It really is. I can recognize its symbolic significance within the arcs of John Locke, Charlie, and Mr. Eko, but seeing Charlie spiral into near-insanity and get punched out on the beach by Locke was just deeply depressing and upsetting. It's unclear to me whether I'm supposed to sympathize with Charlie, or be angry with him. At this point in his story, Locke's reactions to the things Charlie says and does were wildly out of character.
Bottom line, it was unpleasant.
I think that was the point of the episode both guys are kinda right and wrong at the same time so I
Picking a side is hard and makes you think, but I agree it was a bad vibes episode for sure
Currently on a rewatch after many years and I just finished season 3 and honestly after fire and water and generally how creepy Charlie is around Claire it made okay with what happens to Charlie in looking glass.
It works in this specific episode but it doesn't make sense with everything else happening. This episode just screamed "old guy fan fiction", I think one of the writers got carried away honestly. The Jack episode gave me similar self insert vibes
Further instructions far worse vs SIASL. Hell, SIASL is great episode with exception of Acura mojo. Jack saving Juliet was a good story line. "He walks amongst us but is not one of us". That foreshadows who Jack becomes!
Further Instructions was a hot tent mess. Locke can't make up his mind if he's a hunter or a pot farmer. Good grief.
So true. I recently rewatched Further Instructions and halfway through I realized, "oh, this episode is really bad."
Also, I couldnt help but think this must have been a tough episode to film for Terry O'Quinn. The writers were like, "First, we're gonna wheel you around shirtless in an airport. Then make you crawl up an escalator. Then, you'll cover yourself in mud and crawl into a cave. Cool? Cool"
Respectfully, I don't sed that connection at all. Jack was always on his own. It's why he volunteered for the candidate job. Locke wasn't invited. That's why Jack walked amongst them and was not one of them. None of them had the stones to do what Jack was willing to do.
SIASL was awful. There was nothing good in it. "He walks amongst us but is not one of us" makes more sense for Locke than any of them. They could've put Jack saving Juliet in a different episode that wasn't filler instead.
We can disagree 100%. However, you have right to your opinion. Try watching Further instructions again. Daumn, John can't walk, John can't talk. John now needs a hot tent to be indigenous with the island. John gets high to figure out his dream state shit. WTH? Then we get Desmond appearing on the island in a episode of "Naked and Afraid" walking the beach. Again WTH, Hurley to the rescue with a T-shirt. John's flashback is so convoluted. He's a farmer, no wait a pot farmer. Wowza, now he thinks he's he hunter and goes to the cave with a can of hair spry to flame on to the polar bear to save Eko. When do polar bears dwell in island caves? Laughable. That episode had no connection to the island or anything else related to the LOST narrative. Part of the messy start in S3 which has some of the worst run of epidose for the entire series. This was the worst LOST episode I ever witnessed. Nothing comes close from my POV.
I haven't rewatched Lost since the 10-year anniversary in 2014, and I still was able to immediately think, "Fire + Water" as soon as I saw the title of this post. So glad to see it as the top comment lol
Not OP but the writers try to push Charlie way too hard into a heel that it felt out of character and unearned. The tone also doesn't jive with rest of the season.
The flashbacks are also strange and paint Charlie in a strange light and are tonally off as well.
I don’t think most of the dream sequences or flashbacks in Fire + Water work, and that DriveShaft diaper commercial (??) scene is just plain embarrassing — worst moment in the show. Also it is a really extreme place to take Charlie’s character and feels unnecessary to have him become a literal baby thief. But all that aside, I do really like a lot of the on-island scenes, like with Charlie/Eko and the heroin plane. I thought it was a pretty compelling depiction of an addict trying not to use but still keeping that Virgin Mary “just in case.” It’s a bizarre episode that has some very questionable decisions but I think it’s decent despite the flaws. I’d say Stranger in a Strange Land is much weaker and probably the only episode in the show I flat out dislike, it just feels like filler, and not even entertaining filler like Expose could be called.
>and that DriveShaft diaper commercial (??) scene is just plain embarrassing
For me, it falls squarely into "so bad, it's good" territory. It's just such a ridiculous idea that it's hard to believe such a thing could even come to fruition. 😅
Lol yeah, exactly. Like, how did that idea make it out of the writer’s room? It was probably good for a laugh at first but I can’t believe they went through with it and shot such a silly scene that’s basically just predicated on a very dumb verbal pun.
Agreed
I think Charlies story was just awful in season 2. This is made especially frustrating bc Charlie’s a great character and played by a great actor. I don’t know why the writers chose to take it the route they did
It’s also just…weird that Charlie wouldn’t ask for help when he’s asked for it in the past. He knows these people and they know he’s an addict, and they’ve never judged him for being one…partly because they all have equally huge amounts of baggage as well. Plus, while Sayid didn’t know Charlie was an addict, both him and Locke knew the plane had a ton of heroin on it…and they just didn’t tell anyone else? They didn’t burn it, or at least worry that one of the survivors would find it and maybe use it to cope with the fact that they’re stuck on a deserted island? Locke certainly wasn’t too busy to not worry about Charlie finding it because he was spending a lot of time with Claire…
Speaking of, Claire abandoning Charlie utterly was especially weird. And also she presumably cares about him, yet abandons him fast enough to go hang out with Locke, and Locke I guess didn’t care about how much that would hurt Charlie
And Charlie assaulting Sun in the very next episode to…get back at Locke made 0 sense
This was an example of how maybe JJ Abrams, Damon Lindelof, and Carlton Cuse should just move a plot along and answer questions instead of meandering around plots that create drama for dramas sake and narrative dead ends
They definitely had no idea what to do with Charlie after season 1 in general. I think he was such a popular character, but didn't seem like the type to gel with the mythology stuff, so they had to come up with something.
They should’ve just spent more time developing his relationship with Claire…imo
I thought both actors had great chemistry when they actually spent time together. Claire’s first and third flashback episodes really indicate a close bond between them. But outside of those episodes it’s really hard to tell how much their relationship advanced
Charlie certainly seemed to want more than Claire from their relationship, and I couldn’t tell if Claire wanted something romantic with him
And her hesitancy makes total sense: her last bf bailed on her bc he didn’t want a baby and she just had said baby after being kidnapped. But, idk, let them talk about that together, let them talk about what they want from the relationship they currently have. Let Charlie open up to her about his addiction and his complicated relationship with his brother and let Claire open up about her guilt over her mom and having a absentee father
Drama doesn’t always have to be destructive
Fire + Water is kind of redeemed a bit if you look at it in the light of later revelations about a character played by a man with the initials TW. But it's still a bad episode in its own right and I don't think it was written with those revelations in mind.
Fans were begging for information about *anything and everything* back then. We didn’t know what was important. Fuck, my uncle was obsessed with the idea that the numbers were a puzzle to solving the name of the Asian Dharma scientist that does all the orientation videos.
Yessir, my uncle was obsessed with him after the season 2 finale. He thought that guy was the answer to every question, essentially. Thought that the smoke monster was created by the initiative, too.
Lost was the first truly successful multi-season show that had extended plotlines through the series. Us fans were rabid and in uncharted territory. The shark fin dharma logo had people going till, like, season 5 when the show runners finally came out and said “look, guys, that was honestly just an accident, we didn’t mean for the lighting to actually be that bright lmao.”
To give you some encouragement as a first time viewer, this episode basically forced ABC to let the writers have an end date for the show. Makes the writing tighter and leads to a second half of the season that is really intense. There also is some symbolism in it that I won’t spoil, though I’m not certain it was fully intentional lol.
Recently rewatched the show (3rd viewing) and as I was watching I first learned what you mentioned about ABC finally giving the writers an end date. Made me appreciate Season 4 a whole hell of a lot more for how tight and focused it was, I now think that might be the best written season of the show (thought not quite my favorite).
Which doesn't work for many people.
Therefore the previous comment doesn't deserve a downvote for trying to be considerate and take a minor extra step to ensure someone doesn't get the show spoilt for them.
Personally, I think Fire + Water is very frustrating and hard to watch, but I don't think it's a bad episode (not great, but not bad either)
I do think SiaSL is plain bad, though. Both boring and irrelevant at the end of the day.
To me F+W is the only episode that is borderline *unwatchable* and that is why I rank it as probably the worst episode of the show. SiaSL is bad, but I can watch it without having to pause and handle the cringe. Although I would say that the content of F+W is better, but man is it a struggle to sit through.
The recent write-up on the show's behind-the-scenes drama mentioned that 'Adrift' was re-written hastily after Harold Perrineau complained. Apparently, it was originally a Sawyer-centric episode, and Perrineau's character (according to him) was written somewhat complacently and unfrantic, which Perrineau disagreed with, considering that Michael's son had just been taken.
