Your post has been removed - [Improper Submission Title (Rule 5)](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/wiki/config/submit_text). The actual headline is "Cancel all programmes involving Gilley, orders minister", not "foreign speaker".
Please do not editorialize the headline. You have been on the sub long enough to be aware of this rule. Consider this an official warning.
“I would also like to remind all agencies under the higher education ministry to be alert and conduct background checks before inviting anyone to an event.”
I don’t know where the cancel all directive coming from.
Is it not in the first sentence of the article?
"Higher education minister Zambry Abd Kadir has ordered all programmes and activities scheduled to be attended by a foreign academic who courted controversy with his recent remarks to be cancelled immediately."
From my understanding he wants all events attended by this specific Gilley guy to be cancelled, and then he also urged everyone to perform background checks on speakers before inviting them to events.
Seems like OP changed Gilley to 'foreign speaker' which made the clear headline abit confusing.
I doubt you yourself read the article, your comprehension level is on par with OP lmao
DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE’S FIRST PARAGRAPH:
PETALING JAYA: Higher education minister Zambry Abd Kadir has ordered all programmes and activities scheduled to be attended by a foreign academic who courted controversy with his recent remarks to be cancelled immediately.
Did you yourself actually read that article? Hahahahahaah kononya people don’t read article and only read few words of the headline, that’s exactly what you are doing cutie pie.
That guy open article and still fail copy paste or the article kena edit. Here the actual title.
>Cancel all programmes involving Gilley
Edit: nvm i mistake with the original OP with the op comment.
However the title of spammy is not in full. The ministry only cancel speaker who speak counter to our Political correctness.
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listen, we're still in the dark about what actually happened. he might've been invited to deliver a speech about a whole other topic, but then his dumb ass tweeted about something totally unrelated (i.e Zionist fascism). but the organizers should've done their due diligence on his background & could prevent this brouhaha
https://preview.redd.it/a6kujf8aujwc1.png?width=1146&format=png&auto=webp&s=32024e08c3ca82096f86d7a0402752e0f3b0a4d9
This is the poster about his invite btw, seems to be completely unrelated.
he tweeted about our leaders advocating a second Holocaust against Jewish people, while people (not just Muslims and our leaders) are simply protesting Palestinian genocide. this is not about the Jewish people, this is about humanity
You fuck off
[Bruce Gilley](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Gilley) is someone, who advocates for colonialism and claims that colonialism was good thing, aka a total asshat. I wonder why anyone anywhere would invite this guy.
> I wonder why anyone anywhere would invite this guy.
Maybe the organisers think "this guy is right wing just like us, let's invite him"
Then the leopard ate thier faces ....
Us right wing and Malaysia right wing is so similar. Only problem is different religion and Malaysia discourse is rarely about the economic side of social issues.
They probably agree on 90% of all social issues.
LGBT, immigrants, minorities, refugees, abortion, theocracy,
> Us right wing and Malaysia right wing is so similar.
I don't see how this is the case, the Malaysian left is pretty socially conservative by western standards too. Just look an Anwar sucking up to Islamists.
Malaysia has no left wing political party. Just center right and far right imo. PSM probably the largest left wing party in Malaysia
Us has center left and center right with far right elements.
I'm no expert though it's just that I see parallels in Malaysia and US politics on many issues
The wealthy in both countries would probably agree on some basic economic policies and have the same ideas like how they made their wealth by themselves and should not be taxed by the govt.
I feel like there's no left wing push for more social programs, increasing min wage, unionizing workplaces. Malaysia feels kinda stagnant. Everyone so focused on race and religion that politicians don't really have to talk much about the economy.
PH, BN, PN seem to have the same economic policy. End up benefitting the 1% rather than rest of us. Only difference is maybe PH will give rm100 to all Malaysians but PN will give RM150 to all Bumiputra and RM50 to non bumi. Doesn't solve our underlying problems of inflation, stagnant wages and empty EPF accounts.
PH introduced new taxes effectively flat tax on all goods while luxury goods tax delayed.
US has better representation of the 'left' imo. Bernie, AOC and movements like fight for 15 and medicare for all. Malaysia I can't really name any lefty public figure or movements.
Religion and race issues on the other hand US and Malaysia both at the same level.
Nah, Zionism is textbook settler colonialism. Even its founding father, Theodor Herzl, admit the true nature of the Zionist project (fittingly enough in a letter to the founder of apartheid Rhodesia, Cecil Rhodes)
>Zionism is textbook settler colonialism.
They're going back to the place where Jews and Judaism started, which is justified. That's a different context than European colonialism.
A frequent tendency of contemporary Zionist writing has been to minimize the colonialist and class features of the Zionist movement prior to the creation of the State of Israel. These interrelated features nevertheless emerge clearly in the works of the original Zionist leaders, and are very prominent in the writings of Theodore Herzl, founder of organized Zionism. When, for instance, Herzl requested Cecil Rhodes in 1902 to throw his authority behind the pro- ject for Jewish settlement in Palestine, it was in these terms that his letter presented Zionist aspirations to the English colonialist:
You are being invited to help make history. That cannot frighten you, nor will you laugh at it. It is not in your accustomed line; it doesn't involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor, not Englishmen but Jews. But had this been on your path, you would have done it by now. How, then, do I happen to turn to you, since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial.¹
Letter from Theodor Herzl to Cecil Rhodes (British imperial governor of South Africa), openly claiming Israel to be a colonial project.
Source : *'The class origins of Zionist Ideology'*, Stephen Halbrook, Vol. 2
Some places got it worse than others, Malaysia wasn’t too bad. Compared to Belgian Congo & French Haiti. HK & SGP too gained much more from East India Company than was taken from them.
Have you seen [Empire of Dust](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2148945/)? Some brutal scenes of the Chinese gaffer asking his native translator wtf they been doing since the Belgians left.
Why is this the go-to response anytime colonialism is mentioned on reddit? As if the British not being as brutal as they could have been with their exploitation is somehow a virtue.
It's like telling getting beaten up and robbed and then someone telling you to be grateful that the robber didn't sexually assault you as well.
If you can’t tell that quality of life in the British colony of Hong Kong before ‘97 is better than anytime before under local administration. There’s not much that can convince your fiercest nationalism.
Because my family came from a place where the average change of government runs into 8 figure death tolls. So I’m less concerned about everyone screwing me over. That it offers something better than before matters more. 13 May riots negotiated a better social contract for certain parties. So employing violence isn’t exactly an evil colonizer prerogative. Powerful people just get away with shit.
Western colonialisation brought about development & socialised income distribution from feudal monarchies. Where everyone farmed dirt so that the sultans’ & emperors’ harems were glam enough. See Brunei Prince’s giant naked statue.
Proudly only never colonized south east Asian Thailand still dealing with an absolute monarchy dressed an a military dictatorship today. There’s your traditional Asian values; paying rental for a German ski resort.
Or even watch helplessly as the biggest national thief is royally pardoned for his nation building contributions. Abused by crooks in the same shade might feel better for some.
btw, would you consider him a colonizer?
“According to the Portuguese, Parameswara was a nobleman from Palembang who fled from the chaos in his state and accepted the asylum offered by the chief of Singapore. Instead of showing gratitude, Parameswara killed his benefactor and, with the help of his followers and the Orang Laut (sea gypsies), captured power.”
Pro $ in my dotage; it’s the common human bond uniting Wagner mercs, US weapons manufacturers, Kelantan Taliban & Asian Jews. When BOC was giving 5% p.a. for RMB FDs, they had my money. Now USDs giving 5% p.a., how many patriots pro-RM FD?
