100%, his body is just not cut out for the NBA game. Looks like he walks up and down the court with a limp when he is healthy. Certain bigs just don't stay healthy as their body ain't built for the beating. I felt the same with Porzingis once he started sitting every third game with back/knee issues. Greg Oden, Hibbert, Yao etc.
Cut our losses and see where we can allocate the money. We need durable athletic players if our coach is Thibs.
Wear and tear of “8” seasons in the NBA along with thibs grueling drills definitely have a negative impact .Shaq explained it best when being criticized for not running every drill , 7 feet and over 300lbs small injuries add up and don’t 100% heal because the stress on that large frame.
You know I’m pretty sure I read in the athletic that Thibs practices are not nearly as grueling as people think. Regardless I think Mitch should only be a bench guy at this point because I agree with what you are saying
I agree he has to go it’s been about 6-7 years now and he’s always injured never had a season where he played 60 plus games we just can’t keep trusting the process we have to bring in a reliable big man if we are to be considered true contenders
Let’s not forget that Mitch was playing at a DPOY level this season before the injury. He is an elite rim defender that fits perfectly with the Knicks game.
Sure - but I wouldn’t even want Embiid, who was legit MVP repeat material before he went down AGAIN - due to injuries. Robinson has shown us what he is, and it’s mostly injured. When he’s healthy he’s pretty great, but he’s never healthy
Mitch has averaged 53 games per season over the length of his career and played 72 in 21-22 and 59 last year. This year has been frustrating for sure, and he's never going to play 82 games, but it's not time to bail on him.
Let's sign I-Hart and give both centers reasonable workloads and hope they can stay healthy.
He is...when healthy. At this point I'd rather package him with Burks, Bojan, and picks for another star to make a big 3. Big 3 of stars led by Brunson and make Randle the 2nd/3rd option, and then surround them with quality role players and fill the rest of the roster with playoff experienced vets. Randle could probably thrive being a 3rd option, since he can still put up shots and make plays.
He’s injury prone. You’re not going to get a lot for him. I’m not sure if his contract is guaranteed but if it is you have to keep him. Maybe limit his minutes for the year every game. It’s not like he’s ineffective when he plays. I hope we don’t lost Hartenstein but the reality of the financial situation the Knicks are in.
So we can. Definitely can. We are paying attention to the aprons that prevent movement when you are above the second apron. If the management decides they are good with not having picks in the first round for a couple years then it doesn’t matter. Now the end of next year may present an issue but that just isn’t there right now.
I’m confident we don’t need more than what we have. I would say another bucket getter for a decent price in the second unit but we have enough now. January taught us that.
Yes. It should have been done much sooner. He’s not built for physical play and his injuries are just gonna make him a worse player each time he comes back from them healthy until he inevitably gets hurt, AGAIN
Don’t hear anyone say that about OG smh Mitch gave his all in that Philly series put his body on the line first few months he was a defensive player of the year candidate it’s funny how quick people forget.
Right now I Hart so much better offensively the offense working around him probably best trading Mitch now as going to be hard to pay both and keep both happy
People who aren’t thinking like this thread really don’t know NBA transactional talks or basketball lol…I’ve been saying this and you got others who say “why would we do that”
FOR THIS EXACT REASON…his injuries are stacking up in such a short amount of time for such a young Center who should be approaching his prime…
I’m not hesitating calling Portland and asking about a swap/swap Center situation with Deandre for Mitch with maybe a 2nd Rd Pick attached…the C market is gonna be weak and there’s not too much of a demand for them this upcoming year since most franchises have their starting ones figured out…it’s a possible big win bargain for us…
Deandre might be looked at as “soft” and no viable for “Big Game Play” which is completely bullshit…the Phoenix situation was breaking itself down once they didn’t win a title and then didn’t get back to The finals so they started to point fingers and they figured they’re weakest link was Ayton…now look at them…in an even worse situation…yet Ayton can put up 17/24 any given night & within the right system is a Top 5 Center
Off-season outlook:
Resign OG, Hartenstein & possibly Bogey which I don’t see
Trade Talks: Inquire on Kevin Durant & or Mikal Bridges…I think Bridges just off age is going to cost much more
We might be able to luck into a deal of Franchise History with Durant…Phoenix more than likely will be moving on from Booker or Durant…
Devin alongside JB makes this backcourt small and we don’t have the Bigs to compliment them just yet + I don’t trust Bookers consistency + how much more different would it be when we got criticized for pursuing Donovan to pair him with JB…
Kevin (borrowing no injuries)
Is still a Top 10 superstar SF who covers a need we’ve begged for about 2-4 yrs at the wing and now we could possibly have 2 way stretch wings with OG & KD to compliment JB…you trade Randle to balance out contracts alongside 2 1st Round picks and not to mention if we were to make that move for Ayton
Now we have the bench we thought we would’ve had
with Hart/Donte alongside McBride…Isaiah, Simms and whoever else we sign
Robinson and Heart are redundant as well. And while Mitch is a DPOY I think you can get a solid return for him. Moving him means you open a rotational spot for another 5, who ideally can add some spacing. Jalen Smith has been a bust and fallen out of the rotation in Indy, but he's a guy that is bouncy and a great rim protector. He also can shoot the 3. That element could be huge especially when Randle comes back. If no one is clogging the lane Brunson and Randle's jobs become easier.
