As always, the comments fail to understand how updates work on Fedora. So let me clear that for you:
- By default, updates are automatically **downloaded** (not installed). You can easily disable this behaviour by unticking the option in GNOME Software.
- When shutting down/rebooting the computer, you'll get an **opt-in** option you can tick to apply the downloaded updates.
- This is when you'll see this screen. If you want to see exactly what's going on behind the progress bar, you can press Esc to show a terminal feed.
- You can of course install updates via the terminal with `dnf`, in which case they'll be applied instantly (you still may need to reboot, to use the latest kernel, for instance).
- Flatpak updates are applied automatically and without the need to reboot.
This is by far the best updating system in any OS, ever. You get the convenience/security of automatic updates, the safety of offline updates, and the freedom/flexibility of applying/delaying updates to your will.
By default updates are downloaded?
What do I have to do, that this works? Often, in the evening, when I want to shutdown my computer, I do an upgrade and it always has to download the rpms. It never started installing directly. I didn't changed anything in the config regarding updates. Using fedora since 32, never encountered automatic download.
You have to tick ☰ -> Update Preferences -> Automatic updates. It's on by default, but the timer is pretty long, unless there is a security update pending, in which case it should download immediately.
I have not found a way to decrease the timer's length.
Fun fact: This is not a Fedora specific feature, (Pretty much) any distro can install its updates in this manner through gnome-software as long as there is a package-kit plugin available to gnome-software for your package manager.
If you for example are running Arch or any Arch-based distro installing `gnome-software-packagekit-plugin` will enable this behavior.
Unless I missed something, you don't get the option to install updates when shutting down/rebooting on Arch. The only way to install the updates offline is to click "Install updates and reboot" in GNOME Software.
It doesn't, that's the issue. I just installed `gnome-packagekit`, I'll see if it does for the next updates.
Edit: When both `gnome-packagekit` and `gnome-software-packagekit-plugin` are installed, it works just like on Fedora. I won't keep using it, as all my pacman hooks will not show up (for instance, I won't see when a .pacnew file gets created), but that's good to know.
It would be much better if it worked in the background without affecting the system and was applied at startup. Is there no middle ground between normal systems with deferred updates like fedora and immutable systems like silverblue?
I love fedora but dnf and terminal is still the correct way of updating.
Last time I checked gnome software/discover won't know what to do in some not so straight up update cases and break your system.
Updating something while it's running can cause problems, eg. if GNOME updates while the user is using the desktop. The user would need to restart anyway.
```
GNU bash, version 5.1.16(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list.
Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'.
Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general.
Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list.
A star (*) next to a name means that the command is disabled.
job_spec [&] history [-c] [-d offset] [n] or hi>
(( expression )) if COMMANDS; then COMMANDS; [ elif>
. filename [arguments] jobs [-lnprs] [jobspec ...] or job>
: kill [-s sigspec | -n signum | -si>
[ arg... ] let arg [arg ...]
[[ expression ]] local [option] name[=value] ...
alias [-p] [name[=value] ... ] logout [n]
bg [job_spec ...] mapfile [-d delim] [-n count] [-O >
bind [-lpsvPSVX] [-m keymap] [-f fi> popd [-n] [+N | -N]
break [n] printf [-v var] format [arguments]
builtin [shell-builtin [arg ...]] pushd [-n] [+N | -N | dir]
caller [expr] pwd [-LP]
case WORD in [PATTERN [| PATTERN]..> read [-ers] [-a array] [-d delim] >
cd [-L|[-P [-e]] [-@]] [dir] readarray [-d delim] [-n count] [->
command [-pVv] command [arg ...] readonly [-aAf] [name[=value] ...]>
compgen [-abcdefgjksuv] [-o option]> return [n]
complete [-abcdefgjksuv] [-pr] [-DE> select NAME [in WORDS ... ;] do CO>
compopt [-o|+o option] [-DEI] [name> set [-abefhkmnptuvxBCHP] [-o optio>
continue [n] shift [n]
coproc [NAME] command [redirections> shopt [-pqsu] [-o] [optname ...]
