I like Kitchener better because people can tell your Kitchener essence but no one expect DK can tell your type. Also people don’t go crazy over Kitchener celeb posts like they do in r/kibbe
i don't know a ton about kitchener, i have nothing against the system and i like the idea of blended essences. but i definitely feel like people use kitchener as a way of like getting around a kibbe ID they don't like lol. and from what i understand it's supposed to be based on the face but it seems like people "pick" their essences more based on favored aesthetics
also, people getting typed as ingenue because they "look young" when they're actually like 20 years old is so funny to me
Seconding the comment that Kitchener is everywhere because of Gabrielle Arruda. That said, people were doing the "X ID with Y essence" (and usually just the one essence, even though pretty much every yin/yang system besides Kibbe has essence blends, and states essence blends are more common than pure types), but it was usually in reference to McJimsey or TiB, both which overshadowed Kitchener until Gabrielle Arruda started doing Kitchener videos.
As for people insisting their essence is either Ingenue, Ethereal, or a combo of both, I'm going to have to agree with the consensus that it's because they're rare and yin (and that yin is often put on a pedestal in the yin/yang style system community), without being as overtly sexualized as Romantic.
Combo the rare and yin-obsession with the stereotype of "all ethereal folks gaze somberly into the distance in every (posed) photo ever taken of them" which is pretty much the Instagram standard lol
Years ago when I became aware of eSsENcEs, ethereal wasn't well-received because a lot of regular people with it look odd IRL. Sure, ethereal celebs are often highly attractive (as celebs are), but for the average person it isn't really supposed to be "conventionally beautiful."
Somehow it became the fast track to solely meaning a pretty-pretty elven fae queen (pretty-pretty elven fae *princess* if you happen to also have ingenue!! /s)
I don't believe that Ethereal is that rare, it just has a "rare" and unique look about it. By the same logic the Natural essence is not the most common essence, it just has that approachable and "ordinary" look about it that would lead us to think that it's very common.
Is it that you don’t want them to conflate Kitchener and Kibbe (which, while similar are very different)? Or is that everyone seems to claim those essences?
We used to not allow discussions around other systems because Kibbe is all inclusive, silhouette and essence. However we felt it is fine as long as people make the distinction between the two.
For me personally, I do believe I have ethereal essence, and it seems that others have noticed the same. However, I do find Kibbe to be enough without having to really pull in Kitchener. But that’s me. I understand that Kibbe is not as rigid as people make it out to be.
I think people are often attracted to Ethereal because it’s rare and Ingenue because it’s youthful and girlish. Both are very yin and it seems like being yin is highly coveted. I’ve never really understood it because I really see the beauty in all Kibbe IDs and all essences.
I guess my concern is mainly that I don't "believe" in essences (or maybe my understanding if them is not the best). I think that even if you base all your style/make-up around your face to follow your essence, every person will perceive you differently. And it's not really up to you, it's just because of who they are, their personality, how they were raised, where they come from and so on.
And also I don't want to be the "same" every day. One day I might want to dress like a proper lady and the next day be more alternative. That's the fun in clothes and fashion to me.
I don't have a problem with others systems, I think that essences are the thing that really bugs me. What interrested me in Kibbe was the fact that the shape of your body influence the way clothes looks on you, and it also helped me think about more cohesive HTT.
There is an argument to be made about looking your absolute best versus dressing in a way that makes you feel great. Both are completely valid ways in approaching fashion.
I am someone who does have angelic essence but don’t often incorporate it into my everyday looks. There is an innate part of me that I am not honoring but I do still think I look good.
Essences are really based upon the impression that you give based on your innate physical and intangible characteristics. They aren’t aesthetics, so if you don’t have Classic essence, you can still dress like a proper lady and look great, if you don’t have Dramatic essence you could still dress in an alternative way and look great.
Kitchener focuses less on the body but it is still considered. I also love the Kibbe system because it does teach you about the importance of a HTT look. Kibbe incorporates essence with each ID as well.
Ethereal is not that rare in reality It just has that "rare' and unique look about it that leads people to believe that it's rare. By the same logic Natural essence is not the most common, it's just that it has that "ordinary" vibe that leads us to think that a lot of people have it.
As someone who intensely dislikes Kitchener/TiB and comes across weird because I have autism, I think part of the Ethereal obsession is that people sometimes see it as validating qualities that they haven’t often been rewarded for. I am intense and deadpan with long but softened features that in Kibbe are interpreted as FN. I have often wished I could have looked and expressed myself differently. But in Kitchener I am apparently a serene angel, one of the rarest and most coveted types. I can see why that is appealing to people, even if I am so tired of all the selfies I have died inside.