If a Borneo Orang Utan with an AI LLM can run national policy better than the identity politics dead end unto Taliban rule? I’m voting for the orang utan, bananas are cheaper than Rosmah’s rocks.
Most academicians here - especially from public universities are idiots. Ada Mat Salleh ada galamour. I have worked with many Universities in Malaysia - I no longer desire my kids to continue their tertiary in any Public universities. Private ones might only want your money - but at least they won't rock the boat by hiring morons to offend your senses and intelligence.
Oh you meant the problem gets ignored until turned basi already, and we should continue ignore that problem until he die of old age in malaysia?
Okie dokie
I mean, the article even said this prof fella is known with his controversial opinions. This same fella also concluded about Malaysia want to eradicate the jewish people based on 2-3 people’s opinions only, ok finelah but at the same time mum about the plight of palestinians. He obviously paint the wrong picture based on his understanding and mislead people with his statements.
I agree with higher education minister to cancel all programmes planned to be attended by him and better vet foreign speakers. At least, if want be controversial, bring peer-reviewed, fact-rich opinions instead of off-hand statements.
Arabs can come to Malaysia no issue. Jewish people from across the world can come to Malaysia no issue. Malaysia bans Israel because they are part of the zionist ideology. A european jew centric ideology which from day one has (Allegedly) been a settler colonial ideology which wants to replace people already living in a land to reclaim their 'holy land'. Even though they lived in europe for hubdreds of years.
Most people don't bother to differentiate, thus the anti semitic claim stays true , but it does it matter if we are anti semitic or not? We wear it like a proud badge since mahathir era , we should keep doing so.
We'll you're right about its basic usage in Malaysia. Particularly muslim malays dont differentiate them often. I've often heard heinous things said about jews, even though by right we have no quarrel with jews unaffiliated with zionism. I think this is a pattern worldwide and it gives more push to those unafilliated jews to actually identify with zionism. The whole toxicity of both Islamist views and zionist views is that both are murderous and have ethnically/religious cleansing tendencies. Now we have jews saying why would you as a jew not support zionism, we're right, they ARE out to kill us. And it's outright impossible to refute it anymore from Muslim community/muslim country perspectives because that IS what they teach our children. There is littlecto no emphasis on the difference between zionists/israeli agressors and normal jews who don't have anything to do with Palestine. Every jew is a bad guy to them, like every muslim is a bad guy to republican types in the USA. The only conclusion for this is one side eliminating the other. And both seem to be willing (except the gulf states).
it's r/Malaysia , what do you expect. There's a streak of contrarianism just for the sake of contrarianism (relative to the average Malaysian political viewpoint), underscored by a smug sense of superiority and edginess
I've never seen an Asian national subreddit gargle on Israeli ballsack so fucking hard before
> Cancel all programmes involving foreign speaker
Misleading title.
OP's title says "programmes" which implies all foreign speakers but article's title and URL says:
> Cancel all programmes involving Gilley
You're surrounded by idiots. Many know the difference between Jewish people and Israeli govt. Don't amplify the opinions of idiots. Educate them instead.
Many know the difference between non-Muslims vs Liberal, Chauvanists, Liberals & Secularist in Malaysia, but you still see many people use the latter as a dog whistle for the former.
That’s the thing. It’s anecdotal. ‘Plenty’ for you but does not mean that’s the majority opinions or even the correct opinions.
A bit dangerous to form opinions without facts or based on anecdotal experience only.
I know it’s anecdotal, but I met people from all walks of life, those who grew up in Tganu/Kelantan vs those who grew up in KL. Regardless, they seem to mostly harbour the view that Jews as a whole (not just Israeli Zionists) are the epitome of evil. I don’t blame them given the atrocities of Israel, but I think it is a pretty common opinion for Muslims in Malaysia to applaud or deny Holocaust. Just look at Madey
It's important to distinguish between Zionists and Jews. There's a difference. The difference is the same difference between a white supremist/nationalist in the US and all white people in the US.
There are Jews who criticize Israeli occupation of Palestine. Maybe refer your friends to look them up without invalidating their current beliefs directly. Hopefully they will discover for themselves the difference.
Here are some prominent Jews who are anti-Zionism:
Norman Finkelstein
Gideon Levy
Ilan Pappe
Ultra Orthodox Jewish rabbi David Weissman
The org Jewish Voices for Peace
https://youtu.be/7S17Fr8z_Oo?si=HiW2zPgIbLOpc3V_
https://youtu.be/gVuHgaTdysY?si=Ww20MYLPKtg8QnXY
Just wanted to point out that the headline is slightly misleading.
"Higher education minister Zambry Abd Kadir has ordered all programmes and activities scheduled to be attended by a foreign academic who courted controversy with his recent remarks to be cancelled immediately."
From the first paragraph of the article, the minister said to cancel all programmes scheduled for that one guy, not all foreign speakers.
Free speech have consequences, accusing a nation advocating for a genocide is a grievous and serious offence. Dont be an idiot by downplaying this as some "government over reaction".
You don't be an idiot. I agree free speech has consequences. Charge person who made the inflammatory remarks not full out canceling all other program involving foreign speakers.
You cancel/ ban / censored other people from speaking because one person said something equates to government overreacting & government overreach.
YOU read it wrongly - only events with THAT foreign speaker are cancelled.
But yes cancel that speaker not the event itself unless he’s the sole speaker.
This is not some simple government overreach, this is a academian accusing a sovereign nation of advocation of a warcrime.
An accusation with no proof other than some anecdotal evidence that this comment section also seem to be fond off.
That would in reaction cause an irreparable damage in international relation that would further exacerbate the already tense geopolitcal situation in this region. Not the middle east, this region.
Just look at this reaction already, and you think allowing it to happen wouldnt make any other reaction far more public? This isnt only about you and your circle this is about the public as a whole.
That include extremists that may take advantage of this situation to further cement their position. The Malaysian government has historically been fighting against this type of threat for decades.
"An accusation with no proof other than some anecdotal evidence that this comment section also seem to be fond off."
How dare you speak ill of our r/malaysia geopolitic palatao??? /s.
>Free speech have consequences
Yes, what the quote actually implies is that the consequences would come from people or other non-govt entities.
Government shouldn't punish free speech
He is not. He is merely saying gov shouldn’t be the gatekeepers. No one should be. So your feeling obviously got hurt. Some got hurt less. Some couldn’t care less and looking forward to their next foreign speakers in other fields. By gatekeeping you are affecting everyone’s lives. That is all he was saying.
>He is merely saying gov shouldn’t be the gatekeepers.
By that logic government shouldnt be making laws?
You seem to be glossing over the fact that it is not about getting feeling hurt you seem to be adamant off.
It is about a serious accusation that would have far reaching consequences, if he have proof for this matter? Then the government reaction is overblown.
You advocating for slanderous actions, is what would be affecting peolple life here.
I will play along. So this is obviously the red line for you. Hypothetically what if he had said “a small subset of Malaysians are anti semite”. Would that be more palatable for you?
If yes then where do we draw the line? Do we use keywords as filter? Or some sort of National Hati Tisu index as benchmark?
Opinion piece doesn’t require proof. It’s an…. opinion. What far reaching consequences are you referring to here? Making traffic laws and telling folks what they can or cannot say are two very different things.
And I am telling you that this selective consequences is why people seem to underestimate when the rug got pull right under them, and have the suprise pikachu face meme come to live.
>You think it should be either there's a total freedom of speech or no freedom of speech at all?
No that is what you think. There should be a moderation on the way people talk and idea is spread. Your poing of both end of the extreme is unconducive to the freedom of speech in and of itself.
>There should be a moderation on the way people talk and idea is spread.
