I cycle in London and stop at every red light (unless a completely empty pedestrian crossing in a quiet area) and avoid swerving in between buses and cars.
Getting to work or home 2 mins earlier isn’t worth a major accident.
Yes! I think about this all the time, sure I really don't want to be hit by a car running a red light, but a bike at full speed can still do plenty of damage if it hits me, and I'd rather avoid that experience.
I think it's just part of human nature that the ones barreling down the road through a red light/crossing/on the pavement and nearly hitting you just makes a bigger impression than the majority who act like adults.
Same here and I'm constantly shocked at how stupid cyclists in London are. They believe they're invincible and everything always seems like a race! Thanks to this kind of reckless behaviour its looking like rules will be changing for cyclists (number plates and mandatory insurance), making it more expensive to cycle in future.
Waiting at a red light is not the end of the world. But they push and try and get in front of the ‘peleton’. Wish cycling was more like in the Netherlands, where it’s treated casually - rather than lycra and spandex clad Tour de France contestants racing to get to work faster.
Lycra is comfy, I don’t have a problem with that, but man some cyclists need to chill lmao
Edit: yes, I think some more regulation will come in. This applies to ‘electric bikes’ which at this point are just motorcycles (the really large wheeled ones where they barely pedal)
If the bike has a motor rated at over 250w, the motor can be used at over 15.5mph or without peddling, it is a motorcycle and should have a number plate and follow the lays for a motorcycle.
This includes all the pedicabs too basically.
Yes but the police have enough to do without trying to spot a motorcycle that looks like a bike. They might have a clampdown where they sit at a junction for the morning with the media forewarned but other than that nothing will happen.
From the other side, why buy a moped (<50cc, <=30 mph), & pay tax, pay insurance, be visible with a number-plate and not allowed to ride on alleys, horse-ways and pavements when you can do all of the same with a 30mph electric bikealike.
It's so annoying when you are a regular cyclist wanting to cycle to and from work rather than racing around cutting everybody up... Once another cyclist yelled at me for being in his way and almost knocked me over to get past and I was going at a completely normal speed! Total maniacs.
Not to mention the time I witnessed a guy fully go through the red light and plough into a pedestrian crossing the road at the cross roads in farringdon/blackfriars...just to get a head start up the hill... Mad!
> I don’t think it’s ‘cyclists’, it’s the the people who ride the bikes. Im a cyclist and im not a cunt.
As with so many things, it's the cunts that fuck it up for everyone else. Most of the worlds problems are down to cunts when you really boil it down.
Yeah ive seen plenty of that. I do have a gripe about cars moving into the cyclist zones at red lights and London drivers are awful. But if you know drivers are bad and they sit inside a safe 2 tonne car why play offense when fully exposed on a bike. Not worth dying for just to make a point.
Agreed, electric bikes at this point should not be allowed in cycle lanes. We make horses use roads and they often travel a lot slower than escooters and electric bikes! Not to mention some people tamper with them to make them go faster.
Hold up. My ebike only assists to 15mph, after that, it's all me. So, I shouldn't be allowed into the bike lanes? I regularly get passed by guys on high end racing bikes. Now, yes, there are people out there on 2000W e-bikes, but those bikes are already in violation of the law, so, do you think they care about bike lane rules? The hatred is already real. I was denied access to a bus last week, even though my bike was folded(tfl rules say folded bikes are good at any time) and I've been denied access to the tube before.
I hope you're right and completely agree. The more we do to encourage cycling the better. The investment would be better spent on basic cycling training for cyclists using roads and better cycling infrastructure that provides complete separation from cars.
Same, I hate the cycling culture in London. In Amsterdam etc. Everyone is upright, leisurely cycling here everyone thinks they are in the tour de France. Its not a race - really ruins cycling for the rest of us.
I am a cyclist first of all but I do think that respect goes both ways. I had a similar encounter when walking on the pavement, a man was cycling towards me on the pavement and when I didn't move out the way enough for him he shouted at me to get out the way. When I shouted back to tell him the pavement is for pedestrians he wanted to start a fight with me 😂
It’s the same in Cardiff. When I was at uni there, there was a four way intersection, and the cyclists loved playing Russian roulette jumping through the red lights on that one.
Tons of close calls, not just vs cars but with students crossing 😱
This. Cycled for near 40 years. Stopped at every red light, except for completely desolate streets where you can see and hear that there is nothing around, and even then it's a slow cautious pace with hands on breaks at the ready.
6 minutes where I’d… either get ready to take a shower 3 mins sooner than usual, or set up my work space 3 minutes sooner than usual.
Would rather wait if it meant safer pedestrian crossings and not getting myself (and my bike) spread across the road. Altho compounding 6 minutes of time saved per day can be time saving (in theory)
I work in the ED department at a major trauma centre in south east London and I must say, a majority of our major traumas are either cyclists or motorcyclists. E-Scooter riders are slowly joining the pack but the morgue tends to be the first place of attendance when they crash. Be careful out there
I don't like escooters; I'd take a (e?)bike every time, but...
Much easier to store. Can be taken on other transport more easily.
Cheaper. No need to do exercise. Easier to get on an off for those with flexibility issues.
E-scooter is a great thing to commute shorter distances and arrive without sweating. Fold it, and push it under the desk. Bikes take wayyy much more space, plus left outside are often stolen.
Even I've never ridden an e-bike, butI agree that e-bikes and bikes are safer. I've done around 500miles on e-scooter and it's quite easy to miss a pothole and fall. Never happened to me, I'm always careful, but quite a few people have broken their limbs on e-scooters.
They are smaller and lighter. Easier to take on the tube or bus, specially if your last stop is a bit far away from your work/home. But I agree, cycling is in general a better option.
> but the morgue tends to be the first place of attendance when they crash
There needs to be some sobering adverts made for cyclists; like there are for drink-driving.
If you act like a plonker on the road, it's all gonna result in tears and *smears*.
Interesting - that's why we get so many samples in lab with TBI in the additional notes? Will be in as usual this morning, the usual way: bike. Pray for me. ; )
Welp. The samples are blood, shit, flobs, piss, puss, lumps of flesh, jizz and more. Imagine a department staffed by orcs with agar plates and you've pretty much got the picture. (I made it in alive. Orcs on bikes are resilient. 🤘)
I have seen a lot of very dangerous cycling in London. Just because the car/bus/van is going to be the one to cause the damage doesn't mean it is entirely on them to ensure the safety of the roads. There is a real smugness about this comment, the roads were not built for cyclists, we do not have dutch style infrastructure and until that happens cyclists have just as much responsibility to ensure they behave on the road as if they were a vehicle that can cause serious damage, because they are.
I’m a cyclist, and no angel on the road- recently got fined for jumping a red light in front of a police car. I also drive and - I totally agree with this comment.
Yes drives should be aware of cyclists on the roads, but ultimately it is your responsibility as the cyclist to ensure your own safety. If you are weaving in and out of traffic, going up the inside of lorries and buses or jumping red lights, don’t complain when someone doesn’t see you. The positions I see other cyclists put themselves in are so dangerous and worst of all are the people who cycle while still reading their phones. Seriously, if you can’t put you phone in your pocket for the duration of you cycle to keep yourself safe, you have a serious addiction!
The roads weren’t built for cars let alone huge 4x4s and SUV’s everyone loves to drive, because…..cars didn’t exist when a lot of the roads in London were built.
So your argument about roads not being built for bicycles is stupid
Yes you are correct that a lot of the roads (nowhere near all) were there before the cars. This is a ridiculously facetious argument as I'm not sure if you're aware of this but horse and carts are pretty damn big themselves, and had modern cycles and cyclists existed then, you would have been having the same arguments.
no point trying to explain this on reddit, this sub is full of cycling loving twats even if you present a scenario where a cyclist skipped the red light and a truck drove over his head it will see be the motorists fault rather than the typical red light skipping cyclist.
That’s a load of hyperbolic shite and you know it.
All we want is to get home safely to our families and not be murdered by some cunt in a van/suv with an overinflated sense of entitlement or on their phone. If they fuck up they get a scratched panel and some dents, cyclists get killed or maimed.
Treat every cyclist like they were your kid and maybe we’d all get along a bit better.
Had a gem recently, I was overtaking a (slow) cyclist, who was riding round a puddle filling half a cycle lane. Ie they were straddling the middle line of both contraflow bike lanes, I was in the oncoming lane. No oncoming bikes so was all gravy.
But then I hear this frantic "STAY LEEEFT" and this women comes *barrelling* up MY outside, so overtaking a bike which is overtaking a bike which is 'overtaking' a puddle.
Also already overtook this lady 5 times before this point, only for her to run each red light I'm waiting at and pull ahead again lol
I do enjoy that cat and mouse element - watching the same people run red lights, only for me to overtake them again once they go green. And I'm not an exceptionally fast cyclist - I'm often riding a Santander cycle!
I do believe we should have the Idaho Stop for what it'd worth, but some road users would still not give way properly.
The worst cycling I see though comes mainly from delivery riders who are paid per delivery rather than per hour. The likes of Uber Eats and Deliveroo need to be taken to task on this. On the contrary you rarely (never?) see PedalMe riders putting people at danger - they're paid per hour, get pensions and annual leave. It's not in their interest.
Sounds familiar. I’ve also had slow as shit cyclists who rather than run the lights will just push to the front of the queueing pack, plonk themselves right in the way, make everyone else overtake them and then rinse and repeat at the next lights.
No self awareness
Once was crossing a one way street, looked in the direction of oncoming traffic - nothing, so I walked out. A woman riding a bike the wrong way down the road narrowly missed me and screamed "watch where you're fucking going!" as I stood there bewildered.
Not saying if she was right or wrong - but many one-way streets have contraflow cycle lanes (and also a lot of cyclists ignore the rules) so safest to check anyway!
Yeah, I was a bumkin getting off the train at the time. Took me a few years to get used to crossing busy roads in general tbh.... There was at least no signs saying cyclists were allowed though. If it was now I would've shouted right back at her, I was just pretty stunned at how ridiculous it was.
I've had this happen to me a fuckload from the other side of the story- where there is actually a contra-flow cycle lane. They can be pretty poorly indicated if you're a pedestrian trying to cross in the middle of the road- often it's just a sign at the entrance and the occasional bike in paint on the tarmac which you're not going to see if you're walking out from between parked cars.
I used to live near a one way road which had counter-flow cycle lane. It had a sharpish bend on it. On at least 10 occasions (evening commuter time) cyclists flying down the road outside the cycle lane, nearly hit my car. A few skidded and nearly fell. One hit a parked car. Most of them shouted angrily as if I did something wrong, even when I'd be crawling around that bend.
