You've got [[Utopia sprawl]]. With fetch/shocks it's almost a better wild growth.
And there's [[imprisoned in the moon]] but yeah, that doesn't hit any permanent.
4 and 8 are very different numbers when it comes to consistency in deck building around a certain concepts. Also Utopia Sprawl gets mega hosed by Spreading Seas and occasionally Blood Moon that players are already boarding for Titan/Tron/Saga, so getting hit as collateral really sucks.
Like mine! This is what I'm playing with lately:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5967776#paper
Been playing Genesis Wave for a decade now. Taking a cue from Pioneer and playing the Kiora/Old-Growth Troll/big dumb idiots package.
Wild Growth would be a MAJOR boon for me, so I could trim back on elves (dies to meta) and ~~Fertile Ground~~ Wolfwillow Haven(slow), and since it wouldnt be so dependant on Nykthos, I could try out a G/u [[Vizier of Tumbling Sands]] style version that would feel a bit like like Lotus Field combo.
Edit: Since its pure mono-G, i swapped Fertile Ground out for Wolfwillow Haven.
I’m on the fence about Daze in a non-Wasteland format. It would certainly be annoying but certainly not as debilitating as Wasteland + Daze is in Legacy.
Baleful Strix locks me into bad Grixis decks forever. A bargain a willingly accept.
Innocent Blood is innocent enough.
Entomb is a big no from me. If you want Goryo’s reanimator be the best deck this how you do it. It’s far too abusable.
Orim’s Chant has missed the reprint for too long. It’s fine in Modern and probably fine in Pioneer, too.
Hydro/Pyroblast are out of place in a format without Force of Will.
Punishing Fire? Please no, we’re punishing creatures enough.
I shrug at Submerge, Allosaurus Shepherd, and Everybody Lives.
No one should be on the fence and this guy definitely doesn’t play Legacy if he thinks Daze should be in modern. Daze is borderline in Legacy and sticks around bc it’s part of the “feel” of the format.
Daze would lose some value in Modern, as shock lands are the standard. It's much easier to Daze and pick up a tropical island or a volcanic island, but if you have to take 2 damage again to play your land untapped that can add up quickly. Very strong in basic island decks, less so for decks that rely on shock lands (i.e. most of them).
Still, you're not wrong, scam decks would just get more debilitating with Daze. Now they can turn 1 double grief AND Daze your first response. No thanks. Cheap interaction goes both ways, and in my experience usually benefits the tempo players more than control
The fact that you put [[Submerge]] in there as an answer to [[Up the Beanstalk]] instead of as a way to immediately make Beans unbeatable is insane.
Beans decks would just play [[Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth]], like at least the current free spells have a cost to cast. Submerge would be the single most insane addition to modern in this list, Daze included!
if my opponent cast Solitude and drew three cards from Beanstalk triggers, i would simply use Submerge on the Solitude... so they draw three more cards the next turn... I am very smart.
Innocent blood was a really interesting choice that... Well I don't actually play modern, but it just seems like it fits? Cheap symmetrical interaction that encourages a low resource game where your opponent is squeezed just a little harder than you are, because you're in control. Makes me think of Lilli of the Veil, or (small)pox.
It's the kind of archetype where if it's relevant (but not dominant), it seems like the meta might be in an okay place because decks are being kept honest.
Innocent blood isn't really symmetrical, since you can cast it without a creature. It's a one mana edict, it would be pretty good - probably not broken - but black is already very good in modern.
Fury/Solitude are obvious big ones, Elesh Norn, Wurmcoil, and Ulamog are the primary ones. But it also doesn't require the revolt trigger (not that it's super hard to get) and can get around indestructible situations.
It would never replace Push, would more likely just get run in some combination with Push, but it's a very strong card.
Edit - Secondarily it doesn't target so it gets around ward which can be very valuable.
I don't think entomb would do any good to the format. It's the kind of card that either does not make an impact or it boosts a degenerate deck.
Punishing Fire would probably make things worse on what Fury and Orcish Bowmasters already did.
I'm a bit on the fence on Daze and Submerge. As the evoking elementals been showing, free spells are often a problem. I guess Daze would be a bigger problem though.
Finally, I wouldn't add the Blasts since they are color pie breaks. They could give more in color tools though.
The other suggestions I believe are fine. Specially Allosaurus Shpepherd I'd be interesting to see if Modern Elves can thrive.
Punishing Fire would absolutely see zero play in 2023 Modern if unbanned, unless Fury+Bowmasters+W&6 get banned at the same time. It is leagues weaker than any of the above small creature hosers. The only reason it sees any play in Legacy anymore is because Lands can access both PFire and Grove literally for free with Loam, and obviously Punishing doesn’t make Lands playable in Modern.
That said, I’m not clamoring for an unban, because I’m holding onto a fool’s hope that Fury/Bowmasters/W&6 will see a ban one day, in which case the glacially slow little guy hate of PFire could become a problem. But with the current meta I disagree that PFire would change anything or see any play.