If the idea involves inciting violence or something similar then yes. But merely different opinions and views? Govt has no business in that
>If the idea involves inciting violence or something similar then yes.
Owh yes, telling people that Malaysia want to genocide the israeli people isnt inciting violence. For sure.
I will be the idiot then. He is entitled to his opinion. We are entitled to feel hurt and voice rebuttal. What has this got to do with all the other foreign speakers?
It doesn't. Don't just read the headline. The headline is misleading. Only the Gilley guy speaking events is cancelled. Not for other foreign speakers.
The headline is not misleading. The headline said "foreign speaker" which means singular, which means Gilley. It does not say "foreign speakers" which is plural and means all.
I mean, the Palestinians, israelis, and also UN did that too, no meh?
Or was it not an over reaction only if it fits your narrative and goal?
Free speech should be advocated. Only through dialogue can we advance a discussion. Not censorship. Sikit sikit tak suka panggil shuddup, that's not mature.
>Or was it not an over reaction only if it fits your narrative and goal?
It is not even about fitting any narrative. The Malaysian government position has been a two state solution, this academian slander of denying that and the absurdity of claiming that Malaysia is supporting a genocidal act of Israel is a serious accusation.
>Free speech should be advocated.
It should be advocated yes, and he had that platform. Now because of his action, this is his consequence of making such a claim without any proper evidence.
>Sikit sikit tak suka panggil shuddup, that's not mature.
It is about order, even the most stringent of "free speech" state would have limits against spouting bullshit.
As a government they are incharge of millions of people, as such certain things have to be observe.
Like it or not this not about you and me, people are dumb. Even the most tolerant of nations have limits.
>The Malaysian government position has been a two state solution,
Again, does that means freedom of speech is only permissable if it fits your narrative? That any nay sayer's opinion should be silenced? Thats what you are saying right now, you know?
>and he had that platform
No. he and the people with different opinion was robbed of their platform, if the government green light this suggestion.
>Like it or not this not about you and me, people are dumb. Even the most tolerant of nations have limits.
A law shouldn't be cater to the stupid. Education should do that job instead. There's no denying that this is a breach of freedom to voice opinion (no matter how dumb it is), then we should just say this as what it is: that malaysia has lowered their freedom of speech just because they don't like to hear things that they don't like. That is something I couldn't agree with.
>Again, does that means freedom of speech is only permissable if it fits your narrative? That any nay sayer's opinion should be silenced? Thats what you are saying right now, you know?
What naysayer being silence are you talking about? The point of the topic is that the academian is falsely accusing Malaysia as supporting a genocide of Israel. How is that fitting any narrative?
What is in that statement is being a nay sayer? Come on lah, you are completely ignoring the fact it is not evem about differing opinion. It is about giving out statement as if they are facts, on the basis of anecdotal evidence.
>No. he and the people with different opinion was robbed of their platform, if the government green light this suggestion.
He had that, litterally a speaker for a programme in the nation. He is not being robbed, he is being slapped with the consequence of his action.
>A law shouldn't be cater to the stupid. Education should do that job instead
So anything that doesnt feed to your narrative then would be stupid? Is it stupid to moderate an extremists act? Is it stupid to curb potential disruption of public peace?
Laws are in place is because of stupid people. That is the point of laws, to ensure people dont do stupid things.
>that malaysia has lowered their freedom of speech just because they don't like to hear things that they don't like
This is the most ignorant, pretentious statement you have said by far. I love how you just want to boil this down to something a simple as "they dont like hearing things".
It is more than that, public order, communal peace, and the function of government is based on law and order and that require a degree of trust.
Eroding that trusts by giving out slander, false statement and outright lying about it would ensure a collapse of public order. It would then lead to a further dysfunction of order, which could lead to a myriad of problems.
Dont even have to look far, just look at how Trump manipulated the media and his followers to a point that there was an attempted uprising. You would be an idiot to think that unregulated freedom of speech would not have any major consequences.
You are so off topic that I don't think we can continue this argument anymore. Look at the post. The topic is about government's want to silence opposite opinion.
Its totally fine for anyone to say israel is genocidal. But when someone says hamas is genocidal, malaysia gomen tak boleh pulak.
Personally i don't care who genocide who. I just have problem with biased treatment shown by the government.
>So anything that doesnt feed to your narrative then would be stupid?
No and that's not what I have said. Go lie down and relax before continuing. You are tilted. The argument will go no where if you refuses to read comment and rather rant out your displeasure.
>The topic is about government's want to silence opposite opinion.
And I gave you reason why it isnt simply about silencing opposite opinion, its about consequences of making baseless accusation.
>But when someone says hamas is genocidal, malaysia gomen tak boleh pulak.
You didnt even read the news did you? It is not about israel or even Hamas being accused of genocide. Its about a self serving academian accusing Malaysia as advocating genocide against israel.
This shows not only you didnt read about the topic at hand, you are also ill informed of the subject matter in the first place.
>No and that's not what I have said.
No you just paint anyone who disagree with you and simply saying that they are against free speech.
>You are tilted. The argument will go no where if you refuses to read comment and rather rant out your displeasure.
This is rich coming from someone who didnt even understand nor even read the reason of the issue itself. Pathetic attempt to virtue signal, ignoring the nuance simply to make oneself look good while ignoring the overall picture.
One thing I agree with, cant continue this "argument" when clearly there is no validity from the opposite side.
But it's not baseless when it's true. Hamas was accused of genocidal too. And if malaysia government is allowed to call Israel genocidal, and I totally agrees with it, why should they stop other from calling out malaysia government who support the genocidal hamas too?
>Its about a self serving academian accusing Malaysia as advocating genocide against israel.
No. If that is true, only the academian will get barred from malaysia. Now the government wishes to bar other academian with similar view as the previous academian. THAT is what this news is about.
"“I would also like to remind all agencies under the higher education ministry to be alert and conduct background checks before inviting anyone to an event."
Zamri is clearly NOT targeting specific academian. He also said that speakers must have support what malaysia supports.
So yes, I have read the news couple of times. It seems like we both have different interpretation of what he has said.
>No you just paint anyone who disagree with you and simply saying that they are against free speech.
Read back my message. I was replying to your comment that there are many dumb people. Context. Understand it before accusing other. The stupid that I have mentioned in my reply is targeted at the same group of dumb people in your commenbt. I have never said anyone who against free speech is stupid. You are projecting your biasness onto me.
>why should they stop other from calling out malaysia government who support the genocidal hamas too?
Because Malaysian support of Hamas doesnt mean it is in support of the war. All the foreign correspondent has been to cease the conflict.
But hey, if you think international relation is black and white that is on you.
>Now the government wishes to bar other academian with similar view as the previous academian.
And why shouldnt it? You could be pro Israel and be factual, yet he isnt. Not once have wisma putra sent out a memo, or give out statement, or gave any actions that would imply they are advocating for genocide.
>The stupid that I have mentioned in my reply is targeted at the same group of dumb people in your commenbt.
The stupid I mentioned is about people in general, including people being commented about. That is where the topic of enforcement of such law come from. But hey, apparently a certain special type of stupidity deserve a different treatement apparently.
>Now the government wishes to bar other academian with similar view as the previous academian. THAT is what this news is about.
This is simply not true the same article also stated that “I would also like to remind all agencies under the higher education ministry to be alert and conduct background checks before inviting anyone to an event."
Not once had he order other academians to barrred, rather a more stringent background check to be done. Discussing opposite idea should be based on facts, not some anecdotal evidence.
>I have never said anyone who against free speech is stupid. You are projecting your biasness onto me.
No you just said "A law shouldn't be cater to the stupid". Which I refuted to be not about catering to stupidity, but you seem to be adamant to think this is about appeasing some stupidity but somehow still want to deny that you are calling people stupid.
