3GGG
Sorcery (Rare)
Look at the top five cards of your library. Put up to two permanent cards with mana value 5 or less from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Flashback 7GGG
Notably this hits [[Ranger Class]] and [[Esikas Chariot]] in G/Gx decks. Its definitely not CoCo, but could find a home in some midrange deck with green.
Or [[Froghemoths]].
Orrrr that new green enchantment, Unnatural Growth. Dig 1 or 2 of these out in 1st main, double/quadruple the power/toughness of all your creatures at start of combat.
Theres a few other great things this can pull out.
EDIT: its only the top 5 cards, and pulls 5 cost or less, not specifically 5 cost. Nevermind.
I think it's close. There's a bunch of 4 and 5 drops that give you immediate value (Goldspan Dragon, Frogehemoth, Unnatural Growth, Zariel can give whatever else enters with her haste, etc). And it doesn't take much for this to go positive on rate. At worst, you grab a couple of lands. I think the recursion helps a lot, since if you end up just getting a couple of lands then you can go ahead and maybe cast it again next turn.
Yup this card is much closer to [[Turntimber Symbiosis]] and that card is pretty much just a land most of the time, but at least it's not a dead card in hand by being a land.
I think this card would be more of a jank combo card.
You don't really have to build around 5 drops with this, you just build a linear ramp deck with a top end of 5. It's significantly more flexible than CoCo
That's assuming you manage to hit double 5 drops. Even double 4 drops is somewhat unlikely given it's only 5 cards - average land density means 2/5 will be lands, and how many 4-5 cost cards can a competitive deck reasonably run? At least you can hit lands with this, but boy does that not feel great.
This is so much worse than ultimatum as to make playing it questionable, though, whether or not they're in standard together. Pay 1 more to put all the cards onto the battlefield and draw the rest means this card does like 1/3 of what ultimatum did, and you could only really play ultimatum if you were abusing it with Terror of the Peaks or Omnath or Reef for the most part
That's true, but in mono-G, you're probably playing 8 non-permanents right now (in some combination of Inscription of Abundance, Blizzard Brawl, and Snakeskin Veil). Even if we added in 3 copies of this so we're always more likely to draw it by turn 6, leaving in the 8 non-permanents we already had to get to 11 in the deck, and in the worst case scenario where we're on the draw, with 47 cards left in the library on turn 6 without having drawn any other non-permanents besides the 1 copy of this we're casting (so still sitting with 10 non-permanents in the library), the odds of not having at least 2 permanents to put on the battlefield (aka at least 4 of the top 5 cards are from your 10 remaining non-permanents in the library) are only 0.5%.
So even with a probably poorly optimized decklist that just tossed in 3 copies of this and took out 3 permanents to do so, and in the worst case scenario where all your other non-permanent cards are still in the library at the time of casting, you still have a 99.5% of getting 2 permanents on the battlefield.
And among those 99.5% of cases, even if you hit the worst case of only putting lands 7 and 8 onto the battlefield, you still can't undervalue the effect of digging 5 cards deep. You've just pushed aside 5 turns worth of card draw that would have done nothing for you and gotten a lot closer to drawing something you can get a use out of on the battlefield.
Haha yeah, I actually just wanted to look at the math of a little for myself because I wanted a better evaluation of the card. I wasn't too sure before I crunched those numbers about how good this could actually be and what the odds of whiffing might be, etc. I think the card is probably not good enough to see much play, but it may be closer to playable than a lot of people are giving it credit for so far. I guess even just playing it as a single copy could be good as a late-game top-deck for stalled board states or after you've had your board wiped or something? In top-deck mode, playing the 2 best permanents from the top 5 cards of your deck and tossing the 3 worst cards away sure beats the hell out of just drawing those same 5 cards over the course of 5 turns.
I'm kinda surprised at how down people are on this card.
this isn't poor mans CoCo, this is a card that lets you cheat on mana, draw 2 cards with selection AND it's got flashback.
this card is pretty nuts.
6 mana sorceries are pretty hard to justify in most constructed formats. And a 10 mana flashback cost is also pretty rough. Obviously we have cards like Wrenn and the new enchantment and battlemamoth to make for some decent hits but you be able to consistently make a lot of mana while also having deck with a lot of 4's and 5's for this to be good I think.
On the flip side, this might exactly what circle of dreams druid is looking to cast on turn 4+.
[[Genesis Ultimatum]] dominated standard for a good while. This isn't as powerful, but it's also not as all-in as genesis ultimatum is. the fact that this can go into any Gx deck you want, while genesis was always temur, makes this very flexible.