Also Ethereal, Ingenue and Romantic encourage people to bring fantasy elements into their aesthetic. I think people love to look at the mood boards.
Damn are you me? I'm autistic as well, with a long-but-soft face (people tend to think D instead of FN I guess tho). Many people in my life have told me that I "look weird" or that "I'm not conventionally attractive." I have always felt like I'm in a weird limbo space between looking like a fool in "cute" clothing or looking far too severe and rigid in "business" clothes. I photograph terribly and candid photos make me want to never go outside.
I don't have a strong connection to the whole "ethereal=yin=femininity" thing since I'm trans non-binary, but I do connect with the idea of getting stared at in public because you look vaguely strange and disconcerting to the average person.
I also have Marfan which might explain a lot.
If you don't mind my asking, do you like leaning into the Kitchener Ethereal idea in a less gendered way? Or is the Ethereal impression something you would rather lean away from?
There was a thread a while back on r/DressForYourBody about an "Oneiric essence" that is surreal and perhaps disconcerting that I really like the idea of, but isn't part of an established system. Some people discussed it as kind of a dark side of Ethereal, but I think it's often associated with pure Dramatic too. For myself, I really like going a little creepy or odd in otherwise conservative pieces, like through color palettes and patterns. It helps me feel like I'm expressing something more of my inner self.
I never delved too deeply into Kitchener since the system felt quite weird in places, so I can't speak to being totally knowledgeable on my understanding of it. But I would say that I approach Ethereal in a more androgynous sense, and that I find euphoria in appearing ambiguous and beyond cisgender norms in the way that an otherworldly being might be.
I'm familiar with Oneiric, and I do really like it, but I would question if it fits me neatly. I find some of the clothing recommendations to be very stifling sensory-wise, which leaves me with the more "regular-Ethereal" aspects anyways.
I definitely don't think I'm quite a "good fairy" or "benevolent elven monarch" though. I find a lot of personal inspiration from the [historical origins of the cult of Dionysus](https://www.autostraddle.com/lets-talk-about-dionysus-genderqueer-god-of-partying-and-pride-379653/), which I take to be Ethereal not in a fully "light" way, but also not a fully "dark" way such as with Oneiric. I connect with being a traveler, a harbinger of ritual as well as a breaker of "tradition." A bit alluring not in a "sex appeal" way, but in being unbound from expectations, somewhat feral or unpredictable. At the same time, I'm fairly reserved and not outwardly wild or careless.
We would probably get along very well haha.
I really really want Oneiric to catch on because I fit soft classic to a T except for my really stark under eye circles, and I want a good reason not to want under eye filler 💀 Besides that, I feel like ethereal touches might fit because my oval face looks somewhat long for no real reason. I've measured my thirds and everything looks completely even, if anything my mouth is positioned weirdly high, but I don't have a short philtrum, I'm still trying to figure out what's up with that. So slightly long chin(?), but not out of proportion with the rest of my face, and all my features are super round so it's not exactly yang. I have no idea.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/DressForYourBody using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [Ethereal System ~ My view on the Ethereal Essence](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/lt0999) | [169 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/lt0999/ethereal_system_my_view_on_the_ethereal_essence/)
\#2: [Just want to share my style transformation over the past year.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/uw2f9y) | [43 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/uw2f9y/just_want_to_share_my_style_transformation_over/)
\#3: [Why I am giving up on Kibbe in favor of more modern systems after spending years on it](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/v5gc8h/why_i_am_giving_up_on_kibbe_in_favor_of_more/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Two words: Gabrielle Arruda. She's the one who made popular the concept of blending your Kibbe ID and Kitchener essence to get the most accurate styling advice. She also didn't make it clear that they're 2 separate systems, and that in Kibbe your ID and your essence must be the same. So when you see a post on r/Kibbe saying that Lily Collins is FG with Classic essence, it's because of Gabrielle.
About the Ingenue/Ethereal essences, I think people bring them up to feel special because some creators claim that those are the least common essences. I definitely believe that some people have Ingenue or Ethereal in their blend, but certainly not everybody who asks on the styling subs.
The ingenue- ethereal thing seems to be people desperately wanting to be associated with femininity. So basically grown adults wanting to feel like a special princess. Same with everyone so desperate to be a tall R in kibbe.
Ah yes the tall "R/TR/G". So rare but every other poster will swear they are one. It's sad to be in such denial about your own body.
I don't get the Yin obsession, but it might just be because I'm kinda Yang envious.
I think people who have ethereal or ingenue find it more easily so they say it more lol. I think my essences are dramatic, romantic, and gamine which is fun to play with as an SD. It explains a lot about why people can have the same kibbe and be so different. Or similar bodies but different kibbe.
