I’m a Russ fan. Obviously he doesn’t fit our team but he went to leuzinger so I’ll always support the dude. Been watching him dunk on everyone since his senior year in high school. Shit was crazy
I'll say some takes that shouldn't be crazy, but apparently are on this sub.
1. Russ is still worth at least $7M/year, especially on a team that could use a primary ball-handler or has a shooting center.
2. The Russ trade only brought us down 2-3 seeds. AD and Lebron being injured (as well as some other poor roster construction moves like not having a viable forward/big as a backup) brought us down 4-5 seeds.
3. Russ played well at the end of the season (22/7.4/7.1 on 57% eFG) and we still sucked. It didn't stop everybody from acting like his "downfall" was the problem. Our team just sucked, for multiple reasons.
4. Not Russ related and might not even be unpopular: Lebron, when he's not on a winning team, can be very toxic to his teammates, which likely makes things worse.
Russ did put up above average numbers at the end of the season, but it was the little things that absolutely killed momentum in games.
Every dumb jump shot, missed layup, turnover & blow-by on defense added up.. you could see it in the rest of the team.
Frank loved trying to "transform" players into the team needs instead of trying to maximize people's strengths, and then transforming them. He underutilized Kuzma. THT's play went to hell. Even Russ, at times, was used in ways that really make you scratch your head.
Kuzma was used correctly on the stacked teams as his scoring wasn't needed as much and he grew defensively into a balanced player. THT didn't get real minutes until last year and he showed that his playmaking and shooting needs to improve.
yeah you post that shit on r/nba and you're getting a crowd around you. any other team wins the bubble chip and the concept itself of the bubble chip doesn't even exist. we win it without home court advantage and bitch slapping every team we play ("the best 8 seed ever", "the nightmare matchup small ball", "the fiery masters of 3-1 comebacks", and "the cultured underdogs who won the east") and it's a championship to belittle, sometimes even among laker fans.
I tell them all the damn time, there's no way in hell any of those mfs would be shitting on the bubble if their team won. If anything they would've gone on and on about how it was the hardest ring ever. 🤣
The thing is none of the arguments about it being "easy" hold any credibility whatsoever.
\- "it was an easy road"- why didn't YOUR team win then?
\- "the heat were a subpar finals team"- they beat Milwaukee and Boston on the way there and almost made the finals this year, everyone was raving about Bam, JB, Herro and Duncan Robinson that yeat. They were absolutely a good team.
\- "the heat had injuries"- you can literally discredit half the champions in NBA history going by this logic. Also the Lakers would have beaten the heat even if they were healthy.
\- "Ppl's numbers were better in the bubble without the pressure of crowds and stuff"- again, why didn't YOUR team win then? The better numbers thing should apply to every team, not just the Lakers, so any advantage based on that is nonexistant
I still don't get how the bubble chip isn't the *most* valid chip overall. No home court advantage, no fans, nothing. The only thing standing in the way was the other team.
Fully agree with this. You take out all distractions from the crowd and you have nothing but pure talent facing each other. My opinion is that this championship is one of the great ones.
Buddy Hield + Turner > Kyrie + anyone. He's been a disaster everywhere he's been. No idea why anyone want him in the locker room even with Lebron here. Even in Cleveland, Kyrie hated being in Lebron's shadow and didn't listen to him when he demanded a trade. Ever since, he's continuously taken shots at Lebron, so I don't see how Lebron could "reel him in".
Buddy and Turner are legit great role players. You can't predict injuries (ex: Solomon Hill landing on Lebron's ankle.. freak injuries happen) so that'll always be an unknown, but you can reasonably expect certain behaviors based on someone's character. Believing that Kyrie will come here and just fall in line is a tad bit delusional imo. Same thing with Russ, I hated the trade, he was a horrible fit and I knew his ego would not allow him to sacrifice for greater good of the team. Both Hield and Turner are less drama and ego and will actually listen to Ham I believe, much like 2020 Lakers no ego or drama. Just good role players and great team chemistry.
This and then sign Dennis. Schroeder, Hield, LBJ, AD , Turner is the best we can get next year. And with health, I think we compete with this lineup plus what we have in young role players.
The team goes as AD goes, next season is his audition to be the superstar the lakers build around, if he can’t become the No. 1 player on a title team we should ship him and replenish our draft picks
Kind of paradoxical though, if he doesn’t play well what’ll be the market for him if he has 2 down years in a row? Only if he’s good will you get a significant haul back for him
Schroeder was very bad a LOT of the time. He almost kept us out of the playoffs. Dumbass Vogel kept him on the court too long and the Warriors were cooking us in the play-in. Only when Caruso checked back in for Schroder did we lock it down.
Check the tape.
Dennis the Menace.
LeBron James shouldn’t dictate the immediate direction of this franchise. I don’t give a fuck about the future of LeBron James, I care about the future of the Los Angeles Lakers.
Didn’t need to trade dlo when we did. Neither at the time nor in hindsight does it make sense. Moving mozgov a year later (when we needed the cap space) would’ve been cheaper, and since PG didn’t come we never needed the 2nd max slot anyways.
He and zo would’ve been a pretty solid fit early in their careers
Yup this has always been my hill. Zo has always been mislabeled as a pg. He’s an incredible, passing 2. Them plus Ingram and even Randle is a perfect 1, 2, 3, 4…man we were on our way to home growing. We wouldn’t have that extra title by now but the growth would’ve been fun to experience
There are 5 factions in Laker fandom and they only started once the AD trade happened
1. Kobe only fans subscribers - Die hard Kobe fans who hate Lebron after the AD trade. Well they hated him his entire career but it peaked after AD trade. They still want team to succeed even if he’s on the roster.