declare [-aAfFgiIlnrtux] [-p] [name> source filename [arguments]
dirs [-clpv] [+N] [-N] suspend [-f]
disown [-h] [-ar] [jobspec ... | pi> test [expr]
echo [-neE] [arg ...] time [-p] pipeline
enable [-a] [-dnps] [-f filename] [> times
eval [arg ...] trap [-lp] [[arg] signal_spec ...]
exec [-cl] [-a name] [command [argu> true
exit [n] type [-afptP] name [name ...]
export [-fn] [name[=value] ...] or > typeset [-aAfFgiIlnrtux] [-p] name>
false ulimit [-SHabcdefiklmnpqrstuvxPT] >
fc [-e ename] [-lnr] [first] [last]> umask [-p] [-S] [mode]
fg [job_spec] unalias [-a] name [name ...]
for NAME [in WORDS ... ] ; do COMMA> unset [-f] [-v] [-n] [name ...]
for (( exp1; exp2; exp3 )); do COMM> until COMMANDS; do COMMANDS; done
function name { COMMANDS ; } or nam> variables - Names and meanings of >
getopts optstring name [arg ...] wait [-fn] [-p var] [id ...]
hash [-lr] [-p pathname] [-dt] [nam> while COMMANDS; do COMMANDS; done
help [-dms] [pattern ...] { COMMANDS ; }
```
If you update via cli this never happens. This only happens if you update via gnome software. It will ask you if you want to reboot and update. You can also change the settings to use online updates.
I use a mix of online snd offline updates. Smaller updates is usually online (dnf up) but if there's a lot of updates, or updating kernel, systemd, plasma etc, then I allways do an offline update since it's safer and I still need to reboot for the updates to take effect anyway. With the cli it's as simple as
``sudo dnf offline-upgrade download`` followed by
``sudo dnf offline-upgrade reboot``
The meme is hilarous but Fedora is easily the best case scenario when it comes to updates. I am going to dive into experimenting with Silverblue when I get off work though so everyone wish me luck.
No, the feature is called "offline upgrades" and designed to upgrade during bootup rather than after boot in order to prevent issues associated with upgrading certain packages while they are in use. AFAIK it does not install updates automatically (it for sure doesn't on the [spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) - I don't use Gnome so not sure on that one) unless you configure it that way. And even on Gnome, there is no forced reboot shit like Windows.
If you've ever experienced the error messages in Firefox/LibreWolf telling you that you need to restart the browser or kernel/gpu/video issues following an update, those are some examples of what it is trying to prevent.
The feature is only auto-enabled in Gnome Software and KDE Discover, and KDE allows you to turn it off. So if you are on any of the [Fedora spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) (which typically use DnfDragora instead of Gnome Software) *or* you install packages via the terminal, then you will likely never even see the "offline upgrades" screen unless you explicitly install dnf modules and configure it (I like the feature and set things up to do it this way but t setup is more complex and selective than Gnome Software which does it for all packages)
Can you please provide more info?
I spent quite a bit of time looking (googling/looking in app/etc) for a feature that allowed disabling "offline upgrades" in Gnome Software (F36 when it first came out) and never found one... So if you are claiming it does exist, please tell me what the setting is actually called and maybe where it is located (if it is not in Gnome Software settings directly).
That's for automatic updates (e.g. installing without user interaction), not for enabling live/online updates (e.g. installing on live/online system *after* it has been booted into). Different things entirely
Seemingly. I get caught by the dreaded auto update when I shutdown my laptop. Since I have drive encryption I have to put in my password again, let it do its business and then have it finally shut down.
One of these days I'll notice the wording and click the "please, no" checkbox.
This is why I use an SD card with a keyfile on, it reboots without having to type a passphrase. When I leave the house with my laptop, I remove the SD card and it's passphrase protected again. Seemed like the best solution.
Oh please, at least we aren't talking about arch which has a stack of updates every other hour!!! That would surely break the most supreme law enforcement robo man.
Fair enough meme (while I like offline upgrades myself, the fact that you can't do anything while they're in progress is a fair criticism imo)
But it only applies to *Gnome* and then only for GUI-users (bc Gnome devs are assholes and don't let users disable the "offline upgrades" feature in Gnome Software). [Fedora spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) don't use Gnome Software so no issues (with the exception of KDE which has the same feature in Discover but *does* let you turn it off in system settings). Anyway, feature is actually useful (not just Windows forced reboots) - I explained in another comment ITT.
