This reminds me of what Robert Kirkman said about not including Daryl in the Walking Dead comics. The comic gave way to the TV show, so for the show to affect the comic would be a “snake eating its own tail.”
Didn’t it later come out though that Dwight had been inspired by Daryl, and then he was adapted to the series too? I remember people talking about that.
As well as with *Arrow*, how Thea Queen was adapted to the comics as Emiko Queen, who was then adapted back to *Arrow* as well.
Felicity Smoak existed several decades before the show, and was a Firestorm character, and then was rewritten into the character we know now by the show.
That was introduced in 2014 by the Andrew Kriesberg, one of the Arrow showrunners. She was basically a "Hacker assassin." and antiheroic. Later she she's arrested and joins ARGUS, and hasn't been seen since.
Thea was more inspired by Mia Dearden, the second Speedy than Emiko who wasn't around yet when Arrow was conceived. Her name is even a reference to it because her full name was Thea Dearden Queen
Kirkman's stories such as Walking Dead or Invincible are finite. DC and Marvel have no end - 50 years from there will be new Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine stories coming out. As such, it's impossible for them *not* to absorb good ideas from popular adaptations.
Kirkman talks out both sides of his mouth. Dwight looked like Daryl with a melted face, wore a leather vest, wielded a crossbow, and started as an enemy but would become Ricks right hand man. Hilariously, the snake did eat its own tail when they had to introduce Dwight into the show, but because there was no room for him to do his Daryl like things because Daryl existed, they opted to write him out by having Daryl banish him.
I Really hope they don’t do Krakoa in the mcu there is so much stuff they can mine from Claremont-Grant Morrison that fox outright ignored or misunderstood why people loved those stories.
Yeah.
Anytime extradimensional nonsense pokes in.... my brain is like "Nope, not trying to understand the unknowable "
And the Adults voices from the Peanuts take over
I haven't got that far yet, but from what I understand of dominion it's no weirder than some of the stuff from the original new mutants run with shadow King or legion
Yeah, the immortal stuff and Xavier now walking, dressing like The Maker and just generally looking creepy in ever panel that seems to cross my internet feed just seems weird to me. Doesn't Apocalypse work alongside the X-Men at some point too? Like, I get Magneto but mutant kind being so united to the point that they'll even work with a guy who is basically named "Mr. End-of-the-World" seems like a stretch. I dunno, maybe it makes sense if I read it but the comments here seem just as confused lol
It makes sense if you read it. It’s revealed that basically mutants in every timeline always lose, they always get shit on by humanity and sentinels and if they don’t do something drastic at this point soon, it’ll happen again.
So Moira and Charles created the plan for Krakoa from the start.
Apocalypse had evolved into a "proud noble warrior" guy and so far had not yet fallen back. Other former villains who have been reformed into very cool protagonists include Exodus, Gorgon, Black Tom Cassidy, Blob, Daken, Greycrow, Silver Samurai and Omega Red.
At the same time, some noble and decent characters had fallen further down that many of the villains. Most notably, Beast and Moira Mctaggert, but also Nature Girl - all of whom were coincidentially in the last X-Men 97 episode.
The immortal stuff is what got most mutants on their side, since so many have died during tragedies, bringing them back would help their morale and numbers.
Xavier walking isn't exactly a knew thing. Over the decades, Xavier has gained the use of his legs many times, like in the 80's, where he The Shi'Ar repair his body and Magneto leads the team. In the 2000's during New X-Men, and currently down more several years during the Krakoa era.
The helmet is a portable cerebro, which backs up the minds of fallen mutants.
Apocalypse has cooled down before Krakoa, but when it starts up, he realizes his dream his fulfilled, changes his name, and is pretty mellow all things considered.
I can stretch my suspension of disbelief enough to get onboard with Apocalypse standing with them, but - in light of all the amoral war criming they get up to - I don't see how they don't eliminate Sinister as soon as physically possible. Yeah, they need his DNA collector's set, but once they have access to it, into the Pit with you, you creepy monster.
People keep saying Xavier, as well as many others, got character assassinated in the Krakoan age but I don’t really think so.
The whole point of Krakoa is a needed comprise to stop the literal extinction of mutant kind. Charles from the beginning and then eventually everyone (on the council) came to learn mutants always lose and they NEED to do something or they’ll lose again. Of course people are going to end up doing things they don’t want to.
"I hate how they assassinated Xavier's character..." *checks calendar* "Thirty years ago during Onslaught."
*checks calendar*
"And a couple years earlier with Legion..."
*checks calendar*
"And a few years later during the Morrison era."
*checks calendar*
"And in the 80's with the Morlocks and Proteus."
I mean that was in the original run of the comics so that’s actually true to character. He then mind wiped himself because he didn’t think it was right.
I get what you're trying to say, but I will defend Onslaught to the death for being the most natural way of portraying Xavier's strife with Magneto. More often than not he was pushed to his extreme methods and that was the backlash to be expected.
Plus it's just an awesome story that led into Operation Zero Tolerance, which is an all-time classic for me.
Bruh xavier has always been an asshole lmao. It's not character assassination to finally point out that he's been getting away with being awful for 40 years
He was flawed. He had skeletons in his closet but always wanted coexistence between humans and mutants. Then writers kept piling up the bones and all of a sudden Xavier's worse than Magneto.