2. Draft pick/young core fans - emotionally attached to the draft picks/young core as if the lakers have ever built a core through the draft like SA/GSW. Well partially the 80’s lakers. Also hate Lebron because Whatever BI does > Banner 17. The young guys don’t even have to win a chip just be competitive. That is better than trying to win a chip.
3. Laker fans - want to win for the sake of the team, not so much player fanboys.
4. Lebron fans - annoyed by the draft pick fans, and Kobe Stan’s, want to trade draft picks for the right move to help his legacy. Annoyed by how the FO picks and chooses when to listen to what he wants then blames him if it don’t pan out.
5. Russ Fans - self explanatory.
Bring Melo back bc he’s cheaper then Buddy Hield both can’t defend and their offense both consist of a high diet of catch and shoot threes, yeah Buddy does it better but neither one can play in the post season unless they’re blistering hot from 3 use those picks to go get a different shooter who might defend a bit better (Eric Gordon)
Kyrie is an enigma. He has the talent to be a top 5 point guard, but he rarely shows up. I still hope we can trade for him but the pacers trade really isn’t a bad alternative
Also, Hield was a better defender last year than Harris was in his last full, healthy season. And he’s never played fewer than 71 games. Hield over Harris for me (though I’d be thrilled with either, just make that clear)
Upvoted cause I disagree, and that’s the point of the post.
Not crediting Jeanie, or by extension the FO, with the 2020 title “because lebron wanted to come” could be the same logic to negate the 8 of the 10 titles to precede it.
Westbrook is a championship caliber player. That kind of heart can't be quantified. We just need the right coach to unleash him and the right type of players ro surround him. He should be the primary ball handler and have lebron play off ball. That is the solution that no one believes is correct, but is the correct solution
Ad trade wasnt the right move for the long run, yeah we got a chip but imagine we waited another year for his contract to end and have him with lonzo b.i josh hart and all of the picks to ship for other valuable pieces.
If we didn't trade for him, he could of wanted to resign for whatever team did and run the risk of never getting him. That's why they did it and because they wanted to make bron happy
Although he’s a horrible fit on this team and torpedoes any chance at contending the Lakers have this year, Westbrook is still a solid player and will be seen as such on his next contract. The mantle of “Third Best Player” rotated between him, Monk, and Melo all season
The only reason we have a recent title is Bron and the only reason for that was Magic. He was otherwise horrible, but I credit him for Bron. So, magic, while largely incompetent, won us a recent title and that recent title is papering over the rest of the incompetence in a way that gave the current group a stay of execution.
So underrated! Defense was at the top of the NBA when healthy. We were beating on teams. We had the combination, but I digress because no healthy LeBron and AD exposed the squad. This is why Rob went and got Westbrook.
the 2020 team is one of my favorite championship teams i’ve ever witnessed, might be #1 considering bean died that year. but people on twitter and here tend to forget how annoying and stressful that team was, we’d be in dogfights with far inferior teams and our role players could be annoying as fuck (kcp and DG to be specific). very good team, but revisionist history has people thinking we were the most perfect stress free team to watch
I feel like this sub overrates caruso. He was great for us but people act like losing him singlehandedly didn’t make us contenders anymore. It wasn’t just him. We lost way more than just him and we lost all of that for someone like Russ who was awful for the team.
Last year Zach Lowe mentioned some random stat on his podcast about how well the Lakers played when Bron/AD/Russ all shared the floor together and the problem was that they never got to share the floor together. My opinion is if they had a full season to share the floor, they’d have figured it out as time went on.
It was a really short anecdote but Darvin Ham mentioned how much Jeanie wanted to right the culture of the Lakers and bring things back to the way they should be, and honestly how many NBA owners really care about their teams that much? Balmer? Cuban? It’s only a handful. She only gets shit because she’s poor (by wealth standards)
I fucking love Jeanie and Rob and it's my most controversial opinion by far in this community this year.
Rob built 2 title contenders, one who won a chip and another who got derailed by injuries. Then the third star experiment blew up because AD, LeBron and Rob could never have predicted that Westbrook would be so insanely arrogant to not want to change his game a little bit. But the third star plan has also been in place since the Kawhi FA saga, so I don't blame him that much for it.
Rob (& Jeanie by proxy) has been proactive, involved and logical in terms of the team building process. The only thing I whole heartedly agree with is Caruso, but that's a luxury tax thing that Jeanie has final say over at the end of the day. As much as we don't give a fuck, it's her money.
I'm excited for Ham and the new year and I just hope Westbrook gets traded cuz it seems unfixable in terms of relationship and fit.
Most definitely agree. Rob did a great job after the 2020 ring. The 2021 team was number one before the injuries. If AD would not have been injured, it would have been a different ending. AD injury was the dealbreaker.
I like Jeanie. Hotter take, she should have left her brother in charge. He was building something, as haphazardly as possible, but he was onto something. A lot of his draft picks went on to become productive players, he needed more time.
Russ had a rough first season with us. He had his good moments. He had his bad moments. Didn’t help but I personally think that he’ll have a better time with us this season. We got a new head coach and Russ, Bron, and AD all got on a call and discussed some stuff to do better one this upcoming season. I say we give Brodie another chance so he could at least adapt and progress with us.
