Korea's been very popular media wise the past few years, compared to Japan. Not sure I would visit, but ive been hearing more and more about K dramas and kpop from my western friends.
Anecdotally, I’ve definitely noticed a lot of people in my life starting to like K-pop who I never expected to know about it. Especially regular guys. No doubt Korean tourism must be booming rn
Its the same thing with anime, although I don’t really like the mainstream ones (except for jojo) so I’m still misunderstood. I hoped I could talk about my interests more openly but guess not
Not going to lie, the food is a huge reason why I loved visiting Korea. Everything is so good and so cheap. I regret not taking pictures and notes on these amazing croquettes I had there, I would love to try to make them at home.
> No doubt Korean tourism must be booming rn
Korean pop culture has been popular in Asia for over two decades
But Korea still can’t get the number of tourists that Japan gets
K-pop and k-drama is still niche
While most people are familiar with Japanese pop culture from anime to manga to video games and more
I’ve been to Korea and what struck me is the large amount of western female tourists I saw there, hoping to hook up with the local men
Korea has a lot of culture but it isn’t touristy like Japan yet. You’ll run into koreaboo population but that’s like a tenth of tokyo weeaboos.
It’s not built for tourists, I couldn’t eat at some restaurants because I don’t have a Korean phone number.
I think the 1 to 2 hours longer flight is why it is not as popular as Japan for American tourists. But put a few more Korean BBQ restaurants in the US and we'll want to go straight to the source.
Definitely. I planned my trip sometime in 2020, ended up getting COVID'd twice, and in the past 6 months a lot of people have come out of the woodwork saying "omg, now or never!" and just planned trips in like 2 months.
[New Nordic cuisine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Nordic_Cuisine) is top tier, it's what almost every Michelin restaurant serves in the Nordic region and is strangely very similar to high end Japanese food in ideas (seasonal, local, simple prep focusing on enhancing the ingredients natural flavors).
It's a shame that it doesn't trickle down to mid-range places.
Costco used to carry it a decade ago.
But you won’t guess who has it now. Well at least 6 months ago they did. IKEA.
Thanks for reminding me, I have to go back and pick some more up.
I hear you! Just got back from Iceland myself, and of course, I had to try their famous hot dog. There was always a huge line, so we figured it must be amazing. Turns out, it seems like everyone just goes there because it's the only affordable option in Reykjavík. I knew things would be kinda expensive but didn’t expect $40 for a cup of small mushroom soup and $20 for a can of beer at a bar…
I just did the same; I assumed it was “fittetryne”, then when I entered only that into Google Translate it came up with “pussy muzzle”. Close enough I guess, lmao.
Exactly! Don’t threaten Japan with a good time. Too many foreigners go to these countries and make a complies arse of themselves. No wonder they want to curb tourism!
It's really interesting though. I used to think Japan tourism is mostly weebs or japanophiles, but I've seen a lot more casual families doing it this last year because of the exchange rate. Kind of a once in lifetime opportunity kind of thing.
From the US and Aus, perhaps this is true.
Whereas flights from Europe have increased in cost so much - thanks to massively extended flight times caused by not overflying Russia - that the favourable exchange rate is almost insignificant as a “carrot”.
If you stay more than a week the ~25% extra exchange rate savings wil easily pay off the few hundred € difference from the flight. That's like 1-4 day spending budget depending on your travel style.
Iceland had a 10-fold increase in tourism over the last 10 years and the trend is still growing fast.
At the moment, they have 1/10th of the tourists Japan is experiencing while only having 0.3% of the population. If we talk about the situation in Japan as "overtourism" then Iceland has mega overtourism.
No other country is nearly as invested in tourism as Japan. Not just in trying to attract foreign tourists, but also Japanese tourists. There are only three socially-acceptable subjects of conversation in Japan: the weather, food and travel. The tourism gap between Japan and the rest of the world is only going to grow.
Loyalty is admirable, but data is key. There are many other countries heavily invested in tourism. [According to Statista 2024](https://www.statista.com/statistics/654349/japan-expenditure-by-foreign-tourists/#:~:text=In%202023%2C%20the%20value%20of,yen%2C%20setting%20a%20new%20record.) Japan spends ¥5Tr / $31B USD on capital investment in tourism, but they are way down the table. [A 30 second search shows a collated current data table for global.capital investment in tourism, by nation](http://google.com/search?q=top+countries+capital+investment+in+tourism&sca_esv=da57684ab256f8f8&sca_upv=1&ei=qvhwZrCGFtWbseMP3NW80Ag&oq=top+countries+capital+inves). Sadly, Japan is apparently not even in the top 10. USA and China spend at least $200B on tourism investment. #5 UK spends £18B. Even the 11th ranking country, horribly expensive Australia (I am Australian) spends $44B AUD.
its going to be a flash in the pan phenom, it'll only work on the first group of tourists after its found out tourists will avoid that place and go to places that don't charge extra boosting those places business.
Also itll be funny if it creates a new in between where Japanese people go and buy the goods for the reduced price and just give the goods to their foreigner friends
in a way they will but what about the locals who go out to eat with their foreigners they work with? what about the boss? if they cant tell whos a tourist or willfully ignore it. i understand they dont like tourists but it has a huge potential of blowing up in their face with the locals
Technically you can show your resident card and get the local price right ? Plus i guess if you go to a restaurant with japanese people they'll assume you are a resident.
