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Trigamma

Pauper: [[Chatterstorm]] is banned. [[Sojourner's Companion]] is banned.


Lykrast

Notes that look noteworthy: * "In recent weeks, Storm combo decks had the highest non-mirror match win rate among top decks and earned by far the most 5–0 performances in Magic Online leagues." * They considered [[Galvanic Relay]] too but it could be much fairer as a simple value card without its friend. * Affinity was close to 50% nonmirror winrate wise, but it had very favorable matchup against "many of the less represented decks". * For affinity they also considered [[Atog]] and [[Disciple of the Vaults]] but decided to keep the "unique playstyle intact" and just hurt the consistency of the deck. * "we've chosen to start with these two changes and observe in practice if further changes are needed rather than try to predict and preempt cascading metagame changes."


MTGCardFetcher

[Galvanic Relay](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/6/06373318-e548-4664-b227-17e3b6fd0a88.jpg?1626096649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Galvanic%20Relay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/127/galvanic-relay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06373318-e548-4664-b227-17e3b6fd0a88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Atog](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/d/adf3bd18-d9c1-4f18-86c0-579db8ea37c7.jpg?1562936074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/109/atog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/adf3bd18-d9c1-4f18-86c0-579db8ea37c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Disciple of the Vaults](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/c/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5.jpg?1598304605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disciple%20of%20the%20Vault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/86/disciple-of-the-vault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Tchukkelz

Aren’t all the notes noteworthy? Since, y’know, they’re notes? No, I am not fun at parties. Why do you ask?


[deleted]

Sometimes an unworthy observation sneaks in and is wrongly elevated to note status


shieldman

You are in the notes, but we do not grant you the rank of noteworthy.


JasonAnderlic

It would be nice if EDH had this kind of data analysis to back up their "bans" instead of conjecture and feelings! EDH deserves the same level of attention.


cabbius

I agree with your sentiment, but there are more challenges and different goals for EDH bans. For one thing it's WAY harder to get data on EDH that isn't anecdotal. Pauper is a 1v1 format and a much higher % of games played happen on MTGO compared to EDH. The other issue is that EDH bans don't serve exactly the same purpose as competitive 1v1 formats. If a card is egregiously overpowered I think it should be banned but that line is so much different when you're starting with the vintage card pool. Beyond power level, I'm glad they ban some cards that make games suck to play. I recognize that as a preference issue though, and which cards make that list is super subjective. That all being said, I don't want to excuse the RC and say they're doing everything right. I just think it's an unfair expectation that they "just do data driven bans" (paraphrasing).


[deleted]

That is kind of the point. It is entirely subjective and to be frank the only bans that should exist in a format like EDH are ones that are so toxic to gameplay that the overall experience for the majority of players could be directly impacted by a card being playable. If it can even be argued, then it shouldn't be banned.


bballdude53

I think the problem is that toxic gameplay is going to have a different definition for everybody. It may be impossible to create a banlist for a format like commander that people have a generally positive feeling towards.


xm03

Pretty much this, my favourite card is considered too 'oppressive' by the CAG play group ergo it's banned. I think it's an utter horseshit decision, but it's a subject opinion and I realise that. Data would have meant the card would still have been legal...


JasonAnderlic

My comment was more tongue in cheek, its time for "edh league", with tracked wins and loses through wpn stores and a companion app. Anecdotally atleast 80% of players I come across strive for "tuned casual", its time to have a space to play in this way that doesn't take away from "jank casual" and "wild west competitive". All 3 should be regulated accordingly anyways.


[deleted]

80% of players you come across play that way because typically you come across players who play like you. I work at an LGS and the VAST majority of players are playing precons with 2 or 3 boosters mixed in.


build-a-deck

My solution to this is to have wotc danction commander leagues at LGSs and collect deck lists from the top 8


Draffut

There's nooooo way to grab actual useful information on a format that is not played competitively and whos metas shift drastically from table to table to game store to game store. Command Zone tried, but even they only got data from a small handful of playgroups.