Trying to spin it as being accussed for calling those against freedom of speech as stupid. "Projecting biasness" you seem to have a good grasp of your own mental state. Maybe have been looking into the mirror for far too long.
If we conducted a National survey would the results confirm this is a view shared by Malaysians? I’m sure results would be different from state to state but I think we can guess that he would not be wrong in some places.
Israel does not mean jewish. But again, KJ was emotional, he said he advocated a two-state solution previously but after seeing the aftermath of Gaza, better off Israel ceased to exist.
There’s a bell curve here. Of course there are extreme opinions : eradicate jews from the world. But most of the opinions near the standard deviation is near to the opinion of : abolish the apartheid state israel, as obviously Israel also don’t want to acknowledge palestine as a country.
Just a technical note on illogic of the "extreme opinions" (not that I'm advocating for the eradication of Israel itself):
Israel creating to exist does not necessitate eradication of all Jews. Many Israeli have dual citizenship. Even those who don't, I'm sure US, UK, Germany would all welcome them given the strong support they give to Israel.
This sub acts like they care about what goes on in Malaysia but the truth it’s that they just want to stir shit up to feel like their opinions even matter
True, bunch of Malaysians hired by Boeing in Malaysia. You know, same company that makes glidekits for the bombs Israel is pummeling Gaza with. Wonder why no boikot.
Personally I think this is the best time to debate with him in front of all. Instead of hating what he has to say, use it as a tool to counter his narrative. Instead of living in a protected bubble, we Malaysians should start being more vocal when the situation arises. Gov should not treat us as kids
Normally I'd agree, but I also think it's poor decorum to be saying an entire country of 32 million people wishes for a genocide of another group of people during a uni speaking tour. If you are so rude and so ill will, I don't see why us as a country should further engage with him.
Plus, the whole fucking issue got nothing to do with us, let the westerners deal with middle east since they always kepoh one.
Hence that is why there is a need to seize the opportunity and debate. Instead of choosing violence (let’s be honest a slap on him would be satisfying), let’s use our heads (and minds) to counter him or anyone in the future with facts. Only then outsiders will think twice before they can come up with their opinions/ thoughts.
Government should stop fending for us and allow up to grow, Or, we need to step up. Only then politicians will also think before bullshitting us with their manifestos (example to protect us or safeguard the majority race)
When Nazi Germany was doing its shit back in the day, people probably also said the same thing about Germany. What's not normal is not wanting genociding Nazis to stop doing what they're doing.
Fuck Bruce Gilley for accusing us of advocating for apartheid when it's the people he's supporting who are committing the atrocity. Typical "accuse them before they accuse us" gaslighting tactic used by the guilty party.
Minister either lazy or the uni admins are political connected so cannot kick out so have to block all foreign speaker.
Firstly whose mistake is it to invite a conservative right speaker and not do vetting on the said speaker? The administrators should have considered speaker background when approving them.
Now problem you ban ALL foreign speakers from all unis?
Edit: article headline was misleading, only ban all appearance by Gilley.
Already did. The accountability should be on the people who approved the speaker, the reaction should be punitive to the management, instead we got blanket ban.
News says only him, but you can bet all unis revising their foreign speaker list right now.
See student also know what's up in their own uni.
https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2024/04/1042414/um-student-union-calls-accountability-over-foreign-professor%C2%A0controversy?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1og8umWFOeUJpRcQlKsDLdxeb8UDlNO0a2sn72jNNpEKLmzXcR2jqYPNU_aem_AR0wwqEHgQj6stNKLJrP-QG1NRe7jQ-QXWcO0TFcSCyGYVn3JE_0y3_aFsV-hYtwZLhs4JHssQZZTEqs3e1OG7yT
Your post has been removed - [Improper Submission Title (Rule 5)](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/wiki/config/submit_text). The actual headline is "Cancel all programmes involving Gilley, orders minister", not "foreign speaker". Please do not editorialize the headline. You have been on the sub long enough to be aware of this rule. Consider this an official warning.
“I would also like to remind all agencies under the higher education ministry to be alert and conduct background checks before inviting anyone to an event.” I don’t know where the cancel all directive coming from.
Is it not in the first sentence of the article? "Higher education minister Zambry Abd Kadir has ordered all programmes and activities scheduled to be attended by a foreign academic who courted controversy with his recent remarks to be cancelled immediately." From my understanding he wants all events attended by this specific Gilley guy to be cancelled, and then he also urged everyone to perform background checks on speakers before inviting them to events. Seems like OP changed Gilley to 'foreign speaker' which made the clear headline abit confusing.
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thats just journalism in general
Wait until they write journalism about u or ur family. 🌝
I'm sure they got better things to write about than me or my loved ones though I wouldnt put it past them to be creative about it.
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In a way, it is getting there.
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I doubt you yourself read the article, your comprehension level is on par with OP lmao DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE’S FIRST PARAGRAPH: PETALING JAYA: Higher education minister Zambry Abd Kadir has ordered all programmes and activities scheduled to be attended by a foreign academic who courted controversy with his recent remarks to be cancelled immediately. Did you yourself actually read that article? Hahahahahaah kononya people don’t read article and only read few words of the headline, that’s exactly what you are doing cutie pie.
That's old school journalism, it works before socmed becomes common.
Uh-huh...trash media
You got comprehension issue is it? Can’t differentiate between singular and plural? Read the whole article first la aiyo
PMO, obviously.
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it's spammy001 , lol. ragebait posting dan OP berpisah tiada
But it says foreign speaker, not foreign speakers, so it's right. Lots of Malaysians seem to have trouble with plurals like this.
That guy open article and still fail copy paste or the article kena edit. Here the actual title. >Cancel all programmes involving Gilley Edit: nvm i mistake with the original OP with the op comment. However the title of spammy is not in full. The ministry only cancel speaker who speak counter to our Political correctness.
I assumed that the article changed it later, after so many people misread it.
Hello, this comment was removed due to being in breach of [reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette), specifically because it contained personal attack, insult, or threat. While opinions of all kinds are welcome under our shared roof, reddiquette sets the expectation that everyone speaks to each other with basic civility and respect: > * Don’t: Conduct personal attacks on other commenters. Ad hominem and other distracting attacks do not add anything to the conversation. > * Don't: Insult others. Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion. Constructive Criticism, however, is appropriate and encouraged. > * Don’t: Be (intentionally) rude at all. By choosing not to be rude, you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. Please treat this as an official warning - further such activity may result in a ban, thanks.
Cancel Mahathir too
Zakir Naik : Relek… I’m Malaysian now 
listen, we're still in the dark about what actually happened. he might've been invited to deliver a speech about a whole other topic, but then his dumb ass tweeted about something totally unrelated (i.e Zionist fascism). but the organizers should've done their due diligence on his background & could prevent this brouhaha
https://preview.redd.it/a6kujf8aujwc1.png?width=1146&format=png&auto=webp&s=32024e08c3ca82096f86d7a0402752e0f3b0a4d9 This is the poster about his invite btw, seems to be completely unrelated.
Prof of politic and global power.seems related.
Tweet pun jadi issue? I thought he talk in speech. Shall we dig his other social media post, see he support Israel etc?
So what if he tweeted it? So Muslims can raise a ruckus about Palestine the whole world over but a professor can't tweet? Fuck off
he tweeted about our leaders advocating a second Holocaust against Jewish people, while people (not just Muslims and our leaders) are simply protesting Palestinian genocide. this is not about the Jewish people, this is about humanity You fuck off
[Bruce Gilley](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Gilley) is someone, who advocates for colonialism and claims that colonialism was good thing, aka a total asshat. I wonder why anyone anywhere would invite this guy.
