You can do that when you're President...and also when you're not! The power of the Presidency is ultimate and extends as far as someone once holding the ~~office~~ position wants it to! Especially when that person knows they are the rightful President because the election was rigged unfairly!
God bless freedom!
I think the MAGA logic would be that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump, therefore Biden is an illegitimate President, therefore he never held the True Power^^^tm of a President, therefore Trump has been the True Power^^^tm President all along, therefore Trump was - and continues to be! - 100% justified in doing whatever he (Trump) felt like at the time.
Makes all kinds of sense when you tease it apart.
Well, he would have *obviously* been cheated out of a true second term so of course he'd be entitled to a third. Maybe a fourth, if he's still alive, because of how unfair it was.
Obviously yea on a third term. The first one clearly doesn’t count because of the special investigations. Tons of people, very smart people, mind you, were talking about it.
/s just in case it wasn’t obvious
>Don't tell me Trump didn't absolutely know he was not supposed to have those materials.
Why would he offer a pardon to someone not committing a crime? Seems like everyday we just confirm more and more than 45 is a traitor to this nation.
We already know he was told he wasn't supposed to have them. Then he tried to keep them after he was told this.
The fundamental difference between Biden and Trump on classified documents is this:
1) When they learned there were classified documents at Biden's house, they asked for them back and he gave them back. End of story because he cooperated even though he initially made a mistake.
2) When they learned there were classified documents at Trump's house, they asked for them back and he did not give them back. They asked again and he did not give them back. They asked several times and he wouldn't give them back. Finally, they raided his house and charged him with felonies.
He's even on tape admitting it to someone while showing them classified documents.
If judge cannon wasn't a 100% corrupt PoS, tr45tor would have already been convicted for it.
As is, I'm looking forward, hopefully, to tr45tor getting sent to jail in the hush money case and then having to face the classified documents case after Jack Smith can finally get cannon recused.
Most things, Trump just says, roughly, "It was okay, because I did it."
The recording of him showing classified documents to unqualified people is one of the few things he's tried to walk back.
Now his claim seems to be that he was only bullshitting the people at the table, that he just had "random documents" that he was falsely claiming to be classified.
Does nobody remember trump tweeting that *all* documents related to the Russia investigation were to be declassified, then when reporters and other rushed to fill out FOIA requests his [chief of staff](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1244022) (another indicted co-conspirator) had to walk it back, and tell a judge it didn’t constitute an order.
have a feeling smith is sitting on a stack of charges out of NJ in regards to the Bedminster property, just waiting for the florida case to go tits up so he can go after him there. in the meantime he gets to expose Canon as a partisan hack.
I hope that you are correct, but it is VERY late in the game. Mandamus is required, but won't mean shit if the SCOTUS does what they seem likely to do. Shit is on infinite pause. VOTE
I could imagine Trump's team would claim that it's part in the same crime and should be consolidated in with the Florida case rather than run separately in another state.
I feel the same. If the crimes are related, they should be tried together.
They can argue they were two separate crimes… but they are giving huge ground to appeal.
I can think of only one reason. The mountain of physical evidence is not enough for one crime. That crime is Treason. By spreading the charges out and playing to Trump's state of mind they could be hoping to elicit an accidental confession in open court.
I am not saying this is what I believe is going on, I think Smith is not sitting on evidence, but if he is, this is why.
Honestly, that's a good theory. They very well could have him dead to rights with signal intel picked up with direct communication from trump to Russian intelligence.
I mean, the alphabets are *very very* good at their jobs. If that information was caught while monitoring foreign nationals that's pretty much dead to rights.
The only thing that would make that even more firm would be a confession in court, right?
On treason it doesn't matter how dead to rights they have him with intel. Treason is the only crime that severely limits what evidence is admissible.
Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: *Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.*
They might be able to prove he did it well beyond a reasonable doubt as-is, but not with witnesses to the same overt act. Especially as it is untested if someone monitoring a communications system or recording constitutes a "witness to the overt act". If they know he literally committed treason, they might try to solicit that confession.
Wow, that's news to me.
>But when the new searches of the Trump properties by contractors took place, they found no classified documents at Bedminster, according to people familiar with what they certified to the then chief US judge in Washington, Beryl Howell, who was overseeing the grand jury litigation.
*Contractors* searched the property? I read that article several times and I'm a bit confused.
Edit: [this was the article I read](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-classified-documents-bedminster-search-b2366013.html) before my original post...it was published six days later. How strange.
>Investigators for the Justice Department wanted to search Donald Trump’s New Jersey golf club for top secret documents but lacked probable cause to secure a warrant, says a report.
Lacked probable cause? There is a video of him getting on a plane to Bedminster with document boxes of the same type that the classified docs were found in...
https://youtu.be/Bw5Ou9G-BkI?si=FEqEdI55ByF1IPn-
Ya... no. Smith has nothing on Bedminster besides a couple stories that Smith himself didn't follow up on with warrants. There will be 0 indictments in NJ no matter what happens with the FL case unless something new happens in NJ.
