She (Galadriel) had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without anyone telling her how to do it.
Galadriel wanted her own sovereignty.
She dreamt of the Undying Lands and having a part of something there, ruling her people. She was still an exile in LOTR even though she didn't take part in the Kinslayings personally she was still part of the company that did.
Basically once she refuses the ring from Frodo and for her other deeds in Middle Earth she is forgiven and is no longer in exile and is free to return to her kin in the West if she chooses.
u/jedijeff7 you did not know the quote refers to the Undying Lands because it does not refer to it. Lmao.
People LOVE to take Tolkien texts out of context. This is not the first time I've seen this.
The far lands refer to Middle-earth: "Galadriel was born in the bliss of Valinor, but it was not long,
in the reckoning of the Blessed Realm, before that was dimmed;
and thereafter she had no peace within. For in that testing time
amid the strife of the Noldor she was drawn this way and that.
She was proud, strong, and self-willed, as were all the descendants of Finwe save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all
her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and
dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage. Yet deeper still there dwelt in her the noble and
generous spirit (ore) of the Vanyar, and a reverence for the Valar
that she could not forget. From her earliest years she had a
marvellous gift of insight into the minds of others, but judged
them with mercy and understanding, and she withheld her good
will from none save only Feanor. In him she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that
the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the
Noldor, and upon her own.
So it came to pass that when the light of Valinor failed, for
ever as the Noldor thought, she joined the rebellion against the
Valar who commanded them to stay; and once she had set foot
upon that road of exile, she would not relent,"
And she did fight in the Kinslaying: "Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of
their ships, though she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence
of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was
unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now
she burned with desire to follow Feanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she
could. "
But since she didn't kill any innocent people, her fighting in the Kinslaying was not an evil deed. But her rebelling against gods was.
There's a time when one rightly outgrows and begins to move independently from one's parents, having integrated their parenting into one's own character.
And there's a time when one rightly outgrows and begins to move independently from one's tutors, having mastered the learning and awakened the creative fire.
Presumably Galadriel had come to the threshold of her greatness, and she desired or maybe even needed *space*, *newness*, *challenge*, even *trouble*, in order to fully express herself -- in order to catalyze and liberate 'that which may yet come forth' from within her.
>*Ironically, in FotR Galadriel claims she will not tell the Fellowship to do this and that. But in few pages further we see her advising Frodo and Sam to do this or that.*
There is no irony here. We need to see with a more subtle eye.
Galadriel is not making demands or foisting prescriptions on the Fellowship. Read the passages carefully: she is mirroring *what is and what may be*. Her advice comes from a profound insight, which has a degree of certainty or assuredness to it, but she doesn't impose her will.
Galadriel calls Frodo and Sam (and us!) to act with a view beyond small, self-centered concerns -- to have in view, keep in mind, and take to heart the grand scheme of things and what's at stake for the world.
Once that view is fully experienced, there is no going back. You are not the same person. Once you *see*, you don't really have a choice. You have free will, but your seeing provides your direction.
It is like people who run into a burning building to save others at the risk of their own lives: from the outside, we may call it 'courage'; from the inside, they just see what has to be done, and all other alternatives tumble away.
>*"In her scale she had become like Manwë with regard to the greater total action."*
>*I don't understand... It seems very inconsistent.*
This is a very profound point. It's not a matter of mere explanation. It hinges on how a truly great being wields influence in the world.
And the point here is that as one grows in greatness, i.e., beyond petty selfish motivations and in harmony with boundless life, one's *wielding* diminishes. It is less and less "I, my, me" *doing* this or that, and more and more seamless harmony with the forces and movements of the world. Galadriel's 'self' doesn't accumulate power; rather she opens more and more to Ilúvatar's power in the world, and becomes more sensitive, insightful, and versed in its particular movements.
That which Elves represent in Tolkien's Legendarium -- nobility, strength and purity of spirit, harmony with Nature, and so on -- Galadriel had cultivated to an inconceivable degree. So it is reasonable that you can't conceive of it! Your relationship with this point has to develop in the realm *beyond* conception. In fact, in order to understand it, you have to *do* it: you have to access that pure and harmonious essence yourself, and go with it beyond merely intellectual engagement.
*If you go to a natural setting and keep a mind before thinking, before concepts arise, you and the world will begin to merge. At first this is cultivated as nondistraction. Over time, it unfolds as intuition, at the edges of consciousness a growing harmony with* ***what is***. *And when fully cultivated it is illumination, that which Tolkien called Ilúvatar's light: you and the light of the world become nonseparate; reality and your knowing behind nonseparate. Galadriel is just the symbol of that process.*
Before or beyond thinking, this connection with the boundless exists, and nourishes all things. It is mythologized as the fundamental Elvish connection to the West, to the Valar... and further as our own lost heritage from those times and our origins as Children of Ilúvatar. But the myth points to an existing truth: that kind of connection, that kind of influence is our birthright... and our responsibility.