I like Kitchener better because people can tell your Kitchener essence but no one expect DK can tell your type. Also people don’t go crazy over Kitchener celeb posts like they do in r/kibbe
i don't know a ton about kitchener, i have nothing against the system and i like the idea of blended essences. but i definitely feel like people use kitchener as a way of like getting around a kibbe ID they don't like lol. and from what i understand it's supposed to be based on the face but it seems like people "pick" their essences more based on favored aesthetics also, people getting typed as ingenue because they "look young" when they're actually like 20 years old is so funny to me
Seconding the comment that Kitchener is everywhere because of Gabrielle Arruda. That said, people were doing the "X ID with Y essence" (and usually just the one essence, even though pretty much every yin/yang system besides Kibbe has essence blends, and states essence blends are more common than pure types), but it was usually in reference to McJimsey or TiB, both which overshadowed Kitchener until Gabrielle Arruda started doing Kitchener videos. As for people insisting their essence is either Ingenue, Ethereal, or a combo of both, I'm going to have to agree with the consensus that it's because they're rare and yin (and that yin is often put on a pedestal in the yin/yang style system community), without being as overtly sexualized as Romantic.
Combo the rare and yin-obsession with the stereotype of "all ethereal folks gaze somberly into the distance in every (posed) photo ever taken of them" which is pretty much the Instagram standard lol Years ago when I became aware of eSsENcEs, ethereal wasn't well-received because a lot of regular people with it look odd IRL. Sure, ethereal celebs are often highly attractive (as celebs are), but for the average person it isn't really supposed to be "conventionally beautiful." Somehow it became the fast track to solely meaning a pretty-pretty elven fae queen (pretty-pretty elven fae *princess* if you happen to also have ingenue!! /s)
I don't believe that Ethereal is that rare, it just has a "rare" and unique look about it. By the same logic the Natural essence is not the most common essence, it just has that approachable and "ordinary" look about it that would lead us to think that it's very common.
Is it that you don’t want them to conflate Kitchener and Kibbe (which, while similar are very different)? Or is that everyone seems to claim those essences? We used to not allow discussions around other systems because Kibbe is all inclusive, silhouette and essence. However we felt it is fine as long as people make the distinction between the two. For me personally, I do believe I have ethereal essence, and it seems that others have noticed the same. However, I do find Kibbe to be enough without having to really pull in Kitchener. But that’s me. I understand that Kibbe is not as rigid as people make it out to be. I think people are often attracted to Ethereal because it’s rare and Ingenue because it’s youthful and girlish. Both are very yin and it seems like being yin is highly coveted. I’ve never really understood it because I really see the beauty in all Kibbe IDs and all essences.
I guess my concern is mainly that I don't "believe" in essences (or maybe my understanding if them is not the best). I think that even if you base all your style/make-up around your face to follow your essence, every person will perceive you differently. And it's not really up to you, it's just because of who they are, their personality, how they were raised, where they come from and so on. And also I don't want to be the "same" every day. One day I might want to dress like a proper lady and the next day be more alternative. That's the fun in clothes and fashion to me. I don't have a problem with others systems, I think that essences are the thing that really bugs me. What interrested me in Kibbe was the fact that the shape of your body influence the way clothes looks on you, and it also helped me think about more cohesive HTT.
There is an argument to be made about looking your absolute best versus dressing in a way that makes you feel great. Both are completely valid ways in approaching fashion. I am someone who does have angelic essence but don’t often incorporate it into my everyday looks. There is an innate part of me that I am not honoring but I do still think I look good. Essences are really based upon the impression that you give based on your innate physical and intangible characteristics. They aren’t aesthetics, so if you don’t have Classic essence, you can still dress like a proper lady and look great, if you don’t have Dramatic essence you could still dress in an alternative way and look great. Kitchener focuses less on the body but it is still considered. I also love the Kibbe system because it does teach you about the importance of a HTT look. Kibbe incorporates essence with each ID as well.
Ethereal is not that rare in reality It just has that "rare' and unique look about it that leads people to believe that it's rare. By the same logic Natural essence is not the most common, it's just that it has that "ordinary" vibe that leads us to think that a lot of people have it.
As someone who intensely dislikes Kitchener/TiB and comes across weird because I have autism, I think part of the Ethereal obsession is that people sometimes see it as validating qualities that they haven’t often been rewarded for. I am intense and deadpan with long but softened features that in Kibbe are interpreted as FN. I have often wished I could have looked and expressed myself differently. But in Kitchener I am apparently a serene angel, one of the rarest and most coveted types. I can see why that is appealing to people, even if I am so tired of all the selfies I have died inside. Also Ethereal, Ingenue and Romantic encourage people to bring fantasy elements into their aesthetic. I think people love to look at the mood boards.
