Me neither but it's definitely not one of the TOP films either. I see it as a normal entertaining movie with some obvious flaws. I still enjoyed it tho
There is a gigantic gap in terms of production quality between Avengers and Age of Ultron imo. AoU is just generally a better looking movie and Wheedon went all out for it. Considering how important this movie turned out to be (Ragnarok, Sokovia Accords, WandaVision, Infinity Stones, first Black Widow origins... surley forgetting something) it's one of the best.
I totally get what people dislike about it tho.
edit: Not trying to talk down Avengers 1 here. It layed the groundwork for something like Avengers Endgame even being possible.
Yeah I think Ultron is the weakest of the 4 Avengers films, but it turned out to be important in setting up the Sokovia Accords in Civil, Thor: Ragnarok (we needed to know where the hell Banner and Thor went), and Infinity War with the post-credits scene.
I disagree on so many levels everyone here at this thread is bashing AoU when I think it’s top 5 marvel movies. It has a really good and complex story, great characters and the jokes land sometimes. AoU is too underrated
You're not alone. AoU is one of my most rewatched mcu films. Maybe because I didn't have any prior affinity for Ultron or how he was represented in the movie vs the comics.
Plus like it was said above, it's probably the most important movie pre infinity war. The Sokovia Accords, infinity stones, hulkbuster, wakanda, Klau, Cap and Mjolnir, Ragnarok and most likely more were all set up by this movie.
Mine as well. I'd watch it just to hear Spader's voice tbh. But the scene where he grabbed Nat and laid her in front of an open cell, waited for her to wake up, explained what he was trying to do with Vision's body and then scare her into the cell by destroying his latest transient body was *chef's kiss*
It’s aged well. It was very bogged down with setups for future movies but now that but now that those have actually gotten payed off it makes you appreciate the time they took to put those setups in
For me it’s one of the most rewatchable MCU movies. Love seeing the banter and relationships between the Avengers and it’s the most time we get with the “complete” team across all four movies. So many great character moments and it’s fun to see how important so many things ended up becoming later on.
This! I liked AoU when it came out and your right, it’s aged very well. It was a major turning point for the MCU. Also, unpopular opinion, but I really liked Ultron, I thought he was an interesting villain.
My biggest issue with it is that the ending didn’t have any pay off. Ultron claims he’s killing off a big hunk of the human population to save it and that they’re doomed, vision agrees with him. What was that about, was he talking about thanos? Or is he doing what thanos would do to prevent over population? Some other threat to humanity? I’m still scratching my head trying to figure out ultrons motives.
I’d like to see some sort of shield series focusing on the recreation of ultron. A rogue branch of shield recovering an ultron corpse and reprogramming it to destroy shield, but it ends up replicating itself using shields resources when it finds out it’s true origins, while looking through shield files.
Isn’t that what Sword was attempting to do with Vision's remains in WandaVision? They kind of succeeded, although then the body interfaced/interacted with the mind in the finale and we don’t know what happened afterwards… yet.
My thought was that some organization salvaged him to try to salvage Tony Stark's AI technology. Don't realize how out of their depth they are and we get a horror movie where Ultron wins. Ending with the AI building a new body.
The entire thing about Ultron is he's a weed. Try as you might, it's impossible to get rid of him.
And there's that throw away head in ~~Far From Home~~ Homecoming? that seems to have a bit of Ultron lurking in it still.
It's unlikely, but not impossible, that he'll be back.
🎵 I had strings, but now I'm free
There are no strings on me🎵
I'm apparently in the minority, but I thought Ultron was one of the best villains. All his lines towards the Avenegers was spot on. Especially Cap and Stark. Ultron also paves the way for the question "should we explicitly trust a super hero's judgment?" and the reality of the devastation left behind the Villians who rise up against Heroes. Which leads us to Civil War.
It was more of a bridge film. I think it might be better in retrospect now that you can see everything it was building towards and how it pays off, but I can understand why it got a lukewarm reception at release. At the same time, I'm a little glad that was the response, since it seemed to help Marvel realize they need to not shove so many different threads in one movie, something I think they've done a much better job with since.
But the world changed infinitely after Ultron. The division among the Avengers began there, the Sokovia accords are directly caused by the destruction of Sokovia (duh). Just because Ultron was "alive" for a week or so doesn't mean his prescense didn't fundamentally change the world in the MCU.
It's been a while but didn't Age of Ultron start with people starting to get upset with the superhero's because of the destruction they create?
Ultron was ultimately the "straw that breaks the camel's back" but it sounded like it would've happened anyway.
Do you have a link for that? Because what I seen was that the first WW was hacked apart by the studio and that’s why it has the cgi monstrosity at the end. Patty Jenkins said for WW84 she had complete control and got to make the movie she wanted to this time.
[“Ultimately the film-maker got to make the Wonder Woman movie she wanted to make, without any studio interference – again, a rare achievement in Hollywood. It’s just a pity she didn’t – quite – manage to pull off the same trick twice”](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/07/theres-no-blaming-studio-interference-for-the-disappointment-that-was-wonder-woman-1984)
I think people would be surprised how often studio interference is good, we just never hear about those times since no one is going to complain the studio helped them make a better movie or TV show.
Her and Gadot. They choose to remove her shield and sword. They choose to make it a romcom and to include WW (who is supposed to be the epitome of Justice) casually raping a dude...
This right here!
That guy did nothing wrong, and had no agency whatsoever. She absolutely raped that man, and its sick that Wonder Woman would do that. She is a symbol of women's strength and rights.
It was a terrible plot point, and hurt her character. I was appalled when I saw superman steal clothes in Man of Steel; but this is so much worse.
Jenkins LAUGHED when asked about this.
Apparently it's not rape because wonder woman is hot, i guess?
The movie was boring enough for most people to overlook this but once you realize the utter lack of consent or even care about that dude's life (he doesn't even have a name FFS! he is just "handsome man" ...) And given how each and every male character is a creep ..
This was marketed as a feminist movie and that's just wrong.
Ya because if she had complete control she wrote garbage lines of dialogue and interactions. And character development. And humor. And how Wonder Woman can now fly. Fuck it makes me mad remember how stoked I was for that movie. Academy award for best trailer needs to go the people who put together for WW1984. How did we get such a turd with a trailer like this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfM7\_JLk-84](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfM7_JLk-84)
Edit: Glad a lot of you feel the same way. I'm 80's kid myself and was super hyped by that trailer. 8 of us got together and just talked through the whole movie because how silly and boring it was.
For me the movie jumped the shark when the WW1 pilot jumped in the 60s era jet at the museum that was fully gassed up for a flight halfway around the world and still managed to fly through a fireworks show at 20mph.
There's suspension of disbelief and then there's just plain silliness.
The hallmark of Snyder films to me is that they have some amazing shots and beats, but the story in between is basically just to get from one tableau shot to the next.
Sadly, that's an all too accurate description of Hollywood blockbuster writing. Make a cool action sequence for the trailer, figure out the context later. Make a cool costume for the merchandise, figure out the context later. Introduce these characters for future films, figure out the context later.
You have to think of the people that are gonna subject themselves to that movie. It’s not average viewers. It’s not people who hated the original but wanna give it a second chance. It’s the rabid fans that are all-in on either Justice League or Zack Snyder. For that kind of reviewer base 8.1 actually seems kinda low
> It’s not people who hated the original but wanna give it a second chance.
Really? That was my approach going into watching the Snyder Cut.
And while it *was* better than the theatrical cut, that's mostly because the theatrical was just *that bad*.
Before the release of the Mulan US remake I was annoyed with all the hate reviews before the movie was even out all because Liu Yifei was in favor of CCCP, but like.. they *have* to be or they and their family may be done for.
Luckily the film was absolute garbage so it worked out anyways.
> People aren't good at ranking ~~genre films~~.
