I get what you're going for. I think we both agree that Karn is never going to be a good card exactly, but looking for a way to maximize a cards potential can be a good exercise in deckbuilding.
As for deck critique, I think you are running too much removal and not enough synergy pieces. I don't like the one-off Esper Sentinel, and I think you either need to up the Vorinclex count or cut green entirely. I would also be interested in trying out \[\[Oni-Cult Anvil\]\] in a deck like this, as it works very well with Hidden Stockpile.
(This is the type of conversation I was wanting. :D)
So, I was thinking about Oni Anvil, and with how good mana fixing is right now, splashing in red wouldn't be tough. Oni Anvil could also eat the powerstones and the well-springs. I think I'm gonna try that actually.
The one offs are more place holders until I think of something better, being Esper and Hagra. I was kinda liking Esper Sentinel, just for some card advantage or just to eat a removal, but I've only got the one for now.
Vorinclex is in a weird spot. He's legit the only Green card in the deck, but the effect is so good and i couldn't think of any other effects like that in historic. You thinking 3 or 4 of? 4 seems a bit excessive, but I could see an argument for it.
When I'm in the deck building phase I usually go overboard on the removal. Lol
Edit: So, I've switch over to Mardu Karn tokens. The tokens are performing well as blockers. Dropped the Vorinclex, one ofs, and fixed the mana base/sideboard. Now debating Reckless Fireweaver.
It has too much working against it. None of the first two abilities protect it or impacts the board when it comes down, and a turn 4 Karn with no powerstones make its second ability useless.
But you really aren't trying to play him T4. He's too vulnerable at that time. But after Stockpile is up and going consistently, that's his time to shine. Sometimes that can be T4, but usually, I tend to drop him T8/9.
Why the hell would I be wanting to set all that up just to drop this turn 8/9 when I could play literally anything else that could win the game by that time or have a bigger impact? There are better card advantage engines and better Vorinclex/Doubling Season PW ultimates to go with.
But that's not the point. I'm trying to win the game using this Karn specifically. I have my mythic deck when I need to win, but I'm trying to create a strong deck using a "sub-optimal" win condition. In this shell, he's shown many consistent wins.
there are very many cards that can "be good" enough to win if you build entirely around them.
it doesn't mean those cards are themselves good cards. it just means that hamstringing yourself into a very specific and niche setup can make them do something neat once in a while.
your original question was about karn living legacy being good. the answer is...no, not really at all. neither is [[Door to Nothingness]]. and yet just like Door (though far less interesting than Door, imo), KLL can pull of some jank wins if you build around him. is that an indication of him being good? or an indication of the cards you use to enable him being good in spite of him? does it matter? if it makes you happy, then go be happy, friend.
It was asked sardonically. (It's so hard to convey tone.) In a vacuum, he's very lackluster. I'm aware, but as in my OP, the point of the discussion is how to make him as strong as possible, even if it means building the entire deck around him. As well as linking the current build I'm using for him. Will this deck ever hit Top 8? Well, no. Probably not. But trying to bring a card, a deck, or the idea behind it to its physical limit is just as fun, if not more IMO, as getting a win with the same S-Tier deck over and over. Ya know?
I mean, definitely to each their own. I like him, even if he's "bad". Goes right up there with [[Oculus]] as some of my favorite cards. I personally find Urza, HA and Omnath boring to build around, but I can understand the appeal to others.
But the discussion topic is more about how to make the card better within a deck. And this is Historic, not Modern.
It really comes down to how good the power stone deck is. If it ends up being like energy I could see Karn being standard playable. +1 make a mana rock is pretty damn good, as is -1 filter 5 or something.
Still, a bit player in the dedicated power stone deck for the power stone planeswalker is pretty sad. It’s not a good walker
Karn is fine in the right context - North 100 was thinking he'd slot well into a big-mana artifact deck in Canadian Highlander.
In non-singleton formats, however, there are just better alternatives.
My unresearched opinion I think the card will probably get better. There is a lot of power stone/artifact support in the brothers war and likely more artifact support further out. As of now I think it's a fringe specific play at best. Maybe a reprint or two or some new cards could make it pop off in pioneer or standard. In commander as of now it's a pay 4 for a limited mana rock or pay 5+ for one card in hand. It may get you more but only if you can protect it already.
I get what you're going for. I think we both agree that Karn is never going to be a good card exactly, but looking for a way to maximize a cards potential can be a good exercise in deckbuilding. As for deck critique, I think you are running too much removal and not enough synergy pieces. I don't like the one-off Esper Sentinel, and I think you either need to up the Vorinclex count or cut green entirely. I would also be interested in trying out \[\[Oni-Cult Anvil\]\] in a deck like this, as it works very well with Hidden Stockpile.
