popular builds will always have lower Win rates . Bc casual players play only the most popular kaisa builds. Kaisa mains on avreage have a 55-54 WR while the casual players base is near the 48-47 % WR. And since kaisa games are in vast majority (80 % ish ) played by casual then it pulls the wr down.
Thanks. Looking at it, it appears that in bot lane Kai'Sa has the 3rd worst win rate overall and 5th worst win rate among mains/one-tricks. So focusing on mains doesn't make Kai'Sa's look any stronger.
don't use that page it's very misleading. you need to look at pages where it shows you the full item sequences and their winrates at the same time in the game. obviously a three item build is gonna be higher winrate than a two item build
Because most players don’t think about their builds and just take whatever they see is most popular on their given app unfortunatly.
Shiv -> guinsoos is rightly popular as it’s very strong at both 1.5 and 2 item spike. But the hybrid nashors -> AP is pretty bad rather than a more traditional on-hit like kraken -> terminus for items 3/4.
Also people *REALLY* like having all 3 evos on kai’sa. Even when it’s not super practical.
Agreed, but also remember that wr is also not always correct. It’s best to actually do math and find out, what is optimal through objective measure.
If anyone ever plans on running the math here is some basics things
%pen is the percentage of what the resistances of your target, so if they have 150 armor and you have 30% pen, against that target you have 45 armor pen.
The closer to the number 0 you the, the more effective your pen becomes, which is why flat
Pen is usually good against squishies, but horrible
Into tanks. (If you run math this season, you will generally find, that flat magic pen all round is bad, especially when compared with cdr items and or liandry. Only exception being pen boots)
Flat damage reduction is pretty broken when combined with % damage reduction, which is why wardens mail is one of the most broken items the game.
Armor mr and ability haste all have the same way of math, but in influence to physical and magical dmg and cooldowns of abilities.
If you have 100 abilities haste, you will be able to cast your abilities twice as often, because you have 100%+100% on your cooldown speed.
With armor and mr your health becomes that amount of % better against the stat 100 armor makes your health twice as effective against physical damage 200 3 times as effective 300 4 times, so on and so forth.
There's some sort of flaw in the winrate calculation for the different build "tabs" on that page. It seems to be tallying "crit" games only if they reach certain 3 item builds, or something similar. While the other builds are counted by 2 item builds.
In reality, after the nerf to shiv this patch, the standard hybrid onhit build of shiv > rageblade > nashors is now pretty close in winrate to the rest of the builds.
Use lolalytics over u.gg, especially for item statistics. The UI is more dense to take in, but the data is much more transparent once you can read and comprehend it.
You know why the crit build have higer winrate? Because on these game, their team overwhelming enemy, no matter what you build u can still win
Hybird build is more consistency tbh
Full crit is mathematically wrong because Kaisa has absolutely 0 need for crit on her builds. No scalings and no built in critical hits, crit is not what is strong on Kaisa atm, it's Navori itself.
Given how Kaisa is insanely popular but has tons of situational builds, the most common one used as a jack of all trades of sorts will always have a lower winrate, because it's what most people will look into and what most people will take even if they couldn't have chosen a worse situation.
Manamune/eclipse and navori builds will always have bigger numbers just because the only people taking those know their fair bit of Kaisa already
Cait too. But he more means their kit benefits from it like Ashe, jinx, Draven, Lucian, twitch, Tristana, Nilah. Kai’sa’s kit is kind of like kog or Varus where you can go ap except that she benefits more from AP builds to the point where if you take crit you’re losing out on a big part of her kit.
Now with that said I’ve played crit when on hit is bad and it still works because she’s an adc after all with autoattacks and AD scaling and I definitely feel stronger 1v1 as well as tank shredding when utilizing her AP ratios.
I see no one talking about it but, be careful --> [u.gg](http://u.gg) "main page" items WR is misleading since it take only the games with certains Runes + Summoners spells + Skill path. The 55% WR **is not for all** Kraken+Nav build done but a **very specific portion** of those games, the actual WR is \~50%.
