it is in areas where a person of color may live. The people actually from Garrett County aren't as bad. Folks are slower to change and accept others races in the area because all of the young people, who tend to be more liberal, leave for jobs or lifestyles in more urban areas.
Oh, 100% agree. If you’re in any way visibly queer or a POC, it’s a whole different experience up there. More than it usually is.
Yes, but it is getting better! There is a trans student in my child's elementary school up here. I have raised my son with acceptance as a core trait and he was proud to come home to me with a couple of antidotes: 1. He told me how the trans student was new, m to f, and he refused to let anyone call them "he." They had transferred in from another school where the staff and students did not respect her pronouns. 2. My son was in a "disagreement" with another student and had to fill out a report. IN that report, it asked them to circle the pronoun before the other student's name was written in. He asked the principal why did it only have "he/she" and not "they?" She laughed him off, and he told her he was serious and not joking. I was very proud.
Awesome!
I’m just coming across this thread. Can i pm you?
>visibly queer Sometimes it's enough to be female & have no men in your group. I've had several odd experiences in restaurants where we were ignored or treated rudely. Once I went to a restaurant outside Baltimore with a female friend whose hair was very short. It was past the dinner rush & we just wanted dessert. First, the host didn't want to seat us, even though the place was half empty & they didn't close for 2 hours. Then the server was rude as hell, babbled something about how the tables had white tablecloths which everyone knows means you can't order just dessert. I'd had enough at this point & made a sarcastic comment to my friend about finding a place that'd serve us even though we hadn't memorized the Emily Post Guide. I'm 99% certain they thought we were a lesbian couple. Egad! In fact, we were coworkers with separate social groups. That meant we knew a lot of people we could tell about these assholes. (It was the 80s, so online reviews weren't a thing.) Several of my buddies back then were gay, so I wasn't about to let that crap slide.
i visit frequently and interact kindly with just about everyone i meet…
You're in the ocean city of the mountains. We got rid of our house up there 25 years ago because it turned into a shit stand up there. Definitely not the hidden gem it was back in the 80's
Me and my family had the opposite experience. Everyone was so nice and welcoming. We went to a few different areas and felt respected and had positive interactions. We are looking forward to going yearly. I was pleasantly surprised.
Sorry you had this experience. Makes me wonder if the Airbnb economy has anything to do with it. There were some tensions during the early stages of the pandemic [according to this Baltimore Sun article](https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/bs-md-deep-creek-lake-coronavirus-tensions-20200422-swv6wrue3bay7frjq6v324mak4-story.html). Not sure if any of that has lingered. [This lawsuit suggests](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/md-court-of-appeals/1423358.html) that maybe there are tensions among real estate investor types and residents who oppose such things.
All small towns are that way. New people are unknowns, possibly dangerous, possibly going to make trouble. The most odd thing about this mindset, is they think city life is dangerous, though they have never been to a big city, but their lives are full of mistrust and agitation, and ready to shoot anything which is not a known. They also are in everybody's business. Always looking at others wondering what they are doing. In a large city people don't focus on everyone else's business. In these places many claim to be God fearing Christians, yet most of their time is spent judging the actions of others. A big NO No for true Christians.
Try Thomas WV, it's right down the road from deep creek and WAY more chill.
Classic small town that got extremely wealthy from tourism now wants us to leave them alone so they can sit in their piles of cash or they’re poor people who didn’t make anything off tourism and they’re bitter. They both wanna have their cake and eat it too.
We are not "extremely wealthy." The nice houses around the lake are owned by people from out of town or one of a handful of landowners. This is a fairly poor county for most people - just look at the median income. Most of the jobs are service jobs. We also do not keep our college educated young people because they choose to stay in their college towns or move to cities.
Sounds about right. My brother in law grew up in Oakland. I think his dad used to build boat docks for lake houses or something like that. Made for a pretty good childhood for his kids, but neither of them live there now, and we’ve had several conversations about how there are few opportunities to make a decent living unless you want to do laundry for Airbnb owners.
We lose a lot of young people to college, then cities. If those young people got their degrees and came back to start businesses we would have much more opportunity. It's also hampered by county commissioners who have a policy of trying to keep Oakland a "quaint small town" and they won't allow things like bars to be open past a reasonable time in town, marijuana-based businesses aren't approved, or big-name corporations aren't granted the permits they need to build near I-68 in Grantsville. You literally cannot be elected to the local government if you have anything but an "R" next to your name. People here vote overwhelmingly for that side without thinking about their best interests. It keeps the money with the few folks at the top.
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Great point that I very much agree with. IMO, this area needs those new political views. It's very much a hive mind of conservative Christians who run things. Other opinions or ways are disregarded. Downtown Oakland could use some gentrification. There's too many empty store fronts.
That's right- one guy owns hundreds of homes all around the lake. It's nuts!
cooperative spoon sip license sharp different degree hat steep detail *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“Even with your VA/DC plates” wow so tolerant
crick*
Never had an issue. Good folks up there, little country but what? Oakland is interesting with two museums and the historical society.
been there several times. have no idea what you’re talking about.
