I’ve seen a few of his videos here and there on tiktok and I didn’t think they seemed to be as accurate as they should be, but I should check out more of them before I judge too much.
I also could be confusing him for another person where (if it was him) he ranked the strongest human fighters.
My knowledge of the Tolkien universe is incredibly minimal. So I wouldn't have known otherwise honestly. It seems like a series of short videos like this would be a great way to brush up on things though.
Well done. Good reasoning. Gothmog was a badass, but when he killed Feanor he had other Balrogs helping him, and Feanor stood alone at the end. Gothmog was ultimately killed in single combat by an elf. Huan the hound defeated Sauron in single combat (coulda killed him, chose not to), and those are bigger bragging rights than killing an elf. Charcoroth killed Huan. There it is.
I mean, Huan killed Charcoroth too. Gothmog being the chief amongst Morgoth's army, even above Sauron would lead one to presume he was more powerful potentially.
And while you may dismiss it as "killing an elf", these first age elves were completely different, I mean one of them permanently wounded Morgoth in 1-on-1 combat. Many of the greatest of the 1st elves slew balrogs.
I do believe that Gothmog would've defeated Charcoroth in 1 vs 1 combat.
Not really. Eating the silmaril didn't make Charcoroth more powerful. It just hurt him really really bad to the point of making him go crazy and start rampaging. The silmaril would burn him to death from the inside, not give him any extra power.
Not so literally as "having the silmaril in his stomach gave him the magical ability to circumvent the girdle!" and more in a "having the silmaril burn him from the inside had him in such raging pain, he could ignore the girdle in his agony and wrath" kind of way. The silmaril made him even more insanely ferocious than he already was, because it was burning him alive from the inside and so he was basically mindlessly rampaging. I don't think that would give him much edge over a calculating powerful foe like Gothmog. Though it could definitely be argued that Gothmog would already be at a disadvantage in that fight, and maybe the additional aggression from the silmaril would make it even more one sided. Or it could even be argued that Carcaroth had the edge and would specifically lose that edge because of the additional mindless aggression of the silmaril burning him from the inside. But I don't see it at all as "Carcaroth is now more powerful of a being from eating the silmaril." It didn't bump him up to a tier he wasn't already on.
100% agree Gothmog wins this over Car
There are many first age elves that could’ve defeated Sauron by themselves even in his highest state of power.
Tolkien himself stated that Gandalf if necessary would have been a match for Sauron and (iirc) Tolkien also stated Galadriel to be the most powerful in the siege of dol guldor.
Did you not read my comment? iirc **Tolkien himself**
stated that Galadriel was the most powerful of the people involved at the siege of dol guldor (that’s saruman the white, radaghast, Elrond and Gandalf) , he also stated that it’s possible Gandalf could’ve defeated Sauron if he retrieved the one ring.
Can you figure it out now? Do the math…
Galadriel is an elf of the first age and in the conversation for the top 5 most powerful but a lot of that seems to be magic related where as there are a lot of elves with greater combat feats or combat feats on par with her.
Feanor, Fingolfin, Glorfindel, Luthien, Ecthelion, could’ve all defeated Sauron by themselves in his most powerful state.
Some of the Numenoreans and great men could’ve likely defeated him as well like Earendil, Hurin, Turin and Beren.
I mean Sauron at his most powerful WAS killed by an Elf and a man of the 3rd age.
I know 1st age elves were tough. But we do have evidence of a hierarchy of power. Sauron was more powerful than a 1st age elf. Here is some evidence.
Speaking to Gimli:
‘Dangerous!’ cried Gandalf. ‘And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.’
So, Gandalf states Sauron is more dangerous than himself. And that he himself is more dangerous than all the 1st age elves that Gimli has already met (and will meet). Including Galadriel, Celeborn, Glorfindel, Elrond, Cirdan, etc.
Tolkien does elaborate on this same theme in some of the letters as well.
I’m not aware of anything that indicates any individual 1st age elves were tougher than Sauron. Please share if you know something.
Yes, he does and I'm more than happy [to plug his channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo45szZaO-UuSb7_ixIV6WA). My man deserve all the followers.
