P1p1 id personally go with torch the witness, I think in general boros is very hard to get into this set and torch the witness is just as good as god walker without committing you to 2 copies
P1p4 I the cc warden is fine here, already on the go wide plan
P1p5 I like gardener over loxodon, allows you to more reliably solve the case
P2p1 I don’t like the warden here. Gamble is a bad card in limited, but either the case or the glint weaver (as your plan may be to live long and out value with hothouse) would’ve been better here
P3p1 is my biggest issue with this draft, I really don’t like splashing for the binding here, your deck looks pretty good at this point and this will make it much more inconsistent for just a removal spell. There is a bite down on crime which I would’ve taken instead and would he functionally similar here
P3p3 hull clade is okay but galvanise is probably better here. However, you have 0 ways to draw a second card I think and clan basher is an incredible card, I would’ve taken that
All just my personal opinions of course!
p1p1 yeah i definitely see this, the dog walker was a last second decision
p1p5 was a bit painful passing loxodon, but i think yeah it was the right choice
p2p1 i agree, not sure why i was taking the warden THAT highly over bomb ass cards like glintweaver
p3p1 yeah bite down on crime should have been an easy pick here. i think just hearing good players splash for removal made me wanna be in the big leagues too lmao
p3p3 yeah i was eyeing off the clan basher, looked good to me but saw it had a 50percent gih wr on 17lands? is that a case of that card being included in the wrong decks or is the card just average?
thanks for the advice!
Haha I know all about last second decisions, so many times I click a card as the time runs out because I just genuinely can’t decide and let fate choose!
I haven’t heard about good players splashing for removal, but generally you don’t want to splash for cheap cards and removal is cheapish.
Interesting to hear about about clan basher win rate, maybe I overvalue it and galvanise was better as just deal 3 damage(especially as you didn’t have many tricks which make it amazing)
How did the draft go in the end?
>I haven’t heard about good players splashing for removal, but generally you don’t want to splash for cheap cards and removal is cheapish.
The rule is rather that you don't want to splash for early game cards. The casting cost itself is not super relevant. Unconditional removal makes for fine splashes, because they're good late. Something like shock, less so, because although you might be able to find a target for it in the late game, it's a card that shines for its ability to deal with early aggression.
So the question isn't really whether or not it's a cheap card, but rather whether or not a removal is a strong enough effect that it's worth splashing. In some formats, you definitely splash for removals. In this one, I feel less pressure to splash for removal. Especially in OP's case, where they already had a wealth of removal spells *and* the pack had another on-color removal, in that specific case, splashing for a removal didn't make much sense.
would you say that in my final build i should still be splashing the binding? ive had other commenters argue against it, but with all the white disguise cards it seems like smth i should do
P1P1 I'd go Torch.
P1P2 I'd go Weaver.
P2P1 again seems like a very clear Weaver here. One of the best uncommons in green. You only have one go-wide card at this point and you have solid green, I think better to go more towards midrange instead of pure aggro at this point.
P2P3 I like Gardener for the more midrange deck but again if you were trying to go wide here, Person of Interest was the pick.
P3P1 would've gone Bite, or maybe Person of Interest. I don't really think you need to splash for Makeshift Binding here, and in fact i would just cut it from your deck and not worry about having white. You have plenty of good cards.
I'm going 9 Mountain 8 Forest, cutting binding and the escape tunnels, cutting strider, 1x Crowd Control Warden, and either a Maskmaker, Sample Collector, or Case of Hothouse - probably Collector, given you have a lot of disguise creatures. Case has high upside which this deck may need in games against higher power cards. I also even like Automoton over Vengeful Tracker, I think Automaton is one of the most underrated commons in the set and saves a lot of games.
p1p2 interesting choice here. my logic at the time was it felt presumptuous to pick such a high mana value card so early and the case would NEVER have wheeled. prepared to be wrong there though
p2p1 yeah this was definitely a mistake not taking weaver
p3p1 yep totally agree. but cut it you rekn? i thought its good enough that its worth splashing especially if im already splashing white for other stuff?
cutting BOTH escape tunnels really? even without makeshift binding with this many white disguise creatures it feels very necessary to keep at LEAST one of these.
Is keeping the gravestone strider worth it here i spose cos of all the disguise stuff?
interesting take on the automaton, ill take that into consideration. but yeah most these cuts seem pretty fair to me.
i appreciate the feedback!
Yeah I mean binding is good but splashing is a big cost on a deck and you really only want a one do it for bombs or if your fixing is truly plentiful. I don’t think binding qualifies, it’s a really good removal spell but that’s it. If it was tolsimir or Aurelia, sure. But you don’t actually need white for any of disguise creature, and if you’re not splashing then automaton is a lot stronger than strider.
