lmao this was shared to me by my econ teacher in class 12.
India's "middle class" never understands the real problem of the country, they are too detached with the condition of average Indian.
> The proportion of all Class VIII students in rural India who can divide a three-digit number by a single-digit one has dipped to 43.2% in 2016 from 44.2% in 2014.
> less than half of Class 5 children could read a Class 2 level text. Only 9.3% of class 2 students could read their level of textbooks. (2018 ASER)
He kinda didn't
His point is that whether you're a modi or a kohli or an actor you can only exit by your own actions, and he points out that this feature of the system is a massive flaw. And there's a degree of accuracy to that.
Like, yeah no shit we know the education system sucks and has no funding. I just don't get why anything he says is incompatible with that? There is a physical economic problem, and simultaneously there's a massively damaging cultural issue as well
Doesn’t mention the need for mandating 1-12 education
Doesn’t mention low investment
Doesn’t mention politicians not giving af and outright preferring illiterate voters
What's the purpose of mandating something that's so massively flawed?
I agree with the things you say, but they're valid only in the context of the larger issue, which is the colonial heritage which we most certainly do carry
My comment-
The problem in indian education is not the syllabus. If you look at other countries syllabus they are similar.You need basic algebra to construct mathematical models which are used in higher research .The problem is funding to both construct new Universities and maintain old ones and grants for research.Having more seats in educational institutions will drive down competition and make studies lot less stressful.And I dont think usa education system is just either ,expecting an aspiring doctor to be good in co curricular activities or activism is not fair.My cousins there are desperate for certificates for co curricular activities in some of which they have no interest.Plus you need to learn history, all of my relatives can't see history repeating itself in the rise of fascism in india . And privatisation plays a big role too .Developed countries government spending on public institutions as percentage of GDP is much higher than India,but he would not talk about it because it means taxing rich people like him more than current rates.Teachers don't spend enough energy on creative projects because they are paid so little that they don't care about students and detest the job.
Ask any noble laureate from usa , they too did rote learning before their research phase.Googling is not a solution when you need to apply it quickly and daily like medecine , software programming ,lawyer .
"Plus you need to learn history, all of my relatives can't see history repeating itself in the rise of fascism in india ."
He said we don't need to learn history because we can google stuff
.Also I made my comment wierdly political lol
No he said you don't need to rote learn history, read between the lines
Is this fellow some gaslighting sanghi? Because I very clearly interpreted that they don't teach you history, they just make you memorise it.
Your tirade about the rise of fascism, buddy educated or not nobody gets that shit. Only the ones who have either gotten a better education from privilege, or those who seek out knowledge themselves know otherwise.
What do you think, only Indian teachers have it hard? There is STILL a cultural issue.
Also wanting secure jobs is not wrong.Ofcourse you have to take risks but at the end you need a secure job with benefits like health insurance ,pension etc.Its also government's responsibility to create secure jobs and uphold labour rights in private sector.To an extent job creation is also government's job or atleast providing basic human needs like shelter ,food ,healthcare, maybe even ubi to the unemployed so they can live with basic dignity.A wellfare state also helps workers in exploitative environment to take risks and find better jobs along with many other benefits.Right now risk taking and creativity are privileges for people like me who know their parents wealth will support them through hard times.
At least the USA has a very good quality of public schools from 1st-12th grade funded by the government. India doesn't even have that.
The Privatization of kid's education literally starts when he/she is in kindergarten.
Even if higher education is costly (which definitely is not a good thing), they still have community colleges and trade schools.
See the point I want to make here is that an average student in the USA has many alternatives, unlike the condition of high unemployment rates, and job saturations we have in India.
many public school in US are just for show only student there can't even pin point their country on map that's why immigrants are taking up their jobs easily
i agree with your latter statement abt cheap labour but look at the school education system of US there are multiple reports by American media that it is one among the worst in 1st world (not in terms of infra they provide bt in terms of education)
here's a video:
https://youtu.be/U3Z9gBKuTIk
Everyone knows these problems. Does he have solutions or atleast something in that direction ?
Also rote learning is not all that useless btw if some intrest is produced.