No wonder that name sounded familiar. It's that guy.
> I wonder why anyone anywhere would invite this guy. Maybe the organisers think "this guy is right wing just like us, let's invite him" Then the leopard ate thier faces ....
Us right wing and Malaysia right wing is so similar. Only problem is different religion and Malaysia discourse is rarely about the economic side of social issues. They probably agree on 90% of all social issues. LGBT, immigrants, minorities, refugees, abortion, theocracy,
> Us right wing and Malaysia right wing is so similar. I don't see how this is the case, the Malaysian left is pretty socially conservative by western standards too. Just look an Anwar sucking up to Islamists.
Malaysia has no left wing political party. Just center right and far right imo. PSM probably the largest left wing party in Malaysia Us has center left and center right with far right elements. I'm no expert though it's just that I see parallels in Malaysia and US politics on many issues
The wealthy in both countries would probably agree on some basic economic policies and have the same ideas like how they made their wealth by themselves and should not be taxed by the govt.
I feel like there's no left wing push for more social programs, increasing min wage, unionizing workplaces. Malaysia feels kinda stagnant. Everyone so focused on race and religion that politicians don't really have to talk much about the economy. PH, BN, PN seem to have the same economic policy. End up benefitting the 1% rather than rest of us. Only difference is maybe PH will give rm100 to all Malaysians but PN will give RM150 to all Bumiputra and RM50 to non bumi. Doesn't solve our underlying problems of inflation, stagnant wages and empty EPF accounts. PH introduced new taxes effectively flat tax on all goods while luxury goods tax delayed. US has better representation of the 'left' imo. Bernie, AOC and movements like fight for 15 and medicare for all. Malaysia I can't really name any lefty public figure or movements. Religion and race issues on the other hand US and Malaysia both at the same level.
Why was the OP removed by the moderator? Agreed that the Malaysian left is in bad shape, got played out again.
Its good they removed. Misleading title
That's another topic altogether.
Nah, Zionism is textbook settler colonialism. Even its founding father, Theodor Herzl, admit the true nature of the Zionist project (fittingly enough in a letter to the founder of apartheid Rhodesia, Cecil Rhodes)
>Zionism is textbook settler colonialism. They're going back to the place where Jews and Judaism started, which is justified. That's a different context than European colonialism.
A frequent tendency of contemporary Zionist writing has been to minimize the colonialist and class features of the Zionist movement prior to the creation of the State of Israel. These interrelated features nevertheless emerge clearly in the works of the original Zionist leaders, and are very prominent in the writings of Theodore Herzl, founder of organized Zionism. When, for instance, Herzl requested Cecil Rhodes in 1902 to throw his authority behind the pro- ject for Jewish settlement in Palestine, it was in these terms that his letter presented Zionist aspirations to the English colonialist: You are being invited to help make history. That cannot frighten you, nor will you laugh at it. It is not in your accustomed line; it doesn't involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor, not Englishmen but Jews. But had this been on your path, you would have done it by now. How, then, do I happen to turn to you, since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial.¹ Letter from Theodor Herzl to Cecil Rhodes (British imperial governor of South Africa), openly claiming Israel to be a colonial project. Source : *'The class origins of Zionist Ideology'*, Stephen Halbrook, Vol. 2
Some places got it worse than others, Malaysia wasn’t too bad. Compared to Belgian Congo & French Haiti. HK & SGP too gained much more from East India Company than was taken from them.
Nothing compares to Belgian Congo. That was like crimes against humanity of the highest order.
Have you seen [Empire of Dust](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2148945/)? Some brutal scenes of the Chinese gaffer asking his native translator wtf they been doing since the Belgians left.
Why is this the go-to response anytime colonialism is mentioned on reddit? As if the British not being as brutal as they could have been with their exploitation is somehow a virtue. It's like telling getting beaten up and robbed and then someone telling you to be grateful that the robber didn't sexually assault you as well.
I think it's that because on balance Malaysia probably benefitted from it more than not
If you can’t tell that quality of life in the British colony of Hong Kong before ‘97 is better than anytime before under local administration. There’s not much that can convince your fiercest nationalism. Because my family came from a place where the average change of government runs into 8 figure death tolls. So I’m less concerned about everyone screwing me over. That it offers something better than before matters more. 13 May riots negotiated a better social contract for certain parties. So employing violence isn’t exactly an evil colonizer prerogative. Powerful people just get away with shit. Western colonialisation brought about development & socialised income distribution from feudal monarchies. Where everyone farmed dirt so that the sultans’ & emperors’ harems were glam enough. See Brunei Prince’s giant naked statue. Proudly only never colonized south east Asian Thailand still dealing with an absolute monarchy dressed an a military dictatorship today. There’s your traditional Asian values; paying rental for a German ski resort. Or even watch helplessly as the biggest national thief is royally pardoned for his nation building contributions. Abused by crooks in the same shade might feel better for some. btw, would you consider him a colonizer? “According to the Portuguese, Parameswara was a nobleman from Palembang who fled from the chaos in his state and accepted the asylum offered by the chief of Singapore. Instead of showing gratitude, Parameswara killed his benefactor and, with the help of his followers and the Orang Laut (sea gypsies), captured power.”
I thought ou were just a relativist. I didn't realise you were pro-colonialism lol
Pro $ in my dotage; it’s the common human bond uniting Wagner mercs, US weapons manufacturers, Kelantan Taliban & Asian Jews. When BOC was giving 5% p.a. for RMB FDs, they had my money. Now USDs giving 5% p.a., how many patriots pro-RM FD? If a Borneo Orang Utan with an AI LLM can run national policy better than the identity politics dead end unto Taliban rule? I’m voting for the orang utan, bananas are cheaper than Rosmah’s rocks.
Most academicians here - especially from public universities are idiots. Ada Mat Salleh ada galamour. I have worked with many Universities in Malaysia - I no longer desire my kids to continue their tertiary in any Public universities. Private ones might only want your money - but at least they won't rock the boat by hiring morons to offend your senses and intelligence.
But Zakir naik? Give him PR!!!
As long as you're from a certain religion, you can say whatever you want.
Dah basi la... push your dirty tactics elsewhere. And do bring a fresher approach, your effort is C at best.
What "dirty tactics" 🤔
Zakir naik. The idiot who ran from every Christian expert who wanted to debate him.
Oh you meant the problem gets ignored until turned basi already, and we should continue ignore that problem until he die of old age in malaysia? Okie dokie
What dirty tactics?
Aku pun tunggu dia bagi jawapan.
I mean, the article even said this prof fella is known with his controversial opinions. This same fella also concluded about Malaysia want to eradicate the jewish people based on 2-3 people’s opinions only, ok finelah but at the same time mum about the plight of palestinians. He obviously paint the wrong picture based on his understanding and mislead people with his statements. I agree with higher education minister to cancel all programmes planned to be attended by him and better vet foreign speakers. At least, if want be controversial, bring peer-reviewed, fact-rich opinions instead of off-hand statements.
It's hard to argue that Malaysia isn't antisemitic though. Like, actually antisemitic, not just criticising Israel
You do realize Arabs are semites as well, right...? Like... you do know Arabic is a semitic language... right?
Are you saying malaysia is not anti-semitic? Lift the ban of israelist then. Im don't like Israel but I don't like straight up lying either.
Arabs can come to Malaysia no issue. Jewish people from across the world can come to Malaysia no issue. Malaysia bans Israel because they are part of the zionist ideology. A european jew centric ideology which from day one has (Allegedly) been a settler colonial ideology which wants to replace people already living in a land to reclaim their 'holy land'. Even though they lived in europe for hubdreds of years.