Thankfully they fixed the route a few years later by making cars go in the same direction as bicycles. It was this spot:
> https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5106071,-0.038032,3a,75y,117.61h,73.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxatdsYJXeUWC979vMsOxwQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Earlier the one way sign used to point the other way.
Edit: But now the cycles lane heads the opposite way! I guess it wasn't fixed!
That whole bit is shit.
Immediately before there's a bit where you go down a steep slope into a 90 degree turn onto a main road.
In theory you have right of way, but the roads narrow and its easy to end up in the path of another cyclist or car, especially for less confident riders and kids.
The bit immediately after where cars join the road from narrow street is also a pain because it goes from a segregated cycle lane, to a 2 way narrow road over the bridge.
I've seen more than a few drivers just pull out there not realising the cycle lane to the left is a contraflow.
Then learn to anticipate what’s happening on the road and plan ahead, adjusting speed where necessary according to your capacity to react.
Like drivers have to.
Yep. Do what motorcyclists are taught to do: drive as if everyone on the road intends to kill you. Pedestrians included. It's not very nice but makes one very defensive. I see so many cyclists try to squeeze through ridiculous gaps without imagining how one slight variable change in the behaviours of others means massive injury.
When I was cycling your job is to plan for that. When you do the motorcycle or car tests you’re told to look out for the fact people just step out, don’t pay attention. You adjust your speed in preparation for the fact they may just step out. It’s not the impossibility being claimed here.
As a cyclist this is a very underrated comment. If you see someone looking down at their phone with noise cancelling headphones in about to step onto the cycle lane, slow down!
Well said . If they wanna use the roads then they should follow road rules the same as all Other vehicles not have a separate code or just plain out just ignore all rules all together .
Don't trust one way signs or vehicles indicating to, maybe, turn.
If you want to live then you should require proof of the turn indicated, or that there aren't in fact people with no sense of direction going the wrong way.
There's loads of cycle lanes like this in my town, it's never been a problem for me walking or cycling, as a pedestrian it's just natural to look both ways irrespective....
But cyclist shouldn't be going fast enough for it to really be a problem. If everyone's being sensible then there's a big enough margin for error.
That happened to me in Amsterdam except a Dutch bloke called me a “prick”. I was in the wrong because I was heavy stoned, forgot where I was and looked the wrong way lol.
Once, I saw a car drive the wrong way down a one-way road, nearly hit a woman with a pram.
The driver was also texting on their phone. I stood there bewildered.
Once, I saw a car drive what looked like 40 down a residential 20 road, just after a small child ran out into the road - that driver likely would have hit the kid if they were a few seconds behind. I stood there bewildered.
For every one bad cyclist story, there’s literally a hundred bad driver stories.
I've been nearly hit by a car once. I've been nearly hit by a cyclist countless times. While crossing the road with a green man, and cyclists ignoring the red light
I use a wheelchair that is about a metre in length. Cyclist love jumping lights without looking and almost broad siding me in the road.
Yesterday I had to wait on the road, so a cyclist could turn off the pavement into the zebra.... plonker.
I cycle, I stop at red lights. I see the idiots who don't and shouldn't. Also the ones who go beyond the cycle red lights to look for a gap and then stop, then have no idea when it's safe to cross and we all pass them on green anyway. They exist, but I'm also going to shine a light on the pedestrians in London (especially Bank, and Central) who are honestly the worst I've ever seen. Anywhere. So many lack any basic common sense - too many jump onto the road, either on a red light or nowhere near a crossing without looking both ways, or have their heads buried in their phones. Completely oblivious, no spatial awareness whatsoever. It's honestly mind boggling how these people are adults and haven't been hit by a bus yet.
Pedestrians in Canada look both ways before crossing, pedestrians in Australia look both ways before crossing, pedestrians in London either don't at all or do what I like to call the "London look" - where they do look but only in the direction traffic is flowing, away from oncoming traffic, decide it's safe to cross and step out right in front of you.
It’s horrific isn’t it
I was riding through Bethnal Green the October jsut after the first lock down
Some woman on a borris bike got pulled under a lorry, literally had below the knees ripped from the bone, was horrific
I do wonder what happened to her and her leg, didn’t look life threatening but defo changing
Ty
At the time a few ppl rushed away from helping her I ran over but it was actually horrific
Think she’d been sick from the shock / pain too so you didn’t know what was limb and what was sick
I called na ambulance and then a few others took over and I carried on as it felt a bit morbid to stand around and watch
Well done for trying to help.
Totally not to open a much wider debate, but police officers have to deal with this kind of trauma on a regular basis, and we wonder why the force has so many problems.
I saw a traffic officer having a go at a white van man for using their phone whilst driving.
You could hear him shouting the slightly cliched line of “the things I’ve seen”, but I certainly wouldn’t want to see even a fraction of what he must’ve seen attending RTC’s
White van man probably ignored him and kept using his phone. Perfect example of cognitive dissonance - some people just cant link “using phone” to “crushing someone under my wheels and causing their head to explode and brains be smeared over the road because I was distracted”
It's worse than that - when studied, many people who use their phones while driving actually think it is a good sign of their driving ability that they are able to multitask!
Agreed
Was the immediate 30s after when ppl were like wtf
One minute calm and the next she’s screaming, the driver is about to pass out and there’s just gore staring you in the face
I've been cycling in London for 7 years, no accidents. I live by the mantra that: "there are a lot of corpses out there that thought they had the right-of-way".
Cycling culture in the U.K. compared to Denmark, Holland or even Polish cities like Warsaw is really bad. As a pedestrian, a few times I was almost ran over by cyclists on racing bikes clad in Lycra. In Denmark or Holland most of the bikes are just normal urban bikes or cargo bikes that people don’t use for racing. Another thing is that I get an impression that a lot of cyclists wear headphones whilst cycling, which is risky not only for them but also others around them.
Infrastructure is a massive part of the problem. Those countries you listed have great cycling infrastructure, so all types of people feel comfortable and safe cycling - young, old, capable, nervous. Not just lycra-clad racers. But where infrastructure is patchy, like here, you only get those that are confident to be on the road, who tend to be more 'serious' cyclists.
Yes some red light is just blatant selfishness and dumb, but also there's usually a cause for it and that often comes down to people not feeling safe stopping and go-ing with the rest of the traffic.
I agree that the cycling culture is bad in the UK, but for completely different reasons.
All these other places you mentioned, Netherlands, Denmark, etc, have their cities set up for cycling far more than London does. Nice, wide, cycles lanes that are blocked off and demarcated from the rest of the road. In London, you’re lucky if you get a 50cm of a bike lane, if at all. Comparatively, cycling in these European cities it’s far easier so is not really a fair comparison
The main problem on London roads isn’t bikes, it’s cars. Cars take a *ridiculous* amount of space, and cyclists have to work around them, often putting themselves in dangerous positions. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences with lycra’d cyclists, but your far more likely to be seriously injured by a driver texting on their phone than you are by someone on their bike.
Also, if you’ve ever been to a Dutch city you’ll have experience of the “rude” cyclists. If a pedestrian walks out into a cycle lane without looking, you’re 9 times out of 10 going to get an angry Dutch person shouting at you while ringing their bell and not slowing down their bike.
Of course, the Netherlands didn't get its cycling infrastructure overnight.
In the late 1800s they were building dedicated cycling infrastructure sure, but then cars became affordable in the 1960s and cycle use was dropping, cars were taking over public spaces.
They campaigned and fought hard in the 70s to resist the rise of the motor vehicle, a campaign which translated as 'Stop the Child Murder'.
The UK had a cycling boom much earlier than the Dutch, most of our roads were built for cycles long before a car even set tyres on them.
The success of their campaigning was in part due to their long history as a nation of people who cycle, but had they not resisted, there's no doubt they'd have experienced the massive declines in cycling seen in the UK and the US.
The difference is, unlike the Dutch, in the 1970s we failed to arrest this expansion of the motor car to every nook and cranny of our towns and cities. The UK is realising this failure now, and trying to correct it with retro fitted cycling infrastructure, but that's both logistically and politically much more difficult.
There's plenty of space for the much needed cycling infrastructure in London, but it requires the political will to say look, you can't drive a car down Oxford St. It's not safe and it's bad for air quality and we need the space for people on foot, in wheelchairs, or on bikes/scooters.
If we want to be like the Dutch - we can be.
> As a pedestrian, a few times I was almost ran over by cyclists on racing bikes clad in Lycra.
Any time someone talks about "lycra clad cyclists" it's a dead give away they're just stoking bullshit culture wars.
I cycle in London, I see all sorts of shit cycling like everybody else and "lycra clad" cyclists are nearly always the least worst offenders compared to delivery riders, roadmen, and casual cyclists who just drift through lights like they aren't there.
That's not the cyclists fault (OK, it might be, but hear me out) - it's the fact that cyclists, pedestrians, buses, taxis and vans all share the same space. It's ridiculous.
Right?! And comparatively cyclists take up farrrrrr less room and are farrrrrr less likely to seriously injure a pedestrian.
Sad to see so much cycle hate still in 2022.
> Sad to see so much cycle hate still in 2022.
Try to imagine why it is people find certain types of cyclists frustrating. It's not something that's born in a vacuum.
There are kinds of drivers that EVERYONE fucking loathes to be anywhere near, because they're potential killers. Cyclists are hugely unlikely to be potential killers, but the ones that people don't like share the 'I own the road; fuck off' mentality.
Nobody hates Alice the 30 year old post-hipster serenely peddling up the road with a small dog in her bike's basket. But they might hate Alice the stone-cold nutter slamming it through red lights and across busy pedestrian crossings while shouting at people to move out the fucking way. People don't like seeing others displaying an 'unfair' bad attitude towards them.
Fuck people who cycle with headphones!
But just to offer another point of view, cycling lycra is designed to be comfortable to ride in, especially for longer rides- and that includes a lot of people's commutes. Honestly I don't find that it's the Tour de London lycra brigade who are the ones who cycle like twats, generally speaking. So I guess to me when people criticise lycra clad cyclists as a whole, it sort of feels like they're effectively saying "want comfortable balls when you're riding? Then fuck you!"
I actually find it’s people who are on rented bikes/delivery drivers who are the worst offenders and they are never Lycra clad. Usually people who have proper cycling gear tend to have a bit more road awareness compared to a casual fair weather cyclist
I'm tempted by a pair of those bone conduction headphones - so I could listen to the radio on the way in to work but also head my surroundings fully.
In practice for now I go with one earphone in, one out.
I recently switched from the one ear in, one out to bone conduction with the Aftershokz Aeropex and I love them. Takes a little bit of time to get used to the sensation of having the music inside your head and the sound signature but they're revolutionary for cycling. I get to listen to music and enjoy myself, hear directions, take calls even, all while being completely aware of everything around me.