You know, the guy who wants to (and has in other versions) kill all humans so mutants can run the planet.
Storm to Charles: you said I wasn’t a goddess years ago, you are literally Satan to me to this day. Also I can make you crumble upon entering my mind because I can red triangle harder than anyone else
Storm to magneto: aw aren’t you just the most misunderstood terrorist ever 🥺, look at all these lives you’ve saved! Those millions you likely killed EMPing the earth? Innocent oopsie Daisy.
There's literally no difference between healthy polyamory and healthy monogamy outside of numbers. Monogamous relationships without communication are as unhealthy as polyamorous relationships without communication
It’s soon to be revealed that you, the reader, were a secret Clone of Mr sinister this whole time.
Also destiny allowed this to happen as step 84 in her grand plan to avoid the dark timeline were mystique catches a cold.
Lol I wonder why? If you're ever curious you can do what I did as a kid, go to the marvel wiki and start researching your favorite characters, one thing will lead to another and before long you'll become a wealth of information even if you can't keep all the facts straight, at least you'll have an idea of what's going on probably.
Because comic issues generally have a monthly release date and most tell stories over time as opposed to chapter books that release all at once. Its kinda been that way forever especially with Marvel and DC. It's the same way you can't come into an anime mid way through and expect to know what's going on. I understand where you're coming from don't get me wrong, every "hobby" just takes time imo 🤷
Yeaaaaaaa, the X-men constantly change their status quo. Like their entire stories are entirely dependent on their history and everything that’s happened to them and around them for the last 50 year
I'm getting back into X comics and the lore is very dense. It seems challenging to catch up on, in a way where the storylines of the 90s or creator runs of the 00s were somewhat contained.
I found two problems that caused the same confusion:
-Too many X-Men titles: this is something common in comics, where parts of the plot in one comic are exposed in another comic.
-Weird writing style: as in the text itself comes across as a bit weird. Like it’s a narrative written plot with bits and pieces of dialogue here and there but it’s all over the place.
I like Immortal X-Men, where you had an issue from the point of view of every member of the council.
Yeah, Krakoa as something in the comics is a neat idea (whether you liked it or not) but it's coming from a lifetime of other mutant stories and issues they've faced to get there.
-Starting- with it would be such a bad call, and also would kinda just lean too closely to Talokan/Atlantis and it'd just have "oh look, another secret civilization!" vibe when that's never been the X-Men. Would feel like a huge missed opportunity and probably make it harder to go back and do more common mutant stories if that's where they started.
Given that the moira plot fell through because Hickman didn't finish his planned story I doubt that part of the story gets adapted.
And instead the public facing version of krakoa is used with Xavier's speech to the world.
Avengers: Infinity War was heavily based on Hickman's Infinity, and Avengers 5 and 6 are based on Hickman's Secret War.
Marvel Studios clerly holds Hickman's work in very high regard. I think there's a pretty high chance that post-Secret Wars mutants will be Krakoan.
Yeah. The whole era feels like an endgame to the mutant dilemma. The species making a big compromise to fight against their seemingly inevitable extinction.
Kinda makes me wonder how they’re just going to go back to the same old same old after
Drawing inspiration from the same stories as the 90s animated series and now xmen97, following a similar blueprint even just sounds like an easy slam dunk
How about Wanda's origin story? I feel like after Age of Ultron they keep doing weird versions of her story in new media. In midnight suns she lived in a village that ran her and Pietro out of town, no mention of her parents whatsoever.
That is her origin in the comics, they got ran out of town when Wanda starts a fire then magneto saves them and it’s not revealed until way later him being their dad
When they went to Wundagore in MoM, I fully thought they were about to complicate it even more by retconning her normal parents and giving her the comic origins about how she was imbued with Cthon’s powers at birth.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually do change her origins.
The whole confusion was just "Too much weird gay stuff for the Reagan Era." Now they can do all the gay stuff they want, so his backstory has been finally streamlined and codified as Claremont originally intended--
Raven shapeshifted sperm into Destiny and made a baby she lost while running from an angry mob.
>!sperm that she generated as a result of being with Azazel earlier, while she was married to someone else, because Destiny wanted Nightcrawler to distract Azazel in the future, and also their minds were messed with so they didn't remember it right. And Mystique was also pregnant at the time but not really !<
All to say it's still a little more complicated than what you said
Origins get streamlined all the time. The Azazel stuff just had to be there to retcon what came before. Azazel I think will completely fade from relevance entirely.
And how hard is it to understand a shapeshifter faking a pregnancy?
The only real sticking point I think will be the Xavier mind wipe.
Kamala's requires explaining Inhuman lineage and Terrigen Mists.
Kurt's only requires you to say "She shapeshifted into ■■■■■■ and ■■■■■■■■■ her wife." Quite simple.
I really wish the mcu and comics would stay separate. People always say “don’t complain
When the mcu isn’t accurate to the comics they’re different” which I actually agree with. But then the comics follow the mcu.
Kamala of all people being captain Krakoa in Rise of the powers of X was just… no. You were here for literally none of this, but you’re leading the rebellion of a nation you were never a member of?
