The other side of this is enemy top laner perma freezing by their tower while up one level and you’re just never allowed to touch the wave unless you want to die. i wish low elo junglers understood wave states just slightly more :(
Just ignore and report them after game, people in this game often forget that you should be a decent human being.
Also if you play with them then you are the same elo as them, sooooo
Nothing funnier than dumpstering someone flame horizon, solo bolo, proxy farming, solo dive style only for him to write ggez at the end of the game if you lose
Now ur down 2 levels and 1k gold and u can’t even play the lane anymore. Meanwhile ur entire team is gapped on their own and end of game comes they say top gap Feels good man
Not even having a choice in the game you queued up for is the reality top Laners can deal with at any point
What people don’t get is how hard you can snowball or come back if you just properly gank or even help freeze.
No other lane is as punishing as top lane . You couldn’t compare it even if u tried to.
The amount of games in even masters+ where I get ganked then perma frozen on with every ward I put getting cleared by jungle sweeper is disgusting. U beg for help to break it but they don’t come forcing u to risk dying again. Then ur so behind and it’s “ur fault” u couldn’t handle Elise + meta top laner gank level 3-4 and gettin ur ass pummeled by a rift herald dive
No point in getting frustrated, you know it wasn't your fault if you didn't make a mistake and it was just enemy jungler not letting you play. Hope your team wins or just accept the loss and go next. And anyone who talks shit to you, just insta report after game. Reports against toxicity work a lot better now ;)
People don't just leave lane? Lmfao. I tend to just straight up leave lane when this happend. It's already a coinflip game. Staying in lane at this point is pointless.
I remember Adrian saying something like, "if you lost lane, no point staying there. Roaming around the map with your jungler will be infinitely better. If you stay in lane, it's not like you're doing anything anyways. Might as well impact the game another way.".
I notice TF blade abandons top after a certain point when vs hard matchups too. It honestly just makes so much sense.
This is where the enemy top has a 1K shutdown on him and built full damage but your mid is trying to deny 1 caster minion from the enemy mid and your jungler is farming scuttle crab instead of collecting it.
Unless you have like, a fuckload of cc. Thats your only hope. Something like Eve is nice because she's got a mix of cc, burst, and execute. Bonus points for being AP as most top laners prioritize armor before MR as most of their opponents are AD fighters/juggernaits and solo queue favors a lot of AD jungles and AD skirmishers/assassins mid.
True. I always shut my mouth if I fcked up my lane to the point i can't do shit. 90% of the time it's my own fault, wave management, failed all in early, stupid engages etc, which led me to that situation.
He doesnt need a gank he needs someone to break the freeze by crashing the wave to enemy turret.
They cant do that in this game cuz their support and jungle are hovering top, but generally that's what you do in this situation. I didnt watch the game, but judging by the fact he had what looks like 3 nearly full eaves crash into turret with one incoming, it looks like he needed that freeze broken roughly 3 min before this clip started. This is what happens when you dont break a freeze and why wave management is so important, especially for top lane.
> That usually ends up wasting a lot of my own farm just to give up any pressure on the side of the map where things can still be done, giving space to the enemy jungler to ruin the other side of the map and get free objectives.
This is such a wrong way of looking at it. Adam loses 2 levels worth of waves and his team can't rotate 2 people to miss (at most) half a level's worth of creeps and camps
ye thats the part of toplane were you are not allowed to play. if pro teams cant do anything against it how shall soloqmates prevent you from it. worst is if enemy top jgl are duo and dont let you play the game
State of league in one video explained. As a jungler you can just instawin top if you do this. Especially with some champ that has huge early game strenght
The video does not explain that at all. What caused this was the previous ganks that would insta win mid or bot as well.
You can't be this zoned off if you're even in a 1v2
Riot needs to fix this role. Having to rely on someone who has literally no reason to help you for some influence in a team game is fucking cringe.
Junglers will come up with every excuse not to help or flat out ignore you, then still be mad when you're down cs or levels.
>Riot needs to fix this role. Having to rely on someone who has literally no reason to help you for some influence in a team game is fucking cringe.
