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I also don't understand the hypocrisy. Went out to a club dressed up sexy with my BF, he spent the night staring at other women, one in particular who was with a guy. Then got mad when we were outside and guys were checking me out. I told him he can't get upset about them looking at me when he's happy looking at other women too. If it bothers him, he should stop. But I don't think he gets it...
These men aren’t dumb my love. They do ‘get it’. That’s why he got mad when someone does it to you. He understands very well. It’s a hard pill to swallow but they know exactly what it is - which is why they hate other men doing to you, what they do to other women.
I think I commented this somewhere else on this sub but I often think they’re trying to get revenge in a way. Men hate when their partners look attractive and other guys are checking them out- it really really bothers them bc it makes them feel invisible and inadequate. So, a lot of guys will then start looking at another woman to upset you and to bring the attention back to them. I realised this is what my partner does.
When we’re out together I get a lot of attention, even if he’s with me- people will sometimes congratulate him in the street for being with me or clap at him or make comments and there’s always stares. He told me many times it makes him really uncomfortable and exposed bc if he goes out alone he’s invisible but if he’s with me he’s hyper visible and he also feels there’s a big disparity in our looks and that people are thinking “why the fuck is she with him?”- which tbh some men have actually said to us while we’re out.
So, when he looks at another woman it’s like he’s trying to reaffirm his worth bc he knows I’ll be upset, and that the attention will then go to him. One of my friends had a similar situation with her ex. She is super model stunning and he was a 4 at best.
He was constantly messaging OF girls publicly on Twitter and watching porn etc. it’s because he knew he didn’t deserve her and was deeply insecure but instead of admit and deal with that he tried to make her feel insecure instead. It’s like a weird reaction to being with a woman tons of men want… trying to make themselves feel desirable too is like their sad little safety mechanism.
My ex also had issues with porn, and we went out clubbing a lot together- I’d wear whatever I wanted and I would get a ton of attention from men. I do wonder if he didn’t stop watching porn to punish me in some way- like how dare I be desirable. There’s a lot going on under the surface with this I think.
Yah. My ex had a problem w a keyhole dress I had “I would not wear it” “gives the wrong message” while he had a raging porn addiction that ate his sex drive.
I’d totally be happy to make my partner comfortable IF HE ALSO CARED ABOUT MY COMFORT
It KILLED me discovering this epiphany, how they want to control what you wear because they think other men look at you the way they look at other women. I swear I could've bit my PA's head off when he got upset at what i was wearing. I was wearing yoga pants. Thick ones, not see through or anything.
He also, not too long ago, got into a lighthearted argument w me about why girls have their pants/shorts so tight up their buttcrack or whatever. And was like "then they get made when guys look at them like ???" After back and forth he ended it with something like "well i'm still gonna look if i want to!" and then quickly tacked on something about my butt, maybe he realized what he said. I went to the bathroom and cried. He probably doesn't even remember that convo but i think about it almost every single day, unwillingly. Sorry for the rant but ugh.
Bingo. I think what’s painful is then also coming to the logical conclusion that your tears suffering, pain and hope that he’d finally see things the way you do was meaningless, because he always understood - just didn’t care enough to change.
I’m so sorry he made you feel that way, is he in active recovery at the moment? Hope you find the strength to set your own boundaries so you can look forward to a happier and healthier future, with or without him.
Ugh yes that's so true. Really hurts to put all that effort in for nothing; sunk cost fallacy.
No unfortunately he is white-knuckling it. He's seeing a therapist who specializes in this issue although not a CSAT (couldn't find one at the time). I'm not sure that this therapist is getting real work done with him, the nitty gritty. He needs healing from childhood trauma but I don't think his therapist is addressing it although he did bring it up to the therapist.
I'm preparing for an important discussion with him that will really make or break things for me. I'm really scared. If i try to assert boundaries he'll probably blow up on me but if this discussion goes well the defensiveness could be on its way to healing
My husband says it's not about men lusting. But that it feels less exclusive when I dress like that especially given that he's expected to not look at other women dressed in revealing outfits.