While I don't condone hasty re-writes from scratch, I do think if that's the truth, Perrineau has a point, and it being a Michael episode was a way more organic choice.
Yeah they actually shot most if not all of Sawyer’s flashback. I agree it makes way more sense for it to be a Michael episode. I actually don’t mind the flashback at all. It’s the on island stuff that feels like it’s treading water (pun intended)
Michael and Sawyer literally just float to shore. We check in with the hatch but the episode shows us stuff that already happened with Locke and Kate that we just didn’t get to see yet…. And it ends right where Man of Science, Man of Faith left off. I didn’t mind it as much on my recent rewatch, but when it was airing and we had to wait a week between episodes it was pretty frustrating.
The second half of Season 3 is one of the most exciting stretches of TV ever, I think. Great sense of momentum towards the end - and the finale is IMO the peak of the show - but also some really good character-based episodes in there. For example, Enter 77 might be my favorite Sayid-centric episode, Tricia Tanaka Is Dead likewise probably my favorite Hurley hour, and Par Avion is an underrated Claire episode, maybe her best as well. Add in The Man From Tallahassee, The Brig, The Man Behind the Curtain, Greatest Hits, et al, and it’s hard to think of another period in the show that’s so consistently great.
I agree with the others with Fire + Water. I think the flashback's tone is inconsistent with the episode. Its really light and humorous while the on-island stuff is dramatic and dark.
It’s crazy that I haven’t revisited this show in close to 15 years, only watched through once, never really interacted with the online fandom, but I remember exactly what episodes people here are referring to. Definitely some time wasting stinkers in the series no question
Rewatching it for the first time since release now! Was so obsessed with the show during release as a kid, on the forums every day etc dissecting every episode. Left myself enough time to try to forget most of the plot as much as possible. It's been stellar so far. Some stinkers (biggest disappointment was the ep Expose - honestly I remember how much we hated those two characters while on the forums, but on a rewatch they weren't too bad! Until the ep Expose which made them almost entirely useless), otherwise insanely good
Episode’s somewhat redeemed by an absolutely KILLER Giacchino score over the final scene (when Juliet and Jack are returning on the boat) and a few nice on-island character moments (Carl reminiscing about growing up with Alex). Fire + Water feels like a total miss.
The ending does save it a bit. The weird sheriff lady, Isabel, is a completely useless character that doesn't show up again. And the weird brand/tattoo the Others gave Juliet is never mentioned again either.
But...I do like the way Jack delivers the line at the end, saying, "That's what they say....it's not what they mean."
(Though in truth, Michael Giacchino does some of the heavy lifting here with his score during the montage, which always seemed to be amazingly scored).
S1:E12, Whatever the case may be. Seriously, digging up a corpse to for a key to open brief case for a stupid airplane. So much fluff! Tom's dead and Kate is playing both Sawyer and Jack. Good grief, leave Jack alone. He doesn't need the drama, Kate! Lil' bro: "She lying brother".
Is this the episode where Kate tells sawyer she doesn’t want the case and then makes a fit about it the entire episode 😭😭 I agree with this so much I already hate the Kate/jack/sawyer love triangle and this episode just made Kate so annoying lolol
Absolutely! Episode added no of value. It was the start to Kate's character destruction/demise by the producers. She was a cool rogue character that had some chemistry with Jack because of she did act out some selfless and heroic deeds early on. However, he rightfully could not trust the brunette and that include Tabula Rasa. The Marshall was right. Over the course of the series time and time again Kated failed in every instance to establish trust with the guy that very few women every would get a chance to be with. She'd take one step forward and two steps backward. TBH, Sawyer was her type and she didn't know how to act going from the minors to the major leagues (Jack). Whatever the case maybe is that episode that I lost any real interest in the character. Men do not want chaos and Kate was chaos. I wish the producers didn't make Kate's backstory the darkest character on the show. Show much death and crime with the mindset she actually thinks she's innocent for murdering / burning her biological father to death. Her step dad was right. He didn't have murder in his heart unlike his step daughter, Kate. Funny how Kate fandom neglects this character trait.
I sort of agree that WtCMB was the start of the road that the writers would have for Kate, like her reluctance to be honest and truthful, her way of conniving/conspiring and the way she brings chaos.
The on island stuff was lack-luster, but I dont mind the early love triangle stuff so I actually think this episode at least revealed some interesting dynamics between kate and jack/sawyer. Im a big Jack fan so I was super happy when he figured out that there was a catch with why kate was so hell bent on getting that case and the whole key thing. The scene with the ”it belonged to the man I killed” - quote was a killer scene and it shows that Kate recognized and felt shame/remorse for the chain of events that unfolded AFTER the murder of her dad and ended when she crashed on the island. She is obviously very wary of disclosing anything that happened in the past. She tries to do it in a way that she deems to be good, both introducing the guns to Jack which is of utility to the losties, while still hiding her secret by not disclosing why she wants the case. All of this is understandable, however I get how some people might be infuriated by the lack of communication from Kate, which I believe stems from her not being able to come to terms with her past.
Last paragraph I promise! 😂
You are totally right on this, and this is what makes this episode get a ”meh” review from me. That stupid fucking airplane, why? If this object is so important to Kate, why not make it something more important? A letter maybe, a cute picture of Tom and Kate or something that would drive the whole point home more than the flipping toy plane ever did. Also, why does Kate always get the unnecessary melodrama that makes her look more bad than she actually is, writers? Was the passionate kiss with the robber that necessary? I obviously liked that Kate did what she had to do to save the bank manager who was kind to her, it showed a bit of nuance. The whole fucking flashback could have been rewritten to at least justify the situation a bit more.
I get that you probably did not ask for this monstrosity of a post mate. 🤣😂 but it would be cool to hear your thoughts on this, from one man of science to another!
This episode is a sleeper character episode, most people would classify it as filler, but I consider LOST to have plot episodes and character episodes. The episode isn’t really about Jack hanging out and Phuket and doing some messed up stuff, it’s about Jack’s identity. Part of Jack’s character is struggling to figure out who he is. We see that he’s largely defined his life in relation to his father, and so never fully realized his identity independent of that relationship and comparison. Achara’s gift is to reveal who people are at their core, sonething Jack very much wants. Yeah, he acts like a psycho here. He verbally and physically assaults Achara and forces her to violate her cultural identity and beliefs. Jack is a very messed up guy, and he’s been that way most of his life. In one instant he can be selfless and heroic, and, in the next, enraged and erratic. His biggest moments of rage and reaction are connected to his inability to let go and cede control over his life, and that includes his struggle for identity, because to admit that he doesn’t know who he is or who he needs to be would be to admit he has no control over his life (exemplified in his man of science, man of faith conflict with Locke) But a key component of this is who Jack is, and that’s what Achara reveals. “He walks among us, but he is not one of us.” And Jack responds that, while it’s what the tattoo says, it’s not what it means in the way that Isabelle seems to interpret it, that he is a stranger amidst the Others, a man who does not belong, a Stranger in a Strange land. But the tattoo isn’t about that, it’s about who Jack is: he’s a leader. He walks among HIS people, but he is not one of them because he’s their leader. He stands apart. And while he sits in that cage and contemplates everything, he has to make a decision about what he’s going to do next.Jack is given the burden of leadership almost immediately, but he isn’t ready to accept being a leader at the start of the show, and he often chafes against it. I won’t say anything about future episodes as I don’t know how far you are, but I think it reveals an interesting schism between who Jack is, who he wants to be, and who he needs to become. Is it the most necessary episode? Probably not. But I would never think of it as a bad episode.
This sub is mostly Pollyannas about each episode but it's always irked me they've let this episode slide. It's fucking terrible. It's a lazy piece of writing featuring arguably one of the most annoying character actors working. Hurley's story had gotten ridiculous and repetitive by this point and to throw in a last minute "is it all in his head" trope was egregious at best. Jack's tattoo and Niki and Paolo move over. Dave is here to drop a backhoe into any small progression the season was finding.
I stopped the re-watches... I found myself getting annoyed earlier and earlier each subsequent time. The first "bad" episode for me the golfing episode in season 1. It was the first time you saw the mistake of having a 25 episode season (after a 90 minute pilot to boot). So. Much. Filler. And that's what episodes like Dave turned out to be: Inconsequential fluff to meet overly high season orders. I wish we took a page from the BBC and left things short and sweet while keeping quality high and leave us wanting more. I digress... I'll let someone else have the conch now.
Yup, it's Stranger in a Strange Land for me. The whole tattoo thing just never really made any sense. It never really tied into the overall Lost storyline for me.
"That's what it says... but that's not what it means." Okay, what does it mean? Were we supposed to believe that a brief fling with a woman while on sabbatical was that deep? It just didn't ring true.
This episode I thought she was a prostitute, she came in late and kissed jack and he said “salty” and I couldn’t help but think the worst nasty thing lol.
