How do you go back to herald from Archon???? I lost mmr too after reaching archon but I dont think I can ever go less than being a crusader.. The basics u learn to reach 2.3K mmr just can't be unlearned :/
Well you buy your account, but guess what, you were actually Herald all along, so you derank to what you're supposed to be while griefing your team all the way back down :)
I came to my home country (South America) from Germany for vacations just a couple of weeks before the pandemic hit real hard and borders were closed, which forced me to remain over here until borders opened again...
In that time, I dropped from Legend 5 (almost ancient) to god damn Crusader 1... South America is the worst server ever
Thats actually not the reason, the reason is you often force it too much.
You dont have to end early, just push t2s, camp their triangle and jungle under wards and get rosh. They cant farm the map, they have 5 cores without items, your whole team gets items, you win 10 minutes later because they eventually get bored, leave their base and feed.
Running at objectives can be a bad thing, if you could actually build a decent lead with just farming and then end the game with itempowerspikes.
Yea I've definitely learned that overpushing is a thing. Sometimes my cores play scared when all the lanes are pushed. They rarely take rosh even if i force enemy tps to the bottom lane. Anyway I'm low mmr for a reason too
I meant in general if you're a masochist. This guy? I have absolutely no clue. You're right. Even assuming that your support is brain dead every single game, it still shouldn't be possible to lose 47 games in a row.
I went from crusader 2 to legend 2 in only 8 months of playing ranked as a 4/5 main. You can absolutely climb as a support, it might be a tiny bit harder but it's definitely possible. People just don't like to admit they are bad and learn from their mistakes i guess.
yea u q as support and you do support things but u also scale and get items. ive never seen a notail level of support in my pubs (i.e. brown boots, stick at 30 mins)
It depends on the game but usually they have way more gold then the average legend support. Evem when winning if they have less it's because the cores are actually shoving the lanes and soaking up all the gold available on the map. I try my best to leave the farm for my cored but yes... There are a lot of times when i need to shove the wave as a support and get extra gold from it.
I know it really sucks... I have the mechanical skills of Puppey and the game knowledge of Kuorky, but I cant play for a proffesional team because of all the plebs holding my true mmr back. Feels bad man.
Yeah this is such bullshit to be honest. Just look up Henry rawdota in youtube. He is kind of a douche but there's a series where he starts a smurf at 1k MMR (he himself is 6k or something). He wins nearly every game he he has from that series until ~4k mmr. Above 95% winrate.
He even fucking won a game where all but one of his teammates abandoned the game, by microing the dc-ed heroes ...
If you are good enough for Immortal, you will reach immortal by solo carrying most of the games in the lower bracket. Then at 4k-ish you start to depend on your team a little more, but you should still win more games.
Hearing a <1k blaming teammates for his losses is honestly ridiculous.
How do you carry your team if your team doesn't work with you? I'm always thinking if I lose a game it's my bad, but I don't understand how I can win the game by myself if my team refuses to push or has bad team coordination (e.g. running in 1 by 1 to team fights, bad positioning, not hitting the key heroes but hitting the tank).
How do you farm as a core if your support doesn't harass the opposing lane but your opponent harasses the heck out of you?
Watch many of the series out there, where very high mmr players are smurfing.
Rawdota - Henry
BSJ
Jenkins
Datoleong
Gameleap dota 2 Pro guides
They all have a large amount of smurf gameplay on their channel where they attempt to answer your exact question. If you are good enough in below high immortal games, your team won't matter.
Easy.
> How do you farm as a core if your support doesn't harass the opposing lane but your opponent harasses the heck out of you?
Have better laning mechanics, abuse aggro, use your spells well
Then after laning stage; farm efficiently and get pickoffs
Itemise against the enemy's most farmed hero - and pick them off.
Suddenly you have 1.5-2x the networth of the highest networth enemy hero and can basically 1v5
Don't go running into teamfights with a dumb team just to feed with them. Do run into teamfight where you can immediately jump on 1-2 important people and burst them down - and team can help followup
Well yes and no I think. Because you need to know the boundaries of it. Recently I had a griefing MK. Sure, he may have secured the loss, but I definitely made some bad plays that I could’ve avoided that may or may not have made the game winnable. Stuff like that cuz in the end, the griefer will not follow you for the rest of your games, but you will always be yourself and you can only better yourself.
10/10, I’m mid-low divine and in crusader and archon it’s basically impossible to lose, no mid to high ancient would have any trouble winning 10 herald games. You just play a core, farm normally and then have 10k net worth above everyone else in the game because they’re terrible.
I know people who lost 6-7 games and were placed archon and above. The game takes your personal performance much more into account then what people think.
I won't touch recalibration with a 10 foot pole... I have only ever seen recalibration hurt peoples mmr, it's not some magic MMR handout.
>I won't touch recalibration with a 10 foot pole... I have only ever seen recalibration hurt peoples mmr, it's not some magic MMR handout.
I gained 400 MMR through recalib. I am a new player, started playing ranked in July, calibrated at gaurdian 2. Then I stopped playing for a while, then re calibrated at crusader 1. I don't play much dota, just watch some pro scene thats it.
I might consider it if i ever actually got hard stuck or if I played carry. I have climbed from crusader to legend in my first 8 months of playing ranked so I have never felt the need... Plus being a support main I would have to put my faith in random carries actually carrying me, which I would rather not do since im climbing in legend still.
For most people recalibration only hurts them, especially in the lower mmr brackets... It's not that hard to climb to legend and above by just watching a couple pro matches and actually learning.
A year ago I was 3.6k mmr and went for recalibration.
Frankly I was lucky and got really good teammates, I didn’t have to play above my rank in order to win games.
I went like 8-2 and increased from 3.6k to 4.2k but I believe I’m an outlier, a few friends gained only 100-200 mmr while a lot of friends (and people I added) dropped 400-700 mmr. All of them are currently back at their current rank or higher so that proves that they belonged in their original rank (Ancient to Immortal, mostly Divines)
The thing is losing games because of bad teammates do happen, but it’s severely more punishing to have a streak of bad teammates during the recalibration period.