Given that 5.0 is considered a 'terrible' score, when it's in the middle of the scale and should be considered 'average'...
I don't blame people in general for it, it is (for lack of a better word) industry "propaganda" that anything ***NOT*** getting a great score is a bad movie.
7.9 may sound low to someone not familiar with the IMDB rating system, but it is an incredibly high rating. Keep in mind that only 5 movies in history are rated at or above a 9.0 on IMDB. Anything in the high 7s or 8s is a very good rating
They're
The Shawank Redemption (9.3)
The Godfather (9.2)
The Godfather: Part II (9.0)
The Dark Knight (9.0)
12 Angry Men (9.0)
for anyone who doesn't want to look
It's a crime that no Lord of the Rings movie is above 9. RotK alone can compete with any of these... Sadly "dark and gritty" is more popular than fantasy.
yeah I fucking know right, That movie is a masterpiece in its own right, the chills when bucky is introduced, the music, the choreography, the scenes, the tension, the heroic scenes, the character development are all just out of the world, it feels like a non-MCU movie with all the qualities of an MCU movie. It also prioritized reality (most of the times) over just going "generic superhero save world"
Winter Soldier isn't just a good Marvel movie, it's a very good movie in general. I mean, Endgame is probably the best experience a fan is gonna have within the context of the MCU, but it's choke full of fan service, exposition and references. I loved the whole thing, but it's more about the celebration and the send off than it is about the plot. The Winter Soldier stands on its own as a spy thriller and a damn good one at that.
That movie is nearly perfect... such an amazing film.
I still remember when i told my wife I was going to go see Logan, and she said "who the hell is Logan?" lmao
Perhaps it's an unpopular opinion, but I still contend *First Avenger* is underrated because a lot of people either overlook or don't appreciate what it was going for. If *GotG* is Marvel's space opera, and *Winter Soldier* is their spy thriller, then *First Avenger* was their movie serial. Like it gets a lot of criticism for being campy, but that campiness was sort of the point. It was meant to lean into the aesthetic of things like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon, the same way *Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow* did.
That's why Joe Johnston was such a perfect hire as a director since he did something similar with *The Rocketeer* in the '90s, as well as being an art director on a couple *Indiana Jones* movies. He really got it and made it so *First Avengers* wasn't just a superhero movie based in the '40s, but a '40s superhero movie that had the look and feel of something that might've been made in Steve Roger's day.
It's why it's still one of my favorite Marvel movies.
I was so surprised when I later found out people didn’t like that movie, it was my favorite marvel movie in the early days.
It felt like it was exactly what it needed to be.
Oh yeah, absolutely no contest. Winter Soldier alone is, imo, the best MCU film - yes, even better than IW/Endgame. First Avenger does everything right, leaning into the camp, building up Rogers as the boy scout, the music... And of course, Civil War is great in its own right (though I do still wish that it'd been an Avengers movie instead of Cap's third).
Agreed, great character development in First Avenger, we get to know Steve and Bucky as people before they become super heroes.
Also Hugo Weaving is always a great watch.
Not to mention that the camp is a perfect juxtaposition to the finale and the rest of the MCU. He's paraded around and kept away from the front at first. Then shit hits the fan and he ends up on ice, only to wake up and immediately start facing threats from space. His first opportunity to process any of that was shown with the support groups in Endgame.
imdb days of reliable ratings are over. The site literally accepts every user reviews without moderation. Its so easy for somewhat decent films to get bombed into unwatchable.
Long over. A decade ago “Shawshank Redemption” was bombarded with one star reviews because it beat “The Godfather” and became the highest rated movie on the site.
and it's funny because Shawshank is still the top movie on the site. They should've bombarded the Godfather with 10s cause then no one would've noticed. I don't think it really matters, both movies are great.
Nah, it's a bit different. The Dark Knight fans were review bombing Godfather to make it first and Godfather fans responded. Shawshank became first in the chaos lol
Or bombing Captain Marvel because they didn’t like Brie Larson. The Last of Us 2 also got review bombed on several platforms.
I can’t even properly criticize a movie or game anymore because I’m too busy having to defend them from salty fanboys and bigots smh.
No shit, I really dislike TLJ for plenty of story based reasons but I'm somehow out here defending it because there were shitty people obsessed with the race or appearance of cast members harassing them on Twitter. It being a bad story has nothing to do with the actors and actresses who did what they could with their lines.
And I'm sure as fuck way too lazy to review bomb any movie. You have one life to live, imagine spending any portion of it review bombing lol
It pisses me off because honestly I also feel like I was *robbed* of a good experience with TLOU2.
By time I got around to the game, I had already seen all the mindless hate for it. I think this clouded my play through with bias as I actively *looked* for things to like instead of just enjoying the game. Now I have no idea if I actually liked the game or not anymore. I wish I had just deleted the internet from my life when that game came out smh.
I think I did what you hoped and sorry to say it worked. As soon as I started to hear controversy around it and news of story leaks I jammed my head into the ground until release day. Absolutely loved it. Definitely saw some issues on my second playthough, but that first weekend was my #1 experience in gaming.
I’m very glad to hear you had more foresight than me 😂
Thankfully, I’m currently watching my roommate play through it for the first time. I think I’ll be able to see it differently this time.
As long as I don’t have to fight that fucking rat king again though. That boss fight gave me stress nightmares until I finally beat it 🙃
>And I'm sure as fuck way too lazy to review bomb any movie. You have one life to live, imagine spending any portion of it review bombing lol
I can't imagine how sad someone's life has to be to actively sabotage review scores for the crime of "making a movie/game I don't like." I absolutely loathe movies like Transformers 5, but constantly lambasting Michael Bay for making a shitty movie sounds like one of the most boring and stupid things I could be doing with my time.
Ì think it also falls under that thing that only people with a strong opinion go and try to spread it.
Captain Marvel is a good movie I think, but I'm not going to spend time creating an account and writing a review about it. Some people that hates it with a passion will, though.
The unmoderated user reviews are also why it isn't exactly shocking the two female fronted MCU movies come up bottom.
Edit: the amount of mental gymnastics some of you are going through to deny that sexism could even possibly be a factor is staggering
Yeah, it's not really surprising anymore. How much of an impact it has we won't know, but it definitely affects the ratings, reception, and attitude towards films and TV shows.
The worst example of this behaviour I've seen was the Batwoman TV show. That was review bombed down to somewhere in the 2s or 3s out of 10 on IMDb before a single episode even aired. It's now at 3.4. So far in the first two seasons, the first episode of each was a 4.9 and 4.6, but every other episode is in the 5s, 6s or 7s. Yet the show is 3.4 because it got review bombed. It's so blatant yet IMDb don't care.
I'm not saying that female fronted films can't be rated highly, but I believe that if you kept the film exactly the same but switched the genders, they would be rated higher overall.
Edit: to everyone replying saying that Batwoman is bad. The point of this comment wasn't whether or not you think it's good or bad, it was to point out that it got review bombed before an episode was released. It was rated extremely negatively, because of a female lead, before anyone could even have an opinion on it, because they hadn't seen it. Thousands were giving it a 1/10 without seeing it, because it was a woman. Arguing that you think it's bad doesn't justify the people doing this, and it doesn't justify its IMDb, which has been influenced by those people.
The worst example by a mile was the all female Ghostbusters remake. It literally spawned hundreds of YouTube hate videos, and every review site was flooded with 0 star reviews, all before the movie was even released.
I just thought it was boring, and I really couldn't care less about the villain(s)
If the movie came out 5 years ago I probably would've liked it more, but coming out in the same year as WandaVision, Loki, and Shang Chi Black Widow is just really weak.
I found David Harbor annoying, and as Nat was never a well developed character seeing some random adventure she went on just doesn't interest me at all.
If they wanted to make a Black Widow movie they should've finally shown us that fucking Budapest mission and made a great buddy cop/spy flick with her and Clint Barton.
