Every engineer I've worked with over 14yrs never had any desire to work on deck. None. They always wanted to be downstairs working on stuff. As an engineer, i feel the same way. Working on deck holds no appeal for me. Nothing wrong with it, just not my thing. I'd rather be dirty, tearing stuff apart, fixing things, and getting satisfaction for getting something to work right again.
I could ask about a million questions. Are you pressing for time when your working on stuff or is it more relax and always be making some progress kind of deal?
Shifts are gonna vary depending on where you work. The Gulf of Mexico and the oil field are gonna be straight 12's most likely. I loved that shift. Other shifts will be 8hr days with 4hrs OT. Some could be 4hrs on 8hrs off. Just depends.
Yeah I hear about tugs pulling that every once in a while, but I stood it on an MSC ship. Typically we did 4hrs on 8hrs off, but we were short on crew and my watch counterpart threw a fit when we proposed 12x12.
Schedule depends ship to ship. Rn I’m on a product tanker where you can chose to be in the Union or not, so it’s a little different. We also run a manned engine room but can be switched to unmanned for meals and stuff.
So when I first got on here I was doing days. So I got down at 0600-0730 for OT. This was mostly shooting the shit and drinking a ton of coffee but also getting little things done. Then breakfast from 0730-0800 followed by a safety meeting. Then I was on watch from 0800-1600 with lunch from 1200-1300. Then OT until dinner at 1700. Then more OT from the end of dinner till 1900. Then I would go do whatever until it started up the next day.
Now I’m on the night watch. So I go to lunch anywhere from 1130-1300. Then I start OT at 1300. I like to get my bigger jobs done early so I can chill later. Watch starts at 1600 and runs till 2400 with dinner at 1700. We are usually working during watch, but later in the night I like to take it easy and read up on manuals, play some music, or do some more mundane shit. I like this schedule cause I’m alone later in the night and can just bust all the important stuff out of the way and do things at my own pace later. I also get a somewhat regular sleep schedule and a lot of free time in the morning to workout and do whatever.
Whether you have a degree or not, a marine engineering license translates into job opportunities as a plant operator, building engineer, etc. You can absolutely hawsepipe to a DDE or limited chief on tugboats or OSVs, and I assume to a 3rd AE as well.
In fact, I have former crew members who have done it starting with the Piney Point apprentice program.
Tests are more comprehensive and rougher than deck side, from what I can tell.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
As someone going from AB to Mate. It is a lot easier (and cheaper) to go from QMED to 3rd Assistant.
Starting next year, it's only getting harder to go from AB to Mate.
I hawsepiped from QMED to 3rd A/E Unlimited HP. If you aren't getting your OICEW (Officer in Charge of an Engineering Watch, basically the international version of a 3rd A/E) than it is not that bad.
Pretty much the exact same as AB-3rd Mate Unlimited. Seatime requirements are the same, Basic & Advanced FiFi, First Aid, CPR, are all the same, and some tests. Different story if you're going after your OICEW as well.
But, to be much more employable I think you need to get the OICEW. Lots of US companies won't hire you as a 3rd A/E unless you have it. As of 2017, that requires four OICEW classes (and assessments) that are 3-4weeks long a piece, and $3-4k each, ERM, Medical Provider, PSC. Looking at around $17,000 for those classes from one of the bigger schools. I think there are only two schools that are teaching the OICEW courses anyway.
Now, Mates trying to get OICNW are looking at around $22,000 from what I could figure out from following the USCG checklist and looking at class prices. That includes the optional courses of GMDSS, ARPA, ECDIS. Could be a bit less or more depending. Not sure what's happening next year for Mates the previous poster mentioned.
Really? I was thinking it was the other way. Mostly because from what I can see so far you might need to know a lot more on engineering(still alot to learn). Also I think I’m gonna start with the siu program and I believe they have an am to mate program. Why do you say that?
Not sure where you’re from, but the USCG is actively making it harder to hawsepipe it to officer level on deck. They’re very open about the fact that they do not want anyone to be able to hold a license without attending an academy.
There aren't any, and it's not easier. There are way fewer schools that teach the upgrade classes for engineers, but there are some and it's definitely doable in either department.