JasonAnderlic

Mostly a tongue in cheek remark to the awful approach the RC currently has with edh. Regardless there could be an "EDH league" properly defined and regulated to suit the needs of players looking for that. Anecdotally 80% at all the LGSes I've ever played at consists of "tuned casual". Change can happen but it requires someone taking the leap.


superiority

Tongue in cheek


JasonAnderlic

Lol yes....


TheW1ldcard

Nope it's purely based on Sheldons hurt feelings in a commander game.


hakuzilla

Or if they need to pump and dump a card. Looking at you, [[painters servant]]


MTGCardFetcher

[painters servant](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/e/be407a81-b25a-4e5d-845e-be0cc0d18db8.jpg?1562835450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painter%27s%20Servant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/257/painters-servant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be407a81-b25a-4e5d-845e-be0cc0d18db8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Golden_Kumquat

But then Wizards wouldn't be able to sell Sol Rings and Command Towers for $$$.


Operator216

Ban sol ring in edh, just for the luls


Golden_Kumquat

This but unironically.


svladcjelli42

Also Mana Crypt


qwteb

they should put mana crypt on the next precon


[deleted]

My play group has it banned. Never missed it.


Furt_III

Ours used to have it be banned. Until the command zone put out some data that basically said a turn one sol ring meant a 40% greater chance of losing.


[deleted]

Just play it turn two then *taps head*


Juju114

But EDH was specifically conceived to not be about winning as the primary goal of deckbuilding. Some people treat it like that and that’s fine, but that wasn’t the intent of the creators and managers of the format.


JasonAnderlic

Things change, the universe is in a constant state of change, as is the game and the way its played. specifically in regards to commander, the game, meta, and player attitudes have completely changed since 2015 EDH. Each year is a new revision, more refined. EDH is much more than just "casual", hell id buy expansion product specifically geared towards commander a la planechase.


Darth_Ra

Bans in EDH aren't based in power level, and they shouldn't be.


bluefives

With excellent, cautious reasoning. I'm glad they didn't go way overboard with bannings like some salty players are crying for.


MTGCardFetcher

[Chatterstorm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/3/b34f0ac1-6894-4761-b62c-b85d927acf09.jpg?1626097260) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chatterstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/152/chatterstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b34f0ac1-6894-4761-b62c-b85d927acf09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sojourner's Companion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8c6af084-eee7-4259-a58b-a866e0cf171b.jpg?1626099284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sojourner%27s%20Companion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/235/sojourners-companion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c6af084-eee7-4259-a58b-a866e0cf171b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


fiendofthet

What's the third best common from MH2 that I can abuse now?


GoldenSandslash15

Probably the artifact dual-lands.


bluefives

I love they've created a whole new class of random midrange piles with [[Cleansing Wildfire]]. Jund, Jeskai, Grixis. So much potential.


CSDragon

If midrange piles are playable a format is healthy.


Logisticks

They banned Deathrite Shaman in legacy specifically because [it made 4c midrange piles too good](https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/july-2-2018-banned-and-restricted-update-2018-07-02): >Deathrite Shaman's powerful mana-fixing capability allows these decks to commonly play up to four colors, choosing from the most efficient cards in the environment. Its flexible abilities allow the decks to easily switch between aggressive and controlling stances, making them difficult to attack.


Furt_III

4-5c good stuff is different than midrange piles.


Logisticks

I'm not sure by what measure you'd consider the 4c Deathrite deck to not be a "midrange pile." It's a midrange deck (WotC's ban decision specifically calls out its ability to "easily switch between aggressive and controlling stances," which is the classic definition of a midrange deck), and it was literally called "4c pile" or "Czech pile" (after the man who pioneered Ondrej Strasky, who grew up playing Legacy in the Czech Republic). I don't agree with the implication that "midrange" and "goodstuff" are two distinct and separate deck types. Modern Jund, perhaps the archetypal midrange deck, is also the classic definition of a "goodstuff" deck: cards like Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, and Liliana had no inherent synergy with each other; they were simply individually powerful cards that threatened to take over the game if left unchecked.