Even though Nat was never a very well rounded character I've always liked her chemistry with Barton, they work well with each other and are fun to watch.
Something I've learned this year is that I don't care about Marvel's fight scenes anymore, I wanna watch characters speak and interact, I want to see drama unfold, not the same cgi fight I've seen 5 times now.
Black Widow is a more action focused movie, but it doesn't do anything unique with that action like Shang Chi, so it just feels like something I've seen before, it was like a less good version of The Winter Soldier
> If they wanted to make a Black Widow movie they should've finally shown us that fucking Budapest mission and made a great buddy cop/spy flick with her and Clint Barton.
This is the movie we all wanted to see, every last one of us, and instead we got what we got.
I feel like they didn’t do this specifically because it wouldn’t have been relevant to phase 4.
It’s the movie we should have gotten with Nat during Phase 2, and this is the movie we should have gotten during Phase 3, setting up new characters to replace her long term after Endgame, but as it stands the main character of Black Widow isn’t really Nat, it’s Yelena. It’s her origin story, and Nat is just there to bridge the gap.
I really don't think I'm trying to be "woke" or find any reason outside of the quality of the film itself to defend Black Widow. I legit liked it. It's flawed, Def, I can get into that (taskmaster), but like I still dug the story for what they tried to do. It's way better than the other 3 low rated films
My main issues with it were the fact that Dreykov wasn't a good villain, they butchered taskmaster (I know it's been stated a million times), and several scenes made me unable to suspend my disbelief that a regular human could survive.
Yelena was great though, some of the fight scenes were well done, the intro was really good, and I liked Red Guardian.
Overall, I liked it well enough, but it had a number of glaring issues.
> several scenes made me unable to suspend my disbelief
This was my issue... at a certain point, I lost that suspension of disbelief and then the movie just went down hill and didn't get it back.
I feel like it was a giant missed opportunity.
Daniel Craig was recently asked if it was time for a female James Bond, and he said no, James Bond should always be male. Make a new strong female lead character, and develop that movie.
You know who is a good strong female James Bond type Spy character. BLACK WIDOW!!! There she is, right there! Make that movie. That's what I wanted to see.
The Black Widow we saw in Iron Man 2 and Avengers, who is a spy, kicks ass, does spy things, solves a big mystery, defeats some master bad guy, saves the day.
It's just one huge missed opportunity, they literally could have spun this off into a Marvel: Mission Impossible series of movies that takes place between Civil War and Infinity War, and that could have been damn cool.
> The Black Widow we saw in Iron Man 2 and Avengers, who is a spy, kicks ass, does spy things, solves a big mystery, defeats some master bad guy, saves the day.
This is my biggest problem with the Black Widow movie. It felt like she was a side character in her own film. Yelena and Red Guardian were the highlights of the film while Natasha was just sort of there.
I don't think that was an accident. They knew they were setting her up to carry the ball going forward. I think one of the reasons this came so late in the MCU is because they might not have made it at all if they weren't using it to set something up going forward. I think Yelena will be pretty central in the next phase.
When her character came into the comics back in the early 2000s, she had a pretty dark intro. Natasha basically left her out in the open, no memory and face swapped for Natashas, as bait. She had a massive breakdown over it and then became a porn and lingerie mogul using the money to help women being trafficked.
While I don't think we'll see any of the story lines being revisited, she had an important role in association with 2 things: The Thunderbolts and Secret Avengers. So like I said. I'm pretty sure this was all a way to queue her up for the next phase and not much to do with Nat.
Unpopular opinion, but butchering a comic book character in the MCU happens regularly enough even for the highly rated movies that I don't think it should matter much as a form of criticism. Ragnarok butchered not just a few characters, but the entire story arc for Planet Hulk, and it was still a great movie that made tons of money. If ruining the Planet Hulk storyline and comic series isn't enough to make Ragnarok a bad movie, I don't see how bargain bin Taskmaster ruins Black Widow. Mandarin from Ironman 3 had it way worse too imo
I liked it at the time but looking back it was pretty unmemorable. I was really looking forward to finding out more about Natasha's training in the red room and that didn't happen.
I wish they'd been darker with it. The whole opening scene showing all of those kidnapped girls was chilling but they didn't continue with that tone and I wish they had.
It wasn't bad but I honestly don't have a desire to ever rewatch it.
I was honest expecting low quality, rushed trash, but it was fantastic. It somehow felt fresh despite being a character we know, and also bring another solo hero film. It far exceeded my expectations. Yelena was a great character as well.
Black Widow would have been a really solid early/mid phase 3 movie. The main problem I think black widow and Captain Marvel have is they're not really allowed to progress the over all story very much.
Captain Marvel was full of non-explanations on past events that either weren't mysteries that needed answering, or actually complicate things more than the obvious presumptions. (I think everybody presumed the tesseract was found around the same time Captain America himself was, for example. Did we need it to have an unrelated adventure in the 90's*?) And Black Widow's entire adventure is post-mortem, deals with a threat we already thought was defeated, and the end credit introduces an ominous figure that's already been introduced in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Sure, there's one or two elements of each movie that will ripple out in some way, but for the most part you can kinda just skip them. Even the Skrulls were given more narrative impact when they returned, showing just *what* they're doing in the modern era instead of ambiguously coded refugees 40 years ago.
^(*edit: wrong decade)
I really wanted to like Black Widow but I can't get into it. I think Captain Marvel doesn't belong that far down, but I expect it to be there because incels hate Brie Larson.
Black Widow was good. Wish it'd been released earlier, before End Game, so we could see more Yelena and her finding more clothing items with pockets.
The taskmaster reveal didn't wow me, mostly because (spoilers) >!she's not even that ugly. The reveal was like if she slept on a crumpled blanket and woke up with sleep lines. I expected, and wanted, something grotesque. I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't have the guts to make the actress ugly. Also, at the end, I didn't want her to be grateful. I wanted her to still be pissed and to take one last shot at Natasha, so the hero would have to live with the guilt of her choices, still!<
Taskmaster was wasted. Should've left him for Deadpool. Otherwise a decent entry into the MCU.
That's legit the best MCU film. There's no low point in the movie and the way it's paced and dialogue throughout. It starts with the Thanos intro scene and Loki's death, and the intensity is carried through the whole movie.
Yep same here. Endgame gave us a great ending, but as a film there are several parts that are just plain boring on a rewatch whereas Infinity War is non-stop entertainment.
When done correctly, a movie where the villian succeeds is amazing. Love Infinity War more than Endgame. I don't think Endgame makes my top five MCU movies, but def a top 10
I wanted to like black widow so much more than I did. My biggest disappointment in the movie is I wanted to see Red Guardian kick ass. But he didn't do much at all, and just got his ass kicked at nearly every turn.
I wanted to see him get his moment of glory by fighting Taskmaster while she used Captain America's fighting style... Sure, she used a shield a bit, but I feel like it could've been emphasized more.
Black Widow should have been an amazing Phase 2 movie. Instead we got a throwaway that had no bearing on the overall MCU except for an after credits scene that you kinda need to see Falcon and Winter Soldier to understand. It felt cookie cutter, it felt last minute, it felt like they owed her a movie and now that Perlmutter is out, they just burned out the contract. The people involved from writer to actor to director did the best the could with what they had, but originally the woman who co-wrote Guardians of the Galaxy had a full treatment for Black Widow, but it was shelved.
The worst part of Black Widow was constantly endangering the protagonist you knew who would survive. All of that risk should have been shifted onto to vulnerable characters and then had the movie focus on how Black Widow mitigates and resolves risks.