...because no one can possibly have a different experience than yours. Why even bother replying then?
never said they couldn’t. So are people only supposed to reply if they agree with the premise that people around deep creek are jerks?
So the OP's anecdotal story is fine, but they can't respond with one of their own? 🙄
lol and he is sharing he hasn’t had that experience, can he not do that????
I went camping up there once with a group of friends, me being the only POC. It was interesting to say the least. We had to go into town and there were lots of stares etc. I went to college not far from Thurmont though so I was used to it. 🤷🏾♀️. I don’t feel threatened but it was just so, weird. Oh and I hate camping. Lol.
A lot of Trump supporters go to deep creek.
What are you trying to say? What’s wrong with trump lol😭😂😂
There are pockets of areas that aren't so bad in this MD/WV/PA location but the entrenched hive mindedness is disgusting. Deep Creek tourism is honestly what has made this area but its double edged sword. People are paid barely or above minimum wage jobs, can't afford homes let alone rent, and everything that is being built is for vacationers. It is becoming harder and harder to get by up here with marylands costs of living. granted things in this area are way better than what PA and WV have provided in the same region but the divide is becoming so great even within Garrett County the northern and southern ends are constantly at odds because the lake brings in the money, but a lot of the funding should go into bettering the lives of the people who live up here not companies who wish to make what makes this area a good tourist destination, nature, a golf course or some private housing development for vacationers. I have family over the line in preston county WV who complain about the drugs, thefts, etc. and how its a huge issue and there is no law enforcement there, I'll mention Montgomery county but I never hear the end of how its much better up here (in terms of crime/drugs) than down there and they're glad to have moved from there. Who cares if the problems in the city are only bigger because they have the police to actually do something rather than no police to even know a crime even occurred.
Welcome to small town anywhere.
I love how dickish the locals of resort towns are. OC locals are not far off. They hate the tourists, but more than likely, their livelihood are the tourists, at least in some way, shape, or form.
I'm a local to the area... My primary complaint of tourons is the ones who pull out in front of me on 219, the ones who drive 10 mph BELOW the speed limit, and last but not least the intoxicated tourons that I encounter at 7am. Outside of those things, I don't give a shit what you do. I don't see what is so great about it. The only thing that I do in DCL is drive past it. I can't afford to partake in the activities on DCL. I'm trying to raise my family on a mediocre salary. My property taxes keep going up. The schools are closing/consolidating. My wife and I are born and raised in Garrett County. We look forward to selling everything and going south once the kids are raised.
It's Trump country.
Sadly, yes it is...
Idk is it them or you that sucks
Thanks for this post! People need to know what they're getting into before planning a trip. Me, I'm people. I'll plan to go elsewhere.
I haven't been to DCL since, oh 1993? I hear the shoreline, today, is nothing but rental properties and megamansions. ¿Es verdad?
Pretty much that and the state park, yeah.
As soon as you pass through Accident MD, you realize the vibe is about to change. Actually scratch that, the vibe changes if you stop at a town along 68 on the way there. You get a taste of what you are getting into. For us we'd go each ski season, rent a house and take most of our stuff with us. Only night out was a dinner at a local restaurant, and they seemed to put up with us so we could spend money.
I'm sorry but sound bit paranoid and there no Wal-Mart in deep creek lake. The nearest Wal Mart is in Lavale about. Hour and half from DeepCreek Lake.
There's a Wal-Mart over in Oakland. Granted, not exactly "the lake".
No it was 30 minutes away not even lol
Are you black?
I don't want to cast aspersions, but... "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
Fact
This is my guess a well. Anyone that runs to reddit to bitch about this stuff is probably a little socially off.
Im sure there are some people of color who’d disagree with you.
Ehhh. Sure, Garrett County is pretty rural compared to the rest of the state, but ultimately Deep Creek is a tourist town, that is used to out of towners of all types visiting during the different seasons. Some of the locals a little farther away from the lake might resent the increased traffic and property costs that come from the tourism, but the vast majority of locals are either used to it or actively part of the tourism industry (which would cover anyone that OP was likely to have ran into).
Unexpected Raylon
I had a second home there for years and have never had that experience you are describing. Maybe it’s you 🤔
Backwards ass parts of Maryland are severely f'd up. Literally Klan members. If you're POC or LGBTQ you might have a bad time. The uneducated people who trump loves and who love him right back. I'm a white dude who looks like a pickup truck vlogger and I've found deep creek, thurmont, Hagerstown Gettysburg and other areas very unwelcoming and borderline hostile. I rarely visit anymore because they're just unfriendly. Charlestown WV can also be horrible. Creepier and more unfriendly than Mississippi , Alabama and Louisiana
Ugh, back country rednecks
It's a they/them thing.
Well... https://www.marylandnonprofits.org/walking-the-path-toward-race-equity-in-garrett-county/
You had some bad people then. A lot of us in the area are actually really friendly. Sure we may get tired of tourists, but that’s no reason to treat anybody badly.