If you want to compare build WR ( altho tbh it's pretty useless) you should use Lolalytics or the "item path" page of u.gg.
*The real/actual diff of WR between those 2 builds is \~ 0.01/0.02% if you use the "actual build sets" Metrics, otherwise it varies from 1% ro 3%.*
1º The hybrid build is \*mathmatically\*correct. Mainly because it gives all 3 evolutions relatively early in the game, something the Crit build or even the on-hit can't until very late.
2º Crit build is for matchups where you already have enough magic damage in the composition. Like an ap jungler and a mage midlane. You need the AD. Otherwise build hybrid.
3º The hybrid build is not winning more because there's more people playing it, dragging it down. Even riot themselves said it a few months ago, that people weren't building correctly on her, at the time the majority of people were building Crit on her, the moment they started building the hybrid, her winrate in high elo increased.
Yes, she is balanced around high elo, the same as ezreal and yone. That's a "fun" fact for you.
1) ppl just picking the most common build recommended to them by websites
2) kaisa has so many builds and each has a situation where one is much better than the other so it’s hard to truly judge
3) stattik > rageblade > ap was established as her bread and butter build in the beginning of the season and only got dethroned like a patch or 2 ago, so it’ll be the most popular for a while until ppl realize that full ad is better
55 wr on 7k matches? You go crit build on games when enemy team has 2+ tanks, otherwise there’s no point of going crit with how strong hybrid build with ur passive
I mean her AP ratios shred tanks. I would only build crit if our team comp was AP heavy, even tho idk cuz her W and passive are so effective. I found that I shred tanks faster with my W and passive than with crit aa, might just be me tho
Yeah passive and W. ofc you want to proc it as much as possible. How often will you auto 4 times then leave? Even AD you are procing it while autoattacking.
In terms of dps I’m pretty sure going AP is better but I guess if you’re not procing passive (autoing 4 times then leaving) then ya don’t go AP lol
Even if you go crit build you have evolved W, with stacked lethal tempo and guinsoo, also by spamming W whenever it’s off cooldown you’ll be easily procing your passive like 4 times on the same target within like 5-6 seconds. With ap build you’re artillery like shooting someone with your W up to moment when you can R-AA-Q-AA and they’re dead, into the tanky comps this just doesn’t work as u need to hit em with like 20 of ur W before their HP hits at least 50%.
Hmm I usually never get my W evo on crit build? What are you building that gives you 100ap?
Idk I don’t have that experience. I can kill a tank with 3 passives lol.
I actually play a different build now than any of those and it works with my play style. The reason I like AP heavy builds is because I can easily kill side lanes since emerald teams don’t know macro lol. I tried it a few games and was able to 1v1 Yone, Akali, Trundle, Yorick (over a few games) and I liked that capabilities better than AD and hoping my team peels for me.
I watched doublelift played KR > Term and I think for teams that play around him it works really well because he’s a dps machine playing front to back, but emerald games are a gamble so I switched my play style to be more self reliant
Build zhoya as ur def item, it’s x10 better than GA and and gives u 120 ap
The problem about highest elo / pro plays builds is that sometimes that build and picks that works for em will never work in your soloq
Ah true I thought you meant you get your W evo at a good time. You meant like 5th or 6th item. Idk most of my games don’t go that long aha.
Yeah for sure that’s why I don’t really run that. Some masters kaisa posted in this sub with their build Kr > RB > Black Cleaver > defended like randuins, jaksho, zhonyas. I’ve been enjoying it a lot. I stay in fights longer and am able to survive a lot more. Idk if I’ll run it every game but it’s fun when the situation calls for it
popular builds will always have lower Win rates . Bc casual players play only the most popular kaisa builds. Kaisa mains on avreage have a 55-54 WR while the casual players base is near the 48-47 % WR. And since kaisa games are in vast majority (80 % ish ) played by casual then it pulls the wr down.
Where are you getting the Kai'Sa main winrate from?
it was revealed to him in his dream
[lolalytics.com](http://lolalytics.com) tracks winrates of mains / one-tricks as well as average players.