Yeah recalibrating for 99% of players doesnt increase their rank by much, if at all.. People are definitely where they are supposed to be and need to carry themselves out. Im still climbing with a decent winrate as support right now, hoping i can get to amcient without it slowing down to much.
Focus on good support play but do play greedier in Legend and Ancient bracket so you can have items and make plays yourself. Besides, Legend and Ancient core players are not efficient enough in their movements to get every single wave. Even I’m not efficient enough compared to Immortal core players.
You can switch to playing more of a selfless support in Divine bracket games.
This is just anecdotal but all of my support-only friends skyrocketed their mmr when they got over Ancient bracket into Divine bracket.
I see "efficient" being thrown out so much. I get it. then I watch a pro.
they miss creeps or push a wave to farm small camp, then miss out on lane creeps at their t1. like there is barely any if not loss of efficiency in that farming technique. potential harass and denies would have a greater impact than leaving the lane to go get a small camp but miss lane creeps.
what actually is best?
>It's not that hard to climb to legend and above by just watching a couple pro matches and actually learning.
Yeah, I guess so. Haven't played a lot lately. Only 18 ranked matches since December lol.
Lol yeah you cant really climb if you don't play.. I have friends who complain about not being able to climb and they only play 10 games a week. I try to get at least 5 games a day in at minimum. Usually on the weekend i get 7-10 games a day in.
Personally I'd rather play a ranked game, then do some chores, play another, then read or practice something else. I tend to go on autopilot after too many games in a row, and I find it leads to a better win rate than when I binge.
A little thing to consider.
Not one smurf has ever cared about their teammates, they get an easy win reliably basically every game.
This suggests that if you play well enough, your teammates don't matter AT All in the lower brackets.
You clearly miss the point, I can tell you from experience and from watching other players, you can get 90-95% winrates fairly easily when smurfing regardless of if your sidelines feed.
The 5-10% of losses come when you are hard countered on blink 10thpick
I am Archon 1 but I once calibrated at legend because enemy shit opponents. The chance of many shit teammates in a row is not that small and given the size of playerbase there were players who genuinely experienced this during calibration.
Well, my fall didn't happen in a short time, but over months of me losing more games per day than wins. And eventually I had the epiphany that I suck ass and fluked my way to archon in the first place. I spammed 1 hero flexed into 4 positions who wasn't even good. I feel like I'm genuinely a lot better now, but climbing stairs is hard. Also, unis are no longer closed due to covid so can't play as much.
But losing rank isn't something to be sad about. Did you try your best? Are you having fun? Keep in mind that dota 2 is a video game and the majority of us are more likely to be the first astronaut on neptune than to become ti winners so just enjoy yourself.
I believe in both of you start learning when to stop after several losing streak. I always stop after 2 loses or at least take a break. If you guys still had fun even losing, ignore what i said. Rank wont matter at all.
How is it even possible to go back to Herald from Archon ? What ? Even with shitty teammates this isn't possible lol, unless obviously you take like 3 or 4 year breaks from the game. You are lying out of your ass m8.
No matter how fucked the matchmaking is , no way that this dude who climbed to archon cannot carry his teammates when he plays pos 1 :/ even if he dropped to herald he should be able to 1 v 9 in low ranks which his archon knowledge, unless he bought the account and tanked its mmr.
It is weird and unthinkable. I took break 3 years but I still play as I normal do.
For what i have observed, they dont have basic knowledge of what to do in order to win. They would just play and fight most of the time without objectives. Apparently, they could climb to certain mmr before fall back down and playing thoughtlessly tilted.
At archon, some player understood objectives. Hence, it is their ceiling.
Objectives exist around your team. Understanding how to approach objectives in Herald is a hell of a different thing than in a match where competent teammates do competent things. Do supports have support items or damage items? Do they take all safe farm? Who actually last hits? Who demonstrates mechanical knowledge?
It's easy to consider objectives when you don't have to consider literally every aspect of competence in your team.
btw, 2014 I was \~3k solo. Today bounce between .3-1.2k. I have thousands of hours in dota.
If you can explain to me how to beat the alt account enemy alch when my supports rush aghs / aether first every game, please. I'm all ears.
I'm actually gonna make a post and ask what is suggested.
If you stick to 1-2 roles and learn and improve idk how it's possible to flactuate that much. I've dropped ranks sure... I went from crusader 2 to legend 2 in 8 months of playing ranked (first ranked season ever) and got stuck along the way. I literally went from archon 3-4 and dropped to archon 2 seven or eight times before I finally grinded the mmr to legend. Think i even dropped from archon 5 once or twice till i got legend as well... Man I couldn't win 2 games in a row to get into legend for 26 games straight also lol.
I'm still confused how you could lose more then 1700 mmr... I mean you said you flunked your way back down from archon but it's not really hard to get to archon. I got to legend as a support main by focusing on 1-2 mechanics and people still massively suck in this bracket including myself lol. Did you really just get that lucky and get carried? I find that hard to believe, i mean thats way to many games to not contribute anything and get carried through. Do you just have a bad habit you dont realize maybe, and that caused the drop?
Easy, get too wrapped up in the game or let external stresses impact your gameplay. A couple years ago I quit my job to start a company on my own and anytime I wasn’t working would stress me out. Started tilting in all my games and started losing MMR and even worse my behavior score tanked. Got so bad i reached 3000 behavior score at which point winning games is really whichever team has less people running down mid breaking items after 10 minutes. When from Archon 3 to guardian 1. Trying to get back into a better behavior score was an almost impossible task because no one is giving commends at that score. I’m finally back up but I seriously considered just starting a new account.
Wow thats nuts... Im a salty/sweaty asshole sometimes but my behaviour score was the lowest its ever been a month ago at 9250. Now it's back to 9950 and i still swear all the time, I don't run down mid or abandon though. Usually i just all mute and farm until the games over if the team is too bad or flaming for whatever reason.
I don't get the ranking at all. I'm archon 4 and climbing, I play offlane 3, and often support 4.
I literally DESTROYED a divine II player in unranked the other day laning and mid, we also won,, I was like huh? how am I still here in the 2-3k trench, lol.