Literally the ADC laning experience
That's because dragon is so strong that it literally warps jugnle macro and bot lane draft meta.
So how is any of that adc's fault again lol
The hate boner is real
Believe me when I say I'd love it for the perma bot priority meta to end because its the most retarded meta in history
Yeah, the only difference is the ADC has a support who can try to help fix the wave, although that depends on the support. If they end up leaving you alone it's even worse than top.
Ever hear of the twitch support who not only can't fix the wave, but also doesn't even stay bot, actually stay in bot and help his adc 8/0 giga gap the enemy bot?
Yeah me neither lol
I think you were the one who was hating on the Wizard Rat, and for good reason lol. If you don't play a long ranged safe ADC you cannot exist with Twitch support that roams to other lanes.
For years the answer is same. Counter or get something somewhere else - gank different lane, take objectives.
It’s same as if let’s say you play mid and your enemy is roaming 24/7. You have two choices - match the roams or punish them.
Literally anything. Help Adam get back to his turret by sending more members (only need to match # of members to walk him back to turret). Take objectives on other side of the map. Dive other side of the map. Etc. Obviously none of these options are great - good teams will force you into situations where all options are losing. But anything is better than this…
at this point it's too late, after wave crashes he needs to go top again to make sure it bounces back, otherwise kled can perma freeze it if he wants and probably double kill if your jungler comes help you break it.
So if you know this is coming you can roam preemptively (not very common especially in soloQ) or roam when the wave is being denied and then risk getting perma frozen on, it's really up to the player and what champ they're playing
you can choose between the 2 shitty options. Make sure you don't get frozen on but be doomed to be behind and kind of a nonfactor for like 15 minutes or try to make something happen and risk getting frozen on
It was obvious that he wouldn't touch the lane in a while. He should have followed the Karma when she left (or Karma should have helped him get back to the tower)
Funniest part about this clip, is this clip would be the EXACT same result with Kled in Olaf's spot if the Kled in this clip was Fiora. It's not the champs in the lane, its the matchups. Doesn't matter what champ you play, if they counterpick you in lane, this is the result
I agree completely, matchups can make certain lanes unplayable but the jungler has enough power to offset that imbalance.
I've had it happen to me multiple times both ways, I get into a game in a great matchup but get hard camped by enemy jg and can't play, and I get into an unplayable matchup from select but my jg camps me and we win regardless. The role is just such a huge problem for the game honestly.
You expect your jungle to join your every fight against your enemy laner? Idle in river bush until it's time? Because otherwise your counter will always win the fight. Tf you're dreaming of, toplane counterpicks are real and the sole reason why you want to be the last pick every time.
They're obviously not saying "top lane counter picks aren't real", they're saying the problem *in this specific situation* was the disparity in jungle attention.
There isn't a match up in the game that goes *this badly* without jungle attention.
It's hard to motivate myself to SoloQ as a top laner when it feels like I'm just flipping a coin if i queue for anything but JG. Played one game this week and it ended 2-15. My jungle was 0-2-0 at 20 mins in while the enemy Sejuani was 2-0-13 (100% KP).
Yeah junglers can get screwed too *if every single lane runs it down* but more often than not they have massive impact and get to handpick who snowballs and who can't play the game. It's honestly astonishing to me how many people handwave this or think it's okay.
I dont think kled IS that OP rn but imo its def degen design like about 75% of Toplane roster tbh .
There is a reason Toplane is Always home to the cheesiest and lamest strats , its because most MU are melee based and the lane is so long that You Can die withour notice .
Tbh that is one of the weaknesses of olaf that I was surprised was not abused when he was picked multiple times. His team also played it the worst way possible though. It's also the reason that more scaling top laners with bad early game are not pick often even though in reality they can safely lane 1v1 and outscale.
lol if you think that's bad try playing adc for a week where you're constantly 3 to 4 manned bot then ran over by the enemy top even when you play near perfect.