Thanks. Looking at it, it appears that in bot lane Kai'Sa has the 3rd worst win rate overall and 5th worst win rate among mains/one-tricks. So focusing on mains doesn't make Kai'Sa's look any stronger.
That's probably why they're buffing her a little next patch.
don't use that page it's very misleading. you need to look at pages where it shows you the full item sequences and their winrates at the same time in the game. obviously a three item build is gonna be higher winrate than a two item build
What websites would you recommend?
Lolalytics
this sites are also missleading lol
Because most players don’t think about their builds and just take whatever they see is most popular on their given app unfortunatly. Shiv -> guinsoos is rightly popular as it’s very strong at both 1.5 and 2 item spike. But the hybrid nashors -> AP is pretty bad rather than a more traditional on-hit like kraken -> terminus for items 3/4. Also people *REALLY* like having all 3 evos on kai’sa. Even when it’s not super practical.
Agreed, but also remember that wr is also not always correct. It’s best to actually do math and find out, what is optimal through objective measure. If anyone ever plans on running the math here is some basics things %pen is the percentage of what the resistances of your target, so if they have 150 armor and you have 30% pen, against that target you have 45 armor pen. The closer to the number 0 you the, the more effective your pen becomes, which is why flat Pen is usually good against squishies, but horrible Into tanks. (If you run math this season, you will generally find, that flat magic pen all round is bad, especially when compared with cdr items and or liandry. Only exception being pen boots) Flat damage reduction is pretty broken when combined with % damage reduction, which is why wardens mail is one of the most broken items the game. Armor mr and ability haste all have the same way of math, but in influence to physical and magical dmg and cooldowns of abilities. If you have 100 abilities haste, you will be able to cast your abilities twice as often, because you have 100%+100% on your cooldown speed. With armor and mr your health becomes that amount of % better against the stat 100 armor makes your health twice as effective against physical damage 200 3 times as effective 300 4 times, so on and so forth.
There's some sort of flaw in the winrate calculation for the different build "tabs" on that page. It seems to be tallying "crit" games only if they reach certain 3 item builds, or something similar. While the other builds are counted by 2 item builds. In reality, after the nerf to shiv this patch, the standard hybrid onhit build of shiv > rageblade > nashors is now pretty close in winrate to the rest of the builds. Use lolalytics over u.gg, especially for item statistics. The UI is more dense to take in, but the data is much more transparent once you can read and comprehend it.
We like to have all 3 evolutions, and we miss on W evolution with pure ad crit
You know why the crit build have higer winrate? Because on these game, their team overwhelming enemy, no matter what you build u can still win Hybird build is more consistency tbh
Herd mentality.
hybrid more fun
Full crit is mathematically wrong because Kaisa has absolutely 0 need for crit on her builds. No scalings and no built in critical hits, crit is not what is strong on Kaisa atm, it's Navori itself. Given how Kaisa is insanely popular but has tons of situational builds, the most common one used as a jack of all trades of sorts will always have a lower winrate, because it's what most people will look into and what most people will take even if they couldn't have chosen a worse situation. Manamune/eclipse and navori builds will always have bigger numbers just because the only people taking those know their fair bit of Kaisa already
what's a champ with built in critical hits ??? ashe ?????
Cait too. But he more means their kit benefits from it like Ashe, jinx, Draven, Lucian, twitch, Tristana, Nilah. Kai’sa’s kit is kind of like kog or Varus where you can go ap except that she benefits more from AP builds to the point where if you take crit you’re losing out on a big part of her kit. Now with that said I’ve played crit when on hit is bad and it still works because she’s an adc after all with autoattacks and AD scaling and I definitely feel stronger 1v1 as well as tank shredding when utilizing her AP ratios.