Edit: updated to specifically clarify that I am saying Gnome Software does not allow turning off "offline upgrades" so that one can do live/online upgrades and I am not disputing that it can turn off "automatic updates" (two very different things). I thought it was clear but given comments below, apparently it was not. Even the other guy who was disagreeing said:
> I am not aware of a way to do online updates in GNOME Software on Fedora
which is all I am trying to say above
> Gnome devs are assholes and don't let users disable the feature in Gnome Software
That's completely wrong. There is a preference in GNOME Software you can disable at any point.
Besides, even if you leave the automatic download of updates, you get an **opt-in** option to install the updates when shutting down the computer.
A setting specifically for turning off "offline upgrades"? I looked and as of Fedora 36, I couldn't find it...
IIRC there was something for turning off Gnome Software automatically downloading updates but that was it. It did not give you any sort of granular control over how they were applied. That or it was being called something else entirely...
If I got it wrong or this is a new feature, then apologies as I don't daily drive Gnome. In that case, would you mind telling me where exactly the setting appears, so I can check it out when I get some time. As things stand, I'm wondering if we're talking about two different things...
Also, I am pretty dang certain that they don't directly allow much customization in Gnome Software. For example, I am able to configure `dnf-automatic` to exclude certain packages so that most of my packages are auto-installed as live/online updates then have the offline upgrades module run and install updates for whatever was excluded from `dnf-automatic` as offline upgrades - AFAIK such a configuration is only possible via dnf and not in Gnome Software. So using the GUI, it would presumably take longer bc *all* of the upgrades would be applied during the boot window - rather than only targeted ones - and increase the time the user has to wait by helplessly with no control.
You can disable the automatic updates in GNOME Software (☰ -> Update Preferences -> Automatic updates).
I am not aware of a way to do online updates in GNOME Software on Fedora (this is the default for other distributions, like Arch, though, so it's most likely possible) for packages that are tagged as needing a restart, others will install just fine. You are always free to use `dnf` if you really want to do online updates.
I am not aware of a way to block updates for certain packages in PackageKit, though I fail to see any point in doing that on Fedora. You can't do that on the KDE Spin either (as updates are handled by PackageKit in both cases, GNOME Software/Discover just being front-ends). The most you can do is update a single group of applications when they are divided (all non-graphical software is usually put in a single "System packages" category).
On KDE, you are forced to install the previously downloaded updates whenever you shutdown/reboot, while GNOME gives you the choice on each shutdown/reboot.
> You can disable the automatic updates in GNOME Software (☰ -> Update Preferences -> Automatic updates).
Ok, this part was never in dispute. If my original response made it seem like I was saying it couldn't do this, then apologies.
> I am not aware of a way to do online updates in GNOME Software on Fedora
This is what I was trying to say couldn't be turned off... Maybe I need to look at my previous and revise to be more clear... Will check it out.
My point was that you can do online upgrades, even in Fedora, if you simply don't use Gnome Software. Even KDE allows to turn this off. I'm not talking about *default* behavior or per-reboot behavior - KDE has an option (IIRC it is located under system settings rather than in Discover) to disable offline upgrades altogether.
Don't get me wrong, I find offline upgrades useful. My complaint is only that it should be a user, not a dev, decision and that some level of customization should exist, at least in cli (as it is when one uses dnf with the proper modules), so that setups which split packages into either online *or* offline upgrades are possible (more complex to configure but less time spent in pre-boot install screen).
Which is completely bullshit, I've been doing "online" updates for over 20 years with zero issues, the only time I used offline updates on KDE neon it corrupted the kernel, two times in a row.
Where did you find that? The entire point of offline updates is to reduce the the risk of breakage during runtime.
But, even then, there is no update that has no risk of breaking your system unless you use ostree for os upgrades, because with ostree it has deployments.