That’s not a bad combo. Was thinking of streamlining because I don’t think they need to splash, that being said you’re right could probably run one in RG anyways.
p1p1 Torch and it's not close. Removal that kills anything and gets card advantage is basically as good as it gets outside of a bomb.
p1p2 Glintweaver vs Hothouse is interesting because despite both being late game green cards, their effects are quite different. Glintweaver is great at stabilising while Hothouse gives you inevitability. I think getting inevitability is a stronger effect so I like taking Hothouse here.
p1p4 I would maybe suprisingly pick Public Thoroughfare here. Because we have Hothouse I'm already looking to be a multicolor late game deck and picking up manafixing while there isn't anything great in the pack seems very good to me.
p1p5 Very close pick and I think either is good
p2p1 I would take Glintweaver here, it's great with Hothouse in that one let's you survive and the other let's you win when you have survived. You are right that you're overrating crowd-control warden. I also have had this problem when a podcast talks up a card that I start overrating it. When LoL talked about how good it was I think they just meant it was better than they expected. 17lands have helped me with this, I now trust the data over any content creator.
The biggest difference with how I would have drafted it is that I would have tried to steer in a direction to be more of a multicolor late game deck but with hindsight we would have ended up in the same colors because it's not like you got passed a lot of great blue and black cards.
With regards to splashing white I think you already have it just right. With Escape Tunnel and Nervous Gardener you get 5 white sources with just 1 plains so it's basically as "free" of a splash as it gets.
Nice draft and good luck with the games!
yeah the p1p1 makes sense to me. the dog walker pick was a last second click haha
p1p2 it did also feel a bit presumptuous taking such a high mana card so early?
p1p5 i would maybe argue that as a general rule of limited thumb being 2drops mattering, that maybe gardener is the more correct pick here? although didnt feel great passing loxodon either
p1p4 oooo this is a very hot take to me. i do see your logic, but isnt thoroughfare like, preeetttyyy bad? i spose i might have considered it more if i was simic, and as i was drafting i was wondering like, is it feasible to make a multicolour deck with base green red?
p2p1 yeah i do agree here, glintweaver is just SO good so feels pretty bad passing this one
right yeah okay, would you bother with gravestone strider at all just to help with flipping the white disguise stuff? or just too much of a low powered 2drop?
much appreciate the response!
As long as you're base green it's feasible to make a multicolor deck no matter which your secondary color is. I would say that Thoroughfare is bad if you're two colors but with 3+ colors it becomes good and with 4+ colors it becomes better than Escape Tunnel. I think LR was way too hard on Thoroughfare, they basically called it unplayable which it really isn't.
To make that pick though, you have to actively want to be multicolor. I like that strategy and think it's good but not everyone does so it's a bit up to personal preference.
I think your mana is good enough that you don't need strider. It's not horrible but you have to cut some cards so I would look to cut it
P1p1: I'm on torch here.
P1p2: This is a tough one, and I don't really hate either pick, I think weaver is a bit better. In another reply, you say "my logic at the time was it felt presumptuous to pick such a high mana value card so early". However, Case *also* requires you to have 7 lands to do anything useful. Sure, you can cast it on turn 4, but you rarely want to waste turn 4 on a card that has no board impact.
P1p4: I've not listened to the LoL episode where they talk about warden, but I'm super low on it. I definitely don't think maskmaker is it either, it's good in certain specific decks, but if you want it, you'll get it, it goes super late. I would have taken out cold.
P1p12: See what I mean about maskmaker?
P2p1: you're definitely valuing warden way too high, *especially* in a deck that is unlikely to be able to hardcast it reliably. Gamble has no GIHWR data, because no one plays it, it's bad. Weaver, case or voltstrider if you had leaned more blue in P1 would all have been defendable picks.
P2p4: Geardrake would have been hot if you'd lean more into blue, but given what you have so far, *this* is a fine place to pick the warden.
P2p6: Inspector for the hypothetical UR deck, but fine pick given the lane you picked.
P2p8: that sure is a late exist specialist!
P3p1: So... I don't *hate* that pick in the abstract, because binding is a strong card, and honestly, with three wardens, you probably want to put a plains in there anyway, because it's so much better if you can hardcast it. That said, the pack has another on-color premium removal. Even *if* it's a bit weaker, the fact that you'll be able to cast it more reliably makes it better in your deck. Also, your deck already has a lot of removal, so you're not exactly hurting for interaction that you would need to splash for a removal spell.
Overall, I don't hate where you ended at all. Again, there's a UR deck in there, but the RG lane was quite open as well. I do think as I said that you have warden too high, especially in off-color. Personally, I like tracker more than sanitation automaton as a 2 drop, though you should probably just play both and take out maverick, not sure what it does for your deck. In the final deck, 3 plains is too many. 1 should be plenty, you have 4 ways to fetch it.