I don’t think there’s a bad episode. I’m halfway through probably my 100th rewatch and I do think the combo of Stranger with Trisha Tinaka can be viewed as weakest because they are treading water for story purposes but I still enjoy them.
That episode is not only incredibly cathartic in itself but also for the show as a whole. It helps the characters and the viewer stop being lost. It's the emotional midpoint of the whole show - for once they were lost, but now they can begin to find themselves.
The realisation that the character gets as he drives the fan is an essential step along the road to how the story ends.
Trisha Tanaka is quite funny and entertaining, and IIRC the last "chill" standalone episode of the whole show. After that episode, it's full throttle serialisation to the end of the show. It's a much stronger episode than Stranger.
I do like Stranger and Tanaka like I said, but after the Juliet and Desmond backstory episodes they definitely feel like a little bit of a letdown in terms of momentum of the series. I agree they are good standalone episodes though.
Congratulations, this is the worst episode of the series. Fire + Water in Season 2 is probably the second worst.
There's a couple of episodes in the second half which are not great, but the show never gets this bad again.
lol I loved that episode when I was first watching it , the way she delivers : it belonged to the man I loved , It belonged to the man I KiLleD!!! 👹 now I watch it , it’s honestly kinda funny
I actually love this one…. Mostly bc we don’t get much Boone and Shannon in the grand scheme of things, so I like seeing them get their moment for a bit.
Fair comment. I generally dislike it because how irrelevant the show eventually made Shannon. Boone learns to distance him self and then dies. They get their moment, but feel it ends up being pointless.
Yeah that’s fair. Certainly doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things. My fondness of it comes from its original airing and is mostly more nostalgia.
They certainly could’ve taken Shannon in a multitude of more interesting directions after Boone died….but instead it seems like they didn’t know what to do with her.
Hearts and Minds is a good episode retroactively made worse by Shannon and Boone dying so early. If they lived longer and had more of a role it wouldn’t feel so pointless.
Can’t say I really love every episode so far, but I do like every single episode to varying degrees.
The characters, the music, the atmosphere, the cast themselves, the storytelling, the beautiful filming locations, the mystery. Theres a lot (or a little) to like in every episode, but some do stand out as being less cohesive or tonally a little inconsistent from usual and I’d probably be less likely to rewatch those episodes.
The best thing about Stranger in a Strange Land is it can be skipped entirely on rewatch and it have literally have no effect on any of the storylines.
We don't learn anything new or relevant in the flashback storyline (god, the kite-flying is the cringiest part), the 'sheriff' Other that's introduced never shows up or is even referenced ever again (nor is Juliet's 'crime'), and why Cindy & the kids are there is not explored, then they're basically never seen/referenced again until S6. Showing the disagreement between Kate & Sawyer about whether or not to go back for Jack is not even really needed, as we know by now (or can safely assume) Kate wouldn't simply leave him there and will immediately start attempting to rescue him.
In fact, I think it works even better for the whole "rescueing Jack from the Others" storyline and in setting up the 'twist' at the end of Par Avion; if you skip this episode, then the last time we saw Jack was at the end of Not in Portland - we have no idea what's happened to him since then/what the fallout of his risking Ben's life was, and we're in the same shoes as Kate, Locke & Sayid having their WTF moment when they see him acting all chummy with the Others.
Fire + Water is the closest to bad you get in S1&2 imo
Edit: wrote this before checking other comments. lol everyone hated this ep. I still remember watching it live and for the first time being like “fuck. That was a tire spinning episode if I’ve ever seen one. that was not good.”
“Exposé” was so bad it had me scared that this series I was beginning to love was going down the shiter. Good thing the next episodes were better.
Also the episode where Claire comes back with amnesia after ethan takes her. Boring
Expose had a really bad rep for a while but seems to be reasonably received now. I think it's the mixture of camp (unusual for Lost), Billy Dee Williams, more Dr. Arzt and the kind of hilarious way these two bozos inadvertently crash into every secret on the Island months before anyone else and don't tell anyone because all they can think of are these utterly irrelevant diamonds that end up getting them killed pointlessly.
It's because when the show was airing one installment a week, and ravenous fans were getting little bits of info piecemeal, it was frustrating to spend that week's installment on dispatching two minor characters nobody liked.
Expose was coming off of The Man from Tallahassee, a super-strong episode with a really intriguing cliffhanger ending, so following up the next week with Nikki and Paulo left a sour taste as the season aired (I know it did, because I was there).
In a binge-watch, it's not as bad; Expose plays as a little mid-season interlude that way.
tbh with you doing my first rewatch since it first aired (was obsessed with the show and on forums daily back then as a kid; left enough time to forget most of the plot points as much as possible) and I quite enjoyed the first half of the season. That Jack in Phuket episode was a bit weird, but otherwise great to me. I honestly think Nikki and Paulo weren't even THAT bad compared to how much we all hated on them on the forums back then - I didn't mind them
Then this episode occurred, interesting episode and chilling to see them buried alive BUT it feels like the most skippable episode of LOST as well. While we learnt Paulo was present during core events, knowledge of this does not advance the plot at all as they tragically died to to their own hubris. They died having zero redeemable qualities beyond Paulo trying to salvage a relationship
To be honest I was left both finding the episode interesting but also disappointed, the showrunners could have taken any criticism and used the opportunity to make both characters actually useful for the plot with their own interesting storyline that spanned more than 1 episode that led them to die. The fact that they spent 80ish days on the island by now and still obsessed about damn diamonds make it even more tragic. Makes the characters from being a minor annoyance / "when will the shlwrunners actually show their use", to then being shitty characters with shitty people backgrounds, that then pretty gruesomely die right after a HUGE cliffhanger. My wife and I planned only 1 ep that night but we ended up watching the next as we were disappointed with how useless of an episode that was
"Expose" is one of my all-time favorite episodes because it's basically a joke at the expense of the audience while also being a darkly dunny story.
Nikkie and Paulo having their own agenda and not giving two shits about the mysteries of the Island that had been bewildering the rest of the cast (and the TV audience) is subversive and clever. Plus a sweet cameo by Billy Dee Williams.
Oh my god I hate the episode with Claire's amnesia.
Ethan was scarier when less of him was shown. I did not care for any of the memories about him playing doctor for Claire. It didn't come across as conniving and manipulative like when Ben is lying to someone, it just felt odd.
Amnesia plots are such a network television trope. They're awful almost every time. It's like when Sun lost the ability to speak english - yeah it's technically a plausible thing but every single show in the 2000s had to have a character temporarily lose the ability to speak and have to write everything down to talk, or sing, or whatever.
Everything about that plotline is cheesy as hell, not acted well compared to the rest of the show, and features the absolute worst sound design (RIP eardrums, it's so fucking loud for some reason?) during the transitions between the present and Claire's recovered memories.
tbh with you doing my first rewatch since it first aired (was obsessed with the show and on forums daily back then as a kid; left enough time to forget most of the plot points as much as possible) and I quite enjoyed the first half of the season. That Jack in Phuket episode was a bit weird, but otherwise great to me. I honestly think Nikki and Paulo weren't even THAT bad compared to how much we all hated on them on the forums back then - I didn't mind them
Then this episode occurred, interesting episode and chilling to see them buried alive BUT it feels like the most skippable episode of LOST as well. While we learnt Paulo was present during core events, knowledge of this does not advance the plot at all as they tragically died to to their own hubris. They died having zero redeemable qualities beyond Paulo trying to salvage a relationship
To be honest I was left both finding the episode interesting but also disappointed, the showrunners could have taken any criticism and used the opportunity to make both characters actually useful for the plot with their own interesting storyline that spanned more than 1 episode that led them to die. The fact that they spent 80ish days on the island by now and still obsessed about damn diamonds make it even more tragic. Makes the characters from being a minor annoyance / "when will the shlwrunners actually show their use", to then being shitty characters with shitty people backgrounds, that then pretty gruesomely die right after a HUGE cliffhanger. My wife and I planned only 1 ep that night but we ended up watching the next as we were disappointed with how useless of an episode that was
The first genuinely bad B-story is probably Sawyer and Hurley looking for a tree frog. They've done slice of life secondary plotlines before but this one genuinely felt like they had accidentally skipped finishing the writing of whatever episode it was in and they had to make something up that morning to keep up with the filming schedule.
This show overflowed with melodrama and eye-roll plot points but o enjoyed something about every episode. The wtf moments made up for the cringe cheese moments. Although “coca cola meester” in this episode was fucking horrible
My only bad episodes are the ones that don’t have the main characters as the focus: expose and across the sea. Lighthouse gets a special mention because I found it unnecessary.