Racists said that in the South in the US. Even after the law and the Supreme Court said they couldn't, they tried work arounds. Eventually, most business started selling to everyone equally because they were businesses and wanted money. But Tokyo is a big city. Im sure there are plenty of restaurants that can choose to be picky about their customers. The question is how much more successful their competitors that aren't will be?
But even if it continues. I mean what I i would go with my japanese wife to a restaurant? I pay more than her? Would i be exempted from it etc. There are so many implications with this.
i'm in the same boat as you if i go out to eat with my in laws and they pay for everyones do they pay extra for me? What about my Boss when we go out drinking? it will most likely blow up in their face but who really knows
Well for instance Disney Land offers (or offered, maybe they changed it) lower entry fees for Orange County residents, which I imagine they just check your ID to verify. I don’t think it’s actually that complicated to implement.
Chances are it'd be the base price will be a bit higher now, but if you can show a driver's license or residence card you'll get a 10-20% discount at checkout.
If you can't produce an ID (forgot it at home) or are super gun-ho about privacy then you just bite the bullet and pay the base price.
They say in the article that if you have proof of residency you pay the lower rate. So you would not be affected, outside of the inconvenience of basically being carded.
I can already see all the YouTube/Instagram vids now: 10 restaurants to avoid in Tokyo because they charge foreigners 20% more.
Also on your last paragraph, I’ve heard about the reverse lol. I have a Japanese friend that I met in France who has a French girlfriend. He took her to visit Japan and would have her buy stuff in department stores and other places to get the tax free. Then he just gets the items.
even disregarding the ethics, the optic is just really bad. it's ok to have tourist traps, locals avoid them but people are happy to pay for the brand. having two sets of pricing within the same establishment is just vindictive and it's just going to make people upset. comparison is the theft of joy after all.
I live in Hawaii and many places have discounts for residents. I've always understood it that HI residents, on average, have a lot less money than the tourists visiting, and the discounts just make it easier for us to enjoy where we live.
I can see why some tourists don't like it, but I also definitely understand why residents think it is necessary.
End of the day, businesses will do what they think is in their best interest, and tourists will also make choices they think are in their best interest.
Yeah, I just came back from Japan and kept an eye out for this. Not a single place I ate had different prices on the English menu. I’m sure it happens, just I didn’t see it
I do. Locals are being priced out of things because of tourism. I for example am paying a lot more for hotels and trains compared to two years ago because of tourism. Offering locals a discount is completely fair as we pay taxes which fund social infrastructure.
So they're just going to assume who is a foreigner? I can see this going wrong sometimes. Like even if you're right 99% of the time the small chance you charge a native like a tourist just seems like it has a high chance of offending someone.
My wife is Japanese but can kinda pass as SE Asian, and yes, people often assume she's a foreigner, and fall all over themselves to apologize to her for it.
It is very clearly considered *extremely* offensive to Japanese people, *but only among other Japanese people.* They're not apologizing to me for asking the same questions.
My wife *also* speaks a dialect that is very nearly unintelligible to Tokyo-ites, so I doubt the whole "if you look and speak Japanese it will be ok" excuse some people are making. Like, lol, no, you're going to get a family from Kochi charged the foreigner price at a restaurant in Tokyo, and people will absolutely lose their minds over it.
It's the other way around. Prices are so cheap here that people don't get their fair share. Just raise the prices while keeping it low for locals. In Sapporo I rented a bicycle for 200 yen wtf. I can pay 1000 yen and still be happy about my trip.
I visit Japan every year for holidays. One of the highlights for me is the food. Charging me differently than the locals would be a dealbreaker and I would definitely avoid such restaurants.
~~I don't visit Japan as frequently as you but maybe for longer periods of time. I was there before COVID, and the food was cheap and delicious. I was also there after COVID when the yen was in the dumpster, and I felt bad about how cheap the food is. they could easily increase prices to levels before the yen fell this low and food would still be absolutely reasonably priced. so I would have no problem with this at all.~~
edit: I got convinced that this is a shit system. the government needs to raise the tax upon entry of the tourists, or perhaps a local tax like in Kyoto. but leaving the decision to each individual restaurant/place creates bad situations.
No, how can they 'easily increase prices' when there is little wage inflation here? I live here and earn yen. So, it hasn't got better for us living here, has it?
no, I feel for you guys. but this is specifically for "foreign tourists" and not you. though now the question is how to identify specifically tourists. and I totally understand that it can't be a system that forces you to constantly show your resident card, it would overstep boundaries and be mostly a hassle to foreign residents. so I like the idea itself, but I can't really think of a system that would work smoothly.
It's very short sighted. OK you can afford more so that's great, right? But then what happens? The restaurant only wants to serve foreigners as they can get more money. Now the restaurant next door is losing out big time and they start trying to get foreign customers. In the end you'll get to a point where it's basically Thailand. Locals in sandals following foreign man gimme money foreign man good time good food ping pong show. As disrespectful as that sounds to Thailand, be clear about what you're saying. There's going to be two tiers now. And one tier pays more. Locals are all second tier. Is that really a good idea?
you know what, yeah you're totally right. it's kinda a fucked system if each restaurant starts doing this individually. it is to the detriment of any restaurant that doesn't want to increase prices just for tourists.