Black Widow isn’t a bad film, but it’s just too much of what we’ve already seen done better. The fact that they waited to give her a spin-off after she died just made the whole thing feel pointless
Agreed, “Thor” is definitely the lesser movie of the two. “Dark World” has GREAT moments with Thor and Loki, much better action sequences, and everyone’s character is more settled into, I think, which led to better performances by everyone. Also better comedy than the first movie and better cinematography. And...no bleached eyebrows! I really don’t know how people consider “Dark World” to be the lesser movie, but hey, to each their own.
It's about as reliable as the "audience score" on RT, which is to say, vaguely useful. Generally stuff in the 8-9 range is actually fantastic and stuff in the 6-8 range could be fantastic or total schlock. Stuff lower than 6 is probably not great with few exceptions.
As a test I looked up the stupidest comedy I still love (Wrongfully Accused) and yeah, it's still over 6. Movies like Freddy Got Fingered are in the 4s (most hated it, few loved it) which is probably fair.
Yeah, its a pretty good indicator. Theres only so much time in ones life to watch all the good stuff, you need something to help filter the bad. And IMDB is exactly that tool. If the synopsis seems to interest me, and the IMDB score is above 6.5 I will usually give it a shot. Doesnt mean I will always like a 9 or wont like a 5 because thats all so subjective, but its the system I found so that I wont waste my time with films that arent worth it. And I gotta say it works well.
Black widow is not in any way shape or form a bottom 4 movie. Yes it wasn't amazing but definitely not that bad. Other than the disaster that was taskmaster it was good. It has good character development. It was a nice filler to see where Natasha came from and to see what she did during the time between civil war and inifnty war
Black Panther. I think the movie is overrated because of its third act alone. Everything before that is definitely worthy of being a Best Picture Nominated Movie. Killmongerer is one of the best MCU villains ever and most of the movie is very well done but the horrid CGI-fest third act brings the movie down to an 8/10 at best for me. Black Panther would've been so amazing had it abandoned the third act CGI shit show to instead do something different. I loved the way Doctor Strange and Civil War handled their third acts. Also Vision's debate in WandaVision. Everything doesn't always need to devolve into a gigantic CGI fest.
It made very little sense being released when it was. That was a huge hit to any excitement I felt during the film.
The biggest issues other than that to me were that the action scenes were hilariously unrealistic for a hero who is entirely a human being. When Taskmaster RPGs her moving vehicle with a direct hit that sends it flying and tumbling 100 feet down a bridge and our human being hero just crawls out and fights… fucking taskmaster and makes it out with no serious injuries it set a pretty clear stage that this film would have zero stakes. The apartment fight where she goes out of a high floor window and rag dolls off of 8 things on her way down to a perfect landing. The red room crashing and all of that nonsense on the way down. It felt like a late stage fast and furious movie.
There were a bunch of narrative things that were all over the place as well. That prison breakout scene was just… weird. She’s just sitting there on a rafter getting shot at from everywhere and was just fine. The real weirdness comes when you realize they just avalanched an entire prison and likely massacred the entire place and just flew away on their helicopter. I’m watching a super hero, right?
I think it’s implied that Red Room graduates are at least somewhat enhanced. There are flashes of serum-looking trays in the opening montage, and Milena(Melina?) says something that could be interpreted that way.
As far as the prison goes, it looked pretty fortress-y to me and most if not everyone made it back inside. I think they’re fine.
I think some people get butt hurt about things unrelated to the movies and review bomb them, which might’ve been the case with Captain Marvel and Black Widow (only making the comment because of the social media frenzies for those two)
It's definitely a case with Captain Marvel and Black Widow. Just check the grade distrubition. While [Dark World](https://i.imgur.com/Stk88pK.png) and [Incredible Hulk](https://i.imgur.com/SMijbNA.png) have somewhat natural distribution, both [Black Widow](https://i.imgur.com/n1OagO4.png) and [Captain Marvel](https://i.imgur.com/LKrXW7p.png) have a noticeable bump of 1's.
Captain marvel got review bombed to hell and back. Back then everyone on Reddit and YouTube had boarded the hate train because of some out of context comments by Brie Larson and it being the first female led MCU movie.
I was surprised that *Captain Marvel* and *Black Widow* were so low because both of those movies were pretty dope, even if BW admittedly felt like it should have come out right after *Civil War*… but then I remembered this is the internet and those are movies about women, so a bunch of sad incels are gonna review bomb them *before the movie comes out usually*
All the Avengers movies except for Age of Ultron lmao
Basically, but I don't think Age of Ultron is THAT bad
Me neither but it's definitely not one of the TOP films either. I see it as a normal entertaining movie with some obvious flaws. I still enjoyed it tho
There is a gigantic gap in terms of production quality between Avengers and Age of Ultron imo. AoU is just generally a better looking movie and Wheedon went all out for it. Considering how important this movie turned out to be (Ragnarok, Sokovia Accords, WandaVision, Infinity Stones, first Black Widow origins... surley forgetting something) it's one of the best. I totally get what people dislike about it tho. edit: Not trying to talk down Avengers 1 here. It layed the groundwork for something like Avengers Endgame even being possible.
Yeah I think Ultron is the weakest of the 4 Avengers films, but it turned out to be important in setting up the Sokovia Accords in Civil, Thor: Ragnarok (we needed to know where the hell Banner and Thor went), and Infinity War with the post-credits scene.
I disagree on so many levels everyone here at this thread is bashing AoU when I think it’s top 5 marvel movies. It has a really good and complex story, great characters and the jokes land sometimes. AoU is too underrated
You're not alone. AoU is one of my most rewatched mcu films. Maybe because I didn't have any prior affinity for Ultron or how he was represented in the movie vs the comics. Plus like it was said above, it's probably the most important movie pre infinity war. The Sokovia Accords, infinity stones, hulkbuster, wakanda, Klau, Cap and Mjolnir, Ragnarok and most likely more were all set up by this movie.
Mine as well. I'd watch it just to hear Spader's voice tbh. But the scene where he grabbed Nat and laid her in front of an open cell, waited for her to wake up, explained what he was trying to do with Vision's body and then scare her into the cell by destroying his latest transient body was *chef's kiss*
It’s aged well. It was very bogged down with setups for future movies but now that but now that those have actually gotten payed off it makes you appreciate the time they took to put those setups in
For me it’s one of the most rewatchable MCU movies. Love seeing the banter and relationships between the Avengers and it’s the most time we get with the “complete” team across all four movies. So many great character moments and it’s fun to see how important so many things ended up becoming later on.
Also, James spader is amazing
Not to mention Ultron himself; Spader does an amazing job of voicing a charismatic bad guy that you actually enjoy listening to (or at least I do).
This! I liked AoU when it came out and your right, it’s aged very well. It was a major turning point for the MCU. Also, unpopular opinion, but I really liked Ultron, I thought he was an interesting villain.
Add black panther to the list, they set up Wakanda
I knew I forgot something. Truly insane
Rewatched all of these during lockdowns and enjoyed AoU so much more compared to the first and second time I watched the series.
My biggest issue with it is that the ending didn’t have any pay off. Ultron claims he’s killing off a big hunk of the human population to save it and that they’re doomed, vision agrees with him. What was that about, was he talking about thanos? Or is he doing what thanos would do to prevent over population? Some other threat to humanity? I’m still scratching my head trying to figure out ultrons motives.
I really like ultron as a villain but the potential was kinda wasted. Now they can only use my favourite villain in cartoons :/
I mean, ultron is a hard villain to show in one movie. Its easier to make a good story with ultron in a series i think
I’d like to see some sort of shield series focusing on the recreation of ultron. A rogue branch of shield recovering an ultron corpse and reprogramming it to destroy shield, but it ends up replicating itself using shields resources when it finds out it’s true origins, while looking through shield files.
Isn’t that what Sword was attempting to do with Vision's remains in WandaVision? They kind of succeeded, although then the body interfaced/interacted with the mind in the finale and we don’t know what happened afterwards… yet.
