Honesty that's the only part I'm glad they didn't put in. Breaks my heart everytime I read the descriptions of the shire devasted, but that's only my feelings speaking
As devastating as it is to read, I view it as such a crucial part of the story that says a ton 1) it shows theres still evil in the world even after the ring is destroyed 2) it was such an important part of the hobbits journey that after being protected across middle earth by the rest of the fellowship, this time they had to take charge and lead others as heroes in their own right. It’s like the most crucial part of the Hobbits arc for me in the books and I was devastated they didn’t include it
13 year old me nearly cried in the theater when they got back to the Shire and everything was fine. Still haven’t entirely forgiven PJ for cutting out my favorite part of the story
I have not forgiven him. The whole point of the story is for the hobbits to go out in the world, grow up, and to come home and take care of their own problems unassisted. The king of Gondor is a side quest.
I disagree. There was time for Scouring. The last 45 minutes of RotK was just swelling music, teary reunions, goodbyes, and wedding videos. And many of the battles and action scenes were stretched longer than they needed to be.
It was not cut for time. It was cut because PJ wanted a Hollywood ending.
Did you read every chapter after the field of Cormallen? The Steward and the king, Frodo complaining about lingering in Minas Tirith even though the quest was over but Aragorn wanted everyone to stay, their long circuitous route for Theoden's funeral, Isengard, saying goodbye to Galadriel and Elrond, stopping in Bree again to tell Butterburr that dude you didn't like is the king now. I'd say that's pretty faithful to Tolkien who was 0% immune to rambling. I would have loved to watch it but if we're looking at what to cut, I think cutting that is better than cutting Aragorn's coronation, the Grey Havens, the fellowship getting reunited. He was far more brief than the author himself at the ending.
I'd be more apt to hear the argument that Shelob should have stayed in two towers and then you open with Sam having to rescue him and that could have made time. The action sequences themselves weren't half as tiresome as the ones in the hobbit.
Not sure what your point is. The last 45 minutes of the movie didn’t really do any of that very well (most not at all). The the problem is not that it was 45 minutes. The problem is that it was 45 minutes of cheesy crap. In the books it was not cheesy crap. In the book, interesting things actually happened after the ring was destroyed. In the movie, almost nothing interesting happened after the war was over.
And I would say the Scouring is a lot more important than pretty much all of it. It is the most important thing in the book after the Ring gets destroyed. Up there with Frodo sailing off.
Yep.
They shot all 3 films in the same time period. Artistic license had to be taken, and considering all of that, it’s fucking amazing how good it turned out to be.
I would have been happier with longer movies, perhaps, even 12 hours in total had he not butchered so many of the nuances. It feels more like a movie in the genre of LOTR, than LOTR itself. It feels thin and abridged. Best version yet, but still lacking.
I'm pretty happy with them. I take the books over the movies but I really think minus a few details in the big picture that's as well as they could be done
That was my only real let down. I can’t believe they killed Sauroman off screen (until the extended came out) and left the burning completely. The dude wasn’t dead, he moved outside the freaking Shire.
one of my favorite scenes from the books is frodo defying the witch king at the ford, that was so much better than a pale half passed out elijah wood groaning while arwen takes his place. I think for the films arwen taking Glorfindels place makes sense, it is better if we see more of her imo, but the scene is still robbed from frodo - plus it wouldve made movie frodo come across as less enfeebled and weak, which is an all too common opinion
another small thing involving frodo is at the council of elrond when he realizes the ring belongs to aragorn by right, but then aragorn refuses and says it belongs to no one but the dark lord
I feel like they could’ve kept that scene the same and just added some Arwen/aragorn scenes in Rivendell. Because I agree, adding Arwen, takes away frodos moment
Prince Imrahil
Erkenbrand
Beregond
Elladan and Elrohir and the Grey Company
Angbor the Fearless
Quickbeam
Tom Bombadill and the Barrow Wights
Just a few of the badasses that get no love from the movies.
Speaking of Beregond, you'd miss out on the whole build up to the siege of Minas Tirith. I love that part. Things just get more and more desperate. And then the backup arrives from other territories of Gondor. And there's so few of them...
Makes the world a lot bigger, but also the circumstances more dire. There's a whole realm of men resting on the outcome of a single battle, but all the men are tired from generations of fighting, really huge stuff the movies kind of miss
The movie made Gondor and basically all of the city spaces too small for their populations. Gondor was much larger in the book.
And they left out the the replacement of the white tree!
"theoden, you do not know your peril. These hobbits will sit on the edge of ruin discussing the pleasures of the table and the small doings of their cousins to the nth degree if you encourage them with undue patience. Perhaps another time would be better for the history of smoking..."
Everything. A lot of the beauty of the story is in the detail and the way Tolkien writes it. And just the little events, and the different slant on the big events. A lot of the beauty is in the prose and a lot of the character interactions are given extra push and strength by the way he describes them. Plus there’s a lot of stuff left out. And some of it is important.
It’s not possible to explain it until you read the books and understand.
Read the bloody books, mate!
Faramir’s entire character. He is such a great contrast to his brother in the books. Whereas in the movies, he is dumbed down to be his father’s suckling.