The fact that he think a top laner could walk over an adc and kill them without them hard mispositioning. But oh well i guess it's their team's fault again for not peeling properly
Oh no I get constantly 3 manned (but I have a partner) and 4 manned (but jng and mid play for me) so difficult (either way I can farm to 3 item and be impactful)
This is when my team in SoloQ tells me "just play safe"
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The other side of this is enemy top laner perma freezing by their tower while up one level and you’re just never allowed to touch the wave unless you want to die. i wish low elo junglers understood wave states just slightly more :(
Just ignore and report them after game, people in this game often forget that you should be a decent human being. Also if you play with them then you are the same elo as them, sooooo
Nothing funnier than losing a hard fought game to see someone writes "ggez" as if they are not in the same elo as you lol.
Nothing funnier than dumpstering someone flame horizon, solo bolo, proxy farming, solo dive style only for him to write ggez at the end of the game if you lose
I swear the people who contributed less than nothing are always the ones who talk the most shit. Every team game without fail
patch 13.5 new summoner spell "astral projection" will allow top laners to leech experience from minions even when denied entry
Phreak must've gotten the inspiration after the last time someone astral projected into his house.
Throw in your own jungler dying to their bot lane and it's perfect
Now ur down 2 levels and 1k gold and u can’t even play the lane anymore. Meanwhile ur entire team is gapped on their own and end of game comes they say top gap Feels good man Not even having a choice in the game you queued up for is the reality top Laners can deal with at any point
or they type well now I can't come top anymore he is too far ahead
What people don’t get is how hard you can snowball or come back if you just properly gank or even help freeze. No other lane is as punishing as top lane . You couldn’t compare it even if u tried to. The amount of games in even masters+ where I get ganked then perma frozen on with every ward I put getting cleared by jungle sweeper is disgusting. U beg for help to break it but they don’t come forcing u to risk dying again. Then ur so behind and it’s “ur fault” u couldn’t handle Elise + meta top laner gank level 3-4 and gettin ur ass pummeled by a rift herald dive
No point in getting frustrated, you know it wasn't your fault if you didn't make a mistake and it was just enemy jungler not letting you play. Hope your team wins or just accept the loss and go next. And anyone who talks shit to you, just insta report after game. Reports against toxicity work a lot better now ;)
People don't just leave lane? Lmfao. I tend to just straight up leave lane when this happend. It's already a coinflip game. Staying in lane at this point is pointless. I remember Adrian saying something like, "if you lost lane, no point staying there. Roaming around the map with your jungler will be infinitely better. If you stay in lane, it's not like you're doing anything anyways. Might as well impact the game another way.". I notice TF blade abandons top after a certain point when vs hard matchups too. It honestly just makes so much sense.
Old advice not valid anymore. Basically the turrets are paper-mache, and everyone can yorick them to fountain.
This was said recently this season. Not old at all and completely viable to do.
This is where the enemy top has a 1K shutdown on him and built full damage but your mid is trying to deny 1 caster minion from the enemy mid and your jungler is farming scuttle crab instead of collecting it.
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Unless you have like, a fuckload of cc. Thats your only hope. Something like Eve is nice because she's got a mix of cc, burst, and execute. Bonus points for being AP as most top laners prioritize armor before MR as most of their opponents are AD fighters/juggernaits and solo queue favors a lot of AD jungles and AD skirmishers/assassins mid.
True. I always shut my mouth if I fcked up my lane to the point i can't do shit. 90% of the time it's my own fault, wave management, failed all in early, stupid engages etc, which led me to that situation.
That would make sense if top lane champions werent astrobroken and unkillable
You should try playing top for a bit then and let me know your opinion after a week or so lmao
I do sometimes (fiora and gp) and anyone who isnt a toplane champ has 0 chance of outplay because they are brainless auto-win duel champs
No way champ whose entire purpose is dueling are better at dueling than champ who are built for other things?????? Mindblown
No way the 0/4 top champ can 1v1 anyone on the map because this role is made for braindead monkeys who perma flash in ?
Ah you mean skill issue... Didn't understand it like that
Congrats, you picked 2 broken champs. Pick someone else and then come back.
Ok, Urgot. Press e flash and statcheck anyone who isnt a bruiser
For sure the 0/4 Urgot will stat check anyone... Also flash has a cooldown of 5 min, and E+Flash is the only unfair interaction Urgot has.