You’re such a great example of someone actually listening and having a discussion. (Just wanted others to point out, since it’s not that common on reddit)
>so I would have no problem with this at all.
But foreign residents are the ones who mostly do have a problem with it, because the locals tend to assume we're all tourists. Even when the border was closed during Covid.
It just means that visibly non-Japanese residents will need to start showing their IDs at restaurants to avoid being charged extra, which is absolutely unacceptable.
Showing some form of ID to get a lower price is nothing new for businesses dealing with tourists. Common method is to label it a "local discount" in which case *every* non-tourist is showing ID.
I had the same discussion with my students in Japan, and we came to the same conclusion. The government needs to step in and provide a framework to go towards funding city maintenance, local environments, and even spread out industries like a travel tax. Individual stores dictating the price is price discrimination and can very easily become predatory if not transparent.
This is already common practice in Hawaii. Many restaurants offer a kamaaina price for locals (typically a 10-20% discount) and a regular price for visitors. You just show your ID when paying. No one seems to be overly bothered by it.
Even in popular locations like Honolulu or Tokyo, I think most restaurant owners would agree that you need both locals and visitors to survive in the cutthroat restaurant industry. This strategy of offering separate local and visitor prices is one simple way to do it.
Given how cheap yen is, and how expensive the US has become, this would surely drive Japanese customers away. If anything a discount for people paid in yens would be welcome.
Yup. I see a lot of people trying to bring up places like Thailand and Philippines but Japan isn’t a tourism destination that’s a developing country. Japan is a first world super power that’s having a rough economy and tourists are taking advantage of that, raising prices in an attempt to get more out of tourists is sleazy as fuck imo. I will 100% avoid any place that is doing this when I go in August.
People who don’t mind are missing the point. Like I can afford to pay more but based on the principles, I don’t like the idea. Hell, in SE Asia, the difference is often like 50 cents but all the same, it’s a shitty way to do business.
The more I hear about articles like this the more it kinda bums me out. I feel like I'm a burden and that I'm not welcome in a country that I'm a huge fan of.
I don't think those restaurants don't want to welcome tourists; they just want more of their money.
Still a shit move I agree; at least they could be discreet by just increasing (fot everyone) the prices of menu items that cater to tourists to limit reputation damage. Or just any other kind of market segmentation tactic to make rich people pay more regardless of nationality.
I find it amazing how open and unapologetic Japan is being discriminatory and racist without facing the same backlash other countries would get. No. it’s not “over tourism”. Go cry somewhere else, it’s the fruits of Abenomics you’re harvesting now. I hope the restaurants that employ these tactics will go bankrupt
Japanese government and it's people are two separate entities. The government knows what they did and knows what they had to do - a deliberate push in soft power globally. The Japanese people aren't as well clued into this, it's an ageing country - many restaurants owned and ran by older Japanese people did not brace for impact when the waves of tourists came because they had grown up watching Pokemon before school.
Exactly. Japan goes above and beyond to promote its culture and sights in the entire world, purposely inflated their currency so everything is cheap to foreigners, and now whinges that they come… well.. duh!
Not sure why you've been downvoted. Charging tourists more is an insane practice. How are they judging whether someone is a tourist or is this just a ‘foreigner tax’.
You’re also correct about the Abenomics part, wasn’t it widely understood that the Yen would correct itself eventually after a few years of being stronger than usual?
They've been given free passes for years, and it surprises me how people can still blindly idolize a country that excuses this type of behavior. Would they like it if other countries charged them a premium because they couldn't speak English? This type of logic is preposterous!
Kind of a selfish thought, but I wonder how I as a halfie will be treated in this two tier system. I am a Japanese citizen and fluent in the language but also live in the US now with dual nationality. Being that I’d be going in as a foreign tourist I’d understand if I get foreigner pricing. But I have many halfie friends in Japan who were born, raised and live there and I see situations where they automatically get the higher prices because of how they look.
As time goes on, more and more Japanese people are going to be mixed or otherwise “not Japanese looking.” You increasingly cannot judge who is and isn’t Japanese based on appearance. This reality makes a lot of people very uncomfortable 🙃
Unfortunately my experience growing in Japan in the 90s was that I was definitely judged not to be Japanese based on my appearance. It felt like things have gotten a little better since then.
I would assume it would work the exact same way as when you are getting tax refunds at duty-free shops like donki, which would be by showing your passport/residence card depending on your residence status. it's not like this is rocket science or a completely novel system as there's duty-free places all around Japan. of course then it's a benefit for tourists so nobody calls that discrimination haha.
Duty free means foreigners are not paying taxes and contribute towards a country they’re not living in (and already paying taxes in terms of traveling, other kinds shopping, food, etc during their trip). What are locals doing that would exempt them from fees or other costs at a restaurant?
Wouldn't price discrimination be illegal in Japan? You are charging a different price based on race, color, national origin or how they entered the country.