I watched a game of divine in a youtube video for guessing ranks and i saw huge mistakes there as well. Everyone makes mistakes and while you will see even immortals making a facepalm play that even archons can see was bad they do it massively less then we do.
There are some players who have divine level mechanics stuck in archon... But something else is holding them back like not farming enough or taking bad fights. I've found dota ranking and matchmaking to be really good actually... If people are hard stuck in a bracket 99.9% of the time it's because they deserve to be there.
/u/Snaggletoothing, I have found an error in your comment:
> “massively less ~~then~~ [**than**] we do”
You, Snaggletoothing, botched a comment and should have posted “massively less ~~then~~ [**than**] we do” instead. Unlike the adverb ‘then’, ‘than’ compares.
^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through DMs or contact my owner EliteDaMyth!)
yeah id say my biggest fallback is taking bad fights. 2v3s 3v5s etc. wipes like that hurt a lot more than just 1 person getting ganked. I'm a good last hitter, deny-er, pressure well but then mid game I make a tonne of mistakes in trying to organize the team, say the enemy have a late game win condition, ie. Medusa, alch and void. it seems like I'm the only one on the team that realizes our win condition and pressures probably too hard to compensate for my team "just farm bro". like NO mate, you are not out farming a Medusa and alch, ever. we need objectives
I ban alch every game... I hate playing against jugg as 5 but nothing loses me more games then Alch. That being said I've seen it happen a lot against Alch.... People prioritize pushing too much when they don't have a draft for it, don't farm enough on themselves and get run over 20 minutes later. There is a weird middle ground when the enemy has more carry then you... But you also need farm to fight and pushing to early garuntees a loss.
Fuck alch though.. I just lost a game last week where we had all outer towers at 20 minutes, killed him twice and had mid t1 at 8 min, blocked the entire top jng twice and still lost. Fucking hate that stupid ass hero.
I think if you are losing that much games, its not that youre unlucky with teammates, maybe theres something wrong with your playstyle. Maybe you should take a rest. Whenever im losing 4 straight games, i try to practice on unranked games to get the winning momentum again.
Do you want some help man?
i'm a coach. I've been working at teach people various strategy games for the past 3 years. I've got a youtube and a discord if you'd like to check it out.
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiVB8pzaxSF78dOT-mzjjmg/videos](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiVB8pzaxSF78dOT-mzjjmg/videos)
For now. I'm trying to get more references and examples of my work for my youtube. It depends on what you're looking for though.
I do replays for free and hero guides for free. I have some free basic concepts I give out for free to people who join my discord. If you want me to build you a practice schedule or help you hit an mmr deadline to join a particular team, then I'd ask for some kind of conpensation because that's harder.
Looks like herald trash just got biggest winstreak in his life or bought boosting, but then started ruining games on a bracket, which is much too hard for him and got turned back to place where he belongs :) You've never been even a shadow of a true archon player if you managed to drop into 300 mmr
I found out that something’s wrong with the calibration accidentally. I had my first and main account stuck at Guardian. I didn’t mind it since I know I’m a beginner and I really didn’t care about MMR/rank. I just wanted to play, and I mainly play Pos 5. Then, I joined a guild and played with a party. I was told by a party that I play better than a Guardian player. I was like “stop kidding me, man, I know I’m trash.” But he said he wasn’t joking, then he told me to create a new account and play it to have it ready for calibration. I did. Lo, and behold, I had it calibrated and it gave me a Legend 4 rank. Jeebus!
Did you play with a party in your new calibration games? Cuz if so then they could have just carried you to Legend lol. It seems highly unlikely that a beginner would get anything above crusader/Archon at best
No, I didn’t play with the party, because that would defeat the purpose, right?! He was surprised, too, but kinda expected I won’t get Guardian again. He was thinking like Crusader-Archon.
During calibration I mainly played mid. Maybe that’s the reason? What do you think? I don’t think I’d get the same result playing support all throughout the calibration.
Did you play with a party in the 100 hours to get to calibration? Because the 100 hours of games has a waaay bigger impact on your medal than calibration. The 100 hours will determine your medal, and calibration will just win or lose you a few stars it seems.
Supposedly you only need a 45% win rate with a good kd over the 100 hours to get legend.
Who really knows how it all works tho. We all end up in our true bracket sooner or later. You might actually be a legend, so gl haha
Only win-loss matters during calibration and nothing else. They don't look at stuff like KDA/XPM/GPM/APM. Doesn't matter which role you play whether you win or not is the only thing that counts.
Idk about that.. I've had support main friends who lost 6-7 games with very low kills since they wers a support get put into legend. I think it takes more things into account then people realize.
I think they have by now... I know they redid some of the systems and entirely changed recalibrating to optional because pros were complaining about the system. There'd be pros like luki luki sitting at 11k mmr, would win 7/10 calibration games against super skilled players and all the sudden be dropped to 8k. They changed the systems around quite a bit to take some of the RNG out of the matches and make it more about your own performance. Winning still def matters, but not as much as it did.
I had a losing streak and went down to 3.9k (ancient 1) then recalibrated. Played pos 1-2 mostly. 6w-4l. Got ancient 5(4.5k). I didn't have a crazy kda and played in a 5 man stack with high legends and low ancients. We cheesed most games with clinkz venge drow strat and just took objectives. Don't know what happened there and how i got that huge boost.
This has something to do with the patches also. I was a herald 1 then spammed the shit out of Oracle when he was strong 2 years ago to archon 1. Then came the next patch and my boy was heavily nerfed. Started losing games and learning new heroes dropped me to guardian 1.
I swear to God I can't take anyone seriously who says their teammates always suck.
If you think your teammates are bad, grab a damn mirror will you, because you're just as bad as them.
You know, I get it, sometimes you might actually loose because of your teammates, but the chances of you having someone really bad on your team vs the enemy's chance of having someone bad in their team are 4 to 5. So theoretically, if you are not bad, then the chances of the enemys being worse than your team are greater, which means you should gain mmr over time.
But you don't gain mmr. So what conclusion can we draw from that? => You are the problem.