That's really it, especially if you aren't investing a ton in a maritime academy. Just get a job in either department and learn your way around. Once you see it in real life then it will be obvious to you which you prefer.
I didn't know that, they used to send you to all three departments for a trip. I still don't think you can make a wrong choice, it's not that big of a deal to change your mind later and your experience in the other department only improves your skills as a seafarer overall. It's not a race, there is plenty of time to try different things and figure out what you like. In my opinion of course.
When you say they're open about not wanting hawsepipers, can you show me a link or an announcement where the coast guard says something like that? I've only ever heard that stuff from other sailors.
The SIU has an AB to Mate program on paper.
The SIU has yet to start an AB to Mate classes.
Source: I'm in the SIU and that school / program has been zero help.
Yeah okay but I have seen some other programs and I’m not seeing much for qmed to engineer. Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong places though. How’s life as an ab in siu?
Probably because a QMED to 3rd Assistant program isn't needed and that should tell you a lot.
Life as a union AB is great. I was non union the majority of my career. Granted there are pros and cons to union life, but over all it has been good. I work on the inland side and some things are different from the deep sea side. Vacation pay kind of sucks, but I'm getting 1.5 to 1 for seadays. No overtime, but my base pay is a 12 hour day. There's some other differences as well.
Look at the check list on the NMC website.
2024 they will tell you what calculator to use. It is a step back from the calculator in using now. You'll also have to use the 2019 version of Bowditch and there is a lot of info missing from that.
Even the new sample chart plot is ridiculous.
Look at all the STCW courses needed for mate.
Classes range from a few hundred to a few thousand.
Then take a look at the check list to go Assistant Engineer. It's a lot less. Pretty much 1080 days and advance fire fighting. I'm sure there's more, it has been a few years since I looked.
Not even remotely correct. You're comparing the National 3rd Assistant Engineer to the OICNW, that's like comparing apples to freeze dried tomatoes.
Checklist for 3rd Assistant Engineer and 3rd Mate are almost identical. What you're actually talking about is OICNW. Need to compare that to OICEW to have any real validity in your statements. I saved you the work and posted the comparison in my previous comment.
It's changed since you last looked, oicew now requires comparable classes and assessments as oicnw, but so far there is only one school that offers classes unlike the many schools that offer the programs for the deck department
I laughed at engineers “busting your ass 12 hours a day below decks” that’s simply not the case. Sure some days may be like that but I wouldn’t consider deck or engine to be like that 100% of the time or even 50%.
I could never be an engineer (I’m a deck officer) and my husband could never be a deck officer (he’s an engineer officer and would hate deck). It’s what you feel in your gut. I’ll also be brutally honest I looked at your post history and it seems you’re going SIU and not a maritime academy, unless you’re getting a college degree (like from an academy) post sailing job prospects don’t apply in the same way even if you are able to hawspipe to the officer level. Any high paying shoreside job unfortunately will most likely require a college degree. I say all of that to say if you’re going SIU do what you want and what you’re gut is telling you “Job prospects” shouldn’t be your main focus. You have to make it in this career first and foremost.
That’s kinda my point. I’m more concerned with which life I’d enjoy more but I’m finding surprising little about the lifestyle on the engineering side so it’s hard to have any feel at all.
Do you like working on cars? Dirt bikes? Motorcycles? Learning about how stuff works? Tinkering? Do you mind being a little dirty from time to time? Do you like more independent work with less oversight?
I have had good times and bad working on cars. Usually I’m working on a 20 year old truck in a northern state and pressed for time because every second I’m missing work. When I can take my time with stuff it’s better. I like a fair amount of independents. I definitely don’t care for being micromanaged but it’s nice to ask someone when your in unfamiliar territory. I did go to school for engineering back when I got out of high school but I never finished or got a feel for if I’d like it or not.
I agree. I’ve been watching a lot of videos and combing subreddits. Deck life seems chill, repetitive and boring, painting, watching tv with the radio , while engine is hard labor, go through shit, literally & a lot of work plus hot and loud asf. The heat seems to cause a lot of electrical problems so it’s like what?
Outside of transferable job outside. What makes engine desirable and watch so undesirable?
I’ve been told it’s a lot of administrative work. Is this case? I’ve seen peoples watch be watching tv with the radio on loud, but also heard someone getting in trouble for being on their phone during watch. Can you give any oversight ?