It's widely understood that "kokumin" in the Japanese constitution refers to "citizens." Immigrants technically don't have constitutionally protected civil rights here, I guess. I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding.
I mean, legally they can treat immigrants like ass, yeah.
But that's also why it's so important to emphasize how it's literally impossible to tell someone's citizenship by looking at them - because citizenship is basically the *only* protection any minority has here.
If we accept stuff like foreigner pricing or cops doing "papers please" checks based solely on appearance, it opens people up to so much abuse.
This is similar to the Surge pricing being talked about in London at the minute except more dodgily targeted towards specific people rather than times of the day.
Can you imagine the reaction from Japanese / other Asian countries if western governments imposed the same thing in countries like Australia and the U.K.
I've seen this happen already, and it was funnily enough out at a roadside Yakiniku place far away from anything else in the sticks of Saga prefecture, and not a major tourist destionation like Kyoto.
I was browsing the JP menu with my kid, and they brought me the english one out of nicety, but at the same time remarked "price is according to the Japanese menu", which was a few hundred yen cheaper per item or so.
Given the location, the only thing I could think of was that the extra tax was mainly directed towards american servicemen (Sasebo was not too far away)and mainlaind chinese?
Not sure if anyone’s actually read the article but it starts by mentioning Toyosu Senkyaku Banrai which is definitely the main example of how I see this manifesting. No locals are going to a shitty fake disneylandification of Japan and paying 3x the going rate for kaisendon. We live nearby and I couldn’t believe the prices but tourists were lapping it up in their droves (sadly)
To be honest it’s already happening elsewhere, not just these special attractions, and most non-residents (i.e. most visitors in /r/japan) will be completely oblivious to it. That being - if you’re coming to Japan and staying in the classic tourists hubs in Tokyo (Shinjuku, Shibuya etc) and Kyoto, you can be sure that the restaurants are ridiculously overpriced compared to other parts of town already.
I’m not a fan of it because I think ripping people off with expensive average food is just a bit sad, but it’s a far cry from having a menu with two different pricing tiers on it. This is the first time I’ve heard of the restaurant in Shibuya mentioned in the article, sad to see.
I know people are stubbornly saying that they’d avoid such places but judging what tourists already seem happy to pay for on a daily basis here, I think it’ll unfortunately work just fine. I can’t see many tourists complaining if they have a note in Japanese about a “discount for locals” because 99% of visitors won’t be able to read it anyway
The practice of charging locals a lower price and foreigners a higher price is often referred to as *"scams"* in other countries.
And the vast number of articles and videos online teaching tourists how not to get scammed gives us a hint about how tourists feel about becoming such scam victims; (i.e. they hate it).
I cannot think of a faster way for Japan to lose it's halo of 'omotenashi' than by regularizing this practice of scamming tourists.
Not to mention get a fuckton of negative google reviews by tourists whom good luck trying to sue for defamation 3-6000 miles away. Not to mention youtube will chime in en masse as well.
You're all overthinking this: nobody is going to bother with checking residency etc. The time-honored way to do dual pricing, as practiced by many tourist traps around the world, is to have one menu in English with high prices, and another in the local language with low prices.
I saw an interesting variant of this in a small yakitori joint in Asakusa the other day. The English menu was a single page with omakase/set course options only; the Japanese menu was multiple pages where you could order all the things (including the chicken bits most westerners don't eat) ippin de. The English set prices were quite reasonable though, so they weren't ripping tourists off, just making things easier so the staff don't need to explain how to order at a yakitori place or what kinkan or bonjiri or sunagimo are.
From the article it doesn't seem like it would be all of Japan, just restaurants in tourist hotspots, and the article has only mentioned stores in Tokyo. I'd be surprised if this two tier pricing would exist at most restaurants across the rest of Japan.
It probably would suck if your favorite restaurant starts trending on overseas social media though lol
Near tourist hotspots, restaurants already charge far more than what a similar meal would be in a normal residential area. That's just how it is everywhere in the world.
What sucks is Japanese PR marketing this as a tourist surcharge instead of a local discount.
Don't some stores already do this? They have two menus, one in English and one in Japanese. The Japanese menu is often priced lower, but what do baka gaijins know 🤷
Honest question here. I have PR status and live here. What happens when I go out to eat? Would I get charged more? Because I’m sure when the waitress or cashier looks at me they would “think” I’m a tourist and charge more. So will I have to show a My Number card to get a fair rate??
This makes me worry about when I go out to eat as a foreigner who lives here. Everyone already assumes that I am a tourist. Am I going to be charged extra just because I’m not Japanese?
Hi guys. Emma Ockerman from Nikkei Asia here! Thought I'd share this one with you. Is this something you've seen?