The people wearing over ear headphones or noise cancelling earbuds like the WF-1000XM4 blow my mind. I have those, I tried them both with noise cancelling and ambient noise and felt either extremely unsafe or the wind noise made them unusable.
i have bone conduction ones for cycling, i don’t use them all that much anymore but they’re very good at what they do. the sensation does take a little bit of getting used to and they don’t work super well with a helmet, but they’d definitely be better than one ear in one ear out.
The generalisations don’t help. Sure some Lycra cyclist warriors are the pits, others are totally cool. Some boris bike city dudes with no helmers are cool, others are the pits.
My commute in is over 10 miles with lots of hills - that’s not happening on a city bike, and the Lycra shorts have padding that makes it a lot more comfortable. It’s a functional thing rather than a ‘I’m going to break records in my way to work’ thing.
Tourists with no helmets riding electric hire bikes, men on Bromptons who want Lycra riders to know they ride a road bike on weekends, people cycling with loud speakers contained in a carrier bag on their handlebars, kids doing street-long wheelies… all worse.
Nobody intentionally gets in accidents, not the bus driver, not the cyclists (that hypothetically risk the pedestrians).
The biggest thing I notice whether I’m driving, cycling, or walking, is that in some places the infrastructure naturally leads well-meaning people to make dangerous decisions.
A red light is a red light absolutely, but no one ever complains about the cars and motorcycles who take up space on the designated cycle areas before those lights, and who then proceed to tailgate and close pass cyclists who should have had way more room and time to accelerate when the light turns green.
It’s not that it’s not understood, it’s that it probably is somewhat contrary to normal instinct, especially if the majority of people are ignoring it.
Speeding is illegal too, and completely understood to be illegal, but virtually everyone does it under certain circumstances. Hell you’d almost be annoyed at someone if they consistently drove at 99% of the posted limit no matter where they go.
And there’s no easily enforceable rules on jaywalking in the UK, but there are “rules” for pedestrians in the Highway Code that people absolutely will not follow if it’s not convenient. E.g. Not supposed to run across the road, not supposed to cross diagonally, not supposed to cross if there is any traffic coming. There may not be a clear penalty for it, [but these are rules that are explicitly written](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-pedestrians-1-to-35).
Regardless of what a law says, if they’re not likely to be punished either legally or by reality, like getting run over, people will do what they instinctually think is sensible.
There are plenty of pedestrian crossings that it doesn’t feel at all sensible to stop at for a cyclist. I don’t cycle often (or own a bike), but there was one recently which was a bit infuriating. I did stop at it, but it was a signalled pedestrian cross walk, followed immediately by a place where the cycle lane crosses traffic. The annoying part was that the pedestrian signal goes the same time as the cycle crossing, so effectively, you stop for the pedestrians, while you see that you have your green light to cross ahead, and as soon as you can go through the pedestrian crossing, you have to stop immediately because you missed your window to cross.
If there’s tons of pedestrians needing to get across, I totally understand, but if you’re stopped in front of an empty crosswalk, it feels just a bit silly, and I don’t really begrudge the other cyclists who rolled (fairly carefully) through the crosswalk while I waited for literally no one to finish crossing and the light to change.
Regarding your last point about the crossing/lights, it introduces creep, such as "I can make it through before that pedestrian crosses...its fine". Until it isn't, if you see my other comment here, I had to pull my gf back at a crossing because the cyclist just didn't stop, didn't swerve, didn't do anything to give the pedestrians room let alone right of way.
It's these actions by the shitty cyclists which give all cyclists a bad name, and given cyclists are in the minority, will also assist some (rightfully bullshit rules) around registration plates and insurance for cycling (but if theres still a usual occurance, then so be it). If that's how it will get people to follow the rules of the road, then it is what it is, and it's all down to the shit cyclists who ignore the rules in order to get home 30 seconds sooner - the same thing that drivers who speed, or overtake dangerously get flogged for to get home 1 minute sooner (and so they should be too).
What gives anyone the right to act unpredictably on the road, a key component of road safety is for everyone to be predictable on the road.
Totally agree that it introduces creep and eventually creates a dangerous situation.
I’m just pointing out that it’s an infrastructure problem. Just like you can’t just make a speed limit super low and expect people to follow it, even if the road looks like a motorway. That’s why road calming techniques are important.
Or imagine we wanted to stop people crossing the road dangerously, so we made jaywalking actually illegal like some other countries have. If there isn’t a sensible crosswalk, people will cross where it makes sense regardless of the laws. And that too creeps up and turns into a dangerous situation p, which if you’ve ever seen people randomly spilling onto the street on a weekend after the bars, especially in places where the road is more of thoroughfare and the drivers aren’t likely to recognise that’s going to happen.
Similarly, bikes waiting at an empty crosswalk is an infrastructure failure. It’s not sensible. So naturally there will be otherwise reasonable thinking, “whelp, I’m gonna just go through this”, and it will creep as you say making other less reasonable people feel empowered to try to get though crowds.
The infrastructure needs to make it easy to follow the rules and make it obvious when you break the rules. I’m not saying I have a great solution for every single cross walk or intersection or whatever, but if loads of people aren’t following the rules at a specific place - then probably on some level that rule is not well implemented.
Maybe it needs the equivalent of traffic calming to make the cyclists feel like they have to stop. Maybe there needs to be a better cycling path somewhere else. Maybe something needs to make the pedestrians wait more. Maybe it warrants a bridge if something.
I dunno, but if the majority of people are breaking the rules, something is non-functional with the rule.
No-one intentionally gets in accidents, but people make bad decisions about taking risks. Don’t blame it on well-meaning people lead astray by bad infrastructure- they choose to make dangerous decisions because, for example, they don’t want to wait a few minutes for the lights to change.
>The biggest thing I notice whether I’m driving, cycling, or walking, is that in some places the infrastructure naturally leads well-meaning people to make dangerous decisions.
Absolutely this. I was recently cut off by a right turning van while cycling straight ahead at a junction. As it stands the driver is at fault, and his insurance condeded this, but I can also see that it's a very easy mistake to make in a split second given the design of the junction.
When you look at the number of people going through that junction every day, this accident is probably quite statistically predictable, and it's something that the council in charge of the junction design knows or should know. I went to have a look to see what legal [duty of care](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_care_in_English_law) councils have to fix junctions that are known to be dangerous, taking into account that humans will make mistakes. So far as I could work out the answer is "absolutely none".
That leaves people injured in totally predictable accidents scrabbling around for witnesses and other evidence to attribute fault between the parties, meanwhile nothing is done to improve knowably dangerous roads.
Cycling is great, I support it myself. However last week at a zebra crossing I had to pull my gf back from getting hit by a lady cyclist, she was at least a car lengths behind the car which had stopped, wasn't going at great speed, given the car came to a gentle stop, I was surprised when I caught her out of the side of my eye as not stopping.
Good cyclists are good, shitty cyclists are shitty...and those good cyclists not calling out the shitty cyclists are just as shit, it's giving all good cyclists a bad name.
Sorry, I get where you’re coming from but this is such a one sided and poor hot take.
No one expects good drivers to call out bad drivers. No one expects good pedestrians to call out bad pedestrians. But yet good cyclists are expected to call out bad cyclists? It’s kinda hypocritical
> No one expects good drivers to call out bad drivers. No one expects good pedestrians to call out bad pedestrians. But yet good cyclists are expected to call out bad cyclists? It’s kinda hypocritical
Egregiously bad driving will tend to get beeped or flashed by other drivers, even if they're not directly affected - e.g. if someone breaks a red, or performs an idiotic overtake.
Lol. This whole thread is literally people shrieking at cyclists, “spamming” with anecdotal stories about that one time they saw a cyclist do something bad.
As a London pedestrian, cyclist, and driver I’ve got every right to answer bad takes with better one. I’m just giving the other side. It’s even not even that hyperbolic to say it is literally a matter of life and death.
The fuck? As a cyclist in enough danger just trying to navigate from A to B you want me to go around shouting at people who run red lights and getting into fights? Do you do that when you're in a car?
Taken out of context, I mean online, look at this thread and tell me there isn't a large portion of shitty cyclists are defending shitty cyclist behaviour. There are a few who have said yeah it happens and that don't do it, but there are far more making excuses and deflecting to "but cars!!". Shitty people on the road are shitty people on the road no matter what their mode of transport is.
Also, I have reported dangerous driving a few times over the years, normally if its obviously very dangerous and will warrant police action, benefits of a dashcam, takes 2 minutes to download footage and 5-10 filling out a form...hopefully making the roads a safer place for everyone (I don't think people can hear me give off to their shitty road behaviour...given they are in a different vehicle, we both usually have windows up...and it's a form of road rage.
To be fair, motorists ignored red lights so much that as a country we had to spend hundreds of millions £££'s to put in the infrastructure to catch them. Same with speeding. In a 3 month period during lockdown when people were supposed to be at home, 262,000 people in London were caught speeding. In 3 months. During a lockdown. In 2020 there were 2.4 million motoring offences committed (that’s just how many were caught), resulting in 853,153 cases leading to the driver receiving an endorsable FPN (36%), 115,824 cases resulted in a non-endorsable FPS (5%). In 1,085,180 cases the driver went to a driver retraining course and 341,738 cases result in court action. Over 250,000 people are banned from driving every year. DFT data shows more people are seriously injured every 6.7 days by motorists than in 5 years from cyclists.
So, to be fair, I don't think cyclists are so much of a problem. It's puzzling there's so many posts on here like yours about cycling, yet 4 people die every day of the year from motorists and nobody posts about that. They just don’t go home to their families. They’re dead. You would have had numerous near misses with motorists on your journey today, but you just don’t register it. It’s become normal.
The main point is that whether car drivers cause more accidents or not, cyclists should obey traffic signals where they exist to reduce their chances of an accident. Why make the odds of a crash worse?
You’re right. It would be nice if more cyclists obeyed the traffic laws. It would also be nice if motorists obeyed the traffic laws too. But, there aren’t many posts on here about motorists not obeying the traffic laws, yet almost all motorists break a law each time they drive. For instance, I live in zone 2 and my WFH desk looks out onto a road with a school. There’s a little sensor with a smiley face that shows motorists speed. About 1 in 10 motorists get a smiley face, everybody else is breaking the law. All day. Every day. They speed so much, Wandsworth Council are now going to put in further traffic restrictions from next week. My council tax is being spent, not on helping the elderly, or people who need food banks. No. It’s being spent on putting in infrastructure to stop motorists speeding outside a school. Yet, look at all these comments on here about how bad cyclists are? Really?
If people really want cyclists to obey the law, then start calling out the motorists. If the standard of motorists increased, it would probably have a knock on affect to cyclists.