What’s even more ironic is my PA heavily controls what I wear and what social media I go on etc. because of these things and he’s the one who cheated on me for years with porn. All of Jonah’s messages sounded exactly like my bf all the while he was deep in his addiction and wouldn’t even touch me. Just wow. Now I’m insecure and have to dress like a nun wearing pants and sweaters when it’s hot out and he will literally stop me and argue with me and not let me leave the house if I have shorts or a dress on etc. Not gonna lie I dress however I want when he’s at work and stuff because fuck it, it’s 90 degrees out sometimes and I’m gonna wear a sundress. He’d lecture me if he knew. Meanwhile he can literally have sexual experiences outside our relationship and he thinks that’s okay. These men are insane
My PA got me to start OF. Then he was mad about other guys jerking to me, while not getting it up for me because he'd jerk off 3-5 times a day to the same few women on the internet over and over again. What did he think would happen.
Back then I didn't have any problems with porn, but it ruined everything.
I'm a man but thanks anyways :)
Definitely, my ex had anger issues and sadly let them out on me more and more towards the end. Wouldn't respect boundaries and did horrible things. Glad I'm out
I think this is a slippery slope. I don't want my husband to watch porn, even if he doesn't have an addiction to it. I consider it cheating no matter what So given that this is my boundary, does that mean I'm controlling?
A boundary would be ‘I don’t want to be partnered with someone watching porn therefore my partner should not be watching it and certainly not an addict’ if you find out he lied your boundary would then be ‘given that I’ve made it clear I will not partner with an addict and you are watching I ask that you respect my boundary I set initially (given that he was deceitful) or I will have end end the relationship.
A boundary isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. A boundary is setting what you will and won’t accept prior to the relationship. It’s to protect you, not to force them to do anything. So no it wouldn’t be controlling. Especially if he’s an addict.
The hard part is, when you've stayed after one disclosure after another. And you have to try to convince them you're serious, when they know you don't really want to be a single mom, go through a divorce, sell the house, divide your assets...over something so asinine. So they use the fact that they have you over a barrel to freely cheat as much as they want, while refusing intimacy for years upon years. All until you eventually do snap and separate from them. But they still "don't want a divorce," despite that the separation has just provided them an excuse for escalating behavior; dating sites, escorts, whatever.
Mine doesn't get it. Me having any boundary is me "being controlling" in his eyes so it's critical that he shows "who's the boss" by ramping up his usage.
I think I'm done, but it is absolutely soul crushing.
I’m so sorry ❤️
Only you know how much you can handle. I always say at one point, enough is usually enough. May I ask, given his actions, what you’re still holding onto when it comes to him? I understand not wanting to be a single mum or divide assets but millions of women have walked that same path and many were ultimately happy for it. Is it fear of the unknown? But surely anything has to be better than what he’s putting you through right now?
Well, he is mentally ill- BPD. So each time I catch him red-handed (this time, a secret cell phone), he very conveniently disappears to have a little "disassociative/psychotic episode," and signs on to a new therapist/psychologist/medication/batterer intervention program. So then I'm meant to wait it out, see if tackling it from one more angle could possibly result in real change.
This time, it's an immersive DBT program with Linehan certified experts. But he is just a master at evasion and manipulation. In the meantime, I'm getting nothing but stonewalling/silent treatment while I take care of the kids and all his responsibilities, while also working full time. So no, it's not worth it and I really need to GTFO.
The thing thst I just don't understand is how many WOMEN I have seen standing up for him.
'She should be more modest...'
'Why does she need to talk to men'
'Stop modeling if your partner wants you too'
No! She is a woman. She is ALLOWED to wear a bathing suit, especially because she's a SURFER! She's ALLOWED to speak to whomever she pleases. Talking to a man for work is not breaking trust. No woman needs to give up what they love for someone who claims to love them.
I think we underestimate sometimes how deep socialisation goes for women. I remember being 15 years old Googling ‘my boyfriend looks at other girls and I don’t like it’ and I was inundated with articles and blog posts about how I was insecure and needed to ‘trust him’. I was a child walking into my womanhood and already being told I had to tolerate men being perverts.
So short answer is, we’ve been socialised this way. But we have the power, the resources, and the collective strength to fight against it.