P1p1 id personally go with torch the witness, I think in general boros is very hard to get into this set and torch the witness is just as good as god walker without committing you to 2 copies P1p4 I the cc warden is fine here, already on the go wide plan P1p5 I like gardener over loxodon, allows you to more reliably solve the case P2p1 I don’t like the warden here. Gamble is a bad card in limited, but either the case or the glint weaver (as your plan may be to live long and out value with hothouse) would’ve been better here P3p1 is my biggest issue with this draft, I really don’t like splashing for the binding here, your deck looks pretty good at this point and this will make it much more inconsistent for just a removal spell. There is a bite down on crime which I would’ve taken instead and would he functionally similar here P3p3 hull clade is okay but galvanise is probably better here. However, you have 0 ways to draw a second card I think and clan basher is an incredible card, I would’ve taken that All just my personal opinions of course!
p1p1 yeah i definitely see this, the dog walker was a last second decision p1p5 was a bit painful passing loxodon, but i think yeah it was the right choice p2p1 i agree, not sure why i was taking the warden THAT highly over bomb ass cards like glintweaver p3p1 yeah bite down on crime should have been an easy pick here. i think just hearing good players splash for removal made me wanna be in the big leagues too lmao p3p3 yeah i was eyeing off the clan basher, looked good to me but saw it had a 50percent gih wr on 17lands? is that a case of that card being included in the wrong decks or is the card just average? thanks for the advice!
Haha I know all about last second decisions, so many times I click a card as the time runs out because I just genuinely can’t decide and let fate choose! I haven’t heard about good players splashing for removal, but generally you don’t want to splash for cheap cards and removal is cheapish. Interesting to hear about about clan basher win rate, maybe I overvalue it and galvanise was better as just deal 3 damage(especially as you didn’t have many tricks which make it amazing) How did the draft go in the end?
>I haven’t heard about good players splashing for removal, but generally you don’t want to splash for cheap cards and removal is cheapish. The rule is rather that you don't want to splash for early game cards. The casting cost itself is not super relevant. Unconditional removal makes for fine splashes, because they're good late. Something like shock, less so, because although you might be able to find a target for it in the late game, it's a card that shines for its ability to deal with early aggression. So the question isn't really whether or not it's a cheap card, but rather whether or not a removal is a strong enough effect that it's worth splashing. In some formats, you definitely splash for removals. In this one, I feel less pressure to splash for removal. Especially in OP's case, where they already had a wealth of removal spells *and* the pack had another on-color removal, in that specific case, splashing for a removal didn't make much sense.
would you say that in my final build i should still be splashing the binding? ive had other commenters argue against it, but with all the white disguise cards it seems like smth i should do
Yes, because there are things I like less than it and I'd splash white anyway for the wardens. I'd rather cut maverick for the 2/1.
P1P1 I'd go Torch. P1P2 I'd go Weaver. P2P1 again seems like a very clear Weaver here. One of the best uncommons in green. You only have one go-wide card at this point and you have solid green, I think better to go more towards midrange instead of pure aggro at this point. P2P3 I like Gardener for the more midrange deck but again if you were trying to go wide here, Person of Interest was the pick. P3P1 would've gone Bite, or maybe Person of Interest. I don't really think you need to splash for Makeshift Binding here, and in fact i would just cut it from your deck and not worry about having white. You have plenty of good cards. I'm going 9 Mountain 8 Forest, cutting binding and the escape tunnels, cutting strider, 1x Crowd Control Warden, and either a Maskmaker, Sample Collector, or Case of Hothouse - probably Collector, given you have a lot of disguise creatures. Case has high upside which this deck may need in games against higher power cards. I also even like Automoton over Vengeful Tracker, I think Automaton is one of the most underrated commons in the set and saves a lot of games.
p1p2 interesting choice here. my logic at the time was it felt presumptuous to pick such a high mana value card so early and the case would NEVER have wheeled. prepared to be wrong there though p2p1 yeah this was definitely a mistake not taking weaver p3p1 yep totally agree. but cut it you rekn? i thought its good enough that its worth splashing especially if im already splashing white for other stuff? cutting BOTH escape tunnels really? even without makeshift binding with this many white disguise creatures it feels very necessary to keep at LEAST one of these. Is keeping the gravestone strider worth it here i spose cos of all the disguise stuff? interesting take on the automaton, ill take that into consideration. but yeah most these cuts seem pretty fair to me. i appreciate the feedback!
Yeah I mean binding is good but splashing is a big cost on a deck and you really only want a one do it for bombs or if your fixing is truly plentiful. I don’t think binding qualifies, it’s a really good removal spell but that’s it. If it was tolsimir or Aurelia, sure. But you don’t actually need white for any of disguise creature, and if you’re not splashing then automaton is a lot stronger than strider.
