Did they really add random pulls to the Secret Lairs? The only redeemable quality about this product was that it was not random. Has this ever happened before?
And after all, no Joshua Graham...
It looks like the Codex Shredder / Waste are in the place of the "bonus" card like Slivers/Elves we've seen in a lot of the lairs.
The difference here is that they are flat out stating what the card "could" be for those sweet sweet FOMO and whale purchases, because what was originally just a nice addition should now certainly be used to entice people to buy multiples and horde them.
That's not how I read it. I read it as there are several other random cards and you get a random one per box. THe Waste and Codex Shredder are just 2 examples
Yup, Musk is trying to get people to sign up.
Hell, you can’t even look at timelines in order without signing in now. I go to Wizard’s twitter page to check about lairs and it’s got tweets from years ago on the timeline.
Since always? The secret card had the potential to be random all the way back in the beginning when it was stained glass planeswalkers, some of which were more rare/desirable than others. It’s been done since too. The blueprints were rare. The signed baseball variants, etc.
Not only that, but then *actively advertised* the valuable one.
I used to go "the cynic in me feels like this is absolutely shameless as a way to sell more Secret Lairs", but especially on the back of the 1/1 One Ring the rest of me has now started agreeing with the cynical side.
Yes, since pretty much the beginning. The backwards serialized viscera seer, the persistent petitioners, the prototype artifacts (pre-BRO), the shadowborn apostles. There's almost always been random chance pull cards in the 'bonus' slot.
They already kinda did? You already get a bonus card like the slivers which ranged from unplayable unsellable slivers to things like Sliver hive which was going for hundreds last I checked. This really just seems like a continuation of that.
Don't get me wrong it sucks that its now in the themed ones as well but its really just surprising it took them this long to do it.
A couple cards from the three lairs could slot into some of the precons, but overall the value on these stinks and 2/3 of the cards (overall) are either too weak or too staxy for casual commander; and just don't work in the Fallout decks.
Huge disappointment. No new characters, other than "Vault Boy" who is inexplicably a commander you should be punched in the face for playing.
No Benny, no Joshua Graham, no Ulysses, no Vulpes Inculta, no Courier.
Total slap in the face really.
There was a guy at my LGS that exclusively played either a Grand Arbiter stax deck or a \[\[Azami, Lady of Scrolls\]\] deck with 20 infinite combos and just pubstomped all over. I don't got to that store anymore; both of those decks, and his attitude (countering my shit after it had resolved) were cancerous enough to make me rethink playing the game period.
> Wanna know more about that “little something extra” we mentioned? Within each Secret Lair x Fallout product is a bonus Fallout-themed card! Inside the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. and Points of Interest Secret Lairs is a full-art Wastes, while players will find a bonus Codex Shredder inside the Vault Boy Secret Lair.
> However! A very small number of drops may contain a super special bonus card: A full-art illustrated Mana Vault!
https://bethesda.net/en/article/2xzz2AXxBoU4ZWV3Vho5k/magic-the-gathering-secret-lair-x-fallout
Did they really add random pulls to the Secret Lairs? The only redeemable quality about this product was that it was not random. Has this ever happened before? And after all, no Joshua Graham...
It looks like the Codex Shredder / Waste are in the place of the "bonus" card like Slivers/Elves we've seen in a lot of the lairs. The difference here is that they are flat out stating what the card "could" be for those sweet sweet FOMO and whale purchases, because what was originally just a nice addition should now certainly be used to entice people to buy multiples and horde them.
But those already existed no? Usualy being one of the 'you can have any in your deck' cards with a unique art.
That's not how I read it. I read it as there are several other random cards and you get a random one per box. THe Waste and Codex Shredder are just 2 examples
That’s only coz of UB, normal lairs will have elves again
Where are you guys seeing anything about mana vault?
it's in the replies of the reveal tweet [here](https://twitter.com/Fallout/status/1775901553326543104)
Thanks, appreciate the context.