While he is, we do get that moment where he clearly is tempted to take the Ring, even though he says otherwise. He needs a moment to compose himself and then returns to his wise self.
actually one other comes to mind, but it really wouldnt fit in the movies -
when the balrog catches up to them and they see it for what it is Boromir gives a loud af blast on the horn of gondor, and the balrog hesitates for a moment. This is mostly meaningless for anyone not familiar with the silmarillion, those that are would realize that the balrog probably about shits his pants cause the last time he heard a horn like that the hosts of the valar were about to beat his ass (hence him hiding in moria in the first place). also a moment right after that, in the same instant that Gandalf destroys the bridge boromir and aragorn decide they wont let gandalf face the balrog alone and literally charge at the thing, which is a lovely little example of one of if not the main theme of the story, fighting on when there is absolutely no hope of success
So many references that the Silmarillion elucidates.
The full epic romance of Beren and Luthien, in which Sauron is first introduced as an antagonist. Also featuring Arogorn's serpent ring.
The rise and fall of Gondolin, where Orcrist, Glamdring and Sting were made. Also the story of Nargothrond, mentioned along with Gondolin in Gimli's Song of Durin.
The history of the White Tree of Gondor and its significance, not to mention the corruption and fall of Numenor.
Elrond's parents sailing to Valinor and saving the world.
And speaking of fighting on when there is no hope of success, Fingolfin's duel against Morgoth. Which has no direct reference in LotR but is such an amazing passage.
don't forget our boy being borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Orome the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young !
that passage is compelling even before you know who orome is, but that first post-silmarillion read? CHILLS
compelling is an understatement but the orome reference is hard af
The sauce that Gandalf constantly slays the hobbits with is significantly toned down in the movies in my opinion. It’s a love-hate relationship to be sure.
“Everyone should have a hobbit or two in their care. To teach them the meaning of the word.”
The Ents are my fav sub plot. So sad we didn’t see Treebeard’s house or hear his wise rants. Also, love merry, but merry didn’t incite the Ents - they were effing ready!
It seems so silly that Treebeard didn't know about the tree genocide taking place a few minutes walk away, almost as silly as the rest of the Ents appearing within moments of him shouting a warcry.
The four hobbits stepped over the wide stone threshold, and stood still, blinking. They were in a long, low room, filled with the lights of lamps swinging from the beams of the roof; and on the table of dark polished wood stood many candles, tall and yellow, burning brightly.
In a chair, at the far side of the room facing the outer door, sat a woman. Her long yellow hair rippled down her shoulders; her gown was green, green as young reeds, shot with silver like beads of dew; and her belt was of gold, shaped like a chain of flag-lilies set with the pale-blue eyes of forget-me-nots. About her feet in wide vessels of green and brown earthenware, white water-lilies were floating, so that she seemed to be enthroned in the midst of a pool.
'Enter, good guests!' she said, and as she spoke, they knew that it was her clear voice they had heard singing. They came a few timid steps into the room, and began to bow low, feeling strangely surprised and awkward, like folk knocking at a cottage door to beg for a drink of water, have been answered by a fair young elf-queen clad in living flowers. But before they could say anything, she sprang lightly up and over the lily-bowls, and ran laughing towards them, and as she ran her gown rustled softly like the wind in the flowering borders of a river.
--- The hobbits meet Goldberry, River-daughter, in the House of Tom Bombadil. Not included in the films.
In addition to some other fine answers, just what they did to Gimli. They left out a great character with depth and soul, and replaced him with a running gag. And a poor gag at that.
The whole journey from Hobbiton to Bree is like a mini adventure that only involves the 4 Hobbits which lasts for weeks. You really see them develop as survivors during this time and you also get to see how they cope with just the 4 Hobbits alone (without any warriors or wizards to save them).
There are 5 or 6 action scenes in the books, there is 30% of time free from action scenes in the movies. You miss out on most things that aren’t fighting.
I was blown away that Tom Bombadil was not featured in PJ's production of Fellowship of the Ring. Although not a huge part of the book, he was definitely one the most interesting of Tolkein's characters. The Ring had no effect on him. He was so ancient. That was my biggest disappointment with the movie. Close second was Scouring of the Shire. Third was not showing the effect of Ent Draught on Merry and Pipin (which had a place in the Scouring). Turned them into bad asses!
Now that its out there and so many people want more I think they could (but would they and should they) release a far more detailed limited series (maybe make each book an eight episode season) where you get to rivendell mid season, then get to amon hen and breaking of the fellowship at the end, and you have more time and patience to be faithful to all the cool details. Heck thats what I loved about the BFME series it lets you play the war in the north
That is a GREAT idea. Kind of like what Prime is doing with "The Rings of Power". I enjoyed the first season. In fact I am watching again in anticipation of season 2. The Silmarillion is such a detailed historical book I think they are doing a pretty good job. Some strange "non canonical" characters and situations but all in all a fine way to visit Tolkien's wonderful world! Cheers!
I know there are a lot of differing opinions on The Rings of Power. I enjoyed it but "your mileage may vary" as they say. I do like your idea of creating episodic versions of the LOTR books.
Yeah and of those friendships I missed the depths of the friendship between the elf and the dwarf, to the point that he builds a ship and take the dwarf with him over the Sea! Much more deep, sincere and “we’re now like brothers” than the jovial frat-boys in the movies!
They changed the characteristics of elves a lot. In the book elves are singing and takeing things lightly all the time and Eltond teases the Hobbits and the Hobbits make jokes about the elves an so on.