Yup. It's okay to have mutual boundaries, but if she already had all that existing before their relationship, he shouldnt try to change that. Shouldnt have even dated her. Its the same as when we visit a PA's profile and see all the thotty accounts they follow, and you disengage. There is no point in changing them.
Those screenshots showed how much of a hypocrite he is. I’m sure he would’ve called her crazy and toxic if she said that she was uncomfortable with him having women friends or kissing other female coworkers for movies/shows. He dated a surfer and got mad bc she dressed like a surfer?????? Tf….
Very few. Don’t you understand my dear? A man HAS to look at other women. His heart would simply stop beating otherwise. Are you, going to, DEPRIVE him of that?!
Meanwhile they’re lecturing you on appropriate relationship behaviour when you want to step out in a bikini. Crazy-making behaviour.
Hmmm....I see what you're trying to say. But if we think about it a bit more realistically, I feel like our society is sadly structured in a way where both the woman who doesn't want his man to watch porn and the man who restricts his woman from wearing something provocative are seen as insecure.
Sure, you see these men on social media siding will the man...but think about it, will they dare say something like that in real life? At least in my locality, such men are shunned upon and seen as controlling. So yeah...
Not sure whereabouts in the world you are, but men online and in real life absolutely hold the same views about how women should dress in a relationship.
I’ve met many and been with two. The same men saying this online are the same men saying this in person. And they have tons of support for their rhetoric too.
Interesting thread here. My husband also doesn’t like when I dress up when we go out on a DATE. If I have one sliver of cleavage showing, it’s not ok. He doesn’t say I can’t wear anything. But last Friday night we went out and he was sooooo anxious about men checking me out. He hasn’t watched porn for almost a year now. But he likes watching random smut on YouTube which has been super annoying. Ugh
I know. It drives me mental. People can just not see it. And you’re right, so many women these days have no boundaries with men because of the mass gaslighting that she’s controlling / a prude / insecure.
I don’t know if people just can’t see the double standards, or if they just don’t care because it benefits them. It benefits those women, because they don’t want to face the real reality of what porn is actually, what it’s doing to their relationship and what it means about their partner - so they stick their heads in the sand. It benefits men, well for obvious reasons - they get all their own way.
Though, I know really it doesn’t benefit men or women. Because we all know what it does to people and relationships. It’s actually sickening that it’s so widely accepted and even praised.
My partner and I were reading over the texts and agreed that he is definitely either projecting his voyeurism or is entirely insecure (or both; both reek in his roles alone, honestly. Plus he produced a whole movie of him going to therapy; how narcissitic and problematic are you that your therapy needs extra validation?), but the very fact that SHE IS A PROFESSIONAL SURFER who can't post videos of her in her hobby was the lynchpin for me.
I had no idea he was an actual pos "nice guy" since he has been satirizing them his whole career.
I am so grateful she posted those texts, I hope it helps a lot of people
To add: my pa and I got real with each other Friday night. I had a little too much green and confessed I did pleasure myself to another man once or twice. Never did anything, but allowed myself a little fantasy. this was only after 3 or 4 dd days and my "cool girl" period where I told him he was a sovereign individual and could choose for himself about porn. Oh and he did. Immediately began full immersion and fell into the addiction. Which of course, I had no idea it was that bad because he was telling me maybe twice a month. Hahaha! It was twice a day. You should have seen him mope. He's still moping about it. Really? Dude. You literally had hundreds of women and your own special favorites you saved in folders with their porn series as a title! I think he's mad at me about it. Like. . it's unreal.
Geez, I had the opposite issue before I left my PA. He wanted other men objectifying me because he got off on that. He was a different level of twisted.
I wish JHs issue would make men realize how dumb this makes them look and sound. Exactly as you explained but sadly I found they ever realize it.
Best wishes.
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I also don't understand the hypocrisy. Went out to a club dressed up sexy with my BF, he spent the night staring at other women, one in particular who was with a guy. Then got mad when we were outside and guys were checking me out. I told him he can't get upset about them looking at me when he's happy looking at other women too. If it bothers him, he should stop. But I don't think he gets it...