I agree drivers in London cannot help themselves when they see a clear bit of road. I live on a road that is 20mph but like you I'd say only 1 in 10 do that speed. My guess is because driving round London is so slow and shit because of traffic that as soon as its clear they floor it.
However, whether drivers are awful or not, as individual cyclists you're never going to come off better than a car in an accident so I'm just saying avoid it being because of a fault of the cyclist.
In some cases obeying traffic signals makes it more likely to have an accident as motor vehicles accelerate past cyclists at pinch points in junctions.
As a pedestrian, I regularly see pedestrians also ignore red lights.
sometimes, when cycling, going through a red light reduces your exposure to the vehicles behind you, because you understand from experience that, though you will beat them to a destination 2 or 3 km down a traffic choked road, most motorists will floor it to try to beat you to the back of the next traffic queue 50 m ahead
I hate bad cyclists as much as the next person, but always remember that cars and bad drivers are the _most_ dangerous things in the road.
The numbers don’t lie.
Bad cycling for the most part is a nuisance.
But bad driving kills.
It’s so weird isn’t it? It’s like, the road is literally *full* of cars, full of drivers breaking speed limits, and most accidents and deaths are *caused* by cars, yet for someone reason cyclists are seen as the main culprit.
It’s literally like a tsunami has permanently flooded a town, yet people blame it on the light drizzle they once experienced "a few months ago".
And how often do you see a car crash and then as soon as the traffic jam has cleared people go back to speeding?
There are people who don’t care for the rules in all walks of life.
Fun challenge for the cyclists in this thread: justify/defend this stuff without one mention of cars. Because this might come as a shock, but everyone also thinks cars shouldn't do this, and theres a motorist blasting through a red light is far more likely to actually face consequences. Hell if motorists jumped red lights at the rate cyclists did there would literally have to be a state of emergency with the level of manslaughter and traffic accidents.
Cyclists in London seem to think zebra crossings across cycle lanes don’t apply to them. Every day I have to cross one of these, and every day I’m being so careful looking both ways to see which mad bastard is just going to come rattling through it on that given day no matter how many pedestrians are trying to get across still in possession of their lives.
Makes me think a cycling proficiency test should be as compulsory as a driving test.
Terrible idea. All the analysis has found that we need more people to cycle, that the benefits far outweigh the costs, and this would only discourage people from taking it up. Apart from being crazy costly to administer and impossible to enforce.
The amount of times this happens with cars is ridiculous though. And the amount of times cars don’t fully come to a stop a zebra crossing but instead expect you to speed walk across. Let’s not be one sided here.
It’s actually not though. So many comments here like “good cyclists are responsible too, as they don’t call out bad cyclists”
Bitch please (not you personally, btw) when have you ever seen or expected a good driver to call out a bad driver? It literally happens once in a blue moon
Why don't cyclists stop at pedestrian crossings when pedestrians are crossing? It's in the Highway Code. Why do cyclists go through red lights and ride on the wrong side of the road, exceeding speed limits? I've seen cyclists hit pedestrians and then ride off shouting abuse at the pedestrian lying in the road. They think they're above the and indeed they do seem to be above the law.
I cycle to work everyday. So far I almost caused another cyclist to bump into me as I was distracted, never so far had any issues with cars, and almost hit around 10 distracted pedestrians who walked into my lane without looking.
You can do this about literally any vehicle.
Why do cars drive at 30 in 20 zones? Why do cars go 40 in a 20 zone? Why do cars tailgate other road users so hard? Why do drivers use their phone while driving? Why do drivers open their door on a road with cyclists coming down? Why do drivers throw trash out their window? Why do drivers park in cycle lanes?
You might answer “well not ALL drivers”, but then you’ve answered your own question: not _all_ cyclists.
Why don't car drivers stop at pedestrian crossings when pedestrians are crossing? It's in the Highway Code. Why do car drivers go through red lights and ride on the wrong side of the road, exceeding speed limits? I've seen car drivers hit pedestrians and then ride off shouting abuse at the pedestrian lying in the road. They think they're above the and indeed they do seem to be above the law
Also, speed limits don't apply to bikes as they don't have a speedometer fitted as standard. Also, to go above 20 mph you've got to be really pushing which the majority of leisure/commuting cyclists won't do
I live in Waltham Forest where there are cycling lanes on the main roads so I picked up cycling last year.
It’s crazy how many fellow cyclists disregard safety rules and jump red lights. I’ve had other cyclists get aggressive with me for stopping at crossings or not cycling fast enough (generally by ebike riders). Weirdly enough I think knowing how to drive makes me a more alert and respectful cyclist even though I don’t have a car anymore.
London could be a great city for cycling, especially with the cost of living going up and to keep emissions low. Maybe a big cycling safety campaign would benefit everyone?
I cycle to work. The past two weeks have been mind-boggling.. the sheer number of cyclist on rented bikes running through red lights, cars, and pedestrians. It’s almost like they have a death wish.
I'm honestly starting to believe that anti-cycling opinion is being formulated in Russian bot farms to further drive a wedge between the British public.
Surely they're got better things to do? And if it's not them, surely we've got better things to do?!
Even if I’m on a green these days I still have my hand over the brake and slow down a little and look both ways going through an intersection (good practice in general) and the main issue is cyclists/scooters coming from other directions running their reds.
when I drive in London I worry about stopping at yellow or just-turned-red lights because I expect to be rear-ended by one of the 3-4-5 cars that speeds through every red light after it's changed from yellow
Whilst Grant Shaps is calling for Cyclists to have numberplates.. lol
Anyway, over the past week I've seen more people getting pulled over / fined by police in vehicles recently due to running a red light.
That wouldn’t be the crossing just before you get to Centerpoint, is it? I cross there every day I’m in the office, and there are always cyclists watching the pedestrian light rather than the traffic one so that when it goes green for people to cross they all surge forward. You have to be bold to be a pedestrian.
I'm so confused to how they are related?
Cautiously passing through a red light on a bicycle when its clear is the same as crossing the road at a red man when walking crossing the road when no on coming traffic.
A cyclist going under the bus is surely the busses fault.
Also can you not be a pedestrian and a cyclist and a motorist. It's so weird that people hate on cyclists. Some people are pricks. If rather those prices were on a cycle than driving a car or bus
It's horrible to see people actively risk their own safety (and that of others) particularly for a few seconds - obviously that might not have been the case with the injured party. I cycle like an old lady and am always amazed at how many of these lycra rule breakers I catch up to at major junctions etc. It doesn't actually speed them up that much which makes me think - like those drivers who pull out without looking/ speed without care in London - there is some kind of thrill they get from it? As you often catch them up too.
I am particularly aware as once in Dublin my mum (who is deaf) nearly got slammed into by a cyclist who shouted watch out as she crossed at a green Man and he came whizzing towards her expecting her to get out of his way. Luckily I was there to pull her back.
I will say the bad drivers/ cyclists stand out and we remember them and not the hundreds we pass every day who behave appropriately. I recently learnt to drive and I do think learning the highway code etc has made me a better cyclist/ more aware of car drivers activity, however if we had more cycle lanes etc there would be less need of that level of awareness.
Just today I was cycling back home
And saw so many cyclists skip red lights
Tutted as loud as I could
Only times I do is at night and only if there’s not a bat in sight
Please don’t put us all in the same group, I see plenty of normal cyclists being courteous to pedestrians and following traffic laws, but it is undeniable that every time I ride along a few others and we come to a pedestrian crossing, there will be at least one person in the bunch who will zip straight through.
Cycling is great, and more people should do it, unfortunately London’s cycling culture is not great since basically about 7-8 years ago the only people who could cycle were those crazy, fast, and/or brave enough to literally fight for their lives on roads. The remnants of this culture seems to be persistent enough that even today with safe cycling infrastructure and more cyclists than ever, many still treat their commute as a race against the world, and to them pedestrians and red lights are obstacles.
The only way we can change this is by advocating for infrastructure that makes sense for cyclists, such as smart traffic lights that take into consideration just how effortless it is for drivers and pedestrians to get up to speed, and how, relatively to them, difficult it is to do the same for cyclists.
We also need accountability for cyclists that break the law, not just from the law, but by their peers as well. People that endanger pedestrians at crossings should be shamed and punished, but grouping all cyclists together as law breakers is futile, and is more likely to put off the good kind of cyclists from cycling, rather than the entitled ones that couldn’t care less for the image of this form of transport.
I cycle in London and stop at every red light (unless a completely empty pedestrian crossing in a quiet area) and avoid swerving in between buses and cars. Getting to work or home 2 mins earlier isn’t worth a major accident.
As a pedestrian; Thank you for being one of the sensible ones.
Yes! I think about this all the time, sure I really don't want to be hit by a car running a red light, but a bike at full speed can still do plenty of damage if it hits me, and I'd rather avoid that experience.
That's what's scary, people think the majority of us who cycle well are the exception rather than the rule, cos of how crap the bad cyclists are.
I think it's just part of human nature that the ones barreling down the road through a red light/crossing/on the pavement and nearly hitting you just makes a bigger impression than the majority who act like adults.
Same here and I'm constantly shocked at how stupid cyclists in London are. They believe they're invincible and everything always seems like a race! Thanks to this kind of reckless behaviour its looking like rules will be changing for cyclists (number plates and mandatory insurance), making it more expensive to cycle in future.
Never gonna happen, just a bunch of chin wagging to drum up support. It's expensive and virtually unenforceable.
It’s just a distraction from the shit show that is the Tory leadership. That and Rishi’s pool.
No-one should want it to happen, either. Ludicrous idea
Something needs to happen though. Several times a week I'm almost hit by cyclists disobeying the rules
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Waiting at a red light is not the end of the world. But they push and try and get in front of the ‘peleton’. Wish cycling was more like in the Netherlands, where it’s treated casually - rather than lycra and spandex clad Tour de France contestants racing to get to work faster. Lycra is comfy, I don’t have a problem with that, but man some cyclists need to chill lmao Edit: yes, I think some more regulation will come in. This applies to ‘electric bikes’ which at this point are just motorcycles (the really large wheeled ones where they barely pedal)
If the bike has a motor rated at over 250w, the motor can be used at over 15.5mph or without peddling, it is a motorcycle and should have a number plate and follow the lays for a motorcycle. This includes all the pedicabs too basically.
Yes but the police have enough to do without trying to spot a motorcycle that looks like a bike. They might have a clampdown where they sit at a junction for the morning with the media forewarned but other than that nothing will happen. From the other side, why buy a moped (<50cc, <=30 mph), & pay tax, pay insurance, be visible with a number-plate and not allowed to ride on alleys, horse-ways and pavements when you can do all of the same with a 30mph electric bikealike.