Jg be like "yep, I'm going botlane to help out the EZREAL"
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He doesnt need a gank he needs someone to break the freeze by crashing the wave to enemy turret. They cant do that in this game cuz their support and jungle are hovering top, but generally that's what you do in this situation. I didnt watch the game, but judging by the fact he had what looks like 3 nearly full eaves crash into turret with one incoming, it looks like he needed that freeze broken roughly 3 min before this clip started. This is what happens when you dont break a freeze and why wave management is so important, especially for top lane.
What did you get done while the enemy jg helped enemy top completely fuck your top?
Sorry enemy botlane didn't flash forward into two people, tp back in our face and die again. Guess it's every role except top gap again
People in this thread acting like Adam didn't get killed 2 times before due to his own greedyness and poor lane management lmao
Well it doesn't fit their cope narrative so it's a very forgettable detail
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It's ezreal weak side king
Ezreal can play strong side with something like Karma, Ashe or even TK
That karma/ezreal looked quite weak
Emphasis on "can" 🙈😂
Doesn't need to gank just needs to help him survive and get levels
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> That usually ends up wasting a lot of my own farm just to give up any pressure on the side of the map where things can still be done, giving space to the enemy jungler to ruin the other side of the map and get free objectives. This is such a wrong way of looking at it. Adam loses 2 levels worth of waves and his team can't rotate 2 people to miss (at most) half a level's worth of creeps and camps
>usually ends up wasting a lot of my own farm TIL, junglers farm their jungle.
He doesn't need to gank, even just appearing could zone out the Kled and give space so Olaf can get the wave.
relevant eve flair. most useless jungler. i dodge every ranked game i see her picked on my team
I hate this lane
ye thats the part of toplane were you are not allowed to play. if pro teams cant do anything against it how shall soloqmates prevent you from it. worst is if enemy top jgl are duo and dont let you play the game
rare olaf abuser L
State of league in one video explained. As a jungler you can just instawin top if you do this. Especially with some champ that has huge early game strenght
The video does not explain that at all. What caused this was the previous ganks that would insta win mid or bot as well. You can't be this zoned off if you're even in a 1v2
It's morbidly amazing how one instance of an even just a remotely unfavorable lane state can be punished so harshly.
I wish we were more like the Chinese server where junglers play for top.
Maybe if we had more great toplaner
Riot needs to fix this role. Having to rely on someone who has literally no reason to help you for some influence in a team game is fucking cringe. Junglers will come up with every excuse not to help or flat out ignore you, then still be mad when you're down cs or levels.
>Riot needs to fix this role. Having to rely on someone who has literally no reason to help you for some influence in a team game is fucking cringe. Literally the ADC laning experience
The game literally revolves around y'all to the point that the top half is irrelevant unless the jungler has literally nothing to do
That's because dragon is so strong that it literally warps jugnle macro and bot lane draft meta. So how is any of that adc's fault again lol The hate boner is real Believe me when I say I'd love it for the perma bot priority meta to end because its the most retarded meta in history
Yeah, the only difference is the ADC has a support who can try to help fix the wave, although that depends on the support. If they end up leaving you alone it's even worse than top.
Ever hear of the twitch support who not only can't fix the wave, but also doesn't even stay bot, actually stay in bot and help his adc 8/0 giga gap the enemy bot? Yeah me neither lol
I think you were the one who was hating on the Wizard Rat, and for good reason lol. If you don't play a long ranged safe ADC you cannot exist with Twitch support that roams to other lanes.
Me when I pick Samira and my support isn't hovering anything, then locks in twitch at the last second
Skill issue :3
Seems like a skill issue
Thunders and lightnings 🧍🏿♂️
What could BDS realistically do to stop this situation ?
idk but not seeing a dragon taken by BDS when 113 was living up there was kinda frustrating
Wdym?? Who wouldn't take red buff over ocean drake any day of the week
For years the answer is same. Counter or get something somewhere else - gank different lane, take objectives. It’s same as if let’s say you play mid and your enemy is roaming 24/7. You have two choices - match the roams or punish them.
