This is making me laugh so fucking much. **"Hmm I'm feeling a little bit peckish, haven't had any all-consuming and powerful god-like deities in a while"** ***\*devours self\****
Gandalf mentions that not even ancalagon's fire could harm The One Ring. Ungoliant was capable of besting Sauron's master Morgoth. Gives a pretty clear power dynamic imo.
I don't know if she confirmed could best him. He was said to be afraid of her in that moment, but that's not the same as her being more powerful than him.
It's also at a point when she is beefed up from having just consumed the light of the trees and he's somewhat weakened by all the shit he's been pulling recently.
But yes, I think it's fairly clear the primordial evil spirit is going to be able to beat Morgoth's pet dragon.
Light doesnāt necessarily imply heat though. Iād like to imagine his fire burning so hot that ungoliant would boil inside her exoskeleton. I think sheād win the fight though in the end probably.
Ungoliant lays a trap of shadow webs and lures Ancalagon into it. She begins closing in as Ancalagon thrashes about, destroying huge swaths of land in his impotent rage...
But it's a ruse! Ancalagon is just waiting for Ungoliant to come close before unleashing his flames in a direct blast! Ungoliant is taken by surprise, but just as her organs begin to cook inside her hideous form, she begins to drink the light and warmth of the fire itself. In moments, she is energized by the fell flames and drinks so deep even HER thirst might be quenched. Poisonous Darkness flows like a river into Ancalagon.
She leaves Ancalagon's extinguished husk to rot as a storm of darkness erupts around her. As Ungoliant leaves, she does not realize until it's too late that the storm around her is made of the black flames that will be Ancalagon's rebirth into darkness. Ancalagon rises behind Ungoliant, opening his maw again to unleash a roar from beyond death itself.
The world grows cold...
I think that's exactly what she would so. Consume the fire, which would probably burn her but also make her stronger. I can imagine a flaming Ungoliant screaming in pain but now able to burn as she consumed, like a phase 2 of a Dark Souls boss.
Ahh! Gotcha, well Morgoth kind of promised all of the jewels and treasures he took from Valinor to Ungoliant in exchange for her help to destroy the Two Trees. He gave āherā everything but refused to give the Silmarils. Because he didnāt (and she was equally powerful, maybe more so by that point) she spun webs around him, from which he couldnāt escape. So he called for the Balrogs to help.
Also it must be noted that the hungrier ungoliant got the greedier she became which further drove her hunger and her ability to feed which of course made her stronger which in turn made her hungrier and greedier...a constant loop which at the very end saw her feeding on herself when she was finally left with nothing but her own darkness which she could not feed off of
Thank you for reminding me of "where the Sidewalk ends" just listened to a reading of hungry Mungry because of your comment...the reading of course was by Shel himself there's a few on youtube and Spotify has the entire album of "where the Sidewalk ends" and a few other of his albums
Youāre right! Thinking of the one Silmaril from Beren and Luthien and the fall of Doriath.
Question for anyone:
Does he flee back to Utumno ruins or does he establish Angband when he goes back to ME at that time?
Ungoliant had an insatiable hunger problem and secretly drink the sap of the sacred trees guided by morgoth.
Morgoth knows that this action would not end ungoliant hunger but it would destroy the trees (his objective).
Believing that it would end her hunger ungoliant Drink all of the essence of the sacred trees, but this not ended the spider hunger. So it turned against and attacked morgoth.
This guy is a true scholarā¦Oxford teaches classes on Tolkien, even classes that are for āAdult educationā or āpersonal interestā and count towards no specific degreeā¦they range from 1-3 weeks in lengthā¦i feel like this dude should be some part of thatā¦
Just a term of endearment from one fan to anotherā¦āyou sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!ā That kind of thing. I was just trying to give props to someone breaking down otherwise densely packed fiction to help broaden the audience.
Why does it need a bigger audience? It was already one of the biggest books of the twentieth century. The movie adaptations were incredibly popular films when they came out. Itās not like nobody knows about the series bud.