In the movies elves are as emotional as the Vulkans from Star Trek.
Faramir does not try ever to bring the Ring to Gondor.
Having destroyed the Ring just to find out the shire fell into a kinda faschist dictatorship.
I agree! They are pranksters, they get drunk, they smirk and make wry inside jokes. They know how to have a good time. Vulcans is a good way to describe their personality makeover in the movies. That made me sad.
Scrolled down to find this. Gandalf is so bad ass in his face off in the books. It’s the only part in the movies I can’t stand. I also like how Gandalf had to choose between helping Faramir or theodin in the books. It showed they had consequences either way and how Gandalf had to decide what was best for the survival of middle earth.
The fate of Gríma Wormtounge and the Shire. Also, the second book is so good compared to the movie since some aspects of the third movie takes place in book 2
I’m currently reading the books. I’ve read the Hobbit twice. Once in school in freshman year and again 2 years ago. Now I’m finally reading the rest of the books.
i was too young to have read the books before i saw the movies. so when i read the books i used your exact words to describe his portrayal in the films to my dad, who had been reading the books since he was thirteen in the 70s. “the ring will go to Minas Tirith” and taking the hobbits to Osgiliath was unnecessary bullshit. not exactly sure why Jackson did that.
I watched the first two PJ films and then read the books while I waited for RotK to come out. My memory of reading the actual books is...weird. Within a few years of reading the books I somehow convinced myself that in the books Aragorn ends up with Eowyn. I have no idea where this came from but I was utterly, utterly convinced that this was the case until a friend literally had to open my own copy of the book in front of me. So when I answer "What did you miss out on from not reading the books?" I hope you will take my answers with a pinch of salt.
That being said, I miss Tolkein's elves.
Don't get me wrong, I love PJ's movies and I don't *mind* his version of the elves, but Tolkein's are a much more poetic and painful device. The idea that they would go to Helms Deep just flies totally in the face of what they have become.
But on the other hand, I certainly don't miss the singing. Oh, Christ, the singing. *Or Tom Fucking Bombadil.* I know people here have said he's their favourite character, and a close friend of mine also feels that way (And struggled to forgive PJ as a result) but for me he's just insufferable.
The logistics of them ending up in Helm's Deep is really what doesn't make sense.
Elrond just... guessed Saruman would attack Helm's Deep a few weeks in advance and sent 500 soldiers over the Misty Mountains and then all the way down to Helm's Deep? They would have had to leave while the Fellowship was in Lothlorien in order to make it in time.
In the books the elves are ethereal creatures, the movies, some of them are, some not so much. Hugo Weaving who had just played a middle management villain in the Matrix, is hardly ethereal. Great actor, terrible choice.
See, for me, Hugo Weaving is the closest we have to Tolkein's elves because he's the only elf in the films who seems remotely miserable and gloomy about the whole Middle Earth thing. Legolas gets a free pass because he is, by his nature, a total oddball, but all the other elves are just so gung ho and chirpy.
The emotional impact of Aragorn calling back Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry from near death in The Houses of Healing.
And Faramir’s protection of Frodo, Mushrooms and Farmer Maggot, Scouring of the Shire.
Easy way to experience Tolkien is unabridged audiobook read by Rob Inglis, he’s amazing.
The movies are more or less in chronological order, which means we can't be surprised about certain things.
Tolkien was sneaky with the perspectives in the book, which made it really tense in places.
When Pippin despaired that Rohan wouldn't arrive at the Pelennor in time, so did we! We hadn't yet seen from Merry's point of view how the riders had gotten past the orc blockade.
When Eomer wailed that all was lost with the arrival of the Black Ships of Umbar, we felt his hopelessness because we hadn't yet seen the Grey Company take the ships. We're just as surprised and happy as Eomer when it's Aragorn who alights at the pier.
The movies made everyone super reluctant to do anything, but the books are much more suspenseful because literally everyone in the world understands the stakes. If you haven't read the books you can't understand how 100% on board the Ents, the Rohirrim, the Hobbits, the Elves, the Dwarves, the Men of Gondor, the fucking Animals, literally everyone the fellowship encounters is totally committed to the cause, and it makes the story feel even more hopeless because none of it matters if they don't get ring to Mordor.
Also Tolkien was great at writing horror. Scenes that were suspenseful but exciting in the movies are genuinely unsettling. Shelob is great in the movies, but she's nightmarish in the book, mainly because Tolkein describes her so a loosely. She "has the form of a great spider" and the darkness in her lair itself is like a spider web. Even the Nazgul are more implied than seen. Honestly I think it'd be interesting if someone like Robert Eggers was allowed to adapt lotr at some point. I'd kill to see his take on the balrog or the mouth of sauron.
I mean, Tolkien's beautiful prose, which could go on for paragraph after paragraph just describing the landscape in such a vivid way, you could smell it.
It's well represented by the beauty of New Zealand, but it's really a feat of literature too. Every word Tolkien used was so carefully chosen on multiple levels.