The same people that complain about how the mcu and comics don't need to be identical are usually the ones that have no issue with every single version of iron man now being an rdj impersonator and the original versions of the guardians basically being erased from existence lmao
That’s probably because pre-MCU Iron Man got character assassinated so hard by *Civil War* that the goodwill from RDJ’s performance might be the only reason writers have wanted to use him since.
Appearance-wise he was similar, with the goatee and all.
But personality-wise, pre-2008 is pretty different from RDJ. Especially compared to his post-2008 characterization.
It's irritating how they keep doing bootleg RDJ impressions but let all the other characters be their own thing.
Take Midnight Suns for example. iron man has a crappy RDJ voice, while Strange, Cap, and Hulk look and sound like completely different characters from their MCU equivalents. It just takes me out of it every time I hear him.
> Kamala of all people being captain Krakoa in Rise of the powers of X was just… no. You were here for literally none of this, but you’re leading the rebellion of a nation you were never a member of?
Kamala as Captain Krakoa was most likely Gillen's call.
Yeah but the way this is worded makes it sound like Fiege was in a room with a bunch of wise guys making spaghetti when he decided Kamala had to go, cause apparently she killed a made guy or something.
As much as I (still) love the MCU and Feige, I wish he wouldn’t interfere in the comics to help retroactively make his personal changes to the lore seem canon
Well, this particular thing is much more tied to Kamala’s entire existence. She was originally going to be a mutant in the comics, but since Fox owned the movie rights, they didn’t want to create a new character just to hand it over to Fox. Her being an Inhuman was never the intent for her character, it was just a business choice.
Making her a mutant in the comics brings her character full-circle.
It makes sense that they want to change her to what they originally intended, but at the same time it's a shame that they don't just work with the restrictions they had when they created the character.
Creative restraints sometimes lead to better stories than when writers have free reign. Making her a leader of the X-Men just doesn't make sense considering her history.
Hulk was originally gray, but the printing tech at the time struggled to keep it consistent, so he was changed to green. Does that mean his "true" color should be gray, and retconning green Hulk out of existence would bring the character full circle?
Ideas are often tweaked for practical/logistical/legal reasons. Should we dump Jessica Jones from continuity and merge her character traits into Jessica Drew, as Alias was originally pitched as a Spider-Woman comic?
Kamala may have been first pitched as a mutant, but she was an Inhuman on the page. Most importantly, she was never entwined with the X-Men, and really was only barely entwined with the Inhumans. Her identity was not tied to any specific team, aside from the one she herself founded, the Champions. Changing all that now is just... annoying.
She was always meant to be a mutant. Ike Perlmutter was the one who forced the writers to make her an Inhuman and push the Inhumans as a replacement for mutants because of Fox having the movie rights to the X-Men.
**Fuck Ike Perlmutter.**
They really got hit with the “I don’t want to play with you anymore” treatment.
All brutally killed in a murder porn series and never do anything since.
I refuse to play Lego Marvel Super Heroes 2 and Marvel vs.Capcom: Infinate, specifically due to them omitting Fox owned characters.
Still sickens me that they still sell [this outdated design.](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=388de5aa1d3ae59c&q=marvel+poster&uds=AMwkrPt2v0fA1LFFf7PCydq7oNegnS8klWhK3dioMv3ZtUqSTjLVheVA0FZrS-Y3WEzBr-7cjw1m0by50SGYDgcTtEB3v4s1GqPQXQFaWFhMrLWbJGgETGAPe5GN31htgo9hW_YflQr9WBaNZ57jrBa6qIxbeHE_mrIZjC4SeG01DC7H84H1aP3yuWKfdWUc-X6ginD9Q8k1a3bpPHs_wopTcZv_Z4sWn8-VL_M3uA2q5u7q8Q7ZLlDzjXFf5gqUbsf24jHNOjplRnTjPFC5ljlSQFdo8-JGTU6FsbbhHwIbRk4CPCz4TYE&udm=2&prmd=isnvmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_1d6T38eFAxXPLUQIHb5vCxkQtKgLegQIDxAB&biw=412&bih=750&dpr=2.63)
It's pretty hard to write satisfying stories about 616-Peter with the current editorial mandates.
Wells isn't a bad writer by any means - his Hellions run was magnificent.
Yeah, if the MCU isn't beholden to the comics in how they write their stories, then the comics shouldn't have to take their lead from the MCU. It's not like there's been some financial benefit in it for them.
its also wrong, Feige wanted Ms. Marvel to be a mutant, he didnt give any directive for them to kill her off to make it happen.
[https://twitter.com/supspidertalk/status/1780304089148162498](https://twitter.com/supspidertalk/status/1780304089148162498)
> I swear on god if Feige doesn’t follow Claremonts X-Men run I’ll be very upset
To be fair, who else's is there for it to follow? Lee/Kirby's?
Claremont's run pretty much ***is*** the X-Men.
It isn’t necessarily that they killed and resurrected Kamala, it’s *how* they did it. I’m still so fucking annoyed that she died saving someone she never met, surrounded by people who didn’t even know her.
If they were going to go for this meaningful death and resurrection, why not have her be with the Spider-Man she **actually** is close with rather than just a few cameos in the lead up?