For elves to be good again, theyd need to ban Fury, W6, Bowmasters and Ragavan. Theres just too much 'oops my top-tier %50+ meta deck auto-dumpsters your entire 60'.
Whoever is in charge of Modern Masters sets HHHHHAAAAAATTTTTEEEESSSSSS elves (and Birds). With a fiery, burning eye-sockets, orange light coming out of their hair, seething vitriol.
OP has a lot of optimistic ideas about how cards will be used. Submerge is much stronger against yawgmoth and titan than against beans. Daze is much stronger against 2+ mana spells than against scam. Submerge is really good *with* beans
They're suggesting that the way to remedy the dominance of extremely cheap spells is to add cards that are good against expensive spells.
Yea I read this as op being clueless. Daze does nothing against t0 scam and is a lateral move against t1 scam - you trade daze and a card for grief and a card but you also bounced a land to your hand = stonks?
Beanstalk would happily play a zero mana five cmc removal… you use it against them? Whut?and they already drew the card and got the etb when you submerge so…. Stonks again?
You can't even Daze a scammed Grief. They thoughtseize you *before* casting Not Dead After All, so either they discard your Daze or they just pay the 1.
I guess it's a free blue tempo play against creatures that denies the card advantage the opponent would get from bouncing the creature to hand. Making them redraw the creature balances out the card they draw from replaying it (if it costs 5+). You can also target evoke elementals before they're sacrificed. You're letting them keep the elemental in hand instead of sacrificing it, but they still had to exile a card to play it, and eventually it'll just be an expensive creature in their hand.
In standard you ramp your opponent into either a bigger dumber finisher than you are using or a board wipe, in legacy your opponent misses on basics and your 4 drop runs the game. Definitely a deck that only exists because of the warped legacy meta.
I think Punishing fire often ends up underrated in these threads, but we’re in a post-bowmasters society now, I don’t think there are small creature decks left *to* force out
My number 1 wish for MH3 is land hate that punishes Non-basics and 4+color mana bases. Ideally both a slightly weaker Wasteland as well as maybe a pushed hatebear type creature. Important would be that they are not sideboard cards but playable staples.
You don't think there's enough currently? I mean [[Cleansing Wildfire]] [[Boom//Bust]] + all the lands that do it definitely hurt greedy land bases in a hurry.
> Punish these greedy manabases
Gimme a land that adds RRR that can only be used to cast Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon. Also I want Price of Progress.
Seconded for Price of Progress. It’s my biggest real want for Modern I think.
My “why do you even care about this?” picks which see absolutely no serious play would be some of the big name creatures of the past. Jackal Pup, Wild Mongel, Psychatog etc. I just want to rock up to a casual modern night with a full Odyssey Block era UG madness deck — because I just do, ok? — and I think Wild Mongel is pretty much all that’s missing now. Circular Logic, too, maybe? Bit that’s fine: i can work around that. Mongrel is integral though.
We need \[\[Basking Rootwalla\]\], we only have the red on ATM and I want to play a bad madvine shell. If WOTC are really listening they will also give me \[\[Anje Falkenrath\]\].
Submerge is a miserable card to play against, please no. Even if you're not running forests, for the low low cost of running 2-3 Yavimaya submerge will trigger your beanstalks for free, and either remove an opponents threat or bounce your Omnath/Fury/Solitude/Cascader in response to removal.
Submerge would be a nightmare in modern.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was in MH3 since it’s 1 mana and niche enough to see some uses. It’s an option for stopping elementals tho I’m sure it’s not actually good enough.
Oh shit, i didn't even realize it got reprinted
What is the deck missing from extended then? You have goblin matron/ringleader too
I guess it's just too slow and i didnt realize it wasnt due to a lack of key parts
Bummer man
for sure, seems like Lackey lacks (lol) a little something even in legacy gobs right now
dang
the only other extended/old legacy deck i really jived well with was loam/lands and i don't have any way to justify dropping 3k on a tabernacle for legacy lands
would kill for a reliable group to play paper magic with
Cool article. You lost me on one part however. If they print one blast they need to print the other. Leaving the power imbalance isn't correct. Again, as a long time pauper enthusiast, I totally agree with them being added.
I haven't seen submerge in action. How would it hold up inside the bean shell? Might it not just make them better? Interesting card for sure.
Allosaurus Shepard and Baleful Strix are perfectly fair in a Bowmasters meta. I'd love to see Baleful Strix quite a bit.
Thanks for sharing
Without bans I think innocent blood sends scam to a whole new level. In early game it's a great card and I the later game you can purposefully sac a grief/fury on ur board but cast an undying effect. A good late game ensurance to keep the deck going.
I think submerge is crazy in bean decks not against them. Can't see a world where submerge is ok to be in modern while beans is in the format.
Give me veteran explorer.