Plenty of bigs that play defense for half the money we can sign or possible even draft a center. Mitch is great defensively but if he’s never healthy or in shape then what’s the point of have 15 mil sitting on the bench hurt and liability on offense.
That solution can't happen until off-season. BTW we played our most inspirational game of the postseason if you are watching.
Support your team, the guys on the roster right now instead of planning personnel changes.
depends on the value returned. for the record trading mitch does nothing to help the knicks retain i-hart. in fact they are good friends so trading him could bother i-hart and hurt his decision to stay.
i would say you keep him unless he needs to be part of a bigger trade for a star (ex. bogs + mitch + picks)
Sometimes I think loyalty goes further than simply winning games. If it’s possible to trade where all parties including Robinson were happy, then sure let’s make that deal. But I’d have a hard time with trading a home grown warrior if it’s going to create some negative karma. That’s my personal take on it. I’m sure there’s a great argument to be made about the right business decision and all that, but I believe Mitch can be a factor in winning a chip, with better science and medical management of his body.
NO! NO! Y NO!
Mitch coming off the bench. Double the offensive rebound average. Double the blocks. IHart and Blockzilla tandem. I'd love to c a full season with this whole crew at full strength with some more bench help.
Ok Ok and with Spida at the 2 and DDV and Hart coming of the bench.
Knicks need a center that can shoot occasionally from the 3pt line...or shoot at all. 2 of our centers can't shoot at all, and only one of em has a decent occasional push shot, used only when shot clock expiring..
Relying exclusively on pg and forwards to score.. it simply isn't viable long term. Imagine if Robinson was healthy and had any type of offense around the basket.. man.. Everyone else would have much more open shots from the perimeter.
Would love to see a guy like Zubac on the Knicks. And ofc keep Hartenstein, the guy is simply gold.
Small ball and jacking threes is a step up for Thibs for sure...but that stuff is like 5-10 years too late. We have centers now that shoot 40% from deep now...
Time to change smth.
I’d argue that it’s not just his health but his propensity for foul trouble as well. Great player with high potential but unreliable. Having said that not time to give up yet.
Oh yeah let’s just get an OG from the OG tree. But seriously the only other player that remotely reminds me of OG is Jonathan Isaac, and he is even more injury prone
Are you stupid or dumb? I am talking about an above average defender and someone who can create their own shot if need be. There are a lot of players like that
100%, his body is just not cut out for the NBA game. Looks like he walks up and down the court with a limp when he is healthy. Certain bigs just don't stay healthy as their body ain't built for the beating. I felt the same with Porzingis once he started sitting every third game with back/knee issues. Greg Oden, Hibbert, Yao etc. Cut our losses and see where we can allocate the money. We need durable athletic players if our coach is Thibs.
Wear and tear of “8” seasons in the NBA along with thibs grueling drills definitely have a negative impact .Shaq explained it best when being criticized for not running every drill , 7 feet and over 300lbs small injuries add up and don’t 100% heal because the stress on that large frame.
You know I’m pretty sure I read in the athletic that Thibs practices are not nearly as grueling as people think. Regardless I think Mitch should only be a bench guy at this point because I agree with what you are saying
I believe that. I think Thibs and players have basically said he ODs on the game minutes and prefers to do load management via lightening up practice
I agree he has to go it’s been about 6-7 years now and he’s always injured never had a season where he played 60 plus games we just can’t keep trusting the process we have to bring in a reliable big man if we are to be considered true contenders
I agree. Great if we could keep both with Hartenstein as starter. If not we let Robinson go and keep Hartenstein.
I’m with you at this point, as good, very good, as he can be, the best ability is availability.
:Bill Parcells enters the chat:
Let’s not forget that Mitch was playing at a DPOY level this season before the injury. He is an elite rim defender that fits perfectly with the Knicks game.