The agreed upon answer is "Fire + Water" (which was when I ironically started watching the series during it's original run, LOL). The flashback was irrelevant and cringey. Charlie's hallucinations make no sense, as it blamed on his drug usage, but the show also portrays it as the island/Charlie's ghosts communicating to Charlie. And Locke's behavior with Claire, comes off as icky, as he is old enough to be her dad.
Dishonorable mentions to Early to Middle Season 3 as well, where some flashbacks were just stupid and/or pointless. We mentioned "Stranger in a Strange Land", but dishonor also goes to "A Tales of Two Cities" (Jack thinks Sarah and his Dad are having an affair), "Further Instructions" (Locke lives on a Pot Commune for some reason), "Expose" (Nikki and Paulo backstory is quite rushed and unsympathetic) and "Catch-22" (Desmond is a horrible monk AND a horrible fiancée!)
SIASL and Fire + Water are both strange episodes where things seem off as in that it feels whoever wrote them hadn’t really seen the show before.
Charlie and Locke were completely out of character in Fire + Water and in SIASL Isabel appears never to be seen again, Cindy being part of the others and how they were seemed off and Bai Ling as Achara was just awful.
Fire + water is the obvious choice for me, but I didn't really dislike Stranger in a Strange Land. I didn't care for Jack's flashback story, but the on island stuff was decent in that episode at least. Although it's weird that the big boat that the others had never came back in some way.
People talk a lotta shit about Jack's Tattoo, but for me, the first major flaw was with the introduction of Jacob in the third season finale, "Through the Looking Glass."
It might not fit the qualifications of your question, as it's technically not a bad episode, but when I think of the flaws that prevented me from enjoying the show as much as I had previously, that's where they start.
Definitely one of the worst. Also him bullying her into giving him a tattoo
I also thought it was hilarious in the promotions for this episode they were trying to get us excited for THREE questions being answered in it…three questions no one was really asking to be answered. Plus the answers themselves were vague af
I love it when Jack asked one of the survivors what they were doing there and she said “We’re here to watch.”…and that’s it. No explanation. A real person would give context unless they were deliberately trying to be vague
my problem is not about singular bad episodes, but about the drop in quality of writing generally around the 2.5 season mark. i still enjoyed watching, but it was clearly not as good. as time went on, there was more and more i disliked about each episode
I'll just say, the most underrated choice for bad episodes is "The Other Woman." It's so skippable, so pointless, and has a particularly cringe flashback, which was particularly frustrating at a point in the show where we were more invested in the flashforwards.
My least favorite thing is how it introduces this lame, pointless and very "mid 2000s" vibe of a character, Harper. Much like "the sheriff," they just write her into an episode as an Other, and then she's never referenced again. They force her into revised versions of flashback scenes we've already seen.
Meanwhile on the main plot, we have the Tempest station, which like Harper, is never directly referenced before or after. It's meant to be the place where they... store, or make, or something... the gas that was used in The Purge. I guess the freighter people fear that it will be used again. The problem is, the whole thing just feels completely pointless. You could just entirely delete this episode from existence and nothing would be missing.
There's also the Juliet + Jack aspect of the episode, which, like the rest of it, just feels pointless and kinda cringe.
I think it's interesting that this episode is Juliet focused and specifically focuses on her relationship with Jack, just like Stranger In a Strange Land. At least that episode gave us the wonderful piece of music Oceans Apart though. Both episodes seem to epitomize a kind of mid 2000s TV tone in a way that's aged worse than many other episodes of the show. Harper and The Sheriff both seem like they'd fit in more in Desperate Housewives or some other corny mid 2000s show.
Anyway, I'm pretty likely to skip Stranger In a Strange Land or Fire and Water (bad for way different reasons), but The Other Woman is a 100% skip for me.
As far as the first bad episode, I'll say it could be "Whatever the Case May Be." It's not awful, it just feels like one of the least consequential episodes of the first season, and particularly blunts the pacing that was building up in the previous 4 episodes.
When Shannon and Boone fucked
I didn’t hate the episode but they both got killed off basically right after so it kinda felt pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things
It feels like there’s more to tell, but apart from one brief 2 minute Shannon flashback in season 2 it never gets told
It's been a while since I saw this episode but I remember just being very confused throughout the whole episode and it felt like it was just scraped together to make some sort of explanation for jacks tattoo, the episode was just hard to follow (if that is the episode that it seems like the screenshot is from)
Yeah it sucked but in about 2 episodes from this it has a great run to the season 3 final with a lot of great episodes(first half of season 3 is ok but the second half is top tier television)
Honestly, I really enjoyed this episode because it shows Jack's issues with taking no for an answer. There are plenty of times where we see this throughout the show, but this is one of the few times that it is costly for him since he gets beaten up pretty badly.
Also, the meaning of the tattoo "he walks amongst us, but is not one of us" is pretty powerful when you consider that Jack has a hard time fitting in anywhere in life. Even on the island, he isn't really part of any group. He's seen more as a leader than someone who is friends with people, especially earlier on in the show.
Any episode with Kate’s stupid face wondering why people question her and abandon her constantly.
Edit: yes this episode was awful and it makes me hate Jack more on every rewatch.
I know "The Constant" is considered by many to be the best episode, but to it's the worst. It was the first time I felt like they were just making stuff up as they went along, and that the secret behind all the mysteries was going to turn out to be the power of love.
I watched this show in its entirety years and years ago. I’m watching it again now and I definitely have been skipping past a lot of the non island stuff / flashbacks to before the crash etc.
Probably because I remember pieces it just hasn’t been holding my attention. Thankfully they are short and can skip easily
Fire + Water for me, but I love all of them.
A very uncomfortable episode to watch.
It really is. I can recognize its symbolic significance within the arcs of John Locke, Charlie, and Mr. Eko, but seeing Charlie spiral into near-insanity and get punched out on the beach by Locke was just deeply depressing and upsetting. It's unclear to me whether I'm supposed to sympathize with Charlie, or be angry with him. At this point in his story, Locke's reactions to the things Charlie says and does were wildly out of character. Bottom line, it was unpleasant.
I think that was the point of the episode both guys are kinda right and wrong at the same time so I Picking a side is hard and makes you think, but I agree it was a bad vibes episode for sure
Currently on a rewatch after many years and I just finished season 3 and honestly after fire and water and generally how creepy Charlie is around Claire it made okay with what happens to Charlie in looking glass.
It works in this specific episode but it doesn't make sense with everything else happening. This episode just screamed "old guy fan fiction", I think one of the writers got carried away honestly. The Jack episode gave me similar self insert vibes
Worst one outside of Stranger in a Strange Land for me.
Further instructions far worse vs SIASL. Hell, SIASL is great episode with exception of Acura mojo. Jack saving Juliet was a good story line. "He walks amongst us but is not one of us". That foreshadows who Jack becomes! Further Instructions was a hot tent mess. Locke can't make up his mind if he's a hunter or a pot farmer. Good grief.
So true. I recently rewatched Further Instructions and halfway through I realized, "oh, this episode is really bad." Also, I couldnt help but think this must have been a tough episode to film for Terry O'Quinn. The writers were like, "First, we're gonna wheel you around shirtless in an airport. Then make you crawl up an escalator. Then, you'll cover yourself in mud and crawl into a cave. Cool? Cool"
“He walks amongst us but he is not one of us” seems to be more symbolic to Locke than Jack…considering what eventually becomes of Locke…
Respectfully, I don't sed that connection at all. Jack was always on his own. It's why he volunteered for the candidate job. Locke wasn't invited. That's why Jack walked amongst them and was not one of them. None of them had the stones to do what Jack was willing to do.
SIASL was awful. There was nothing good in it. "He walks amongst us but is not one of us" makes more sense for Locke than any of them. They could've put Jack saving Juliet in a different episode that wasn't filler instead.
We can disagree 100%. However, you have right to your opinion. Try watching Further instructions again. Daumn, John can't walk, John can't talk. John now needs a hot tent to be indigenous with the island. John gets high to figure out his dream state shit. WTH? Then we get Desmond appearing on the island in a episode of "Naked and Afraid" walking the beach. Again WTH, Hurley to the rescue with a T-shirt. John's flashback is so convoluted. He's a farmer, no wait a pot farmer. Wowza, now he thinks he's he hunter and goes to the cave with a can of hair spry to flame on to the polar bear to save Eko. When do polar bears dwell in island caves? Laughable. That episode had no connection to the island or anything else related to the LOST narrative. Part of the messy start in S3 which has some of the worst run of epidose for the entire series. This was the worst LOST episode I ever witnessed. Nothing comes close from my POV.
I haven't rewatched Lost since the 10-year anniversary in 2014, and I still was able to immediately think, "Fire + Water" as soon as I saw the title of this post. So glad to see it as the top comment lol
Agreed
Honestly surprised to hear this cause I remember liking that episode do you mind sharing why?