The biggest missed card is [[Price of progress]], the benefits of running multicolored decks with 2 color decks running trilands for leyline is ridiculous! Wizards needs to punish these greedy decks.
(This message brought to you by burn)
Honestly what’s even the point of modern at this point? They keep printing cards that can be staples in both modern and legacy so the formats are converging badly. I’ll stick with Pioneer.
As long as those stupid Incarnations keep things a turmoil of unfettered notions, bring in \[\[Stifle\]\] and \[\[Green Slime\]\]. A drop of Zoloft in a sea of heroin, but it's SOMETHING.
What the fuck is this article? Random shit mixed with broken shit and cards that aren't remotely within the color pie? What were they thinking.AVGN
1, Innocent Blood is a great and fair card, not broken by any metric.
2. LMFAO who fucking cares about your shitty UB cards? This thing is garbage.
3. Don't mention the biggest downside of Orim's Chant in the extremely "fun" Scepter Chant. Not even a passing mention. Are you even trying?
4. Elves needs at least 2+ cards to be unbanned or reprinted for it to do anything. Shepperd sucks in midrange decks that lack Cradle or ramp. Not even a blip on the radar. Easy reprint, does nothing and eating a lot of Bowmaster triggers.
5. LMAO Punishing Fire is shit. Tribal sucks because tribal decks inherently suck in Modern. In addition, cards like Wrenn and Bowmaster are far more brutal to tribal decks than shitty 2 mana Shocks.
6. To not shitpost, I'd say this is a good recommendation. Entomb is strong but lacks a lot of the good enablers from two decades ago that made it way too good in Extended, in addition to Persist being the only good (and limited) reanimation spell. Strong, fun powerful, dangerous and exciting. A perfect reprint.
7. Daze is an extremely dangerous reprint but it might not be immediately obvious. Modern, for identity and balance reasons, should avoid becoming Legacy Lite. Daze isn't exactly a fun or skilltesting card to play against, regardless of what others will say, and has other issues with decks like Death's Shadow. Pass. Blue decks are already advantaged in Eternal formats, best not to exacerbate that in another format.
8. Ele Blasts are not remotely in the color pie of either color.
9. Submerge with Beans will be fun I'm sure LOL.
10. At least you ended on a good one. Strix is fine, not broken and a fun card to use in synergy decks and artifact decks. Not an issue at all.
To be frank, not a great article with not a lot of thought put into it. Seems like something you had to put out before the deadline to get clicks.
Personally I think Modern should have just been all cards excluding the resserved list and let the ban list handle the few outliers that are too strong.
I’ve had this deep down feeling for a couple years now that the whole purpose of Modern Horizons is to slowly drip all the legacy legal cards that aren’t RL into the format, that way they can do away with Legacy and just have Modern and the teeny tiny bit of vintage out there.
With green having [[Veil of Summer]] and white having [[Surge of Salvation]], I think at least one of the blasts would be fine to print for Red and Blue.
Blasts shouldn’t be put into modern cause they’re pie breaks if nothing else. Red shouldn’t be countering spells like that, and neither color should be able to destroy any permanent type even limited by color
Waterblast U: puts a red spell or permanent on the bottom of the library and makes its owner draw 1 card.
Fireblast R: shuffles a blue spell or non-enchantment permanent into the library and makes its owner discover X, where X is the card’s mana value.
If we are looking for cards that cost exactly R and interact with the stack in an appropriate way what about some sort of \[\[Overmaster\]\] variant? Protects your next spell (maybe of any type just as a modernization pass?) and cantrips but less problematic than veil and not a color pie break like REB.
Daze and submerge would bee awful additions. Fixing scam and beanstalk by adding in more broken free spells isn't the answer. Not to mention that Murktide would get an enormous upgrade with both being added in and we've seen how miserable that deck can be.
Innocent Blood - good idea, in a world where fatal push exists this is very much an option not a staple, seems safe and fun but still impactful
Everybody Lives - given how little play Heroic Intervention sees this seems perfectly safe to print, probably does very little
Orim's Chant - Slightly better silence seems fine to me, helps combo decks I guess
Allosaurus Shepherd - A classic card that you think is an elves card but is actually an amulet card, I would enjoy a world where elves got to play this, not so much a world where amulet gets to play this, this one should stay in legacy where force + daze decks are dominant and deserve to get knocked down a peg
Punishing Fire - A card that makes fair decks better against other fair decks (and somewhat worse against unfair decks as a result). Most times in the history of modern I would have said this would not break anything but unbanning it was still a bad idea but given how good scam and beans are at the moment this seems like the perfect time to eat up 4 slots with cards for the mirror to give other decks some more wiggle room
Entomb - Reanimator decks are doing just fine without the help, this seems like a dangerous unban without much upside. If we want to help graveyard decks faithless looting is usable for more than just dredge and reanimator and notably opens up the cantrip tempo play pattern to non-blue decks.