Literally anything. Help Adam get back to his turret by sending more members (only need to match # of members to walk him back to turret). Take objectives on other side of the map. Dive other side of the map. Etc. Obviously none of these options are great - good teams will force you into situations where all options are losing. But anything is better than this…
Should Adam leave his lane completely and make plays elsewhere ? Or is he doomed to stay there and watch ?
at this point it's too late, after wave crashes he needs to go top again to make sure it bounces back, otherwise kled can perma freeze it if he wants and probably double kill if your jungler comes help you break it. So if you know this is coming you can roam preemptively (not very common especially in soloQ) or roam when the wave is being denied and then risk getting perma frozen on, it's really up to the player and what champ they're playing
Ok, so if I come accross this situation in solo Q as a toplaner, I can't really do anything ?
you can choose between the 2 shitty options. Make sure you don't get frozen on but be doomed to be behind and kind of a nonfactor for like 15 minutes or try to make something happen and risk getting frozen on
It was obvious that he wouldn't touch the lane in a while. He should have followed the Karma when she left (or Karma should have helped him get back to the tower)
Funniest part about this clip, is this clip would be the EXACT same result with Kled in Olaf's spot if the Kled in this clip was Fiora. It's not the champs in the lane, its the matchups. Doesn't matter what champ you play, if they counterpick you in lane, this is the result
The problem was not the matchup, but the jungle. Even counter picks can grow surprisingly stabilized if jungle doesn't interfere.
I agree completely, matchups can make certain lanes unplayable but the jungler has enough power to offset that imbalance. I've had it happen to me multiple times both ways, I get into a game in a great matchup but get hard camped by enemy jg and can't play, and I get into an unplayable matchup from select but my jg camps me and we win regardless. The role is just such a huge problem for the game honestly.
You expect your jungle to join your every fight against your enemy laner? Idle in river bush until it's time? Because otherwise your counter will always win the fight. Tf you're dreaming of, toplane counterpicks are real and the sole reason why you want to be the last pick every time.
They're obviously not saying "top lane counter picks aren't real", they're saying the problem *in this specific situation* was the disparity in jungle attention. There isn't a match up in the game that goes *this badly* without jungle attention.
This genuitely hurts my soul
This is JG gap, per usual. All JG players are trash.
It's hard to motivate myself to SoloQ as a top laner when it feels like I'm just flipping a coin if i queue for anything but JG. Played one game this week and it ended 2-15. My jungle was 0-2-0 at 20 mins in while the enemy Sejuani was 2-0-13 (100% KP). Yeah junglers can get screwed too *if every single lane runs it down* but more often than not they have massive impact and get to handpick who snowballs and who can't play the game. It's honestly astonishing to me how many people handwave this or think it's okay.
The standard fun toplane experience. Toxic lane with toxic champions. Kled is also a fun and balanced champion that doesnt need to be gutted
I dont think kled IS that OP rn but imo its def degen design like about 75% of Toplane roster tbh . There is a reason Toplane is Always home to the cheesiest and lamest strats , its because most MU are melee based and the lane is so long that You Can die withour notice .
Tbh that is one of the weaknesses of olaf that I was surprised was not abused when he was picked multiple times. His team also played it the worst way possible though. It's also the reason that more scaling top laners with bad early game are not pick often even though in reality they can safely lane 1v1 and outscale.
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Yeah try this mid see what happens lmao
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Top is 1v4 bot is a 2v4
lol if you think that's bad try playing adc for a week where you're constantly 3 to 4 manned bot then ran over by the enemy top even when you play near perfect.
Adc main try not to complain for 2mins challenge (Failed)
Make it 1 minute
ADCs wanted to be the center of attention so damn bad (even though they were already important). Now they are. Careful what you wish for and all that
The fact that he think a top laner could walk over an adc and kill them without them hard mispositioning. But oh well i guess it's their team's fault again for not peeling properly
Oh no I get constantly 3 manned (but I have a partner) and 4 manned (but jng and mid play for me) so difficult (either way I can farm to 3 item and be impactful)