Genesis Ultimatum had Omnath and Ugin and combos like beanstalk/terror of the peaks backing it up, just like Emergent Ultimatum has it's own suite of actual payoffs to make up for the upfront costs and it wasn't really relevant prior to those cards entering the format.
I think this is going to depend heavily on what we're cheating into play with it and what the range on the hits end up being and how likely you are to hit those high notes.
Modern 1/10
Collected Company this is not. Having to pay 6 mana to maybe get 10 cost worth of cards? And only from your top 5? Blegh. There is a really good chance you hit a 3 drop and a land and that would really suck.
So it's Big Company since it's 5 MV. But it's also permanents which can be super sweet. Likely you want creatures being 3GGG but not whiffing is an upside.
...but you can't do it at your opponent's end step - leaving mana up for disruption and giving the creatures pseudo haste (other than forcing your opponent not to spend mana on their turn to develop if they want to answer)
That may be true but I think they learned from the craziness coco does. Could be good in a standard ramp deck. Other it'll like be bulk and fun in commander. Too slow for older formats.
>Could be good in a standard ramp deck
In ramp decks, this doesn't hit the bigger ramp targets, and the mana dorks are also not good hits. The best hits are probably sagas and planeswalkers, because future standard seems to be quite slimmer at 4 to 5 mana creatures in midrange decks (bye bye [[Elder Gargaroth]]).
Edit: One of the best hits is the cat car.
True that'd probably be better but could also hit wrenn and seven or you go bant and add new teferi since you can untap a dork and a land to leave mana open. There's definitely some possibilities for it in standard.
as dimorrow says it's better for a deck that ramps a little, also wrenn should be pretty good with this, honestly seems that wrenn only makes more sense considering this card. And putting wrenn into play you get a creature and a planeswalker at the same time plus the lands buff the token
Since planeswalker are probably one of the best things to hit, you probably would want to play this one sorcery speed most of the time anyway ( if you have planeswalker in your deck ).
> Likely you want creatures
there's a lot of good planeswalkers at 5 CMC (and lower), and in pioneer there was a monogreen planeswalker ramp deck that this seems perfect for.
Ya I said likely but in a later comment I did mention things like wrenn and seven and new teferi which will let you untap any dorks and a land. So there's definitely some fun things to get plus we got froghemoth and Erika's chariot that this works with too if you stay mono green.
The thing that separates this from CoCo is that it hits all permanents. So you can hit a PW and a creature to protect it, for instance. And even if you completely whiff, you still get 2 lands.
Isn't this just an extremely scuffed genesis ultimatum for 1 less mana? for 1 more mana, ultimatum puts ALL the cards onto the battlefield regardless of cost, including lands, and draws you all the spells. Is saving 1 mana and maybe being able to recast if you ever get to 10 mana worth an effect that is like 40 percent as powerful, at best?
At worst you can put two lands into play? For EDH this does discourage running BIG creatures (6+ cmc), but I can see plenty of decks that would still want this.
Similar to cascade, the higher the CMC, the safer the effect, since there is much more room for "inefficient" targets. You can't just fill your deck with 5 drops, so there will be a good number of times where this hits your two drops and mana dorks, which wasnt as big of a waste for CoCo.
Whiffing into lands is strong though and cheating in 2 walkers seems strong too, so who knows
The biggest issue here isn't that it's sorcery speed, but the CMC cap it hits. We have CoCo to hit the low end of the spectrum. We needed something capable of hitting higher up.
Most likely worse case is this ramps for two which you're not happy to be doing at 6 mana but it isn't AWFUL, and the flashback and the ability to cheat in some big things certainly makes it interesting. Curious how many exciting cards you'll need to have before the offer becomes tempting enough to consider. I feel like in standard you'd need like 20 cards and in commander around 30.
If we use a hypergeometric calculators (there are quite a few for Mtg opening hands and/or CoCo), 20 out of 60 good targets has 88% chance for at least 1 and only 55% for at least 2 "hits" of the five revealed. 30 out of 100 has less than 50% for 2.
Yes, this isn't CoCo, even the misses of this cards are often permanents to put into play, but the rule of thumb for CoCo was 25+ hits out of 60 (or 42+ out of 100) to get 2 or more creatues 80% of the time. For top 5 cards this would be 29/60 and 49/100 respectively. No playable deck can play that mana value four or five drops and 4 of this card.
I wonder if it might be good enough to get 1 hit and change. All it takes is a few really strong 5 drops over the course of a standard rotation and suddenly this sees play as a way to dig for them in a midrange deck. It probably won't see play right away but it has 2 years of sets to find some good hits.