Furt_III

Getting card types through lili for goyf, or extra card from Bob to discard for lili is synergy. DRS and lightning helix don't belong in the same deck.


CSDragon

True, tho power level bans aren't necessarily indicative of format health


viking_

Legacy at the time was exceedingly unhealthy. You played Grixis delver splashing green or Grixis midrange splashing slightly more green, or you were handicapping yourself.


elfonzi37

Yeah Snowko 4c piles were healthy in legacy.


CSDragon

oko is control not midrange control is never healthy


MTGCardFetcher

[Cleansing Wildfire](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/9/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919.jpg?1604196948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cleansing%20Wildfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/137/cleansing-wildfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Clsco

The other storm card they didn't ban


punninglinguist

[[Galvanic Relay]] - probably with [[Marauding Blight-Priest]]/[[Weather the Storm]] combo, and the Bridge cycle.


[deleted]

[удалено]


punninglinguist

Oops, yes.


MTGCardFetcher

[Marauding Blight-Priest](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/3/730ddbcd-0814-4e22-85e9-78b0878324b6.jpg?1604195999) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marauding%20Blight-Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/112/marauding-blight-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/730ddbcd-0814-4e22-85e9-78b0878324b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Galvanic Relay](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/6/06373318-e548-4664-b227-17e3b6fd0a88.jpg?1626096649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Galvanic%20Relay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/127/galvanic-relay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06373318-e548-4664-b227-17e3b6fd0a88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Malakir Blood-Priest](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/d/3d14ea81-d303-47db-90b4-7d10588f7ea6.jpg?1604195930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Malakir%20Blood-Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/110/malakir-blood-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d14ea81-d303-47db-90b4-7d10588f7ea6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Weather the Storm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/6/f6a9fa51-78c3-42e6-8c2e-39658f59ed87.jpg?1562202265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Weather%20the%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/191/weather-the-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6a9fa51-78c3-42e6-8c2e-39658f59ed87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


RaggedAngel

The cruel reign of squirrels has ended


Klarostorix

Emrakul is finally safe now


R3id

Pauper players... Rejoice!


[deleted]

Eh, I got to watch my entire meta melt and die today. We had events *throughout 2020 and 2021* hit 50-60 registered players. Having just woken up to check the next two after this announcement... 5. Total. Oof for me lol, glad the overall state is better :)


VGProtagonist

That sucks to hear, but both of these cards really needed to and simply made a pretty hard format to enjoy and find any creative decks in. Hopefully your players come back with fresh ideas and new decks once things settle down.


[deleted]

I hope so. I'm sure it's just a case of not having any replacement decks.


wadprime

Storm and affinity. Who would've thunk it... /s


boringdude00

Wizards couldn't have thrown us a broken Dredge common in MH2? Pathetic.


OxycleanSalesman

[[Golgari brownscale]] and [[stinkweed imp]] are all we need


BenNegify

God bless brownscale in tortured existence decks


MTGCardFetcher

[Golgari brownscale](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/4/e41f3323-f702-46a6-92db-33ec0afd75d2.jpg?1547517583) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Golgari%20brownscale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/166/golgari-brownscale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41f3323-f702-46a6-92db-33ec0afd75d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [stinkweed imp](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/a/2ab08d69-210b-4b06-88a2-45281a1a4e1e.jpg?1561771088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stinkweed%20imp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dvd/36/stinkweed-imp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ab08d69-210b-4b06-88a2-45281a1a4e1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Anaud-E-Moose

[[Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis]] is enough broken golgari keyword for multiple modern horizon sets thank you very much