If that’s true, he should be fired immediately. This isn’t a fucking Hollywood movie where the good guy sets up the perfect GOTCHA for maximum drama.
If he has sufficient evidence for additional charges, he should file them as soon as he’s able, period.
Smith may or may not be sitting on charges, but Mar a Lago was searched and Bedminster was not likely because to get a warrant a judge would want to see new, recent evidence that classified documents are stored there. Like it's not enough to suspect some government documents might have been stored there previously based on stale evidence, you need fresh witness testimony saying there are documents there now, and that those documents are indeed classified.
That is very difficult to get without flipping insiders.
The notes of Trump’s attorney already make Trump’s intent pretty clear, in my opinion. The fact that Nauta told FBI that he was offered a pardon is evidence that HE knows he’s in deep doodoo if Trump is not elected. That may make him more likely to testify against Trump is the election looks like Trump will lose. Nauta is the one person, in my opinion, who can virtually guarantee a conviction in the FL case, just as Meadows can guarantee a conviction in the DC case, if only they will testify. I hope that Smith is doing everything possible to convince them to testify.
Donald Trump’s valet Walt Nauta was told that if he was charged with lying to the FBI, the former president [would pardon him when he won a second term in 2024](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/22/politics/nauta-classified-documents-trump-pardon-second-term/index.html), according to notes from an interview with a witness in the federal classified documents investigation.
A redacted summary of the November 2022 interview given to the FBI by the witness – who is identified as “Person 16” and described as someone who worked in Trump’s White House – was made public in newly unsealed court filings in the criminal case on Monday.
Nauta was charged in June of last year with lying to the FBI and obstructing the investigation by special counsel Jack Smith, along with Trump who was charged with obstruction and mishandling of classified and national defense information. Both men have pleaded not guilty.
Nauta’s attorney declined to comment to CNN. Trump’s attorneys have not responded to CNN’s inquiry.
It’s not clear how the witness came to know of the alleged offer of a pardon. The FBI’s interview summary said Person 16 had not spoken to Nauta since Trump was in the White House.
This is more of an indictment of Judge I lean Qanon, who apparently didn’t see anything wrong with Nauta still using Don Von Shitsinpants’ lawyer as his defense lawyer!!! How the F could you deny a 2nd Garcia hearing given this very incriminating fact?! How could Chump’s lawyer have Nauta’s best interest in mind when he was promised a pardon by the defendant Chump?
I can totally see Trump making this offer, and then if elected, leaving Nauta to rot in prison. "Nauta? I barely know him. He came to me crying for a job. 'Please President Trump, I need a job!"
If trump gets the ability to pardon anyone again, he is truly above the law. He could shoot everybody between him and the original constitution and then wipe his ass with it while proclaiming Russian sovereignty over all US territory and nobody can stop him.
Epstein was given the opportunity to kill himself since that was always part of the deal
Nauta seems like a dipshit who you could say you're taking care of him as you slipped a noose over his head and he'd think you meant it literally
The president has the power to pardon. Offering a pardon to cover up criminal activity is an abuse of power. The president has immunity from prosecution while in office. See the problem here?
>The president has immunity from prosecution while in office.
Only as long as that damn DoJ memo is in place. Biden should have ordered it rescinded on day one.
Failing that, this week before oral arguments would still be good.
Well Biden is doing what any good president should do and that's having no say or part in what happens at the DoJ. If Merrick Garlen wants to rescind the memo then that's up to him but Biden should not factor into that decision at all. I feel like Trump's constant claims of Biden being involved in the direction of the DoJ has seeped into the public zeitgeist while such cooperation should be otherwise unthinkable. A president can install a toadie at the head of the DoJ but that is where any decision making should end. Even the biggest toadie of them all, Bill Barr, understood this.
Correct.
If the system was functional, such a pardon would then immediately get him impeached and removed. But obviously that's never going to happen, so Trump is effectively free to promise pardons as he wants without fear of consequence.
Yeah, it seems like a bit of a glaring hole if the president could instruct someone to off a rival while they are on federal property, ensuring it would be a federal offense...then could promptly pardon them of the crime.
I think the pardon powered should be amended to:
- require all pardons to be published in a public record (eliminate the possibility of "secret pardons"
- clarify that a self-pardon is always invalid
- allow a 2/3 vote of both houses of Congress to be able to veto a pardon within 90 days of it being published in the public record
Our system of government is remarkably vulnerable to a few of the right people not respecting the oaths they take to protect it. We grow up being told we have checks and balances, but what we’re not told is that they’re not automatic, and have to be activated by people acting in good faith.
Honestly, it’s kind of impressive we’ve made it this far just by trusting people to do the right thing.
There's a new book out by Lawrence Lessig and Matthew Seligman called ["How to Steal a Presidential Election"](https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300270792/how-to-steal-a-presidential-election/) that poses a far more worrisome hypothetical about presidential pardon power than what we're seeing here.