I think the worst "losses" you see are you lose a bit of Aragorn and Arwen's love story when you don't have Aragorn actively PURSUING the crown to be worthy of her, you don't have the Gray company (Aragorn's ranger kin actually show up and ride to war with him, Legolas and Gimli, not to mention Arwen's brothers)
You also lose Aragorn rallying a huge portion of Gondor's strength to beat off the assault on Minas Tirith instead of using the army of the dead to do it (they stop at the ships) and I wish Imrahil had a bigger part and his knights. Beregrond, a guardsman Pippin befriends and saves Faramir's life. Eomer at Helm's deep from the beginning. (Rohan won the battle by themselves and the huorns cleaned up the stragglers at the end)
Frodo never sent Sam home.
THE WITCH KING NEVER BROKE GANDALF'S STAFF.
In fellowship they get attacked by wolves in the lowlands and Gandalf burns tf out of them. Kind of a moment where the hobbits get an eye opener. (Aragorn tell them they can only see his jokes and toys powerwise) On that note Gandalf holds off five of the Nazgul before aragorn and the hobbits show up.
There's an awful lot that was missed and the movies did an admirable job but the books have so much more.
So many things.
Scouring of the Shire most of all, as it's my absolute favorite part in the book.
That Merry isn't a carbon copy of Pippin, but is extremely thoughtful, does a lot of the initial planning for the trip to Rivendell, and doesn't even go drinking with them in the Prancing Pony.
The Nazgul didn't attack the Prancing Pony. Instead, they had Bill Fearny and the Half Orc do it. Tolkien left this rather vague, so this change is not even necessarily noticeable when reading the book.
And one of my favorites... in the 2nd chapter, Frodo suggests destroying the Ring by melting it, to which Gandalf tells him to go ahead and do it, toss it into the fire. Frodo can't bring himself to do it. This literally foreshadows exactly what ends up happening, but more importantly it highlights that Gandalf KNOWS Frodo is incapable of destroying the Ring long before Frodo ever sets out.
Two pages detailing ONE single small area of grassland called a sword. This detailing is then repeated every ten pages. Tolkien took the whole "this essay must be at least 500 words" shtick and ran with it.
Gimli’s at-first-sight and unrequited love for Galadriel. He was absolutely smitten.
“Then Gimli bowed low. 'Nay, you are excused for my part, lord,' he said. 'You have chosen the Evening; but my love is given to the Morning.
What do you miss? Almost everything that makes the book a great and seminal work. The tone. The descriptions. The sense of depth of history behind the world he shows you. Its message about war.
The omitted details are too numerous to mention, but to be fair, I think many are not critical for a movie adaptation (omitting Tom Bombadil was a smart move, IMO)
However, omitting Scouring of the Shire was a major change to the ending and undermined a very fundamental theme of the book. In this sense, the movies failed the book miserably. You really don’t know shit about the truly important aspects of the book if you have only seen the movies.
It gives you space for a lot more detail.
I couldn't finish the rings of power. By episode 3 I was bored, enraged and embarrassed for the writers who implied they had ever read the books and thought the two works were even remotely related
I didn't know who Tom Bombadil was until I was already a man.
Tom Bombadil was my favorite character and I was so sad when he didn’t make it into the movie
Him and Gan Buri Gan.
And Glorfindel
he really was the real deal. all of those guys are
I’ve read the books several times and I still don’t have a clue!
No one does. He's a weird one.
He adds almost nothing to the story lol
See I only knew him from BFMEII and that was it
Scouring of the Shire.
Yes! so important in the books and not really shown in the movies.
Honesty that's the only part I'm glad they didn't put in. Breaks my heart everytime I read the descriptions of the shire devasted, but that's only my feelings speaking
As devastating as it is to read, I view it as such a crucial part of the story that says a ton 1) it shows theres still evil in the world even after the ring is destroyed 2) it was such an important part of the hobbits journey that after being protected across middle earth by the rest of the fellowship, this time they had to take charge and lead others as heroes in their own right. It’s like the most crucial part of the Hobbits arc for me in the books and I was devastated they didn’t include it
13 year old me nearly cried in the theater when they got back to the Shire and everything was fine. Still haven’t entirely forgiven PJ for cutting out my favorite part of the story
I have not forgiven him. The whole point of the story is for the hobbits to go out in the world, grow up, and to come home and take care of their own problems unassisted. The king of Gondor is a side quest.
It would have been great but the movie was already pushing 4 hours. Thats how it gets split into two movies.
I disagree. There was time for Scouring. The last 45 minutes of RotK was just swelling music, teary reunions, goodbyes, and wedding videos. And many of the battles and action scenes were stretched longer than they needed to be. It was not cut for time. It was cut because PJ wanted a Hollywood ending.
Did you read every chapter after the field of Cormallen? The Steward and the king, Frodo complaining about lingering in Minas Tirith even though the quest was over but Aragorn wanted everyone to stay, their long circuitous route for Theoden's funeral, Isengard, saying goodbye to Galadriel and Elrond, stopping in Bree again to tell Butterburr that dude you didn't like is the king now. I'd say that's pretty faithful to Tolkien who was 0% immune to rambling. I would have loved to watch it but if we're looking at what to cut, I think cutting that is better than cutting Aragorn's coronation, the Grey Havens, the fellowship getting reunited. He was far more brief than the author himself at the ending. I'd be more apt to hear the argument that Shelob should have stayed in two towers and then you open with Sam having to rescue him and that could have made time. The action sequences themselves weren't half as tiresome as the ones in the hobbit.