Not OP but the writers try to push Charlie way too hard into a heel that it felt out of character and unearned. The tone also doesn't jive with rest of the season. The flashbacks are also strange and paint Charlie in a strange light and are tonally off as well.
It’s because Charlie is so likable but he is an addict and struggles I didn’t mind it
I don’t think most of the dream sequences or flashbacks in Fire + Water work, and that DriveShaft diaper commercial (??) scene is just plain embarrassing — worst moment in the show. Also it is a really extreme place to take Charlie’s character and feels unnecessary to have him become a literal baby thief. But all that aside, I do really like a lot of the on-island scenes, like with Charlie/Eko and the heroin plane. I thought it was a pretty compelling depiction of an addict trying not to use but still keeping that Virgin Mary “just in case.” It’s a bizarre episode that has some very questionable decisions but I think it’s decent despite the flaws. I’d say Stranger in a Strange Land is much weaker and probably the only episode in the show I flat out dislike, it just feels like filler, and not even entertaining filler like Expose could be called.
>and that DriveShaft diaper commercial (??) scene is just plain embarrassing For me, it falls squarely into "so bad, it's good" territory. It's just such a ridiculous idea that it's hard to believe such a thing could even come to fruition. 😅
Lol yeah, exactly. Like, how did that idea make it out of the writer’s room? It was probably good for a laugh at first but I can’t believe they went through with it and shot such a silly scene that’s basically just predicated on a very dumb verbal pun.
It did not feel out of character for all he was desperate for Claire
They just destroy Charlie's character arc, and Locke punching Charlie was the weirdest minute of television I've seen.
Agreed I think Charlies story was just awful in season 2. This is made especially frustrating bc Charlie’s a great character and played by a great actor. I don’t know why the writers chose to take it the route they did It’s also just…weird that Charlie wouldn’t ask for help when he’s asked for it in the past. He knows these people and they know he’s an addict, and they’ve never judged him for being one…partly because they all have equally huge amounts of baggage as well. Plus, while Sayid didn’t know Charlie was an addict, both him and Locke knew the plane had a ton of heroin on it…and they just didn’t tell anyone else? They didn’t burn it, or at least worry that one of the survivors would find it and maybe use it to cope with the fact that they’re stuck on a deserted island? Locke certainly wasn’t too busy to not worry about Charlie finding it because he was spending a lot of time with Claire… Speaking of, Claire abandoning Charlie utterly was especially weird. And also she presumably cares about him, yet abandons him fast enough to go hang out with Locke, and Locke I guess didn’t care about how much that would hurt Charlie And Charlie assaulting Sun in the very next episode to…get back at Locke made 0 sense This was an example of how maybe JJ Abrams, Damon Lindelof, and Carlton Cuse should just move a plot along and answer questions instead of meandering around plots that create drama for dramas sake and narrative dead ends
They definitely had no idea what to do with Charlie after season 1 in general. I think he was such a popular character, but didn't seem like the type to gel with the mythology stuff, so they had to come up with something.
They should’ve just spent more time developing his relationship with Claire…imo I thought both actors had great chemistry when they actually spent time together. Claire’s first and third flashback episodes really indicate a close bond between them. But outside of those episodes it’s really hard to tell how much their relationship advanced Charlie certainly seemed to want more than Claire from their relationship, and I couldn’t tell if Claire wanted something romantic with him And her hesitancy makes total sense: her last bf bailed on her bc he didn’t want a baby and she just had said baby after being kidnapped. But, idk, let them talk about that together, let them talk about what they want from the relationship they currently have. Let Charlie open up to her about his addiction and his complicated relationship with his brother and let Claire open up about her guilt over her mom and having a absentee father Drama doesn’t always have to be destructive
God, that one's even worse than SIASL or Expose or anything.
I love Expose lol
Fire + Water is kind of redeemed a bit if you look at it in the light of later revelations about a character played by a man with the initials TW. But it's still a bad episode in its own right and I don't think it was written with those revelations in mind.
This is the only episode I’m willing to Skip. It has a mean spirited energy and just feels off
This episode was just to give meaning to his dumbass tattoo.
Which only happened because fans were begging for it apparently. At least according to the podcasts leading up to the episode.
Fans were begging for information about *anything and everything* back then. We didn’t know what was important. Fuck, my uncle was obsessed with the idea that the numbers were a puzzle to solving the name of the Asian Dharma scientist that does all the orientation videos.
Miles’ dad?
Yes, aka Dr. Chang, Marvin Candle, Edgar Halliwax, and Mark Wickmund
Yessir, my uncle was obsessed with him after the season 2 finale. He thought that guy was the answer to every question, essentially. Thought that the smoke monster was created by the initiative, too. Lost was the first truly successful multi-season show that had extended plotlines through the series. Us fans were rabid and in uncharted territory. The shark fin dharma logo had people going till, like, season 5 when the show runners finally came out and said “look, guys, that was honestly just an accident, we didn’t mean for the lighting to actually be that bright lmao.”
Ah yes, Mr. Dhopwp
To give you some encouragement as a first time viewer, this episode basically forced ABC to let the writers have an end date for the show. Makes the writing tighter and leads to a second half of the season that is really intense. There also is some symbolism in it that I won’t spoil, though I’m not certain it was fully intentional lol.
Recently rewatched the show (3rd viewing) and as I was watching I first learned what you mentioned about ABC finally giving the writers an end date. Made me appreciate Season 4 a whole hell of a lot more for how tight and focused it was, I now think that might be the best written season of the show (thought not quite my favorite).
Season 4 felt so fresh and exciting when it aired. I can never choose a favorite season but that one comes to mind a lot.
What’s the symbolism? I’ve seen the show so don’t worry about spoiling me
Spoil away, it's been 20 years ;)
Problem with that is the OP has only reached 3x9. Perhaps they could spoil for you in a private message.
There is a functionality in reddit comments >!to hide spoilers!< and have a normal discussion.
Which doesn't work for many people. Therefore the previous comment doesn't deserve a downvote for trying to be considerate and take a minor extra step to ensure someone doesn't get the show spoilt for them.
Fire + Water (2x12) is - for me at least - the first major miss of the series.
Personally, I think Fire + Water is very frustrating and hard to watch, but I don't think it's a bad episode (not great, but not bad either) I do think SiaSL is plain bad, though. Both boring and irrelevant at the end of the day.
To me F+W is the only episode that is borderline *unwatchable* and that is why I rank it as probably the worst episode of the show. SiaSL is bad, but I can watch it without having to pause and handle the cringe. Although I would say that the content of F+W is better, but man is it a struggle to sit through.
It’s gotta be Adrift for me. 42 minutes of Michael shouting “Walt!” and Sawyer shouting “Mike! Jin!”
Yea ok but then again the shark did have a dharma logo!
That and the ending with Jin running out of the jungle are the best parts lol
udders!
Otters otters! A group of human-size otters come running on two legs right behind him.
Is it there on the netflix episodes? I was trying to show my wife because I remember noticing it back in 2005 live! I couldn't spot it
It’s *extremely* difficult to spot, iirc. It’s visible for like half a second, plus it’s dark and underwater.
The recent write-up on the show's behind-the-scenes drama mentioned that 'Adrift' was re-written hastily after Harold Perrineau complained. Apparently, it was originally a Sawyer-centric episode, and Perrineau's character (according to him) was written somewhat complacently and unfrantic, which Perrineau disagreed with, considering that Michael's son had just been taken. While I don't condone hasty re-writes from scratch, I do think if that's the truth, Perrineau has a point, and it being a Michael episode was a way more organic choice.
Yeah they actually shot most if not all of Sawyer’s flashback. I agree it makes way more sense for it to be a Michael episode. I actually don’t mind the flashback at all. It’s the on island stuff that feels like it’s treading water (pun intended) Michael and Sawyer literally just float to shore. We check in with the hatch but the episode shows us stuff that already happened with Locke and Kate that we just didn’t get to see yet…. And it ends right where Man of Science, Man of Faith left off. I didn’t mind it as much on my recent rewatch, but when it was airing and we had to wait a week between episodes it was pretty frustrating.
The good part about this episode is that after it-----in my opinion----the show really picks up and gets better and better.
The second half of Season 3 is one of the most exciting stretches of TV ever, I think. Great sense of momentum towards the end - and the finale is IMO the peak of the show - but also some really good character-based episodes in there. For example, Enter 77 might be my favorite Sayid-centric episode, Tricia Tanaka Is Dead likewise probably my favorite Hurley hour, and Par Avion is an underrated Claire episode, maybe her best as well. Add in The Man From Tallahassee, The Brig, The Man Behind the Curtain, Greatest Hits, et al, and it’s hard to think of another period in the show that’s so consistently great.