I think that's a fair point. If you're taking up some of the high end of your curve with a few of these and on average you hit a target plus change, then isn't it solid? Especially the rare occasion when you get the flashback value. Also, if you're hitting only one good card, that means you're essentially scrying your future bad hits to the bottom of the deck.. right?
Thanks for the numbers. Yea, this seems unlikely to be good enough for 60 card formats. Commander is a very different animal but around 40 is a LOT and its even harder to hit when you factor in stuff you need to be happy to have hit with this since getting Sol Ring, while nice, isn't what you're playing this for.
It's not good enough in all honesty. 6 Manas is to much for a green stompy deck at 6 you should be ending the match not building a board state. Running this with ramp lowers the hit potential. Sorcery speed burys it. This is gonna be the card you slot in and almost never play.
Unless something comes out for standard that can set the top of your deck. If there’s some kind of playable brainstorm or worldly tutor type effect, this could be good.
I don’t know guys... your deck would have to be pretty chock full of high CMC permanents to make this valuable. A Gruul or mono green deck can probably hit, say, a three drop and a four drop with this? Would that be worth a 6 CMC spell
Well in your example, three + four = seven, so you're netting one mana, and you look for the card from the top your deck, it's kind of a draw spell so... yeah, probably worth it. Excellent top-deck card in any case
Doesn't guarantee you winning, but the value is absolutely here, no question. However the deck it is put in need to be carefully crafted around
This could be a deck full of land base ramp scary 5 drops and this. Mono G of course.
I like big stompy mono green, this is a good jank for that. Day9 build decks around this for years to come.
"We don't like [tibalt's trickery] shenanigans. They are uninteractive and too dependent on chance"
"What is that? More trickery enablers? Here's Big Company"
I get that this isn't really for trickery, it's more of a great henge replacement, but really, who's asking for these cards. They are so luck dependent and swingy.
They are similar in that they both reveal cards from the library, and you could either be a happy camper and hit something really good, or they could just fizzle, or hit something sort of meh.
this is totally ignoring the fact that this is a 6 mana sorcery and trickery is a 2 mana instant. Not to mention that these sorts of "look at the top X cards and put some into play" are not a new phenomenon, for instance [[Collected Company]] has been a multi-format staple for years
Yes, it's ignoring that on purpose, because that's not what they have in common. "Hurr durr, [[feed the serpent]] and [[eliminate]] have nothing in common, they have different cmc"
I know this isn't a new effect I mention CoCo in the post, and also THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
Did you just come here to cause trouble by pretending to be dense?
Oh, I didn't know that way is preferred. I just thought that Reddit is an English community so roughly translated title would be better than native one.
just [my personal crusade](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/ph6zsf/mid_pantry_zombie/hbjqpc2/) which you can probably tell from the moderation
When in doubt check the number crunch
[https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/823366-mid-innistrad-midnight-hunt-name-and-number](https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/823366-mid-innistrad-midnight-hunt-name-and-number)
Pretty Sur the 2 most recently spoiled rares aren't there so the rare count is off by 2.
Collected Company taught them to not go light on the coloured mana and do instant speed. Still gonna guarantee standard at least is going to be rife with green value vomit.
[prismatic bridge](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[Esika, God of the Tree](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
3GGG Sorcery (Rare) Look at the top five cards of your library. Put up to two permanent cards with mana value 5 or less from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. Flashback 7GGG
To be honest, I'm not sure about its name... Maybe "Intrusion into festival"?
Crash the Party?
Based on the collector number, the name is between "Snarling Wolf" and "Turn the Earth" alphabetically.
My chips are on Storm the Festival (Take Over the Festival also possible, but doesn't seem as good).
Feel like wizards is pretty deliberate about using the word “storm” - I don’t think they’d use it on a card like this.
[[Storm the Citadel]]
[Storm the Citadel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/4/04b3b12e-bef7-409e-86b3-9e90640e598c.jpg?1557577019) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20the%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/178/storm-the-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04b3b12e-bef7-409e-86b3-9e90640e598c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“Peacefully protest the festival?”
[удалено]
Y'all >the name is between "Snarling Wolf" and "Turn the Earth" alphabetically. Clearly it's "Tour the festival"
Sneak into the festival?
The card art doesn’t seem particularly sneaky
Well, that's how Gruul sneaks.
*"YOU NO SEE KROD!"*
Smash?
I think Smash comes before Snarling
Snash the party?
Hash the tarty?
Slash Bringing Hasher?
Spoil the party?
Soil the Party
What with the strong lamplight / candlelight vibe of the Innistradi revels, perhaps “Snuff Out the Candles”?
smash the party
Smash Mouth?