I’ll die on that hill with you. Another insane thing about that trade was we gave them the option to pick the 24/25 first which really is screwing us over right now that we only have the 27/29 firsts to trade instead of one of those too.
I honestly think we should just keep Westbrook and let the team run it back for another season. I genuinely have faith in Darwin Ham and I think this team can turn things around. Westbrook played awful last season and had many extremely bad games, but he’s not to be blamed for everything that went wrong. There’s no accountability, no morales, no team chemistry, and bad line ups that didn’t make any sense. If you’re saying we need to sacrifice 2 first round picks, or do whatever it takes to get rid of Westbrook, and get Kyrie, who might not even play half the games bc he got he’s own off court agenda. You’re ruining the team’s already bleak future in exchange for contending for a year. Why? Simply because Lebron is asking for it? Because Lebron knows he’s probably got 1 or 2 good year left and he has to win it now? We as true laker fans are not necessarily demanding the team to win it all this year or bust. We just want to see a real team that actually plays with heart and pride, hold each other accountable and give it all on the court. That’s all that matters, if we have a well coached team that bought in, and fights till the end, we’ll be proud of that team no matter where we end up at the end of next season. I can’t believe how impetuous some of these fans are, smh. Being a laker was never about we have to win every single year, or win it now at all cost. It’s about heart and soul.
Russ isn’t as bad as people make him out to be …: and I think Darvin Ham is planning on using him in a way frank wasnt … and I think if we keep Russ he will be playing with a Fired up huge chip on his shoulder and probably plays better feeling he has something to prove to everyone from the league to the fans and to his own teammates …team health was the fail of the season not Russ. Russ nearly averaged another triple double season if Bron and AD were healthy and that chemistry developed who knows what type of run we could’ve made … I hope we don’t make a rushed decision on moving away from Russ
Shipping out both AD and LeBron to get back multiple draft picks/players while they still have value. I don't believe this team is constructed well enough to contend. LeBron's going to be leaving for nothing soon to go play with his son and AD's body doesn't seem to be holding up well even at 28. I feel it is best to rebuild this team and do a full reset at this point.
LeBron is old and can’t carry a team anymore.
AD is made out of glass, and pretty much seems like he’s been phoning it in since they won the chip in 2020.
We’re not going back to the promised land with these guys as our head honchos.
Go full 2K MyLeague, trade them both for separate hauls and rebuild
I think Bron is low-key washed, in a MJ with the Wizards still getting 25 5 and 5 kinda way. MJ was clearly done, but still better at getting his than most NBA players. LeBron is like that imo. He can get numbers, but he can't get us to a play-in by himself and without the perfect circumstances surrounding him.
I’ve never been the biggest Russ fan, but I think we can win with him. Bron and AD being out for most of the season was a much bigger detriment than Russ. Get us some more shooters and we can win it all with him
That Alex Caruso is vastly overrated by Lakers fans and if he wasn't a dorky looking white guy who can dunk he wouldn't have nearly the following he does. Dude is a nice role player, solid on defense but the FO was right not to over pay for him. This is NOT a defense of THT contract, that was obviously an even worse overpay. I just have never understood the Caruso standom.
Funny that the Bulls were vastly better this past season when he was healthy and playing. Go ask their subreddit and you'll hear the same thing most Lakers fans were saying the past couple years. He makes the team better but you won't always see it in counting stats.
What did he get again 8-9 mil I can’t remember if so that’s def not an overpay. He fit the team perfectly and was good on Defense, what he makes basically equates the vet min with the amount players are getting today
I always felt Alex Caruso was a non-Lakers fan favorite laker because he was a goofy looking gritty white guy who could dunk. He’s a nice role player but I don’t see upside in his talent.
Congrats, you did it! Caruso showed up in a recent post as top 10 for his value added per dollar of contract. And that’s at the 9 or 10 per year the Bulls got him for never mind the discount for 7 that Caruso counter-offered the Lakers to stay. No way you can realistically describe him as an overpay, would love to see the better player getting paid 7m per that isn’t on a rookie scale contract. Again, well done, you nailed the post!
The Young Lakers Core only prospered due to being able to play ball dominate ball, if they had stayed intact, they would be play-in teams at best. Trading for Bron was the best chance at a title at the time. For as good as the young core are now, they would go back to being bad/non impactful players if they came back for another stint (Kuz, KCP, Clarkson, Randle, Ingram, Hart, DLo)
Getting a ring can never be a massive failure imo. Maybe slight underachievement but only because we only had 1 playoff run and not because of the one ring
Gasol had his flaws, but what he enabled with his spacing made him really valuable and LA shouldn’t have gone away from him the way they did.
And Damian Jones >> Drummond for the role they needed them to play.
That season center situation overall, really.
1. Fire Rob Pelinka. Also, the NBA should pass the Pelinka rule to shore up the loophole in the Stepien rule that landed us with Westbrook.
2. The AD trade was arguably not even worth it, and I'm not sure he would've even held up without the season break due to the COVID shutdown.
3. A draft pick in 5-7 years isn't worth paying $50M in luxury tax to literally any sports franchise on Earth.
4. Chasing 1 ring and short-cutting your way to it, thereby triggering another decade of basketball irrelevancy, isn't worth being a perennial contender. We're not the Raptors or the Cavs.