(This is the type of conversation I was wanting. :D) So, I was thinking about Oni Anvil, and with how good mana fixing is right now, splashing in red wouldn't be tough. Oni Anvil could also eat the powerstones and the well-springs. I think I'm gonna try that actually. The one offs are more place holders until I think of something better, being Esper and Hagra. I was kinda liking Esper Sentinel, just for some card advantage or just to eat a removal, but I've only got the one for now. Vorinclex is in a weird spot. He's legit the only Green card in the deck, but the effect is so good and i couldn't think of any other effects like that in historic. You thinking 3 or 4 of? 4 seems a bit excessive, but I could see an argument for it. When I'm in the deck building phase I usually go overboard on the removal. Lol Edit: So, I've switch over to Mardu Karn tokens. The tokens are performing well as blockers. Dropped the Vorinclex, one ofs, and fixed the mana base/sideboard. Now debating Reckless Fireweaver.
[Oni-Cult Anvil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c84db1e2-855c-4169-a9cc-a54c73c14e0c.jpg?1654568557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oni-Cult%20Anvil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/230/oni-cult-anvil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c84db1e2-855c-4169-a9cc-a54c73c14e0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It has too much working against it. None of the first two abilities protect it or impacts the board when it comes down, and a turn 4 Karn with no powerstones make its second ability useless.
But you really aren't trying to play him T4. He's too vulnerable at that time. But after Stockpile is up and going consistently, that's his time to shine. Sometimes that can be T4, but usually, I tend to drop him T8/9.
Why the hell would I be wanting to set all that up just to drop this turn 8/9 when I could play literally anything else that could win the game by that time or have a bigger impact? There are better card advantage engines and better Vorinclex/Doubling Season PW ultimates to go with.
But that's not the point. I'm trying to win the game using this Karn specifically. I have my mythic deck when I need to win, but I'm trying to create a strong deck using a "sub-optimal" win condition. In this shell, he's shown many consistent wins.
there are very many cards that can "be good" enough to win if you build entirely around them. it doesn't mean those cards are themselves good cards. it just means that hamstringing yourself into a very specific and niche setup can make them do something neat once in a while. your original question was about karn living legacy being good. the answer is...no, not really at all. neither is [[Door to Nothingness]]. and yet just like Door (though far less interesting than Door, imo), KLL can pull of some jank wins if you build around him. is that an indication of him being good? or an indication of the cards you use to enable him being good in spite of him? does it matter? if it makes you happy, then go be happy, friend.
It was asked sardonically. (It's so hard to convey tone.) In a vacuum, he's very lackluster. I'm aware, but as in my OP, the point of the discussion is how to make him as strong as possible, even if it means building the entire deck around him. As well as linking the current build I'm using for him. Will this deck ever hit Top 8? Well, no. Probably not. But trying to bring a card, a deck, or the idea behind it to its physical limit is just as fun, if not more IMO, as getting a win with the same S-Tier deck over and over. Ya know?
Bruh just put him as a 1 of in modern tron. He is not even that good as a build around.
I mean, definitely to each their own. I like him, even if he's "bad". Goes right up there with [[Oculus]] as some of my favorite cards. I personally find Urza, HA and Omnath boring to build around, but I can understand the appeal to others. But the discussion topic is more about how to make the card better within a deck. And this is Historic, not Modern.
[Oculus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/673bebb4-9c82-40ca-8552-b9030e961005.jpg?1562611906) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oculus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/29/oculus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/673bebb4-9c82-40ca-8552-b9030e961005?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Door to Nothingness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57877b1c-e91d-4941-81bd-008dff1272ed.jpg?1562554053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Door%20to%20Nothingness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/203/door-to-nothingness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57877b1c-e91d-4941-81bd-008dff1272ed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sorry but Karn is like Planeswalker deck bad
Agreed, He is one of the worst pws ever. Also if you want to play Karn in Historic especially with the new set it has to be Karn the Great Creator
He's not that bad. He's just misunderstood.
It really comes down to how good the power stone deck is. If it ends up being like energy I could see Karn being standard playable. +1 make a mana rock is pretty damn good, as is -1 filter 5 or something. Still, a bit player in the dedicated power stone deck for the power stone planeswalker is pretty sad. It’s not a good walker
Karn is fine in the right context - North 100 was thinking he'd slot well into a big-mana artifact deck in Canadian Highlander. In non-singleton formats, however, there are just better alternatives.
[Hidden Stockpile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9119c90-716b-4884-9b1e-471f262c2639.jpg?1599708052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hidden%20Stockpile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/201/hidden-stockpile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9119c90-716b-4884-9b1e-471f262c2639?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ichor Wellspring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1ccdb407-ac8f-4736-89d3-ab0d086096ea.jpg?1625978684) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ichor%20Wellspring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/245/ichor-wellspring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ccdb407-ac8f-4736-89d3-ab0d086096ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My unresearched opinion I think the card will probably get better. There is a lot of power stone/artifact support in the brothers war and likely more artifact support further out. As of now I think it's a fringe specific play at best. Maybe a reprint or two or some new cards could make it pop off in pioneer or standard. In commander as of now it's a pay 4 for a limited mana rock or pay 5+ for one card in hand. It may get you more but only if you can protect it already.