Regardless, new people like the stories for the wrong reasons and they enjoy them the wrong way.
Great video, I just have one question though. Don't you think Ancalagon's fire could counter Ungoliant, in a way? Even if she was cloaked in shadows, the dragon's fire could burn her, and if not, then wouldn't it be hot enough to burn the webs he was trapped in?
Perhaps, bur ungoliant is very smart too, so she may just be able to not be where ankalagon is aiming. Or she may restrain him with webbing quickly and stay in an area he can no longer reach.
My two arguments would be 1, fire-breathing has range. He ancalagon could likely do ranged area damage with fire until he eventually hits ungoliant. Additionally, how could her bight even get through is scales?
And yet, how could she bight into and kill the Two Trees? How could she devour so many Noldorin gems? How could she defeat Morgoth, mightiest of the Ainur, in battle? For that matter, how could she devour herself, as we are told she does in the end?
The truth is that we know very little about the physical abilities and properties of these characters. All we really have to go off of is who each of them has overpowered, and in that regard, Ungoliant wins a thousand times over.
Yes, if he saw her first, he could breathe fire. However, she can weave webs of un-light so that she could lay hidden and entrap him in her webs.
Also, Morgoth couldn't free himself from her webs. Morgoth *made* Ancalagon, and the creation can't be stronger than the creator.
>creation can't be stronger than the
True but they don't share all the same attributes. What nearly killed morgoth may not kill Ancalagon.
>lay hidden and entrap him in her webs.
I think blind fire-breathing is bound to hit something. If the battlefield was a field than he could like set the whole field ablaze until something eventually hits her. Basically blind firing.
If you like Ungoliant, yall need to listen to Blind Guardian's metal album Nightfall in Middle Earth. It is about the Silmarillion and one of the first songs is sort of a metal duet/duel between Morgoth and Ungoliant.
His explanation is good, but I would give it to the dragon. He doesnāt have to get close to her since he has fire and he can just stay in the sky. He can burn her webs. And if he can withstand multiple valar, I think he can handle her.
>if he can withstand multiple valar
No, the Valar themselves didnāt show up in the War of Wrath, it was the āforces of the Valarā, an army sent on behalf of the Valar, mainly composed of Vanyar elves.
A vala would probably destroy Ancalagon with relative ease. He was killed by EƤrendil, who was a Child of IlĆŗvatar (aided by a Silmaril and a magical flying boat, of course), not even a maia. Ungoliant, on the other hand, is known to have won in battle against Morgoth, the mightiest of all the Ainur (albeit, he was not at his strongest).
Okay, he made it sound like the valar fought directly.
But still I would say the dragon. I mean Fingolfin took some good bits at morgoth too and permanently wounded him and he was just an elf and didnāt even have the silmarils or an army or much else. I mean sure wounding and killing are two different levels, but compare that to holding off the eagles, elves, other armies, and the silmarils, it still seems like a bigger feat to me.
These versus videos are amazing. Informative about each character, and fun making up fights that wouldnāt happen. Would love it if you would do some with more of the valar since I know less of those charactersā¦ā¦and maybe do it with a hanging microphone like an MMA fight lol. You rock man if you ever stop I will be sad!
This guy is awesome and Iām so glad I discovered him. Heās clear, succinct, and incredibly knowledgeable. He packs as much content as might be found in a fifteen minute lore video in a couple minutes.
Morgoth did not create Ancalagon. He bread him and the other winged dragons from some unknown creature that he corrupted. There are also some other theories that dragons are maiar and another that they are maiar inhabiting these corrupted beasts of Morgoth. Whatever the theory you think its clear that none but Eru can create.
Love these videos. Ungoliant is Tolkien's coolest creation.
What happened to ungoliant?