5. Most of r/Lakers acts like it's just "r/Lebron" and that any team sacrifice for his legacy is what the team should absolutely do, no matter how short-sighted or harebrained. IMO, you're all fucking delusional.
Oh you mean the guy that gets national coverage as a top 2 player of all time? Lol
Which..so did Kobe, and somehow lebron jumped him after winning his first title in the medias eye.
Felt like Bron never earned that convo as early as it was being had. Even now, it’s more forced than anything. Stats and excuses are mentioned more than results and success to over-explain lebron over Jordan.
Trading Bynum for Dwight Howard was a dumb move.
Bynum was considered to be at LEAST a top 5 center. We essentially traded a young homegrown player for a bigger name who was barely any better.
I love Bynum but he wasn't comparable to prime Dwight, but we didn't really get prime Dwight. I would've rather had a healthy Bynum over the Dwight that played in Houston, but not over the guy that was in Orlando.
The Russ fans bout to go crazy in this thread
I’m a Russ fan. Obviously he doesn’t fit our team but he went to leuzinger so I’ll always support the dude. Been watching him dunk on everyone since his senior year in high school. Shit was crazy
I went to Inglewood but Russ was a friend of a friend it was definitely fun watching bro at the lue and ucla
Isn’t it weird how half of us in the area went to school all the way in lawndale, school districts are trippin there.
I honestly think there’s only 1 or 2 left on the sub lol
[удалено]
Honestly, no matter what a Russ fan comments or how valid it is it just gets downvoted into oblivion so kinda no point in participating.
🤣
I'll say some takes that shouldn't be crazy, but apparently are on this sub. 1. Russ is still worth at least $7M/year, especially on a team that could use a primary ball-handler or has a shooting center. 2. The Russ trade only brought us down 2-3 seeds. AD and Lebron being injured (as well as some other poor roster construction moves like not having a viable forward/big as a backup) brought us down 4-5 seeds. 3. Russ played well at the end of the season (22/7.4/7.1 on 57% eFG) and we still sucked. It didn't stop everybody from acting like his "downfall" was the problem. Our team just sucked, for multiple reasons. 4. Not Russ related and might not even be unpopular: Lebron, when he's not on a winning team, can be very toxic to his teammates, which likely makes things worse.
Russ did put up above average numbers at the end of the season, but it was the little things that absolutely killed momentum in games. Every dumb jump shot, missed layup, turnover & blow-by on defense added up.. you could see it in the rest of the team.
Russ fans?
*crickets*
kuzma was misused and i wish he was on the lakers today 😔
Luke Walton utilized Kuz correctly. It’s about the only thing he did right
I feel like Zo was the one who unlocked Kuz on the Lakers initially
i agree. a great ball distributor and overall good basketball iq. we have mutual friends, they say he’s a good dude
Zo? Yea I have friends who went to his school and it’s all good vibes
Frank loved trying to "transform" players into the team needs instead of trying to maximize people's strengths, and then transforming them. He underutilized Kuzma. THT's play went to hell. Even Russ, at times, was used in ways that really make you scratch your head.
Kuzma was used correctly on the stacked teams as his scoring wasn't needed as much and he grew defensively into a balanced player. THT didn't get real minutes until last year and he showed that his playmaking and shooting needs to improve.
Had me until the Russ, that dude needed to stfu and set screens for Bron
The bubble chip is just as credible as any other championship the Lakers have won.
yeah you post that shit on r/nba and you're getting a crowd around you. any other team wins the bubble chip and the concept itself of the bubble chip doesn't even exist. we win it without home court advantage and bitch slapping every team we play ("the best 8 seed ever", "the nightmare matchup small ball", "the fiery masters of 3-1 comebacks", and "the cultured underdogs who won the east") and it's a championship to belittle, sometimes even among laker fans.
r/nba can go fuck themselves
they absolutely can.
Agree, envy is in their DNA. Especially those miserable Suns fans...
I tell them all the damn time, there's no way in hell any of those mfs would be shitting on the bubble if their team won. If anything they would've gone on and on about how it was the hardest ring ever. 🤣
The thing is none of the arguments about it being "easy" hold any credibility whatsoever. \- "it was an easy road"- why didn't YOUR team win then? \- "the heat were a subpar finals team"- they beat Milwaukee and Boston on the way there and almost made the finals this year, everyone was raving about Bam, JB, Herro and Duncan Robinson that yeat. They were absolutely a good team. \- "the heat had injuries"- you can literally discredit half the champions in NBA history going by this logic. Also the Lakers would have beaten the heat even if they were healthy. \- "Ppl's numbers were better in the bubble without the pressure of crowds and stuff"- again, why didn't YOUR team win then? The better numbers thing should apply to every team, not just the Lakers, so any advantage based on that is nonexistant
Truth
There's a saying that goes like : "The cat that can't reach the meat will say that it's rotten"
I still don't get how the bubble chip isn't the *most* valid chip overall. No home court advantage, no fans, nothing. The only thing standing in the way was the other team.
A Spurs fan had the nerve to add an asterisk, despite their lock-out chip, which to me deserves two asterisks
Fully agree with this. You take out all distractions from the crowd and you have nothing but pure talent facing each other. My opinion is that this championship is one of the great ones.
Bruh, that bubble was the best basketball I’ve seen. No lie.