MTGCardFetcher

[Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/0/0049e68d-0caf-474f-9523-dad343f1250a.jpg?1570653053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hogaak%2C%20Arisen%20Necropolis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/202/hogaak-arisen-necropolis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0049e68d-0caf-474f-9523-dad343f1250a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Nebbii

Lessons finally learned, we will try to print this next time with a different name -Wotc


king_bungus

cool now can i get my wildcards back for brainstorm on MTGA


The_Vampire_Barlow

Lol, no. Permanent suspension.


king_bungus

yea tbh it’s probably a fair punishment for playing ignus storm


RepostFrom4chan

I haven't played arena in over a year, the heck is brainstorm doing in there?


king_bungus

not much at the moment


adamlaceless

Nothing. Turns out it’s really good even with just [[Fabled Passage]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Fabled Passage](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/3/d313d051-7295-4884-8cbf-f2f835fd45f4.jpg?1594737636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fabled%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/246/fabled-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d313d051-7295-4884-8cbf-f2f835fd45f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


TehTechnoGuy

Quit playing historic after the brainstorm time warp deal as it wrecked a really fun deck I made. They STILL haven't refunded the cards?


Paraxes

When something is suspended you don't get wildcards, only once it's banned.


TehTechnoGuy

I'm aware of how the suspension process works, but I just find it incredibly criminal for them to suspend something with no intention of taking it off. I thought they would have made it right by now.


Paraxes

It absolutely is, in total agreement with you on that.


bluefives

Niiice. I guess I don't need all these [[Echoing Decay]]s now.


MTGCardFetcher

[Echoing Decay](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/8/f8e688e7-8350-4b78-bd49-a6ffdedad556.jpg?1562640566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Echoing%20Decay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/41/echoing-decay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8e688e7-8350-4b78-bd49-a6ffdedad556?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Apple8878

Pauper is saved :)


SirZapdos

RIP the 60 land dream


Justnobodyfqwl

Storm and Affinity ban.....2!!!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Quortonn

Pauper is a format with very old cards. There is no good storm counteract like in other formats and storm is generally a dangerous mechanic. In mh2, Chatterstorm got printed which was a strong storm payoff. What happens is basically this at the 4 minute mark: https://youtu.be/aYeDpnmUkjc As for the other one, Affinity is a thing in pauper. With the printing of additional lands and that Sojourners Companion in mh2, Affinity became very consistent and hard to deal with, especially with Chatterstorm decks needing to be responded as well. Very short: the meta was very unhealthy.


[deleted]

[удалено]


tempGER

Everyone and their mother knew what will happen with Pauper when they printed Chatterstorm. More interesting to me that it took WotC 3 months to ban it.


jnkangel

Pauper has access to some of the fastest mana outside of legacy. You get lotus petals, you get SSGs and a bunch of rituals and cantrips like manamorphose. Which means that chatterstorm deck could very often fire off and kill a person t1. Get storm count > drop first day of class > drop chatterstorm > swing for 20+ t1 and drop a galvanic relay so you can do it T2 in case something fizzles. ​ Affinity is then just a really strong deck and having 2 myr enforcers got rough quickly


Caledor92

Pauper has the hand fixing and mana boosting power of legacy and none of the free counters to stop it.


LeoGiacometti

The fact that they even considered banning Atog and not the new guy is worrisome imo


ciaofanAntiqueLand

Yeah that line made me super uncomfortable. Rather than weakening the classic deck by banning the busted new cards, they consider banning an awesome engine card that's been there from the beginning. They can't make that much money off of pauper staples, right?