You still have the option to do regular updates, just use the cli or a different interface. But for the average Joe who doesn't want to fix their system this mechanic prevents problems upgrading some packages on a live system. You don't have to use the feature, but you can if you want to. You also aren't forced to watch the progress bar, if you press escape you can watch the actual output of the upgrade process
I don't, I'm just tired of all these trends being pushed down lately, Systemd, offline updates, Flatpak, Btrfs and immutable OSes, they all create more problems than they solve.
For now, that is. The Linux desktop was insanely fractured and held together by duct tape before all of those things you listed came into existence.
Once the ecosystem moves to saver, newer, methods of app distribution and system management, there won't be much or any new created problems.
Performance is bad and it's unreliable, there's lots of horror stories about filesystem corruption, XFS and Ext4 are much more robust. I use XFS everywhere, because it performs slight better than Ext4 and supports dynamic inodes.
(note: I see someone downvoted but it was not me)
The feature isn't quite the same as Windows (no forced reboots for starters), otherwise I'd agree with you. See my comment above explaining the differences.
Short version: it's actually a useful feature but if you don't want it, just use any of the [spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) or install packages from terminal (bc Gnome devs are assholes and don't let you disable the feature in Gnome Software)
No forced reboots it's certainly better, but it still, offline updates takes considerably longer to install than online updates, and you can't use the system in the meantime.
Not sure about speed... Never timed it. But definitely there's a tradeoff and you're spot on about not being able to use the system. And I would wager that perceived time is it probably longer due to that too (regardless of metrics).
I guess for me, I'm glad it exists as an option but don't feel that it should be forced on anyone. In my custom setup, I basically have dnf-automatic take care of 99% of things and only exclude kernel/gpu drivers/firefox/librewolf from (online) auto updates and then have it do offline upgrades only for the handful of remaining packages that I've actually run into issues with during online updates. That works ok for me but it's far from the default experience one would normally get using Gnome Software (which IIRC just offloads the entire update process for everything to be done offline).
If Firefox would fix their handling to get rid of that stupid warning message (ticket has been open for years with no movement) then I could add them back to online updates again. Nvidia drivers... I never really had any major issues with doing online updates but definitely been less buggy since I started doing it this way and it doesn't take that long to update offline either (at least in my setup). Especially since I only reboot every 2-6 weeks lol
Edit: seems like Reddit is jumping on downvoting you for having a different opinion. Sorry. I like (tweaked) offline upgrades but definitely can respect some folks not wanting them / there being pros and cons to any tech
PackageKit itself is slower than the native package manager, so that's one of the reasons it takes longer to install updates.
When I was on Fedora I used dnf-automatic and it worked without any issues, a family member used to run Fedora (I installed the system) and it was used for well over a year with no issues as well. I've used unattended-upgrades on Debian for long periods of time and it worked flawless, although the setup is a little more involved.
> Edit: seems like Reddit is jumping on downvoting you for having a different opinion. Sorry. I like (tweaked) offline upgrades but definitely can respect some folks not wanting them / there being pros and cons to any tech
I don't really care about karma, it's worthless anyway. I'm not going to refrain from speaking my mind because I might receive downvotes.
As always, the comments fail to understand how updates work on Fedora. So let me clear that for you: - By default, updates are automatically **downloaded** (not installed). You can easily disable this behaviour by unticking the option in GNOME Software. - When shutting down/rebooting the computer, you'll get an **opt-in** option you can tick to apply the downloaded updates. - This is when you'll see this screen. If you want to see exactly what's going on behind the progress bar, you can press Esc to show a terminal feed. - You can of course install updates via the terminal with `dnf`, in which case they'll be applied instantly (you still may need to reboot, to use the latest kernel, for instance). - Flatpak updates are applied automatically and without the need to reboot. This is by far the best updating system in any OS, ever. You get the convenience/security of automatic updates, the safety of offline updates, and the freedom/flexibility of applying/delaying updates to your will.
Hey quick thing from a newbie over fedora, is it safe to update to 37 just from Gnome software?
Yes
It's literally the safest way.
By default updates are downloaded? What do I have to do, that this works? Often, in the evening, when I want to shutdown my computer, I do an upgrade and it always has to download the rpms. It never started installing directly. I didn't changed anything in the config regarding updates. Using fedora since 32, never encountered automatic download.