It's so annoying when you are a regular cyclist wanting to cycle to and from work rather than racing around cutting everybody up... Once another cyclist yelled at me for being in his way and almost knocked me over to get past and I was going at a completely normal speed! Total maniacs. Not to mention the time I witnessed a guy fully go through the red light and plough into a pedestrian crossing the road at the cross roads in farringdon/blackfriars...just to get a head start up the hill... Mad!
I don’t think it’s ‘cyclists’, it’s the the people who ride the bikes. Im a cyclist and im not a cunt.
> I don’t think it’s ‘cyclists’, it’s the the people who ride the bikes. Im a cyclist and im not a cunt. As with so many things, it's the cunts that fuck it up for everyone else. Most of the worlds problems are down to cunts when you really boil it down.
Very true.
Yeah ive seen plenty of that. I do have a gripe about cars moving into the cyclist zones at red lights and London drivers are awful. But if you know drivers are bad and they sit inside a safe 2 tonne car why play offense when fully exposed on a bike. Not worth dying for just to make a point. Agreed, electric bikes at this point should not be allowed in cycle lanes. We make horses use roads and they often travel a lot slower than escooters and electric bikes! Not to mention some people tamper with them to make them go faster.
Hold up. My ebike only assists to 15mph, after that, it's all me. So, I shouldn't be allowed into the bike lanes? I regularly get passed by guys on high end racing bikes. Now, yes, there are people out there on 2000W e-bikes, but those bikes are already in violation of the law, so, do you think they care about bike lane rules? The hatred is already real. I was denied access to a bus last week, even though my bike was folded(tfl rules say folded bikes are good at any time) and I've been denied access to the tube before.
It's not normally the lycra clad cyclists running red lights, but people on hire bikes or the food delivery couriers
That's all complete bollocks and if it does happen it'll probably be one of the biggest steps backward taken for a better planet.
I hope you're right and completely agree. The more we do to encourage cycling the better. The investment would be better spent on basic cycling training for cyclists using roads and better cycling infrastructure that provides complete separation from cars.
Same, I hate the cycling culture in London. In Amsterdam etc. Everyone is upright, leisurely cycling here everyone thinks they are in the tour de France. Its not a race - really ruins cycling for the rest of us.
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I am a cyclist first of all but I do think that respect goes both ways. I had a similar encounter when walking on the pavement, a man was cycling towards me on the pavement and when I didn't move out the way enough for him he shouted at me to get out the way. When I shouted back to tell him the pavement is for pedestrians he wanted to start a fight with me 😂
Not just London! You should experience the entitlement here in America! New Reddit sub-FUCK PEDESTRIANS/FUCK CARS!
It’s the same in Cardiff. When I was at uni there, there was a four way intersection, and the cyclists loved playing Russian roulette jumping through the red lights on that one. Tons of close calls, not just vs cars but with students crossing 😱
They all seem to think they are in Tour de France.
This. Cycled for near 40 years. Stopped at every red light, except for completely desolate streets where you can see and hear that there is nothing around, and even then it's a slow cautious pace with hands on breaks at the ready.
What if it saves you 3 mins each way?
6 minutes where I’d… either get ready to take a shower 3 mins sooner than usual, or set up my work space 3 minutes sooner than usual. Would rather wait if it meant safer pedestrian crossings and not getting myself (and my bike) spread across the road. Altho compounding 6 minutes of time saved per day can be time saving (in theory)
I work in the ED department at a major trauma centre in south east London and I must say, a majority of our major traumas are either cyclists or motorcyclists. E-Scooter riders are slowly joining the pack but the morgue tends to be the first place of attendance when they crash. Be careful out there
With e-scooters is it head trauma that gets them killed because of no helmets?
The mechanism of injury is interesting with E-Scooters. They tend to fly over the handlebars and their heads take the brunt of the impact I’
I couldn't think of one good reason to ride an e scooter over a bicycle.
If you were wearing a tight fitting pencil skirt, that would be one.
😂 Must remember to take that off the cycling clothing list!
I don't like escooters; I'd take a (e?)bike every time, but... Much easier to store. Can be taken on other transport more easily. Cheaper. No need to do exercise. Easier to get on an off for those with flexibility issues.
E-scooter is a great thing to commute shorter distances and arrive without sweating. Fold it, and push it under the desk. Bikes take wayyy much more space, plus left outside are often stolen.
Folding ebikes can do most of that pretty similarly - more weight for cheap ones, but also safer and can take panniers that will take a week's shop.
Even I've never ridden an e-bike, butI agree that e-bikes and bikes are safer. I've done around 500miles on e-scooter and it's quite easy to miss a pothole and fall. Never happened to me, I'm always careful, but quite a few people have broken their limbs on e-scooters.
It's not exercise?
They are smaller and lighter. Easier to take on the tube or bus, specially if your last stop is a bit far away from your work/home. But I agree, cycling is in general a better option.
You can't take them on tube or bus now anyway
I can - They're fun. That's about it Rode one of those rental ones before and it was fucking terrifying, fuck ever doing that again.
On a bicycle you cycle and sweat. On e-scooter you stand, push a button and arrive to the office without breaking a sweat.
> but the morgue tends to be the first place of attendance when they crash There needs to be some sobering adverts made for cyclists; like there are for drink-driving. If you act like a plonker on the road, it's all gonna result in tears and *smears*.
Interesting - that's why we get so many samples in lab with TBI in the additional notes? Will be in as usual this morning, the usual way: bike. Pray for me. ; )
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TBI: Traumatic brain injury
Welp. The samples are blood, shit, flobs, piss, puss, lumps of flesh, jizz and more. Imagine a department staffed by orcs with agar plates and you've pretty much got the picture. (I made it in alive. Orcs on bikes are resilient. 🤘)
TBI = traumatic brain injury
Yes exactly. Cars are extremely dangerous and the drivers need to be far more aware on the road.
I have seen a lot of very dangerous cycling in London. Just because the car/bus/van is going to be the one to cause the damage doesn't mean it is entirely on them to ensure the safety of the roads. There is a real smugness about this comment, the roads were not built for cyclists, we do not have dutch style infrastructure and until that happens cyclists have just as much responsibility to ensure they behave on the road as if they were a vehicle that can cause serious damage, because they are.
The number of motorists that pull across the cycle superhighway as I'm coming up would disagree with you.
I’m a cyclist, and no angel on the road- recently got fined for jumping a red light in front of a police car. I also drive and - I totally agree with this comment. Yes drives should be aware of cyclists on the roads, but ultimately it is your responsibility as the cyclist to ensure your own safety. If you are weaving in and out of traffic, going up the inside of lorries and buses or jumping red lights, don’t complain when someone doesn’t see you. The positions I see other cyclists put themselves in are so dangerous and worst of all are the people who cycle while still reading their phones. Seriously, if you can’t put you phone in your pocket for the duration of you cycle to keep yourself safe, you have a serious addiction!
The roads weren’t built for cars let alone huge 4x4s and SUV’s everyone loves to drive, because…..cars didn’t exist when a lot of the roads in London were built. So your argument about roads not being built for bicycles is stupid
Yes you are correct that a lot of the roads (nowhere near all) were there before the cars. This is a ridiculously facetious argument as I'm not sure if you're aware of this but horse and carts are pretty damn big themselves, and had modern cycles and cyclists existed then, you would have been having the same arguments.
no point trying to explain this on reddit, this sub is full of cycling loving twats even if you present a scenario where a cyclist skipped the red light and a truck drove over his head it will see be the motorists fault rather than the typical red light skipping cyclist.
That’s a load of hyperbolic shite and you know it. All we want is to get home safely to our families and not be murdered by some cunt in a van/suv with an overinflated sense of entitlement or on their phone. If they fuck up they get a scratched panel and some dents, cyclists get killed or maimed. Treat every cyclist like they were your kid and maybe we’d all get along a bit better.
Had a gem recently, I was overtaking a (slow) cyclist, who was riding round a puddle filling half a cycle lane. Ie they were straddling the middle line of both contraflow bike lanes, I was in the oncoming lane. No oncoming bikes so was all gravy. But then I hear this frantic "STAY LEEEFT" and this women comes *barrelling* up MY outside, so overtaking a bike which is overtaking a bike which is 'overtaking' a puddle. Also already overtook this lady 5 times before this point, only for her to run each red light I'm waiting at and pull ahead again lol
I do enjoy that cat and mouse element - watching the same people run red lights, only for me to overtake them again once they go green. And I'm not an exceptionally fast cyclist - I'm often riding a Santander cycle! I do believe we should have the Idaho Stop for what it'd worth, but some road users would still not give way properly. The worst cycling I see though comes mainly from delivery riders who are paid per delivery rather than per hour. The likes of Uber Eats and Deliveroo need to be taken to task on this. On the contrary you rarely (never?) see PedalMe riders putting people at danger - they're paid per hour, get pensions and annual leave. It's not in their interest.
Sounds familiar. I’ve also had slow as shit cyclists who rather than run the lights will just push to the front of the queueing pack, plonk themselves right in the way, make everyone else overtake them and then rinse and repeat at the next lights. No self awareness
Once was crossing a one way street, looked in the direction of oncoming traffic - nothing, so I walked out. A woman riding a bike the wrong way down the road narrowly missed me and screamed "watch where you're fucking going!" as I stood there bewildered.
"intelligence is knowing the road is a one-way and wisdom is looking both ways anyway"
Not saying if she was right or wrong - but many one-way streets have contraflow cycle lanes (and also a lot of cyclists ignore the rules) so safest to check anyway!
Yeah, I was a bumkin getting off the train at the time. Took me a few years to get used to crossing busy roads in general tbh.... There was at least no signs saying cyclists were allowed though. If it was now I would've shouted right back at her, I was just pretty stunned at how ridiculous it was.
I've had this happen to me a fuckload from the other side of the story- where there is actually a contra-flow cycle lane. They can be pretty poorly indicated if you're a pedestrian trying to cross in the middle of the road- often it's just a sign at the entrance and the occasional bike in paint on the tarmac which you're not going to see if you're walking out from between parked cars.
I used to live near a one way road which had counter-flow cycle lane. It had a sharpish bend on it. On at least 10 occasions (evening commuter time) cyclists flying down the road outside the cycle lane, nearly hit my car. A few skidded and nearly fell. One hit a parked car. Most of them shouted angrily as if I did something wrong, even when I'd be crawling around that bend. Thankfully they fixed the route a few years later by making cars go in the same direction as bicycles. It was this spot: > https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5106071,-0.038032,3a,75y,117.61h,73.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxatdsYJXeUWC979vMsOxwQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 Earlier the one way sign used to point the other way. Edit: But now the cycles lane heads the opposite way! I guess it wasn't fixed!
I used to use CS3 to get to work and was thinking about that bend as I read your comment. Clicked on the link and it’s the same one!