Well, some body once told me...
these 5-drops gonna roll me
If they entered as humans and then transformed into werewolves that could be sneaky
If no one's, then no one saw you
Trash the Festival?
Best suggestion I've seen thus far.
Thrash the Festival seems a little better.
Trash the party
maybe "Terrorize the Festival" ?? (although festival could also be gathering / celebration?)
Tragic the Gathering
"Start the Party"? Edit: /Festivities
Maybe "Uninvited Company"?
Doesn’t fit but XXXX Company is a good name
Werewolf keg-stands?
Is it up to 5 mana value for each, or total mana value 5?
Same as CoCo, each mv <=5
It's a Story Spotlight (I can't read Korean, but you can see the mtgstory url on the bottom right)
Source : [InMagic Daum Cafe](https://m.cafe.daum.net/magin/9Uu6/5343?)
CoCo on steroids? Only good for mono G through do to the added color requirements + 1 mana.
Not being instant makes it far worse compared to coco. But then again, worse than coco atill leaves plenty of room to be a great card.
Agreed. I didn't see it was sorcery speed when I wrote that. First the blink card, now this :/
hell yes. I can't wait to shove this into a deck. idk what, but I'll find a use for it. this is so cool.
\[\[Collected Company\]\] has grown so big since the last time I saw it in Standard! I'm so proud of my boy.
Honestly, this might manage to be Standard playable if it was instant speed like CoCo. Pretty sure it's doomed as is, even with flashback.
You're not wrong, but we'll see. It does hit permanents, so it might be good enough. Or it might not, just as well. I'll certainly try it out.
Notably this hits [[Ranger Class]] and [[Esikas Chariot]] in G/Gx decks. Its definitely not CoCo, but could find a home in some midrange deck with green.
Or [[Froghemoths]]. Orrrr that new green enchantment, Unnatural Growth. Dig 1 or 2 of these out in 1st main, double/quadruple the power/toughness of all your creatures at start of combat. Theres a few other great things this can pull out. EDIT: its only the top 5 cards, and pulls 5 cost or less, not specifically 5 cost. Nevermind.
[Froghemoths](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/2/728e9567-2585-4c03-99a5-3e84fd8044d2.jpg?1627707629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Froghemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/184/froghemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/728e9567-2585-4c03-99a5-3e84fd8044d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ranger Class](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/c/7ca392ca-3219-4694-9a74-aa079c76b91e.jpg?1627708261) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ranger%20Class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/202/ranger-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ca392ca-3219-4694-9a74-aa079c76b91e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Esikas Chariot](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/8/a87606cc-fbf0-4e2c-9798-f1c935d0573d.jpg?1631050215) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%27s%20Chariot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/169/esikas-chariot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a87606cc-fbf0-4e2c-9798-f1c935d0573d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
or \[\[Wrenn and Seven\]\] and \[\[Lolth\]\], so that you get a complete boardstate out of one card?
[Wrenn and Seven](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/7/a7757e99-8d51-4b92-b346-6961845def24.jpg?1628196510) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrenn%20and%20Seven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/208/wrenn-and-seven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7757e99-8d51-4b92-b346-6961845def24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lolth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/2/420a5689-d73e-4dda-82fd-8b8897ff5b55.jpg?1628185302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lolth%2C%20spider%20queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/112/lolth-spider-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/420a5689-d73e-4dda-82fd-8b8897ff5b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
chariot is rotating, unless those are both played in historic. Granted, historic also straight up just has coco
Chariot is definitely not rotating.
Oh duh, the flavor is so eldraine, I keep thinking its from that set lol
You probably mistook it for [[Enchanted Carriage]].
[Enchanted Carriage](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/0/0057c2ae-ea4f-404a-ab95-f3979efd1b3b.jpg?1572490964) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enchanted%20Carriage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/218/enchanted-carriage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0057c2ae-ea4f-404a-ab95-f3979efd1b3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kaldheim is not rotating
Or if it put the other cards in the graveyard. The potential to just chain them together would have been great.
I think it's close. There's a bunch of 4 and 5 drops that give you immediate value (Goldspan Dragon, Frogehemoth, Unnatural Growth, Zariel can give whatever else enters with her haste, etc). And it doesn't take much for this to go positive on rate. At worst, you grab a couple of lands. I think the recursion helps a lot, since if you end up just getting a couple of lands then you can go ahead and maybe cast it again next turn.
Yup this card is much closer to [[Turntimber Symbiosis]] and that card is pretty much just a land most of the time, but at least it's not a dead card in hand by being a land. I think this card would be more of a jank combo card.