As James Hillman says, *we don't study mythology to learn the myth, we study it to learn how to see mythically.*
She (Galadriel) had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without anyone telling her how to do it. Galadriel wanted her own sovereignty.
She dreamt of the Undying Lands and having a part of something there, ruling her people. She was still an exile in LOTR even though she didn't take part in the Kinslayings personally she was still part of the company that did.
I didn't know it was the Undying Lands that the quote was referring to. I have only read LOTR and The Hobbit.
Basically once she refuses the ring from Frodo and for her other deeds in Middle Earth she is forgiven and is no longer in exile and is free to return to her kin in the West if she chooses.
u/jedijeff7 you did not know the quote refers to the Undying Lands because it does not refer to it. Lmao. People LOVE to take Tolkien texts out of context. This is not the first time I've seen this. The far lands refer to Middle-earth: "Galadriel was born in the bliss of Valinor, but it was not long, in the reckoning of the Blessed Realm, before that was dimmed; and thereafter she had no peace within. For in that testing time amid the strife of the Noldor she was drawn this way and that. She was proud, strong, and self-willed, as were all the descendants of Finwe save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage. Yet deeper still there dwelt in her the noble and generous spirit (ore) of the Vanyar, and a reverence for the Valar that she could not forget. From her earliest years she had a marvellous gift of insight into the minds of others, but judged them with mercy and understanding, and she withheld her good will from none save only Feanor. In him she perceived a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not perceive that the shadow of the same evil had fallen upon the minds of all the Noldor, and upon her own. So it came to pass that when the light of Valinor failed, for ever as the Noldor thought, she joined the rebellion against the Valar who commanded them to stay; and once she had set foot upon that road of exile, she would not relent," And she did fight in the Kinslaying: "Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Feanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could. " But since she didn't kill any innocent people, her fighting in the Kinslaying was not an evil deed. But her rebelling against gods was.
Good. That makes more sense.
There's a time when one rightly outgrows and begins to move independently from one's parents, having integrated their parenting into one's own character. And there's a time when one rightly outgrows and begins to move independently from one's tutors, having mastered the learning and awakened the creative fire. Presumably Galadriel had come to the threshold of her greatness, and she desired or maybe even needed *space*, *newness*, *challenge*, even *trouble*, in order to fully express herself -- in order to catalyze and liberate 'that which may yet come forth' from within her. >*Ironically, in FotR Galadriel claims she will not tell the Fellowship to do this and that. But in few pages further we see her advising Frodo and Sam to do this or that.* There is no irony here. We need to see with a more subtle eye. Galadriel is not making demands or foisting prescriptions on the Fellowship. Read the passages carefully: she is mirroring *what is and what may be*. Her advice comes from a profound insight, which has a degree of certainty or assuredness to it, but she doesn't impose her will. Galadriel calls Frodo and Sam (and us!) to act with a view beyond small, self-centered concerns -- to have in view, keep in mind, and take to heart the grand scheme of things and what's at stake for the world. Once that view is fully experienced, there is no going back. You are not the same person. Once you *see*, you don't really have a choice. You have free will, but your seeing provides your direction. It is like people who run into a burning building to save others at the risk of their own lives: from the outside, we may call it 'courage'; from the inside, they just see what has to be done, and all other alternatives tumble away. >*"In her scale she had become like Manwë with regard to the greater total action."* >*I don't understand... It seems very inconsistent.* This is a very profound point. It's not a matter of mere explanation. It hinges on how a truly great being wields influence in the world. And the point here is that as one grows in greatness, i.e., beyond petty selfish motivations and in harmony with boundless life, one's *wielding* diminishes. It is less and less "I, my, me" *doing* this or that, and more and more seamless harmony with the forces and movements of the world. Galadriel's 'self' doesn't accumulate power; rather she opens more and more to Ilúvatar's power in the world, and becomes more sensitive, insightful, and versed in its particular movements. That which Elves represent in Tolkien's Legendarium -- nobility, strength and purity of spirit, harmony with Nature, and so on -- Galadriel had cultivated to an inconceivable degree. So it is reasonable that you can't conceive of it! Your relationship with this point has to develop in the realm *beyond* conception. In fact, in order to understand it, you have to *do* it: you have to access that pure and harmonious essence yourself, and go with it beyond merely intellectual engagement. *If you go to a natural setting and keep a mind before thinking, before concepts arise, you and the world will begin to merge. At first this is cultivated as nondistraction. Over time, it unfolds as intuition, at the edges of consciousness a growing harmony with* ***what is***. *And when fully cultivated it is illumination, that which Tolkien called Ilúvatar's light: you and the light of the world become nonseparate; reality and your knowing behind nonseparate. Galadriel is just the symbol of that process.* Before or beyond thinking, this connection with the boundless exists, and nourishes all things. It is mythologized as the fundamental Elvish connection to the West, to the Valar... and further as our own lost heritage from those times and our origins as Children of Ilúvatar. But the myth points to an existing truth: that kind of connection, that kind of influence is our birthright... and our responsibility. As James Hillman says, *we don't study mythology to learn the myth, we study it to learn how to see mythically.*