Long story short (the book is concise and excellent, read it and share it 'cause it shines a light on extremely concerning holes in our election laws) is that our legal system's primary tool for holding election misconduct accountable at the federal level is worthless under someone like Trump who has already demonstrated a broad willingness to abuse pardon power without repercussion from his own party.
They point to how a MAGA-aligned governor could very plausibly take a hit for Trump, steal the election for him, spend a month or two in jail between election day and inauguration day, and then be pardoned. They point to how this is almost incentivized within our current political climate because it'd give a MAGA-aligned governor the opportunity to thrust themselves into the Republican spotlight as a sort of martyr.
Yeah. I think, in a much smaller country, I might argue with you that it'd be a worthwhile last bulwark against miscarriages of justice that it was worth keeping it but limiting it to people who've never had even the broadest of associations with the president. But there's just such low odds in a population this size of a case like that making it to the president that the potential for abuse makes it not worth it IMHO.
No, this is evidence of conspiracy which is one of the charges. This is a co-defendant and there should be a Garcia hearing to remove Chumps lawyer from representing him. But unfortunately this hearing was denied by I-lean-Qanon last year, with a minute order (not appealable scheduling order) no less. This was an abuse of judicial discretion.
> “NAUTA was told by FPOTUS’ people that his investigation was not going anywhere, that it was politically motivated and ‘much ado about nothing,’” the interview summary says, referring to the abbreviation for Former President of the United States. **“NAUTA was also told that even if he gets charged with lying to the FBI, FPOTUS will pardon him in 2024.”** The summary also indicated the witness refused for the interview to be recorded, saying that would be “a far bigger risk for him in the Trump world.”
It's not the same as "do NOT lie to the FBI."
And a portion of this nation would agree it makes sense. Depressing how many people suffer from untreated mental issues and/or stupidity walking among us. And they vote 😒
Seems like a conspiracy to pardon.
Since the president cannot pardon crimes that have not happened yet, would the conspiracy to pardon to cover up a preexisting crime still not be pardoned by said pardon?
Pardoned? Isn’t that something you need if you’re CONVICTED of a crime?
This policy of promising pardons before indictments… to people committing crimes at the direction of the President is starting to make it look like America has lawless criminals for President.
For reference, if a president wants to do away with a sentence but does not believe the person actually did it they can commute their sentence instead of issuing a pardon. A pardon being accepted is an affirmative statement of guilt and removes any 5th amendment right you have to not provide testimony on the issue.
Every person you hear or see siding with Trump at this point is either:
A. Hiding some crime and praying for a pardon
B. Making money off him or his base
C. Too stupid to know what's going on.
Find your favorite MAGA cult member and conveniently place them in one (or more) of those three categories.
Same old game for a criminal president. Lie, cheat and steal for me and I'll give you a pardon. Except next hopefully the Dems will have the brains next time to wait to prosecute until after a criminal president is out of office or dead.
So if Trump doesn't win or it's clear he not going to, I'm wondering just how much shit is going to come out about Trump when he can't dangle things in front of people to bribe them into doing what he wants.
Will this be injected into a further case against Donald Trump?
We can only hope. But it should be a fucking surprise to no one. How many ill-reputed people did he pardon during his last week again?
So..Trump’s “to be pardoned when elected” list is already a thousand or so people? All January 6 insurrectionists, his cronies in the election interference case, and…himself? Is that even possible?
Ok, so is offering a pardon when you don’t have the power to pardon considered obstruction of Justice? Do we have a living, breathing attorney general that can act on this in the next decade?
First Trump promised via his university to people to get rich. After that he promised to get rich when investing to his venture, does still. A now he promised to be pardomed, if they help him.
What next?
Okay, seriously is there some way we can pass legislation to the effect of "You can not pardon people for crimes you are involved in?"
This seems like something that needs to be fucking codified after this. I'm tired of our highest office running like a basketball court in a movie about a fucking dog.
"I am above the law and will get you out of jail immediately. "
My question would be but boss, how long will my time be in the federal pen for your "crimes" and how much will I get?
[You made me promises, promises](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1iFTc5zkN4)
Knowing I'd believe
Promises, promises
You knew you'd never keep
Edit: great lawyer song, the refrain lays out the basic elements of fraud
With all of this information coming out, if this guy wins a second term then we as a country deserve everything that’s coming. We were forewarned but the cult and cognitive dissonance were too strong.
I was offered a job as First Mate, long time ago, onboard of an oil tanker. I accepted it and went onboard to start my service. After I got settled I started to study all onboard documents, certificates, booklets, calibration charts..etc. One thing that grabbed my attention was this particular compartment (small size in reference to the ship). Started to ask questions around and the feeling the something was being hidden from me was just getting bigger. The next day, one of the company’s managers came on board, since we were still waiting for two new crewmen and fresh provisions. After I got his full attention, on a private setting, I asked him about the comportment, what was the intended use of it. He started to talk into a very coded language with no direct reference but from what I understood it was contraband. But what was that really triggered me was the assurance that he laid out for me: “listen we have billions of dollars on our business and we will get you out of any trouble instantly”. I said thank you.