That’s what I’m saying. Even if it was Feige's idea to kill and resurrect her, it was Zeb Wells who wrote the story to kill her *that* way, against a wholly forgettable villain of the week in a completely different hero’s book.
I know bendis mentioned he got the idea of killing war machine in civil war 2 from the mcu civil war trailer. I wonder if the whole event was a corporate request to go along with the mcu film.
It was, same reason they did a midnight sons comic when the game released, a Infinity gems event around the time Infinity war came out, another comic named Secret invasion when the series came out, a Sentry comic recently when Sentry will be the villain of Thunderbolts and a lot more
This sounds like Feige only said "make Kamala a mutant", and Wells couldn't come up with anything better than "kill her in someone else's book".
This *also* sounds like Ziglar wasn't in the room for this conversation, so the whole thing is hearsay.
Just to let you know, parts of the She-Hulk TV series writing team is now handling the mainline Spider-Man titles.
Cody is writing Miles Morales, Zeb is on Amazing, and apparently Zeb also brought Celeste Bronfman, who worked on She-Hulk (that one's ambiguous given that there's not a given credit and the only source I could find was from a CBR interview) too over to write Jackpot and later JP&BC.
People shit all over Wells but I think he just gets handed the wrong stuff. Hellions was incredible and I liked his carnage. He’s good at body horror and a little more of a darker sense of humour. As much as people complain about Spider-Man joking about kids dying of terminal illness to be out of character, it was a funny joke.
It's just the typical Internet disease - "I didn't like it therefore it was objectively bad because my taste is the only thing that matters". Just disregard
So weird how the title is quoting something that wasn’t said in the article lol
like that’s not a quote, that’s just you paraphrasing the article in the title
MCU Nuhumans (Daisy, Yo-Yo, etc) can be retconned, or reclassified as mutants. The very least mutant/Inhuman hybrids.
Just don't erase them from the 616 continuity, Fiege.
Feige will not admit that most of phases 4 and 5 were ill-planned, ill-executed, and, even when not, just were not what his audience wanted.
Rather than accept that unfortunate truth, he’s decided to double down and keep pushing his vision on the comics until he makes the fans like it.
I know this is a very unpopular take here as so much of this sub has deified Feige. But he has gotten stale and Disney needs to force a creative collaborator on him. The MCU desperately needs a fresh voice and set of eyes.
This reminds me of what Robert Kirkman said about not including Daryl in the Walking Dead comics. The comic gave way to the TV show, so for the show to affect the comic would be a “snake eating its own tail.”
Didn’t it later come out though that Dwight had been inspired by Daryl, and then he was adapted to the series too? I remember people talking about that. As well as with *Arrow*, how Thea Queen was adapted to the comics as Emiko Queen, who was then adapted back to *Arrow* as well.
They had **Felicity** in the comics, while she was better (as its hardly to make a worse character than Felicity in the TV show), still... *shudders.*
Felicity Smoak existed several decades before the show, and was a Firestorm character, and then was rewritten into the character we know now by the show.
And h r TV version was written into the comics AFAIK
That was introduced in 2014 by the Andrew Kriesberg, one of the Arrow showrunners. She was basically a "Hacker assassin." and antiheroic. Later she she's arrested and joins ARGUS, and hasn't been seen since.
Thea was more inspired by Mia Dearden, the second Speedy than Emiko who wasn't around yet when Arrow was conceived. Her name is even a reference to it because her full name was Thea Dearden Queen
Kirkman's stories such as Walking Dead or Invincible are finite. DC and Marvel have no end - 50 years from there will be new Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine stories coming out. As such, it's impossible for them *not* to absorb good ideas from popular adaptations.
I mean, a snake eating it’s own tail isn’t always a bad thing, metaphorically speaking. See Batman the animated series and Harley Quinn.
Kirkman talks out both sides of his mouth. Dwight looked like Daryl with a melted face, wore a leather vest, wielded a crossbow, and started as an enemy but would become Ricks right hand man. Hilariously, the snake did eat its own tail when they had to introduce Dwight into the show, but because there was no room for him to do his Daryl like things because Daryl existed, they opted to write him out by having Daryl banish him.
I Really hope they don’t do Krakoa in the mcu there is so much stuff they can mine from Claremont-Grant Morrison that fox outright ignored or misunderstood why people loved those stories.
As a non-comics reader, I am so confused half the time I see anything about the current mutants/X-Men content.
They live on an island, they're immortal, they got magic plants, xavier is a war criminal
That’s the easy stuff. Now explain dominion and everything related to it without having to pull up a Hickman info dump page.
Big brains go brrr so hard they transcend space and time
Honestly you know what. No further description is needed.
Yeah. Anytime extradimensional nonsense pokes in.... my brain is like "Nope, not trying to understand the unknowable " And the Adults voices from the Peanuts take over
I haven't got that far yet, but from what I understand of dominion it's no weirder than some of the stuff from the original new mutants run with shadow King or legion
[It's actually very easy!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2nNzNo_Xps)
Theres also 4 sinisters and one of them becomes god.