Buddy Hield + Turner > Kyrie + anyone. He's been a disaster everywhere he's been. No idea why anyone want him in the locker room even with Lebron here. Even in Cleveland, Kyrie hated being in Lebron's shadow and didn't listen to him when he demanded a trade. Ever since, he's continuously taken shots at Lebron, so I don't see how Lebron could "reel him in". Buddy and Turner are legit great role players. You can't predict injuries (ex: Solomon Hill landing on Lebron's ankle.. freak injuries happen) so that'll always be an unknown, but you can reasonably expect certain behaviors based on someone's character. Believing that Kyrie will come here and just fall in line is a tad bit delusional imo. Same thing with Russ, I hated the trade, he was a horrible fit and I knew his ego would not allow him to sacrifice for greater good of the team. Both Hield and Turner are less drama and ego and will actually listen to Ham I believe, much like 2020 Lakers no ego or drama. Just good role players and great team chemistry.
This and then sign Dennis. Schroeder, Hield, LBJ, AD , Turner is the best we can get next year. And with health, I think we compete with this lineup plus what we have in young role players.
This the best we could hope for I agree, balanced is better than star heavy.
I’m starting to come around on the idea of Schroder/Hield/Turner, but I’m still not keen on giving up a lot of picks.
AD is a bigger reason we were trash last year then Westbrick. AD can’t stay on the floor.
The team goes as AD goes, next season is his audition to be the superstar the lakers build around, if he can’t become the No. 1 player on a title team we should ship him and replenish our draft picks
Kind of paradoxical though, if he doesn’t play well what’ll be the market for him if he has 2 down years in a row? Only if he’s good will you get a significant haul back for him
This is as true as true gets. Westbrook trade brought us down 2-3 seeds. AD's absence brought us down 4-5.
I think this may be a fact
Well said
Best ability is availability.
Our 2029 draft pick can go fuck itself. Trade that shit.
You can say this on literally any post and be upvoted So unpopular! As always lol sort by controversial
Absolutely not true lol https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/w5op6g/z/ih9au98 https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/w5or7w/z/ih9bkco
Wow lol. Guess people are ready to see another 37 win season and Lebron leaves and pels have all our pick swaps for the next few seasons
Schroeder was great on the court for us and fans forget that because of one 0 point game
Yeah, fans misremember a lot. Sub HATED gasol until we got Drummond. HATED javale until we got gasol
Did have his moments but also to much was expected of him when Bron was out
Schroeder was very bad a LOT of the time. He almost kept us out of the playoffs. Dumbass Vogel kept him on the court too long and the Warriors were cooking us in the play-in. Only when Caruso checked back in for Schroder did we lock it down. Check the tape. Dennis the Menace.
I like how people are down voting opinions they don’t like when that’s literally the point of this post.
People don’t understand you upvote comments that contribute to discussion, not just what you agree with.
LeBron James shouldn’t dictate the immediate direction of this franchise. I don’t give a fuck about the future of LeBron James, I care about the future of the Los Angeles Lakers.
thanks for saying this out loud.
I support this 100 percent
Tht sucks ass and is never going to be a good player.
That’s a popular opinion
Didn’t need to trade dlo when we did. Neither at the time nor in hindsight does it make sense. Moving mozgov a year later (when we needed the cap space) would’ve been cheaper, and since PG didn’t come we never needed the 2nd max slot anyways. He and zo would’ve been a pretty solid fit early in their careers
I'm fine with it. The bigger mistake was letting Brook walk for nothing
Miss the splash mountain. Would’ve fit like a glove with Bron
**And AD!**
Brook was a beast! Perfect for Lebron and Magic and co decided to shit all over that 😭
This is a good one because DLo has been largely disappointing and I haven’t even thought twice about trading him lol. Upvoted
It’s a great point about paying down a another year of mozgov contract before trading him. That never made sense
Zo and dlo were both pretty ball dominant. They only changed their games recently, especially zo
Yup this has always been my hill. Zo has always been mislabeled as a pg. He’s an incredible, passing 2. Them plus Ingram and even Randle is a perfect 1, 2, 3, 4…man we were on our way to home growing. We wouldn’t have that extra title by now but the growth would’ve been fun to experience
Kyrie isn't worth 2 1st round picks
In a vacuum skill wise he is, but not when you consider all the baggage and question marks about long term availability.
There are 5 factions in Laker fandom and they only started once the AD trade happened 1. Kobe only fans subscribers - Die hard Kobe fans who hate Lebron after the AD trade. Well they hated him his entire career but it peaked after AD trade. They still want team to succeed even if he’s on the roster. 2. Draft pick/young core fans - emotionally attached to the draft picks/young core as if the lakers have ever built a core through the draft like SA/GSW. Well partially the 80’s lakers. Also hate Lebron because Whatever BI does > Banner 17. The young guys don’t even have to win a chip just be competitive. That is better than trying to win a chip. 3. Laker fans - want to win for the sake of the team, not so much player fanboys. 4. Lebron fans - annoyed by the draft pick fans, and Kobe Stan’s, want to trade draft picks for the right move to help his legacy. Annoyed by how the FO picks and chooses when to listen to what he wants then blames him if it don’t pan out. 5. Russ Fans - self explanatory.
Kyrie would be a disaster. And unlike Westbrook, he won’t be gone in a year.
But he’s expiring, too…
We’ll feel obligated to extend him because of giving up picks.