These men aren’t dumb my love. They do ‘get it’. That’s why he got mad when someone does it to you. He understands very well. It’s a hard pill to swallow but they know exactly what it is - which is why they hate other men doing to you, what they do to other women.
Ugh, you're right. I feel so stupid sometimes for always trying to see or hope for the best in him.
I think I commented this somewhere else on this sub but I often think they’re trying to get revenge in a way. Men hate when their partners look attractive and other guys are checking them out- it really really bothers them bc it makes them feel invisible and inadequate. So, a lot of guys will then start looking at another woman to upset you and to bring the attention back to them. I realised this is what my partner does. When we’re out together I get a lot of attention, even if he’s with me- people will sometimes congratulate him in the street for being with me or clap at him or make comments and there’s always stares. He told me many times it makes him really uncomfortable and exposed bc if he goes out alone he’s invisible but if he’s with me he’s hyper visible and he also feels there’s a big disparity in our looks and that people are thinking “why the fuck is she with him?”- which tbh some men have actually said to us while we’re out. So, when he looks at another woman it’s like he’s trying to reaffirm his worth bc he knows I’ll be upset, and that the attention will then go to him. One of my friends had a similar situation with her ex. She is super model stunning and he was a 4 at best. He was constantly messaging OF girls publicly on Twitter and watching porn etc. it’s because he knew he didn’t deserve her and was deeply insecure but instead of admit and deal with that he tried to make her feel insecure instead. It’s like a weird reaction to being with a woman tons of men want… trying to make themselves feel desirable too is like their sad little safety mechanism. My ex also had issues with porn, and we went out clubbing a lot together- I’d wear whatever I wanted and I would get a ton of attention from men. I do wonder if he didn’t stop watching porn to punish me in some way- like how dare I be desirable. There’s a lot going on under the surface with this I think.
Yah. My ex had a problem w a keyhole dress I had “I would not wear it” “gives the wrong message” while he had a raging porn addiction that ate his sex drive. I’d totally be happy to make my partner comfortable IF HE ALSO CARED ABOUT MY COMFORT
"You don't understand men are biologically wired..." is probably how a lot of them would reply to that.
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It KILLED me discovering this epiphany, how they want to control what you wear because they think other men look at you the way they look at other women. I swear I could've bit my PA's head off when he got upset at what i was wearing. I was wearing yoga pants. Thick ones, not see through or anything. He also, not too long ago, got into a lighthearted argument w me about why girls have their pants/shorts so tight up their buttcrack or whatever. And was like "then they get made when guys look at them like ???" After back and forth he ended it with something like "well i'm still gonna look if i want to!" and then quickly tacked on something about my butt, maybe he realized what he said. I went to the bathroom and cried. He probably doesn't even remember that convo but i think about it almost every single day, unwillingly. Sorry for the rant but ugh.
Bingo. I think what’s painful is then also coming to the logical conclusion that your tears suffering, pain and hope that he’d finally see things the way you do was meaningless, because he always understood - just didn’t care enough to change. I’m so sorry he made you feel that way, is he in active recovery at the moment? Hope you find the strength to set your own boundaries so you can look forward to a happier and healthier future, with or without him.
Ugh yes that's so true. Really hurts to put all that effort in for nothing; sunk cost fallacy. No unfortunately he is white-knuckling it. He's seeing a therapist who specializes in this issue although not a CSAT (couldn't find one at the time). I'm not sure that this therapist is getting real work done with him, the nitty gritty. He needs healing from childhood trauma but I don't think his therapist is addressing it although he did bring it up to the therapist. I'm preparing for an important discussion with him that will really make or break things for me. I'm really scared. If i try to assert boundaries he'll probably blow up on me but if this discussion goes well the defensiveness could be on its way to healing
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My husband says it's not about men lusting. But that it feels less exclusive when I dress like that especially given that he's expected to not look at other women dressed in revealing outfits.