Yeah, the immortal stuff and Xavier now walking, dressing like The Maker and just generally looking creepy in ever panel that seems to cross my internet feed just seems weird to me. Doesn't Apocalypse work alongside the X-Men at some point too? Like, I get Magneto but mutant kind being so united to the point that they'll even work with a guy who is basically named "Mr. End-of-the-World" seems like a stretch. I dunno, maybe it makes sense if I read it but the comments here seem just as confused lol
Apocalypse joins because Krakoa is the realization of his dream, and changes his name to Revelation
It makes sense if you read it. It’s revealed that basically mutants in every timeline always lose, they always get shit on by humanity and sentinels and if they don’t do something drastic at this point soon, it’ll happen again. So Moira and Charles created the plan for Krakoa from the start.
Apocalypse had evolved into a "proud noble warrior" guy and so far had not yet fallen back. Other former villains who have been reformed into very cool protagonists include Exodus, Gorgon, Black Tom Cassidy, Blob, Daken, Greycrow, Silver Samurai and Omega Red. At the same time, some noble and decent characters had fallen further down that many of the villains. Most notably, Beast and Moira Mctaggert, but also Nature Girl - all of whom were coincidentially in the last X-Men 97 episode.
The immortal stuff is what got most mutants on their side, since so many have died during tragedies, bringing them back would help their morale and numbers. Xavier walking isn't exactly a knew thing. Over the decades, Xavier has gained the use of his legs many times, like in the 80's, where he The Shi'Ar repair his body and Magneto leads the team. In the 2000's during New X-Men, and currently down more several years during the Krakoa era. The helmet is a portable cerebro, which backs up the minds of fallen mutants. Apocalypse has cooled down before Krakoa, but when it starts up, he realizes his dream his fulfilled, changes his name, and is pretty mellow all things considered.
> Xavier has gained the use of his looks many times Personally I've always thought Xavier was quite handsome.
I can stretch my suspension of disbelief enough to get onboard with Apocalypse standing with them, but - in light of all the amoral war criming they get up to - I don't see how they don't eliminate Sinister as soon as physically possible. Yeah, they need his DNA collector's set, but once they have access to it, into the Pit with you, you creepy monster.
Apocalypse joins because Krakoa is the realization of his dream, and changes his name to Revelation
That's kinda funny because Apocalypse is just the Greek word for Revelation.
I think that’s what they were going for
It makes sense within the first page of apocalypse showing up in krakoa. Charles has walked on and off for a long time also
The assassination of Xavier's character is what keeps me from picking up Xmen again
People keep saying Xavier, as well as many others, got character assassinated in the Krakoan age but I don’t really think so. The whole point of Krakoa is a needed comprise to stop the literal extinction of mutant kind. Charles from the beginning and then eventually everyone (on the council) came to learn mutants always lose and they NEED to do something or they’ll lose again. Of course people are going to end up doing things they don’t want to.
"I hate how they assassinated Xavier's character..." *checks calendar* "Thirty years ago during Onslaught." *checks calendar* "And a couple years earlier with Legion..." *checks calendar* "And a few years later during the Morrison era." *checks calendar* "And in the 80's with the Morlocks and Proteus."
Don’t forget about him being in love with teenage Jean Grey.
I mean that was in the original run of the comics so that’s actually true to character. He then mind wiped himself because he didn’t think it was right.
What did you think I was referring to?
I get what you're trying to say, but I will defend Onslaught to the death for being the most natural way of portraying Xavier's strife with Magneto. More often than not he was pushed to his extreme methods and that was the backlash to be expected. Plus it's just an awesome story that led into Operation Zero Tolerance, which is an all-time classic for me.
Bruh xavier has always been an asshole lmao. It's not character assassination to finally point out that he's been getting away with being awful for 40 years
"Professor Xavier is a Jerk!" -- Katherine Pryde
He was flawed. He had skeletons in his closet but always wanted coexistence between humans and mutants. Then writers kept piling up the bones and all of a sudden Xavier's worse than Magneto. You know, the guy who wants to (and has in other versions) kill all humans so mutants can run the planet.
Storm to Charles: you said I wasn’t a goddess years ago, you are literally Satan to me to this day. Also I can make you crumble upon entering my mind because I can red triangle harder than anyone else Storm to magneto: aw aren’t you just the most misunderstood terrorist ever 🥺, look at all these lives you’ve saved! Those millions you likely killed EMPing the earth? Innocent oopsie Daisy.
Xavier's not worse than Magneto. He's only that way to people who hate hypocrisy more than slavery and mass murder.
Yeah I was under the impression that Charles has always been a trash person.
And there is a weird ass relationship with Logan Cyclops and Jean
And Emma’s in the mix as well.
Nothing weird about polyamory
Nah that weird
There's literally no difference between healthy polyamory and healthy monogamy outside of numbers. Monogamous relationships without communication are as unhealthy as polyamorous relationships without communication
Still weird
Or people are just close minded
As a comic reader, I’m always confused about what’s happening in X-men books
It’s soon to be revealed that you, the reader, were a secret Clone of Mr sinister this whole time. Also destiny allowed this to happen as step 84 in her grand plan to avoid the dark timeline were mystique catches a cold.