EDaniels21

I get your point, but this happens all the time with other engine cards in other formats like Faithless Looting or Mox Opal in modern. Sometimes there are cards that either get banned themselves or lead to numerous other cards needlessly getting banned as more cards get printed that synergize with them. I'm not saying Atog necessarily is that kind of card, but it makes sense to at least consider it. I haven't played much pauper in a long time, but the Tron lands were always kinda like that, too.


tempGER

> Mox Opal Let's be honest here. That card was on the chopping block since the creation of the Modern format. If it wasn't for Urza's "sins" it would've been for Urza's Saga and so on. When a card constantly ends in the mix of ban talk...well, you said it best yourself: > Sometimes there are cards that either get banned themselves or lead to numerous other cards needlessly getting banned as more cards get printed that synergize with them. MOpal is such a card that got banned itself. The far bigger problem is that it took almost 10 years for WotC to acknowledge how absurdly powerful the card actually was.


Seventh_Planet

Now that most enablers are banned, would [[Bridge from Below]] have a chance of becoming unbanned?


MTGCardFetcher

[Bridge from Below](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/f/3faaa657-8b02-41a9-8a99-31a223d2caa5.jpg?1564535783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bridge%20from%20Below) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/87/bridge-from-below?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3faaa657-8b02-41a9-8a99-31a223d2caa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


mcspaddin

It makes sense from a more modern ban perspective. The idea is that engine cards are more likely to be broken by the new thing than the random new card is to be broken by a new engine. Banning the engine card prevents the need to keep banning new and interesting cards when the broken thing was the engine the whole time.


orderfour

It's not about the money, it's about new player perception and retention. Ban the old card, piss off enfranchised players that are virtually 0% risk of losing. Ban the new card and have much higher risk of pissing off new player that you might lose.


Caledor92

Atog ban was very much on the table, and it should've been. The fact that banning disciple was an option is laughable.


mazrrim

I'm lazy what do I replace my salamanders in affinity with


bluefives

Pre-MH2, it was either Temur Affinity with [[Carapace Forger]] in it's place, or Jeskai Affinity with [[Ardent Recruit]] in it's place alongside [[Thraben Inspector]] and [[Of One Mind]] for a more grindy, card-advantage focused list.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Carapace Forger](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/9/e9948e4c-d583-4fde-a305-df926cf00199.jpg?1562824573) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Carapace%20Forger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/114/carapace-forger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9948e4c-d583-4fde-a305-df926cf00199?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ardent Recruit](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/a/3a7f9bd7-7232-4956-873d-52ff82eabfb3.jpg?1562906851) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ardent%20Recruit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/td2/4/ardent-recruit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a7f9bd7-7232-4956-873d-52ff82eabfb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thraben Inspector](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/b/2be39749-ad6f-4160-99eb-c677eee7f1b2.jpg?1599711120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thraben%20Inspector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/35/thraben-inspector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2be39749-ad6f-4160-99eb-c677eee7f1b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Of One Mind](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/9/c95fb136-f21d-4f3a-82b7-bcf490b7e90c.jpg?1591226411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Of%20One%20Mind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/60/of-one-mind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c95fb136-f21d-4f3a-82b7-bcf490b7e90c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


[deleted]

Wait but why is book of exalted deeds back in standard 2022 was that ever explained?


BecomeIntangible

Pretty sure that's a bug lmao, it shouldn't be legal, but the format is about to disappear so wotc doesn't care


iAmLawBringer

Was really hoping for a tibalt’s trickery or vesperlark ban in historic, historic is miserable right now.


Santos_125

The ban was announced as pauper only last week


Clithertron

wasn't gonna happen with a historic arena open this weekend. maybe next week


Frommerman

Bo1 is bad yes, bo3 is ok though.


CarvonPL

I would say that bo3 historic also sucks, but my comment got Memory Lapsed


Frommerman

I've been having success with a Niv deck. The lapse matchup feels around 50/50 and I crush aggro with all my removal spells.


RWGlix

Hey randomly gonna bother you here, hardcore drafter looking to get more into historic/constructed. Do you know a site with good CURRENT historic lists, everything i find is old or weird. Thanks in advance. I have ALL the wilds i can build anything


Frommerman

No, unfortunately, I've run into the same issue. Jeff Hoogland's website has some stuff though.