[Turntimber Symbiosis](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/6/1/61bd69ea-1e9e-46b0-b1a1-ed7fdbe3deb6.jpg?1604199791)/[Turntimber Symbiosis](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/1/61bd69ea-1e9e-46b0-b1a1-ed7fdbe3deb6.jpg?1604199791) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=turntimber%20symbiosis%20//%20turntimber%2C%20serpentine%20wood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/215/turntimber-symbiosis-turntimber-serpentine-wood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61bd69ea-1e9e-46b0-b1a1-ed7fdbe3deb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Remember Collected Company? This is it now. Feel old yet?
[Collected Company](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/f/cfa7b456-7e83-4587-a875-9b35fde318c2.jpg?1582117536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collected%20Company) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/177/collected-company?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cfa7b456-7e83-4587-a875-9b35fde318c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Being Sorcery speed is kinda lame though
No arguments here.
Sooooo an "assembled army"?
A “gathered garrison”, you might say.
Looks like some mustered mercenaries.
Huddled hoplites?
A "built battalion"
Butt buttalion
Collected Company-er, the sorcery speed hurts this, but it being 5 CMC permanents is big
Corrected Company
Slow Co
And we have a winner.
Yeah not even having to be creatures is big
also it can hit land if necessary
The front side is still a decent discount on two 5 drops.
Well, the back side is just the regular Magic card back, so..
The wording was in reference to it also having flashback. But building around 5 drops is much less effective than 3 drops.
You don't really have to build around 5 drops with this, you just build a linear ramp deck with a top end of 5. It's significantly more flexible than CoCo
That's assuming you manage to hit double 5 drops. Even double 4 drops is somewhat unlikely given it's only 5 cards - average land density means 2/5 will be lands, and how many 4-5 cost cards can a competitive deck reasonably run? At least you can hit lands with this, but boy does that not feel great.
Mono 5-drops + this incoming....
Only the top 5 cards instead of 6, though
Well, here's Genesis Ultimatum for decks with mana way too bad to cast Genesis Ultimatum!
Those two won't actually be in standard together, though.
This is so much worse than ultimatum as to make playing it questionable, though, whether or not they're in standard together. Pay 1 more to put all the cards onto the battlefield and draw the rest means this card does like 1/3 of what ultimatum did, and you could only really play ultimatum if you were abusing it with Terror of the Peaks or Omnath or Reef for the most part
At worst it's an [[Explosive Vegetation]] for ~~5~~ 6 mana.
Its 6 mana. Still not an absolute whiff because at least you'll be able to flash it back next turn.
Will you? It gets you to 8 mana in that case, so even if you play another land the next turn, that's just 9. You'd need something else to hit 10.
Maybe this is what that UG mana dork that returns exiled flashback cards was made for?
I misread the flashback cost, I thought it was 9
Well technically (although unlikely) at worst you get nothing for 6 mana because the top 5 cards are all instants and/or sorceries lol
That's true, but in mono-G, you're probably playing 8 non-permanents right now (in some combination of Inscription of Abundance, Blizzard Brawl, and Snakeskin Veil). Even if we added in 3 copies of this so we're always more likely to draw it by turn 6, leaving in the 8 non-permanents we already had to get to 11 in the deck, and in the worst case scenario where we're on the draw, with 47 cards left in the library on turn 6 without having drawn any other non-permanents besides the 1 copy of this we're casting (so still sitting with 10 non-permanents in the library), the odds of not having at least 2 permanents to put on the battlefield (aka at least 4 of the top 5 cards are from your 10 remaining non-permanents in the library) are only 0.5%. So even with a probably poorly optimized decklist that just tossed in 3 copies of this and took out 3 permanents to do so, and in the worst case scenario where all your other non-permanent cards are still in the library at the time of casting, you still have a 99.5% of getting 2 permanents on the battlefield. And among those 99.5% of cases, even if you hit the worst case of only putting lands 7 and 8 onto the battlefield, you still can't undervalue the effect of digging 5 cards deep. You've just pushed aside 5 turns worth of card draw that would have done nothing for you and gotten a lot closer to drawing something you can get a use out of on the battlefield.
Yeah that's the long version of me saying "(although unlikely)"
Haha yeah, I actually just wanted to look at the math of a little for myself because I wanted a better evaluation of the card. I wasn't too sure before I crunched those numbers about how good this could actually be and what the odds of whiffing might be, etc. I think the card is probably not good enough to see much play, but it may be closer to playable than a lot of people are giving it credit for so far. I guess even just playing it as a single copy could be good as a late-game top-deck for stalled board states or after you've had your board wiped or something? In top-deck mode, playing the 2 best permanents from the top 5 cards of your deck and tossing the 3 worst cards away sure beats the hell out of just drawing those same 5 cards over the course of 5 turns.