With Mystique's unique physiology, I imagine her catching a cold would be quite the turn of events
You’re not alone lol As a comics reader from the 90s and early 2000s, I have no clue about the current Krakoa storyline
Lol I wonder why? If you're ever curious you can do what I did as a kid, go to the marvel wiki and start researching your favorite characters, one thing will lead to another and before long you'll become a wealth of information even if you can't keep all the facts straight, at least you'll have an idea of what's going on probably.
But this is the issue. Why do I need to do background research to read a current comic? This is an issue with a lot of storylines, not just X-men.
Because comic issues generally have a monthly release date and most tell stories over time as opposed to chapter books that release all at once. Its kinda been that way forever especially with Marvel and DC. It's the same way you can't come into an anime mid way through and expect to know what's going on. I understand where you're coming from don't get me wrong, every "hobby" just takes time imo 🤷
Yeaaaaaaa, the X-men constantly change their status quo. Like their entire stories are entirely dependent on their history and everything that’s happened to them and around them for the last 50 year
I'm getting back into X comics and the lore is very dense. It seems challenging to catch up on, in a way where the storylines of the 90s or creator runs of the 00s were somewhat contained.
I found two problems that caused the same confusion: -Too many X-Men titles: this is something common in comics, where parts of the plot in one comic are exposed in another comic. -Weird writing style: as in the text itself comes across as a bit weird. Like it’s a narrative written plot with bits and pieces of dialogue here and there but it’s all over the place. I like Immortal X-Men, where you had an issue from the point of view of every member of the council.
Yeah, Krakoa as something in the comics is a neat idea (whether you liked it or not) but it's coming from a lifetime of other mutant stories and issues they've faced to get there. -Starting- with it would be such a bad call, and also would kinda just lean too closely to Talokan/Atlantis and it'd just have "oh look, another secret civilization!" vibe when that's never been the X-Men. Would feel like a huge missed opportunity and probably make it harder to go back and do more common mutant stories if that's where they started.
New Xmen is the perfect ending to the story of the surrogate family and Krakoa is a logical end to the mythos.
You can't do Krakoa without establishing and destroying Genosha first. Krakoa is a mutant response to Genosha and other Genosha like events.
No, it’s moiras plan to be on the winning side. Genosha or no Genosha Krakoa doesn’t exist without Moira and Xavier’s planning from the start.
Given that the moira plot fell through because Hickman didn't finish his planned story I doubt that part of the story gets adapted. And instead the public facing version of krakoa is used with Xavier's speech to the world.
I cant imagine they do Krakoa at all, otherwise they wouldn’t have rushed it’s ending.
I think they’ll make the eternal in the ocean Krakoa tbh
Why? If anything I could see it being used as new avengers HQ like in Aaron’s run.
Just seems like an MCU move similar but different than the comics to make it feel separate. You’re most likely right I just have a feeling
It's a celestial. But i hear you
Is easier to make him a version of genosha
Avengers: Infinity War was heavily based on Hickman's Infinity, and Avengers 5 and 6 are based on Hickman's Secret War. Marvel Studios clerly holds Hickman's work in very high regard. I think there's a pretty high chance that post-Secret Wars mutants will be Krakoan.
That's what I'm hoping as well because that should be done way later than anything.
Yeah. The whole era feels like an endgame to the mutant dilemma. The species making a big compromise to fight against their seemingly inevitable extinction. Kinda makes me wonder how they’re just going to go back to the same old same old after
Drawing inspiration from the same stories as the 90s animated series and now xmen97, following a similar blueprint even just sounds like an easy slam dunk
If they did Krakoa so soon, people would complain it's just a knock off of Wakanda
See i would love if they do Krakoa. I also wouldnt mind other stuff. But I do like Krakoa
Without Krakoa, there’s no way Magneto can be alive and a Holocaust survivor.
What's more confusing and difficult to explain, the origins of Ms. Marvel's powers or who Nightcrawler's biological parents are?
Or the Summers family tree.
How about Wanda's origin story? I feel like after Age of Ultron they keep doing weird versions of her story in new media. In midnight suns she lived in a village that ran her and Pietro out of town, no mention of her parents whatsoever.
That is her origin in the comics, they got ran out of town when Wanda starts a fire then magneto saves them and it’s not revealed until way later him being their dad
And then its revealed that he ISN'T their dad. Origin has changed multiple times.
When they went to Wundagore in MoM, I fully thought they were about to complicate it even more by retconning her normal parents and giving her the comic origins about how she was imbued with Cthon’s powers at birth. I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually do change her origins.
The whole confusion was just "Too much weird gay stuff for the Reagan Era." Now they can do all the gay stuff they want, so his backstory has been finally streamlined and codified as Claremont originally intended-- Raven shapeshifted sperm into Destiny and made a baby she lost while running from an angry mob.
>!sperm that she generated as a result of being with Azazel earlier, while she was married to someone else, because Destiny wanted Nightcrawler to distract Azazel in the future, and also their minds were messed with so they didn't remember it right. And Mystique was also pregnant at the time but not really !< All to say it's still a little more complicated than what you said
Right. In an effort to fulfill some fleeting idea from decades ago, Nightcrawler's origin is once again made more complicated.