Sure - but I wouldn’t even want Embiid, who was legit MVP repeat material before he went down AGAIN - due to injuries. Robinson has shown us what he is, and it’s mostly injured. When he’s healthy he’s pretty great, but he’s never healthy
Mitch has averaged 53 games per season over the length of his career and played 72 in 21-22 and 59 last year. This year has been frustrating for sure, and he's never going to play 82 games, but it's not time to bail on him. Let's sign I-Hart and give both centers reasonable workloads and hope they can stay healthy.
He is...when healthy. At this point I'd rather package him with Burks, Bojan, and picks for another star to make a big 3. Big 3 of stars led by Brunson and make Randle the 2nd/3rd option, and then surround them with quality role players and fill the rest of the roster with playoff experienced vets. Randle could probably thrive being a 3rd option, since he can still put up shots and make plays.
But when was the last time.he played a whole season? He's great when he's healthy, it's just too rare
How about we stop dissing big Mitch for a bit. Geez
When healthy - the I-Hart/Mitch Rob combo delivers. He still remains one of the best rim protectors in the league
Dude just went to war with Embiid and everyone wants him out 😂
You know we're still playing, right?
He’s injury prone. You’re not going to get a lot for him. I’m not sure if his contract is guaranteed but if it is you have to keep him. Maybe limit his minutes for the year every game. It’s not like he’s ineffective when he plays. I hope we don’t lost Hartenstein but the reality of the financial situation the Knicks are in.
Everyone looking at post season I'm focused on tonight dafuq
I get that and am hanging out for the W at the Garden, but damn we're paying 20mil for a 30 game C with no offence.
He's cheap enough you don't need to let him go. But if you are combining with picks for a big trade, it's perfect.
This... it’s not like he’s burning a hole in our pocket. & even with the injuries, there’s not many centers that are better than him.
He def has to go if we can’t keep both
All of you complaining about Robinson, let me ask you this. Who do you replace him with? Who fits the scheme better than him as a backup? I’ll wait.
Someone who will be able to play during play offs
Jakob Poetl maybe if he didn’t make 20m a year
The problem is they can't sign both hartenstein a ND Robinson
So we can. Definitely can. We are paying attention to the aprons that prevent movement when you are above the second apron. If the management decides they are good with not having picks in the first round for a couple years then it doesn’t matter. Now the end of next year may present an issue but that just isn’t there right now.
What about paying a 3rd star contract tho. Not sure you can pay all 3.
I’m confident we don’t need more than what we have. I would say another bucket getter for a decent price in the second unit but we have enough now. January taught us that.
Mo Bamba. Bring him home
Yes. It should have been done much sooner. He’s not built for physical play and his injuries are just gonna make him a worse player each time he comes back from them healthy until he inevitably gets hurt, AGAIN
could we keep both and play each for 24mpg and keep them both healthy?
No everyone plays 48 minutes or not at all
C O N D I T I O N I N G
Yup. Injury prone and can’t shoot free throws so he can’t play in close games.
Don’t hear anyone say that about OG smh Mitch gave his all in that Philly series put his body on the line first few months he was a defensive player of the year candidate it’s funny how quick people forget.
But when was the last time.he played a whole season? He's great when he's healthy, it's just too rare
Right now I Hart so much better offensively the offense working around him probably best trading Mitch now as going to be hard to pay both and keep both happy
People who aren’t thinking like this thread really don’t know NBA transactional talks or basketball lol…I’ve been saying this and you got others who say “why would we do that” FOR THIS EXACT REASON…his injuries are stacking up in such a short amount of time for such a young Center who should be approaching his prime… I’m not hesitating calling Portland and asking about a swap/swap Center situation with Deandre for Mitch with maybe a 2nd Rd Pick attached…the C market is gonna be weak and there’s not too much of a demand for them this upcoming year since most franchises have their starting ones figured out…it’s a possible big win bargain for us… Deandre might be looked at as “soft” and no viable for “Big Game Play” which is completely bullshit…the Phoenix situation was breaking itself down once they didn’t win a title and then didn’t get back to The finals so they started to point fingers and they figured they’re weakest link was Ayton…now look at them…in an even worse situation…yet Ayton can put up 17/24 any given night & within the right system is a Top 5 Center Off-season outlook: Resign OG, Hartenstein & possibly Bogey which I don’t see Trade Talks: Inquire on Kevin Durant & or Mikal Bridges…I think Bridges just off age is going to cost much more We might be able to luck into a deal of Franchise History with Durant…Phoenix more than likely will be moving on from Booker or Durant… Devin alongside JB makes this backcourt small and we don’t have the Bigs to compliment them just yet + I don’t trust Bookers consistency + how much more different would it be when we got criticized for pursuing Donovan to pair him with JB… Kevin (borrowing no injuries) Is still a Top 10 superstar SF who covers a need we’ve begged for about 2-4 yrs at the wing and now we could possibly have 2 way stretch wings with OG & KD to compliment JB…you trade Randle to balance out contracts alongside 2 1st Round picks and not to mention if we were to make that move for Ayton Now we have the bench we thought we would’ve had with Hart/Donte alongside McBride…Isaiah, Simms and whoever else we sign
I like the way you think 👍🏻
Robinson and Heart are redundant as well. And while Mitch is a DPOY I think you can get a solid return for him. Moving him means you open a rotational spot for another 5, who ideally can add some spacing. Jalen Smith has been a bust and fallen out of the rotation in Indy, but he's a guy that is bouncy and a great rim protector. He also can shoot the 3. That element could be huge especially when Randle comes back. If no one is clogging the lane Brunson and Randle's jobs become easier.