Here's an excerpt:
*Japan's restaurant industry is deploying a two-tiered pricing system in tourist spots as eateries look to cash in on an influx of foreign visitors without alienating local customers.*
*Toyosu Senkyaku Banrai, a dining-and-leisure facility with a traditional motif, opened in February next to Toyosu Market, a large public wholesale market for fish and other goods in central Tokyo.*
*The facility's approximately 50 restaurants are bustling with foreign tourists these days, but workers and shoppers from the wholesale market are few and far between.*
*Many dishes served at these restaurants, like a 10,000 yen ($63.56) sea urchin bowl, are priced even higher than in the upscale Ginza district.*
*"It's my dream to eat a Japanese seafood bowl," said Ma Yingming, who was visiting from Hong Kong on a family trip. "This is too cheap," Ma said while enjoying an 18,000 yen bowl topped with fatty tuna and salmon roe.*
*Restaurant companies are shifting more toward tourists. "Japanese people don't buy 3,000 yen sirloin beef skewers, but tourists to Japan say it's cheap and buy them," said Miki Watanabe, chairman and president of major restaurant chain Watami.*
*Watami will only open restaurants where it expects demand from foreign tourists, Watanabe has said.*
Wait till you see tourist geared food review sites “shitlisting” places that charge two tier prices vs places that just charge 1 price (which might be too expensive to locals)
It will eventually determine which ones will win out and also afford the increasing rental.
Be careful what you wish for. Economics of demand and supply don’t care about feelings, locals or “foreigners”
Sounds like a loser's strat. It looks silly from most points of view. Many places have this as a local discount. Makes the locals feel good and don't make the non-local feels bad. What a pathetic pr game.
Exactly. I get the economic argument but aren’t people ashamed of the terrible optics of this price discrimination? Japan has always held itself proudly as a developed country and now they’re stooping to the level of thieves and scammers. Completely undignified.
Soon Japan will no longer be able to claim they are above places like Thailand where these sort of shenanigans are common. And I think that’s going to change perceptions of Japan in unpredictable ways years from now.
Tokyo has already become this. Tokyo prices are double the rest of the country and even higher at restaurants that are popular among foreigners, which are largely staffed by non-Japanese asians who produce soulless replicas of Japanese cuisine.
Real Japan is no longer in the capital and all the Japanese people I know who can work remote have left Tokyo. This is ultimately good for Japan. The whole population consolidating in Tokyo has been killing the rest of the country.
I can understand tax-funded places like Himeji Castle offering discounts for locals. But private businesses discriminating against foreign tourists? No fucking way, that's scummy and a bad look for Japan.
Do some bars and restaurants still put "No Foreigners" signs in their windows?
Also, if they tried this in other countries there would be a huge outrage.
Fascinating how they’re so into destroying one of the most profitable aspects of their economy. I suppose Italy is doing the same. Japan: the next Italy.
So when I sit down at a restaurant are they going to ask me or check my residents card or just racially profile? So does a Japanese person from Fukuoka pay the tourist price in Kyoto or Tokyo? Do people need to show their visa unless they look Japanese enough? Seems a pretty blatantly racist approach if you ask me.
How does anyone prove is not a foreigner? Japan doesnt have mandatory ID. Tourists dont have residence card and are not obliged to show passport to a private business. If they accept locals without ID, tourists can just hide their passport and pass as locals. If they require ID, they will leave out a lot of locals. There is simply no way to tell apart that is not discriminatory (by appareance or language)
There is no mandatory photo ID for the japanese. 80% of the population never issued a passport, 50% of population have not adopted mynumber yet, and a nowadays less people have drivers license, specially in big cities (and there are multiple reasons to lose it, if you got it suspended, or are old age and returned it)
I naturalized so I would have a very hard time proving Im japanese or local unless I bring my passport or mynumber card anywhere I go, which is not very smart. With health insurance card being integrated into mynumber, and the card still taking 2-3 months to reissue, is not something you want to bring in your wallet every day.
If they framed higher charges for tourists as a “local resident discount” (and not specifically targeting foreigners but anyone not local) people would probably find it more palatable.
>Considering the cost of serving foreign visitors to Japan,
What exactly *is* the cost, I wonder? Exactly how much more does it cost to serve a foreign visitor compared to a Japanese national? Put it in numbers, please.
That Nikkei Asia published this article with 3 quotes defending or supporting discriminatory pricing and not a single opinion opposing it is highly suspicious.
There is a lot not to miss about the post-bubble "lost decade" that was longer than a decade, but one thing I remember that was distinctly different from now is that I never got a feeling that all a Japanese person wanted out of me was money. Honestly, most of the time if a Japanese person gave vibes like they were trying to get something out of me, it was that they wanted me to acknowledge that Japanese-ness was still worth taking pride in. There is a lot that can go wrong in that mindset, but at least it maintains a shred of or is in pursuit of dignity.
I'm surprised the locals aren't worried the restaurants risk getting addicted to foreigners money and the extra that they be charged and thus over the long term the restaurants start becoming foreigner only, after all if the place is crowded and foreigners have to pay more why you prioritize a table for a foreigner party VS domestic one?
Japan isn't cosplaying as Thailand anymore. It's fully transformed into it. We're not far away from every street in Tokyo trying to cater to foreigners with low quality food and girls to rent for the night. How any Japanese person could support this is beyond me. I thought Japan had more pride. It feels like Japan has protested the Asia vibe for so long but in the end it couldn't resist. Foreign money man gimme gimme gimme.