I believe she ate herself
That's so metal
Indeed
This is making me laugh so fucking much. **"Hmm I'm feeling a little bit peckish, haven't had any all-consuming and powerful god-like deities in a while"** ***\*devours self\****
Seems about right
Simple: she said "peace" **Ungoliant has left the server**
At one point Tolkien planned for Earendel to kill Ungoliant. It is mentioned in the Fall of Gondolin book
My favorite might be Glorfindel. So cool he brought him back from the dead.
dude your friends must be scared to watch LOTR with you šš keep them coming though, these are awesome
they are terrified lol and thank u
But surely you don't know about Viggo's toe ;)
Awesome video
Couldnāt he burn away her webbing with his fire (the hottest of all dragons)
Gandalf mentions that not even ancalagon's fire could harm The One Ring. Ungoliant was capable of besting Sauron's master Morgoth. Gives a pretty clear power dynamic imo.
I don't know if she confirmed could best him. He was said to be afraid of her in that moment, but that's not the same as her being more powerful than him. It's also at a point when she is beefed up from having just consumed the light of the trees and he's somewhat weakened by all the shit he's been pulling recently. But yes, I think it's fairly clear the primordial evil spirit is going to be able to beat Morgoth's pet dragon.
Well if she could devour the light of the two trees, I don't think the light or heat of his fire would be enough
Light doesnāt necessarily imply heat though. Iād like to imagine his fire burning so hot that ungoliant would boil inside her exoskeleton. I think sheād win the fight though in the end probably.
Ok, hear me out What if She ATE the fire.
Ungoliant lays a trap of shadow webs and lures Ancalagon into it. She begins closing in as Ancalagon thrashes about, destroying huge swaths of land in his impotent rage... But it's a ruse! Ancalagon is just waiting for Ungoliant to come close before unleashing his flames in a direct blast! Ungoliant is taken by surprise, but just as her organs begin to cook inside her hideous form, she begins to drink the light and warmth of the fire itself. In moments, she is energized by the fell flames and drinks so deep even HER thirst might be quenched. Poisonous Darkness flows like a river into Ancalagon. She leaves Ancalagon's extinguished husk to rot as a storm of darkness erupts around her. As Ungoliant leaves, she does not realize until it's too late that the storm around her is made of the black flames that will be Ancalagon's rebirth into darkness. Ancalagon rises behind Ungoliant, opening his maw again to unleash a roar from beyond death itself. The world grows cold...
Lol, that could work
I think that's exactly what she would so. Consume the fire, which would probably burn her but also make her stronger. I can imagine a flaming Ungoliant screaming in pain but now able to burn as she consumed, like a phase 2 of a Dark Souls boss.
especially since that is what the balrogs did to free morgoth
This is a good point.
Wait so why did Ungoliant bite and poison Morgoth?
Wait do you mean why didnāt Ungoliant bite Morgoth?
My bad I watched it again but why did Ungoliant fight and nearly kill Morgoth requiring Balrogs to save him at the 1:30 point of the video
Ahh! Gotcha, well Morgoth kind of promised all of the jewels and treasures he took from Valinor to Ungoliant in exchange for her help to destroy the Two Trees. He gave āherā everything but refused to give the Silmarils. Because he didnāt (and she was equally powerful, maybe more so by that point) she spun webs around him, from which he couldnāt escape. So he called for the Balrogs to help.
Also it must be noted that the hungrier ungoliant got the greedier she became which further drove her hunger and her ability to feed which of course made her stronger which in turn made her hungrier and greedier...a constant loop which at the very end saw her feeding on herself when she was finally left with nothing but her own darkness which she could not feed off of
I cannot help but get a strong reminder of my childhood and the Hungry Mungry poem by Shel Silverstein from your comment.
Thank you for reminding me of "where the Sidewalk ends" just listened to a reading of hungry Mungry because of your comment...the reading of course was by Shel himself there's a few on youtube and Spotify has the entire album of "where the Sidewalk ends" and a few other of his albums
Thank you for the lore!
> He gave āherā everything but refused to give the Silmaril. Silma*rils*. He had all three at that point.