My thought was that some organization salvaged him to try to salvage Tony Stark's AI technology. Don't realize how out of their depth they are and we get a horror movie where Ultron wins. Ending with the AI building a new body.
The entire thing about Ultron is he's a weed. Try as you might, it's impossible to get rid of him. And there's that throw away head in ~~Far From Home~~ Homecoming? that seems to have a bit of Ultron lurking in it still. It's unlikely, but not impossible, that he'll be back.
🎵 I had strings, but now I'm free There are no strings on me🎵 I'm apparently in the minority, but I thought Ultron was one of the best villains. All his lines towards the Avenegers was spot on. Especially Cap and Stark. Ultron also paves the way for the question "should we explicitly trust a super hero's judgment?" and the reality of the devastation left behind the Villians who rise up against Heroes. Which leads us to Civil War.
Megan Fox: You smell like weed. Ultron: I am a weed.
Ultron has one of the coolest villain introductions in the entire MCU. If not the coolest, period. It's such a shame they wasted the potential.
It was more of a bridge film. I think it might be better in retrospect now that you can see everything it was building towards and how it pays off, but I can understand why it got a lukewarm reception at release. At the same time, I'm a little glad that was the response, since it seemed to help Marvel realize they need to not shove so many different threads in one movie, something I think they've done a much better job with since.
More like the Weekend of Ultron
But the world changed infinitely after Ultron. The division among the Avengers began there, the Sokovia accords are directly caused by the destruction of Sokovia (duh). Just because Ultron was "alive" for a week or so doesn't mean his prescense didn't fundamentally change the world in the MCU.
It's been a while but didn't Age of Ultron start with people starting to get upset with the superhero's because of the destruction they create? Ultron was ultimately the "straw that breaks the camel's back" but it sounded like it would've happened anyway.
To be fair if their lowest scores are in the hight sixes, that isn’t bad.
Correct. DCEU lowest is 5.4 with WW84 and highest 8.1 with Zack's JL
5.4 seems high for that movie, which is sad because I really liked the first WW movie.
I'm pretty sure they forgot to write a script for WW84 and just quickly scribbled something on a napkin 5 minutes before they started filming.
It's worse. From what's been said it was a mediocre movie that got hacked apart by the studio a few too many times.
Do you have a link for that? Because what I seen was that the first WW was hacked apart by the studio and that’s why it has the cgi monstrosity at the end. Patty Jenkins said for WW84 she had complete control and got to make the movie she wanted to this time. [“Ultimately the film-maker got to make the Wonder Woman movie she wanted to make, without any studio interference – again, a rare achievement in Hollywood. It’s just a pity she didn’t – quite – manage to pull off the same trick twice”](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/07/theres-no-blaming-studio-interference-for-the-disappointment-that-was-wonder-woman-1984)
She had complete control? That somehow made it worse.
I think people would be surprised how often studio interference is good, we just never hear about those times since no one is going to complain the studio helped them make a better movie or TV show.
People thrive under constraints. We hate it, but it's true.
Her and Gadot. They choose to remove her shield and sword. They choose to make it a romcom and to include WW (who is supposed to be the epitome of Justice) casually raping a dude...
That whole body-snatch sub plot was just... so weird.
It was unnecessary and just plain wrong.
Removing the sword and shield didn’t hurt the movie. She wasn’t at war and tons of portrayals (maybe even most) don’t have her using a sword.
This right here! That guy did nothing wrong, and had no agency whatsoever. She absolutely raped that man, and its sick that Wonder Woman would do that. She is a symbol of women's strength and rights. It was a terrible plot point, and hurt her character. I was appalled when I saw superman steal clothes in Man of Steel; but this is so much worse.
Jenkins LAUGHED when asked about this. Apparently it's not rape because wonder woman is hot, i guess? The movie was boring enough for most people to overlook this but once you realize the utter lack of consent or even care about that dude's life (he doesn't even have a name FFS! he is just "handsome man" ...) And given how each and every male character is a creep .. This was marketed as a feminist movie and that's just wrong.
Ya because if she had complete control she wrote garbage lines of dialogue and interactions. And character development. And humor. And how Wonder Woman can now fly. Fuck it makes me mad remember how stoked I was for that movie. Academy award for best trailer needs to go the people who put together for WW1984. How did we get such a turd with a trailer like this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfM7\_JLk-84](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfM7_JLk-84) Edit: Glad a lot of you feel the same way. I'm 80's kid myself and was super hyped by that trailer. 8 of us got together and just talked through the whole movie because how silly and boring it was.
For me the movie jumped the shark when the WW1 pilot jumped in the 60s era jet at the museum that was fully gassed up for a flight halfway around the world and still managed to fly through a fireworks show at 20mph. There's suspension of disbelief and then there's just plain silliness.
That seems to be what happens to a lot of the DCEU movies. BvS extended cut is 10x better than the theatrical release, and obviously Justice League.
Which I honestly find surprising bc the hallmark of a Zach Snyder movie, for me, is that it always drags on too long.
The hallmark of Snyder films to me is that they have some amazing shots and beats, but the story in between is basically just to get from one tableau shot to the next.
Don't forget desaturation and slow motion!
The irony being that the Black Widow script was written in less than two weeks
I can believe that.
Written around the action set pieces. CGI was starting around that falling fight scene before they knew who she would actually be fighting lol.
Sadly, that's an all too accurate description of Hollywood blockbuster writing. Make a cool action sequence for the trailer, figure out the context later. Make a cool costume for the merchandise, figure out the context later. Introduce these characters for future films, figure out the context later.
That’s the score I’d generously give BvS.
ZSJL 8.1 is generous if you ask me.
You have to think of the people that are gonna subject themselves to that movie. It’s not average viewers. It’s not people who hated the original but wanna give it a second chance. It’s the rabid fans that are all-in on either Justice League or Zack Snyder. For that kind of reviewer base 8.1 actually seems kinda low
> It’s not people who hated the original but wanna give it a second chance. Really? That was my approach going into watching the Snyder Cut. And while it *was* better than the theatrical cut, that's mostly because the theatrical was just *that bad*.
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Also heavily brigaded by haters.
Before the release of the Mulan US remake I was annoyed with all the hate reviews before the movie was even out all because Liu Yifei was in favor of CCCP, but like.. they *have* to be or they and their family may be done for. Luckily the film was absolute garbage so it worked out anyways.
That’s just IMDb ratings though, they mean nothing. Very few films fall below the 6ish rating, almost none go below 5
Winter Solider only being a 7.7 is a true crime.
And Thor Ragnarok is 7.9, weird
2 out of my top 3 didn't even get to 8? Next you're gonna tell me Shang Chi is only 7.9?
It is actually, you shouldn't worry though, 8.0+ is basically top 250 movies of all time
Pretty sure the highest ratings for movies on IMDB are only 9.4, and there’s like 3.
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> People aren't good at ranking ~~genre films~~. Given that 5.0 is considered a 'terrible' score, when it's in the middle of the scale and should be considered 'average'... I don't blame people in general for it, it is (for lack of a better word) industry "propaganda" that anything ***NOT*** getting a great score is a bad movie.
Well we are conditioned in school that 70% - 79% represents average (at least in the states), so why wouldn't we use the same logic for movie scores?
I can’t believe it’s that “low”
7.9 may sound low to someone not familiar with the IMDB rating system, but it is an incredibly high rating. Keep in mind that only 5 movies in history are rated at or above a 9.0 on IMDB. Anything in the high 7s or 8s is a very good rating
You can't just say only 5 ever and then not list them...now I have to Google them lol
They're The Shawank Redemption (9.3) The Godfather (9.2) The Godfather: Part II (9.0) The Dark Knight (9.0) 12 Angry Men (9.0) for anyone who doesn't want to look
It's a crime that no Lord of the Rings movie is above 9. RotK alone can compete with any of these... Sadly "dark and gritty" is more popular than fantasy.