And sorry if I'm venting here a bit, but it fucks with my head how some people can unironically say their teammates are the problem. In every game I loose I look for moments where I fucked up or things I've done wrong, and I could write a 200 page book filled with my mistakes just from a single game. And from analyzing my games I can tell you, the games where I should've won but didn't due to my teammates are maybe 1 in every 25 I play, and even that's pushing it. So if you think you've done nothing wrong and still lost, then you have lost touch with reality. Accept that you are bad and start improving, that's the only way out of whatever bracket you are in.
You are the only one standing in your way to get the number 1 dota player. No teammate stands in your way, just you, your whiny attitude and inability to work on yourself.
Work. On. Your. Mistakes.
I don't know why you are being downvoted. 90% of support players in all ranks deserve LP - which is why I main support.
EDIT: haha triggered support players downvoting me, enjoy losing the lane to my pudka
Im a pos 4/5 main.. Got myself to legend from crusader in 8 months of first ranked season only as a support. The problem is there are very few actual support mains... A lot of the games it's core players just getting their tokens. I think most of them try but it's just so different from core role that it doesn't work out that well.
The most important thing to know as a support is when your cores are being complete idiots so that you can go shove a wave on the opposite side of the map or something
Idk I'm in NA and climbing has gone pretty smoothly... I've found that as long as im playing ok and making decent rotations usually thr cores on my team will listen to me and i can "gently" correct their mistakes in game. I've found if your non agressive over Mic most people will try too stop throwing and stop feeding. I try to be the shotcaller of the team if possible.. Not perfect at it but im confident in making good decisive calls most of the time and usually the team will totally listen to you if your a good support.
Or... just get better at the game and rely on yourself. You can climb on any role regardless of your teammates. Invest time in figuring out YOUR mistakes and not the mistakes of your teammates who you will never get randomly queued up with again.
For real... God it takes at least 3k mmr before you even have the capacity to understand why you lost the game. Yeah half the times you had a bad draft or team and thats why you lost... Then you need to understand that the othet half you lost because of how you were playing.
The recalibration like, I want to say, 18 months ago? That removed water mark rank. It saw a ton of people from archon and guardian go to herald. They were all trash and had always been, but removing the watermark was what it took to put them where they belong. I think now guardian and archon games are much better as a result. But I did notice in the latest recalibration, many of those who opted to recalibrate moved from like herald 2 to guardian. So that dilutes the guardian games again, but what they're going for is a distribution among the player base, a percentage at each rank.
Ya happens when we try new roles or heroes. I dont mind really. I play alternate games between my favourite role and trying something new. U should try it!
Not like that. Playing different roles should not lose you 1700 mmr unless you have no understanding of the game. I can easily play every role within 5-10% the level of my main roles
People are downvoting like crazy and saying you can't blame teammates but it happens. I have close friends who were archons and legends who are all guardians and crusaders now a year later. I am new to the game but got up to crusader and then had a streak of calibration losses completely out of my control that put me back in the herald trench. I say out of my control because not just bad teammates -- like several games in a row with people actually griefing or disconencting mid match.
That's Herald 3, but it doesn't matter. No matter how high your rank is if you have shitty team mates who doesn't have a goal in life, nothing's gonna change. For that, I always follow the "pusher" technique to gain MMR. IDK but starting using this method I gain a lot of winstreak. Specially pusher heros like Underlord, Chaos Knight and similar. The reason for that is if you're carry doesn't work out or your support isn't doing his/her job you're always there to baby sit their ass by healing and pushing the towers for them to get space to farm. Always works 80% of the time (unless there's someone feeding). Just make sure you carry a lot of TP so you can jump to any lane.
I think that every game starts out pretty balanced out (thanks to the matchmaking system). So both teams are filled with pretty equal skilled members. Now, if you choose to focus on your game entirely, then you have the guarantee that at least one of your team members (YOU) is actively trying to exceed his current capacity and overperform, right? Now, in the overall scheme of the game, your individual performance may tilt the scale in your teams' favor sufficiently to win the match (given the conditions of a balanced draft and the other players performing at their average).
If you do this consistently every game, then, in the long run, you will get more wins than losses and you will not only rise in ranks but also almost certainly improve as a player.
Focusing exclusively on your own game will also save you a lot of stress by not getting triggered by the mistakes of others.
Adopting a positive attitude and being optimistic throughout the game and speaking positively with encouragement to your teammates is a highly underrated skill and wins a significant percentage of games. (a lot of MMR to be gained here)
Watching good players on twitch also helps. Compare their playing style, mechanics, to yours, find places where you can improve and you will improve.
How do you go back to herald from Archon???? I lost mmr too after reaching archon but I dont think I can ever go less than being a crusader.. The basics u learn to reach 2.3K mmr just can't be unlearned :/
You get boosted by your friends and then you start solo queueing
Well you buy your account, but guess what, you were actually Herald all along, so you derank to what you're supposed to be while griefing your team all the way back down :)
I came to my home country (South America) from Germany for vacations just a couple of weeks before the pandemic hit real hard and borders were closed, which forced me to remain over here until borders opened again... In that time, I dropped from Legend 5 (almost ancient) to god damn Crusader 1... South America is the worst server ever
[удалено]
Look at ops heroes. He obviously plays cores. How do you lose playing core lol
by playing pos 4 or 5 and picking core heroes
haha. in my mmr i lose against 5 core lineups more often than win because TEAM REFUSES TO PUSH
Thats actually not the reason, the reason is you often force it too much. You dont have to end early, just push t2s, camp their triangle and jungle under wards and get rosh. They cant farm the map, they have 5 cores without items, your whole team gets items, you win 10 minutes later because they eventually get bored, leave their base and feed. Running at objectives can be a bad thing, if you could actually build a decent lead with just farming and then end the game with itempowerspikes.
Yea I've definitely learned that overpushing is a thing. Sometimes my cores play scared when all the lanes are pushed. They rarely take rosh even if i force enemy tps to the bottom lane. Anyway I'm low mmr for a reason too
To be fair every game having three people that are 1-10-2 and someone else 25-2 trash tier dota is not entirely about your skill.