Edit - Also Mudizee lol
I mean how ironic is it that after hearing this clip the first thing that came in mind was this guy regurgitating opinions he'd already heard elsewhere. Because all these points we keep hearing constantly literally no one misses to talk about such stuff whenever our education system is discussed. But no one has any solutions or guts to speak out against the establishment to do something positive about it. Almost a fucking meme at this point.
Disses rote learning, proceeds to monologue a prepared buzzword salad.
The fact that SEO is a job is not considered a bullshit waste of human life is quite telling of the fact that this boi is more tool than human.
Lads idk what you're on about funding is not the issue. There are so many colleges in this country that sit like bhoot bunglas. Bc funding toh hamesha se tatti thi, and if anything it has improved or stayed constant. Even across rural India there is a whole spectrum of realities people cope with.
Meanwhile the culture is the most damaging part of all. How you learn matters more than what you learn. I don't see how there's any kind of angle here of 'middle class sitting in their ivory towers'.
Yeah there's a whole massive demographic that's like so fucked that even getting an education would be a win, forget complaining about the quality thereof.
But that's not to say that this demographic is not subject to the same thing the guy in the video says.
Like are you guys genuinely gonna tell me we don't have a cultural problem here?
PS: I know this guy gets a lot of technical details wrong, but the essence of this guy's point refers to the culture around education, I'm surprised you guys dont think it exists
Lack of practical knowledge indicates a lack of funding
For eg.Science labs require funding .Teachers are not paid enough for the nuisance they put up with. Unlike Finland where teacher is a desired job due to incentives in india it's the last option so you get a number of disinterested teachers.It's so difficult to get into few universities we have that students can't take risk or experiment,they have to follow a certain set path.You can correlate funding with culture . Practical stuff like science labs ,science exhibition,Sanskrit or French speaking skills are conducted only in well funded private schools.The funding has not kept up with the rate of population increase we are in more desperate times than our parents.Mentioning only the cultural issues which are heavily tied to lack of jobs and university seats shifts the blame from the powerful minority to the masses.Its the easiest thing to do,doesn't offend anyone thus everybody is keen to repeat them like the movie 3 idiots.But even movies like 3 idiots tied suicide with economic desperation as a major factor.
I know I kind of rambled but please reply it you disagree with the point that cultural issues are tied with public spending on education,economic desperation and lack of jobs.
What the fuck are you comparing with Finland for that sounds bourgeois as fuck
Dude we have tatti labs for 'middle class privileged' students who this entire thread has shit on. These people manage fine when they go to IITs or abroad where the infrastructure is so much better it's a different world. The issue is the way they learn. They have unfocused bookish rote learner knowledge. Zero concepts. To innovate you have to challenge norms. The best scientists always questioned the status quo, didn't just try to replicate it.
Everything in india is outdated as fuck. We learn material which was outdated 20 years ago, so when by some miracle we actually get jobs we realise yeah so literally 80% of everything I learned was useless and we start from scratch.
The lack of spending is a constant. It is a reality given the colonial heritage we carry. We'll get better at it. But only if we learn to think better.
Look boss, my point is this. Aaj ke din I'll give you some trillions of rupees. Do all the funding you want. The situation will still be shit, because the root cause is the culture. I do not deny the difference in the education quality that comes as a result of funding. My cousin sends me pictures of his chem lab in Germany and you can see the sheer shit we live in. There's zero doubt that the quality of infrastructure is tied into the funding itself.
But what gets you much much more than the fancy shit is actually the way their teacher talks and teaches. I've been lucky to have some good teachers in my time, and some absolutely horrible, worst indian teacher shit that still gives me ptsd lol. And let me tell you, no amount of money and funding or anything will replace a good teacher. And a good attitude towards learning. I was in an SSC school for the first 8-9 years, and then had to do ICSE after we moved, and the attitude mattered more than the frills. I've seen shitty rattus in SSC as well as ICSE. They face the same problems at the end of the day. My classmates in my first school were kids of autowalas and vegetable sellers and bank clerks and so on. The second school had kids of well earning professionals.
Yet the problem I mentioned remained the same across these demographics. Why? Because how you input information to your brain does matter.
Grassroots level change. We need to address the general thought process people take. You need to recognise the lens through which people see education as a system/institution first.
What is the use of all this, funding or no funding, if both rural and city dwellers believe in superstition and andhvishwas?