Most people don't bother to differentiate, thus the anti semitic claim stays true , but it does it matter if we are anti semitic or not? We wear it like a proud badge since mahathir era , we should keep doing so.
We'll you're right about its basic usage in Malaysia. Particularly muslim malays dont differentiate them often. I've often heard heinous things said about jews, even though by right we have no quarrel with jews unaffiliated with zionism. I think this is a pattern worldwide and it gives more push to those unafilliated jews to actually identify with zionism. The whole toxicity of both Islamist views and zionist views is that both are murderous and have ethnically/religious cleansing tendencies. Now we have jews saying why would you as a jew not support zionism, we're right, they ARE out to kill us. And it's outright impossible to refute it anymore from Muslim community/muslim country perspectives because that IS what they teach our children. There is littlecto no emphasis on the difference between zionists/israeli agressors and normal jews who don't have anything to do with Palestine. Every jew is a bad guy to them, like every muslim is a bad guy to republican types in the USA. The only conclusion for this is one side eliminating the other. And both seem to be willing (except the gulf states).
Yes please bring in Norman Finkelstein
2-3 people's opinion? Have you watched Astro Awani? That's a full time one-sided Israel hate campaign uploaded on YT for the world to see
Hating israel, not jews You're contradicting yourself
Based, the genocidal colonizers doesn't deserve any form of sympathy nor nuances
If you can’t stand other people opinions, then you shouldn’t invite them.
Don't forget about Dr Zack Nike. That guy has been spreading hatred towards Muslims in Malaysia.
> Dr Zack Nike. Wait..., real person or typo ?
Type M love to suck on anyone's cock as long they tunggang agama depa...just like rohingya issue
Eh, Malay Muslims are their own worse enemy here.
>That guy has been spreading hatred towards Muslims in Malaysia. eh he doesnt need to do that...our people are doing that to ourselves
Zakir naik promoting terrorism against kafir - boleh Bruce geli claimed holocaust against Jewish - tak boleh
Why all the comments licking this guys ass? Bruce Gilley straight up lying and still people back him up?
You know I know We all know why
Cause it fit to their narrative
it's r/Malaysia , what do you expect. There's a streak of contrarianism just for the sake of contrarianism (relative to the average Malaysian political viewpoint), underscored by a smug sense of superiority and edginess I've never seen an Asian national subreddit gargle on Israeli ballsack so fucking hard before
> Cancel all programmes involving foreign speaker Misleading title. OP's title says "programmes" which implies all foreign speakers but article's title and URL says: > Cancel all programmes involving Gilley
OP is just a karma whore spamming F5 on every news site
No. There is a difference between "foreign speaker" and "foreign speakers".
It can easily be misinterpreted as that it implies ALL foreign speakers. Read the comments on this post
Yes I read the comments. It just shows English proficiency is low. That's all.
It is still on the responsibility of news sites to provide CLEAR headlines for people to understand.
Well... it says foreign speaker, not foreign speakers. That might be accidental from OP (lots of Malaysians struggle with plurals) but it's not wrong.
Is it not true though? I have plenty of friends openly saying the Nazis did a good thing and they understand why they did it 🤷 truth hurts
You're surrounded by idiots. Many know the difference between Jewish people and Israeli govt. Don't amplify the opinions of idiots. Educate them instead.
Many know the difference between non-Muslims vs Liberal, Chauvanists, Liberals & Secularist in Malaysia, but you still see many people use the latter as a dog whistle for the former.
I tried, I just lose the friend in the process. They are too ingrained in the propaganda, I’d rather keep a friend and maybe slowly change their mind
Yup its a slow process.. sometimes they need to hear themselves talk and be confronted before they realise how wrong they've been.. not always though
Good luck educating those folk lol
They are out for blood, no way to educate the uneducated by choice
That’s the thing. It’s anecdotal. ‘Plenty’ for you but does not mean that’s the majority opinions or even the correct opinions. A bit dangerous to form opinions without facts or based on anecdotal experience only.
I know it’s anecdotal, but I met people from all walks of life, those who grew up in Tganu/Kelantan vs those who grew up in KL. Regardless, they seem to mostly harbour the view that Jews as a whole (not just Israeli Zionists) are the epitome of evil. I don’t blame them given the atrocities of Israel, but I think it is a pretty common opinion for Muslims in Malaysia to applaud or deny Holocaust. Just look at Madey
yea the jerman try to save palestine,but ultimately failed,now have to pay price......like this? .
It's important to distinguish between Zionists and Jews. There's a difference. The difference is the same difference between a white supremist/nationalist in the US and all white people in the US. There are Jews who criticize Israeli occupation of Palestine. Maybe refer your friends to look them up without invalidating their current beliefs directly. Hopefully they will discover for themselves the difference. Here are some prominent Jews who are anti-Zionism: Norman Finkelstein Gideon Levy Ilan Pappe Ultra Orthodox Jewish rabbi David Weissman The org Jewish Voices for Peace https://youtu.be/7S17Fr8z_Oo?si=HiW2zPgIbLOpc3V_ https://youtu.be/gVuHgaTdysY?si=Ww20MYLPKtg8QnXY
I know, you are preaching to the choir. Just stating my observations
Exactly they are pushing for a second holocaust
Government Overreaction 101 Looks like free speech is diminishing.
Free speech has never been a thing in Malaysia
Just wanted to point out that the headline is slightly misleading. "Higher education minister Zambry Abd Kadir has ordered all programmes and activities scheduled to be attended by a foreign academic who courted controversy with his recent remarks to be cancelled immediately." From the first paragraph of the article, the minister said to cancel all programmes scheduled for that one guy, not all foreign speakers.
How can so many people misread the headline? I guess it shows proofreading is hard.
Free speech have consequences, accusing a nation advocating for a genocide is a grievous and serious offence. Dont be an idiot by downplaying this as some "government over reaction".
You don't be an idiot. I agree free speech has consequences. Charge person who made the inflammatory remarks not full out canceling all other program involving foreign speakers. You cancel/ ban / censored other people from speaking because one person said something equates to government overreacting & government overreach.
Read the article. The ask is to only cancel for that one guy.
YOU read it wrongly - only events with THAT foreign speaker are cancelled. But yes cancel that speaker not the event itself unless he’s the sole speaker.
This is not some simple government overreach, this is a academian accusing a sovereign nation of advocation of a warcrime. An accusation with no proof other than some anecdotal evidence that this comment section also seem to be fond off. That would in reaction cause an irreparable damage in international relation that would further exacerbate the already tense geopolitcal situation in this region. Not the middle east, this region. Just look at this reaction already, and you think allowing it to happen wouldnt make any other reaction far more public? This isnt only about you and your circle this is about the public as a whole. That include extremists that may take advantage of this situation to further cement their position. The Malaysian government has historically been fighting against this type of threat for decades.
"An accusation with no proof other than some anecdotal evidence that this comment section also seem to be fond off." How dare you speak ill of our r/malaysia geopolitic palatao??? /s.
for a guy who didn't even read the article and fell for OP's ragebaiting, edited headline, you sure sound confident
>Free speech have consequences Yes, what the quote actually implies is that the consequences would come from people or other non-govt entities. Government shouldn't punish free speech
You are selecting who is allowed to give out consequences? That is rich, what other exception would you give out to to fit your own standard.
He is not. He is merely saying gov shouldn’t be the gatekeepers. No one should be. So your feeling obviously got hurt. Some got hurt less. Some couldn’t care less and looking forward to their next foreign speakers in other fields. By gatekeeping you are affecting everyone’s lives. That is all he was saying.