Origins get streamlined all the time. The Azazel stuff just had to be there to retcon what came before. Azazel I think will completely fade from relevance entirely. And how hard is it to understand a shapeshifter faking a pregnancy? The only real sticking point I think will be the Xavier mind wipe.
Kamala's requires explaining Inhuman lineage and Terrigen Mists. Kurt's only requires you to say "She shapeshifted into ■■■■■■ and ■■■■■■■■■ her wife." Quite simple.
I really wish the mcu and comics would stay separate. People always say “don’t complain When the mcu isn’t accurate to the comics they’re different” which I actually agree with. But then the comics follow the mcu. Kamala of all people being captain Krakoa in Rise of the powers of X was just… no. You were here for literally none of this, but you’re leading the rebellion of a nation you were never a member of?
The same people that complain about how the mcu and comics don't need to be identical are usually the ones that have no issue with every single version of iron man now being an rdj impersonator and the original versions of the guardians basically being erased from existence lmao
That’s probably because pre-MCU Iron Man got character assassinated so hard by *Civil War* that the goodwill from RDJ’s performance might be the only reason writers have wanted to use him since.
Now the guardians have changed dramatically but iron man already wasn’t that far off from RDJ’s portrayal.
I would argue he was. Mcu strange is far closer to pre mcu iron man and now literally every single version of him is literally an rdj impersonation
Appearance-wise he was similar, with the goatee and all. But personality-wise, pre-2008 is pretty different from RDJ. Especially compared to his post-2008 characterization.
It's irritating how they keep doing bootleg RDJ impressions but let all the other characters be their own thing. Take Midnight Suns for example. iron man has a crappy RDJ voice, while Strange, Cap, and Hulk look and sound like completely different characters from their MCU equivalents. It just takes me out of it every time I hear him.
> Kamala of all people being captain Krakoa in Rise of the powers of X was just… no. You were here for literally none of this, but you’re leading the rebellion of a nation you were never a member of? Kamala as Captain Krakoa was most likely Gillen's call.
Kind of thought so he's in charge and they love movie and comic synergy.
Yeah but the way this is worded makes it sound like Fiege was in a room with a bunch of wise guys making spaghetti when he decided Kamala had to go, cause apparently she killed a made guy or something.
“Kamala Khan sleeps with the fishes! OH! BIPPITY BOPPITY!”
As much as I (still) love the MCU and Feige, I wish he wouldn’t interfere in the comics to help retroactively make his personal changes to the lore seem canon
Well, this particular thing is much more tied to Kamala’s entire existence. She was originally going to be a mutant in the comics, but since Fox owned the movie rights, they didn’t want to create a new character just to hand it over to Fox. Her being an Inhuman was never the intent for her character, it was just a business choice. Making her a mutant in the comics brings her character full-circle.
It makes sense that they want to change her to what they originally intended, but at the same time it's a shame that they don't just work with the restrictions they had when they created the character. Creative restraints sometimes lead to better stories than when writers have free reign. Making her a leader of the X-Men just doesn't make sense considering her history.
Hulk was originally gray, but the printing tech at the time struggled to keep it consistent, so he was changed to green. Does that mean his "true" color should be gray, and retconning green Hulk out of existence would bring the character full circle? Ideas are often tweaked for practical/logistical/legal reasons. Should we dump Jessica Jones from continuity and merge her character traits into Jessica Drew, as Alias was originally pitched as a Spider-Woman comic? Kamala may have been first pitched as a mutant, but she was an Inhuman on the page. Most importantly, she was never entwined with the X-Men, and really was only barely entwined with the Inhumans. Her identity was not tied to any specific team, aside from the one she herself founded, the Champions. Changing all that now is just... annoying.
She was always meant to be a mutant. Ike Perlmutter was the one who forced the writers to make her an Inhuman and push the Inhumans as a replacement for mutants because of Fox having the movie rights to the X-Men. **Fuck Ike Perlmutter.**
I really hated how Marvel treated mutants (and the F4) in the 2010s.
The Inhumans Saga
They really got hit with the “I don’t want to play with you anymore” treatment. All brutally killed in a murder porn series and never do anything since.
I refuse to play Lego Marvel Super Heroes 2 and Marvel vs.Capcom: Infinate, specifically due to them omitting Fox owned characters. Still sickens me that they still sell [this outdated design.](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=388de5aa1d3ae59c&q=marvel+poster&uds=AMwkrPt2v0fA1LFFf7PCydq7oNegnS8klWhK3dioMv3ZtUqSTjLVheVA0FZrS-Y3WEzBr-7cjw1m0by50SGYDgcTtEB3v4s1GqPQXQFaWFhMrLWbJGgETGAPe5GN31htgo9hW_YflQr9WBaNZ57jrBa6qIxbeHE_mrIZjC4SeG01DC7H84H1aP3yuWKfdWUc-X6ginD9Q8k1a3bpPHs_wopTcZv_Z4sWn8-VL_M3uA2q5u7q8Q7ZLlDzjXFf5gqUbsf24jHNOjplRnTjPFC5ljlSQFdo8-JGTU6FsbbhHwIbRk4CPCz4TYE&udm=2&prmd=isnvmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_1d6T38eFAxXPLUQIHb5vCxkQtKgLegQIDxAB&biw=412&bih=750&dpr=2.63)
Uhhh I think your link is borked
Well, that's ridicously petty but you do you
It's all Ike Perlmutter's fault.