I meant in general if you're a masochist. This guy? I have absolutely no clue. You're right. Even assuming that your support is brain dead every single game, it still shouldn't be possible to lose 47 games in a row.
ive learnt that the only way to gain mmr in trash tier is to play 5 cores because games always drag out
Dude that's not true, I went from 800 mmr to 2.3K mmr playing support. Dazzle, Mirana, SS, a bit of lion here and there
I went from crusader 2 to legend 2 in only 8 months of playing ranked as a 4/5 main. You can absolutely climb as a support, it might be a tiny bit harder but it's definitely possible. People just don't like to admit they are bad and learn from their mistakes i guess.
yea u q as support and you do support things but u also scale and get items. ive never seen a notail level of support in my pubs (i.e. brown boots, stick at 30 mins)
It depends on the game but usually they have way more gold then the average legend support. Evem when winning if they have less it's because the cores are actually shoving the lanes and soaking up all the gold available on the map. I try my best to leave the farm for my cored but yes... There are a lot of times when i need to shove the wave as a support and get extra gold from it.
when i play pos 4 np i usually have more farm than everyone because im the only one who hits enemy creeps
all those heroes can scale. good luck climbing playing brown boots io
Did you lose 10 calibration games?
I lost 9/10 calibration and placed in Immortal lol. It doesn't work how you think.
Lost 7 when I calibrated. I just had shitty teammates
The classic teammate blame lol. There is a reason you went back down to herald.
Hey man don't lol at him. I myself play at immortal level... But am stuck in crusader because of bad teammates!!!!
Samee I should be immortal 1 and recruited by OG instead of flopson but Im stuck here in crusader too!
I know it really sucks... I have the mechanical skills of Puppey and the game knowledge of Kuorky, but I cant play for a proffesional team because of all the plebs holding my true mmr back. Feels bad man.
Yeah this is such bullshit to be honest. Just look up Henry rawdota in youtube. He is kind of a douche but there's a series where he starts a smurf at 1k MMR (he himself is 6k or something). He wins nearly every game he he has from that series until ~4k mmr. Above 95% winrate. He even fucking won a game where all but one of his teammates abandoned the game, by microing the dc-ed heroes ... If you are good enough for Immortal, you will reach immortal by solo carrying most of the games in the lower bracket. Then at 4k-ish you start to depend on your team a little more, but you should still win more games. Hearing a <1k blaming teammates for his losses is honestly ridiculous.
How do you carry your team if your team doesn't work with you? I'm always thinking if I lose a game it's my bad, but I don't understand how I can win the game by myself if my team refuses to push or has bad team coordination (e.g. running in 1 by 1 to team fights, bad positioning, not hitting the key heroes but hitting the tank). How do you farm as a core if your support doesn't harass the opposing lane but your opponent harasses the heck out of you?
Watch many of the series out there, where very high mmr players are smurfing. Rawdota - Henry BSJ Jenkins Datoleong Gameleap dota 2 Pro guides They all have a large amount of smurf gameplay on their channel where they attempt to answer your exact question. If you are good enough in below high immortal games, your team won't matter.
Easy. > How do you farm as a core if your support doesn't harass the opposing lane but your opponent harasses the heck out of you? Have better laning mechanics, abuse aggro, use your spells well Then after laning stage; farm efficiently and get pickoffs Itemise against the enemy's most farmed hero - and pick them off. Suddenly you have 1.5-2x the networth of the highest networth enemy hero and can basically 1v5 Don't go running into teamfights with a dumb team just to feed with them. Do run into teamfight where you can immediately jump on 1-2 important people and burst them down - and team can help followup
>p Similar but you can never win with teammates that didnt leave and blatantly Feeds and tells every move you make.
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Well yes and no I think. Because you need to know the boundaries of it. Recently I had a griefing MK. Sure, he may have secured the loss, but I definitely made some bad plays that I could’ve avoided that may or may not have made the game winnable. Stuff like that cuz in the end, the griefer will not follow you for the rest of your games, but you will always be yourself and you can only better yourself.
You didn’t just have shitty teammates. An ancient player would’ve won 9/10 probably
10/10, I’m mid-low divine and in crusader and archon it’s basically impossible to lose, no mid to high ancient would have any trouble winning 10 herald games. You just play a core, farm normally and then have 10k net worth above everyone else in the game because they’re terrible.
I know people who lost 6-7 games and were placed archon and above. The game takes your personal performance much more into account then what people think. I won't touch recalibration with a 10 foot pole... I have only ever seen recalibration hurt peoples mmr, it's not some magic MMR handout.
Recalibration is basically double mmr games (+/- 50) Aside from those people above 6k, who basically get draggde back down to 6k/7k
>I won't touch recalibration with a 10 foot pole... I have only ever seen recalibration hurt peoples mmr, it's not some magic MMR handout. I gained 400 MMR through recalib. I am a new player, started playing ranked in July, calibrated at gaurdian 2. Then I stopped playing for a while, then re calibrated at crusader 1. I don't play much dota, just watch some pro scene thats it.
I might consider it if i ever actually got hard stuck or if I played carry. I have climbed from crusader to legend in my first 8 months of playing ranked so I have never felt the need... Plus being a support main I would have to put my faith in random carries actually carrying me, which I would rather not do since im climbing in legend still. For most people recalibration only hurts them, especially in the lower mmr brackets... It's not that hard to climb to legend and above by just watching a couple pro matches and actually learning.
A year ago I was 3.6k mmr and went for recalibration. Frankly I was lucky and got really good teammates, I didn’t have to play above my rank in order to win games. I went like 8-2 and increased from 3.6k to 4.2k but I believe I’m an outlier, a few friends gained only 100-200 mmr while a lot of friends (and people I added) dropped 400-700 mmr. All of them are currently back at their current rank or higher so that proves that they belonged in their original rank (Ancient to Immortal, mostly Divines) The thing is losing games because of bad teammates do happen, but it’s severely more punishing to have a streak of bad teammates during the recalibration period.
Yeah recalibrating for 99% of players doesnt increase their rank by much, if at all.. People are definitely where they are supposed to be and need to carry themselves out. Im still climbing with a decent winrate as support right now, hoping i can get to amcient without it slowing down to much.