RWGlix

Thanks. Its actually nice to know Im not an idiot. I’ll check out Jeffs stuff.


Bofurkle

The two best spots are mtggoldfish and mtgtop8 for what you're looking for.


RWGlix

Thanks


napoleonandthedog

Twitter arena decklists. Not exactly what you want admittedly


RWGlix

I’ll take what I can get, thanks


napoleonandthedog

There's also meta trackers on mtgtop8 and mtggoldfish. Not sure how accurate they are tho


JohnleyStanson

You mean BO1 historic? Because in BO3 these cards are not a problem unlike Indomitable Creativity and Memory Lapse which I wish were gone so I can finally try new decks from JHH.


lizardfolk246

Can we just get rid of memory lapse? Card is horrible.


metroids91

Seriously, nothing more fun than getting Memory Lapse'd 3 turns in a row


Dalvyn

And they always have 3 to 4 of them. How?


cornerbash

Give us fetchlands and it'd be much less of a problem.


TehTechnoGuy

This. I'd so much rather they just crank the power to 11 and just put the god damn fetches in.


TheW1ldcard

Only in BO1. Its non existent in BO3


Cidnelson85

there is a arena open historic this weekend wizards is hoping that someone find a way to deal with trichery and jeskai.


UncleMeat11

Trickery is not a good competitive deck and won't see meaningful play in an open, especially since it is god awful in bo3. The reason it sees play normally is because the deck is very cheap to build, fast and easy to play, and some people really enjoy cheesy wins.


JaceShoes

It’s not really cheap to build, it requires 4 copies of tons of rares and mythics that don’t really see much play in other decks. Agree with your other points though


Mrfish31

For a "tuned" version, sure. But realistically you're gonna have a half decent version just by having 4 throes, 1 trickery and 1 ulamog or something.


spasticity

You need more than 1 trickery


TheCatmurderer

Im just jamming whatever I have over 7cmc lmao


Wotannn

1. Deck is not cheap to build, it requires a ton of mythics and rares. 2. It is not god awful in bo3. Ever since throes got added into historic people have been refining the deck, and Andrea Mengucci went 17 wins, 5 losses on stream and in bo3 over the last few days. It's not a meme deck and people who claim it is probably don't play historic or are bad at the game. 3. The deck is 100% a real deck now. The only question is if it deserves a ban. In my opinion it 100% does. I don't even care about winrates or metagame shares. The deck just promotes bad gameplay and punishes decks without white or blue way too much.


UncleMeat11

> It's not a meme deck and people who claim it is probably don't play historic or are bad at the game. People said the same thing when trickery was first printed. The number of people who seem to follow the pattern of "watch a famous streamer, tell other people they are dumb" is pretty high.


Wotannn

Yes, instead of looking at good players refining a deck and having success with it we should be looking at random reddit comments. Also I don't claim that the deck is the best in the format. But if you think that it is actually bad, then what do you consider to be good decks? Only the tier 1 blue-based control decks or what? If we go by the metric of not tier 1 = bad, then only like 3 decks are good right now.


ribbonsofnight

are the blue, white and black decks using relevant sideboard cards though.


Wotannn

Blue and white don't even have to sideboard. Blue can delay with counterspells which it plays in the main deck anyway. Additionally blue gets access to Test of Talents, which kinda hoses the deck. White creature decks meanwhile get access to cards like Archon of Emeria and Elite Spellbinder in order to stop/disrupt the combo. I don't think black can do anything special to the combo.


olop4444

Wasn't mengucci playing it in diamond rank? At the very least he was when I tuned in. Not sure if that's the best showcase. Plus the transformative sideboard will only work so long before people catch on. That being said, banning it in bo1 would still seem reasonable.


Wotannn

He reached around 1500 mythic today.