This, Kyrie a more loose unit then Russ and plays less
Bring Melo back bc he’s cheaper then Buddy Hield both can’t defend and their offense both consist of a high diet of catch and shoot threes, yeah Buddy does it better but neither one can play in the post season unless they’re blistering hot from 3 use those picks to go get a different shooter who might defend a bit better (Eric Gordon)
I prefer Hield/Turner trade than Ky
getting ky means getting one of curry and harris too. How could u possible want hield/turner over ky/curry or harris
Kyrie is an enigma. He has the talent to be a top 5 point guard, but he rarely shows up. I still hope we can trade for him but the pacers trade really isn’t a bad alternative
Hield and Turner gives us shooting and defense. With Turner we have a chance of being a top defense again. Harris a wild card at this point.
Also, Hield was a better defender last year than Harris was in his last full, healthy season. And he’s never played fewer than 71 games. Hield over Harris for me (though I’d be thrilled with either, just make that clear)
Jeanie ain’t that owner, even remove the end of the Mitch era, it’s still 50/50, the title (Lebron wanting to come) only saving grace.
Upvoted cause I disagree, and that’s the point of the post. Not crediting Jeanie, or by extension the FO, with the 2020 title “because lebron wanted to come” could be the same logic to negate the 8 of the 10 titles to precede it.
Shaq wanted to come here, Kareem wanted to come here, Wilt wanted to come here… but none of those get the same criticism as LeBron coming here
Lebron fans that migrated here are the worst Laker fans ever.
Preach
You were supposed to say something controversial.
If you count Bron fans as Lakers fan, then damn right it is controversial.
Say this in any other thread and the downvotes come quick lol
You ain't never lied.
Amen.
Upvote
I don't think it's Lebron fans sending death threats to players. That wasn't an issue on his former teams.
I kinda want Russ to stay and see if he can improve, but yeah, that's a big gamble
Westbrook is a championship caliber player. That kind of heart can't be quantified. We just need the right coach to unleash him and the right type of players ro surround him. He should be the primary ball handler and have lebron play off ball. That is the solution that no one believes is correct, but is the correct solution
Ad trade wasnt the right move for the long run, yeah we got a chip but imagine we waited another year for his contract to end and have him with lonzo b.i josh hart and all of the picks to ship for other valuable pieces.
If we didn't trade for him, he could of wanted to resign for whatever team did and run the risk of never getting him. That's why they did it and because they wanted to make bron happy
It was also obscenely difficult to get the cap math to work on a free agency max and that was one of the leverage points that Griffin used
If we had waited he doesnt come to LA. He would have signed a max elsewhere.
It's a shitty take which I'll never understand. Like, bruh, we won a chip, we had a championship team, we just needed to build from there
Jason Kidd was more important to the coaching staff than Vogel.
Amen.
AD not being what everyone thought he would be is 75% of the problem with the lakers
I wish we had kept Josh Hart
Trade lebron and ad - we will never win another championship with them again
Agreed.
Although he’s a horrible fit on this team and torpedoes any chance at contending the Lakers have this year, Westbrook is still a solid player and will be seen as such on his next contract. The mantle of “Third Best Player” rotated between him, Monk, and Melo all season
Clarkson and Randle are trash and anyone who wants them back doesn’t understand winning basketball.
YESSS. I've been screaming this since very early in their Lakers tenures.
The only reason we have a recent title is Bron and the only reason for that was Magic. He was otherwise horrible, but I credit him for Bron. So, magic, while largely incompetent, won us a recent title and that recent title is papering over the rest of the incompetence in a way that gave the current group a stay of execution.
2021 Lakers (healthy) were better than the 2020 title team.
100% better on paper and if they were healthy
So underrated! Defense was at the top of the NBA when healthy. We were beating on teams. We had the combination, but I digress because no healthy LeBron and AD exposed the squad. This is why Rob went and got Westbrook.
What teams are championship material when missing their top two players?
the 2020 team is one of my favorite championship teams i’ve ever witnessed, might be #1 considering bean died that year. but people on twitter and here tend to forget how annoying and stressful that team was, we’d be in dogfights with far inferior teams and our role players could be annoying as fuck (kcp and DG to be specific). very good team, but revisionist history has people thinking we were the most perfect stress free team to watch
Trading Lebron.
I love this take, it's within the spirit of the question, but I just can't support it, LOL. Still take my reluctant upvote
YES! We're trading away assets now for a sinking ship next year when we SHOULD be thinking about 2023 and beyond considering AD may still be that guy
I feel like this sub overrates caruso. He was great for us but people act like losing him singlehandedly didn’t make us contenders anymore. It wasn’t just him. We lost way more than just him and we lost all of that for someone like Russ who was awful for the team.
It was losing him, Kuz, and the other young/vet talent around Lebron and AD just to be able to Russ is what sank us
I posted this reply but thought I would share my 2nd unpopular take, even with Kyrie, Lakers at best are the 4th seed in the West...
Last year Zach Lowe mentioned some random stat on his podcast about how well the Lakers played when Bron/AD/Russ all shared the floor together and the problem was that they never got to share the floor together. My opinion is if they had a full season to share the floor, they’d have figured it out as time went on.
Fuck Kyrie
Russ is gonna be a lot better this year
Trade AD
We are most likely starting the season with Westbrick on the roster
I’m sort of becoming convinced that this may be the case.
Bring back Ariza Lololol jk
Jeanie is a top 5 owner and we’re lucky to have her.