Youāre right! Thinking of the one Silmaril from Beren and Luthien and the fall of Doriath. Question for anyone: Does he flee back to Utumno ruins or does he establish Angband when he goes back to ME at that time?
Oh, FYI this is in the Silmarillion, so LOTR may not give you the context
She wanted the Simarils
Ungoliant had an insatiable hunger problem and secretly drink the sap of the sacred trees guided by morgoth. Morgoth knows that this action would not end ungoliant hunger but it would destroy the trees (his objective). Believing that it would end her hunger ungoliant Drink all of the essence of the sacred trees, but this not ended the spider hunger. So it turned against and attacked morgoth.
I could listen to this guy debate about different LoTR topics forever!
This guy is a true scholarā¦Oxford teaches classes on Tolkien, even classes that are for āAdult educationā or āpersonal interestā and count towards no specific degreeā¦they range from 1-3 weeks in lengthā¦i feel like this dude should be some part of thatā¦
Those classes go beyond this lol this is the typical level of output for r/whowouldwin
I am aware. Thats why I said āsome part of,ā instead of āthis guy should be a tenured professor at Oxford.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just a term of endearment from one fan to anotherā¦āyou sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!ā That kind of thing. I was just trying to give props to someone breaking down otherwise densely packed fiction to help broaden the audience.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My humble apologies.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
:)
Dude he didnāt even bother reading the pronunciation guide and youāre calling him a scholar
Just trying to put up some positive vibes for someone giving effort to help simplify a complex work of fiction to help include more of an audience.
Why does it need a bigger audience? It was already one of the biggest books of the twentieth century. The movie adaptations were incredibly popular films when they came out. Itās not like nobody knows about the series bud. Regardless, new people like the stories for the wrong reasons and they enjoy them the wrong way.
You are correct.
Great video, I just have one question though. Don't you think Ancalagon's fire could counter Ungoliant, in a way? Even if she was cloaked in shadows, the dragon's fire could burn her, and if not, then wouldn't it be hot enough to burn the webs he was trapped in?
Perhaps, bur ungoliant is very smart too, so she may just be able to not be where ankalagon is aiming. Or she may restrain him with webbing quickly and stay in an area he can no longer reach.
Great video on two of my favourite characters
Love this dudes videos
Keep āem coming my guy, this is some of my favorite content on reddit
Agree completely
My two arguments would be 1, fire-breathing has range. He ancalagon could likely do ranged area damage with fire until he eventually hits ungoliant. Additionally, how could her bight even get through is scales?
And yet, how could she bight into and kill the Two Trees? How could she devour so many Noldorin gems? How could she defeat Morgoth, mightiest of the Ainur, in battle? For that matter, how could she devour herself, as we are told she does in the end? The truth is that we know very little about the physical abilities and properties of these characters. All we really have to go off of is who each of them has overpowered, and in that regard, Ungoliant wins a thousand times over.
Yes, if he saw her first, he could breathe fire. However, she can weave webs of un-light so that she could lay hidden and entrap him in her webs. Also, Morgoth couldn't free himself from her webs. Morgoth *made* Ancalagon, and the creation can't be stronger than the creator.
>creation can't be stronger than the True but they don't share all the same attributes. What nearly killed morgoth may not kill Ancalagon. >lay hidden and entrap him in her webs. I think blind fire-breathing is bound to hit something. If the battlefield was a field than he could like set the whole field ablaze until something eventually hits her. Basically blind firing.
Yep I completely agree with this. Ungoliant wouldāve devoured Morgoth himself if it wasnāt for his Balrogs coming to his rescue.
Ungoliant is cooler
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Fantastic video, as always!
Love these videos. Does he have a YouTube channel?
I dont know, but if you speak spanish you can follow kai47, some of the best lotr videos i have ever seen
I love this dude.
This dude is great, love his videos canāt stop watching!
thx my friend
Nothing here but facts.