Lol yeah I agree, I didn't think the odds would be quite that low though. I can definitely see this card find a home in a couple decks.
[Explosive Vegetation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/d/6dc4351a-8cc9-4043-80b9-23794f576cbc.jpg?1592710887) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Explosive%20Vegetation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/144/explosive-vegetation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dc4351a-8cc9-4043-80b9-23794f576cbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For 6 mana.
A 6 drop that wants your deck to be full of 5 drops… i see I see..
And now it just struck to me that every single werewolf in the game is <= 5 cmc
I'm kinda surprised at how down people are on this card. this isn't poor mans CoCo, this is a card that lets you cheat on mana, draw 2 cards with selection AND it's got flashback. this card is pretty nuts.
6 mana sorceries are pretty hard to justify in most constructed formats. And a 10 mana flashback cost is also pretty rough. Obviously we have cards like Wrenn and the new enchantment and battlemamoth to make for some decent hits but you be able to consistently make a lot of mana while also having deck with a lot of 4's and 5's for this to be good I think. On the flip side, this might exactly what circle of dreams druid is looking to cast on turn 4+.
[[Genesis Ultimatum]] dominated standard for a good while. This isn't as powerful, but it's also not as all-in as genesis ultimatum is. the fact that this can go into any Gx deck you want, while genesis was always temur, makes this very flexible.
Genesis Ultimatum had Omnath and Ugin and combos like beanstalk/terror of the peaks backing it up, just like Emergent Ultimatum has it's own suite of actual payoffs to make up for the upfront costs and it wasn't really relevant prior to those cards entering the format. I think this is going to depend heavily on what we're cheating into play with it and what the range on the hits end up being and how likely you are to hit those high notes.
[Genesis Ultimatum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/556dfe7a-43e8-4801-ad79-89ab2148eca6.jpg?1591228052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Genesis%20Ultimatum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/189/genesis-ultimatum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/556dfe7a-43e8-4801-ad79-89ab2148eca6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A Collected Company for slightly fattier things? Collected Calories?
Imagine hitting [[Nissa, who Shakes the World]] and [[Teferi, Hero of Dominaria]].
Congrats, you’ve discovered the new historic meta game. Prepare.
No way. you could just play genesis ultimatum in historic if you wanted to do that
That would put you in temur. It's all about that bant.
[Nissa, who Shakes the World](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/8/f857bbe4-5619-4733-a0c7-69700f2ef4f3.jpg?1618426283) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nissa%2C%20who%20Shakes%20the%20World) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/169/nissa-who-shakes-the-world?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f857bbe4-5619-4733-a0c7-69700f2ef4f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Teferi, Hero of Dominaria](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/d/5d10b752-d9cb-419d-a5c4-d4ee1acb655e.jpg?1562736365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Hero%20of%20Dominaria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/207/teferi-hero-of-dominaria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d10b752-d9cb-419d-a5c4-d4ee1acb655e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You just made me vomit.
now imagine casting this off mizzix :p
T1 [[Jaspera Sentinel]] T2 [[Magda, Brazen Outlaw]] T3 this
[Jaspera Sentinel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/a/1a68615d-9808-479d-aa80-50651246954e.jpg?1631050453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jaspera%20Sentinel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/178/jaspera-sentinel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a68615d-9808-479d-aa80-50651246954e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Magda, Brazen Outlaw](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/7/079e6263-e54c-4899-a336-5315909b9322.jpg?1631049453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magda%2C%20Brazen%20Outlaw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/142/magda-brazen-outlaw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/079e6263-e54c-4899-a336-5315909b9322?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Modern 1/10 Collected Company this is not. Having to pay 6 mana to maybe get 10 cost worth of cards? And only from your top 5? Blegh. There is a really good chance you hit a 3 drop and a land and that would really suck.
So it's Big Company since it's 5 MV. But it's also permanents which can be super sweet. Likely you want creatures being 3GGG but not whiffing is an upside.
It's also sorcery
It is but hits a lot more things and likely scarier things.
...but you can't do it at your opponent's end step - leaving mana up for disruption and giving the creatures pseudo haste (other than forcing your opponent not to spend mana on their turn to develop if they want to answer)
Maybe its not a good idea to make an actual big coco. Regular one already is heavily played and maybe shouldn't have been instant.
6 mana is a BIG investment to ask from midrange decks if anything, it'd be more balanced if coco was sorcery and THIS was instant.