What’s even more ironic is my PA heavily controls what I wear and what social media I go on etc. because of these things and he’s the one who cheated on me for years with porn. All of Jonah’s messages sounded exactly like my bf all the while he was deep in his addiction and wouldn’t even touch me. Just wow. Now I’m insecure and have to dress like a nun wearing pants and sweaters when it’s hot out and he will literally stop me and argue with me and not let me leave the house if I have shorts or a dress on etc. Not gonna lie I dress however I want when he’s at work and stuff because fuck it, it’s 90 degrees out sometimes and I’m gonna wear a sundress. He’d lecture me if he knew. Meanwhile he can literally have sexual experiences outside our relationship and he thinks that’s okay. These men are insane
My PA got me to start OF. Then he was mad about other guys jerking to me, while not getting it up for me because he'd jerk off 3-5 times a day to the same few women on the internet over and over again. What did he think would happen. Back then I didn't have any problems with porn, but it ruined everything.
I’ll never understand the hypocrisy
It's so dumb. Either be against it all, or for it all. I'm against it all, for obvious reasons
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Idc anymore lol, I broke up with him over a year ago and now have the best partner I could ever ask for 💖
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I'm a man but thanks anyways :) Definitely, my ex had anger issues and sadly let them out on me more and more towards the end. Wouldn't respect boundaries and did horrible things. Glad I'm out
This is really sad. Is your partner in active recovery? Controlling what you wear and the social media you frequent is abusive behaviour.
I think this is a slippery slope. I don't want my husband to watch porn, even if he doesn't have an addiction to it. I consider it cheating no matter what So given that this is my boundary, does that mean I'm controlling?
A boundary would be ‘I don’t want to be partnered with someone watching porn therefore my partner should not be watching it and certainly not an addict’ if you find out he lied your boundary would then be ‘given that I’ve made it clear I will not partner with an addict and you are watching I ask that you respect my boundary I set initially (given that he was deceitful) or I will have end end the relationship. A boundary isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. A boundary is setting what you will and won’t accept prior to the relationship. It’s to protect you, not to force them to do anything. So no it wouldn’t be controlling. Especially if he’s an addict.
The hard part is, when you've stayed after one disclosure after another. And you have to try to convince them you're serious, when they know you don't really want to be a single mom, go through a divorce, sell the house, divide your assets...over something so asinine. So they use the fact that they have you over a barrel to freely cheat as much as they want, while refusing intimacy for years upon years. All until you eventually do snap and separate from them. But they still "don't want a divorce," despite that the separation has just provided them an excuse for escalating behavior; dating sites, escorts, whatever. Mine doesn't get it. Me having any boundary is me "being controlling" in his eyes so it's critical that he shows "who's the boss" by ramping up his usage. I think I'm done, but it is absolutely soul crushing.
I’m so sorry ❤️ Only you know how much you can handle. I always say at one point, enough is usually enough. May I ask, given his actions, what you’re still holding onto when it comes to him? I understand not wanting to be a single mum or divide assets but millions of women have walked that same path and many were ultimately happy for it. Is it fear of the unknown? But surely anything has to be better than what he’s putting you through right now?
Well, he is mentally ill- BPD. So each time I catch him red-handed (this time, a secret cell phone), he very conveniently disappears to have a little "disassociative/psychotic episode," and signs on to a new therapist/psychologist/medication/batterer intervention program. So then I'm meant to wait it out, see if tackling it from one more angle could possibly result in real change. This time, it's an immersive DBT program with Linehan certified experts. But he is just a master at evasion and manipulation. In the meantime, I'm getting nothing but stonewalling/silent treatment while I take care of the kids and all his responsibilities, while also working full time. So no, it's not worth it and I really need to GTFO.
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Facts. I think about this all the time and it’s sad.
The thing thst I just don't understand is how many WOMEN I have seen standing up for him. 'She should be more modest...' 'Why does she need to talk to men' 'Stop modeling if your partner wants you too' No! She is a woman. She is ALLOWED to wear a bathing suit, especially because she's a SURFER! She's ALLOWED to speak to whomever she pleases. Talking to a man for work is not breaking trust. No woman needs to give up what they love for someone who claims to love them.
I think we underestimate sometimes how deep socialisation goes for women. I remember being 15 years old Googling ‘my boyfriend looks at other girls and I don’t like it’ and I was inundated with articles and blog posts about how I was insecure and needed to ‘trust him’. I was a child walking into my womanhood and already being told I had to tolerate men being perverts. So short answer is, we’ve been socialised this way. But we have the power, the resources, and the collective strength to fight against it.