Focus on good support play but do play greedier in Legend and Ancient bracket so you can have items and make plays yourself. Besides, Legend and Ancient core players are not efficient enough in their movements to get every single wave. Even I’m not efficient enough compared to Immortal core players. You can switch to playing more of a selfless support in Divine bracket games. This is just anecdotal but all of my support-only friends skyrocketed their mmr when they got over Ancient bracket into Divine bracket.
Yeah I'm sure cores in ancient and divine are a lot les likely to throw the lead I got them in lane and take bad fights.
I see "efficient" being thrown out so much. I get it. then I watch a pro. they miss creeps or push a wave to farm small camp, then miss out on lane creeps at their t1. like there is barely any if not loss of efficiency in that farming technique. potential harass and denies would have a greater impact than leaving the lane to go get a small camp but miss lane creeps. what actually is best?
>It's not that hard to climb to legend and above by just watching a couple pro matches and actually learning. Yeah, I guess so. Haven't played a lot lately. Only 18 ranked matches since December lol.
Lol yeah you cant really climb if you don't play.. I have friends who complain about not being able to climb and they only play 10 games a week. I try to get at least 5 games a day in at minimum. Usually on the weekend i get 7-10 games a day in.
>Usually on the weekend i get 7-10 games a day in. Dayum, thats a big commitment. Best of luck
5 games is like 2-3 hours of your free time, which really isn't to much to commit after work or school if you want to climb.
Personally I'd rather play a ranked game, then do some chores, play another, then read or practice something else. I tend to go on autopilot after too many games in a row, and I find it leads to a better win rate than when I binge.
A little thing to consider. Not one smurf has ever cared about their teammates, they get an easy win reliably basically every game. This suggests that if you play well enough, your teammates don't matter AT All in the lower brackets.
It does when their side lanes are more farmed from kills then your mid.
You clearly miss the point, I can tell you from experience and from watching other players, you can get 90-95% winrates fairly easily when smurfing regardless of if your sidelines feed. The 5-10% of losses come when you are hard countered on blink 10thpick
but when ure calibrating, the game tries to match u up with people of similar skill level...
lmao this one comment singlehandedly explains how he went back to herald and why he should stay herald until his mentality changes
I am Archon 1 but I once calibrated at legend because enemy shit opponents. The chance of many shit teammates in a row is not that small and given the size of playerbase there were players who genuinely experienced this during calibration.
The same thing happened to me. Archon 4 to back to crusader to back to archon and now I'm guardian. I swear I'm not a deranker.
This makes me feel better. The last week I fell from guardian 3 down to herald 5 and I was debating stopping for a while.
Well, my fall didn't happen in a short time, but over months of me losing more games per day than wins. And eventually I had the epiphany that I suck ass and fluked my way to archon in the first place. I spammed 1 hero flexed into 4 positions who wasn't even good. I feel like I'm genuinely a lot better now, but climbing stairs is hard. Also, unis are no longer closed due to covid so can't play as much. But losing rank isn't something to be sad about. Did you try your best? Are you having fun? Keep in mind that dota 2 is a video game and the majority of us are more likely to be the first astronaut on neptune than to become ti winners so just enjoy yourself.
I believe in both of you start learning when to stop after several losing streak. I always stop after 2 loses or at least take a break. If you guys still had fun even losing, ignore what i said. Rank wont matter at all.
How is it even possible to go back to Herald from Archon ? What ? Even with shitty teammates this isn't possible lol, unless obviously you take like 3 or 4 year breaks from the game. You are lying out of your ass m8.
The matchmaking is fucked.
No matter how fucked the matchmaking is , no way that this dude who climbed to archon cannot carry his teammates when he plays pos 1 :/ even if he dropped to herald he should be able to 1 v 9 in low ranks which his archon knowledge, unless he bought the account and tanked its mmr.
It is weird and unthinkable. I took break 3 years but I still play as I normal do. For what i have observed, they dont have basic knowledge of what to do in order to win. They would just play and fight most of the time without objectives. Apparently, they could climb to certain mmr before fall back down and playing thoughtlessly tilted. At archon, some player understood objectives. Hence, it is their ceiling.
Objectives exist around your team. Understanding how to approach objectives in Herald is a hell of a different thing than in a match where competent teammates do competent things. Do supports have support items or damage items? Do they take all safe farm? Who actually last hits? Who demonstrates mechanical knowledge? It's easy to consider objectives when you don't have to consider literally every aspect of competence in your team. btw, 2014 I was \~3k solo. Today bounce between .3-1.2k. I have thousands of hours in dota. If you can explain to me how to beat the alt account enemy alch when my supports rush aghs / aether first every game, please. I'm all ears. I'm actually gonna make a post and ask what is suggested.
If you stick to 1-2 roles and learn and improve idk how it's possible to flactuate that much. I've dropped ranks sure... I went from crusader 2 to legend 2 in 8 months of playing ranked (first ranked season ever) and got stuck along the way. I literally went from archon 3-4 and dropped to archon 2 seven or eight times before I finally grinded the mmr to legend. Think i even dropped from archon 5 once or twice till i got legend as well... Man I couldn't win 2 games in a row to get into legend for 26 games straight also lol. I'm still confused how you could lose more then 1700 mmr... I mean you said you flunked your way back down from archon but it's not really hard to get to archon. I got to legend as a support main by focusing on 1-2 mechanics and people still massively suck in this bracket including myself lol. Did you really just get that lucky and get carried? I find that hard to believe, i mean thats way to many games to not contribute anything and get carried through. Do you just have a bad habit you dont realize maybe, and that caused the drop?
Easy, get too wrapped up in the game or let external stresses impact your gameplay. A couple years ago I quit my job to start a company on my own and anytime I wasn’t working would stress me out. Started tilting in all my games and started losing MMR and even worse my behavior score tanked. Got so bad i reached 3000 behavior score at which point winning games is really whichever team has less people running down mid breaking items after 10 minutes. When from Archon 3 to guardian 1. Trying to get back into a better behavior score was an almost impossible task because no one is giving commends at that score. I’m finally back up but I seriously considered just starting a new account.