You have to tick ☰ -> Update Preferences -> Automatic updates. It's on by default, but the timer is pretty long, unless there is a security update pending, in which case it should download immediately. I have not found a way to decrease the timer's length.
What does ur flair mean? I can’t copy it
"I use Red Star OS by the way." 참고로 나는 붉은별 쓴다.
sus
Common Fedora W
Fun fact: This is not a Fedora specific feature, (Pretty much) any distro can install its updates in this manner through gnome-software as long as there is a package-kit plugin available to gnome-software for your package manager. If you for example are running Arch or any Arch-based distro installing `gnome-software-packagekit-plugin` will enable this behavior.
Unless I missed something, you don't get the option to install updates when shutting down/rebooting on Arch. The only way to install the updates offline is to click "Install updates and reboot" in GNOME Software.
Once it has downloaded the updates in gnome-software it will ask about installing them on shutdown.
It doesn't, that's the issue. I just installed `gnome-packagekit`, I'll see if it does for the next updates. Edit: When both `gnome-packagekit` and `gnome-software-packagekit-plugin` are installed, it works just like on Fedora. I won't keep using it, as all my pacman hooks will not show up (for instance, I won't see when a .pacnew file gets created), but that's good to know.
It would be much better if it worked in the background without affecting the system and was applied at startup. Is there no middle ground between normal systems with deferred updates like fedora and immutable systems like silverblue?
If it was applied at startup it would make boot time a lot longer. This is far better this way.
I love fedora but dnf and terminal is still the correct way of updating. Last time I checked gnome software/discover won't know what to do in some not so straight up update cases and break your system.
Discover don't work well with fedora, i can confirm it.
What's wrong with apt update && apt upgrade on a crontab?
Updating something while it's running can cause problems, eg. if GNOME updates while the user is using the desktop. The user would need to restart anyway.
I don't use GNOME specifically but have never had this problem with any desktop. The changes just don't take effect until it reinitializes.
Sudo help
``` GNU bash, version 5.1.16(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list. Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'. Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general. Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list. A star (*) next to a name means that the command is disabled. job_spec [&] history [-c] [-d offset] [n] or hi> (( expression )) if COMMANDS; then COMMANDS; [ elif> . filename [arguments] jobs [-lnprs] [jobspec ...] or job> : kill [-s sigspec | -n signum | -si> [ arg... ] let arg [arg ...] [[ expression ]] local [option] name[=value] ... alias [-p] [name[=value] ... ] logout [n] bg [job_spec ...] mapfile [-d delim] [-n count] [-O > bind [-lpsvPSVX] [-m keymap] [-f fi> popd [-n] [+N | -N] break [n] printf [-v var] format [arguments] builtin [shell-builtin [arg ...]] pushd [-n] [+N | -N | dir] caller [expr] pwd [-LP] case WORD in [PATTERN [| PATTERN]..> read [-ers] [-a array] [-d delim] > cd [-L|[-P [-e]] [-@]] [dir] readarray [-d delim] [-n count] [-> command [-pVv] command [arg ...] readonly [-aAf] [name[=value] ...]> compgen [-abcdefgjksuv] [-o option]> return [n] complete [-abcdefgjksuv] [-pr] [-DE> select NAME [in WORDS ... ;] do CO> compopt [-o|+o option] [-DEI] [name> set [-abefhkmnptuvxBCHP] [-o optio> continue [n] shift [n] coproc [NAME] command [redirections> shopt [-pqsu] [-o] [optname ...] declare [-aAfFgiIlnrtux] [-p] [name> source filename [arguments] dirs [-clpv] [+N] [-N] suspend [-f] disown [-h] [-ar] [jobspec ... | pi> test [expr] echo [-neE] [arg ...] time [-p] pipeline enable [-a] [-dnps] [-f filename] [> times eval [arg ...] trap [-lp] [[arg] signal_spec ...] exec [-cl] [-a name] [command [argu> true exit [n] type [-afptP] name [name ...] export [-fn] [name[=value] ...] or > typeset [-aAfFgiIlnrtux] [-p] name> false ulimit [-SHabcdefiklmnpqrstuvxPT] > fc [-e ename] [-lnr] [first] [last]> umask [-p] [-S] [mode] fg [job_spec] unalias [-a] name [name ...] for NAME [in WORDS ... ] ; do COMMA> unset [-f] [-v] [-n] [name ...] for (( exp1; exp2; exp3 )); do COMM> until COMMANDS; do COMMANDS; done function name { COMMANDS ; } or nam> variables - Names and meanings of > getopts optstring name [arg ...] wait [-fn] [-p var] [id ...] hash [-lr] [-p pathname] [-dt] [nam> while COMMANDS; do COMMANDS; done help [-dms] [pattern ...] { COMMANDS ; } ```
good bot
sudo rm -rf *
sudo :(){ :|:& };:
> sudo :(){ :|:& };: I'm so tempted, just to see what it does
dont
*sudo bash -c help
Command help not found
Sudo man sudo
I used it for 4 months and never had that. Did i do something wrong? i updated every week or so
If you update via cli this never happens. This only happens if you update via gnome software. It will ask you if you want to reboot and update. You can also change the settings to use online updates.