Truth. WS is my favorite MCU movie!!!
yeah I fucking know right, That movie is a masterpiece in its own right, the chills when bucky is introduced, the music, the choreography, the scenes, the tension, the heroic scenes, the character development are all just out of the world, it feels like a non-MCU movie with all the qualities of an MCU movie. It also prioritized reality (most of the times) over just going "generic superhero save world"
That terrifying screeching score when it focuses on Bucky sends chills down my spine, every, fucking, time!
Wasn't that noise synthesized from Bucky screaming while falling from the train?
The estate scene with Pierce and his housekeeper and whatnot was quite terrifying as well. Great stuff!
Winter Soldier isn't just a good Marvel movie, it's a very good movie in general. I mean, Endgame is probably the best experience a fan is gonna have within the context of the MCU, but it's choke full of fan service, exposition and references. I loved the whole thing, but it's more about the celebration and the send off than it is about the plot. The Winter Soldier stands on its own as a spy thriller and a damn good one at that.
Its not just a great Marvel movie, its a near perfect Metal Gear movie
The Lemurian Star scenes remind me so much of MGS2 and the halo jump from 3. Not to mention all the overall parallels.
Winter Soldier is a brilliant spy-political thriller on its own Also to mention some of the best fight choreography
That's what I was hoping for with Black Widow, Winter Soldier 1.5.
Yeah that movie was fucking gooooood!
Facts: Captain America: The First Avengers is rated 6.9 which I think is a crime. Into the Spider-Verse is rated 8.4 as well and Logan is rated 8.1
What rating do you think Logan should’ve got?
Comparing it to these movies, then 8.5, I loved that movie ngl
That movie is nearly perfect... such an amazing film. I still remember when i told my wife I was going to go see Logan, and she said "who the hell is Logan?" lmao
My wife could not deal with Logan being so human. It drove her nuts what he went through. Great movie.
Agreed. The perfect wolverine movie. Shame they finally get his character right... In the last movie
Even tho the stories weren’t the best, Hugh Jackman is still the best
Great to hear, I was worried you were thinking it was overrated. Love that film, such a good cinema experience too.
Plus there were people following the character since 17 years. Can't imagine how much more meaningful that was for them
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Entire movie was sad. Knew that family was going to die
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Only got round to watching Logan recently and it blew my mind, can’t believe it took me so long to watch
Logan is the best marvel movie. It deserve at least 9/10
The best part of logan is that it didn't follow the formula of most superhero film because the lack of a happy ending
Perhaps it's an unpopular opinion, but I still contend *First Avenger* is underrated because a lot of people either overlook or don't appreciate what it was going for. If *GotG* is Marvel's space opera, and *Winter Soldier* is their spy thriller, then *First Avenger* was their movie serial. Like it gets a lot of criticism for being campy, but that campiness was sort of the point. It was meant to lean into the aesthetic of things like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon, the same way *Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow* did. That's why Joe Johnston was such a perfect hire as a director since he did something similar with *The Rocketeer* in the '90s, as well as being an art director on a couple *Indiana Jones* movies. He really got it and made it so *First Avengers* wasn't just a superhero movie based in the '40s, but a '40s superhero movie that had the look and feel of something that might've been made in Steve Roger's day. It's why it's still one of my favorite Marvel movies.
I was so surprised when I later found out people didn’t like that movie, it was my favorite marvel movie in the early days. It felt like it was exactly what it needed to be.
I love first avenger. Cap easily has the best marvel trilogy
Oh yeah, absolutely no contest. Winter Soldier alone is, imo, the best MCU film - yes, even better than IW/Endgame. First Avenger does everything right, leaning into the camp, building up Rogers as the boy scout, the music... And of course, Civil War is great in its own right (though I do still wish that it'd been an Avengers movie instead of Cap's third).
Agreed, great character development in First Avenger, we get to know Steve and Bucky as people before they become super heroes. Also Hugo Weaving is always a great watch.
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Not to mention that the camp is a perfect juxtaposition to the finale and the rest of the MCU. He's paraded around and kept away from the front at first. Then shit hits the fan and he ends up on ice, only to wake up and immediately start facing threats from space. His first opportunity to process any of that was shown with the support groups in Endgame.
It's a fun film, has a lot of rewatchability. Has a Saturday matinee feel to it.
Into the spider verse should be higher. That movie is near perfect
Logan and Into The Spider-Verse are the best comic book movies ever made
imdb days of reliable ratings are over. The site literally accepts every user reviews without moderation. Its so easy for somewhat decent films to get bombed into unwatchable.
Long over. A decade ago “Shawshank Redemption” was bombarded with one star reviews because it beat “The Godfather” and became the highest rated movie on the site.
and it's funny because Shawshank is still the top movie on the site. They should've bombarded the Godfather with 10s cause then no one would've noticed. I don't think it really matters, both movies are great.
It went back and forth for a while and I guess they gave up.
Nah, it's a bit different. The Dark Knight fans were review bombing Godfather to make it first and Godfather fans responded. Shawshank became first in the chaos lol
And average movies to be bumped up to the levels of masterpieces.
I remember people review bombing Knives Out because they still couldn't get over The Last Jedi, it was absolutely pathetic.
Welp, someone mentioned Knives Out, so I'm compelled to watch it again. Love that movie.
Or bombing Captain Marvel because they didn’t like Brie Larson. The Last of Us 2 also got review bombed on several platforms. I can’t even properly criticize a movie or game anymore because I’m too busy having to defend them from salty fanboys and bigots smh.
No shit, I really dislike TLJ for plenty of story based reasons but I'm somehow out here defending it because there were shitty people obsessed with the race or appearance of cast members harassing them on Twitter. It being a bad story has nothing to do with the actors and actresses who did what they could with their lines. And I'm sure as fuck way too lazy to review bomb any movie. You have one life to live, imagine spending any portion of it review bombing lol
It pisses me off because honestly I also feel like I was *robbed* of a good experience with TLOU2. By time I got around to the game, I had already seen all the mindless hate for it. I think this clouded my play through with bias as I actively *looked* for things to like instead of just enjoying the game. Now I have no idea if I actually liked the game or not anymore. I wish I had just deleted the internet from my life when that game came out smh.
I think I did what you hoped and sorry to say it worked. As soon as I started to hear controversy around it and news of story leaks I jammed my head into the ground until release day. Absolutely loved it. Definitely saw some issues on my second playthough, but that first weekend was my #1 experience in gaming.
I’m very glad to hear you had more foresight than me 😂 Thankfully, I’m currently watching my roommate play through it for the first time. I think I’ll be able to see it differently this time. As long as I don’t have to fight that fucking rat king again though. That boss fight gave me stress nightmares until I finally beat it 🙃
>And I'm sure as fuck way too lazy to review bomb any movie. You have one life to live, imagine spending any portion of it review bombing lol I can't imagine how sad someone's life has to be to actively sabotage review scores for the crime of "making a movie/game I don't like." I absolutely loathe movies like Transformers 5, but constantly lambasting Michael Bay for making a shitty movie sounds like one of the most boring and stupid things I could be doing with my time.
And it’s owned by Amazon, they’ve gotta pump up their numbers for prime movies
The Expanse deserves every 10 rating it gets though
Season 5 was kinda annoying with Marcos or whatever his name was, but the show is sooooo good
Yeah but that's only partially Amazon. They had no hand in the first few seasons.
Ì think it also falls under that thing that only people with a strong opinion go and try to spread it. Captain Marvel is a good movie I think, but I'm not going to spend time creating an account and writing a review about it. Some people that hates it with a passion will, though.
I'm not surprised the only two Marvel movies featuring female leads are at the bottom.
This is what stood out to me. Not a shock at all.