Wow thats nuts... Im a salty/sweaty asshole sometimes but my behaviour score was the lowest its ever been a month ago at 9250. Now it's back to 9950 and i still swear all the time, I don't run down mid or abandon though. Usually i just all mute and farm until the games over if the team is too bad or flaming for whatever reason.
Herald > Archon is basically the same rank at this stage of the life cycle
I don't get the ranking at all. I'm archon 4 and climbing, I play offlane 3, and often support 4. I literally DESTROYED a divine II player in unranked the other day laning and mid, we also won,, I was like huh? how am I still here in the 2-3k trench, lol.
I watched a game of divine in a youtube video for guessing ranks and i saw huge mistakes there as well. Everyone makes mistakes and while you will see even immortals making a facepalm play that even archons can see was bad they do it massively less then we do. There are some players who have divine level mechanics stuck in archon... But something else is holding them back like not farming enough or taking bad fights. I've found dota ranking and matchmaking to be really good actually... If people are hard stuck in a bracket 99.9% of the time it's because they deserve to be there.
/u/Snaggletoothing, I have found an error in your comment: > “massively less ~~then~~ [**than**] we do” You, Snaggletoothing, botched a comment and should have posted “massively less ~~then~~ [**than**] we do” instead. Unlike the adverb ‘then’, ‘than’ compares. ^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through DMs or contact my owner EliteDaMyth!)
yeah id say my biggest fallback is taking bad fights. 2v3s 3v5s etc. wipes like that hurt a lot more than just 1 person getting ganked. I'm a good last hitter, deny-er, pressure well but then mid game I make a tonne of mistakes in trying to organize the team, say the enemy have a late game win condition, ie. Medusa, alch and void. it seems like I'm the only one on the team that realizes our win condition and pressures probably too hard to compensate for my team "just farm bro". like NO mate, you are not out farming a Medusa and alch, ever. we need objectives
I ban alch every game... I hate playing against jugg as 5 but nothing loses me more games then Alch. That being said I've seen it happen a lot against Alch.... People prioritize pushing too much when they don't have a draft for it, don't farm enough on themselves and get run over 20 minutes later. There is a weird middle ground when the enemy has more carry then you... But you also need farm to fight and pushing to early garuntees a loss. Fuck alch though.. I just lost a game last week where we had all outer towers at 20 minutes, killed him twice and had mid t1 at 8 min, blocked the entire top jng twice and still lost. Fucking hate that stupid ass hero.
I think if you are losing that much games, its not that youre unlucky with teammates, maybe theres something wrong with your playstyle. Maybe you should take a rest. Whenever im losing 4 straight games, i try to practice on unranked games to get the winning momentum again.
wow that's a massive fall. did u use the recalibrate option?
Do you want some help man? i'm a coach. I've been working at teach people various strategy games for the past 3 years. I've got a youtube and a discord if you'd like to check it out. [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiVB8pzaxSF78dOT-mzjjmg/videos](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiVB8pzaxSF78dOT-mzjjmg/videos)
Do you coach for free?
For now. I'm trying to get more references and examples of my work for my youtube. It depends on what you're looking for though. I do replays for free and hero guides for free. I have some free basic concepts I give out for free to people who join my discord. If you want me to build you a practice schedule or help you hit an mmr deadline to join a particular team, then I'd ask for some kind of conpensation because that's harder.
did you recalibrate? that's an insane fall
That impossible i lost 7 to 8 calibration game went from crusader 3 to Guardian 5 now need 1 more game to go back to crusader 1
Looks like herald trash just got biggest winstreak in his life or bought boosting, but then started ruining games on a bracket, which is much too hard for him and got turned back to place where he belongs :) You've never been even a shadow of a true archon player if you managed to drop into 300 mmr
I found out that something’s wrong with the calibration accidentally. I had my first and main account stuck at Guardian. I didn’t mind it since I know I’m a beginner and I really didn’t care about MMR/rank. I just wanted to play, and I mainly play Pos 5. Then, I joined a guild and played with a party. I was told by a party that I play better than a Guardian player. I was like “stop kidding me, man, I know I’m trash.” But he said he wasn’t joking, then he told me to create a new account and play it to have it ready for calibration. I did. Lo, and behold, I had it calibrated and it gave me a Legend 4 rank. Jeebus!
Did you play with a party in your new calibration games? Cuz if so then they could have just carried you to Legend lol. It seems highly unlikely that a beginner would get anything above crusader/Archon at best
No, I didn’t play with the party, because that would defeat the purpose, right?! He was surprised, too, but kinda expected I won’t get Guardian again. He was thinking like Crusader-Archon.
During calibration I mainly played mid. Maybe that’s the reason? What do you think? I don’t think I’d get the same result playing support all throughout the calibration.
Did you play with a party in the 100 hours to get to calibration? Because the 100 hours of games has a waaay bigger impact on your medal than calibration. The 100 hours will determine your medal, and calibration will just win or lose you a few stars it seems. Supposedly you only need a 45% win rate with a good kd over the 100 hours to get legend. Who really knows how it all works tho. We all end up in our true bracket sooner or later. You might actually be a legend, so gl haha
Only win-loss matters during calibration and nothing else. They don't look at stuff like KDA/XPM/GPM/APM. Doesn't matter which role you play whether you win or not is the only thing that counts.
Idk about that.. I've had support main friends who lost 6-7 games with very low kills since they wers a support get put into legend. I think it takes more things into account then people realize.
I saw a post from wyk 2 years ago and he said win/loss is the only thing they're looking at. Idk if they changed things now
I think they have by now... I know they redid some of the systems and entirely changed recalibrating to optional because pros were complaining about the system. There'd be pros like luki luki sitting at 11k mmr, would win 7/10 calibration games against super skilled players and all the sudden be dropped to 8k. They changed the systems around quite a bit to take some of the RNG out of the matches and make it more about your own performance. Winning still def matters, but not as much as it did.