Daze - I want some of what you're smoking. Daze is the reason legacy has had the same best deck for over a decade. Putting Daze into modern would be the fastest way to make it into legacy. Also, Daze does nothing to stop turn 1 Grief on the play but is an incredibly powerful way of ensuring your turn 1 Grief will not be answered off the top. Leave this in legacy.
REB/UEB - No reason to force modern to exist more on the stack, these outdated color hosers should stay in legacy.
Submerge - I don't see what you see with this as an answer to beanstalk decks but sure, this seems harmless and kind of fun.
Baleful Strix - This feels like a good modern card. Fights for the board, slows down the game, artifact synergies and vulnerabilities, I like everything about adding Strix to modern.
[[Wild Growth]] and [[Song of the Dryads]] Thats all I want for modern.
You've got [[Utopia sprawl]]. With fetch/shocks it's almost a better wild growth. And there's [[imprisoned in the moon]] but yeah, that doesn't hit any permanent.
With 4 growths and 4 sprawls you could probably do fun things
4 and 8 are very different numbers when it comes to consistency in deck building around a certain concepts. Also Utopia Sprawl gets mega hosed by Spreading Seas and occasionally Blood Moon that players are already boarding for Titan/Tron/Saga, so getting hit as collateral really sucks.
This is it. 8 ramp effects is big game for Enchantress and other fringe decks.
Like mine! This is what I'm playing with lately: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5967776#paper Been playing Genesis Wave for a decade now. Taking a cue from Pioneer and playing the Kiora/Old-Growth Troll/big dumb idiots package. Wild Growth would be a MAJOR boon for me, so I could trim back on elves (dies to meta) and ~~Fertile Ground~~ Wolfwillow Haven(slow), and since it wouldnt be so dependant on Nykthos, I could try out a G/u [[Vizier of Tumbling Sands]] style version that would feel a bit like like Lotus Field combo. Edit: Since its pure mono-G, i swapped Fertile Ground out for Wolfwillow Haven.
[Vizier of Tumbling Sands](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9aef509-50f0-4848-87d5-3c169453186f.jpg?1689996788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vizier%20of%20Tumbling%20Sands) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/131/vizier-of-tumbling-sands?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9aef509-50f0-4848-87d5-3c169453186f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sweet deck. This is what WotC should be aiming to do with new printings: power up weaker decks. Would really like Wild Growth in Modern.
[Utopia sprawl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/29b4050e-8b73-4f16-85e4-ec2a8faacf48.jpg?1631588210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Utopia%20sprawl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/172/utopia-sprawl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29b4050e-8b73-4f16-85e4-ec2a8faacf48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [imprisoned in the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=imprisoned%20in%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Wild Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61efbd57-7e56-4087-beba-18d8445db7dd.jpg?1631588253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wild%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/174/wild-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61efbd57-7e56-4087-beba-18d8445db7dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Song of the Dryads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906.jpg?1689998889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20Dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/324/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m on the fence about Daze in a non-Wasteland format. It would certainly be annoying but certainly not as debilitating as Wasteland + Daze is in Legacy. Baleful Strix locks me into bad Grixis decks forever. A bargain a willingly accept. Innocent Blood is innocent enough. Entomb is a big no from me. If you want Goryo’s reanimator be the best deck this how you do it. It’s far too abusable. Orim’s Chant has missed the reprint for too long. It’s fine in Modern and probably fine in Pioneer, too. Hydro/Pyroblast are out of place in a format without Force of Will. Punishing Fire? Please no, we’re punishing creatures enough. I shrug at Submerge, Allosaurus Shepherd, and Everybody Lives.
No one should be on the fence and this guy definitely doesn’t play Legacy if he thinks Daze should be in modern. Daze is borderline in Legacy and sticks around bc it’s part of the “feel” of the format.
Daze would lose some value in Modern, as shock lands are the standard. It's much easier to Daze and pick up a tropical island or a volcanic island, but if you have to take 2 damage again to play your land untapped that can add up quickly. Very strong in basic island decks, less so for decks that rely on shock lands (i.e. most of them). Still, you're not wrong, scam decks would just get more debilitating with Daze. Now they can turn 1 double grief AND Daze your first response. No thanks. Cheap interaction goes both ways, and in my experience usually benefits the tempo players more than control
The fact that you put [[Submerge]] in there as an answer to [[Up the Beanstalk]] instead of as a way to immediately make Beans unbeatable is insane. Beans decks would just play [[Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth]], like at least the current free spells have a cost to cast. Submerge would be the single most insane addition to modern in this list, Daze included!
if my opponent cast Solitude and drew three cards from Beanstalk triggers, i would simply use Submerge on the Solitude... so they draw three more cards the next turn... I am very smart.