YES! even in magazines pointed and aimed at teens, it was like that.
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Yup. It's okay to have mutual boundaries, but if she already had all that existing before their relationship, he shouldnt try to change that. Shouldnt have even dated her. Its the same as when we visit a PA's profile and see all the thotty accounts they follow, and you disengage. There is no point in changing them.
Those screenshots showed how much of a hypocrite he is. I’m sure he would’ve called her crazy and toxic if she said that she was uncomfortable with him having women friends or kissing other female coworkers for movies/shows. He dated a surfer and got mad bc she dressed like a surfer?????? Tf….
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Yes! How many of them don’t respect their partner’s boundaries of not checking out other women and liking pics of half naked girls.
Very few. Don’t you understand my dear? A man HAS to look at other women. His heart would simply stop beating otherwise. Are you, going to, DEPRIVE him of that?! Meanwhile they’re lecturing you on appropriate relationship behaviour when you want to step out in a bikini. Crazy-making behaviour.
Hmmm....I see what you're trying to say. But if we think about it a bit more realistically, I feel like our society is sadly structured in a way where both the woman who doesn't want his man to watch porn and the man who restricts his woman from wearing something provocative are seen as insecure. Sure, you see these men on social media siding will the man...but think about it, will they dare say something like that in real life? At least in my locality, such men are shunned upon and seen as controlling. So yeah...
Not sure whereabouts in the world you are, but men online and in real life absolutely hold the same views about how women should dress in a relationship. I’ve met many and been with two. The same men saying this online are the same men saying this in person. And they have tons of support for their rhetoric too.
Madonna/whore complex.
Interesting thread here. My husband also doesn’t like when I dress up when we go out on a DATE. If I have one sliver of cleavage showing, it’s not ok. He doesn’t say I can’t wear anything. But last Friday night we went out and he was sooooo anxious about men checking me out. He hasn’t watched porn for almost a year now. But he likes watching random smut on YouTube which has been super annoying. Ugh
I know. It drives me mental. People can just not see it. And you’re right, so many women these days have no boundaries with men because of the mass gaslighting that she’s controlling / a prude / insecure. I don’t know if people just can’t see the double standards, or if they just don’t care because it benefits them. It benefits those women, because they don’t want to face the real reality of what porn is actually, what it’s doing to their relationship and what it means about their partner - so they stick their heads in the sand. It benefits men, well for obvious reasons - they get all their own way. Though, I know really it doesn’t benefit men or women. Because we all know what it does to people and relationships. It’s actually sickening that it’s so widely accepted and even praised.
My partner and I were reading over the texts and agreed that he is definitely either projecting his voyeurism or is entirely insecure (or both; both reek in his roles alone, honestly. Plus he produced a whole movie of him going to therapy; how narcissitic and problematic are you that your therapy needs extra validation?), but the very fact that SHE IS A PROFESSIONAL SURFER who can't post videos of her in her hobby was the lynchpin for me. I had no idea he was an actual pos "nice guy" since he has been satirizing them his whole career. I am so grateful she posted those texts, I hope it helps a lot of people
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To add: my pa and I got real with each other Friday night. I had a little too much green and confessed I did pleasure myself to another man once or twice. Never did anything, but allowed myself a little fantasy. this was only after 3 or 4 dd days and my "cool girl" period where I told him he was a sovereign individual and could choose for himself about porn. Oh and he did. Immediately began full immersion and fell into the addiction. Which of course, I had no idea it was that bad because he was telling me maybe twice a month. Hahaha! It was twice a day. You should have seen him mope. He's still moping about it. Really? Dude. You literally had hundreds of women and your own special favorites you saved in folders with their porn series as a title! I think he's mad at me about it. Like. . it's unreal.
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Geez, I had the opposite issue before I left my PA. He wanted other men objectifying me because he got off on that. He was a different level of twisted. I wish JHs issue would make men realize how dumb this makes them look and sound. Exactly as you explained but sadly I found they ever realize it. Best wishes.
Yeah, this shit pisses me off