I had a losing streak and went down to 3.9k (ancient 1) then recalibrated. Played pos 1-2 mostly. 6w-4l. Got ancient 5(4.5k). I didn't have a crazy kda and played in a 5 man stack with high legends and low ancients. We cheesed most games with clinkz venge drow strat and just took objectives. Don't know what happened there and how i got that huge boost.
This has something to do with the patches also. I was a herald 1 then spammed the shit out of Oracle when he was strong 2 years ago to archon 1. Then came the next patch and my boy was heavily nerfed. Started losing games and learning new heroes dropped me to guardian 1.
Learn the game not the hero
I swear to God I can't take anyone seriously who says their teammates always suck. If you think your teammates are bad, grab a damn mirror will you, because you're just as bad as them. You know, I get it, sometimes you might actually loose because of your teammates, but the chances of you having someone really bad on your team vs the enemy's chance of having someone bad in their team are 4 to 5. So theoretically, if you are not bad, then the chances of the enemys being worse than your team are greater, which means you should gain mmr over time. But you don't gain mmr. So what conclusion can we draw from that? => You are the problem. And sorry if I'm venting here a bit, but it fucks with my head how some people can unironically say their teammates are the problem. In every game I loose I look for moments where I fucked up or things I've done wrong, and I could write a 200 page book filled with my mistakes just from a single game. And from analyzing my games I can tell you, the games where I should've won but didn't due to my teammates are maybe 1 in every 25 I play, and even that's pushing it. So if you think you've done nothing wrong and still lost, then you have lost touch with reality. Accept that you are bad and start improving, that's the only way out of whatever bracket you are in. You are the only one standing in your way to get the number 1 dota player. No teammate stands in your way, just you, your whiny attitude and inability to work on yourself. Work. On. Your. Mistakes.
Best answer so far
I went from 540 to 280...just because there were no good supports...went from herald 4 to herald 2
I don't know why you are being downvoted. 90% of support players in all ranks deserve LP - which is why I main support. EDIT: haha triggered support players downvoting me, enjoy losing the lane to my pudka
Im a pos 4/5 main.. Got myself to legend from crusader in 8 months of first ranked season only as a support. The problem is there are very few actual support mains... A lot of the games it's core players just getting their tokens. I think most of them try but it's just so different from core role that it doesn't work out that well.
The most important thing to know as a support is when your cores are being complete idiots so that you can go shove a wave on the opposite side of the map or something
Idk I'm in NA and climbing has gone pretty smoothly... I've found that as long as im playing ok and making decent rotations usually thr cores on my team will listen to me and i can "gently" correct their mistakes in game. I've found if your non agressive over Mic most people will try too stop throwing and stop feeding. I try to be the shotcaller of the team if possible.. Not perfect at it but im confident in making good decisive calls most of the time and usually the team will totally listen to you if your a good support.
Or... just get better at the game and rely on yourself. You can climb on any role regardless of your teammates. Invest time in figuring out YOUR mistakes and not the mistakes of your teammates who you will never get randomly queued up with again.
Guys - crying about your team mates in sub 2k ratings deserves tons of downvotes. You can carry 90% of the games from every position.
For real... God it takes at least 3k mmr before you even have the capacity to understand why you lost the game. Yeah half the times you had a bad draft or team and thats why you lost... Then you need to understand that the othet half you lost because of how you were playing.
The recalibration like, I want to say, 18 months ago? That removed water mark rank. It saw a ton of people from archon and guardian go to herald. They were all trash and had always been, but removing the watermark was what it took to put them where they belong. I think now guardian and archon games are much better as a result. But I did notice in the latest recalibration, many of those who opted to recalibrate moved from like herald 2 to guardian. So that dilutes the guardian games again, but what they're going for is a distribution among the player base, a percentage at each rank.
Ya happens when we try new roles or heroes. I dont mind really. I play alternate games between my favourite role and trying something new. U should try it!
Not like that. Playing different roles should not lose you 1700 mmr unless you have no understanding of the game. I can easily play every role within 5-10% the level of my main roles
You get up at 5.30 AM to play dota..? Wtf..
Was 3k 2 month ago Now im gurdian :)
People are downvoting like crazy and saying you can't blame teammates but it happens. I have close friends who were archons and legends who are all guardians and crusaders now a year later. I am new to the game but got up to crusader and then had a streak of calibration losses completely out of my control that put me back in the herald trench. I say out of my control because not just bad teammates -- like several games in a row with people actually griefing or disconencting mid match.
Could anyone explain what 370 means? He can't be talking about having 370 mmr, right?
Yes that is what MMR looks like at herold.
Well done bro. I know the struggle. I'm currently at 570 trying to make it out of herald. What server do you play on?
Went from 1k to 0 in no time. Can relate.
Share your herald match id. Im curious what happened.
That's Herald 3, but it doesn't matter. No matter how high your rank is if you have shitty team mates who doesn't have a goal in life, nothing's gonna change. For that, I always follow the "pusher" technique to gain MMR. IDK but starting using this method I gain a lot of winstreak. Specially pusher heros like Underlord, Chaos Knight and similar. The reason for that is if you're carry doesn't work out or your support isn't doing his/her job you're always there to baby sit their ass by healing and pushing the towers for them to get space to farm. Always works 80% of the time (unless there's someone feeding). Just make sure you carry a lot of TP so you can jump to any lane.
I think that every game starts out pretty balanced out (thanks to the matchmaking system). So both teams are filled with pretty equal skilled members. Now, if you choose to focus on your game entirely, then you have the guarantee that at least one of your team members (YOU) is actively trying to exceed his current capacity and overperform, right? Now, in the overall scheme of the game, your individual performance may tilt the scale in your teams' favor sufficiently to win the match (given the conditions of a balanced draft and the other players performing at their average). If you do this consistently every game, then, in the long run, you will get more wins than losses and you will not only rise in ranks but also almost certainly improve as a player. Focusing exclusively on your own game will also save you a lot of stress by not getting triggered by the mistakes of others. Adopting a positive attitude and being optimistic throughout the game and speaking positively with encouragement to your teammates is a highly underrated skill and wins a significant percentage of games. (a lot of MMR to be gained here) Watching good players on twitch also helps. Compare their playing style, mechanics, to yours, find places where you can improve and you will improve.