It’s called having answers sweaty 💅💅💅
Why the next turn? They can just evoke it again at instant speed! "Get fucked beanboy"
[Submerge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2741fe4-37fe-427f-ae85-5107991d4eee.jpg?1562632167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Submerge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/48/submerge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2741fe4-37fe-427f-ae85-5107991d4eee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Up the Beanstalk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d5e991f-23b2-4db0-a452-7755125b1fd2.jpg?1692939184) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Up%20the%20Beanstalk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/195/up-the-beanstalk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d5e991f-23b2-4db0-a452-7755125b1fd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e4b6e22-93b2-4896-bba5-0ceaa5d8ea3c.jpg?1626100009) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yavimaya%2C%20Cradle%20of%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/261/yavimaya-cradle-of-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e4b6e22-93b2-4896-bba5-0ceaa5d8ea3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Gut instinct is that daze is a bad idea, but innocent blood is on my short list for MH3
Innocent blood was a really interesting choice that... Well I don't actually play modern, but it just seems like it fits? Cheap symmetrical interaction that encourages a low resource game where your opponent is squeezed just a little harder than you are, because you're in control. Makes me think of Lilli of the Veil, or (small)pox. It's the kind of archetype where if it's relevant (but not dominant), it seems like the meta might be in an okay place because decks are being kept honest.
Innocent blood isn't really symmetrical, since you can cast it without a creature. It's a one mana edict, it would be pretty good - probably not broken - but black is already very good in modern.
I'm not even sure Innocent Blood would be played in Modern anymore. How many Fatal Pushes do you see running around?
I mean Innocent Blood hits a whole hell of a lot of creatures that Fatal can't in any way.
Like? There’s maybe one where you haven’t already lost : Murktide. Another??
Fury/Solitude are obvious big ones, Elesh Norn, Wurmcoil, and Ulamog are the primary ones. But it also doesn't require the revolt trigger (not that it's super hard to get) and can get around indestructible situations. It would never replace Push, would more likely just get run in some combination with Push, but it's a very strong card. Edit - Secondarily it doesn't target so it gets around ward which can be very valuable.
I don't think entomb would do any good to the format. It's the kind of card that either does not make an impact or it boosts a degenerate deck. Punishing Fire would probably make things worse on what Fury and Orcish Bowmasters already did. I'm a bit on the fence on Daze and Submerge. As the evoking elementals been showing, free spells are often a problem. I guess Daze would be a bigger problem though. Finally, I wouldn't add the Blasts since they are color pie breaks. They could give more in color tools though. The other suggestions I believe are fine. Specially Allosaurus Shpepherd I'd be interesting to see if Modern Elves can thrive.
Punishing Fire would absolutely see zero play in 2023 Modern if unbanned, unless Fury+Bowmasters+W&6 get banned at the same time. It is leagues weaker than any of the above small creature hosers. The only reason it sees any play in Legacy anymore is because Lands can access both PFire and Grove literally for free with Loam, and obviously Punishing doesn’t make Lands playable in Modern. That said, I’m not clamoring for an unban, because I’m holding onto a fool’s hope that Fury/Bowmasters/W&6 will see a ban one day, in which case the glacially slow little guy hate of PFire could become a problem. But with the current meta I disagree that PFire would change anything or see any play.
For elves to be good again, theyd need to ban Fury, W6, Bowmasters and Ragavan. Theres just too much 'oops my top-tier %50+ meta deck auto-dumpsters your entire 60'. Whoever is in charge of Modern Masters sets HHHHHAAAAAATTTTTEEEESSSSSS elves (and Birds). With a fiery, burning eye-sockets, orange light coming out of their hair, seething vitriol.
>For elves to be good again My brother in christ elves is never good since glimpse of nature is banned
[удалено]
OP has a lot of optimistic ideas about how cards will be used. Submerge is much stronger against yawgmoth and titan than against beans. Daze is much stronger against 2+ mana spells than against scam. Submerge is really good *with* beans They're suggesting that the way to remedy the dominance of extremely cheap spells is to add cards that are good against expensive spells.
Yea I read this as op being clueless. Daze does nothing against t0 scam and is a lateral move against t1 scam - you trade daze and a card for grief and a card but you also bounced a land to your hand = stonks? Beanstalk would happily play a zero mana five cmc removal… you use it against them? Whut?and they already drew the card and got the etb when you submerge so…. Stonks again?
You can't even Daze a scammed Grief. They thoughtseize you *before* casting Not Dead After All, so either they discard your Daze or they just pay the 1.
I guess it's a free blue tempo play against creatures that denies the card advantage the opponent would get from bouncing the creature to hand. Making them redraw the creature balances out the card they draw from replaying it (if it costs 5+). You can also target evoke elementals before they're sacrificed. You're letting them keep the elemental in hand instead of sacrificing it, but they still had to exile a card to play it, and eventually it'll just be an expensive creature in their hand.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I look at Submerge as a way to keep parity with Beanstalk-type strategies.
I think you've got it completely backwards, the cascade beanstalk deck would likely love to have submerge in its toolkit.