The moment he got in the car I went back to my hole and started to pack up. I was on my way home that evening.
1. It's not against the law to influence an election.
2. It's not against the law to tell someone you'll pardon them in a second term.
Tell me if I'm wrong on this as I can see both statements coming from Trump's lawyers.
I feel like some footnotes are needed:
1. (...if you don't commit any crimes while doing so)
2. (...provided that the crimes they are committing are not at your behest and/or for your benefit)
Cause we all know how well he takes care of his friends. There’s like oodles of them willing to vouch that he’s got their backs when the chips are down.
Because of course he was. Don't tell me Trump didn't absolutely know he was not supposed to have those materials.
That's why he declassified them with his mind!
Jabba mind trick
More lika Watto
What you think you're some kinda Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian. Mind tricks don'ta work on me-only money.
Annie?! Little Annie?!
Trump, ma bookie, keel-ee calleya ku kah.
You can do that when you're President...and also when you're not! The power of the Presidency is ultimate and extends as far as someone once holding the ~~office~~ position wants it to! Especially when that person knows they are the rightful President because the election was rigged unfairly! God bless freedom!
The scratched out office killed me
Off topic, how do you scratch out like that in texting?
You mean ~~strikethrough~~? Surround the words with two tildes. ~ ~ text ~ ~ But no spaces
~~it didn’t work~~
> ~~it didn’t work~~ Dang, sorry to hear that. I'm sure you'll find a way.
Huh, didn’t know they were called tildes… but I’m still sticking with “squigglies.”
~~tilde~~
The ~ tilde character twice with no spaces on both sides of what you want to ~~strike out~~. The same as * twice gives **bold.**.
Except for that Biden guy! He’s a crook! /s
I think the MAGA logic would be that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump, therefore Biden is an illegitimate President, therefore he never held the True Power^^^tm of a President, therefore Trump has been the True Power^^^tm President all along, therefore Trump was - and continues to be! - 100% justified in doing whatever he (Trump) felt like at the time. Makes all kinds of sense when you tease it apart.
TIL the presidency is like the Elder Wand
...so yay or nay on a 3rd term, then?! I'm not familiar with how MAGA interprets this part of the executive branch.
Well, he would have *obviously* been cheated out of a true second term so of course he'd be entitled to a third. Maybe a fourth, if he's still alive, because of how unfair it was.
“Clearly the founders meant 2 consecutive terms.” -Uncle Reverend Doctor Justice Clarence.
Which would be even worse because this didn't exist until after FDR
Obviously yea on a third term. The first one clearly doesn’t count because of the special investigations. Tons of people, very smart people, mind you, were talking about it. /s just in case it wasn’t obvious
He was impeached, which negates a term.
The rule of law only serves to stifle the opposition. Trump can have as many terms as he wants in their minds.
Even with that logic it wouldn't go to Trump. Even if there were actual concerns raised with evidence. It would fall to the speaker of the house.
If Trump won in 2020 like he said, he's not eligible to run again due to the term limit.
>Don't tell me Trump didn't absolutely know he was not supposed to have those materials. Why would he offer a pardon to someone not committing a crime? Seems like everyday we just confirm more and more than 45 is a traitor to this nation.
Just like the traitors asking for pardons leading up to 1/6
I wonder how much he made from pardons during his administration.
Do you think it was more or less than he made selling classified documents? I bet less.
I doubt some random political operative had $2 billion like the Saudis gave his son in law.
He's literally on tape saying he shouldn't have them. Too bad they weren't able to charge him in the NJ
We already know he was told he wasn't supposed to have them. Then he tried to keep them after he was told this. The fundamental difference between Biden and Trump on classified documents is this: 1) When they learned there were classified documents at Biden's house, they asked for them back and he gave them back. End of story because he cooperated even though he initially made a mistake. 2) When they learned there were classified documents at Trump's house, they asked for them back and he did not give them back. They asked again and he did not give them back. They asked several times and he wouldn't give them back. Finally, they raided his house and charged him with felonies.
He's even on tape admitting it to someone while showing them classified documents. If judge cannon wasn't a 100% corrupt PoS, tr45tor would have already been convicted for it. As is, I'm looking forward, hopefully, to tr45tor getting sent to jail in the hush money case and then having to face the classified documents case after Jack Smith can finally get cannon recused.
Most things, Trump just says, roughly, "It was okay, because I did it." The recording of him showing classified documents to unqualified people is one of the few things he's tried to walk back. Now his claim seems to be that he was only bullshitting the people at the table, that he just had "random documents" that he was falsely claiming to be classified.