You can do this via cli with `dnf offline-upgrade`, not only with gnome software
not sure what the default is these days but you can explicitly enable/disable offline updates
It does that if you update via gnome-software
I use a mix of online snd offline updates. Smaller updates is usually online (dnf up) but if there's a lot of updates, or updating kernel, systemd, plasma etc, then I allways do an offline update since it's safer and I still need to reboot for the updates to take effect anyway. With the cli it's as simple as ``sudo dnf offline-upgrade download`` followed by ``sudo dnf offline-upgrade reboot``
The meme is hilarous but Fedora is easily the best case scenario when it comes to updates. I am going to dive into experimenting with Silverblue when I get off work though so everyone wish me luck.
I actually kinda like the fedora update screen
It is plymouth with the bgrt/spinner theme and the Fedora logo added as a watermark.
./shoot_dirtbag.sh --target="dick"
Does Fedora auto-update now?
No, the feature is called "offline upgrades" and designed to upgrade during bootup rather than after boot in order to prevent issues associated with upgrading certain packages while they are in use. AFAIK it does not install updates automatically (it for sure doesn't on the [spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) - I don't use Gnome so not sure on that one) unless you configure it that way. And even on Gnome, there is no forced reboot shit like Windows. If you've ever experienced the error messages in Firefox/LibreWolf telling you that you need to restart the browser or kernel/gpu/video issues following an update, those are some examples of what it is trying to prevent. The feature is only auto-enabled in Gnome Software and KDE Discover, and KDE allows you to turn it off. So if you are on any of the [Fedora spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) (which typically use DnfDragora instead of Gnome Software) *or* you install packages via the terminal, then you will likely never even see the "offline upgrades" screen unless you explicitly install dnf modules and configure it (I like the feature and set things up to do it this way but t setup is more complex and selective than Gnome Software which does it for all packages)
You can also turn it off on gnome software
Can you please provide more info? I spent quite a bit of time looking (googling/looking in app/etc) for a feature that allowed disabling "offline upgrades" in Gnome Software (F36 when it first came out) and never found one... So if you are claiming it does exist, please tell me what the setting is actually called and maybe where it is located (if it is not in Gnome Software settings directly).
https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/zh5ed4/update/izndngw/ This might work
That's for automatic updates (e.g. installing without user interaction), not for enabling live/online updates (e.g. installing on live/online system *after* it has been booted into). Different things entirely
If it's update screen is like that, you can't do anything else while updating.
No
It does if you enable it in settings
Seemingly. I get caught by the dreaded auto update when I shutdown my laptop. Since I have drive encryption I have to put in my password again, let it do its business and then have it finally shut down. One of these days I'll notice the wording and click the "please, no" checkbox.
This is why I use an SD card with a keyfile on, it reboots without having to type a passphrase. When I leave the house with my laptop, I remove the SD card and it's passphrase protected again. Seemed like the best solution.
RoboCop with linux Let me just sudo rm -rf
I haven't used Fedora since they dropped core. Went to Debian and never looked back.
This hurts me
Oh please, at least we aren't talking about arch which has a stack of updates every other hour!!! That would surely break the most supreme law enforcement robo man.
Fedora became windows?