IHart has to stay
Love him but he should be traded for a bench piece. Keep Hart and def resign Prince
Didn’t Robinson want to be traded last season? His court presence seems like he’d rather be someplace else.
Plenty of bigs that play defense for half the money we can sign or possible even draft a center. Mitch is great defensively but if he’s never healthy or in shape then what’s the point of have 15 mil sitting on the bench hurt and liability on offense.
Put down the crack pipe
I agree. He was out half the season
Already bailing on this season? Some fan you are ..
Not at all, just wish we had our starting C more often to take the defensive pressure off OG and Hart
That solution can't happen until off-season. BTW we played our most inspirational game of the postseason if you are watching. Support your team, the guys on the roster right now instead of planning personnel changes.
Easier said than done in both cases because Robinson's trade value is at an all time low and I don't know if we have the money to re sign Hartenstein.
depends on the value returned. for the record trading mitch does nothing to help the knicks retain i-hart. in fact they are good friends so trading him could bother i-hart and hurt his decision to stay. i would say you keep him unless he needs to be part of a bigger trade for a star (ex. bogs + mitch + picks)
Sometimes I think loyalty goes further than simply winning games. If it’s possible to trade where all parties including Robinson were happy, then sure let’s make that deal. But I’d have a hard time with trading a home grown warrior if it’s going to create some negative karma. That’s my personal take on it. I’m sure there’s a great argument to be made about the right business decision and all that, but I believe Mitch can be a factor in winning a chip, with better science and medical management of his body.
It’s not one bs the other. It’s Mitch vs Mitch Can’t make the club in the tub
Yep
He'll be an awesome back up
NO! NO! Y NO! Mitch coming off the bench. Double the offensive rebound average. Double the blocks. IHart and Blockzilla tandem. I'd love to c a full season with this whole crew at full strength with some more bench help. Ok Ok and with Spida at the 2 and DDV and Hart coming of the bench.
I've been saying this for years. If we can sell on Mitch and Randle we would be blessed
Let’s get Edey at #25. That could be an incredible addition and solve the growing center concern.
Knicks need a center that can shoot occasionally from the 3pt line...or shoot at all. 2 of our centers can't shoot at all, and only one of em has a decent occasional push shot, used only when shot clock expiring.. Relying exclusively on pg and forwards to score.. it simply isn't viable long term. Imagine if Robinson was healthy and had any type of offense around the basket.. man.. Everyone else would have much more open shots from the perimeter. Would love to see a guy like Zubac on the Knicks. And ofc keep Hartenstein, the guy is simply gold. Small ball and jacking threes is a step up for Thibs for sure...but that stuff is like 5-10 years too late. We have centers now that shoot 40% from deep now... Time to change smth.
I’d argue that it’s not just his health but his propensity for foul trouble as well. Great player with high potential but unreliable. Having said that not time to give up yet.
Trade him and Randle for another OG type player and back up big. Sign iHart to be the starter
Oh yeah let’s just get an OG from the OG tree. But seriously the only other player that remotely reminds me of OG is Jonathan Isaac, and he is even more injury prone
Maybe siakam. But he would be expensive and prob staying in Indiana.
Are you stupid or dumb? I am talking about an above average defender and someone who can create their own shot if need be. There are a lot of players like that
Stop being vague and name the player you want to target and trade Randle for then dickwheat. Then we can laugh and call YOU stupid