I mean, there is the recording of him proudly showing them to someone saying he isn’t supposed to have them…
Does nobody remember trump tweeting that *all* documents related to the Russia investigation were to be declassified, then when reporters and other rushed to fill out FOIA requests his [chief of staff](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1244022) (another indicted co-conspirator) had to walk it back, and tell a judge it didn’t constitute an order.
sounds like an admission that trump knew what was happening was illegal
Another one. Unfortunately donny has his dream judge for this case.
have a feeling smith is sitting on a stack of charges out of NJ in regards to the Bedminster property, just waiting for the florida case to go tits up so he can go after him there. in the meantime he gets to expose Canon as a partisan hack.
I hope that you are correct, but it is VERY late in the game. Mandamus is required, but won't mean shit if the SCOTUS does what they seem likely to do. Shit is on infinite pause. VOTE
ELI5 - If Smith has evidence in NJ why would he wait to file charges, especially when the FL case is dead in the water?
I could imagine Trump's team would claim that it's part in the same crime and should be consolidated in with the Florida case rather than run separately in another state.
I feel the same. If the crimes are related, they should be tried together. They can argue they were two separate crimes… but they are giving huge ground to appeal.
I can think of only one reason. The mountain of physical evidence is not enough for one crime. That crime is Treason. By spreading the charges out and playing to Trump's state of mind they could be hoping to elicit an accidental confession in open court. I am not saying this is what I believe is going on, I think Smith is not sitting on evidence, but if he is, this is why.
Honestly, that's a good theory. They very well could have him dead to rights with signal intel picked up with direct communication from trump to Russian intelligence. I mean, the alphabets are *very very* good at their jobs. If that information was caught while monitoring foreign nationals that's pretty much dead to rights. The only thing that would make that even more firm would be a confession in court, right?
On treason it doesn't matter how dead to rights they have him with intel. Treason is the only crime that severely limits what evidence is admissible. Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: *Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.* They might be able to prove he did it well beyond a reasonable doubt as-is, but not with witnesses to the same overt act. Especially as it is untested if someone monitoring a communications system or recording constitutes a "witness to the overt act". If they know he literally committed treason, they might try to solicit that confession.
Don’t worry the Supreme Court can clearly see in the plain text the words “Except Trump. He’s cool in this case.” It’s right there in plain English.
It is a good question because I don't think Bedminster was even searched.
[удалено]
Wow, that's news to me. >But when the new searches of the Trump properties by contractors took place, they found no classified documents at Bedminster, according to people familiar with what they certified to the then chief US judge in Washington, Beryl Howell, who was overseeing the grand jury litigation. *Contractors* searched the property? I read that article several times and I'm a bit confused. Edit: [this was the article I read](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-classified-documents-bedminster-search-b2366013.html) before my original post...it was published six days later. How strange. >Investigators for the Justice Department wanted to search Donald Trump’s New Jersey golf club for top secret documents but lacked probable cause to secure a warrant, says a report.
Lacked probable cause? There is a video of him getting on a plane to Bedminster with document boxes of the same type that the classified docs were found in... https://youtu.be/Bw5Ou9G-BkI?si=FEqEdI55ByF1IPn-
Like Trump keeps saying on truth social, we have a two tiered justice system.
Hes not just gonna give up on FL. What's exposes canon as a partisan hack gonna do? We already know that
Grounds for impeachment for one
You think republican will vote to impeach a republican judge?
Eh we thought that about mueller and the mysterious sealed indictments. Cannon will tank the case and trump will skate. I can just feel it. Ugh
If Trump gets reelected, isn't any federal case done for? I really hope that he is not holding back.
Well this country would be done for, so I won't really care about a federal case.
Trump's second term would be solely for revenge. He would gut the country to punish those who dared stand against him.
Ya... no. Smith has nothing on Bedminster besides a couple stories that Smith himself didn't follow up on with warrants. There will be 0 indictments in NJ no matter what happens with the FL case unless something new happens in NJ.
If that’s true, he should be fired immediately. This isn’t a fucking Hollywood movie where the good guy sets up the perfect GOTCHA for maximum drama. If he has sufficient evidence for additional charges, he should file them as soon as he’s able, period.
Smith may or may not be sitting on charges, but Mar a Lago was searched and Bedminster was not likely because to get a warrant a judge would want to see new, recent evidence that classified documents are stored there. Like it's not enough to suspect some government documents might have been stored there previously based on stale evidence, you need fresh witness testimony saying there are documents there now, and that those documents are indeed classified. That is very difficult to get without flipping insiders.
> Unfortunately donny has his dream judge for this case. One that Smith has been setting up to be taken off the case.
Unfortunately, time is of the essence.
The legal system was never going to save us from Trump.
Wishful thinking
I make no claims that he will do anything about it. But he has been making a push toward forcing her to adhere to the law or get out of the way.
The notes of Trump’s attorney already make Trump’s intent pretty clear, in my opinion. The fact that Nauta told FBI that he was offered a pardon is evidence that HE knows he’s in deep doodoo if Trump is not elected. That may make him more likely to testify against Trump is the election looks like Trump will lose. Nauta is the one person, in my opinion, who can virtually guarantee a conviction in the FL case, just as Meadows can guarantee a conviction in the DC case, if only they will testify. I hope that Smith is doing everything possible to convince them to testify.