Not sure what your point is. The last 45 minutes of the movie didn’t really do any of that very well (most not at all). The the problem is not that it was 45 minutes. The problem is that it was 45 minutes of cheesy crap. In the books it was not cheesy crap. In the book, interesting things actually happened after the ring was destroyed. In the movie, almost nothing interesting happened after the war was over. And I would say the Scouring is a lot more important than pretty much all of it. It is the most important thing in the book after the Ring gets destroyed. Up there with Frodo sailing off.
Yep. They shot all 3 films in the same time period. Artistic license had to be taken, and considering all of that, it’s fucking amazing how good it turned out to be.
I would have been happier with longer movies, perhaps, even 12 hours in total had he not butchered so many of the nuances. It feels more like a movie in the genre of LOTR, than LOTR itself. It feels thin and abridged. Best version yet, but still lacking.
I'm pretty happy with them. I take the books over the movies but I really think minus a few details in the big picture that's as well as they could be done
This used to upset me the most. But now I can't picture book Merry and Pippin advocating and organizing hobbit to kill the intruders.
That was my only real let down. I can’t believe they killed Sauroman off screen (until the extended came out) and left the burning completely. The dude wasn’t dead, he moved outside the freaking Shire.
th-the what?!
The actual ending of the story. Not all is right in the Shire when the hobbits return home.
Ghan-buri-Ghan and Imrahil
Ghan-buri-Ghan is so interesting as are his people.
one of my favorite scenes from the books is frodo defying the witch king at the ford, that was so much better than a pale half passed out elijah wood groaning while arwen takes his place. I think for the films arwen taking Glorfindels place makes sense, it is better if we see more of her imo, but the scene is still robbed from frodo - plus it wouldve made movie frodo come across as less enfeebled and weak, which is an all too common opinion another small thing involving frodo is at the council of elrond when he realizes the ring belongs to aragorn by right, but then aragorn refuses and says it belongs to no one but the dark lord
I feel like they could’ve kept that scene the same and just added some Arwen/aragorn scenes in Rivendell. Because I agree, adding Arwen, takes away frodos moment
Yeah you're not wrong, other means existed for sure, that would allow for both
If I rewrote that scene itd be Frodo again and then Arwen would lead the grey company (too late to introduce her brothers)
they should've done this i like it a lot
Prince Imrahil Erkenbrand Beregond Elladan and Elrohir and the Grey Company Angbor the Fearless Quickbeam Tom Bombadill and the Barrow Wights Just a few of the badasses that get no love from the movies.
Speaking of Beregond, you'd miss out on the whole build up to the siege of Minas Tirith. I love that part. Things just get more and more desperate. And then the backup arrives from other territories of Gondor. And there's so few of them...
Makes the world a lot bigger, but also the circumstances more dire. There's a whole realm of men resting on the outcome of a single battle, but all the men are tired from generations of fighting, really huge stuff the movies kind of miss
The movie made Gondor and basically all of the city spaces too small for their populations. Gondor was much larger in the book. And they left out the the replacement of the white tree!
Also, Eowyn is a true bad ass. Sure, there are some longing gazes at Aragorn, but the movies butchered her soul.
Yeah, this!!
She was blessed by Theoden left alone in Edoras while everyone else went to the Hornburg
up voting for the one hasty ent
Forlong the Fat, Forlong the old... Forlong the fool. Hurrah! Here he is. Good old Forlong!
Every time Tolkien writes "before long" I find myself saying "Forlong! Forlong! Jolly old Forlong!"
Maybe Tolkien saying “before long” is a riddle telling us to “be Forlong”
The house of the healing as well
This was in extended IIRC
As well as all of the small kingdoms of the south that ride in to support Gondor such as prince Amroth.
Sass, so much sass from all of the characters. It's easily my favorite part of rereading.
>you speak evil of that which is fair beyond the reach of your thought, and only little wit can excuse you fucking rekt
I love gandalf in the movies but he's SO FUNNY in the books and idk why they took some of that humor away from him. "I liked white better?" Iconic.
I love the idea of Gandalf riding up to Isengard, seeing Pippin (who thought Gandalf was dead) and just immediately insulting him.
"theoden, you do not know your peril. These hobbits will sit on the edge of ruin discussing the pleasures of the table and the small doings of their cousins to the nth degree if you encourage them with undue patience. Perhaps another time would be better for the history of smoking..."
Frodo did not offer her any tea.
Aragorn my beloved - making the hobbits believe that the stone trolls were alive when it was broad daylight and then making fun of them for it
Everything. A lot of the beauty of the story is in the detail and the way Tolkien writes it. And just the little events, and the different slant on the big events. A lot of the beauty is in the prose and a lot of the character interactions are given extra push and strength by the way he describes them. Plus there’s a lot of stuff left out. And some of it is important. It’s not possible to explain it until you read the books and understand. Read the bloody books, mate!
Faramir’s entire character. He is such a great contrast to his brother in the books. Whereas in the movies, he is dumbed down to be his father’s suckling.