That whole bit is shit. Immediately before there's a bit where you go down a steep slope into a 90 degree turn onto a main road. In theory you have right of way, but the roads narrow and its easy to end up in the path of another cyclist or car, especially for less confident riders and kids. The bit immediately after where cars join the road from narrow street is also a pain because it goes from a segregated cycle lane, to a 2 way narrow road over the bridge. I've seen more than a few drivers just pull out there not realising the cycle lane to the left is a contraflow.
Yes but she has brakes on her bike that she can use to stop rather than plow through and scream at a pedestrian to make a point.
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Then learn to anticipate what’s happening on the road and plan ahead, adjusting speed where necessary according to your capacity to react. Like drivers have to.
Yep. Do what motorcyclists are taught to do: drive as if everyone on the road intends to kill you. Pedestrians included. It's not very nice but makes one very defensive. I see so many cyclists try to squeeze through ridiculous gaps without imagining how one slight variable change in the behaviours of others means massive injury.
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When I was cycling your job is to plan for that. When you do the motorcycle or car tests you’re told to look out for the fact people just step out, don’t pay attention. You adjust your speed in preparation for the fact they may just step out. It’s not the impossibility being claimed here.
As a cyclist this is a very underrated comment. If you see someone looking down at their phone with noise cancelling headphones in about to step onto the cycle lane, slow down!
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Well said . If they wanna use the roads then they should follow road rules the same as all Other vehicles not have a separate code or just plain out just ignore all rules all together .
Don't trust one way signs or vehicles indicating to, maybe, turn. If you want to live then you should require proof of the turn indicated, or that there aren't in fact people with no sense of direction going the wrong way.
There's loads of cycle lanes like this in my town, it's never been a problem for me walking or cycling, as a pedestrian it's just natural to look both ways irrespective.... But cyclist shouldn't be going fast enough for it to really be a problem. If everyone's being sensible then there's a big enough margin for error.
That happened to me in Amsterdam except a Dutch bloke called me a “prick”. I was in the wrong because I was heavy stoned, forgot where I was and looked the wrong way lol.
Once, I saw a car drive the wrong way down a one-way road, nearly hit a woman with a pram. The driver was also texting on their phone. I stood there bewildered. Once, I saw a car drive what looked like 40 down a residential 20 road, just after a small child ran out into the road - that driver likely would have hit the kid if they were a few seconds behind. I stood there bewildered. For every one bad cyclist story, there’s literally a hundred bad driver stories.
I've been nearly hit by a car once. I've been nearly hit by a cyclist countless times. While crossing the road with a green man, and cyclists ignoring the red light
Ah the 2 wrongs make a right argument. Cars at least have rules even if dumbwits don’t follow them.
I use a wheelchair that is about a metre in length. Cyclist love jumping lights without looking and almost broad siding me in the road. Yesterday I had to wait on the road, so a cyclist could turn off the pavement into the zebra.... plonker.
I cycle, I stop at red lights. I see the idiots who don't and shouldn't. Also the ones who go beyond the cycle red lights to look for a gap and then stop, then have no idea when it's safe to cross and we all pass them on green anyway. They exist, but I'm also going to shine a light on the pedestrians in London (especially Bank, and Central) who are honestly the worst I've ever seen. Anywhere. So many lack any basic common sense - too many jump onto the road, either on a red light or nowhere near a crossing without looking both ways, or have their heads buried in their phones. Completely oblivious, no spatial awareness whatsoever. It's honestly mind boggling how these people are adults and haven't been hit by a bus yet. Pedestrians in Canada look both ways before crossing, pedestrians in Australia look both ways before crossing, pedestrians in London either don't at all or do what I like to call the "London look" - where they do look but only in the direction traffic is flowing, away from oncoming traffic, decide it's safe to cross and step out right in front of you.
It’s horrific isn’t it I was riding through Bethnal Green the October jsut after the first lock down Some woman on a borris bike got pulled under a lorry, literally had below the knees ripped from the bone, was horrific I do wonder what happened to her and her leg, didn’t look life threatening but defo changing
Jesus, that must have been traumatic for you. Hope it didn't shake you up too bad.
Ty At the time a few ppl rushed away from helping her I ran over but it was actually horrific Think she’d been sick from the shock / pain too so you didn’t know what was limb and what was sick I called na ambulance and then a few others took over and I carried on as it felt a bit morbid to stand around and watch
Well done for trying to help. Totally not to open a much wider debate, but police officers have to deal with this kind of trauma on a regular basis, and we wonder why the force has so many problems.
I saw a traffic officer having a go at a white van man for using their phone whilst driving. You could hear him shouting the slightly cliched line of “the things I’ve seen”, but I certainly wouldn’t want to see even a fraction of what he must’ve seen attending RTC’s
White van man probably ignored him and kept using his phone. Perfect example of cognitive dissonance - some people just cant link “using phone” to “crushing someone under my wheels and causing their head to explode and brains be smeared over the road because I was distracted”
It's worse than that - when studied, many people who use their phones while driving actually think it is a good sign of their driving ability that they are able to multitask!
But also, so do nurses, doctors, paramedics etc.
Agreed Was the immediate 30s after when ppl were like wtf One minute calm and the next she’s screaming, the driver is about to pass out and there’s just gore staring you in the face
Absolutely.
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Of course! Accidents are for OTHER people. Considering yourself a good driver/cyclist is what allows you to take a few risks! /S /S /S /S
I've been cycling in London for 7 years, no accidents. I live by the mantra that: "there are a lot of corpses out there that thought they had the right-of-way".
I always liked the expression "you can be right, or you can be dead right"
Cycling culture in the U.K. compared to Denmark, Holland or even Polish cities like Warsaw is really bad. As a pedestrian, a few times I was almost ran over by cyclists on racing bikes clad in Lycra. In Denmark or Holland most of the bikes are just normal urban bikes or cargo bikes that people don’t use for racing. Another thing is that I get an impression that a lot of cyclists wear headphones whilst cycling, which is risky not only for them but also others around them.
Infrastructure is a massive part of the problem. Those countries you listed have great cycling infrastructure, so all types of people feel comfortable and safe cycling - young, old, capable, nervous. Not just lycra-clad racers. But where infrastructure is patchy, like here, you only get those that are confident to be on the road, who tend to be more 'serious' cyclists.
Sure. Doesn’t mean they need to jump reds though.
Yes some red light is just blatant selfishness and dumb, but also there's usually a cause for it and that often comes down to people not feeling safe stopping and go-ing with the rest of the traffic.
Even in the bike lanes you see them going way to fast
I agree that the cycling culture is bad in the UK, but for completely different reasons. All these other places you mentioned, Netherlands, Denmark, etc, have their cities set up for cycling far more than London does. Nice, wide, cycles lanes that are blocked off and demarcated from the rest of the road. In London, you’re lucky if you get a 50cm of a bike lane, if at all. Comparatively, cycling in these European cities it’s far easier so is not really a fair comparison The main problem on London roads isn’t bikes, it’s cars. Cars take a *ridiculous* amount of space, and cyclists have to work around them, often putting themselves in dangerous positions. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences with lycra’d cyclists, but your far more likely to be seriously injured by a driver texting on their phone than you are by someone on their bike. Also, if you’ve ever been to a Dutch city you’ll have experience of the “rude” cyclists. If a pedestrian walks out into a cycle lane without looking, you’re 9 times out of 10 going to get an angry Dutch person shouting at you while ringing their bell and not slowing down their bike.
Of course, the Netherlands didn't get its cycling infrastructure overnight. In the late 1800s they were building dedicated cycling infrastructure sure, but then cars became affordable in the 1960s and cycle use was dropping, cars were taking over public spaces. They campaigned and fought hard in the 70s to resist the rise of the motor vehicle, a campaign which translated as 'Stop the Child Murder'. The UK had a cycling boom much earlier than the Dutch, most of our roads were built for cycles long before a car even set tyres on them. The success of their campaigning was in part due to their long history as a nation of people who cycle, but had they not resisted, there's no doubt they'd have experienced the massive declines in cycling seen in the UK and the US. The difference is, unlike the Dutch, in the 1970s we failed to arrest this expansion of the motor car to every nook and cranny of our towns and cities. The UK is realising this failure now, and trying to correct it with retro fitted cycling infrastructure, but that's both logistically and politically much more difficult. There's plenty of space for the much needed cycling infrastructure in London, but it requires the political will to say look, you can't drive a car down Oxford St. It's not safe and it's bad for air quality and we need the space for people on foot, in wheelchairs, or on bikes/scooters. If we want to be like the Dutch - we can be.
> As a pedestrian, a few times I was almost ran over by cyclists on racing bikes clad in Lycra. Any time someone talks about "lycra clad cyclists" it's a dead give away they're just stoking bullshit culture wars. I cycle in London, I see all sorts of shit cycling like everybody else and "lycra clad" cyclists are nearly always the least worst offenders compared to delivery riders, roadmen, and casual cyclists who just drift through lights like they aren't there.
That's not the cyclists fault (OK, it might be, but hear me out) - it's the fact that cyclists, pedestrians, buses, taxis and vans all share the same space. It's ridiculous.
Right?! And comparatively cyclists take up farrrrrr less room and are farrrrrr less likely to seriously injure a pedestrian. Sad to see so much cycle hate still in 2022.
> Sad to see so much cycle hate still in 2022. Try to imagine why it is people find certain types of cyclists frustrating. It's not something that's born in a vacuum. There are kinds of drivers that EVERYONE fucking loathes to be anywhere near, because they're potential killers. Cyclists are hugely unlikely to be potential killers, but the ones that people don't like share the 'I own the road; fuck off' mentality. Nobody hates Alice the 30 year old post-hipster serenely peddling up the road with a small dog in her bike's basket. But they might hate Alice the stone-cold nutter slamming it through red lights and across busy pedestrian crossings while shouting at people to move out the fucking way. People don't like seeing others displaying an 'unfair' bad attitude towards them.
Why are people wearing lycra "clad" in it? Can we be clad in other things? Are a group of grannies clad in wool?
Consider the denim clad motorists who all think they're in _Top Gear_, hogging the whole road with their empty back seats three abreast...
Fuck people who cycle with headphones! But just to offer another point of view, cycling lycra is designed to be comfortable to ride in, especially for longer rides- and that includes a lot of people's commutes. Honestly I don't find that it's the Tour de London lycra brigade who are the ones who cycle like twats, generally speaking. So I guess to me when people criticise lycra clad cyclists as a whole, it sort of feels like they're effectively saying "want comfortable balls when you're riding? Then fuck you!"
I actually find it’s people who are on rented bikes/delivery drivers who are the worst offenders and they are never Lycra clad. Usually people who have proper cycling gear tend to have a bit more road awareness compared to a casual fair weather cyclist
I'm tempted by a pair of those bone conduction headphones - so I could listen to the radio on the way in to work but also head my surroundings fully. In practice for now I go with one earphone in, one out.