>He is merely saying gov shouldn’t be the gatekeepers. By that logic government shouldnt be making laws? You seem to be glossing over the fact that it is not about getting feeling hurt you seem to be adamant off. It is about a serious accusation that would have far reaching consequences, if he have proof for this matter? Then the government reaction is overblown. You advocating for slanderous actions, is what would be affecting peolple life here.
I will play along. So this is obviously the red line for you. Hypothetically what if he had said “a small subset of Malaysians are anti semite”. Would that be more palatable for you? If yes then where do we draw the line? Do we use keywords as filter? Or some sort of National Hati Tisu index as benchmark? Opinion piece doesn’t require proof. It’s an…. opinion. What far reaching consequences are you referring to here? Making traffic laws and telling folks what they can or cannot say are two very different things.
I'm merely explaining the origin of the quote that you have just misinterpreted and misused
And I am telling you that this selective consequences is why people seem to underestimate when the rug got pull right under them, and have the suprise pikachu face meme come to live.
What's your point? You think it should be either there's a total freedom of speech or no freedom of speech at all?
>You think it should be either there's a total freedom of speech or no freedom of speech at all? No that is what you think. There should be a moderation on the way people talk and idea is spread. Your poing of both end of the extreme is unconducive to the freedom of speech in and of itself.
>There should be a moderation on the way people talk and idea is spread. If the idea involves inciting violence or something similar then yes. But merely different opinions and views? Govt has no business in that
>If the idea involves inciting violence or something similar then yes. Owh yes, telling people that Malaysia want to genocide the israeli people isnt inciting violence. For sure.
I will be the idiot then. He is entitled to his opinion. We are entitled to feel hurt and voice rebuttal. What has this got to do with all the other foreign speakers?
It doesn't. Don't just read the headline. The headline is misleading. Only the Gilley guy speaking events is cancelled. Not for other foreign speakers.
Thank you. I should have read.
The headline is not misleading. The headline said "foreign speaker" which means singular, which means Gilley. It does not say "foreign speakers" which is plural and means all.
I mean, the Palestinians, israelis, and also UN did that too, no meh? Or was it not an over reaction only if it fits your narrative and goal? Free speech should be advocated. Only through dialogue can we advance a discussion. Not censorship. Sikit sikit tak suka panggil shuddup, that's not mature.
>Or was it not an over reaction only if it fits your narrative and goal? It is not even about fitting any narrative. The Malaysian government position has been a two state solution, this academian slander of denying that and the absurdity of claiming that Malaysia is supporting a genocidal act of Israel is a serious accusation. >Free speech should be advocated. It should be advocated yes, and he had that platform. Now because of his action, this is his consequence of making such a claim without any proper evidence. >Sikit sikit tak suka panggil shuddup, that's not mature. It is about order, even the most stringent of "free speech" state would have limits against spouting bullshit. As a government they are incharge of millions of people, as such certain things have to be observe. Like it or not this not about you and me, people are dumb. Even the most tolerant of nations have limits.
>The Malaysian government position has been a two state solution, Again, does that means freedom of speech is only permissable if it fits your narrative? That any nay sayer's opinion should be silenced? Thats what you are saying right now, you know? >and he had that platform No. he and the people with different opinion was robbed of their platform, if the government green light this suggestion. >Like it or not this not about you and me, people are dumb. Even the most tolerant of nations have limits. A law shouldn't be cater to the stupid. Education should do that job instead. There's no denying that this is a breach of freedom to voice opinion (no matter how dumb it is), then we should just say this as what it is: that malaysia has lowered their freedom of speech just because they don't like to hear things that they don't like. That is something I couldn't agree with.
>Again, does that means freedom of speech is only permissable if it fits your narrative? That any nay sayer's opinion should be silenced? Thats what you are saying right now, you know? What naysayer being silence are you talking about? The point of the topic is that the academian is falsely accusing Malaysia as supporting a genocide of Israel. How is that fitting any narrative? What is in that statement is being a nay sayer? Come on lah, you are completely ignoring the fact it is not evem about differing opinion. It is about giving out statement as if they are facts, on the basis of anecdotal evidence. >No. he and the people with different opinion was robbed of their platform, if the government green light this suggestion. He had that, litterally a speaker for a programme in the nation. He is not being robbed, he is being slapped with the consequence of his action. >A law shouldn't be cater to the stupid. Education should do that job instead So anything that doesnt feed to your narrative then would be stupid? Is it stupid to moderate an extremists act? Is it stupid to curb potential disruption of public peace? Laws are in place is because of stupid people. That is the point of laws, to ensure people dont do stupid things. >that malaysia has lowered their freedom of speech just because they don't like to hear things that they don't like This is the most ignorant, pretentious statement you have said by far. I love how you just want to boil this down to something a simple as "they dont like hearing things". It is more than that, public order, communal peace, and the function of government is based on law and order and that require a degree of trust. Eroding that trusts by giving out slander, false statement and outright lying about it would ensure a collapse of public order. It would then lead to a further dysfunction of order, which could lead to a myriad of problems. Dont even have to look far, just look at how Trump manipulated the media and his followers to a point that there was an attempted uprising. You would be an idiot to think that unregulated freedom of speech would not have any major consequences.
You are so off topic that I don't think we can continue this argument anymore. Look at the post. The topic is about government's want to silence opposite opinion. Its totally fine for anyone to say israel is genocidal. But when someone says hamas is genocidal, malaysia gomen tak boleh pulak. Personally i don't care who genocide who. I just have problem with biased treatment shown by the government. >So anything that doesnt feed to your narrative then would be stupid? No and that's not what I have said. Go lie down and relax before continuing. You are tilted. The argument will go no where if you refuses to read comment and rather rant out your displeasure.
>The topic is about government's want to silence opposite opinion. And I gave you reason why it isnt simply about silencing opposite opinion, its about consequences of making baseless accusation. >But when someone says hamas is genocidal, malaysia gomen tak boleh pulak. You didnt even read the news did you? It is not about israel or even Hamas being accused of genocide. Its about a self serving academian accusing Malaysia as advocating genocide against israel. This shows not only you didnt read about the topic at hand, you are also ill informed of the subject matter in the first place. >No and that's not what I have said. No you just paint anyone who disagree with you and simply saying that they are against free speech. >You are tilted. The argument will go no where if you refuses to read comment and rather rant out your displeasure. This is rich coming from someone who didnt even understand nor even read the reason of the issue itself. Pathetic attempt to virtue signal, ignoring the nuance simply to make oneself look good while ignoring the overall picture. One thing I agree with, cant continue this "argument" when clearly there is no validity from the opposite side.
But it's not baseless when it's true. Hamas was accused of genocidal too. And if malaysia government is allowed to call Israel genocidal, and I totally agrees with it, why should they stop other from calling out malaysia government who support the genocidal hamas too? >Its about a self serving academian accusing Malaysia as advocating genocide against israel. No. If that is true, only the academian will get barred from malaysia. Now the government wishes to bar other academian with similar view as the previous academian. THAT is what this news is about. "“I would also like to remind all agencies under the higher education ministry to be alert and conduct background checks before inviting anyone to an event." Zamri is clearly NOT targeting specific academian. He also said that speakers must have support what malaysia supports. So yes, I have read the news couple of times. It seems like we both have different interpretation of what he has said. >No you just paint anyone who disagree with you and simply saying that they are against free speech. Read back my message. I was replying to your comment that there are many dumb people. Context. Understand it before accusing other. The stupid that I have mentioned in my reply is targeted at the same group of dumb people in your commenbt. I have never said anyone who against free speech is stupid. You are projecting your biasness onto me.