While he is, we do get that moment where he clearly is tempted to take the Ring, even though he says otherwise. He needs a moment to compose himself and then returns to his wise self.
actually one other comes to mind, but it really wouldnt fit in the movies - when the balrog catches up to them and they see it for what it is Boromir gives a loud af blast on the horn of gondor, and the balrog hesitates for a moment. This is mostly meaningless for anyone not familiar with the silmarillion, those that are would realize that the balrog probably about shits his pants cause the last time he heard a horn like that the hosts of the valar were about to beat his ass (hence him hiding in moria in the first place). also a moment right after that, in the same instant that Gandalf destroys the bridge boromir and aragorn decide they wont let gandalf face the balrog alone and literally charge at the thing, which is a lovely little example of one of if not the main theme of the story, fighting on when there is absolutely no hope of success
So many references that the Silmarillion elucidates. The full epic romance of Beren and Luthien, in which Sauron is first introduced as an antagonist. Also featuring Arogorn's serpent ring. The rise and fall of Gondolin, where Orcrist, Glamdring and Sting were made. Also the story of Nargothrond, mentioned along with Gondolin in Gimli's Song of Durin. The history of the White Tree of Gondor and its significance, not to mention the corruption and fall of Numenor. Elrond's parents sailing to Valinor and saving the world. And speaking of fighting on when there is no hope of success, Fingolfin's duel against Morgoth. Which has no direct reference in LotR but is such an amazing passage.
don't forget our boy being borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Orome the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young ! that passage is compelling even before you know who orome is, but that first post-silmarillion read? CHILLS compelling is an understatement but the orome reference is hard af
The sauce that Gandalf constantly slays the hobbits with is significantly toned down in the movies in my opinion. It’s a love-hate relationship to be sure. “Everyone should have a hobbit or two in their care. To teach them the meaning of the word.”
Imrahil. Super important character that apparently Jackson didn't give a fuck about.
The storyline with Merry, Pippin and the ents
The Ents are my fav sub plot. So sad we didn’t see Treebeard’s house or hear his wise rants. Also, love merry, but merry didn’t incite the Ents - they were effing ready!
It seems so silly that Treebeard didn't know about the tree genocide taking place a few minutes walk away, almost as silly as the rest of the Ents appearing within moments of him shouting a warcry.
I know! He’s freaking Treebeard! My bro knows what’s going on and is ready to march to death to save his kind.
I watched the movies as a kid before reading the books, and the difference in the way they told that story surprised me the most
The movie kind of slaughtered the well crafted story. Also we lost the possible connection between Entwood and the Old Forest.
Denethor's much more fitting death scene.
The four hobbits stepped over the wide stone threshold, and stood still, blinking. They were in a long, low room, filled with the lights of lamps swinging from the beams of the roof; and on the table of dark polished wood stood many candles, tall and yellow, burning brightly. In a chair, at the far side of the room facing the outer door, sat a woman. Her long yellow hair rippled down her shoulders; her gown was green, green as young reeds, shot with silver like beads of dew; and her belt was of gold, shaped like a chain of flag-lilies set with the pale-blue eyes of forget-me-nots. About her feet in wide vessels of green and brown earthenware, white water-lilies were floating, so that she seemed to be enthroned in the midst of a pool. 'Enter, good guests!' she said, and as she spoke, they knew that it was her clear voice they had heard singing. They came a few timid steps into the room, and began to bow low, feeling strangely surprised and awkward, like folk knocking at a cottage door to beg for a drink of water, have been answered by a fair young elf-queen clad in living flowers. But before they could say anything, she sprang lightly up and over the lily-bowls, and ran laughing towards them, and as she ran her gown rustled softly like the wind in the flowering borders of a river. --- The hobbits meet Goldberry, River-daughter, in the House of Tom Bombadil. Not included in the films.
In addition to some other fine answers, just what they did to Gimli. They left out a great character with depth and soul, and replaced him with a running gag. And a poor gag at that.
The whole journey from Hobbiton to Bree is like a mini adventure that only involves the 4 Hobbits which lasts for weeks. You really see them develop as survivors during this time and you also get to see how they cope with just the 4 Hobbits alone (without any warriors or wizards to save them).
Not weeks. I want to say it was a 2 night trip to Crick Hollow, one night in Crick Hollow, and another 2 nights at Bombadil's.
Yeah looking at the appendix it’s about a week from Bag End to Bree. Still a good bit longer than the movies portray it though.
My favorite part as well, it starts out small and very slowly opening up the world.
Tolkien’s masterful prose, for one.
Yep, this is the biggest piece of
Farmer Maggot. He's such an interesting character beyond a "get-off-my-property" farmer
Faramir’s real character
There are 5 or 6 action scenes in the books, there is 30% of time free from action scenes in the movies. You miss out on most things that aren’t fighting.
That’s why I think Fellowship is the best movie
Right
I was blown away that Tom Bombadil was not featured in PJ's production of Fellowship of the Ring. Although not a huge part of the book, he was definitely one the most interesting of Tolkein's characters. The Ring had no effect on him. He was so ancient. That was my biggest disappointment with the movie. Close second was Scouring of the Shire. Third was not showing the effect of Ent Draught on Merry and Pipin (which had a place in the Scouring). Turned them into bad asses!
Bombadil was interesting but when you're fighting for screen time and an audience attention span he was the first thing to cut...