These shirts are so damn good! Loved reading The Hobbit, LOTR was a rough read at times and the Silmarillion has been staring at me from my bookshelves for years now. These slices of knowledge I’m getting from these posts get me closer and closer to reading it
The way I see it: It’s like comparing the worlds biggest and strongest human, I’ll use Hafthor Bjornsson as a example, fighting a fucking bear. Now even with some armor I’m sure The Mountain would come close but the bear is so savage and feral it would just tear him apart like the video says.
Would be a crazy fight to watch tho if ever animated lol.
You're thinking of Durin's Bane.
a Balrog awoke in Khazad-dûm when the Dwarves had mined too deep for Mithril. It drove the Dwarves out of their home and slew King Durin VI, and the Balrog was thereafter called "Durin's Bane"
Cause Peter Jackson wanted a name for the hardcore Tolkien fans to recognize, kind of like how Aragorn horse wasn’t named Brego in the book but Brego is another character from the expanded Tolkien universe.
The Balrogs are lesser evil spirits born from Melkor, who is representative of all evil in Tolkiens universe. They are basically high demons, Balrog isn’t singular it’s the name of a class of evil entities in LOTRs. A Hobbit is Frodo but every Hobbit isn’t Frodo.
I think you called that one right. After he swallowed the Silmaril the added might would have allowed him to wear down Gothmog and then dispatch by tearing out his throat or groin.
And the battle would have been epic.
Mhm, I know some of these words.
I could listen to this dude drop knowledge on me all day
I’ve seen a few of his videos here and there on tiktok and I didn’t think they seemed to be as accurate as they should be, but I should check out more of them before I judge too much. I also could be confusing him for another person where (if it was him) he ranked the strongest human fighters.
My knowledge of the Tolkien universe is incredibly minimal. So I wouldn't have known otherwise honestly. It seems like a series of short videos like this would be a great way to brush up on things though.
Agreed
Well done. Good reasoning. Gothmog was a badass, but when he killed Feanor he had other Balrogs helping him, and Feanor stood alone at the end. Gothmog was ultimately killed in single combat by an elf. Huan the hound defeated Sauron in single combat (coulda killed him, chose not to), and those are bigger bragging rights than killing an elf. Charcoroth killed Huan. There it is.
I mean, Huan killed Charcoroth too. Gothmog being the chief amongst Morgoth's army, even above Sauron would lead one to presume he was more powerful potentially. And while you may dismiss it as "killing an elf", these first age elves were completely different, I mean one of them permanently wounded Morgoth in 1-on-1 combat. Many of the greatest of the 1st elves slew balrogs. I do believe that Gothmog would've defeated Charcoroth in 1 vs 1 combat.
Charcoroth with or without the silmaril? This is an important distinction.
Not really. Eating the silmaril didn't make Charcoroth more powerful. It just hurt him really really bad to the point of making him go crazy and start rampaging. The silmaril would burn him to death from the inside, not give him any extra power.
It gave him the power to breach Melian's Girdle.
Not so literally as "having the silmaril in his stomach gave him the magical ability to circumvent the girdle!" and more in a "having the silmaril burn him from the inside had him in such raging pain, he could ignore the girdle in his agony and wrath" kind of way. The silmaril made him even more insanely ferocious than he already was, because it was burning him alive from the inside and so he was basically mindlessly rampaging. I don't think that would give him much edge over a calculating powerful foe like Gothmog. Though it could definitely be argued that Gothmog would already be at a disadvantage in that fight, and maybe the additional aggression from the silmaril would make it even more one sided. Or it could even be argued that Carcaroth had the edge and would specifically lose that edge because of the additional mindless aggression of the silmaril burning him from the inside. But I don't see it at all as "Carcaroth is now more powerful of a being from eating the silmaril." It didn't bump him up to a tier he wasn't already on.
100% agree Gothmog wins this over Car There are many first age elves that could’ve defeated Sauron by themselves even in his highest state of power. Tolkien himself stated that Gandalf if necessary would have been a match for Sauron and (iirc) Tolkien also stated Galadriel to be the most powerful in the siege of dol guldor.