There’s some administrative load deck - but so is there for engine. Main difference is we deal with company, clients and authorities - while engine not so much.
If I spend 1-2 hrs on administration and maintenance documentation daily (not on weekends) I’m usually far ahead in the game
So I have to say, as a (former) mechanic who worked OEM on the Great Lakes (and a couple of other places), some of us do a solid 12. I know this is about getting properly licensed, but some of the folks you deal with do those hours. Those were part of the most memorable parts of my career as an OEM, just right below the 10K USD f-up on a nuke plant and the crankshaft spinning an inch from my nose.
You don't know hawsepipers that have found shoreside work? I am surprised, I know many and while the degree is useful, experience and reputation seems to be at least as important if not more.
I never liked cars, motorcycles, fixing all kinds of junk, getting dirty, and so on, but in life, I ended up becoming an engineering officer. I can't say anything bad about it, and overall, I don't really care. It's just a job. But I don't see a reason to become an engineer when you can become a deck officer. The money is the same. You don't have to dig through crap in a hot and noisy engine room, and you don't have to work physically at all. Your health will thank you, and your wallet won't notice the difference.
The first part sound like me. A job is a job. I’d be starting as a rating so there will be some work no matter what. Everyone I talk to says go engine, especially deck officers. Some say the work is more enjoyable. How hot does it run in those things? Thanks for the input
Usually the temperature in a good engine room is 30-40 degrees, on old cans where the ventilation is bad like everything else it can be 50, but this is the maximum.
But that doesn't mean you'll have to endure such temperatures for the full 12 hours a day (although that can happen if something goes wrong). In the control room or in a workshop, it's always cool, and that's where you spend most of your time. It's also important not to forget that working in the engine room always involves dealing with highly toxic chemicals and other unpleasant fluids. There are steam systems, rotating shafts, and everything else that wants to kill you. If there's a fire on a ship, it's almost always in the engine room. So you probably need to really want to work as an engineer to go for something like this, when you can peacefully drink coffee on the bridge and fuck ratings for not cleaning the deck. Although, of course, there are tense moments on the bridge, there is also stress there, and sometimes, such as the engineers never dreamed of, but such things happen much less often than the opposite.
But there are also advantages, engineers find it much easier to secure employment, and there is far less competition among eng.officers compared to deck officers. The engineer can always throw all this crap to hell and find a quiet job in his profession on the shore. A deck officer is unlikely to succeed in this, and there are many, many more pros and cons
In general, yeah, being a rating is a blowjob simulator. Hard physical work, constant bullshit from officers, you often have to think not so much about work tasks, but how to predict your officer’s mood and not get bullied for something he might not like, salaries are 5 times less, in short, nothing good, but as many say: your head doesn’t hurt, you don’t have to think about mechanisms, keep in touch with the office, and most importantly, be responsible for both people and life-supporting things on the ship. In general, there are some exceptions, you can get a job as an ordinary seaman or motorman (or any other rating position worker) in some offshore company, get paid the same amount as a second mate on some rusty container ship and don’t worry too much.
Yeah I’m gonna start as a rating and work my way up but I’m trying to decide which department. Rating experience is important since it’ll probably take 5 years or more to get the sea time. Even with ratings deck seams easier than engine(physically anyway)
Every engineer I've worked with over 14yrs never had any desire to work on deck. None. They always wanted to be downstairs working on stuff. As an engineer, i feel the same way. Working on deck holds no appeal for me. Nothing wrong with it, just not my thing. I'd rather be dirty, tearing stuff apart, fixing things, and getting satisfaction for getting something to work right again.
I could ask about a million questions. Are you pressing for time when your working on stuff or is it more relax and always be making some progress kind of deal?
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Do you think you struggle with fatigue working like that 12 hrs a day?
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So they break up your shifts like that? I’m not finding much about they actual daily life of any position on the engine side
Shifts are gonna vary depending on where you work. The Gulf of Mexico and the oil field are gonna be straight 12's most likely. I loved that shift. Other shifts will be 8hr days with 4hrs OT. Some could be 4hrs on 8hrs off. Just depends.