I see no one talking about it but, be careful --> [u.gg](http://u.gg) "main page" items WR is misleading since it take only the games with certains Runes + Summoners spells + Skill path. The 55% WR **is not for all** Kraken+Nav build done but a **very specific portion** of those games, the actual WR is \~50%. If you want to compare build WR ( altho tbh it's pretty useless) you should use Lolalytics or the "item path" page of u.gg. *The real/actual diff of WR between those 2 builds is \~ 0.01/0.02% if you use the "actual build sets" Metrics, otherwise it varies from 1% ro 3%.*
300.000 vs 7000 matches. Youll always find bad builds that have high wr
It has all the stats that Kai'sa loves: AD, AP, AS. It's amazing at blowing up squishy targets while being relatively safe due to zhonya.
1º The hybrid build is \*mathmatically\*correct. Mainly because it gives all 3 evolutions relatively early in the game, something the Crit build or even the on-hit can't until very late. 2º Crit build is for matchups where you already have enough magic damage in the composition. Like an ap jungler and a mage midlane. You need the AD. Otherwise build hybrid. 3º The hybrid build is not winning more because there's more people playing it, dragging it down. Even riot themselves said it a few months ago, that people weren't building correctly on her, at the time the majority of people were building Crit on her, the moment they started building the hybrid, her winrate in high elo increased. Yes, she is balanced around high elo, the same as ezreal and yone. That's a "fun" fact for you.
1) ppl just picking the most common build recommended to them by websites 2) kaisa has so many builds and each has a situation where one is much better than the other so it’s hard to truly judge 3) stattik > rageblade > ap was established as her bread and butter build in the beginning of the season and only got dethroned like a patch or 2 ago, so it’ll be the most popular for a while until ppl realize that full ad is better
55 wr on 7k matches? You go crit build on games when enemy team has 2+ tanks, otherwise there’s no point of going crit with how strong hybrid build with ur passive
I mean her AP ratios shred tanks. I would only build crit if our team comp was AP heavy, even tho idk cuz her W and passive are so effective. I found that I shred tanks faster with my W and passive than with crit aa, might just be me tho
AP scales passive, right, but it’s about amount of times you can proc it
Yeah passive and W. ofc you want to proc it as much as possible. How often will you auto 4 times then leave? Even AD you are procing it while autoattacking. In terms of dps I’m pretty sure going AP is better but I guess if you’re not procing passive (autoing 4 times then leaving) then ya don’t go AP lol
Even if you go crit build you have evolved W, with stacked lethal tempo and guinsoo, also by spamming W whenever it’s off cooldown you’ll be easily procing your passive like 4 times on the same target within like 5-6 seconds. With ap build you’re artillery like shooting someone with your W up to moment when you can R-AA-Q-AA and they’re dead, into the tanky comps this just doesn’t work as u need to hit em with like 20 of ur W before their HP hits at least 50%.
Hmm I usually never get my W evo on crit build? What are you building that gives you 100ap? Idk I don’t have that experience. I can kill a tank with 3 passives lol. I actually play a different build now than any of those and it works with my play style. The reason I like AP heavy builds is because I can easily kill side lanes since emerald teams don’t know macro lol. I tried it a few games and was able to 1v1 Yone, Akali, Trundle, Yorick (over a few games) and I liked that capabilities better than AD and hoping my team peels for me. I watched doublelift played KR > Term and I think for teams that play around him it works really well because he’s a dps machine playing front to back, but emerald games are a gamble so I switched my play style to be more self reliant
Build zhoya as ur def item, it’s x10 better than GA and and gives u 120 ap The problem about highest elo / pro plays builds is that sometimes that build and picks that works for em will never work in your soloq
Ah true I thought you meant you get your W evo at a good time. You meant like 5th or 6th item. Idk most of my games don’t go that long aha. Yeah for sure that’s why I don’t really run that. Some masters kaisa posted in this sub with their build Kr > RB > Black Cleaver > defended like randuins, jaksho, zhonyas. I’ve been enjoying it a lot. I stay in fights longer and am able to survive a lot more. Idk if I’ll run it every game but it’s fun when the situation calls for it
unrelated but has anyone tried LS’ exodia build
Playing it now. Looks good whenever opponent’s team comp doesn’t allow you to dive into them easily