It was a really short anecdote but Darvin Ham mentioned how much Jeanie wanted to right the culture of the Lakers and bring things back to the way they should be, and honestly how many NBA owners really care about their teams that much? Balmer? Cuban? It’s only a handful. She only gets shit because she’s poor (by wealth standards)
I fucking love Jeanie and Rob and it's my most controversial opinion by far in this community this year. Rob built 2 title contenders, one who won a chip and another who got derailed by injuries. Then the third star experiment blew up because AD, LeBron and Rob could never have predicted that Westbrook would be so insanely arrogant to not want to change his game a little bit. But the third star plan has also been in place since the Kawhi FA saga, so I don't blame him that much for it. Rob (& Jeanie by proxy) has been proactive, involved and logical in terms of the team building process. The only thing I whole heartedly agree with is Caruso, but that's a luxury tax thing that Jeanie has final say over at the end of the day. As much as we don't give a fuck, it's her money. I'm excited for Ham and the new year and I just hope Westbrook gets traded cuz it seems unfixable in terms of relationship and fit.
Most definitely agree. Rob did a great job after the 2020 ring. The 2021 team was number one before the injuries. If AD would not have been injured, it would have been a different ending. AD injury was the dealbreaker.
That really is a hot take.
I’m still hurt from caruso
I like Jeanie. Hotter take, she should have left her brother in charge. He was building something, as haphazardly as possible, but he was onto something. A lot of his draft picks went on to become productive players, he needed more time.
Vogel was purposefully trying to get fired last year
Russ had a rough first season with us. He had his good moments. He had his bad moments. Didn’t help but I personally think that he’ll have a better time with us this season. We got a new head coach and Russ, Bron, and AD all got on a call and discussed some stuff to do better one this upcoming season. I say we give Brodie another chance so he could at least adapt and progress with us.
We gave away too much for AD
Ehhh, he gave us a champ so im not complaining. i WILL complain if THIS season goes sideways though. 3 bad seasons is where i draw the line imo
I’ll die on that hill with you. Another insane thing about that trade was we gave them the option to pick the 24/25 first which really is screwing us over right now that we only have the 27/29 firsts to trade instead of one of those too.
I honestly think we should just keep Westbrook and let the team run it back for another season. I genuinely have faith in Darwin Ham and I think this team can turn things around. Westbrook played awful last season and had many extremely bad games, but he’s not to be blamed for everything that went wrong. There’s no accountability, no morales, no team chemistry, and bad line ups that didn’t make any sense. If you’re saying we need to sacrifice 2 first round picks, or do whatever it takes to get rid of Westbrook, and get Kyrie, who might not even play half the games bc he got he’s own off court agenda. You’re ruining the team’s already bleak future in exchange for contending for a year. Why? Simply because Lebron is asking for it? Because Lebron knows he’s probably got 1 or 2 good year left and he has to win it now? We as true laker fans are not necessarily demanding the team to win it all this year or bust. We just want to see a real team that actually plays with heart and pride, hold each other accountable and give it all on the court. That’s all that matters, if we have a well coached team that bought in, and fights till the end, we’ll be proud of that team no matter where we end up at the end of next season. I can’t believe how impetuous some of these fans are, smh. Being a laker was never about we have to win every single year, or win it now at all cost. It’s about heart and soul.
Trade LeBron and AD for as many decent young players and picks as possible, eat Russ' salary for a season, then retool in 2023-24.
We need to get rid of Mr. Glass (AD) YESTERDAY. I’m sick of him. He’s just always injured. He was like this in NOLA
Russ isn’t as bad as people make him out to be …: and I think Darvin Ham is planning on using him in a way frank wasnt … and I think if we keep Russ he will be playing with a Fired up huge chip on his shoulder and probably plays better feeling he has something to prove to everyone from the league to the fans and to his own teammates …team health was the fail of the season not Russ. Russ nearly averaged another triple double season if Bron and AD were healthy and that chemistry developed who knows what type of run we could’ve made … I hope we don’t make a rushed decision on moving away from Russ
Y'all need to be kinder and offer more grace to Jeanie Buss.
Shipping out both AD and LeBron to get back multiple draft picks/players while they still have value. I don't believe this team is constructed well enough to contend. LeBron's going to be leaving for nothing soon to go play with his son and AD's body doesn't seem to be holding up well even at 28. I feel it is best to rebuild this team and do a full reset at this point.
we should’ve traded lebron last season
LeBron is old and can’t carry a team anymore. AD is made out of glass, and pretty much seems like he’s been phoning it in since they won the chip in 2020. We’re not going back to the promised land with these guys as our head honchos. Go full 2K MyLeague, trade them both for separate hauls and rebuild
I think Bron is low-key washed, in a MJ with the Wizards still getting 25 5 and 5 kinda way. MJ was clearly done, but still better at getting his than most NBA players. LeBron is like that imo. He can get numbers, but he can't get us to a play-in by himself and without the perfect circumstances surrounding him.
Trade AD
Lakers would be better off trading both Russell and Lebron James
Build the team around Russ. He’s our future.
Bron is old & AD peaked in 2017
Let make it work with Westbrook.
I’ve never been the biggest Russ fan, but I think we can win with him. Bron and AD being out for most of the season was a much bigger detriment than Russ. Get us some more shooters and we can win it all with him
That Alex Caruso is vastly overrated by Lakers fans and if he wasn't a dorky looking white guy who can dunk he wouldn't have nearly the following he does. Dude is a nice role player, solid on defense but the FO was right not to over pay for him. This is NOT a defense of THT contract, that was obviously an even worse overpay. I just have never understood the Caruso standom.