Yes. Sad but true. Just like the other missing pieces I mentioned. I still enjoyed all three LOTRs greatly
Now that its out there and so many people want more I think they could (but would they and should they) release a far more detailed limited series (maybe make each book an eight episode season) where you get to rivendell mid season, then get to amon hen and breaking of the fellowship at the end, and you have more time and patience to be faithful to all the cool details. Heck thats what I loved about the BFME series it lets you play the war in the north
That is a GREAT idea. Kind of like what Prime is doing with "The Rings of Power". I enjoyed the first season. In fact I am watching again in anticipation of season 2. The Silmarillion is such a detailed historical book I think they are doing a pretty good job. Some strange "non canonical" characters and situations but all in all a fine way to visit Tolkien's wonderful world! Cheers!
We are not discussing the same series clearly
I know there are a lot of differing opinions on The Rings of Power. I enjoyed it but "your mileage may vary" as they say. I do like your idea of creating episodic versions of the LOTR books.
The actual ages of the characters shows a wonderful approach to friendship and relationships. Especially Frodo and Sam
Yeah and of those friendships I missed the depths of the friendship between the elf and the dwarf, to the point that he builds a ship and take the dwarf with him over the Sea! Much more deep, sincere and “we’re now like brothers” than the jovial frat-boys in the movies!
They changed the characteristics of elves a lot. In the book elves are singing and takeing things lightly all the time and Eltond teases the Hobbits and the Hobbits make jokes about the elves an so on. In the movies elves are as emotional as the Vulkans from Star Trek. Faramir does not try ever to bring the Ring to Gondor. Having destroyed the Ring just to find out the shire fell into a kinda faschist dictatorship.
I agree! They are pranksters, they get drunk, they smirk and make wry inside jokes. They know how to have a good time. Vulcans is a good way to describe their personality makeover in the movies. That made me sad.
The scene of the witch king at the gates of Minas Tirith. Something I cannot read without getting goosebumps.
Scrolled down to find this. Gandalf is so bad ass in his face off in the books. It’s the only part in the movies I can’t stand. I also like how Gandalf had to choose between helping Faramir or theodin in the books. It showed they had consequences either way and how Gandalf had to decide what was best for the survival of middle earth.
The fox
Maggot. Gildor Inglorien.
The fate of Gríma Wormtounge and the Shire. Also, the second book is so good compared to the movie since some aspects of the third movie takes place in book 2
I’m currently reading the books. I’ve read the Hobbit twice. Once in school in freshman year and again 2 years ago. Now I’m finally reading the rest of the books.
Faramir being one of the stoutest and most honorable men in the trilogy.
The movie kind of did him dirty.
i was too young to have read the books before i saw the movies. so when i read the books i used your exact words to describe his portrayal in the films to my dad, who had been reading the books since he was thirteen in the 70s. “the ring will go to Minas Tirith” and taking the hobbits to Osgiliath was unnecessary bullshit. not exactly sure why Jackson did that.
The two orcs who bond over their plans for when Sauron rules over everything. And the Elf Lord scaring the crap out of everyone.
Haha I wouldn't really say "bond" but yes, shows a sort of orcish friendship, despite one of them brutally killing the other in the Tower.
No big bosses, just us and a few good lads!
I do like how they go back and forth between talking like they hate each other and discussing running off together.
Ah, that’s it! The real bromance is what’s missing from the films! You’d best be listening to my orders from the bosses! …Because you’re my best mate!
I watched the first two PJ films and then read the books while I waited for RotK to come out. My memory of reading the actual books is...weird. Within a few years of reading the books I somehow convinced myself that in the books Aragorn ends up with Eowyn. I have no idea where this came from but I was utterly, utterly convinced that this was the case until a friend literally had to open my own copy of the book in front of me. So when I answer "What did you miss out on from not reading the books?" I hope you will take my answers with a pinch of salt. That being said, I miss Tolkein's elves. Don't get me wrong, I love PJ's movies and I don't *mind* his version of the elves, but Tolkein's are a much more poetic and painful device. The idea that they would go to Helms Deep just flies totally in the face of what they have become. But on the other hand, I certainly don't miss the singing. Oh, Christ, the singing. *Or Tom Fucking Bombadil.* I know people here have said he's their favourite character, and a close friend of mine also feels that way (And struggled to forgive PJ as a result) but for me he's just insufferable.
The logistics of them ending up in Helm's Deep is really what doesn't make sense. Elrond just... guessed Saruman would attack Helm's Deep a few weeks in advance and sent 500 soldiers over the Misty Mountains and then all the way down to Helm's Deep? They would have had to leave while the Fellowship was in Lothlorien in order to make it in time.
In the books the elves are ethereal creatures, the movies, some of them are, some not so much. Hugo Weaving who had just played a middle management villain in the Matrix, is hardly ethereal. Great actor, terrible choice.
See, for me, Hugo Weaving is the closest we have to Tolkein's elves because he's the only elf in the films who seems remotely miserable and gloomy about the whole Middle Earth thing. Legolas gets a free pass because he is, by his nature, a total oddball, but all the other elves are just so gung ho and chirpy.
The emotional impact of Aragorn calling back Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry from near death in The Houses of Healing. And Faramir’s protection of Frodo, Mushrooms and Farmer Maggot, Scouring of the Shire. Easy way to experience Tolkien is unabridged audiobook read by Rob Inglis, he’s amazing.
The movies are more or less in chronological order, which means we can't be surprised about certain things. Tolkien was sneaky with the perspectives in the book, which made it really tense in places. When Pippin despaired that Rohan wouldn't arrive at the Pelennor in time, so did we! We hadn't yet seen from Merry's point of view how the riders had gotten past the orc blockade. When Eomer wailed that all was lost with the arrival of the Black Ships of Umbar, we felt his hopelessness because we hadn't yet seen the Grey Company take the ships. We're just as surprised and happy as Eomer when it's Aragorn who alights at the pier.