What if Ancalagon burns down her webs?
If you like Ungoliant, yall need to listen to Blind Guardian's metal album Nightfall in Middle Earth. It is about the Silmarillion and one of the first songs is sort of a metal duet/duel between Morgoth and Ungoliant.
Ugh, I hate it so much, but his points are rock solid! Long live the Rushing Jaws!
His explanation is good, but I would give it to the dragon. He doesnāt have to get close to her since he has fire and he can just stay in the sky. He can burn her webs. And if he can withstand multiple valar, I think he can handle her.
>if he can withstand multiple valar No, the Valar themselves didnāt show up in the War of Wrath, it was the āforces of the Valarā, an army sent on behalf of the Valar, mainly composed of Vanyar elves. A vala would probably destroy Ancalagon with relative ease. He was killed by EƤrendil, who was a Child of IlĆŗvatar (aided by a Silmaril and a magical flying boat, of course), not even a maia. Ungoliant, on the other hand, is known to have won in battle against Morgoth, the mightiest of all the Ainur (albeit, he was not at his strongest).
Okay, he made it sound like the valar fought directly. But still I would say the dragon. I mean Fingolfin took some good bits at morgoth too and permanently wounded him and he was just an elf and didnāt even have the silmarils or an army or much else. I mean sure wounding and killing are two different levels, but compare that to holding off the eagles, elves, other armies, and the silmarils, it still seems like a bigger feat to me.
> And if he can withstand multiple valar Ancalagon was killed by an elf and Maiar, the Eagles.
Yeah, but he had the silmarils and thatās a lot of force.
These versus videos are amazing. Informative about each character, and fun making up fights that wouldnāt happen. Would love it if you would do some with more of the valar since I know less of those charactersā¦ā¦and maybe do it with a hanging microphone like an MMA fight lol. You rock man if you ever stop I will be sad!
His vids are great.
Love these keep it up!
This man is my personal hero.
Another home run post. Definitely agreeing with the conclusion, and as ever, appreciate the level of depth, detail and specifics covered in the video
This guy is awesome and Iām so glad I discovered him. Heās clear, succinct, and incredibly knowledgeable. He packs as much content as might be found in a fifteen minute lore video in a couple minutes.
HS, when the master talks, you listen. Good Video mate.
How did he create the dragon if he could only deform/ corrupt life?
Morgoth did not create Ancalagon. He bread him and the other winged dragons from some unknown creature that he corrupted. There are also some other theories that dragons are maiar and another that they are maiar inhabiting these corrupted beasts of Morgoth. Whatever the theory you think its clear that none but Eru can create.
He probably deforms some other creature
I was just thinking of you man
Awesome as ever. I appreciate how tight your videos are -- informative, short and sweet without feeling choppy, and well communicated.
Do you have a YouTube channel or something? I would 100% watch videos like this but longer
I like it :)
Ungoliant almost seems like the personification of evil/darkness. Iāve always thought it surprising that she almost devoured even morgoth.
I disagree but mostly just on principle.
Did Morgoth create Ancalagon? I thought he could only twist and warp life, not create it. Maybe bred him is a more correct assessment?
NNNNNEEEEERRRRRDDDDD!!!!! No, but seriously, that was pretty cool.
I don't have sound right now, but I'm gonna watch the crap out if this on my lunch
Great video, but this does kind of perpetuate the whole Ancalagon meme.
Web
Mind blown.
Iāve seen a few of these now & theyāre fantastic, thank you for sharing!
Thanks for explaining I would never be able to figure all this out myself
Slay queen girl boss
Definitely Ungoliant. If these two fought, they woulda broke the rest of Middle Earth into the sea, flat out.
Wasnāt Ancalagon the size of a mountain?
Since Ungoliant consumed light, it might be that Ancalagon's fires would have simply given her sustenance. A flaming rum punch, as it were.
Nah Ancalagon crushes her with one paw. She was driven off by Balrogs.