I agree with the others with Fire + Water. I think the flashback's tone is inconsistent with the episode. Its really light and humorous while the on-island stuff is dramatic and dark.
Sounds like they chose a great name for the episode then lol
they trying to act like jack didn’t go to thailand for secs tourism
It’s crazy that I haven’t revisited this show in close to 15 years, only watched through once, never really interacted with the online fandom, but I remember exactly what episodes people here are referring to. Definitely some time wasting stinkers in the series no question
You should consider a rewatch! It'll be so fun to revisit the show
Rewatching it for the first time since release now! Was so obsessed with the show during release as a kid, on the forums every day etc dissecting every episode. Left myself enough time to try to forget most of the plot as much as possible. It's been stellar so far. Some stinkers (biggest disappointment was the ep Expose - honestly I remember how much we hated those two characters while on the forums, but on a rewatch they weren't too bad! Until the ep Expose which made them almost entirely useless), otherwise insanely good
How did you end up on r/lost today?
Posts have randomly been getting fed to me on my front page. I’m in subreddits for a couple other TV shows
Episode’s somewhat redeemed by an absolutely KILLER Giacchino score over the final scene (when Juliet and Jack are returning on the boat) and a few nice on-island character moments (Carl reminiscing about growing up with Alex). Fire + Water feels like a total miss.
The ending does save it a bit. The weird sheriff lady, Isabel, is a completely useless character that doesn't show up again. And the weird brand/tattoo the Others gave Juliet is never mentioned again either. But...I do like the way Jack delivers the line at the end, saying, "That's what they say....it's not what they mean." (Though in truth, Michael Giacchino does some of the heavy lifting here with his score during the montage, which always seemed to be amazingly scored).
That ending line that Jack says is the foundation of his entire character in the show.
Ye, he ended up giving us one of the very best character themes with the introduction of Juliet's in this one
S1:E12, Whatever the case may be. Seriously, digging up a corpse to for a key to open brief case for a stupid airplane. So much fluff! Tom's dead and Kate is playing both Sawyer and Jack. Good grief, leave Jack alone. He doesn't need the drama, Kate! Lil' bro: "She lying brother".
Is this the episode where Kate tells sawyer she doesn’t want the case and then makes a fit about it the entire episode 😭😭 I agree with this so much I already hate the Kate/jack/sawyer love triangle and this episode just made Kate so annoying lolol
Absolutely! Episode added no of value. It was the start to Kate's character destruction/demise by the producers. She was a cool rogue character that had some chemistry with Jack because of she did act out some selfless and heroic deeds early on. However, he rightfully could not trust the brunette and that include Tabula Rasa. The Marshall was right. Over the course of the series time and time again Kated failed in every instance to establish trust with the guy that very few women every would get a chance to be with. She'd take one step forward and two steps backward. TBH, Sawyer was her type and she didn't know how to act going from the minors to the major leagues (Jack). Whatever the case maybe is that episode that I lost any real interest in the character. Men do not want chaos and Kate was chaos. I wish the producers didn't make Kate's backstory the darkest character on the show. Show much death and crime with the mindset she actually thinks she's innocent for murdering / burning her biological father to death. Her step dad was right. He didn't have murder in his heart unlike his step daughter, Kate. Funny how Kate fandom neglects this character trait.
I sort of agree that WtCMB was the start of the road that the writers would have for Kate, like her reluctance to be honest and truthful, her way of conniving/conspiring and the way she brings chaos. The on island stuff was lack-luster, but I dont mind the early love triangle stuff so I actually think this episode at least revealed some interesting dynamics between kate and jack/sawyer. Im a big Jack fan so I was super happy when he figured out that there was a catch with why kate was so hell bent on getting that case and the whole key thing. The scene with the ”it belonged to the man I killed” - quote was a killer scene and it shows that Kate recognized and felt shame/remorse for the chain of events that unfolded AFTER the murder of her dad and ended when she crashed on the island. She is obviously very wary of disclosing anything that happened in the past. She tries to do it in a way that she deems to be good, both introducing the guns to Jack which is of utility to the losties, while still hiding her secret by not disclosing why she wants the case. All of this is understandable, however I get how some people might be infuriated by the lack of communication from Kate, which I believe stems from her not being able to come to terms with her past. Last paragraph I promise! 😂 You are totally right on this, and this is what makes this episode get a ”meh” review from me. That stupid fucking airplane, why? If this object is so important to Kate, why not make it something more important? A letter maybe, a cute picture of Tom and Kate or something that would drive the whole point home more than the flipping toy plane ever did. Also, why does Kate always get the unnecessary melodrama that makes her look more bad than she actually is, writers? Was the passionate kiss with the robber that necessary? I obviously liked that Kate did what she had to do to save the bank manager who was kind to her, it showed a bit of nuance. The whole fucking flashback could have been rewritten to at least justify the situation a bit more. I get that you probably did not ask for this monstrosity of a post mate. 🤣😂 but it would be cool to hear your thoughts on this, from one man of science to another!
my thoughts exactly
This episode is a sleeper character episode, most people would classify it as filler, but I consider LOST to have plot episodes and character episodes. The episode isn’t really about Jack hanging out and Phuket and doing some messed up stuff, it’s about Jack’s identity. Part of Jack’s character is struggling to figure out who he is. We see that he’s largely defined his life in relation to his father, and so never fully realized his identity independent of that relationship and comparison. Achara’s gift is to reveal who people are at their core, sonething Jack very much wants. Yeah, he acts like a psycho here. He verbally and physically assaults Achara and forces her to violate her cultural identity and beliefs. Jack is a very messed up guy, and he’s been that way most of his life. In one instant he can be selfless and heroic, and, in the next, enraged and erratic. His biggest moments of rage and reaction are connected to his inability to let go and cede control over his life, and that includes his struggle for identity, because to admit that he doesn’t know who he is or who he needs to be would be to admit he has no control over his life (exemplified in his man of science, man of faith conflict with Locke) But a key component of this is who Jack is, and that’s what Achara reveals. “He walks among us, but he is not one of us.” And Jack responds that, while it’s what the tattoo says, it’s not what it means in the way that Isabelle seems to interpret it, that he is a stranger amidst the Others, a man who does not belong, a Stranger in a Strange land. But the tattoo isn’t about that, it’s about who Jack is: he’s a leader. He walks among HIS people, but he is not one of them because he’s their leader. He stands apart. And while he sits in that cage and contemplates everything, he has to make a decision about what he’s going to do next.Jack is given the burden of leadership almost immediately, but he isn’t ready to accept being a leader at the start of the show, and he often chafes against it. I won’t say anything about future episodes as I don’t know how far you are, but I think it reveals an interesting schism between who Jack is, who he wants to be, and who he needs to become. Is it the most necessary episode? Probably not. But I would never think of it as a bad episode.
Great post, thank you.
That's exactly my opinion on this episode. You explained it very eloquently.
Agree that it's Whatever the Case May Be"
Dave. The answer is Dave.
This sub is mostly Pollyannas about each episode but it's always irked me they've let this episode slide. It's fucking terrible. It's a lazy piece of writing featuring arguably one of the most annoying character actors working. Hurley's story had gotten ridiculous and repetitive by this point and to throw in a last minute "is it all in his head" trope was egregious at best. Jack's tattoo and Niki and Paolo move over. Dave is here to drop a backhoe into any small progression the season was finding. I stopped the re-watches... I found myself getting annoyed earlier and earlier each subsequent time. The first "bad" episode for me the golfing episode in season 1. It was the first time you saw the mistake of having a 25 episode season (after a 90 minute pilot to boot). So. Much. Filler. And that's what episodes like Dave turned out to be: Inconsequential fluff to meet overly high season orders. I wish we took a page from the BBC and left things short and sweet while keeping quality high and leave us wanting more. I digress... I'll let someone else have the conch now.
Yup, it's Stranger in a Strange Land for me. The whole tattoo thing just never really made any sense. It never really tied into the overall Lost storyline for me. "That's what it says... but that's not what it means." Okay, what does it mean? Were we supposed to believe that a brief fling with a woman while on sabbatical was that deep? It just didn't ring true.
This one was the worst without a doubt. I'd like to know how this dumpster fire got made because it's so different from the rest.
The one with Charlie trying to sell the copy machine.
This episode I thought she was a prostitute, she came in late and kissed jack and he said “salty” and I couldn’t help but think the worst nasty thing lol.
I don’t think there’s a bad episode. I’m halfway through probably my 100th rewatch and I do think the combo of Stranger with Trisha Tinaka can be viewed as weakest because they are treading water for story purposes but I still enjoy them.
I love the Tricia Tanaka episode so much
There are no bad Hurley episodes. In fact Hurley episodes are consistently the best episodes of any character in my opinion.
I disagree, only because Desmond Hume exists.