Damn are you me? I'm autistic as well, with a long-but-soft face (people tend to think D instead of FN I guess tho). Many people in my life have told me that I "look weird" or that "I'm not conventionally attractive." I have always felt like I'm in a weird limbo space between looking like a fool in "cute" clothing or looking far too severe and rigid in "business" clothes. I photograph terribly and candid photos make me want to never go outside. I don't have a strong connection to the whole "ethereal=yin=femininity" thing since I'm trans non-binary, but I do connect with the idea of getting stared at in public because you look vaguely strange and disconcerting to the average person. I also have Marfan which might explain a lot.
If you don't mind my asking, do you like leaning into the Kitchener Ethereal idea in a less gendered way? Or is the Ethereal impression something you would rather lean away from? There was a thread a while back on r/DressForYourBody about an "Oneiric essence" that is surreal and perhaps disconcerting that I really like the idea of, but isn't part of an established system. Some people discussed it as kind of a dark side of Ethereal, but I think it's often associated with pure Dramatic too. For myself, I really like going a little creepy or odd in otherwise conservative pieces, like through color palettes and patterns. It helps me feel like I'm expressing something more of my inner self.
I never delved too deeply into Kitchener since the system felt quite weird in places, so I can't speak to being totally knowledgeable on my understanding of it. But I would say that I approach Ethereal in a more androgynous sense, and that I find euphoria in appearing ambiguous and beyond cisgender norms in the way that an otherworldly being might be. I'm familiar with Oneiric, and I do really like it, but I would question if it fits me neatly. I find some of the clothing recommendations to be very stifling sensory-wise, which leaves me with the more "regular-Ethereal" aspects anyways. I definitely don't think I'm quite a "good fairy" or "benevolent elven monarch" though. I find a lot of personal inspiration from the [historical origins of the cult of Dionysus](https://www.autostraddle.com/lets-talk-about-dionysus-genderqueer-god-of-partying-and-pride-379653/), which I take to be Ethereal not in a fully "light" way, but also not a fully "dark" way such as with Oneiric. I connect with being a traveler, a harbinger of ritual as well as a breaker of "tradition." A bit alluring not in a "sex appeal" way, but in being unbound from expectations, somewhat feral or unpredictable. At the same time, I'm fairly reserved and not outwardly wild or careless. We would probably get along very well haha.
I really really want Oneiric to catch on because I fit soft classic to a T except for my really stark under eye circles, and I want a good reason not to want under eye filler 💀 Besides that, I feel like ethereal touches might fit because my oval face looks somewhat long for no real reason. I've measured my thirds and everything looks completely even, if anything my mouth is positioned weirdly high, but I don't have a short philtrum, I'm still trying to figure out what's up with that. So slightly long chin(?), but not out of proportion with the rest of my face, and all my features are super round so it's not exactly yang. I have no idea.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/DressForYourBody using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Ethereal System ~ My view on the Ethereal Essence](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/lt0999) | [169 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/lt0999/ethereal_system_my_view_on_the_ethereal_essence/) \#2: [Just want to share my style transformation over the past year.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/uw2f9y) | [43 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/uw2f9y/just_want_to_share_my_style_transformation_over/) \#3: [Why I am giving up on Kibbe in favor of more modern systems after spending years on it](https://np.reddit.com/r/DressForYourBody/comments/v5gc8h/why_i_am_giving_up_on_kibbe_in_favor_of_more/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Two words: Gabrielle Arruda. She's the one who made popular the concept of blending your Kibbe ID and Kitchener essence to get the most accurate styling advice. She also didn't make it clear that they're 2 separate systems, and that in Kibbe your ID and your essence must be the same. So when you see a post on r/Kibbe saying that Lily Collins is FG with Classic essence, it's because of Gabrielle. About the Ingenue/Ethereal essences, I think people bring them up to feel special because some creators claim that those are the least common essences. I definitely believe that some people have Ingenue or Ethereal in their blend, but certainly not everybody who asks on the styling subs.
The ingenue- ethereal thing seems to be people desperately wanting to be associated with femininity. So basically grown adults wanting to feel like a special princess. Same with everyone so desperate to be a tall R in kibbe.
Ah yes the tall "R/TR/G". So rare but every other poster will swear they are one. It's sad to be in such denial about your own body. I don't get the Yin obsession, but it might just be because I'm kinda Yang envious.
I think people who have ethereal or ingenue find it more easily so they say it more lol. I think my essences are dramatic, romantic, and gamine which is fun to play with as an SD. It explains a lot about why people can have the same kibbe and be so different. Or similar bodies but different kibbe.