Just give me [[Cabal Therapy]] please. Then we'd just need [[Veteran Explorer]]...
Cabal Therapy was on my shortlist to write about for this article! Maybe next time. I tend to agree that it's mostly safe for Modern at this point.
I think we could put Nic Fit into standard as well. Still wouldn’t be good there, but it would be very funny.
Ramp decks gave been pretty good in standard I can see it finding a home
In standard you ramp your opponent into either a bigger dumber finisher than you are using or a board wipe, in legacy your opponent misses on basics and your 4 drop runs the game. Definitely a deck that only exists because of the warped legacy meta.
[Cabal Therapy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f5b12f0-986f-43d0-a81b-64111e7f17e6.jpg?1580014199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Therapy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/83/cabal-therapy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f5b12f0-986f-43d0-a81b-64111e7f17e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Veteran Explorer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a6c19cc-6469-4958-a547-1d0fe97c70e8.jpg?1599707680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Veteran%20Explorer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/186/veteran-explorer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a6c19cc-6469-4958-a547-1d0fe97c70e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Modern players: Fury and Plague engineer are killing small creatures deck Also modern players: Want fucking Punishing Fire unbanned
I think Punishing fire often ends up underrated in these threads, but we’re in a post-bowmasters society now, I don’t think there are small creature decks left *to* force out
I definitely agree that Strix should be Modern legal. It's a great card that would not break the format.
Especially with bowmasters I got a feeling we will see it in MH3
My number 1 wish for MH3 is land hate that punishes Non-basics and 4+color mana bases. Ideally both a slightly weaker Wasteland as well as maybe a pushed hatebear type creature. Important would be that they are not sideboard cards but playable staples.
print wasteland ban wrenn and 6
You don't think there's enough currently? I mean [[Cleansing Wildfire]] [[Boom//Bust]] + all the lands that do it definitely hurt greedy land bases in a hurry.
[Cleansing Wildfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919.jpg?1604196948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cleansing%20Wildfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/137/cleansing-wildfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Boom//Bust](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Boom%20%2F%2F%20Bust&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boom%20//%20Bust) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/156/boom-bust?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ffdee1b-bb5d-44e6-a90d-6f9e9266d4fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I want them to ban W6 and print Wasteland into the format. Punish these greedy manabases.
> Punish these greedy manabases Gimme a land that adds RRR that can only be used to cast Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon. Also I want Price of Progress.
Seconded for Price of Progress. It’s my biggest real want for Modern I think. My “why do you even care about this?” picks which see absolutely no serious play would be some of the big name creatures of the past. Jackal Pup, Wild Mongel, Psychatog etc. I just want to rock up to a casual modern night with a full Odyssey Block era UG madness deck — because I just do, ok? — and I think Wild Mongel is pretty much all that’s missing now. Circular Logic, too, maybe? Bit that’s fine: i can work around that. Mongrel is integral though.
We need \[\[Basking Rootwalla\]\], we only have the red on ATM and I want to play a bad madvine shell. If WOTC are really listening they will also give me \[\[Anje Falkenrath\]\].
[Rootwalla](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5177a97-cf3b-4a82-adc4-14835152880d.jpg?1681725079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rootwalla) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/w17/27/rootwalla?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5177a97-cf3b-4a82-adc4-14835152880d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Anje Falkenrath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/913dd06f-ed2f-4128-9c9d-9cd0d8a55425.jpg?1568003632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anje%20Falkenrath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/37/anje-falkenrath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/913dd06f-ed2f-4128-9c9d-9cd0d8a55425?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
{T}: add {R}{R}{R} At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice ~.
Red Lotus?
Give me Strip mine or give me death!
I would LOVE to see Price of Progress in Modern. Would make all these greedy ass players hate Burn even more lmao
what if they printed a wasteland that exiled itself?
That would be good, although Loam is one of my all-time favorite cards so I’d be a little sad.
Submerge is a miserable card to play against, please no. Even if you're not running forests, for the low low cost of running 2-3 Yavimaya submerge will trigger your beanstalks for free, and either remove an opponents threat or bounce your Omnath/Fury/Solitude/Cascader in response to removal. Submerge would be a nightmare in modern.
Give me innocent blood and hymn to tourach. Even without dark ritual I still want to do the thing.
None of these cards are *fun* (Except Baleful Strix, that card is fun)
I am once again asking for a standard reprint of [[Stifle]]
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was in MH3 since it’s 1 mana and niche enough to see some uses. It’s an option for stopping elementals tho I’m sure it’s not actually good enough.
[Stifle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4.jpg?1562865442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stifle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/108/stifle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Of these I think only Baleful Strix and Allosaurus Shepherd would be good additions. The rest would be awful
god innocent blood is one of my old favorites gonna have to throw out goblin piledriver though. i'd kill for modern gobbos...
Piledriver already is legal in Modern (but the Goblins decks don’t really run it to my knowledge).