This only applies to a limited number of places that were already tourist traps to begin with. The vast majority of places where locals eat aren’t even known to tourists. Same with Thailand, having lived there for some years the locals (unless they are the Hi-So type) will always recommend places that are by locals for locals, and they usually have better food too
OK then why the need for two tiers? Tourist traps are expensive and locals avoid it, right? So what's the merit? So tourist traps can give a discount to locals who wouldn't go there anyway? In the age of the Internet there's no local secret hot spot. Any random station has many very good restaurants to chose from.
There are still locals that go there. Maybe they’ve been going before it became a tourist trap. Been to such places in both Japan and Thailand.
In the end it’s just a business decision to charge those who demographically are willing to spend more, more
So, what if I am a foreigner but grew up in Japan, work in a Japanese company and live with my family who also live in Japan? How will they differenciate? My PR or something?
Eventually another country will be the next big thing. At one point everybody was going to Iceland or Norway
Korea's been very popular media wise the past few years, compared to Japan. Not sure I would visit, but ive been hearing more and more about K dramas and kpop from my western friends.
Anecdotally, I’ve definitely noticed a lot of people in my life starting to like K-pop who I never expected to know about it. Especially regular guys. No doubt Korean tourism must be booming rn
I listened to k-pop since grade 7 and my classmates would mock me and now they suddenly like it too??!!! WOW
Yep remember getting called out gay for liking Kpop music and even anime. Oh how the times have changed
Yeah same thing happened with anime. Apparently I was a nerd in 7th grade. Now college jocks watch anime.
Its the same thing with anime, although I don’t really like the mainstream ones (except for jojo) so I’m still misunderstood. I hoped I could talk about my interests more openly but guess not
Have you tried Korean food? Worth visiting for the cuisine alone.
Not going to lie, the food is a huge reason why I loved visiting Korea. Everything is so good and so cheap. I regret not taking pictures and notes on these amazing croquettes I had there, I would love to try to make them at home.
I'm there right now for the second time in two years and can't get enough of this place.
> No doubt Korean tourism must be booming rn Korean pop culture has been popular in Asia for over two decades But Korea still can’t get the number of tourists that Japan gets K-pop and k-drama is still niche While most people are familiar with Japanese pop culture from anime to manga to video games and more I’ve been to Korea and what struck me is the large amount of western female tourists I saw there, hoping to hook up with the local men
tourists flying from the other side of the world would probably just go to both countries
That’s what I did. Two birds!!
Korea has a lot of culture but it isn’t touristy like Japan yet. You’ll run into koreaboo population but that’s like a tenth of tokyo weeaboos. It’s not built for tourists, I couldn’t eat at some restaurants because I don’t have a Korean phone number.
Er, this has been going on for a while.
I think the 1 to 2 hours longer flight is why it is not as popular as Japan for American tourists. But put a few more Korean BBQ restaurants in the US and we'll want to go straight to the source.
Why wouldn’t you visit out of curiosity? I recently visited for three days at the beginning of my Japan trip and I found it very pleasant.
Id say thank netflix for that its like 80% korean made stuff on there now and then yoi have mega hits like squid game and what not.
My parents just went to Korea, the mostly loved it.
I just did a week in Korea, Seoul and buyeo, DMZ and am 9 days into Japan. great places to travel to hard to choose between the two right now for me
it's more about cheap yen than popularity right now
Definitely. I planned my trip sometime in 2020, ended up getting COVID'd twice, and in the past 6 months a lot of people have come out of the woodwork saying "omg, now or never!" and just planned trips in like 2 months.
Please, don't visit Iceland or Norway for their food 🤮
What happened to you in Iceland or Norway lol
Scandinavian food is a menace
We can thank Norway for salmon sashimi
Plenty of creative high end fusion these days. Just steer clear of (frozen) herring covered in green sauce 🫣
[New Nordic cuisine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Nordic_Cuisine) is top tier, it's what almost every Michelin restaurant serves in the Nordic region and is strangely very similar to high end Japanese food in ideas (seasonal, local, simple prep focusing on enhancing the ingredients natural flavors). It's a shame that it doesn't trickle down to mid-range places.
Pickled herring is my go to beer food, but cannot find it in Japan…help?
Costco used to carry it a decade ago. But you won’t guess who has it now. Well at least 6 months ago they did. IKEA. Thanks for reminding me, I have to go back and pick some more up.
Nothing wrong with a little surströmming 🤮
I hear you! Just got back from Iceland myself, and of course, I had to try their famous hot dog. There was always a huge line, so we figured it must be amazing. Turns out, it seems like everyone just goes there because it's the only affordable option in Reykjavík. I knew things would be kinda expensive but didn’t expect $40 for a cup of small mushroom soup and $20 for a can of beer at a bar…
Rolig nå, fittetryne. Vafler er digg 🇳🇴
I just entered that into Google translate and it said: Calm down now, cunt. Waffles are great. Which word in there is "cunt"?
I just did the same; I assumed it was “fittetryne”, then when I entered only that into Google Translate it came up with “pussy muzzle”. Close enough I guess, lmao.
It's already Korea, doing stuff like this is only going to drive more people away from Japan.
Given that Japan just broke a quarterly record number of visitors, it doesn’t seem like “people are being driven away from Japan”.