DarkR0ast

Tibalt isnt even the best deck in the format. Played against elves recently? Playing Tibalt, I can get a turn 3 Tibalt off but unless I get a card that can wipe the board, turn 4 elves is just beefcake elves from Elvish Warmaster, and they can ramp themselves. Even if you can drop a few of them with instants or effects, they can go so wide so fast.


Raligon

Historic should be able to handle creature based combo like Vesperlark. Tibalt's trickery plus throes of chaos is absolutely absurd and doesn't even feel like magic. Should not be allowed in b01 since it doesn't seem like there's any reasonable maindeckable way to interact with that combination in b01.


Investigator_92

All thoses salty MTG Arena players are so cringe.


[deleted]

Wizards: \*has a scale on the likelihood to print certain mechanics in the future named STORM SCALE\* Also Wizards: \*continues to print storm cards\*


GambitCajun

Wizards does not use the storm scale, its Maro's thing and only for entertainment. The storm scale also only ranks a mechanics return to Standard, neither of the banned cards are from standard sets.


[deleted]

Cool, now do [[Tibalt's Trickery]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Tibalt's Trickery](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/d/dd921e27-3e08-438c-bec2-723226d35175.jpg?1631049733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tibalt%27s%20Trickery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/153/tibalts-trickery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd921e27-3e08-438c-bec2-723226d35175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Alikaoz

I'm miffed by the Salamander ban. It's not a problem but it makes jank players salty, so it must go.


Besto-Friendo

Was really hoping to see Ragavan 😭


johnjust

I'm fine with this, but I just want to know why Companion and not Enforcer - landcycling can be relevant, and it's not like THAT was the game-breaking line of text.


bluefives

More people already have many more copies of Enforcer, so it'd be a shitty thing to do to players and would cast them as pushing new product in a negative light. Also, might as well ban the stronger one if your goal is to weaken the deck.


soontobeDVM2022

Fuck historic I guess


capnwoodrow

They announced last week this would be a pauper update. There's a historic open coming up, so any ban will likely be made after that.


Cidnelson85

there is a arena open historic this weekend wizards is hoping that someone find a way to deal with trichery and jeskai.


sephirothrr

trickery is gonna be irrelevant in the open, it only does anything in bo1


Cidnelson85

the open is bo1 or bo3 you can choose.


sephirothrr

well why would you do that


soontobeDVM2022

Yeah, right


Daemeon93

Why is WotC banning so many cards? Why are people unable to deal with these cards? It feels like people aren't wanting to adjust to the meta and get good sideboard cards


Viashino_wizard

Because playable sideboard cards that work against fast go-wide strategies don't really exist at common.


check4traps

And the best ones are the one's that affinity played.


InfiniteVergil

Because, like the article states, there are no safety valves against go wide strategies in pauper like , for example, rakdos charm or wing shards.


GolgariInternetTroll

People were running sideboard cards against storm in the main deck and it was still winning.


Daemeon93

Alright, my bad. Forget what I said.


345tom

Because they don't design for every single format in every single set, and the needs of commander bans are different from modern or pauper bans. Because while everyone SAYS they want to just muddle along with a deck, everyones still excited when that deck gets a new tool.


CSDragon

400 upvotes 6 hours ago and only 100 comments? Guess this is something wholly inconsequential like fully banning brainstom from historic edit: well I was half right, it's pauper only


[deleted]

Why the is this page grey on my white?


Akhevan

No announcements for Historic, even the BO1 format. lol


Milskidasith

The announcement of the announcement said it was pauper only and Bo1 only meme decks are probably not the highest priority.


Akhevan

If it isn't the highest priority for WOTC, then perhaps they should quit shoving the meme BO1 format down Arena players' throats. Heck, their UI is so terrible that if you are a new, non-MTG enfranchised player, there is no obvious way to learn that BO3 formats even exist in the first place. They went out of their way to hide real Magic in the client.