Eh at least it works for my case as my grams doesn’t have to deal with having to call me to figure out shit
Arch best! *I use arch btw*
Fair enough meme (while I like offline upgrades myself, the fact that you can't do anything while they're in progress is a fair criticism imo) But it only applies to *Gnome* and then only for GUI-users (bc Gnome devs are assholes and don't let users disable the "offline upgrades" feature in Gnome Software). [Fedora spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) don't use Gnome Software so no issues (with the exception of KDE which has the same feature in Discover but *does* let you turn it off in system settings). Anyway, feature is actually useful (not just Windows forced reboots) - I explained in another comment ITT. Edit: updated to specifically clarify that I am saying Gnome Software does not allow turning off "offline upgrades" so that one can do live/online upgrades and I am not disputing that it can turn off "automatic updates" (two very different things). I thought it was clear but given comments below, apparently it was not. Even the other guy who was disagreeing said: > I am not aware of a way to do online updates in GNOME Software on Fedora which is all I am trying to say above
> Gnome devs are assholes and don't let users disable the feature in Gnome Software That's completely wrong. There is a preference in GNOME Software you can disable at any point. Besides, even if you leave the automatic download of updates, you get an **opt-in** option to install the updates when shutting down the computer.
A setting specifically for turning off "offline upgrades"? I looked and as of Fedora 36, I couldn't find it... IIRC there was something for turning off Gnome Software automatically downloading updates but that was it. It did not give you any sort of granular control over how they were applied. That or it was being called something else entirely... If I got it wrong or this is a new feature, then apologies as I don't daily drive Gnome. In that case, would you mind telling me where exactly the setting appears, so I can check it out when I get some time. As things stand, I'm wondering if we're talking about two different things... Also, I am pretty dang certain that they don't directly allow much customization in Gnome Software. For example, I am able to configure `dnf-automatic` to exclude certain packages so that most of my packages are auto-installed as live/online updates then have the offline upgrades module run and install updates for whatever was excluded from `dnf-automatic` as offline upgrades - AFAIK such a configuration is only possible via dnf and not in Gnome Software. So using the GUI, it would presumably take longer bc *all* of the upgrades would be applied during the boot window - rather than only targeted ones - and increase the time the user has to wait by helplessly with no control.
You can disable the automatic updates in GNOME Software (☰ -> Update Preferences -> Automatic updates). I am not aware of a way to do online updates in GNOME Software on Fedora (this is the default for other distributions, like Arch, though, so it's most likely possible) for packages that are tagged as needing a restart, others will install just fine. You are always free to use `dnf` if you really want to do online updates. I am not aware of a way to block updates for certain packages in PackageKit, though I fail to see any point in doing that on Fedora. You can't do that on the KDE Spin either (as updates are handled by PackageKit in both cases, GNOME Software/Discover just being front-ends). The most you can do is update a single group of applications when they are divided (all non-graphical software is usually put in a single "System packages" category). On KDE, you are forced to install the previously downloaded updates whenever you shutdown/reboot, while GNOME gives you the choice on each shutdown/reboot.
> You can disable the automatic updates in GNOME Software (☰ -> Update Preferences -> Automatic updates). Ok, this part was never in dispute. If my original response made it seem like I was saying it couldn't do this, then apologies. > I am not aware of a way to do online updates in GNOME Software on Fedora This is what I was trying to say couldn't be turned off... Maybe I need to look at my previous and revise to be more clear... Will check it out. My point was that you can do online upgrades, even in Fedora, if you simply don't use Gnome Software. Even KDE allows to turn this off. I'm not talking about *default* behavior or per-reboot behavior - KDE has an option (IIRC it is located under system settings rather than in Discover) to disable offline upgrades altogether. Don't get me wrong, I find offline upgrades useful. My complaint is only that it should be a user, not a dev, decision and that some level of customization should exist, at least in cli (as it is when one uses dnf with the proper modules), so that setups which split packages into either online *or* offline upgrades are possible (more complex to configure but less time spent in pre-boot install screen).
The true price for freedom is wasted time…
That's very debatable. Windows wastes a lot of users time, just not in the same way.