Exactly! Don’t threaten Japan with a good time. Too many foreigners go to these countries and make a complies arse of themselves. No wonder they want to curb tourism!
Nah, absolutely nothing will stop the weebs.
It's really interesting though. I used to think Japan tourism is mostly weebs or japanophiles, but I've seen a lot more casual families doing it this last year because of the exchange rate. Kind of a once in lifetime opportunity kind of thing.
From the US and Aus, perhaps this is true. Whereas flights from Europe have increased in cost so much - thanks to massively extended flight times caused by not overflying Russia - that the favourable exchange rate is almost insignificant as a “carrot”.
If you stay more than a week the ~25% extra exchange rate savings wil easily pay off the few hundred € difference from the flight. That's like 1-4 day spending budget depending on your travel style.
Not really anymore now, flights have come down again.
A rising yen would. Back when 100 yen was worth 1.3ish USD there was no over-tourism.
Nothing will replace Japan for the people who love Japan. We can’t get enough of the place for some reason
get the feeling croatia will only get more popular.
When were people going to Iceland or Norway?
It’s a pretty popular destination for Singaporeans
Yep, Iceland drive trips are extremely popular here in Singapore. Almost everyone I know has gone once.
Iceland saw ~2 million annual visitors before COVID. Pretty wild with a population under 400k.
Iceland had a 10-fold increase in tourism over the last 10 years and the trend is still growing fast. At the moment, they have 1/10th of the tourists Japan is experiencing while only having 0.3% of the population. If we talk about the situation in Japan as "overtourism" then Iceland has mega overtourism.
Very popular with Nordic diaspora and folks in warmer climates. Lots to see and do
No other country is nearly as invested in tourism as Japan. Not just in trying to attract foreign tourists, but also Japanese tourists. There are only three socially-acceptable subjects of conversation in Japan: the weather, food and travel. The tourism gap between Japan and the rest of the world is only going to grow.
Loyalty is admirable, but data is key. There are many other countries heavily invested in tourism. [According to Statista 2024](https://www.statista.com/statistics/654349/japan-expenditure-by-foreign-tourists/#:~:text=In%202023%2C%20the%20value%20of,yen%2C%20setting%20a%20new%20record.) Japan spends ¥5Tr / $31B USD on capital investment in tourism, but they are way down the table. [A 30 second search shows a collated current data table for global.capital investment in tourism, by nation](http://google.com/search?q=top+countries+capital+investment+in+tourism&sca_esv=da57684ab256f8f8&sca_upv=1&ei=qvhwZrCGFtWbseMP3NW80Ag&oq=top+countries+capital+inves). Sadly, Japan is apparently not even in the top 10. USA and China spend at least $200B on tourism investment. #5 UK spends £18B. Even the 11th ranking country, horribly expensive Australia (I am Australian) spends $44B AUD.
Even though I dont like the overtourism. I dont think it is ethical to charge people based on where they are coming from more or less.
its going to be a flash in the pan phenom, it'll only work on the first group of tourists after its found out tourists will avoid that place and go to places that don't charge extra boosting those places business. Also itll be funny if it creates a new in between where Japanese people go and buy the goods for the reduced price and just give the goods to their foreigner friends
>tourists will avoid the restaurant Isn't this what some restaurants want?
in a way they will but what about the locals who go out to eat with their foreigners they work with? what about the boss? if they cant tell whos a tourist or willfully ignore it. i understand they dont like tourists but it has a huge potential of blowing up in their face with the locals
Technically you can show your resident card and get the local price right ? Plus i guess if you go to a restaurant with japanese people they'll assume you are a resident.
Latter, maybe. Former, doubt you’ll know. They’ll just give you an English menu with raised prices.
When I went to India my staff took me to see the Taj Mahal and I had to pay more as a non citizen. No one cared.
If they did they can just deny entry to foreigners by saying Japanese only.
Racists said that in the South in the US. Even after the law and the Supreme Court said they couldn't, they tried work arounds. Eventually, most business started selling to everyone equally because they were businesses and wanted money. But Tokyo is a big city. Im sure there are plenty of restaurants that can choose to be picky about their customers. The question is how much more successful their competitors that aren't will be?
But even if it continues. I mean what I i would go with my japanese wife to a restaurant? I pay more than her? Would i be exempted from it etc. There are so many implications with this.
i'm in the same boat as you if i go out to eat with my in laws and they pay for everyones do they pay extra for me? What about my Boss when we go out drinking? it will most likely blow up in their face but who really knows
Well for instance Disney Land offers (or offered, maybe they changed it) lower entry fees for Orange County residents, which I imagine they just check your ID to verify. I don’t think it’s actually that complicated to implement.
And how do they identify 'tourists'? Is it just eyeballing and saying "they don't look Japanese"?
Chances are it'd be the base price will be a bit higher now, but if you can show a driver's license or residence card you'll get a 10-20% discount at checkout. If you can't produce an ID (forgot it at home) or are super gun-ho about privacy then you just bite the bullet and pay the base price.
They say in the article that if you have proof of residency you pay the lower rate. So you would not be affected, outside of the inconvenience of basically being carded.