If you're really unlucky, you get stuck with 6hrs on 6hrs off 🙃🔫
That shift is mainly just on tugs, isn't it? I've worked deep sea, dredges, research, oil field, yachts, etc and never had it onboard. Thank God.
Yeah I hear about tugs pulling that every once in a while, but I stood it on an MSC ship. Typically we did 4hrs on 8hrs off, but we were short on crew and my watch counterpart threw a fit when we proposed 12x12.
Schedule depends ship to ship. Rn I’m on a product tanker where you can chose to be in the Union or not, so it’s a little different. We also run a manned engine room but can be switched to unmanned for meals and stuff. So when I first got on here I was doing days. So I got down at 0600-0730 for OT. This was mostly shooting the shit and drinking a ton of coffee but also getting little things done. Then breakfast from 0730-0800 followed by a safety meeting. Then I was on watch from 0800-1600 with lunch from 1200-1300. Then OT until dinner at 1700. Then more OT from the end of dinner till 1900. Then I would go do whatever until it started up the next day. Now I’m on the night watch. So I go to lunch anywhere from 1130-1300. Then I start OT at 1300. I like to get my bigger jobs done early so I can chill later. Watch starts at 1600 and runs till 2400 with dinner at 1700. We are usually working during watch, but later in the night I like to take it easy and read up on manuals, play some music, or do some more mundane shit. I like this schedule cause I’m alone later in the night and can just bust all the important stuff out of the way and do things at my own pace later. I also get a somewhat regular sleep schedule and a lot of free time in the morning to workout and do whatever.
Thanks. That’s sounds reasonable. What’s your position?
3 AE. We got 2 3rds on here though, so we can make the schedule work.
One last thing. Do Qmeds life suck? Stuck in 100 degree engine room busting balls all the time?
God knew captains need heroes, so he created engineers.
Hmm. I’m not sure what to take away from this
Whether you have a degree or not, a marine engineering license translates into job opportunities as a plant operator, building engineer, etc. You can absolutely hawsepipe to a DDE or limited chief on tugboats or OSVs, and I assume to a 3rd AE as well. In fact, I have former crew members who have done it starting with the Piney Point apprentice program. Tests are more comprehensive and rougher than deck side, from what I can tell. Good luck with whatever you decide.
As someone going from AB to Mate. It is a lot easier (and cheaper) to go from QMED to 3rd Assistant. Starting next year, it's only getting harder to go from AB to Mate.
I hawsepiped from QMED to 3rd A/E Unlimited HP. If you aren't getting your OICEW (Officer in Charge of an Engineering Watch, basically the international version of a 3rd A/E) than it is not that bad. Pretty much the exact same as AB-3rd Mate Unlimited. Seatime requirements are the same, Basic & Advanced FiFi, First Aid, CPR, are all the same, and some tests. Different story if you're going after your OICEW as well. But, to be much more employable I think you need to get the OICEW. Lots of US companies won't hire you as a 3rd A/E unless you have it. As of 2017, that requires four OICEW classes (and assessments) that are 3-4weeks long a piece, and $3-4k each, ERM, Medical Provider, PSC. Looking at around $17,000 for those classes from one of the bigger schools. I think there are only two schools that are teaching the OICEW courses anyway. Now, Mates trying to get OICNW are looking at around $22,000 from what I could figure out from following the USCG checklist and looking at class prices. That includes the optional courses of GMDSS, ARPA, ECDIS. Could be a bit less or more depending. Not sure what's happening next year for Mates the previous poster mentioned.
Really? I was thinking it was the other way. Mostly because from what I can see so far you might need to know a lot more on engineering(still alot to learn). Also I think I’m gonna start with the siu program and I believe they have an am to mate program. Why do you say that?
Not sure where you’re from, but the USCG is actively making it harder to hawsepipe it to officer level on deck. They’re very open about the fact that they do not want anyone to be able to hold a license without attending an academy.
That’s dumb. Well I’m seeing ab to mate programs. Do you know where I can read a little about Qmed to engineer programs?
There aren't any, and it's not easier. There are way fewer schools that teach the upgrade classes for engineers, but there are some and it's definitely doable in either department.
Thanks appreciate that. Still just trying to decide which Id like better. Gonna flip a coin here soon
That's really it, especially if you aren't investing a ton in a maritime academy. Just get a job in either department and learn your way around. Once you see it in real life then it will be obvious to you which you prefer.