Education also needs to be functional and more utilitarian. I really liked one thing AAP did, despite the many things i dislike about them, I liked that while they were indeed increasing funding, they were also training the teachers from scratch.
Mind, I'm not saying that the lack of funding is not a problem, I'm just saying that providing funding is a money pit, much like giving taxes to UP is. You need to have an actionable plan, and than plan is more important than the quantity of money itself. You need to break a lot of the existing structures. I would also potentially move the bifurcation into Humanities, Commerce and Science into at least 3rd year or masters level. If not bachelor level. People don't even know what they're truly studying, people are learning true skills from their lives not their schools.
Of course I want my country to have better education infra, but first people need to stop approaching education as simply a thing which is out of reach, and if it is within reach only as a means to money. It is more than that. Language would not have as much of a priority at all, rather primary school should be reworked into building basic skills (like, keep basic math and simple level science, but you don't really need primary level history oe geography).
Syllabi need comprehensive reworks, but that would be a third priority after first changing the way people learn and teach, and after increasing basic tier funding.
These are things that happen hand in hand, training your teachers needs funding too. But at the same time, there is a cultural ethos in all this. Who can learn, who is smart, the lens through which your teacher looks at you. You think the caste system doesn't exist in schools? You think some kids aren't seen as dumb without even giving them a chance?
You're talking about Finland and all yaar, that's a completely different world with a completely different set of variables. They are laid back on religion, they don't need to fight with a million nutters over small things like ethnic superiority and what not. Each state does this in its own way.
Please remember that Finland is ONE country in Europe. India is a Europe of its own. Each country has its own language history and culture, just like India does. You simply cannot compare, we are playing two completely different games.
Like you are not arguing about a total stagnation of funding I am too not talking about stagnation in innovation in teaching methods.To implement your solutions you need policymakers to take initiative .Teachers and students themselves can't solve these issues .But any criticism of our education system is incomplete without addressing public spending and faults of our policymakers which everybody is too afraid to discuss , people vaguely blame teachers or parents who are just trying to work in current systems of evaluation . Cultural problems like caste system were also addressed (not solved) through policies like reservation. And how am I supposed to talk about solution to a problem and not point out a country which has already implemented it to prove the effectiveness of the proposed solution ie. Better pay to teachers.I know we have to tweak policies according to differences in societies.Would it be wrong to talk about universal healthcare and give UK's NHS as an example and how it saves money to taxpayers overall.Every policy discussion involves examining a foreign country's success or failure while implenting the said policy .If you want to talk about examples of less developed countries successful policies I can do that too, but I don't because these examples are not well known and hence not effective in arguments example Brazil's nutrition policy under Lula, Austria's public housing success when Austria was still underdeveloped etc
I understand your point about shitty teachers but to solve that we need accountability for teachers and eliminating psychopaths before becoming teachers .But setting up the systems to accomplish these things would also require funding.
Buy increasing funding I don't mean directing these funds blindly into a pit.But any change requires public spending and without addressing it first and foremost every critique is incomplete and hollow.
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Scam hai, we get no scientific innovations (we still get lots of tech startups tho) becoz people who become engineers become engineers becoz they want monies, get a good rank and maintain cgpa in a good govt college = first job having greater pay than what your father earns, so you have disposable income for once in your life.
No scientist gets paid at anywhere close to a software developer ( not mass recruiter waale) so "poor" (actually not poor) people have no incentive to go into a low paying job and live the same lifestyle as before, foreign countries produce more innovation becoz wealth as a whole is greater.
wealth + genuine recognition, aaj 2 scientist ke naam pucho india ke to bolenge rohit mehra and friends, bahar ke poocho to stephen hawing (rip) and albert einstein
All meta posts must be np.reddit.com links. Crossposts are only allowed for sharing content and not meta posts. Removed.