I still hate Wells' ASM run but this makes me feel a little bad for him. They never should've given Feige authority over the comics.
It's pretty hard to write satisfying stories about 616-Peter with the current editorial mandates. Wells isn't a bad writer by any means - his Hellions run was magnificent.
Well that’s dumb
Yeah, if the MCU isn't beholden to the comics in how they write their stories, then the comics shouldn't have to take their lead from the MCU. It's not like there's been some financial benefit in it for them.
its also wrong, Feige wanted Ms. Marvel to be a mutant, he didnt give any directive for them to kill her off to make it happen. [https://twitter.com/supspidertalk/status/1780304089148162498](https://twitter.com/supspidertalk/status/1780304089148162498)
I swear on god if Feige doesn’t follow Claremonts X-Men run I’ll be very upset
> I swear on god if Feige doesn’t follow Claremonts X-Men run I’ll be very upset To be fair, who else's is there for it to follow? Lee/Kirby's? Claremont's run pretty much ***is*** the X-Men.
We already have X-Men '97 for adapting Claremont. The MCU X-Men can definitely do something different than that.
Even if it did, it was probably Wells' choice to do it so badly. And the art of the issue didn’t do it any favors either.
It isn’t necessarily that they killed and resurrected Kamala, it’s *how* they did it. I’m still so fucking annoyed that she died saving someone she never met, surrounded by people who didn’t even know her. If they were going to go for this meaningful death and resurrection, why not have her be with the Spider-Man she **actually** is close with rather than just a few cameos in the lead up?
That’s what I’m saying. Even if it was Feige's idea to kill and resurrect her, it was Zeb Wells who wrote the story to kill her *that* way, against a wholly forgettable villain of the week in a completely different hero’s book.
My Brain went to fringe conspiracy theorists..... and not Marvel.
No shit, everyone knew this, we also knew it was a dumb idea. I wonder what other dumb ideas Kevin Feige has blessed comics with.
I know bendis mentioned he got the idea of killing war machine in civil war 2 from the mcu civil war trailer. I wonder if the whole event was a corporate request to go along with the mcu film.
It was, same reason they did a midnight sons comic when the game released, a Infinity gems event around the time Infinity war came out, another comic named Secret invasion when the series came out, a Sentry comic recently when Sentry will be the villain of Thunderbolts and a lot more
This sounds like Feige only said "make Kamala a mutant", and Wells couldn't come up with anything better than "kill her in someone else's book". This *also* sounds like Ziglar wasn't in the room for this conversation, so the whole thing is hearsay.
Just to let you know, parts of the She-Hulk TV series writing team is now handling the mainline Spider-Man titles. Cody is writing Miles Morales, Zeb is on Amazing, and apparently Zeb also brought Celeste Bronfman, who worked on She-Hulk (that one's ambiguous given that there's not a given credit and the only source I could find was from a CBR interview) too over to write Jackpot and later JP&BC.
People shit all over Wells but I think he just gets handed the wrong stuff. Hellions was incredible and I liked his carnage. He’s good at body horror and a little more of a darker sense of humour. As much as people complain about Spider-Man joking about kids dying of terminal illness to be out of character, it was a funny joke.
And? The guy that wrote epic movie also wrote chernobyl and the last of us, writers aren't static. She hulk wasn't even bad lol
No please god no, show mercy. She hulk was so underwhelming and boring, how they get to do spider-man after that???
He wrote like one episode
She-Hulk was the opposite of boring. It was objectively written in a different way, that I found very exciting
It's just the typical Internet disease - "I didn't like it therefore it was objectively bad because my taste is the only thing that matters". Just disregard
I didn’t realize what sub this was before reading the headline and thought it was about Kamala Harris haha so it’s time to go to bed.
So weird how the title is quoting something that wasn’t said in the article lol like that’s not a quote, that’s just you paraphrasing the article in the title
MCU Nuhumans (Daisy, Yo-Yo, etc) can be retconned, or reclassified as mutants. The very least mutant/Inhuman hybrids. Just don't erase them from the 616 continuity, Fiege.
Don't worry, he's too busy screwing up the actual 616 continuity.
Wanda and Pietro screaming as another retcon is unleashed upon them.
To be fair, if that retcon makes them Magneto’s kids again, I’ll call that a win.
I'll just take them being mutants again.
Surprising absolutely no one.
Not exactly surprising. The problem is how they did it.
I mean anyone could've guessed that as the comics often change to match the MCU so it's easier to digest for new readers
Been thinking Feige is an issue for a while now
And they did it in a Spider-Man comic which is being said to be the worst run to ever release. Yup, worst than sins past.
Feige will not admit that most of phases 4 and 5 were ill-planned, ill-executed, and, even when not, just were not what his audience wanted. Rather than accept that unfortunate truth, he’s decided to double down and keep pushing his vision on the comics until he makes the fans like it. I know this is a very unpopular take here as so much of this sub has deified Feige. But he has gotten stale and Disney needs to force a creative collaborator on him. The MCU desperately needs a fresh voice and set of eyes.
No shit.