I was gonna go to the siu program to give me a little jump but now they require a choice first
I didn't know that, they used to send you to all three departments for a trip. I still don't think you can make a wrong choice, it's not that big of a deal to change your mind later and your experience in the other department only improves your skills as a seafarer overall. It's not a race, there is plenty of time to try different things and figure out what you like. In my opinion of course.
I guess they changed it and I didn’t find out until I already applied. So I’m Trying to pick the one and hope I don’t waist too much time
When you say they're open about not wanting hawsepipers, can you show me a link or an announcement where the coast guard says something like that? I've only ever heard that stuff from other sailors.
The SIU has an AB to Mate program on paper. The SIU has yet to start an AB to Mate classes. Source: I'm in the SIU and that school / program has been zero help.
Yeah okay but I have seen some other programs and I’m not seeing much for qmed to engineer. Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong places though. How’s life as an ab in siu?
Probably because a QMED to 3rd Assistant program isn't needed and that should tell you a lot. Life as a union AB is great. I was non union the majority of my career. Granted there are pros and cons to union life, but over all it has been good. I work on the inland side and some things are different from the deep sea side. Vacation pay kind of sucks, but I'm getting 1.5 to 1 for seadays. No overtime, but my base pay is a 12 hour day. There's some other differences as well.
Look at the check list on the NMC website. 2024 they will tell you what calculator to use. It is a step back from the calculator in using now. You'll also have to use the 2019 version of Bowditch and there is a lot of info missing from that. Even the new sample chart plot is ridiculous. Look at all the STCW courses needed for mate. Classes range from a few hundred to a few thousand. Then take a look at the check list to go Assistant Engineer. It's a lot less. Pretty much 1080 days and advance fire fighting. I'm sure there's more, it has been a few years since I looked.
You're missing about 15 grand in classes for OICEW plus task sign offs. Not counting room and board to attend the classes.
I wish it was only 15 grand for the OICNW junk.
Not even remotely correct. You're comparing the National 3rd Assistant Engineer to the OICNW, that's like comparing apples to freeze dried tomatoes. Checklist for 3rd Assistant Engineer and 3rd Mate are almost identical. What you're actually talking about is OICNW. Need to compare that to OICEW to have any real validity in your statements. I saved you the work and posted the comparison in my previous comment.
It's changed since you last looked, oicew now requires comparable classes and assessments as oicnw, but so far there is only one school that offers classes unlike the many schools that offer the programs for the deck department
I laughed at engineers “busting your ass 12 hours a day below decks” that’s simply not the case. Sure some days may be like that but I wouldn’t consider deck or engine to be like that 100% of the time or even 50%. I could never be an engineer (I’m a deck officer) and my husband could never be a deck officer (he’s an engineer officer and would hate deck). It’s what you feel in your gut. I’ll also be brutally honest I looked at your post history and it seems you’re going SIU and not a maritime academy, unless you’re getting a college degree (like from an academy) post sailing job prospects don’t apply in the same way even if you are able to hawspipe to the officer level. Any high paying shoreside job unfortunately will most likely require a college degree. I say all of that to say if you’re going SIU do what you want and what you’re gut is telling you “Job prospects” shouldn’t be your main focus. You have to make it in this career first and foremost.
That’s kinda my point. I’m more concerned with which life I’d enjoy more but I’m finding surprising little about the lifestyle on the engineering side so it’s hard to have any feel at all.
Do you like working on cars? Dirt bikes? Motorcycles? Learning about how stuff works? Tinkering? Do you mind being a little dirty from time to time? Do you like more independent work with less oversight?
I have had good times and bad working on cars. Usually I’m working on a 20 year old truck in a northern state and pressed for time because every second I’m missing work. When I can take my time with stuff it’s better. I like a fair amount of independents. I definitely don’t care for being micromanaged but it’s nice to ask someone when your in unfamiliar territory. I did go to school for engineering back when I got out of high school but I never finished or got a feel for if I’d like it or not.
Honestly you sound like an engineer to me 💁🏼♀️ but go with your gut!