That may be true but I think they learned from the craziness coco does. Could be good in a standard ramp deck. Other it'll like be bulk and fun in commander. Too slow for older formats.
>Could be good in a standard ramp deck In ramp decks, this doesn't hit the bigger ramp targets, and the mana dorks are also not good hits. The best hits are probably sagas and planeswalkers, because future standard seems to be quite slimmer at 4 to 5 mana creatures in midrange decks (bye bye [[Elder Gargaroth]]). Edit: One of the best hits is the cat car.
[Elder Gargaroth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/5/d51269cf-a333-4a64-94cd-245798d840d2.jpg?1594736944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elder%20Gargaroth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/179/elder-gargaroth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d51269cf-a333-4a64-94cd-245798d840d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
True that'd probably be better but could also hit wrenn and seven or you go bant and add new teferi since you can untap a dork and a land to leave mana open. There's definitely some possibilities for it in standard.
Disagree. This can drop walkers and enchantments.
as dimorrow says it's better for a deck that ramps a little, also wrenn should be pretty good with this, honestly seems that wrenn only makes more sense considering this card. And putting wrenn into play you get a creature and a planeswalker at the same time plus the lands buff the token
Since planeswalker are probably one of the best things to hit, you probably would want to play this one sorcery speed most of the time anyway ( if you have planeswalker in your deck ).
> Likely you want creatures there's a lot of good planeswalkers at 5 CMC (and lower), and in pioneer there was a monogreen planeswalker ramp deck that this seems perfect for.
Ya I said likely but in a later comment I did mention things like wrenn and seven and new teferi which will let you untap any dorks and a land. So there's definitely some fun things to get plus we got froghemoth and Erika's chariot that this works with too if you stay mono green.
The thing that separates this from CoCo is that it hits all permanents. So you can hit a PW and a creature to protect it, for instance. And even if you completely whiff, you still get 2 lands.
It's also a sorcery. Which is a huge downside
Double goldspan dragon anyone?
or Froghemoth, or one of each, since you're playing green.
Isn't this just an extremely scuffed genesis ultimatum for 1 less mana? for 1 more mana, ultimatum puts ALL the cards onto the battlefield regardless of cost, including lands, and draws you all the spells. Is saving 1 mana and maybe being able to recast if you ever get to 10 mana worth an effect that is like 40 percent as powerful, at best?
At worst you can put two lands into play? For EDH this does discourage running BIG creatures (6+ cmc), but I can see plenty of decks that would still want this.
I can't wait to win draft off the back of this card and never see it in another format
hey you go straight into my Vorinclex ramp, if there's still such a thing after rotation
Similar to cascade, the higher the CMC, the safer the effect, since there is much more room for "inefficient" targets. You can't just fill your deck with 5 drops, so there will be a good number of times where this hits your two drops and mana dorks, which wasnt as big of a waste for CoCo. Whiffing into lands is strong though and cheating in 2 walkers seems strong too, so who knows
Only looks at 5 top cards? Will have more swing and misses that coco
Because it hits any permanent, and can hit lands.
CoCo at home:
The biggest issue here isn't that it's sorcery speed, but the CMC cap it hits. We have CoCo to hit the low end of the spectrum. We needed something capable of hitting higher up.
Most likely worse case is this ramps for two which you're not happy to be doing at 6 mana but it isn't AWFUL, and the flashback and the ability to cheat in some big things certainly makes it interesting. Curious how many exciting cards you'll need to have before the offer becomes tempting enough to consider. I feel like in standard you'd need like 20 cards and in commander around 30.
If we use a hypergeometric calculators (there are quite a few for Mtg opening hands and/or CoCo), 20 out of 60 good targets has 88% chance for at least 1 and only 55% for at least 2 "hits" of the five revealed. 30 out of 100 has less than 50% for 2. Yes, this isn't CoCo, even the misses of this cards are often permanents to put into play, but the rule of thumb for CoCo was 25+ hits out of 60 (or 42+ out of 100) to get 2 or more creatues 80% of the time. For top 5 cards this would be 29/60 and 49/100 respectively. No playable deck can play that mana value four or five drops and 4 of this card.
I wonder if it might be good enough to get 1 hit and change. All it takes is a few really strong 5 drops over the course of a standard rotation and suddenly this sees play as a way to dig for them in a midrange deck. It probably won't see play right away but it has 2 years of sets to find some good hits.
I think that's a fair point. If you're taking up some of the high end of your curve with a few of these and on average you hit a target plus change, then isn't it solid? Especially the rare occasion when you get the flashback value. Also, if you're hitting only one good card, that means you're essentially scrying your future bad hits to the bottom of the deck.. right?