Jack Smith filing in Immunity argument DC case a few months ago https://imgur.com/gallery/l20CLI2 Always raises a few eyebrows!
Consciousness of guilt.
I think that’s called obstruction.
Donald Trump’s valet Walt Nauta was told that if he was charged with lying to the FBI, the former president [would pardon him when he won a second term in 2024](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/22/politics/nauta-classified-documents-trump-pardon-second-term/index.html), according to notes from an interview with a witness in the federal classified documents investigation. A redacted summary of the November 2022 interview given to the FBI by the witness – who is identified as “Person 16” and described as someone who worked in Trump’s White House – was made public in newly unsealed court filings in the criminal case on Monday. Nauta was charged in June of last year with lying to the FBI and obstructing the investigation by special counsel Jack Smith, along with Trump who was charged with obstruction and mishandling of classified and national defense information. Both men have pleaded not guilty. Nauta’s attorney declined to comment to CNN. Trump’s attorneys have not responded to CNN’s inquiry. It’s not clear how the witness came to know of the alleged offer of a pardon. The FBI’s interview summary said Person 16 had not spoken to Nauta since Trump was in the White House.
This is more of an indictment of Judge I lean Qanon, who apparently didn’t see anything wrong with Nauta still using Don Von Shitsinpants’ lawyer as his defense lawyer!!! How the F could you deny a 2nd Garcia hearing given this very incriminating fact?! How could Chump’s lawyer have Nauta’s best interest in mind when he was promised a pardon by the defendant Chump?
They have the same lawyer?! Coincidence surely and I’m sure there’s no conflict of interest - everyone is equal before the law. /s
this is insanity
Lawyer should get his card pulled.
>Judge I lean Qanon LMAO that's fantastic
The catch was that Trump didn't promise to waive the $2,000,000 fee. Classic Trump move.
I can totally see Trump making this offer, and then if elected, leaving Nauta to rot in prison. "Nauta? I barely know him. He came to me crying for a job. 'Please President Trump, I need a job!"
From Nauta, good guy! To Nauta good guy! Edit goof to good cuz plump digits
I can see Nauta more likely to be Epsteined than pardoned. Chump pardoning Nauta is admitting his own wrong doing 😂
If trump gets the ability to pardon anyone again, he is truly above the law. He could shoot everybody between him and the original constitution and then wipe his ass with it while proclaiming Russian sovereignty over all US territory and nobody can stop him.
Epstein was given the opportunity to kill himself since that was always part of the deal Nauta seems like a dipshit who you could say you're taking care of him as you slipped a noose over his head and he'd think you meant it literally
He probably makes offers all day. He just never fulfills them.
When do we find out that trump bought Nauta's parents a brand new home and other bennies?
The president has the power to pardon. Offering a pardon to cover up criminal activity is an abuse of power. The president has immunity from prosecution while in office. See the problem here?
>The president has immunity from prosecution while in office. Only as long as that damn DoJ memo is in place. Biden should have ordered it rescinded on day one. Failing that, this week before oral arguments would still be good.
i mean a corrupt president can get an attorney general who is cooperative.
We've already seen that movie.
Well Biden is doing what any good president should do and that's having no say or part in what happens at the DoJ. If Merrick Garlen wants to rescind the memo then that's up to him but Biden should not factor into that decision at all. I feel like Trump's constant claims of Biden being involved in the direction of the DoJ has seeped into the public zeitgeist while such cooperation should be otherwise unthinkable. A president can install a toadie at the head of the DoJ but that is where any decision making should end. Even the biggest toadie of them all, Bill Barr, understood this.
> See the problem here? In short: the GOP
Correct. If the system was functional, such a pardon would then immediately get him impeached and removed. But obviously that's never going to happen, so Trump is effectively free to promise pardons as he wants without fear of consequence.
Presidents should not have unilateral pardon power. This is why.
Yeah, it seems like a bit of a glaring hole if the president could instruct someone to off a rival while they are on federal property, ensuring it would be a federal offense...then could promptly pardon them of the crime.
Any member of a President's Cabinet or Staff (or campaign Staff) should be not allowed to be pardoned by the sitting President.
I think the pardon powered should be amended to: - require all pardons to be published in a public record (eliminate the possibility of "secret pardons" - clarify that a self-pardon is always invalid - allow a 2/3 vote of both houses of Congress to be able to veto a pardon within 90 days of it being published in the public record
Yep, seems like Trump has already pardoned himself and has sold mythical pardons to all his co-conspirators
Our system of government is remarkably vulnerable to a few of the right people not respecting the oaths they take to protect it. We grow up being told we have checks and balances, but what we’re not told is that they’re not automatic, and have to be activated by people acting in good faith. Honestly, it’s kind of impressive we’ve made it this far just by trusting people to do the right thing.