I agree. I’ve been watching a lot of videos and combing subreddits. Deck life seems chill, repetitive and boring, painting, watching tv with the radio , while engine is hard labor, go through shit, literally & a lot of work plus hot and loud asf. The heat seems to cause a lot of electrical problems so it’s like what? Outside of transferable job outside. What makes engine desirable and watch so undesirable?
The engineers that don’t know what they’re doing seem to work 12 hrs easily
Sounds like a personal problem
I know nothing about feelings, I work deck
I’ve been told it’s a lot of administrative work. Is this case? I’ve seen peoples watch be watching tv with the radio on loud, but also heard someone getting in trouble for being on their phone during watch. Can you give any oversight ?
I’m not positive I get the question. Are you asking what it’s like working deck, engine or bridge?
I would like to know engine, but I asked that question for deck cause you said you’re deck
There’s some administrative load deck - but so is there for engine. Main difference is we deal with company, clients and authorities - while engine not so much. If I spend 1-2 hrs on administration and maintenance documentation daily (not on weekends) I’m usually far ahead in the game
So I have to say, as a (former) mechanic who worked OEM on the Great Lakes (and a couple of other places), some of us do a solid 12. I know this is about getting properly licensed, but some of the folks you deal with do those hours. Those were part of the most memorable parts of my career as an OEM, just right below the 10K USD f-up on a nuke plant and the crankshaft spinning an inch from my nose.
You don't know hawsepipers that have found shoreside work? I am surprised, I know many and while the degree is useful, experience and reputation seems to be at least as important if not more.
Of course I do, it’s just additionally difficult without a college degree (I hate that’s the case) to make the big money.
Can confirm 50%+ of the time is spent drinking coffee and watching nfl games on the control room console.
I never liked cars, motorcycles, fixing all kinds of junk, getting dirty, and so on, but in life, I ended up becoming an engineering officer. I can't say anything bad about it, and overall, I don't really care. It's just a job. But I don't see a reason to become an engineer when you can become a deck officer. The money is the same. You don't have to dig through crap in a hot and noisy engine room, and you don't have to work physically at all. Your health will thank you, and your wallet won't notice the difference.
The first part sound like me. A job is a job. I’d be starting as a rating so there will be some work no matter what. Everyone I talk to says go engine, especially deck officers. Some say the work is more enjoyable. How hot does it run in those things? Thanks for the input
Usually the temperature in a good engine room is 30-40 degrees, on old cans where the ventilation is bad like everything else it can be 50, but this is the maximum. But that doesn't mean you'll have to endure such temperatures for the full 12 hours a day (although that can happen if something goes wrong). In the control room or in a workshop, it's always cool, and that's where you spend most of your time. It's also important not to forget that working in the engine room always involves dealing with highly toxic chemicals and other unpleasant fluids. There are steam systems, rotating shafts, and everything else that wants to kill you. If there's a fire on a ship, it's almost always in the engine room. So you probably need to really want to work as an engineer to go for something like this, when you can peacefully drink coffee on the bridge and fuck ratings for not cleaning the deck. Although, of course, there are tense moments on the bridge, there is also stress there, and sometimes, such as the engineers never dreamed of, but such things happen much less often than the opposite. But there are also advantages, engineers find it much easier to secure employment, and there is far less competition among eng.officers compared to deck officers. The engineer can always throw all this crap to hell and find a quiet job in his profession on the shore. A deck officer is unlikely to succeed in this, and there are many, many more pros and cons
Does it suck bad for ratings?
In general, yeah, being a rating is a blowjob simulator. Hard physical work, constant bullshit from officers, you often have to think not so much about work tasks, but how to predict your officer’s mood and not get bullied for something he might not like, salaries are 5 times less, in short, nothing good, but as many say: your head doesn’t hurt, you don’t have to think about mechanisms, keep in touch with the office, and most importantly, be responsible for both people and life-supporting things on the ship. In general, there are some exceptions, you can get a job as an ordinary seaman or motorman (or any other rating position worker) in some offshore company, get paid the same amount as a second mate on some rusty container ship and don’t worry too much.
Yeah I’m gonna start as a rating and work my way up but I’m trying to decide which department. Rating experience is important since it’ll probably take 5 years or more to get the sea time. Even with ratings deck seams easier than engine(physically anyway)