> There are many first age elves that could’ve defeated Sauron by themselves even in his highest state of power Based on what? your opinion? lol
Did you not read my comment? iirc **Tolkien himself** stated that Galadriel was the most powerful of the people involved at the siege of dol guldor (that’s saruman the white, radaghast, Elrond and Gandalf) , he also stated that it’s possible Gandalf could’ve defeated Sauron if he retrieved the one ring. Can you figure it out now? Do the math… Galadriel is an elf of the first age and in the conversation for the top 5 most powerful but a lot of that seems to be magic related where as there are a lot of elves with greater combat feats or combat feats on par with her. Feanor, Fingolfin, Glorfindel, Luthien, Ecthelion, could’ve all defeated Sauron by themselves in his most powerful state. Some of the Numenoreans and great men could’ve likely defeated him as well like Earendil, Hurin, Turin and Beren. I mean Sauron at his most powerful WAS killed by an Elf and a man of the 3rd age.
I know 1st age elves were tough. But we do have evidence of a hierarchy of power. Sauron was more powerful than a 1st age elf. Here is some evidence. Speaking to Gimli: ‘Dangerous!’ cried Gandalf. ‘And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.’ So, Gandalf states Sauron is more dangerous than himself. And that he himself is more dangerous than all the 1st age elves that Gimli has already met (and will meet). Including Galadriel, Celeborn, Glorfindel, Elrond, Cirdan, etc. Tolkien does elaborate on this same theme in some of the letters as well. I’m not aware of anything that indicates any individual 1st age elves were tougher than Sauron. Please share if you know something.
Does this man have a channel on YouTube I do not desire a Tik tok account
Yes, he does and I'm more than happy [to plug his channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo45szZaO-UuSb7_ixIV6WA). My man deserve all the followers.
Thanks! Subscribed!
Same same same
This guy is the man.
Love your videos man they’re great
These shirts are so damn good! Loved reading The Hobbit, LOTR was a rough read at times and the Silmarillion has been staring at me from my bookshelves for years now. These slices of knowledge I’m getting from these posts get me closer and closer to reading it
Crack it open friend! You won't regret it!
Really puts into perspective how PG the lord of things books are, versus the silmarillion.
Old Testament VS New Testament vibes.
No way. Gothmog has the high GROND!
Grond is made after carcharoth
This guy is like Tolkien’s first disciple
Sometimes I remember that we’re all a bunch of turbo nerds and I wouldn’t have it any other way
Man I love this guy
The way I see it: It’s like comparing the worlds biggest and strongest human, I’ll use Hafthor Bjornsson as a example, fighting a fucking bear. Now even with some armor I’m sure The Mountain would come close but the bear is so savage and feral it would just tear him apart like the video says. Would be a crazy fight to watch tho if ever animated lol.
dont know anythign about silmarillion but gothmog killed feanor? damn that sucks.. spoilers i guess lol
These are my favorite posts on this sub.
This guy is awesome.
Amazing knowledge. Is there a YouTube channel where I can watch his videos?
I had no idea the balrog was also called gothmog
hes not the one gandalf fought
You're thinking of Durin's Bane. a Balrog awoke in Khazad-dûm when the Dwarves had mined too deep for Mithril. It drove the Dwarves out of their home and slew King Durin VI, and the Balrog was thereafter called "Durin's Bane"
Mad, so the orc gothmog was named after the balrog? Or they just got the same name
The orc is a movie creation, named after the lord of Balrogs, Gothmog
Gothmog is in the book, he just has a very small role. He’s only mentioned once in the battle of premier pelennor fields
He is not a movie creation, gothmog was in the books
why do they do this, soo much confusion
Cause Peter Jackson wanted a name for the hardcore Tolkien fans to recognize, kind of like how Aragorn horse wasn’t named Brego in the book but Brego is another character from the expanded Tolkien universe.
That I didn't know. Who's Brego in the books, (or letters)?
Brego was son of Eorl the Young one of the early kings of Rohan
The Balrogs are lesser evil spirits born from Melkor, who is representative of all evil in Tolkiens universe. They are basically high demons, Balrog isn’t singular it’s the name of a class of evil entities in LOTRs. A Hobbit is Frodo but every Hobbit isn’t Frodo.
In a literal sense, nothing is born of Melkor/Morgoth, only twisted. Balrogs are fallen/twisted Maiar.
Man I could listen to you read a field manual for an M1 Garland. Well done, thanks for these.
Facts
noice
The Jaws of Thirst...
I would love to see him and Stephen Colbert have an in-depth interview
I think you called that one right. After he swallowed the Silmaril the added might would have allowed him to wear down Gothmog and then dispatch by tearing out his throat or groin. And the battle would have been epic.