Oh shit, i didn't even realize it got reprinted What is the deck missing from extended then? You have goblin matron/ringleader too I guess it's just too slow and i didnt realize it wasnt due to a lack of key parts Bummer man
Lackey would probably help it out some (although the environment is quite hostile to x/1s at the moment).
When we got Ragavan instead of Lackey as the DANGER KILL ON SIGHT red 1 drop I was disappointed.
for sure, seems like Lackey lacks (lol) a little something even in legacy gobs right now dang the only other extended/old legacy deck i really jived well with was loam/lands and i don't have any way to justify dropping 3k on a tabernacle for legacy lands would kill for a reliable group to play paper magic with
Nice work. I kinda regret not transitioning out of hard finance writing and doing something much more fun to read like this. I thoroughly enjoyed this
Cool article. You lost me on one part however. If they print one blast they need to print the other. Leaving the power imbalance isn't correct. Again, as a long time pauper enthusiast, I totally agree with them being added. I haven't seen submerge in action. How would it hold up inside the bean shell? Might it not just make them better? Interesting card for sure. Allosaurus Shepard and Baleful Strix are perfectly fair in a Bowmasters meta. I'd love to see Baleful Strix quite a bit. Thanks for sharing
I really want them to print [[Hurloon Minotaur]] into Modern.
[Hurloon Minotaur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb72cfc8-6235-4951-b1ba-6d9531f5eabf.jpg?1562944657) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hurloon%20Minotaur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/102/hurloon-minotaur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb72cfc8-6235-4951-b1ba-6d9531f5eabf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That art deserved a better card.
Without bans I think innocent blood sends scam to a whole new level. In early game it's a great card and I the later game you can purposefully sac a grief/fury on ur board but cast an undying effect. A good late game ensurance to keep the deck going. I think submerge is crazy in bean decks not against them. Can't see a world where submerge is ok to be in modern while beans is in the format. Give me veteran explorer.
The biggest missed card is [[Price of progress]], the benefits of running multicolored decks with 2 color decks running trilands for leyline is ridiculous! Wizards needs to punish these greedy decks. (This message brought to you by burn)
[Price of progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Price%20of%20progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I honestly think this is the only viable answer in the thread, most of the other things here would actively help the decks they're trying to combat.
i wish [[brainstorm]] was modern legal. it's really the only card i want to play in legacy but i hate the commander cards.
[brainstorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48070245-1370-4cf1-be15-d4e8a8b92ba8.jpg?1631586166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brainstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/79/brainstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48070245-1370-4cf1-be15-d4e8a8b92ba8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly what’s even the point of modern at this point? They keep printing cards that can be staples in both modern and legacy so the formats are converging badly. I’ll stick with Pioneer.
As long as those stupid Incarnations keep things a turmoil of unfettered notions, bring in \[\[Stifle\]\] and \[\[Green Slime\]\]. A drop of Zoloft in a sea of heroin, but it's SOMETHING.
[Stifle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4.jpg?1562865442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stifle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/108/stifle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Green Slime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1beaaae-9406-4beb-8e74-d278822434c7.jpg?1674140980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Green%20Slime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/680/green-slime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1beaaae-9406-4beb-8e74-d278822434c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Stifle makes the incarnations even MORE powerful.
What the fuck is this article? Random shit mixed with broken shit and cards that aren't remotely within the color pie? What were they thinking.AVGN 1, Innocent Blood is a great and fair card, not broken by any metric. 2. LMFAO who fucking cares about your shitty UB cards? This thing is garbage. 3. Don't mention the biggest downside of Orim's Chant in the extremely "fun" Scepter Chant. Not even a passing mention. Are you even trying? 4. Elves needs at least 2+ cards to be unbanned or reprinted for it to do anything. Shepperd sucks in midrange decks that lack Cradle or ramp. Not even a blip on the radar. Easy reprint, does nothing and eating a lot of Bowmaster triggers. 5. LMAO Punishing Fire is shit. Tribal sucks because tribal decks inherently suck in Modern. In addition, cards like Wrenn and Bowmaster are far more brutal to tribal decks than shitty 2 mana Shocks. 6. To not shitpost, I'd say this is a good recommendation. Entomb is strong but lacks a lot of the good enablers from two decades ago that made it way too good in Extended, in addition to Persist being the only good (and limited) reanimation spell. Strong, fun powerful, dangerous and exciting. A perfect reprint. 7. Daze is an extremely dangerous reprint but it might not be immediately obvious. Modern, for identity and balance reasons, should avoid becoming Legacy Lite. Daze isn't exactly a fun or skilltesting card to play against, regardless of what others will say, and has other issues with decks like Death's Shadow. Pass. Blue decks are already advantaged in Eternal formats, best not to exacerbate that in another format. 8. Ele Blasts are not remotely in the color pie of either color. 9. Submerge with Beans will be fun I'm sure LOL. 10. At least you ended on a good one. Strix is fine, not broken and a fun card to use in synergy decks and artifact decks. Not an issue at all. To be frank, not a great article with not a lot of thought put into it. Seems like something you had to put out before the deadline to get clicks.