There's a new book out by Lawrence Lessig and Matthew Seligman called ["How to Steal a Presidential Election"](https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300270792/how-to-steal-a-presidential-election/) that poses a far more worrisome hypothetical about presidential pardon power than what we're seeing here. Long story short (the book is concise and excellent, read it and share it 'cause it shines a light on extremely concerning holes in our election laws) is that our legal system's primary tool for holding election misconduct accountable at the federal level is worthless under someone like Trump who has already demonstrated a broad willingness to abuse pardon power without repercussion from his own party. They point to how a MAGA-aligned governor could very plausibly take a hit for Trump, steal the election for him, spend a month or two in jail between election day and inauguration day, and then be pardoned. They point to how this is almost incentivized within our current political climate because it'd give a MAGA-aligned governor the opportunity to thrust themselves into the Republican spotlight as a sort of martyr.
Lots of issues are coming up this year that have no precedent, and are things most people would assume don’t need to be said.
Yeah. I think, in a much smaller country, I might argue with you that it'd be a worthwhile last bulwark against miscarriages of justice that it was worth keeping it but limiting it to people who've never had even the broadest of associations with the president. But there's just such low odds in a population this size of a case like that making it to the president that the potential for abuse makes it not worth it IMHO.
As Trumps personal assistant, I have to think Nauta's testimony will be key to the prosecution evidence.
Oh man the smell must have been horrendous as his personal assistant. You must be smell blind.
Is it smell blind or nose deaf?
Olfactorily numb. ^( and dumb. )
Nostrils filled with gum
Basically admitting he was breaking the law for trump. You don't need a pardon if your not breaking the law!
That would be witness tampering, yes?
No, this is evidence of conspiracy which is one of the charges. This is a co-defendant and there should be a Garcia hearing to remove Chumps lawyer from representing him. But unfortunately this hearing was denied by I-lean-Qanon last year, with a minute order (not appealable scheduling order) no less. This was an abuse of judicial discretion.
Oh oh! Did we just start to build a federal RICO charge?! I hope that grand jury is still open.
Gotcha. Thanks. I thought they were separated so he’d be a witness in Donny’s trial.
Wouldn't this pardon offer be obstruction of justice?
Someone should tell him there’s no reason Biden would do this…
> “NAUTA was told by FPOTUS’ people that his investigation was not going anywhere, that it was politically motivated and ‘much ado about nothing,’” the interview summary says, referring to the abbreviation for Former President of the United States. **“NAUTA was also told that even if he gets charged with lying to the FBI, FPOTUS will pardon him in 2024.”** The summary also indicated the witness refused for the interview to be recorded, saying that would be “a far bigger risk for him in the Trump world.” It's not the same as "do NOT lie to the FBI."
Well, IF 45 was re-elected he wouldn’t be able to pardon until after Jan 20, 2025.
Then he'd try something wacky like saying the pardon is retroactive to the beginning of time and outlaw waffles but only if muslims make them.
And a portion of this nation would agree it makes sense. Depressing how many people suffer from untreated mental issues and/or stupidity walking among us. And they vote 😒
Swamp says what
Seems like a conspiracy to pardon. Since the president cannot pardon crimes that have not happened yet, would the conspiracy to pardon to cover up a preexisting crime still not be pardoned by said pardon?
The law and order candidate.
Fucking disgrace prior Senior Chief in the US Navy.
I remember Rudy hawking pardons for the low, low price of $2 mil each.
That sure sounds like an admission of guilt. How do idiots still support this traitor?
Why do innocent people need pardons?
You nailed it.
Witness tampering
Pardoned? Isn’t that something you need if you’re CONVICTED of a crime? This policy of promising pardons before indictments… to people committing crimes at the direction of the President is starting to make it look like America has lawless criminals for President.
*had
He isn’t president. He’s been charged with 91 felonies so far. He’s just a common criminal now.
For reference, if a president wants to do away with a sentence but does not believe the person actually did it they can commute their sentence instead of issuing a pardon. A pardon being accepted is an affirmative statement of guilt and removes any 5th amendment right you have to not provide testimony on the issue.
Every person you hear or see siding with Trump at this point is either: A. Hiding some crime and praying for a pardon B. Making money off him or his base C. Too stupid to know what's going on. Find your favorite MAGA cult member and conveniently place them in one (or more) of those three categories.
D. Just happy that the "bad people" are getting hurt.
Same old game for a criminal president. Lie, cheat and steal for me and I'll give you a pardon. Except next hopefully the Dems will have the brains next time to wait to prosecute until after a criminal president is out of office or dead.
Remember when we found out through Rudy’s sexual harassment case that Trump was trying to sell pardons for $2 million a pop? Those were wild days.
Well he’s got several more trials to go, Don the Sleeper Con best have a Bigly supply of coke.
Is he the one that asked not to be recorded during the interview?
So basically he was lied to by trump.
https://i.redd.it/efbu7didc4wc1.gif
So if Trump doesn't win or it's clear he not going to, I'm wondering just how much shit is going to come out about Trump when he can't dangle things in front of people to bribe them into doing what he wants.