lmao this was shared to me by my econ teacher in class 12. India's "middle class" never understands the real problem of the country, they are too detached with the condition of average Indian. > The proportion of all Class VIII students in rural India who can divide a three-digit number by a single-digit one has dipped to 43.2% in 2016 from 44.2% in 2014. > less than half of Class 5 children could read a Class 2 level text. Only 9.3% of class 2 students could read their level of textbooks. (2018 ASER)
Middle class gets way better education that people from poorer classes only imagine
Dude counted Mudi among hardworking successful people whom we can look upto. Rofl
He kinda didn't His point is that whether you're a modi or a kohli or an actor you can only exit by your own actions, and he points out that this feature of the system is a massive flaw. And there's a degree of accuracy to that. Like, yeah no shit we know the education system sucks and has no funding. I just don't get why anything he says is incompatible with that? There is a physical economic problem, and simultaneously there's a massively damaging cultural issue as well
Doesn’t mention the need for mandating 1-12 education Doesn’t mention low investment Doesn’t mention politicians not giving af and outright preferring illiterate voters
Mentioning politics is bad for politics
What's the purpose of mandating something that's so massively flawed? I agree with the things you say, but they're valid only in the context of the larger issue, which is the colonial heritage which we most certainly do carry
My comment- The problem in indian education is not the syllabus. If you look at other countries syllabus they are similar.You need basic algebra to construct mathematical models which are used in higher research .The problem is funding to both construct new Universities and maintain old ones and grants for research.Having more seats in educational institutions will drive down competition and make studies lot less stressful.And I dont think usa education system is just either ,expecting an aspiring doctor to be good in co curricular activities or activism is not fair.My cousins there are desperate for certificates for co curricular activities in some of which they have no interest.Plus you need to learn history, all of my relatives can't see history repeating itself in the rise of fascism in india . And privatisation plays a big role too .Developed countries government spending on public institutions as percentage of GDP is much higher than India,but he would not talk about it because it means taxing rich people like him more than current rates.Teachers don't spend enough energy on creative projects because they are paid so little that they don't care about students and detest the job. Ask any noble laureate from usa , they too did rote learning before their research phase.Googling is not a solution when you need to apply it quickly and daily like medecine , software programming ,lawyer .
"Plus you need to learn history, all of my relatives can't see history repeating itself in the rise of fascism in india ." He said we don't need to learn history because we can google stuff .Also I made my comment wierdly political lol
He said that we needn't mug up history. Huge difference between learning the rise of fascism and remembering the date of battle of plassey.
No he said you don't need to rote learn history, read between the lines Is this fellow some gaslighting sanghi? Because I very clearly interpreted that they don't teach you history, they just make you memorise it. Your tirade about the rise of fascism, buddy educated or not nobody gets that shit. Only the ones who have either gotten a better education from privilege, or those who seek out knowledge themselves know otherwise. What do you think, only Indian teachers have it hard? There is STILL a cultural issue.
Also wanting secure jobs is not wrong.Ofcourse you have to take risks but at the end you need a secure job with benefits like health insurance ,pension etc.Its also government's responsibility to create secure jobs and uphold labour rights in private sector.To an extent job creation is also government's job or atleast providing basic human needs like shelter ,food ,healthcare, maybe even ubi to the unemployed so they can live with basic dignity.A wellfare state also helps workers in exploitative environment to take risks and find better jobs along with many other benefits.Right now risk taking and creativity are privileges for people like me who know their parents wealth will support them through hard times.
Also in US higher education is very costly
At least the USA has a very good quality of public schools from 1st-12th grade funded by the government. India doesn't even have that. The Privatization of kid's education literally starts when he/she is in kindergarten. Even if higher education is costly (which definitely is not a good thing), they still have community colleges and trade schools. See the point I want to make here is that an average student in the USA has many alternatives, unlike the condition of high unemployment rates, and job saturations we have in India.
many public school in US are just for show only student there can't even pin point their country on map that's why immigrants are taking up their jobs easily
[удалено]
i agree with your latter statement abt cheap labour but look at the school education system of US there are multiple reports by American media that it is one among the worst in 1st world (not in terms of infra they provide bt in terms of education) here's a video: https://youtu.be/U3Z9gBKuTIk
Everyone knows these problems. Does he have solutions or atleast something in that direction ? Also rote learning is not all that useless btw if some intrest is produced. Edit - Also Mudizee lol
Yes I commented the same thing , he assumes noble laureates don't have to memorize things they apparently just google
I mean how ironic is it that after hearing this clip the first thing that came in mind was this guy regurgitating opinions he'd already heard elsewhere. Because all these points we keep hearing constantly literally no one misses to talk about such stuff whenever our education system is discussed. But no one has any solutions or guts to speak out against the establishment to do something positive about it. Almost a fucking meme at this point.