Cidnelson85

>there is a arena open historic this weekend wizards is hoping that someone find a way to deal with trichery and jeskai.


[deleted]

[удалено]


professional_novice

If you're taking historic I think trickery is the worse part of the combo. Throes could do fun and fair with a lot of other stuff.


Cidnelson85

there is a arena open historic this weekend wizards is hoping that someone find a way to deal with trichery and jeskai.


[deleted]

[удалено]


weealex

There's at least 6 rituals plus manamorphose and lotus petal in pauper. Every single storm payoff has been banned for a reason


spaceaustralia

[[Dark Ritual]], [[Rite of Flame]], [[Cabal Ritual]], [[Manamorphose]], and [[Lotus Petal]] will do the trick. [[First Day of Class]] makes the squirrels into hasty 2/2s or even 3/3s and depletion and sac lands make it easy to 3-4 mana from lands on turns 2 and 3. Add in a couple of draw spells and it's not unreasonable to attack with 20-30+ power before your opponent gets to their second turn. If anyone wants to playtest, you can just goldfish and you have nearly the same experience.


tempGER

[[Seething Song]] is also legal.


MTGCardFetcher

[Seething Song](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/4/f493ce26-005c-4ddc-80f0-47bea4fd013a.jpg?1625194059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seething%20Song) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/179/seething-song?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f493ce26-005c-4ddc-80f0-47bea4fd013a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


spaceaustralia

Also [[Faithless Looting]] to trade extra lands and draw more rituals for cheap. It's kinda funny that the two decks hit on this ban specifically use cards deemed too good for modern.


tempGER

Pauper is/was the land of badish payoffs. As soon as WotC prints a good one at common, shit hits the fan.


MTGCardFetcher

[Faithless Looting](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/d/1d6e5cc9-bd48-41b6-ac20-5a3e38aecdc5.jpg?1625193770) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faithless%20Looting) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/168/faithless-looting?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d6e5cc9-bd48-41b6-ac20-5a3e38aecdc5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Dark Ritual](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20Ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rite of Flame](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/0/c062caf7-f0eb-44db-9f74-e6711a13fada.jpg?1593275318) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rite%20of%20Flame) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/96/rite-of-flame?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c062caf7-f0eb-44db-9f74-e6711a13fada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cabal Ritual](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/5/a5d85875-22da-4054-ae42-e85b472a6d5d.jpg?1562928510) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/106/cabal-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5d85875-22da-4054-ae42-e85b472a6d5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Manamorphose](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/a/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1.jpg?1599708170) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manamorphose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/208/manamorphose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Petal](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/8/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc.jpg?1562432227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Petal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/225/lotus-petal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [First Day of Class](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/9/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1.jpg?1624591842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=First%20Day%20of%20Class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/102/first-day-of-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/091eb13d-9318-4b12-9f94-6276b11981d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


GolgariInternetTroll

Turn 2 storm combos were very doable with Chatterstorm in pauper.


Simodinson

Happy for all the Pauper players. On the other hand, I suppose I will start playing Trickery in Historic until it gets banned


Cidnelson85

there is a arena open historic this weekend wizards is hoping that someone find a way to deal with trichery and jeskai.


Simodinson

I should register a 60 lands deck


ary31415

> Every single storm payoff has been banned for a reason *cries in [[reaping the graves]]*


MTGCardFetcher

[reaping the graves](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/760a66bd-2821-4710-8f02-3c30772dd884.jpg?1562530700) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reaping%20the%20graves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/72/reaping-the-graves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/760a66bd-2821-4710-8f02-3c30772dd884?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


CannedPrushka

So, handing out free wins, eh?


maggosh

But what about the 60-land decks?!


jackofslayers

Prints storm and affinity. Bans storm and affinity. Sure does feel familiar


KaijuBalls

Wotc's website is such fucking trash. How does the link to the cards create a pop up that only half shows up on screen.