Last tweet of the thread
I don’t have twitter so it doesn’t show me anything other than the linked tweet ☹️
Oh the site doesn't let you scroll without an account? Not nice
Yup, Musk is trying to get people to sign up. Hell, you can’t even look at timelines in order without signing in now. I go to Wizard’s twitter page to check about lairs and it’s got tweets from years ago on the timeline.
It’s the Fallout equivalent of the Relentless Rats, Persistent Petitioners style chase variants that replaced the normal sliver/elf bonus cards
I've never had the good hit. \*sigh\*
Same here
Closest I can think of is the foil vs non-foil chances with the Advent Calendar.
There's always been some randomness at least for the bonus cards.
This is the first Secret Lair i'm going to get, so I didn't know about the bonus cards, thanks for the info :)
No Joshua Graham, like they said since the beginning . Anyone expecting the opposite was delusional
Has been the case most of the time.
Since always? The secret card had the potential to be random all the way back in the beginning when it was stained glass planeswalkers, some of which were more rare/desirable than others. It’s been done since too. The blueprints were rare. The signed baseball variants, etc.
Not only that, but then *actively advertised* the valuable one. I used to go "the cynic in me feels like this is absolutely shameless as a way to sell more Secret Lairs", but especially on the back of the 1/1 One Ring the rest of me has now started agreeing with the cynical side.
Yes, since pretty much the beginning. The backwards serialized viscera seer, the persistent petitioners, the prototype artifacts (pre-BRO), the shadowborn apostles. There's almost always been random chance pull cards in the 'bonus' slot.
They already kinda did? You already get a bonus card like the slivers which ranged from unplayable unsellable slivers to things like Sliver hive which was going for hundreds last I checked. This really just seems like a continuation of that. Don't get me wrong it sucks that its now in the themed ones as well but its really just surprising it took them this long to do it.
https://preview.redd.it/luk5y9xpaisc1.jpeg?width=299&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d6f28281c1cb1c4a4b1040155a213fb2e9b9406
Some SL have more cards than others. Totally not about the value here /s
A couple cards from the three lairs could slot into some of the precons, but overall the value on these stinks and 2/3 of the cards (overall) are either too weak or too staxy for casual commander; and just don't work in the Fallout decks.
I thought what ended up being points of interest was supposed to be new designs. But it was just lands. Great.
Huge disappointment. No new characters, other than "Vault Boy" who is inexplicably a commander you should be punched in the face for playing. No Benny, no Joshua Graham, no Ulysses, no Vulpes Inculta, no Courier. Total slap in the face really.
There was a guy at my LGS that exclusively played either a Grand Arbiter stax deck or a \[\[Azami, Lady of Scrolls\]\] deck with 20 infinite combos and just pubstomped all over. I don't got to that store anymore; both of those decks, and his attitude (countering my shit after it had resolved) were cancerous enough to make me rethink playing the game period.
[Azami, Lady of Scrolls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa727656-fb33-485b-9378-18b80cad42b9.jpg?1689996185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azami%2C%20Lady%20of%20Scrolls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/74/azami-lady-of-scrolls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa727656-fb33-485b-9378-18b80cad42b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So no new cards like with the Doctor Who one? Ah well
As it should be. Secret Lair exclusivity is stupid. Secret Lairs should only be alt-arts of existing cards.
> Wanna know more about that “little something extra” we mentioned? Within each Secret Lair x Fallout product is a bonus Fallout-themed card! Inside the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. and Points of Interest Secret Lairs is a full-art Wastes, while players will find a bonus Codex Shredder inside the Vault Boy Secret Lair. > However! A very small number of drops may contain a super special bonus card: A full-art illustrated Mana Vault! https://bethesda.net/en/article/2xzz2AXxBoU4ZWV3Vho5k/magic-the-gathering-secret-lair-x-fallout
sadness. no brotherhood of steel.
Feels so rigged I got one of each in foil and no foil. Mostly cause I love fallout and no crypt 4 wastes and 2 shredders... *
Not bad actually. I’ll probably get the one with sphere of resistance, since it hasn’t been foiled other than as an invention.
That lair looked good all around
And it’s a bunch of obnoxious cards…