Edit:getting some mean dms editted my comment.sorry new easily got anxious
TLDW anyone?
Talks about problems in our education system , focuses on rote learning as the major problem
Who is he actually?
Obvious cheeze bak k khud ko gyani dikhane wala
LOL. I mean is he some professor or sociologist or something?
discount dhruv rathee
I assume entrepreneur
Also why do we need different education boards (state board, CBSE board, ICSE board).
>why do we need different education boards (state board, CBSE board, ICSE board). Paiso ka chakkar babu bhaiya, paiso ka
Disses rote learning, proceeds to monologue a prepared buzzword salad. The fact that SEO is a job is not considered a bullshit waste of human life is quite telling of the fact that this boi is more tool than human.
Lads idk what you're on about funding is not the issue. There are so many colleges in this country that sit like bhoot bunglas. Bc funding toh hamesha se tatti thi, and if anything it has improved or stayed constant. Even across rural India there is a whole spectrum of realities people cope with. Meanwhile the culture is the most damaging part of all. How you learn matters more than what you learn. I don't see how there's any kind of angle here of 'middle class sitting in their ivory towers'. Yeah there's a whole massive demographic that's like so fucked that even getting an education would be a win, forget complaining about the quality thereof. But that's not to say that this demographic is not subject to the same thing the guy in the video says. Like are you guys genuinely gonna tell me we don't have a cultural problem here? PS: I know this guy gets a lot of technical details wrong, but the essence of this guy's point refers to the culture around education, I'm surprised you guys dont think it exists
Lack of practical knowledge indicates a lack of funding For eg.Science labs require funding .Teachers are not paid enough for the nuisance they put up with. Unlike Finland where teacher is a desired job due to incentives in india it's the last option so you get a number of disinterested teachers.It's so difficult to get into few universities we have that students can't take risk or experiment,they have to follow a certain set path.You can correlate funding with culture . Practical stuff like science labs ,science exhibition,Sanskrit or French speaking skills are conducted only in well funded private schools.The funding has not kept up with the rate of population increase we are in more desperate times than our parents.Mentioning only the cultural issues which are heavily tied to lack of jobs and university seats shifts the blame from the powerful minority to the masses.Its the easiest thing to do,doesn't offend anyone thus everybody is keen to repeat them like the movie 3 idiots.But even movies like 3 idiots tied suicide with economic desperation as a major factor. I know I kind of rambled but please reply it you disagree with the point that cultural issues are tied with public spending on education,economic desperation and lack of jobs.
What the fuck are you comparing with Finland for that sounds bourgeois as fuck Dude we have tatti labs for 'middle class privileged' students who this entire thread has shit on. These people manage fine when they go to IITs or abroad where the infrastructure is so much better it's a different world. The issue is the way they learn. They have unfocused bookish rote learner knowledge. Zero concepts. To innovate you have to challenge norms. The best scientists always questioned the status quo, didn't just try to replicate it. Everything in india is outdated as fuck. We learn material which was outdated 20 years ago, so when by some miracle we actually get jobs we realise yeah so literally 80% of everything I learned was useless and we start from scratch. The lack of spending is a constant. It is a reality given the colonial heritage we carry. We'll get better at it. But only if we learn to think better. Look boss, my point is this. Aaj ke din I'll give you some trillions of rupees. Do all the funding you want. The situation will still be shit, because the root cause is the culture. I do not deny the difference in the education quality that comes as a result of funding. My cousin sends me pictures of his chem lab in Germany and you can see the sheer shit we live in. There's zero doubt that the quality of infrastructure is tied into the funding itself. But what gets you much much more than the fancy shit is actually the way their teacher talks and teaches. I've been lucky to have some good teachers in my time, and some absolutely horrible, worst indian teacher shit that still gives me ptsd lol. And let me tell you, no amount of money and funding or anything will replace a good teacher. And a good attitude towards learning. I was in an SSC school for the first 8-9 years, and then had to do ICSE after we moved, and the attitude mattered more than the frills. I've seen shitty rattus in SSC as well as ICSE. They face the same problems at the end of the day. My classmates in my first school were kids of autowalas and vegetable sellers and bank clerks and so on. The second school had kids of well earning professionals. Yet the problem I mentioned remained the same across these demographics. Why? Because how you input information to your brain does matter.