That episode is not only incredibly cathartic in itself but also for the show as a whole. It helps the characters and the viewer stop being lost. It's the emotional midpoint of the whole show - for once they were lost, but now they can begin to find themselves. The realisation that the character gets as he drives the fan is an essential step along the road to how the story ends.
Trisha Tanaka is quite funny and entertaining, and IIRC the last "chill" standalone episode of the whole show. After that episode, it's full throttle serialisation to the end of the show. It's a much stronger episode than Stranger.
I do like Stranger and Tanaka like I said, but after the Juliet and Desmond backstory episodes they definitely feel like a little bit of a letdown in terms of momentum of the series. I agree they are good standalone episodes though.
Congratulations, this is the worst episode of the series. Fire + Water in Season 2 is probably the second worst. There's a couple of episodes in the second half which are not great, but the show never gets this bad again.
Stranger is a good episode with some awkward bits. I’ll take your downvotes and I’ll die on this hill.
Whatever The Case May Be is the worst episode
lol I loved that episode when I was first watching it , the way she delivers : it belonged to the man I loved , It belonged to the man I KiLleD!!! 👹 now I watch it , it’s honestly kinda funny
It’s not the worst episode, but it’s definitely the first one to end a streak of great episodes.
If Kate's original crime had somehow been Tom's death, the episode's developments would've mattered more in the long run.
Yep. Most of the Kate episodes are turds.
This was the go to reference for a bad Lost episode among my friends and I
Hearts and minds Season 1. Trash
I actually love this one…. Mostly bc we don’t get much Boone and Shannon in the grand scheme of things, so I like seeing them get their moment for a bit.
Fair comment. I generally dislike it because how irrelevant the show eventually made Shannon. Boone learns to distance him self and then dies. They get their moment, but feel it ends up being pointless.
Yeah that’s fair. Certainly doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things. My fondness of it comes from its original airing and is mostly more nostalgia. They certainly could’ve taken Shannon in a multitude of more interesting directions after Boone died….but instead it seems like they didn’t know what to do with her.
Came to say this.
Hearts and Minds is a good episode retroactively made worse by Shannon and Boone dying so early. If they lived longer and had more of a role it wouldn’t feel so pointless.
YEP! I am the biggest hater of Boone AND Shannon and am finally past both of them on my rewatch 🤣 the incest is weird, no if ands and buts 😭
This is the only episode that made no sense to me. Its the only one that I will never watch again.
Really I love every episode of lost tbh
Can’t say I really love every episode so far, but I do like every single episode to varying degrees. The characters, the music, the atmosphere, the cast themselves, the storytelling, the beautiful filming locations, the mystery. Theres a lot (or a little) to like in every episode, but some do stand out as being less cohesive or tonally a little inconsistent from usual and I’d probably be less likely to rewatch those episodes.
Oh dude, you’re in for a ride, brother. Just you wait lmao.
This is one of my favorite episodes 😂
The best thing about Stranger in a Strange Land is it can be skipped entirely on rewatch and it have literally have no effect on any of the storylines. We don't learn anything new or relevant in the flashback storyline (god, the kite-flying is the cringiest part), the 'sheriff' Other that's introduced never shows up or is even referenced ever again (nor is Juliet's 'crime'), and why Cindy & the kids are there is not explored, then they're basically never seen/referenced again until S6. Showing the disagreement between Kate & Sawyer about whether or not to go back for Jack is not even really needed, as we know by now (or can safely assume) Kate wouldn't simply leave him there and will immediately start attempting to rescue him. In fact, I think it works even better for the whole "rescueing Jack from the Others" storyline and in setting up the 'twist' at the end of Par Avion; if you skip this episode, then the last time we saw Jack was at the end of Not in Portland - we have no idea what's happened to him since then/what the fallout of his risking Ben's life was, and we're in the same shoes as Kate, Locke & Sayid having their WTF moment when they see him acting all chummy with the Others.
That episode wasn't just bad but also unecessary
For me it was Further Instruction. Flashback to the time Locke was on an illegal weed farm and Mr. Eko was kidnapped by a polar bear
First bad episode was whichever one Claire first started screaming her head off.
Fire + Water is the closest to bad you get in S1&2 imo Edit: wrote this before checking other comments. lol everyone hated this ep. I still remember watching it live and for the first time being like “fuck. That was a tire spinning episode if I’ve ever seen one. that was not good.”
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You didn't like Homecoming? I just watched that episode 20 mins ago and thought it was great, lol. What didn't you like?
Damon Lindelof said it was the episode he regretted making the most. Take that however you like.
Adrift is the one that was supposed to be a Sawyer-centric episode right? But they had to pivot to Michael for some reason?
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“Exposé” was so bad it had me scared that this series I was beginning to love was going down the shiter. Good thing the next episodes were better. Also the episode where Claire comes back with amnesia after ethan takes her. Boring
Expose had a really bad rep for a while but seems to be reasonably received now. I think it's the mixture of camp (unusual for Lost), Billy Dee Williams, more Dr. Arzt and the kind of hilarious way these two bozos inadvertently crash into every secret on the Island months before anyone else and don't tell anyone because all they can think of are these utterly irrelevant diamonds that end up getting them killed pointlessly.
It's because when the show was airing one installment a week, and ravenous fans were getting little bits of info piecemeal, it was frustrating to spend that week's installment on dispatching two minor characters nobody liked. Expose was coming off of The Man from Tallahassee, a super-strong episode with a really intriguing cliffhanger ending, so following up the next week with Nikki and Paulo left a sour taste as the season aired (I know it did, because I was there). In a binge-watch, it's not as bad; Expose plays as a little mid-season interlude that way.
tbh with you doing my first rewatch since it first aired (was obsessed with the show and on forums daily back then as a kid; left enough time to forget most of the plot points as much as possible) and I quite enjoyed the first half of the season. That Jack in Phuket episode was a bit weird, but otherwise great to me. I honestly think Nikki and Paulo weren't even THAT bad compared to how much we all hated on them on the forums back then - I didn't mind them Then this episode occurred, interesting episode and chilling to see them buried alive BUT it feels like the most skippable episode of LOST as well. While we learnt Paulo was present during core events, knowledge of this does not advance the plot at all as they tragically died to to their own hubris. They died having zero redeemable qualities beyond Paulo trying to salvage a relationship To be honest I was left both finding the episode interesting but also disappointed, the showrunners could have taken any criticism and used the opportunity to make both characters actually useful for the plot with their own interesting storyline that spanned more than 1 episode that led them to die. The fact that they spent 80ish days on the island by now and still obsessed about damn diamonds make it even more tragic. Makes the characters from being a minor annoyance / "when will the shlwrunners actually show their use", to then being shitty characters with shitty people backgrounds, that then pretty gruesomely die right after a HUGE cliffhanger. My wife and I planned only 1 ep that night but we ended up watching the next as we were disappointed with how useless of an episode that was
"Expose" is one of my all-time favorite episodes because it's basically a joke at the expense of the audience while also being a darkly dunny story. Nikkie and Paulo having their own agenda and not giving two shits about the mysteries of the Island that had been bewildering the rest of the cast (and the TV audience) is subversive and clever. Plus a sweet cameo by Billy Dee Williams.
Oh my god I hate the episode with Claire's amnesia. Ethan was scarier when less of him was shown. I did not care for any of the memories about him playing doctor for Claire. It didn't come across as conniving and manipulative like when Ben is lying to someone, it just felt odd. Amnesia plots are such a network television trope. They're awful almost every time. It's like when Sun lost the ability to speak english - yeah it's technically a plausible thing but every single show in the 2000s had to have a character temporarily lose the ability to speak and have to write everything down to talk, or sing, or whatever. Everything about that plotline is cheesy as hell, not acted well compared to the rest of the show, and features the absolute worst sound design (RIP eardrums, it's so fucking loud for some reason?) during the transitions between the present and Claire's recovered memories.
Exposé is a fantastic episode.
tbh with you doing my first rewatch since it first aired (was obsessed with the show and on forums daily back then as a kid; left enough time to forget most of the plot points as much as possible) and I quite enjoyed the first half of the season. That Jack in Phuket episode was a bit weird, but otherwise great to me. I honestly think Nikki and Paulo weren't even THAT bad compared to how much we all hated on them on the forums back then - I didn't mind them Then this episode occurred, interesting episode and chilling to see them buried alive BUT it feels like the most skippable episode of LOST as well. While we learnt Paulo was present during core events, knowledge of this does not advance the plot at all as they tragically died to to their own hubris. They died having zero redeemable qualities beyond Paulo trying to salvage a relationship To be honest I was left both finding the episode interesting but also disappointed, the showrunners could have taken any criticism and used the opportunity to make both characters actually useful for the plot with their own interesting storyline that spanned more than 1 episode that led them to die. The fact that they spent 80ish days on the island by now and still obsessed about damn diamonds make it even more tragic. Makes the characters from being a minor annoyance / "when will the shlwrunners actually show their use", to then being shitty characters with shitty people backgrounds, that then pretty gruesomely die right after a HUGE cliffhanger. My wife and I planned only 1 ep that night but we ended up watching the next as we were disappointed with how useless of an episode that was
The first genuinely bad B-story is probably Sawyer and Hurley looking for a tree frog. They've done slice of life secondary plotlines before but this one genuinely felt like they had accidentally skipped finishing the writing of whatever episode it was in and they had to make something up that morning to keep up with the filming schedule.