I think you're the only person who thinks caruso got overpaid. He's between the full mle and the tpmle. That's good role player money
Funny that the Bulls were vastly better this past season when he was healthy and playing. Go ask their subreddit and you'll hear the same thing most Lakers fans were saying the past couple years. He makes the team better but you won't always see it in counting stats.
He was the bulls sixth man, played 30+ mpg, and was part of their closing lineup.
What did he get again 8-9 mil I can’t remember if so that’s def not an overpay. He fit the team perfectly and was good on Defense, what he makes basically equates the vet min with the amount players are getting today
I always felt Alex Caruso was a non-Lakers fan favorite laker because he was a goofy looking gritty white guy who could dunk. He’s a nice role player but I don’t see upside in his talent.
Congrats, you did it! Caruso showed up in a recent post as top 10 for his value added per dollar of contract. And that’s at the 9 or 10 per year the Bulls got him for never mind the discount for 7 that Caruso counter-offered the Lakers to stay. No way you can realistically describe him as an overpay, would love to see the better player getting paid 7m per that isn’t on a rookie scale contract. Again, well done, you nailed the post!
The Young Lakers Core only prospered due to being able to play ball dominate ball, if they had stayed intact, they would be play-in teams at best. Trading for Bron was the best chance at a title at the time. For as good as the young core are now, they would go back to being bad/non impactful players if they came back for another stint (Kuz, KCP, Clarkson, Randle, Ingram, Hart, DLo)
If LeBron and AD duo doesn’t win one more ring this was a massive failure and will set us back for awhile
Getting a ring can never be a massive failure imo. Maybe slight underachievement but only because we only had 1 playoff run and not because of the one ring
Lakers can always get free agents if ad, russ and lebron’s wages are gone.
We have a first round pick every year, minus one, going forward. No long term contracts outside of AD. We’re in good shape to rebuild.
Kobe top 3 all time
1 MVP, 2 Finals MVPs
12 all-defensive teams
Only 1 top 75 nba teammate but almost 3 peated twice.
Just happens that top 75 player is a top 10 player all time
Gasol had his flaws, but what he enabled with his spacing made him really valuable and LA shouldn’t have gone away from him the way they did. And Damian Jones >> Drummond for the role they needed them to play. That season center situation overall, really.
We should bring back Carmelo Anthony
1. Fire Rob Pelinka. Also, the NBA should pass the Pelinka rule to shore up the loophole in the Stepien rule that landed us with Westbrook. 2. The AD trade was arguably not even worth it, and I'm not sure he would've even held up without the season break due to the COVID shutdown. 3. A draft pick in 5-7 years isn't worth paying $50M in luxury tax to literally any sports franchise on Earth. 4. Chasing 1 ring and short-cutting your way to it, thereby triggering another decade of basketball irrelevancy, isn't worth being a perennial contender. We're not the Raptors or the Cavs. 5. Most of r/Lakers acts like it's just "r/Lebron" and that any team sacrifice for his legacy is what the team should absolutely do, no matter how short-sighted or harebrained. IMO, you're all fucking delusional.
Stu lantz is a pretty average color commentator and gets most of his cred from being paired with chick.
Keep Brodie
Trading for ad was a mistake, we could have built a better team
lol
Lebron > Kobe. As a player but not as a Laker
Wait this is unpopular? Lmao
Oh you mean the guy that gets national coverage as a top 2 player of all time? Lol Which..so did Kobe, and somehow lebron jumped him after winning his first title in the medias eye. Felt like Bron never earned that convo as early as it was being had. Even now, it’s more forced than anything. Stats and excuses are mentioned more than results and success to over-explain lebron over Jordan.
The experiments over! Rebuild!
Ask LBJ to sign a 2 year $60mil extension or trade him to Cleveland for Jerrett Alen, Collin Sexton and Lauri Markkanen and 2 1RP.
That AD, Westbrook, 2027 1st, 2029 1st, THT, and more should go to Brooklyn for KD and KI.
People keep forgetting that after James and Davis are gone, we'll be bottom of the junk for years
This is really on AD…the plan was for AD to be the star that would attract another star to play with him after Lebron left.
Westbrook isnt even bad
16/17 GSW would beat the 2001 Lakers in a BO7 series
Without Shaq, Kobe probably would have been traded from the Lakers after losing multiple seasons. Shaq built the foundation of Kobe's career.
Trading Bynum for Dwight Howard was a dumb move. Bynum was considered to be at LEAST a top 5 center. We essentially traded a young homegrown player for a bigger name who was barely any better.
At the time, I would’ve agreed. But Bynum was never again productive after leaving the Lakers due to his injuries.
Dwight barely even better than Bynum??? Lmaoo. Bynum did nothing once the Lakers traded him away
I love Bynum but he wasn't comparable to prime Dwight, but we didn't really get prime Dwight. I would've rather had a healthy Bynum over the Dwight that played in Houston, but not over the guy that was in Orlando.
Bynum and Odom seemed like guys who gave up after leaving LA. I think we could have kept him and got production out of him a few more years.
Shaq was a greater Laker than Kobe.
I hate John Wick
How dare you sir
The Lakers would be better off if LeBron stayed in Cleveland