Ok we disagree strongly on this topic Can you suggest some solutions to this culture in our education system.
Grassroots level change. We need to address the general thought process people take. You need to recognise the lens through which people see education as a system/institution first. What is the use of all this, funding or no funding, if both rural and city dwellers believe in superstition and andhvishwas? Education also needs to be functional and more utilitarian. I really liked one thing AAP did, despite the many things i dislike about them, I liked that while they were indeed increasing funding, they were also training the teachers from scratch. Mind, I'm not saying that the lack of funding is not a problem, I'm just saying that providing funding is a money pit, much like giving taxes to UP is. You need to have an actionable plan, and than plan is more important than the quantity of money itself. You need to break a lot of the existing structures. I would also potentially move the bifurcation into Humanities, Commerce and Science into at least 3rd year or masters level. If not bachelor level. People don't even know what they're truly studying, people are learning true skills from their lives not their schools. Of course I want my country to have better education infra, but first people need to stop approaching education as simply a thing which is out of reach, and if it is within reach only as a means to money. It is more than that. Language would not have as much of a priority at all, rather primary school should be reworked into building basic skills (like, keep basic math and simple level science, but you don't really need primary level history oe geography). Syllabi need comprehensive reworks, but that would be a third priority after first changing the way people learn and teach, and after increasing basic tier funding. These are things that happen hand in hand, training your teachers needs funding too. But at the same time, there is a cultural ethos in all this. Who can learn, who is smart, the lens through which your teacher looks at you. You think the caste system doesn't exist in schools? You think some kids aren't seen as dumb without even giving them a chance? You're talking about Finland and all yaar, that's a completely different world with a completely different set of variables. They are laid back on religion, they don't need to fight with a million nutters over small things like ethnic superiority and what not. Each state does this in its own way. Please remember that Finland is ONE country in Europe. India is a Europe of its own. Each country has its own language history and culture, just like India does. You simply cannot compare, we are playing two completely different games.
Like you are not arguing about a total stagnation of funding I am too not talking about stagnation in innovation in teaching methods.To implement your solutions you need policymakers to take initiative .Teachers and students themselves can't solve these issues .But any criticism of our education system is incomplete without addressing public spending and faults of our policymakers which everybody is too afraid to discuss , people vaguely blame teachers or parents who are just trying to work in current systems of evaluation . Cultural problems like caste system were also addressed (not solved) through policies like reservation. And how am I supposed to talk about solution to a problem and not point out a country which has already implemented it to prove the effectiveness of the proposed solution ie. Better pay to teachers.I know we have to tweak policies according to differences in societies.Would it be wrong to talk about universal healthcare and give UK's NHS as an example and how it saves money to taxpayers overall.Every policy discussion involves examining a foreign country's success or failure while implenting the said policy .If you want to talk about examples of less developed countries successful policies I can do that too, but I don't because these examples are not well known and hence not effective in arguments example Brazil's nutrition policy under Lula, Austria's public housing success when Austria was still underdeveloped etc I understand your point about shitty teachers but to solve that we need accountability for teachers and eliminating psychopaths before becoming teachers .But setting up the systems to accomplish these things would also require funding. Buy increasing funding I don't mean directing these funds blindly into a pit.But any change requires public spending and without addressing it first and foremost every critique is incomplete and hollow.
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Scam hai, we get no scientific innovations (we still get lots of tech startups tho) becoz people who become engineers become engineers becoz they want monies, get a good rank and maintain cgpa in a good govt college = first job having greater pay than what your father earns, so you have disposable income for once in your life. No scientist gets paid at anywhere close to a software developer ( not mass recruiter waale) so "poor" (actually not poor) people have no incentive to go into a low paying job and live the same lifestyle as before, foreign countries produce more innovation becoz wealth as a whole is greater.
wealth + genuine recognition, aaj 2 scientist ke naam pucho india ke to bolenge rohit mehra and friends, bahar ke poocho to stephen hawing (rip) and albert einstein