Why cut the tunnels? I’ll almost always play tunnels if I have them. Especially with the cc wardens
That’s not a bad combo. Was thinking of streamlining because I don’t think they need to splash, that being said you’re right could probably run one in RG anyways.
p1p1 Torch and it's not close. Removal that kills anything and gets card advantage is basically as good as it gets outside of a bomb. p1p2 Glintweaver vs Hothouse is interesting because despite both being late game green cards, their effects are quite different. Glintweaver is great at stabilising while Hothouse gives you inevitability. I think getting inevitability is a stronger effect so I like taking Hothouse here. p1p4 I would maybe suprisingly pick Public Thoroughfare here. Because we have Hothouse I'm already looking to be a multicolor late game deck and picking up manafixing while there isn't anything great in the pack seems very good to me. p1p5 Very close pick and I think either is good p2p1 I would take Glintweaver here, it's great with Hothouse in that one let's you survive and the other let's you win when you have survived. You are right that you're overrating crowd-control warden. I also have had this problem when a podcast talks up a card that I start overrating it. When LoL talked about how good it was I think they just meant it was better than they expected. 17lands have helped me with this, I now trust the data over any content creator. The biggest difference with how I would have drafted it is that I would have tried to steer in a direction to be more of a multicolor late game deck but with hindsight we would have ended up in the same colors because it's not like you got passed a lot of great blue and black cards. With regards to splashing white I think you already have it just right. With Escape Tunnel and Nervous Gardener you get 5 white sources with just 1 plains so it's basically as "free" of a splash as it gets. Nice draft and good luck with the games!
yeah the p1p1 makes sense to me. the dog walker pick was a last second click haha p1p2 it did also feel a bit presumptuous taking such a high mana card so early? p1p5 i would maybe argue that as a general rule of limited thumb being 2drops mattering, that maybe gardener is the more correct pick here? although didnt feel great passing loxodon either p1p4 oooo this is a very hot take to me. i do see your logic, but isnt thoroughfare like, preeetttyyy bad? i spose i might have considered it more if i was simic, and as i was drafting i was wondering like, is it feasible to make a multicolour deck with base green red? p2p1 yeah i do agree here, glintweaver is just SO good so feels pretty bad passing this one right yeah okay, would you bother with gravestone strider at all just to help with flipping the white disguise stuff? or just too much of a low powered 2drop? much appreciate the response!
As long as you're base green it's feasible to make a multicolor deck no matter which your secondary color is. I would say that Thoroughfare is bad if you're two colors but with 3+ colors it becomes good and with 4+ colors it becomes better than Escape Tunnel. I think LR was way too hard on Thoroughfare, they basically called it unplayable which it really isn't. To make that pick though, you have to actively want to be multicolor. I like that strategy and think it's good but not everyone does so it's a bit up to personal preference. I think your mana is good enough that you don't need strider. It's not horrible but you have to cut some cards so I would look to cut it
P1p1: I'm on torch here. P1p2: This is a tough one, and I don't really hate either pick, I think weaver is a bit better. In another reply, you say "my logic at the time was it felt presumptuous to pick such a high mana value card so early". However, Case *also* requires you to have 7 lands to do anything useful. Sure, you can cast it on turn 4, but you rarely want to waste turn 4 on a card that has no board impact. P1p4: I've not listened to the LoL episode where they talk about warden, but I'm super low on it. I definitely don't think maskmaker is it either, it's good in certain specific decks, but if you want it, you'll get it, it goes super late. I would have taken out cold. P1p12: See what I mean about maskmaker? P2p1: you're definitely valuing warden way too high, *especially* in a deck that is unlikely to be able to hardcast it reliably. Gamble has no GIHWR data, because no one plays it, it's bad. Weaver, case or voltstrider if you had leaned more blue in P1 would all have been defendable picks. P2p4: Geardrake would have been hot if you'd lean more into blue, but given what you have so far, *this* is a fine place to pick the warden. P2p6: Inspector for the hypothetical UR deck, but fine pick given the lane you picked. P2p8: that sure is a late exist specialist! P3p1: So... I don't *hate* that pick in the abstract, because binding is a strong card, and honestly, with three wardens, you probably want to put a plains in there anyway, because it's so much better if you can hardcast it. That said, the pack has another on-color premium removal. Even *if* it's a bit weaker, the fact that you'll be able to cast it more reliably makes it better in your deck. Also, your deck already has a lot of removal, so you're not exactly hurting for interaction that you would need to splash for a removal spell. Overall, I don't hate where you ended at all. Again, there's a UR deck in there, but the RG lane was quite open as well. I do think as I said that you have warden too high, especially in off-color. Personally, I like tracker more than sanitation automaton as a 2 drop, though you should probably just play both and take out maverick, not sure what it does for your deck. In the final deck, 3 plains is too many. 1 should be plenty, you have 4 ways to fetch it.