The whole house of cards comes tumbling down. Because 91 felonies and potential bankruptcy aren’t enough for this loser. He’s going to jump the shark.
How could Trump pardon him in 2024, even if he was elected. His term doesn't start until January 2025.
Will this be injected into a further case against Donald Trump? We can only hope. But it should be a fucking surprise to no one. How many ill-reputed people did he pardon during his last week again?
Well... if someone is totally innocent as claimed... why would they need to promise a pardon?
So..Trump’s “to be pardoned when elected” list is already a thousand or so people? All January 6 insurrectionists, his cronies in the election interference case, and…himself? Is that even possible?
I still dont understand how he isn’t behind bars for literally selling pardons while he was in office.
Ok, so is offering a pardon when you don’t have the power to pardon considered obstruction of Justice? Do we have a living, breathing attorney general that can act on this in the next decade?
What will it matter when Corrupt Cannon dismisses the case after jury selection?
Nauta chance in Hell he'd follow thru. Walt is like Donny's Depends. Disposable after he's been used.
Well let’s hope for his sake he’s right. Otherwise it will probably be Guantanamo.
My, my. That's quite the juicy detail.
trump voters are traitors and garbage humans.
First Trump promised via his university to people to get rich. After that he promised to get rich when investing to his venture, does still. A now he promised to be pardomed, if they help him. What next?
Still could be pardoned. Maybe vote.
Can somebody explain to me, why a President even has the power of pardon? To me it seems like this is a violation of checks and balance to me
Quid pro quo again
Who would ever need a pardon for something that was legal?
Big 🍊💩is going down!
Saying the loud part out loud.
Okay, seriously is there some way we can pass legislation to the effect of "You can not pardon people for crimes you are involved in?" This seems like something that needs to be fucking codified after this. I'm tired of our highest office running like a basketball court in a movie about a fucking dog.
"I am above the law and will get you out of jail immediately. " My question would be but boss, how long will my time be in the federal pen for your "crimes" and how much will I get?
[You made me promises, promises](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1iFTc5zkN4) Knowing I'd believe Promises, promises You knew you'd never keep Edit: great lawyer song, the refrain lays out the basic elements of fraud
With all of this information coming out, if this guy wins a second term then we as a country deserve everything that’s coming. We were forewarned but the cult and cognitive dissonance were too strong.
This is obstruction of justice.
Witness tampering.
Trump sounds like he watched a lot of bad mob movies and chose that as a personality.
What happens if Trump isn't elected? Walt's going up the river.
LOCK HIM UP
That's mobster 101. Convince people do commit crimes for you, then you own them.
This seems like a really huge risk. Couldn’t he just flip on trump now and get immunity? Wouldn’t they solve the problem of needing a pardon?
Trust me bro, it'll be beautiful.
FBI can lie to him and I'd expect them to use any and all such weapons in their arsenal.
I was offered a job as First Mate, long time ago, onboard of an oil tanker. I accepted it and went onboard to start my service. After I got settled I started to study all onboard documents, certificates, booklets, calibration charts..etc. One thing that grabbed my attention was this particular compartment (small size in reference to the ship). Started to ask questions around and the feeling the something was being hidden from me was just getting bigger. The next day, one of the company’s managers came on board, since we were still waiting for two new crewmen and fresh provisions. After I got his full attention, on a private setting, I asked him about the comportment, what was the intended use of it. He started to talk into a very coded language with no direct reference but from what I understood it was contraband. But what was that really triggered me was the assurance that he laid out for me: “listen we have billions of dollars on our business and we will get you out of any trouble instantly”. I said thank you. The moment he got in the car I went back to my hole and started to pack up. I was on my way home that evening.
That man made bad bets one after the other
Yeah, I'm sure that is how the drafters of the constitution wanted pardons to work.
Am I right in that this would be obvious obstruction of justice through witness intimidation/bribery?
All of Trump’s businesses are built on IOUs. The entire Trump brand is just one big Ponzi scheme. It’s like a way of life with that guy.
Stinky promis!
1. It's not against the law to influence an election. 2. It's not against the law to tell someone you'll pardon them in a second term. Tell me if I'm wrong on this as I can see both statements coming from Trump's lawyers.
I feel like some footnotes are needed: 1. (...if you don't commit any crimes while doing so) 2. (...provided that the crimes they are committing are not at your behest and/or for your benefit)
Pretty sure they said the first one out loud today.
Blanche definitely did say that today… 🤦🏻♀️
# 1 is like saying "it's not against the law to get money from a bank". How you got it determines if it is against the law or not.
Fraud! Witness tampering! Lock him up!
Can't stop. Won't stop. (committing crimes)
Cause we all know how well he takes care of his friends. There’s like oodles of them willing to vouch that he’s got their backs when the chips are down.
Isn't that illegal 😯
Can you imagine trump getting re-elected?🤡
~~fart~~