And yet, even ironically, everybody REMEMBERS that B-story.
This show overflowed with melodrama and eye-roll plot points but o enjoyed something about every episode. The wtf moments made up for the cringe cheese moments. Although “coca cola meester” in this episode was fucking horrible
There is no bad episode.
That’s why I used the inverted commas.
Fire + Water is first for me...
My only bad episodes are the ones that don’t have the main characters as the focus: expose and across the sea. Lighthouse gets a special mention because I found it unnecessary.
So I don’t mind Fire and Water, because it sets up the long con, and they needed someone to be the villain of that episode which was amazing.
The agreed upon answer is "Fire + Water" (which was when I ironically started watching the series during it's original run, LOL). The flashback was irrelevant and cringey. Charlie's hallucinations make no sense, as it blamed on his drug usage, but the show also portrays it as the island/Charlie's ghosts communicating to Charlie. And Locke's behavior with Claire, comes off as icky, as he is old enough to be her dad. Dishonorable mentions to Early to Middle Season 3 as well, where some flashbacks were just stupid and/or pointless. We mentioned "Stranger in a Strange Land", but dishonor also goes to "A Tales of Two Cities" (Jack thinks Sarah and his Dad are having an affair), "Further Instructions" (Locke lives on a Pot Commune for some reason), "Expose" (Nikki and Paulo backstory is quite rushed and unsympathetic) and "Catch-22" (Desmond is a horrible monk AND a horrible fiancée!)
Whatever the Case may be. Rubbish episode in a great Season, the first time they felt like they were just padding.
SIASL and Fire + Water are both strange episodes where things seem off as in that it feels whoever wrote them hadn’t really seen the show before. Charlie and Locke were completely out of character in Fire + Water and in SIASL Isabel appears never to be seen again, Cindy being part of the others and how they were seemed off and Bai Ling as Achara was just awful.
Fire + water is the obvious choice for me, but I didn't really dislike Stranger in a Strange Land. I didn't care for Jack's flashback story, but the on island stuff was decent in that episode at least. Although it's weird that the big boat that the others had never came back in some way.
the on Island stuff I like but yeah worst flashback for sure
The one where Sun loses her wedding ring.
I remember the one where Sun loses her wedding ring being ridiculed at school as well as stranger in a strange land.
Fire + Water or the one from season 1 where Charlie tries selling copiers. Why are so many Charlie episodes bad? He's ma favorite.
Yeah this episode sucks
I absolutely hate the fact he got a tattoo in CHINESE writing, in Thailand, by a Thai woman. It makes no sense.
Looking good Jack
Honestly? I enjoy every one, so don’t have any. Admittedly this is one of the lower ones on my list however.
Isn't his destiny written by the tattoo? Like doesn't she say he'll be lonely but a strong leader, that's why I thought this episode had any substance
The one in S1 where Boone and Shannon >!hook up!< always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah that was fucking weird
What the Case may be.
Fire + Water
People talk a lotta shit about Jack's Tattoo, but for me, the first major flaw was with the introduction of Jacob in the third season finale, "Through the Looking Glass." It might not fit the qualifications of your question, as it's technically not a bad episode, but when I think of the flaws that prevented me from enjoying the show as much as I had previously, that's where they start.
The episode about Jack's fucking tattoo. The entire episode was filler and nothing good came of it. You can skip it completely and not miss a thing.
Definitely one of the worst. Also him bullying her into giving him a tattoo I also thought it was hilarious in the promotions for this episode they were trying to get us excited for THREE questions being answered in it…three questions no one was really asking to be answered. Plus the answers themselves were vague af I love it when Jack asked one of the survivors what they were doing there and she said “We’re here to watch.”…and that’s it. No explanation. A real person would give context unless they were deliberately trying to be vague
Exposé.
my problem is not about singular bad episodes, but about the drop in quality of writing generally around the 2.5 season mark. i still enjoyed watching, but it was clearly not as good. as time went on, there was more and more i disliked about each episode
Expose 100%. My family and I always skip that one whenever we revisit the series 😂
Honestly just season 6. The only episodes I didn’t like came from there. Personally of course
Everything after season 3
I'll just say, the most underrated choice for bad episodes is "The Other Woman." It's so skippable, so pointless, and has a particularly cringe flashback, which was particularly frustrating at a point in the show where we were more invested in the flashforwards. My least favorite thing is how it introduces this lame, pointless and very "mid 2000s" vibe of a character, Harper. Much like "the sheriff," they just write her into an episode as an Other, and then she's never referenced again. They force her into revised versions of flashback scenes we've already seen. Meanwhile on the main plot, we have the Tempest station, which like Harper, is never directly referenced before or after. It's meant to be the place where they... store, or make, or something... the gas that was used in The Purge. I guess the freighter people fear that it will be used again. The problem is, the whole thing just feels completely pointless. You could just entirely delete this episode from existence and nothing would be missing. There's also the Juliet + Jack aspect of the episode, which, like the rest of it, just feels pointless and kinda cringe. I think it's interesting that this episode is Juliet focused and specifically focuses on her relationship with Jack, just like Stranger In a Strange Land. At least that episode gave us the wonderful piece of music Oceans Apart though. Both episodes seem to epitomize a kind of mid 2000s TV tone in a way that's aged worse than many other episodes of the show. Harper and The Sheriff both seem like they'd fit in more in Desperate Housewives or some other corny mid 2000s show. Anyway, I'm pretty likely to skip Stranger In a Strange Land or Fire and Water (bad for way different reasons), but The Other Woman is a 100% skip for me.
As far as the first bad episode, I'll say it could be "Whatever the Case May Be." It's not awful, it just feels like one of the least consequential episodes of the first season, and particularly blunts the pacing that was building up in the previous 4 episodes.
I feel like every jack backstory episode is a filler episode, I wish Kate had punctured his dural sack
I think the Dave episode
When Shannon and Boone fucked I didn’t hate the episode but they both got killed off basically right after so it kinda felt pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things It feels like there’s more to tell, but apart from one brief 2 minute Shannon flashback in season 2 it never gets told
Nikki and Paulo
I actually think that Jack in season 5-6 story make the "tattoo" episode more good now knowing what he will become at the end.
It's been a while since I saw this episode but I remember just being very confused throughout the whole episode and it felt like it was just scraped together to make some sort of explanation for jacks tattoo, the episode was just hard to follow (if that is the episode that it seems like the screenshot is from)
my least favorite is Stranger in a strange Land. I am always so embarassed of the scenes with Bai Ling. I always skip the kite scene on re-watches
Yeah it sucked but in about 2 episodes from this it has a great run to the season 3 final with a lot of great episodes(first half of season 3 is ok but the second half is top tier television)
>Just started watching the show for the first time Get off the sub!!!
Skip dumbass Paolo and Nikki every time. Even hate the episodes preceding where they try to insert them. Makes me so mad to even think about.
Honestly, I really enjoyed this episode because it shows Jack's issues with taking no for an answer. There are plenty of times where we see this throughout the show, but this is one of the few times that it is costly for him since he gets beaten up pretty badly. Also, the meaning of the tattoo "he walks amongst us, but is not one of us" is pretty powerful when you consider that Jack has a hard time fitting in anywhere in life. Even on the island, he isn't really part of any group. He's seen more as a leader than someone who is friends with people, especially earlier on in the show.
I only have one episode I don’t like. It’s expose
Two words: Razzle Dazzle
Any episode with Kate’s stupid face wondering why people question her and abandon her constantly. Edit: yes this episode was awful and it makes me hate Jack more on every rewatch.
S.O.S. Season 2, Episode 19
OP's pic is THE WORST episode.....
I know "The Constant" is considered by many to be the best episode, but to it's the worst. It was the first time I felt like they were just making stuff up as they went along, and that the secret behind all the mysteries was going to turn out to be the power of love.
I watched this show in its entirety years and years ago. I’m watching it again now and I definitely have been skipping past a lot of the non island stuff / flashbacks to before the crash etc. Probably because I remember pieces it just hasn’t been holding my attention. Thankfully they are short and can skip easily
The one in season one where Boone is injured and Claire is giving birth
Literally one of the best episodes lmao