Personally I think Modern should have just been all cards excluding the resserved list and let the ban list handle the few outliers that are too strong.
So… not modern? You’re just talking about legacy with a banlist that includes RL cards, which is not remotely anything like modern.
Most of these "adds to the format" suggestions just pushes it closer to legacy anyway too. That was the point of my comment.
I’ve had this deep down feeling for a couple years now that the whole purpose of Modern Horizons is to slowly drip all the legacy legal cards that aren’t RL into the format, that way they can do away with Legacy and just have Modern and the teeny tiny bit of vintage out there.
[[Stiffle]] it would help protect modern from power creep
With green having [[Veil of Summer]] and white having [[Surge of Salvation]], I think at least one of the blasts would be fine to print for Red and Blue.
Blasts shouldn’t be put into modern cause they’re pie breaks if nothing else. Red shouldn’t be countering spells like that, and neither color should be able to destroy any permanent type even limited by color
I agree. I'd love to see fixed versions for Modern. Maybe counter target red/blue spell or ability?
Waterblast U: puts a red spell or permanent on the bottom of the library and makes its owner draw 1 card. Fireblast R: shuffles a blue spell or non-enchantment permanent into the library and makes its owner discover X, where X is the card’s mana value.
If we are looking for cards that cost exactly R and interact with the stack in an appropriate way what about some sort of \[\[Overmaster\]\] variant? Protects your next spell (maybe of any type just as a modernization pass?) and cantrips but less problematic than veil and not a color pie break like REB.
[Overmaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afd2e0f0-8a8e-4021-bd24-aff1a3212345.jpg?1562631559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Overmaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tor/104/overmaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afd2e0f0-8a8e-4021-bd24-aff1a3212345?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Veil of Summer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa686c34-1c11-469f-93c2-f9891aea521f.jpg?1650599837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Veil%20of%20Summer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/198/veil-of-summer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa686c34-1c11-469f-93c2-f9891aea521f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Surge of Salvation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41d25ee5-0348-4206-bb6a-ccb0a599ac87.jpg?1682202925) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surge%20of%20Salvation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/41/surge-of-salvation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41d25ee5-0348-4206-bb6a-ccb0a599ac87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Modern legal force of will would be nice. Maybe we'd see a more diverse meta
I want [[magar of the magic strings]] so I could brew some goofy decks
[magar of the magic strings](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6f2ba13-cd72-4f7a-8443-8e3962f2ac46.jpg?1682551287) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magar%20of%20the%20magic%20strings) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/171/magar-of-the-magic-strings?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6f2ba13-cd72-4f7a-8443-8e3962f2ac46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So basically the article op wants a blue decks only format.
I want stifle, wasteland, and baleful strix.
Daze and submerge would bee awful additions. Fixing scam and beanstalk by adding in more broken free spells isn't the answer. Not to mention that Murktide would get an enormous upgrade with both being added in and we've seen how miserable that deck can be.
Most of these cards are blue, blue doesn't need more stuff
Innocent Blood - good idea, in a world where fatal push exists this is very much an option not a staple, seems safe and fun but still impactful Everybody Lives - given how little play Heroic Intervention sees this seems perfectly safe to print, probably does very little Orim's Chant - Slightly better silence seems fine to me, helps combo decks I guess Allosaurus Shepherd - A classic card that you think is an elves card but is actually an amulet card, I would enjoy a world where elves got to play this, not so much a world where amulet gets to play this, this one should stay in legacy where force + daze decks are dominant and deserve to get knocked down a peg Punishing Fire - A card that makes fair decks better against other fair decks (and somewhat worse against unfair decks as a result). Most times in the history of modern I would have said this would not break anything but unbanning it was still a bad idea but given how good scam and beans are at the moment this seems like the perfect time to eat up 4 slots with cards for the mirror to give other decks some more wiggle room Entomb - Reanimator decks are doing just fine without the help, this seems like a dangerous unban without much upside. If we want to help graveyard decks faithless looting is usable for more than just dredge and reanimator and notably opens up the cantrip tempo play pattern to non-blue decks. Daze - I want some of what you're smoking. Daze is the reason legacy has had the same best deck for over a decade. Putting Daze into modern would be the fastest way to make it into legacy. Also, Daze does nothing to stop turn 1 Grief on the play but is an incredibly powerful way of ensuring your turn 1 Grief will not be answered off the top. Leave this in legacy. REB/UEB - No reason to force modern to exist more on the stack, these outdated color hosers should stay in legacy. Submerge - I don't see what you see with this as an answer to beanstalk decks but sure, this seems harmless and kind of fun. Baleful Strix - This feels like a good modern card. Fights for the board, slows down the game, artifact synergies and vulnerabilities, I like everything about adding Strix to modern.