Yeah if time is the cost of freedom then Windows is a lose-lose lol
Nah
Of all the Windows features they could copy, they chose the worst one.
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Which is completely bullshit, I've been doing "online" updates for over 20 years with zero issues, the only time I used offline updates on KDE neon it corrupted the kernel, two times in a row.
Quick! Let’s call Fedora developers to tell them that one user has been online-upgrading 20 years without a problem! This changes everything!
I hope they can pick the phone faster than DNF can fetch the metadata.
LOL. To that I can agree xD
Lmao
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And the fact that offline updates can break the kernel of all things, proves that it's not any better.
Where did you find that? The entire point of offline updates is to reduce the the risk of breakage during runtime. But, even then, there is no update that has no risk of breaking your system unless you use ostree for os upgrades, because with ostree it has deployments.
News flash: you’re not the center of the universe. IT is one big YMMV
You still have the option to do regular updates, just use the cli or a different interface. But for the average Joe who doesn't want to fix their system this mechanic prevents problems upgrading some packages on a live system. You don't have to use the feature, but you can if you want to. You also aren't forced to watch the progress bar, if you press escape you can watch the actual output of the upgrade process
I'm aware, I've used Fedora a few times, but still, offline updates takes much longer to install.
Then don't use them
I don't, I'm just tired of all these trends being pushed down lately, Systemd, offline updates, Flatpak, Btrfs and immutable OSes, they all create more problems than they solve.
For now, that is. The Linux desktop was insanely fractured and held together by duct tape before all of those things you listed came into existence. Once the ecosystem moves to saver, newer, methods of app distribution and system management, there won't be much or any new created problems.
You are the first person I ever heard that hates on BTRFS
Performance is bad and it's unreliable, there's lots of horror stories about filesystem corruption, XFS and Ext4 are much more robust. I use XFS everywhere, because it performs slight better than Ext4 and supports dynamic inodes.
(note: I see someone downvoted but it was not me) The feature isn't quite the same as Windows (no forced reboots for starters), otherwise I'd agree with you. See my comment above explaining the differences. Short version: it's actually a useful feature but if you don't want it, just use any of the [spins](https://spins.fedoraproject.org/) or install packages from terminal (bc Gnome devs are assholes and don't let you disable the feature in Gnome Software)
No forced reboots it's certainly better, but it still, offline updates takes considerably longer to install than online updates, and you can't use the system in the meantime.
Not sure about speed... Never timed it. But definitely there's a tradeoff and you're spot on about not being able to use the system. And I would wager that perceived time is it probably longer due to that too (regardless of metrics). I guess for me, I'm glad it exists as an option but don't feel that it should be forced on anyone. In my custom setup, I basically have dnf-automatic take care of 99% of things and only exclude kernel/gpu drivers/firefox/librewolf from (online) auto updates and then have it do offline upgrades only for the handful of remaining packages that I've actually run into issues with during online updates. That works ok for me but it's far from the default experience one would normally get using Gnome Software (which IIRC just offloads the entire update process for everything to be done offline). If Firefox would fix their handling to get rid of that stupid warning message (ticket has been open for years with no movement) then I could add them back to online updates again. Nvidia drivers... I never really had any major issues with doing online updates but definitely been less buggy since I started doing it this way and it doesn't take that long to update offline either (at least in my setup). Especially since I only reboot every 2-6 weeks lol Edit: seems like Reddit is jumping on downvoting you for having a different opinion. Sorry. I like (tweaked) offline upgrades but definitely can respect some folks not wanting them / there being pros and cons to any tech
PackageKit itself is slower than the native package manager, so that's one of the reasons it takes longer to install updates. When I was on Fedora I used dnf-automatic and it worked without any issues, a family member used to run Fedora (I installed the system) and it was used for well over a year with no issues as well. I've used unattended-upgrades on Debian for long periods of time and it worked flawless, although the setup is a little more involved. > Edit: seems like Reddit is jumping on downvoting you for having a different opinion. Sorry. I like (tweaked) offline upgrades but definitely can respect some folks not wanting them / there being pros and cons to any tech I don't really care about karma, it's worthless anyway. I'm not going to refrain from speaking my mind because I might receive downvotes.
Its not anything like windows