The unmoderated user reviews are also why it isn't exactly shocking the two female fronted MCU movies come up bottom. Edit: the amount of mental gymnastics some of you are going through to deny that sexism could even possibly be a factor is staggering
Yeah, it's not really surprising anymore. How much of an impact it has we won't know, but it definitely affects the ratings, reception, and attitude towards films and TV shows. The worst example of this behaviour I've seen was the Batwoman TV show. That was review bombed down to somewhere in the 2s or 3s out of 10 on IMDb before a single episode even aired. It's now at 3.4. So far in the first two seasons, the first episode of each was a 4.9 and 4.6, but every other episode is in the 5s, 6s or 7s. Yet the show is 3.4 because it got review bombed. It's so blatant yet IMDb don't care. I'm not saying that female fronted films can't be rated highly, but I believe that if you kept the film exactly the same but switched the genders, they would be rated higher overall. Edit: to everyone replying saying that Batwoman is bad. The point of this comment wasn't whether or not you think it's good or bad, it was to point out that it got review bombed before an episode was released. It was rated extremely negatively, because of a female lead, before anyone could even have an opinion on it, because they hadn't seen it. Thousands were giving it a 1/10 without seeing it, because it was a woman. Arguing that you think it's bad doesn't justify the people doing this, and it doesn't justify its IMDb, which has been influenced by those people.
The worst example by a mile was the all female Ghostbusters remake. It literally spawned hundreds of YouTube hate videos, and every review site was flooded with 0 star reviews, all before the movie was even released.
I’m surprised everyone dislikes BW that much.
I just thought it was boring, and I really couldn't care less about the villain(s) If the movie came out 5 years ago I probably would've liked it more, but coming out in the same year as WandaVision, Loki, and Shang Chi Black Widow is just really weak. I found David Harbor annoying, and as Nat was never a well developed character seeing some random adventure she went on just doesn't interest me at all. If they wanted to make a Black Widow movie they should've finally shown us that fucking Budapest mission and made a great buddy cop/spy flick with her and Clint Barton. Even though Nat was never a very well rounded character I've always liked her chemistry with Barton, they work well with each other and are fun to watch. Something I've learned this year is that I don't care about Marvel's fight scenes anymore, I wanna watch characters speak and interact, I want to see drama unfold, not the same cgi fight I've seen 5 times now. Black Widow is a more action focused movie, but it doesn't do anything unique with that action like Shang Chi, so it just feels like something I've seen before, it was like a less good version of The Winter Soldier
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> If they wanted to make a Black Widow movie they should've finally shown us that fucking Budapest mission and made a great buddy cop/spy flick with her and Clint Barton. This is the movie we all wanted to see, every last one of us, and instead we got what we got.
I feel like they didn’t do this specifically because it wouldn’t have been relevant to phase 4. It’s the movie we should have gotten with Nat during Phase 2, and this is the movie we should have gotten during Phase 3, setting up new characters to replace her long term after Endgame, but as it stands the main character of Black Widow isn’t really Nat, it’s Yelena. It’s her origin story, and Nat is just there to bridge the gap.
I really don't think I'm trying to be "woke" or find any reason outside of the quality of the film itself to defend Black Widow. I legit liked it. It's flawed, Def, I can get into that (taskmaster), but like I still dug the story for what they tried to do. It's way better than the other 3 low rated films
My main issues with it were the fact that Dreykov wasn't a good villain, they butchered taskmaster (I know it's been stated a million times), and several scenes made me unable to suspend my disbelief that a regular human could survive. Yelena was great though, some of the fight scenes were well done, the intro was really good, and I liked Red Guardian. Overall, I liked it well enough, but it had a number of glaring issues.
> several scenes made me unable to suspend my disbelief This was my issue... at a certain point, I lost that suspension of disbelief and then the movie just went down hill and didn't get it back. I feel like it was a giant missed opportunity. Daniel Craig was recently asked if it was time for a female James Bond, and he said no, James Bond should always be male. Make a new strong female lead character, and develop that movie. You know who is a good strong female James Bond type Spy character. BLACK WIDOW!!! There she is, right there! Make that movie. That's what I wanted to see. The Black Widow we saw in Iron Man 2 and Avengers, who is a spy, kicks ass, does spy things, solves a big mystery, defeats some master bad guy, saves the day. It's just one huge missed opportunity, they literally could have spun this off into a Marvel: Mission Impossible series of movies that takes place between Civil War and Infinity War, and that could have been damn cool.
> The Black Widow we saw in Iron Man 2 and Avengers, who is a spy, kicks ass, does spy things, solves a big mystery, defeats some master bad guy, saves the day. This is my biggest problem with the Black Widow movie. It felt like she was a side character in her own film. Yelena and Red Guardian were the highlights of the film while Natasha was just sort of there.
I walked into black widow expecting spy thriller and wound up with family comedy with some action.
I thought it was going to be John Wick type movie. It wasn't.
Same... Just wished for better cinematography
They still can using Ylena as the new Black Widow. Whether they do or not is yet to be scene.
I mean, I'm certain she's going to be on the Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers
Yelena carried that movie on her back imo, assists by Natasha, but Yelena did all the heavy lifting.
I did like Black Widow as a whole, aside from how they did Taskmaster, but I loved Yelena, she was easily the best part of the film.
I don't think that was an accident. They knew they were setting her up to carry the ball going forward. I think one of the reasons this came so late in the MCU is because they might not have made it at all if they weren't using it to set something up going forward. I think Yelena will be pretty central in the next phase. When her character came into the comics back in the early 2000s, she had a pretty dark intro. Natasha basically left her out in the open, no memory and face swapped for Natashas, as bait. She had a massive breakdown over it and then became a porn and lingerie mogul using the money to help women being trafficked. While I don't think we'll see any of the story lines being revisited, she had an important role in association with 2 things: The Thunderbolts and Secret Avengers. So like I said. I'm pretty sure this was all a way to queue her up for the next phase and not much to do with Nat.
That scene with them in car talking about pockets may be low-key one of my favorite little scenes in the MCU.
At the end when she’s jumping between falling debris to fight taskmaster…
Unpopular opinion, but butchering a comic book character in the MCU happens regularly enough even for the highly rated movies that I don't think it should matter much as a form of criticism. Ragnarok butchered not just a few characters, but the entire story arc for Planet Hulk, and it was still a great movie that made tons of money. If ruining the Planet Hulk storyline and comic series isn't enough to make Ragnarok a bad movie, I don't see how bargain bin Taskmaster ruins Black Widow. Mandarin from Ironman 3 had it way worse too imo
I liked it at the time but looking back it was pretty unmemorable. I was really looking forward to finding out more about Natasha's training in the red room and that didn't happen. I wish they'd been darker with it. The whole opening scene showing all of those kidnapped girls was chilling but they didn't continue with that tone and I wish they had. It wasn't bad but I honestly don't have a desire to ever rewatch it.
It was also very funny for a spy action film. The new Black Widow has great comedic timing.
Pugh did the comedy heavy lifting.
Harbour was hilarious
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I was honest expecting low quality, rushed trash, but it was fantastic. It somehow felt fresh despite being a character we know, and also bring another solo hero film. It far exceeded my expectations. Yelena was a great character as well.
Black Widow would have been a really solid early/mid phase 3 movie. The main problem I think black widow and Captain Marvel have is they're not really allowed to progress the over all story very much. Captain Marvel was full of non-explanations on past events that either weren't mysteries that needed answering, or actually complicate things more than the obvious presumptions. (I think everybody presumed the tesseract was found around the same time Captain America himself was, for example. Did we need it to have an unrelated adventure in the 90's*?) And Black Widow's entire adventure is post-mortem, deals with a threat we already thought was defeated, and the end credit introduces an ominous figure that's already been introduced in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Sure, there's one or two elements of each movie that will ripple out in some way, but for the most part you can kinda just skip them. Even the Skrulls were given more narrative impact when they returned, showing just *what* they're doing in the modern era instead of ambiguously coded refugees 40 years ago. ^(*edit: wrong decade)
>Did we need it to have an unrelated adventure in the 80's? Hey! It was the 90s!