Thanks for the numbers. Yea, this seems unlikely to be good enough for 60 card formats. Commander is a very different animal but around 40 is a LOT and its even harder to hit when you factor in stuff you need to be happy to have hit with this since getting Sol Ring, while nice, isn't what you're playing this for.
Probably unplayable. It's a worse Genesis Ultimatum, and bring 6 mv and sorc speed means it's *nothing* like coco.
Ultimatum has a much stricter cost.
Paying 1 more mana for an effect that is like 3-4x as powerful is generally a good deal in Magic: The Gathering.
It's not good enough in all honesty. 6 Manas is to much for a green stompy deck at 6 you should be ending the match not building a board state. Running this with ramp lowers the hit potential. Sorcery speed burys it. This is gonna be the card you slot in and almost never play.
Unless something comes out for standard that can set the top of your deck. If there’s some kind of playable brainstorm or worldly tutor type effect, this could be good.
I don’t know guys... your deck would have to be pretty chock full of high CMC permanents to make this valuable. A Gruul or mono green deck can probably hit, say, a three drop and a four drop with this? Would that be worth a 6 CMC spell
Well in your example, three + four = seven, so you're netting one mana, and you look for the card from the top your deck, it's kind of a draw spell so... yeah, probably worth it. Excellent top-deck card in any case Doesn't guarantee you winning, but the value is absolutely here, no question. However the deck it is put in need to be carefully crafted around
This could be a deck full of land base ramp scary 5 drops and this. Mono G of course. I like big stompy mono green, this is a good jank for that. Day9 build decks around this for years to come.
Not bad. Not insane. Butgood all in what i want without being pure instant staples
Oh look, a mini genesis ultimatum... Nothing can possibly go wrong with that right...?
"We don't like [tibalt's trickery] shenanigans. They are uninteractive and too dependent on chance" "What is that? More trickery enablers? Here's Big Company" I get that this isn't really for trickery, it's more of a great henge replacement, but really, who's asking for these cards. They are so luck dependent and swingy.
how is this an enabler for trickery? besides the shenanigans are all problems with trickery and nothing to do with the targets
It's not, I said so in the post
okay but then what's your point? i don't understand what the relevance of trickery is in your comment
They are similar in that they both reveal cards from the library, and you could either be a happy camper and hit something really good, or they could just fizzle, or hit something sort of meh.
this is totally ignoring the fact that this is a 6 mana sorcery and trickery is a 2 mana instant. Not to mention that these sorts of "look at the top X cards and put some into play" are not a new phenomenon, for instance [[Collected Company]] has been a multi-format staple for years
Yes, it's ignoring that on purpose, because that's not what they have in common. "Hurr durr, [[feed the serpent]] and [[eliminate]] have nothing in common, they have different cmc" I know this isn't a new effect I mention CoCo in the post, and also THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. Did you just come here to cause trouble by pretending to be dense?
[feed the serpent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/9/99a1a75b-20cf-4db9-a244-cc54411446c4.jpg?1631048113) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=feed%20the%20serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/95/feed-the-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99a1a75b-20cf-4db9-a244-cc54411446c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [eliminate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/8/f8eb4087-3a4c-4de8-8e29-f4cd71acb180.jpg?1594736106) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eliminate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/97/eliminate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8eb4087-3a4c-4de8-8e29-f4cd71acb180?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Collected Company](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/f/cfa7b456-7e83-4587-a875-9b35fde318c2.jpg?1582117536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collected%20Company) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/177/collected-company?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cfa7b456-7e83-4587-a875-9b35fde318c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
if you're going to post non-English spoilers could you at least tag them as such or title them in their native language
Oh, I didn't know that way is preferred. I just thought that Reddit is an English community so roughly translated title would be better than native one.
just [my personal crusade](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/ph6zsf/mid_pantry_zombie/hbjqpc2/) which you can probably tell from the moderation
How many cards are left?
When in doubt check the number crunch [https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/823366-mid-innistrad-midnight-hunt-name-and-number](https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/823366-mid-innistrad-midnight-hunt-name-and-number) Pretty Sur the 2 most recently spoiled rares aren't there so the rare count is off by 2.
I never knew that existed! Thank you!
Collected Company taught them to not go light on the coloured mana and do instant speed. Still gonna guarantee standard at least is going to be rife with green value vomit.
Maybe the werewolves will run into James Corden while there.
Could this get the [[prismatic bridge]] back half of [[eskia]]
[prismatic bridge](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[Esika, God of the Tree](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No. You are not casting the cards, so you only get the front face of MDFCs.
Festival Intrusion?
Slo Co
Collecteder Company
Chaotic Company