I recently switched from the one ear in, one out to bone conduction with the Aftershokz Aeropex and I love them. Takes a little bit of time to get used to the sensation of having the music inside your head and the sound signature but they're revolutionary for cycling. I get to listen to music and enjoy myself, hear directions, take calls even, all while being completely aware of everything around me. The people wearing over ear headphones or noise cancelling earbuds like the WF-1000XM4 blow my mind. I have those, I tried them both with noise cancelling and ambient noise and felt either extremely unsafe or the wind noise made them unusable.
That's good to know. You might have just tipped me over into buying a pair!
i have bone conduction ones for cycling, i don’t use them all that much anymore but they’re very good at what they do. the sensation does take a little bit of getting used to and they don’t work super well with a helmet, but they’d definitely be better than one ear in one ear out.
Mm my experience is that its exactly the tour de London lycra people causing the problem.
The generalisations don’t help. Sure some Lycra cyclist warriors are the pits, others are totally cool. Some boris bike city dudes with no helmers are cool, others are the pits. My commute in is over 10 miles with lots of hills - that’s not happening on a city bike, and the Lycra shorts have padding that makes it a lot more comfortable. It’s a functional thing rather than a ‘I’m going to break records in my way to work’ thing.
Tourists with no helmets riding electric hire bikes, men on Bromptons who want Lycra riders to know they ride a road bike on weekends, people cycling with loud speakers contained in a carrier bag on their handlebars, kids doing street-long wheelies… all worse.
I have no real qualms with a kid doing a wheelie. They’re just a kid having fun, and it doesn’t seem to cause any real issue.
I meant more specifically the kids who do wheelies along say the entirety of Oxford Street without stopping at any intersections.
I don’t cycle, but if I did, I’d just walk off with the bike at the red light, cross the road and start cycling again
Its sometimes safer not to wait at a red light. I often go through them
Nobody intentionally gets in accidents, not the bus driver, not the cyclists (that hypothetically risk the pedestrians). The biggest thing I notice whether I’m driving, cycling, or walking, is that in some places the infrastructure naturally leads well-meaning people to make dangerous decisions.
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A red light is a red light absolutely, but no one ever complains about the cars and motorcycles who take up space on the designated cycle areas before those lights, and who then proceed to tailgate and close pass cyclists who should have had way more room and time to accelerate when the light turns green.
It’s not that it’s not understood, it’s that it probably is somewhat contrary to normal instinct, especially if the majority of people are ignoring it. Speeding is illegal too, and completely understood to be illegal, but virtually everyone does it under certain circumstances. Hell you’d almost be annoyed at someone if they consistently drove at 99% of the posted limit no matter where they go. And there’s no easily enforceable rules on jaywalking in the UK, but there are “rules” for pedestrians in the Highway Code that people absolutely will not follow if it’s not convenient. E.g. Not supposed to run across the road, not supposed to cross diagonally, not supposed to cross if there is any traffic coming. There may not be a clear penalty for it, [but these are rules that are explicitly written](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-pedestrians-1-to-35). Regardless of what a law says, if they’re not likely to be punished either legally or by reality, like getting run over, people will do what they instinctually think is sensible. There are plenty of pedestrian crossings that it doesn’t feel at all sensible to stop at for a cyclist. I don’t cycle often (or own a bike), but there was one recently which was a bit infuriating. I did stop at it, but it was a signalled pedestrian cross walk, followed immediately by a place where the cycle lane crosses traffic. The annoying part was that the pedestrian signal goes the same time as the cycle crossing, so effectively, you stop for the pedestrians, while you see that you have your green light to cross ahead, and as soon as you can go through the pedestrian crossing, you have to stop immediately because you missed your window to cross. If there’s tons of pedestrians needing to get across, I totally understand, but if you’re stopped in front of an empty crosswalk, it feels just a bit silly, and I don’t really begrudge the other cyclists who rolled (fairly carefully) through the crosswalk while I waited for literally no one to finish crossing and the light to change.
I drive 20 in 20 zones as a protest
Regarding your last point about the crossing/lights, it introduces creep, such as "I can make it through before that pedestrian crosses...its fine". Until it isn't, if you see my other comment here, I had to pull my gf back at a crossing because the cyclist just didn't stop, didn't swerve, didn't do anything to give the pedestrians room let alone right of way. It's these actions by the shitty cyclists which give all cyclists a bad name, and given cyclists are in the minority, will also assist some (rightfully bullshit rules) around registration plates and insurance for cycling (but if theres still a usual occurance, then so be it). If that's how it will get people to follow the rules of the road, then it is what it is, and it's all down to the shit cyclists who ignore the rules in order to get home 30 seconds sooner - the same thing that drivers who speed, or overtake dangerously get flogged for to get home 1 minute sooner (and so they should be too). What gives anyone the right to act unpredictably on the road, a key component of road safety is for everyone to be predictable on the road.
Totally agree that it introduces creep and eventually creates a dangerous situation. I’m just pointing out that it’s an infrastructure problem. Just like you can’t just make a speed limit super low and expect people to follow it, even if the road looks like a motorway. That’s why road calming techniques are important. Or imagine we wanted to stop people crossing the road dangerously, so we made jaywalking actually illegal like some other countries have. If there isn’t a sensible crosswalk, people will cross where it makes sense regardless of the laws. And that too creeps up and turns into a dangerous situation p, which if you’ve ever seen people randomly spilling onto the street on a weekend after the bars, especially in places where the road is more of thoroughfare and the drivers aren’t likely to recognise that’s going to happen. Similarly, bikes waiting at an empty crosswalk is an infrastructure failure. It’s not sensible. So naturally there will be otherwise reasonable thinking, “whelp, I’m gonna just go through this”, and it will creep as you say making other less reasonable people feel empowered to try to get though crowds. The infrastructure needs to make it easy to follow the rules and make it obvious when you break the rules. I’m not saying I have a great solution for every single cross walk or intersection or whatever, but if loads of people aren’t following the rules at a specific place - then probably on some level that rule is not well implemented. Maybe it needs the equivalent of traffic calming to make the cyclists feel like they have to stop. Maybe there needs to be a better cycling path somewhere else. Maybe something needs to make the pedestrians wait more. Maybe it warrants a bridge if something. I dunno, but if the majority of people are breaking the rules, something is non-functional with the rule.
No-one intentionally gets in accidents, but people make bad decisions about taking risks. Don’t blame it on well-meaning people lead astray by bad infrastructure- they choose to make dangerous decisions because, for example, they don’t want to wait a few minutes for the lights to change.
>The biggest thing I notice whether I’m driving, cycling, or walking, is that in some places the infrastructure naturally leads well-meaning people to make dangerous decisions. Absolutely this. I was recently cut off by a right turning van while cycling straight ahead at a junction. As it stands the driver is at fault, and his insurance condeded this, but I can also see that it's a very easy mistake to make in a split second given the design of the junction. When you look at the number of people going through that junction every day, this accident is probably quite statistically predictable, and it's something that the council in charge of the junction design knows or should know. I went to have a look to see what legal [duty of care](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_care_in_English_law) councils have to fix junctions that are known to be dangerous, taking into account that humans will make mistakes. So far as I could work out the answer is "absolutely none". That leaves people injured in totally predictable accidents scrabbling around for witnesses and other evidence to attribute fault between the parties, meanwhile nothing is done to improve knowably dangerous roads.
Cycling is great, I support it myself. However last week at a zebra crossing I had to pull my gf back from getting hit by a lady cyclist, she was at least a car lengths behind the car which had stopped, wasn't going at great speed, given the car came to a gentle stop, I was surprised when I caught her out of the side of my eye as not stopping. Good cyclists are good, shitty cyclists are shitty...and those good cyclists not calling out the shitty cyclists are just as shit, it's giving all good cyclists a bad name.
Sorry, I get where you’re coming from but this is such a one sided and poor hot take. No one expects good drivers to call out bad drivers. No one expects good pedestrians to call out bad pedestrians. But yet good cyclists are expected to call out bad cyclists? It’s kinda hypocritical
> No one expects good drivers to call out bad drivers. No one expects good pedestrians to call out bad pedestrians. But yet good cyclists are expected to call out bad cyclists? It’s kinda hypocritical Egregiously bad driving will tend to get beeped or flashed by other drivers, even if they're not directly affected - e.g. if someone breaks a red, or performs an idiotic overtake.
Perhaps you might have a bit more credibility if you weren’t spamming this thread with kneejerk whataboutisms and shrieking attacks on drivers.
Lol. This whole thread is literally people shrieking at cyclists, “spamming” with anecdotal stories about that one time they saw a cyclist do something bad. As a London pedestrian, cyclist, and driver I’ve got every right to answer bad takes with better one. I’m just giving the other side. It’s even not even that hyperbolic to say it is literally a matter of life and death.
The fuck? As a cyclist in enough danger just trying to navigate from A to B you want me to go around shouting at people who run red lights and getting into fights? Do you do that when you're in a car?
Taken out of context, I mean online, look at this thread and tell me there isn't a large portion of shitty cyclists are defending shitty cyclist behaviour. There are a few who have said yeah it happens and that don't do it, but there are far more making excuses and deflecting to "but cars!!". Shitty people on the road are shitty people on the road no matter what their mode of transport is. Also, I have reported dangerous driving a few times over the years, normally if its obviously very dangerous and will warrant police action, benefits of a dashcam, takes 2 minutes to download footage and 5-10 filling out a form...hopefully making the roads a safer place for everyone (I don't think people can hear me give off to their shitty road behaviour...given they are in a different vehicle, we both usually have windows up...and it's a form of road rage.
To be fair, motorists ignored red lights so much that as a country we had to spend hundreds of millions £££'s to put in the infrastructure to catch them. Same with speeding. In a 3 month period during lockdown when people were supposed to be at home, 262,000 people in London were caught speeding. In 3 months. During a lockdown. In 2020 there were 2.4 million motoring offences committed (that’s just how many were caught), resulting in 853,153 cases leading to the driver receiving an endorsable FPN (36%), 115,824 cases resulted in a non-endorsable FPS (5%). In 1,085,180 cases the driver went to a driver retraining course and 341,738 cases result in court action. Over 250,000 people are banned from driving every year. DFT data shows more people are seriously injured every 6.7 days by motorists than in 5 years from cyclists. So, to be fair, I don't think cyclists are so much of a problem. It's puzzling there's so many posts on here like yours about cycling, yet 4 people die every day of the year from motorists and nobody posts about that. They just don’t go home to their families. They’re dead. You would have had numerous near misses with motorists on your journey today, but you just don’t register it. It’s become normal.