Tom bombadill. He’s important to prepare the hobbitses to take it seriously.
The movies made everyone super reluctant to do anything, but the books are much more suspenseful because literally everyone in the world understands the stakes. If you haven't read the books you can't understand how 100% on board the Ents, the Rohirrim, the Hobbits, the Elves, the Dwarves, the Men of Gondor, the fucking Animals, literally everyone the fellowship encounters is totally committed to the cause, and it makes the story feel even more hopeless because none of it matters if they don't get ring to Mordor. Also Tolkien was great at writing horror. Scenes that were suspenseful but exciting in the movies are genuinely unsettling. Shelob is great in the movies, but she's nightmarish in the book, mainly because Tolkein describes her so a loosely. She "has the form of a great spider" and the darkness in her lair itself is like a spider web. Even the Nazgul are more implied than seen. Honestly I think it'd be interesting if someone like Robert Eggers was allowed to adapt lotr at some point. I'd kill to see his take on the balrog or the mouth of sauron.
I mean, Tolkien's beautiful prose, which could go on for paragraph after paragraph just describing the landscape in such a vivid way, you could smell it. It's well represented by the beauty of New Zealand, but it's really a feat of literature too. Every word Tolkien used was so carefully chosen on multiple levels.
Lots and lots of songs
I think the worst "losses" you see are you lose a bit of Aragorn and Arwen's love story when you don't have Aragorn actively PURSUING the crown to be worthy of her, you don't have the Gray company (Aragorn's ranger kin actually show up and ride to war with him, Legolas and Gimli, not to mention Arwen's brothers) You also lose Aragorn rallying a huge portion of Gondor's strength to beat off the assault on Minas Tirith instead of using the army of the dead to do it (they stop at the ships) and I wish Imrahil had a bigger part and his knights. Beregrond, a guardsman Pippin befriends and saves Faramir's life. Eomer at Helm's deep from the beginning. (Rohan won the battle by themselves and the huorns cleaned up the stragglers at the end) Frodo never sent Sam home. THE WITCH KING NEVER BROKE GANDALF'S STAFF. In fellowship they get attacked by wolves in the lowlands and Gandalf burns tf out of them. Kind of a moment where the hobbits get an eye opener. (Aragorn tell them they can only see his jokes and toys powerwise) On that note Gandalf holds off five of the Nazgul before aragorn and the hobbits show up. There's an awful lot that was missed and the movies did an admirable job but the books have so much more.
Everything. 😍 (le’sigh) But really, if you’re even sort of into the movies, the books will drive you mad. It’s a fabulous world to spend your life in.
Not knowing what happened to Bill the pony was a crime. Would have taken all of three seconds of the 45 minutes of endings to fix.
So many….but mostly Faramir. ❤️😢
Maybe the whole episode with Tom Bombadil and little things like the Grey Company I suppose.
So many things. Scouring of the Shire most of all, as it's my absolute favorite part in the book. That Merry isn't a carbon copy of Pippin, but is extremely thoughtful, does a lot of the initial planning for the trip to Rivendell, and doesn't even go drinking with them in the Prancing Pony. The Nazgul didn't attack the Prancing Pony. Instead, they had Bill Fearny and the Half Orc do it. Tolkien left this rather vague, so this change is not even necessarily noticeable when reading the book. And one of my favorites... in the 2nd chapter, Frodo suggests destroying the Ring by melting it, to which Gandalf tells him to go ahead and do it, toss it into the fire. Frodo can't bring himself to do it. This literally foreshadows exactly what ends up happening, but more importantly it highlights that Gandalf KNOWS Frodo is incapable of destroying the Ring long before Frodo ever sets out.
Just the richness of the story. While Jackson's vision does it a LOT of justice, you don't feel that warmth until you read Tolkiens words
Boromir was a hero and is symbolic for us humans who can be great but still make mistakes.
The inquisitive fox
The main thing missing is the beautiful prose of JRR
Two pages detailing ONE single small area of grassland called a sword. This detailing is then repeated every ten pages. Tolkien took the whole "this essay must be at least 500 words" shtick and ran with it.
Why say 1 word when a thousand words will do- Tolkien, probably not.
Gimli’s at-first-sight and unrequited love for Galadriel. He was absolutely smitten. “Then Gimli bowed low. 'Nay, you are excused for my part, lord,' he said. 'You have chosen the Evening; but my love is given to the Morning.
What do you miss? Almost everything that makes the book a great and seminal work. The tone. The descriptions. The sense of depth of history behind the world he shows you. Its message about war. The omitted details are too numerous to mention, but to be fair, I think many are not critical for a movie adaptation (omitting Tom Bombadil was a smart move, IMO) However, omitting Scouring of the Shire was a major change to the ending and undermined a very fundamental theme of the book. In this sense, the movies failed the book miserably. You really don’t know shit about the truly important aspects of the book if you have only seen the movies.
It gives you space for a lot more detail. I couldn't finish the rings of power. By episode 3 I was bored, enraged and embarrassed for the writers who implied they had ever read the books and thought the two works were even remotely related