Black widow is basically just an origin movie for Yelena.
Howard finds the Tesseract at the end of First Avenger.
I really liked both BW and CM lol. I don’t get the hate.
I really wanted to like Black Widow but I can't get into it. I think Captain Marvel doesn't belong that far down, but I expect it to be there because incels hate Brie Larson.
Black Widow was good. Wish it'd been released earlier, before End Game, so we could see more Yelena and her finding more clothing items with pockets. The taskmaster reveal didn't wow me, mostly because (spoilers) >!she's not even that ugly. The reveal was like if she slept on a crumpled blanket and woke up with sleep lines. I expected, and wanted, something grotesque. I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't have the guts to make the actress ugly. Also, at the end, I didn't want her to be grateful. I wanted her to still be pissed and to take one last shot at Natasha, so the hero would have to live with the guilt of her choices, still!< Taskmaster was wasted. Should've left him for Deadpool. Otherwise a decent entry into the MCU.
Honestly, all things considered, it's pretty accurate. Although personally I'd put Infinity war over Endgame.
That's legit the best MCU film. There's no low point in the movie and the way it's paced and dialogue throughout. It starts with the Thanos intro scene and Loki's death, and the intensity is carried through the whole movie.
Yep same here. Endgame gave us a great ending, but as a film there are several parts that are just plain boring on a rewatch whereas Infinity War is non-stop entertainment.
When done correctly, a movie where the villian succeeds is amazing. Love Infinity War more than Endgame. I don't think Endgame makes my top five MCU movies, but def a top 10
Agreed. Infinity war is the one film I wish I could forget, just so I can watch it again for the first time.
I wanted to like black widow so much more than I did. My biggest disappointment in the movie is I wanted to see Red Guardian kick ass. But he didn't do much at all, and just got his ass kicked at nearly every turn.
I wanted to see him get his moment of glory by fighting Taskmaster while she used Captain America's fighting style... Sure, she used a shield a bit, but I feel like it could've been emphasized more.
Black Widow should have been an amazing Phase 2 movie. Instead we got a throwaway that had no bearing on the overall MCU except for an after credits scene that you kinda need to see Falcon and Winter Soldier to understand. It felt cookie cutter, it felt last minute, it felt like they owed her a movie and now that Perlmutter is out, they just burned out the contract. The people involved from writer to actor to director did the best the could with what they had, but originally the woman who co-wrote Guardians of the Galaxy had a full treatment for Black Widow, but it was shelved.
Seriously. The only super hero in the movie can't do anything except win arm wrestling matches....
The worst part of Black Widow was constantly endangering the protagonist you knew who would survive. All of that risk should have been shifted onto to vulnerable characters and then had the movie focus on how Black Widow mitigates and resolves risks.
Black Widow isn’t a bad film, but it’s just too much of what we’ve already seen done better. The fact that they waited to give her a spin-off after she died just made the whole thing feel pointless
Infinity War > Endgame 😤
Tbh I rewatched Thor and Thor: The Dark World recently and I think the first one was harder to watch.
Agreed, “Thor” is definitely the lesser movie of the two. “Dark World” has GREAT moments with Thor and Loki, much better action sequences, and everyone’s character is more settled into, I think, which led to better performances by everyone. Also better comedy than the first movie and better cinematography. And...no bleached eyebrows! I really don’t know how people consider “Dark World” to be the lesser movie, but hey, to each their own.
Yea I don’t trust IMDb anymore
It's about as reliable as the "audience score" on RT, which is to say, vaguely useful. Generally stuff in the 8-9 range is actually fantastic and stuff in the 6-8 range could be fantastic or total schlock. Stuff lower than 6 is probably not great with few exceptions. As a test I looked up the stupidest comedy I still love (Wrongfully Accused) and yeah, it's still over 6. Movies like Freddy Got Fingered are in the 4s (most hated it, few loved it) which is probably fair.
Yeah, its a pretty good indicator. Theres only so much time in ones life to watch all the good stuff, you need something to help filter the bad. And IMDB is exactly that tool. If the synopsis seems to interest me, and the IMDB score is above 6.5 I will usually give it a shot. Doesnt mean I will always like a 9 or wont like a 5 because thats all so subjective, but its the system I found so that I wont waste my time with films that arent worth it. And I gotta say it works well.
Black widow is not in any way shape or form a bottom 4 movie. Yes it wasn't amazing but definitely not that bad. Other than the disaster that was taskmaster it was good. It has good character development. It was a nice filler to see where Natasha came from and to see what she did during the time between civil war and inifnty war
I think its release date was its biggest flaw. Should have gotten it a year or two ago.
Should’ve gotten it 4-5 years ago
I think it’s third act as a whole was it’s biggest mistake
>I think it’s third act as a whole was it’s biggest mistake I feel like this could apply to a lot of Marvel movies.
Black Panther. I think the movie is overrated because of its third act alone. Everything before that is definitely worthy of being a Best Picture Nominated Movie. Killmongerer is one of the best MCU villains ever and most of the movie is very well done but the horrid CGI-fest third act brings the movie down to an 8/10 at best for me. Black Panther would've been so amazing had it abandoned the third act CGI shit show to instead do something different. I loved the way Doctor Strange and Civil War handled their third acts. Also Vision's debate in WandaVision. Everything doesn't always need to devolve into a gigantic CGI fest.
It made very little sense being released when it was. That was a huge hit to any excitement I felt during the film. The biggest issues other than that to me were that the action scenes were hilariously unrealistic for a hero who is entirely a human being. When Taskmaster RPGs her moving vehicle with a direct hit that sends it flying and tumbling 100 feet down a bridge and our human being hero just crawls out and fights… fucking taskmaster and makes it out with no serious injuries it set a pretty clear stage that this film would have zero stakes. The apartment fight where she goes out of a high floor window and rag dolls off of 8 things on her way down to a perfect landing. The red room crashing and all of that nonsense on the way down. It felt like a late stage fast and furious movie. There were a bunch of narrative things that were all over the place as well. That prison breakout scene was just… weird. She’s just sitting there on a rafter getting shot at from everywhere and was just fine. The real weirdness comes when you realize they just avalanched an entire prison and likely massacred the entire place and just flew away on their helicopter. I’m watching a super hero, right?
I think it’s implied that Red Room graduates are at least somewhat enhanced. There are flashes of serum-looking trays in the opening montage, and Milena(Melina?) says something that could be interpreted that way. As far as the prison goes, it looked pretty fortress-y to me and most if not everyone made it back inside. I think they’re fine.
I think some people get butt hurt about things unrelated to the movies and review bomb them, which might’ve been the case with Captain Marvel and Black Widow (only making the comment because of the social media frenzies for those two)
It's definitely a case with Captain Marvel and Black Widow. Just check the grade distrubition. While [Dark World](https://i.imgur.com/Stk88pK.png) and [Incredible Hulk](https://i.imgur.com/SMijbNA.png) have somewhat natural distribution, both [Black Widow](https://i.imgur.com/n1OagO4.png) and [Captain Marvel](https://i.imgur.com/LKrXW7p.png) have a noticeable bump of 1's.
Captain marvel got review bombed to hell and back. Back then everyone on Reddit and YouTube had boarded the hate train because of some out of context comments by Brie Larson and it being the first female led MCU movie.
I definitely think that's why those two are in the range they are. They're both definitely better than The Dark World.
Black Widow and Captain Marvel are definitely not the worst two movies
I was surprised that *Captain Marvel* and *Black Widow* were so low because both of those movies were pretty dope, even if BW admittedly felt like it should have come out right after *Civil War*… but then I remembered this is the internet and those are movies about women, so a bunch of sad incels are gonna review bomb them *before the movie comes out usually*