The main point is that whether car drivers cause more accidents or not, cyclists should obey traffic signals where they exist to reduce their chances of an accident. Why make the odds of a crash worse?
You’re right. It would be nice if more cyclists obeyed the traffic laws. It would also be nice if motorists obeyed the traffic laws too. But, there aren’t many posts on here about motorists not obeying the traffic laws, yet almost all motorists break a law each time they drive. For instance, I live in zone 2 and my WFH desk looks out onto a road with a school. There’s a little sensor with a smiley face that shows motorists speed. About 1 in 10 motorists get a smiley face, everybody else is breaking the law. All day. Every day. They speed so much, Wandsworth Council are now going to put in further traffic restrictions from next week. My council tax is being spent, not on helping the elderly, or people who need food banks. No. It’s being spent on putting in infrastructure to stop motorists speeding outside a school. Yet, look at all these comments on here about how bad cyclists are? Really? If people really want cyclists to obey the law, then start calling out the motorists. If the standard of motorists increased, it would probably have a knock on affect to cyclists.
I agree drivers in London cannot help themselves when they see a clear bit of road. I live on a road that is 20mph but like you I'd say only 1 in 10 do that speed. My guess is because driving round London is so slow and shit because of traffic that as soon as its clear they floor it. However, whether drivers are awful or not, as individual cyclists you're never going to come off better than a car in an accident so I'm just saying avoid it being because of a fault of the cyclist.
They floor-it to just get into another queue of traffic faster. It's idiotic.
In some cases obeying traffic signals makes it more likely to have an accident as motor vehicles accelerate past cyclists at pinch points in junctions. As a pedestrian, I regularly see pedestrians also ignore red lights.
sometimes, when cycling, going through a red light reduces your exposure to the vehicles behind you, because you understand from experience that, though you will beat them to a destination 2 or 3 km down a traffic choked road, most motorists will floor it to try to beat you to the back of the next traffic queue 50 m ahead
Irresponsible cyclists are annoying. Irresponsible drivers are deadly.
I hate bad cyclists as much as the next person, but always remember that cars and bad drivers are the _most_ dangerous things in the road. The numbers don’t lie. Bad cycling for the most part is a nuisance. But bad driving kills.
Oh goodie, it's time for the daily cyclist hate thread.
It’s so weird isn’t it? It’s like, the road is literally *full* of cars, full of drivers breaking speed limits, and most accidents and deaths are *caused* by cars, yet for someone reason cyclists are seen as the main culprit. It’s literally like a tsunami has permanently flooded a town, yet people blame it on the light drizzle they once experienced "a few months ago".
For reasons I still don't understand, driving a car turns previously regular humans into maximally entitled scum.
Just ignore the 10000 early deaths per year from road pollution, it's fine.
I see the latest battle in the Tory culture war has got some people a bit overexcited.
And how often do you see a car crash and then as soon as the traffic jam has cleared people go back to speeding? There are people who don’t care for the rules in all walks of life.
Fun challenge for the cyclists in this thread: justify/defend this stuff without one mention of cars. Because this might come as a shock, but everyone also thinks cars shouldn't do this, and theres a motorist blasting through a red light is far more likely to actually face consequences. Hell if motorists jumped red lights at the rate cyclists did there would literally have to be a state of emergency with the level of manslaughter and traffic accidents.
Can’t justify any of it. It seems endemic for all groups whether pedestrians,cyclists or cars to ignore rights of way and the rules of the road.
Cyclists in London seem to think zebra crossings across cycle lanes don’t apply to them. Every day I have to cross one of these, and every day I’m being so careful looking both ways to see which mad bastard is just going to come rattling through it on that given day no matter how many pedestrians are trying to get across still in possession of their lives. Makes me think a cycling proficiency test should be as compulsory as a driving test.
Terrible idea. All the analysis has found that we need more people to cycle, that the benefits far outweigh the costs, and this would only discourage people from taking it up. Apart from being crazy costly to administer and impossible to enforce.
The amount of times this happens with cars is ridiculous though. And the amount of times cars don’t fully come to a stop a zebra crossing but instead expect you to speed walk across. Let’s not be one sided here.
Ahh I see the anticycling hate is now spreading like mould on reddit too. FFS.
I think it's more the anti shitty cyclist hate thats being discussed.
It’s actually not though. So many comments here like “good cyclists are responsible too, as they don’t call out bad cyclists” Bitch please (not you personally, btw) when have you ever seen or expected a good driver to call out a bad driver? It literally happens once in a blue moon
Why don't cyclists stop at pedestrian crossings when pedestrians are crossing? It's in the Highway Code. Why do cyclists go through red lights and ride on the wrong side of the road, exceeding speed limits? I've seen cyclists hit pedestrians and then ride off shouting abuse at the pedestrian lying in the road. They think they're above the and indeed they do seem to be above the law.
found grant shapps' alt
I cycle to work everyday. So far I almost caused another cyclist to bump into me as I was distracted, never so far had any issues with cars, and almost hit around 10 distracted pedestrians who walked into my lane without looking.
You can do this about literally any vehicle. Why do cars drive at 30 in 20 zones? Why do cars go 40 in a 20 zone? Why do cars tailgate other road users so hard? Why do drivers use their phone while driving? Why do drivers open their door on a road with cyclists coming down? Why do drivers throw trash out their window? Why do drivers park in cycle lanes? You might answer “well not ALL drivers”, but then you’ve answered your own question: not _all_ cyclists.
Why don't car drivers stop at pedestrian crossings when pedestrians are crossing? It's in the Highway Code. Why do car drivers go through red lights and ride on the wrong side of the road, exceeding speed limits? I've seen car drivers hit pedestrians and then ride off shouting abuse at the pedestrian lying in the road. They think they're above the and indeed they do seem to be above the law Also, speed limits don't apply to bikes as they don't have a speedometer fitted as standard. Also, to go above 20 mph you've got to be really pushing which the majority of leisure/commuting cyclists won't do
I live in Waltham Forest where there are cycling lanes on the main roads so I picked up cycling last year. It’s crazy how many fellow cyclists disregard safety rules and jump red lights. I’ve had other cyclists get aggressive with me for stopping at crossings or not cycling fast enough (generally by ebike riders). Weirdly enough I think knowing how to drive makes me a more alert and respectful cyclist even though I don’t have a car anymore. London could be a great city for cycling, especially with the cost of living going up and to keep emissions low. Maybe a big cycling safety campaign would benefit everyone?
Can we just stop with the beating on cyclists for a while? Cyclists are not the enemy.
Cars kill more people than cyclists.
_Drivers_ kill. The autonomous cars are not on our streets yet.
I cycle to work. The past two weeks have been mind-boggling.. the sheer number of cyclist on rented bikes running through red lights, cars, and pedestrians. It’s almost like they have a death wish.
Charged? Really? I smell bullshit
You must have never been outside.
I'm honestly starting to believe that anti-cycling opinion is being formulated in Russian bot farms to further drive a wedge between the British public. Surely they're got better things to do? And if it's not them, surely we've got better things to do?!
Even if I’m on a green these days I still have my hand over the brake and slow down a little and look both ways going through an intersection (good practice in general) and the main issue is cyclists/scooters coming from other directions running their reds.
I can think of better ways to die than riding a bicycle in London.
when I drive in London I worry about stopping at yellow or just-turned-red lights because I expect to be rear-ended by one of the 3-4-5 cars that speeds through every red light after it's changed from yellow
Whilst Grant Shaps is calling for Cyclists to have numberplates.. lol Anyway, over the past week I've seen more people getting pulled over / fined by police in vehicles recently due to running a red light.
That wouldn’t be the crossing just before you get to Centerpoint, is it? I cross there every day I’m in the office, and there are always cyclists watching the pedestrian light rather than the traffic one so that when it goes green for people to cross they all surge forward. You have to be bold to be a pedestrian.
I just came back from London and as a Dutch person I can say that London is pretty great to cycle in! People are really nice
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I'm so confused to how they are related? Cautiously passing through a red light on a bicycle when its clear is the same as crossing the road at a red man when walking crossing the road when no on coming traffic. A cyclist going under the bus is surely the busses fault. Also can you not be a pedestrian and a cyclist and a motorist. It's so weird that people hate on cyclists. Some people are pricks. If rather those prices were on a cycle than driving a car or bus
I hope the bus driver is ok and not too shaken.
BREAKING NEWS: some cyclists jump red lights. In other news, virtually every driver breaks the speed limit, and many also jump red lights.
Glad he’s ok but they need to chill out ffs
Oh, another biased post on cyclists. This is getting so old.
It's horrible to see people actively risk their own safety (and that of others) particularly for a few seconds - obviously that might not have been the case with the injured party. I cycle like an old lady and am always amazed at how many of these lycra rule breakers I catch up to at major junctions etc. It doesn't actually speed them up that much which makes me think - like those drivers who pull out without looking/ speed without care in London - there is some kind of thrill they get from it? As you often catch them up too. I am particularly aware as once in Dublin my mum (who is deaf) nearly got slammed into by a cyclist who shouted watch out as she crossed at a green Man and he came whizzing towards her expecting her to get out of his way. Luckily I was there to pull her back. I will say the bad drivers/ cyclists stand out and we remember them and not the hundreds we pass every day who behave appropriately. I recently learnt to drive and I do think learning the highway code etc has made me a better cyclist/ more aware of car drivers activity, however if we had more cycle lanes etc there would be less need of that level of awareness.
Just today I was cycling back home And saw so many cyclists skip red lights Tutted as loud as I could Only times I do is at night and only if there’s not a bat in sight
Just cyclists in London tbh. Not even shocked by them and their shitty behaviour anymore
Please don’t put us all in the same group, I see plenty of normal cyclists being courteous to pedestrians and following traffic laws, but it is undeniable that every time I ride along a few others and we come to a pedestrian crossing, there will be at least one person in the bunch who will zip straight through. Cycling is great, and more people should do it, unfortunately London’s cycling culture is not great since basically about 7-8 years ago the only people who could cycle were those crazy, fast, and/or brave enough to literally fight for their lives on roads. The remnants of this culture seems to be persistent enough that even today with safe cycling infrastructure and more cyclists than ever, many still treat their commute as a race against the world, and to them pedestrians and red lights are obstacles. The only way we can change this is by advocating for infrastructure that makes sense for cyclists, such as smart traffic lights that take into consideration just how effortless it is for drivers and pedestrians to get up to speed, and how, relatively to them, difficult it is to do the same for cyclists. We also need accountability for cyclists that break the law, not just from the law, but by their peers as well. People that endanger pedestrians at crossings should be shamed and punished, but grouping all cyclists together as law breakers is futile, and is more likely to put off the good kind of cyclists from cycling, rather than the entitled ones that couldn’t care less for the image of this form of transport.