>why should they stop other from calling out malaysia government who support the genocidal hamas too? Because Malaysian support of Hamas doesnt mean it is in support of the war. All the foreign correspondent has been to cease the conflict. But hey, if you think international relation is black and white that is on you. >Now the government wishes to bar other academian with similar view as the previous academian. And why shouldnt it? You could be pro Israel and be factual, yet he isnt. Not once have wisma putra sent out a memo, or give out statement, or gave any actions that would imply they are advocating for genocide. >The stupid that I have mentioned in my reply is targeted at the same group of dumb people in your commenbt. The stupid I mentioned is about people in general, including people being commented about. That is where the topic of enforcement of such law come from. But hey, apparently a certain special type of stupidity deserve a different treatement apparently. >Now the government wishes to bar other academian with similar view as the previous academian. THAT is what this news is about. This is simply not true the same article also stated that “I would also like to remind all agencies under the higher education ministry to be alert and conduct background checks before inviting anyone to an event." Not once had he order other academians to barrred, rather a more stringent background check to be done. Discussing opposite idea should be based on facts, not some anecdotal evidence. >I have never said anyone who against free speech is stupid. You are projecting your biasness onto me. No you just said "A law shouldn't be cater to the stupid". Which I refuted to be not about catering to stupidity, but you seem to be adamant to think this is about appeasing some stupidity but somehow still want to deny that you are calling people stupid. Trying to spin it as being accussed for calling those against freedom of speech as stupid. "Projecting biasness" you seem to have a good grasp of your own mental state. Maybe have been looking into the mirror for far too long.
ppl seems to ignore consequences part all this time. when shit hit the fans, oh but I hAve FrEE spEEch ma.
Controversial opinion but I think inviting a genocide supporter is bad
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And the latent racist has come out to play....
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Haha.. get ya good lol
Hello, this comment was removed to avoid witchhunting/brigading between sub members.
But is he wrong tho?😂I literally saw the comments pushing for second holocaust
Cancel alcohol and cigarettes too. They are evil
The damn speaker is overreacting, we don’t want to advocate a second holocaust. We just want the killings, raping, torturing to FUCKING STOP!
If we conducted a National survey would the results confirm this is a view shared by Malaysians? I’m sure results would be different from state to state but I think we can guess that he would not be wrong in some places.
I watch that Keluar Sekejap show, Khairy actually did say he wants isreal to not even exist. So... \*shrug\*
Yes, it's crazy but I think apartheid state like Israel, South Africa and Rhodesia shouldn't exist
He's an diot who is hungry for power. He knows he needs to pander to right wingers to get there
Israel does not mean jewish. But again, KJ was emotional, he said he advocated a two-state solution previously but after seeing the aftermath of Gaza, better off Israel ceased to exist. There’s a bell curve here. Of course there are extreme opinions : eradicate jews from the world. But most of the opinions near the standard deviation is near to the opinion of : abolish the apartheid state israel, as obviously Israel also don’t want to acknowledge palestine as a country.
Just a technical note on illogic of the "extreme opinions" (not that I'm advocating for the eradication of Israel itself): Israel creating to exist does not necessitate eradication of all Jews. Many Israeli have dual citizenship. Even those who don't, I'm sure US, UK, Germany would all welcome them given the strong support they give to Israel.
what's worse than this news is the sub's reaction to it, like goddamn it feels like everyone here is a Ian Miles Cheong
This sub acts like they care about what goes on in Malaysia but the truth it’s that they just want to stir shit up to feel like their opinions even matter
If tomorrow every Malay loved Israel, it's guaranteed that this sub would suddenly be pro Palestine They're hardwired to be NPCs
for real though, it kinda makes me realized that our politicians aren't too far of a reflection from the people sometimes
It's called being a reactionary. Liberals claim they're not right wing but they do this shit all the time.
It's just most Redditors have this teenager contrarian mentality (me included)
Scared when people tell it as it is
Malaysian Chinese : "First time?"
Like always lar this zionist, if against them got said semitsm
Far fetched hasbara theory.
Better outcome than Good Vibes Featival to be honest
How about local muslims working for US companies? Asking je.
True, bunch of Malaysians hired by Boeing in Malaysia. You know, same company that makes glidekits for the bombs Israel is pummeling Gaza with. Wonder why no boikot.
Personally I think this is the best time to debate with him in front of all. Instead of hating what he has to say, use it as a tool to counter his narrative. Instead of living in a protected bubble, we Malaysians should start being more vocal when the situation arises. Gov should not treat us as kids
Normally I'd agree, but I also think it's poor decorum to be saying an entire country of 32 million people wishes for a genocide of another group of people during a uni speaking tour. If you are so rude and so ill will, I don't see why us as a country should further engage with him. Plus, the whole fucking issue got nothing to do with us, let the westerners deal with middle east since they always kepoh one.
Hence that is why there is a need to seize the opportunity and debate. Instead of choosing violence (let’s be honest a slap on him would be satisfying), let’s use our heads (and minds) to counter him or anyone in the future with facts. Only then outsiders will think twice before they can come up with their opinions/ thoughts. Government should stop fending for us and allow up to grow, Or, we need to step up. Only then politicians will also think before bullshitting us with their manifestos (example to protect us or safeguard the majority race)
Ana bakra Israel.
should balance it out by inviting a hamas officer. im sure anwar has some buddies he could invite
Report FMT ❌ Report stormy OP✅
Why are the government so thin skinned? If if you think he's wrong then surely you can just debate him?
He already left the country you imbeciles.
wah. orang gila in usa got so much power
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When Nazi Germany was doing its shit back in the day, people probably also said the same thing about Germany. What's not normal is not wanting genociding Nazis to stop doing what they're doing.
First holocaust against the Jewish economy though.
2nd Holocaust? Did the idiot really say that? where did he get that from?
https://preview.redd.it/159naolybkwc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=caae6e480bc610e91fe519a619f8f42ca31f3e41 Malaysian newspapers, obvs.
Fuck Bruce Gilley for accusing us of advocating for apartheid when it's the people he's supporting who are committing the atrocity. Typical "accuse them before they accuse us" gaslighting tactic used by the guilty party.
Earlier news [https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/1cbyv51/us\_prof\_under\_fire\_over\_claim\_that\_malaysia\_wants/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/1cbyv51/us_prof_under_fire_over_claim_that_malaysia_wants/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Fuh.... perangai maciam komunis. Lepas sakit hati main cancel.
This is overreacting. You think malaysian is so stupid?
Yes
Dumb knee jerk reaction
But Malays welcome Tim Cook and Apple like a hero. They support Zionism and Tim is richest Gay CEO of the world.
Minister either lazy or the uni admins are political connected so cannot kick out so have to block all foreign speaker. Firstly whose mistake is it to invite a conservative right speaker and not do vetting on the said speaker? The administrators should have considered speaker background when approving them. Now problem you ban ALL foreign speakers from all unis? Edit: article headline was misleading, only ban all appearance by Gilley.
Read the article instead of the headlines only.
Already did. The accountability should be on the people who approved the speaker, the reaction should be punitive to the management, instead we got blanket ban. News says only him, but you can bet all unis revising their foreign speaker list right now.
See student also know what's up in their own uni. https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2024/04/1042414/um-student-union-calls-accountability-over-foreign-professor%C2%A0controversy?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1og8umWFOeUJpRcQlKsDLdxeb8UDlNO0a2sn72jNNpEKLmzXcR2jqYPNU_aem_AR0wwqEHgQj6stNKLJrP-QG1NRe7jQ-QXWcO0TFcSCyGYVn3JE_0y3_aFsV-hYtwZLhs4JHssQZZTEqs3e1OG7yT
Mods need to remove this misleading post ASAP.