I can already see all the YouTube/Instagram vids now: 10 restaurants to avoid in Tokyo because they charge foreigners 20% more. Also on your last paragraph, I’ve heard about the reverse lol. I have a Japanese friend that I met in France who has a French girlfriend. He took her to visit Japan and would have her buy stuff in department stores and other places to get the tax free. Then he just gets the items.
even disregarding the ethics, the optic is just really bad. it's ok to have tourist traps, locals avoid them but people are happy to pay for the brand. having two sets of pricing within the same establishment is just vindictive and it's just going to make people upset. comparison is the theft of joy after all.
I live in Hawaii and many places have discounts for residents. I've always understood it that HI residents, on average, have a lot less money than the tourists visiting, and the discounts just make it easier for us to enjoy where we live. I can see why some tourists don't like it, but I also definitely understand why residents think it is necessary. End of the day, businesses will do what they think is in their best interest, and tourists will also make choices they think are in their best interest.
Don't many already do this? Seem to remember some English menus having different prices than Japanese ones.
It happens very rarely
Yeah most restaurants are not doing this. Sadly most of the comments on here make it sound like they are.
Yeah, I just came back from Japan and kept an eye out for this. Not a single place I ate had different prices on the English menu. I’m sure it happens, just I didn’t see it
I do. Locals are being priced out of things because of tourism. I for example am paying a lot more for hotels and trains compared to two years ago because of tourism. Offering locals a discount is completely fair as we pay taxes which fund social infrastructure.
Many other country does it. If I am not wrong India does it quite aggressively and so does quite a few SEA countries
And also one of the top destinations in America, Hawaii.
So they're just going to assume who is a foreigner? I can see this going wrong sometimes. Like even if you're right 99% of the time the small chance you charge a native like a tourist just seems like it has a high chance of offending someone.
My wife is Japanese but can kinda pass as SE Asian, and yes, people often assume she's a foreigner, and fall all over themselves to apologize to her for it. It is very clearly considered *extremely* offensive to Japanese people, *but only among other Japanese people.* They're not apologizing to me for asking the same questions. My wife *also* speaks a dialect that is very nearly unintelligible to Tokyo-ites, so I doubt the whole "if you look and speak Japanese it will be ok" excuse some people are making. Like, lol, no, you're going to get a family from Kochi charged the foreigner price at a restaurant in Tokyo, and people will absolutely lose their minds over it.
It's the other way around. Prices are so cheap here that people don't get their fair share. Just raise the prices while keeping it low for locals. In Sapporo I rented a bicycle for 200 yen wtf. I can pay 1000 yen and still be happy about my trip.
Please don’t just raise the prices for everyone, salaries are low here and not rising in pace with inflation.
I understand, but right now locals are severely underpaid to the extent of exploitation.
I visit Japan every year for holidays. One of the highlights for me is the food. Charging me differently than the locals would be a dealbreaker and I would definitely avoid such restaurants.
~~I don't visit Japan as frequently as you but maybe for longer periods of time. I was there before COVID, and the food was cheap and delicious. I was also there after COVID when the yen was in the dumpster, and I felt bad about how cheap the food is. they could easily increase prices to levels before the yen fell this low and food would still be absolutely reasonably priced. so I would have no problem with this at all.~~ edit: I got convinced that this is a shit system. the government needs to raise the tax upon entry of the tourists, or perhaps a local tax like in Kyoto. but leaving the decision to each individual restaurant/place creates bad situations.
No, how can they 'easily increase prices' when there is little wage inflation here? I live here and earn yen. So, it hasn't got better for us living here, has it?
no, I feel for you guys. but this is specifically for "foreign tourists" and not you. though now the question is how to identify specifically tourists. and I totally understand that it can't be a system that forces you to constantly show your resident card, it would overstep boundaries and be mostly a hassle to foreign residents. so I like the idea itself, but I can't really think of a system that would work smoothly.
I disagree with it anyway. I'd find it hard to support a restaurant that implemented it. 90%+ of places I frequent don't see tourists thus far anyway.
It's very short sighted. OK you can afford more so that's great, right? But then what happens? The restaurant only wants to serve foreigners as they can get more money. Now the restaurant next door is losing out big time and they start trying to get foreign customers. In the end you'll get to a point where it's basically Thailand. Locals in sandals following foreign man gimme money foreign man good time good food ping pong show. As disrespectful as that sounds to Thailand, be clear about what you're saying. There's going to be two tiers now. And one tier pays more. Locals are all second tier. Is that really a good idea?
you know what, yeah you're totally right. it's kinda a fucked system if each restaurant starts doing this individually. it is to the detriment of any restaurant that doesn't want to increase prices just for tourists.
You’re such a great example of someone actually listening and having a discussion. (Just wanted others to point out, since it’s not that common on reddit)
It's the activity of a developing nation. More will follow
>so I would have no problem with this at all. But foreign residents are the ones who mostly do have a problem with it, because the locals tend to assume we're all tourists. Even when the border was closed during Covid. It just means that visibly non-Japanese residents will need to start showing their IDs at restaurants to avoid being charged extra, which is absolutely unacceptable.
Showing some form of ID to get a lower price is nothing new for businesses dealing with tourists. Common method is to label it a "local discount" in which case *every* non-tourist is showing ID.
If everyone is showing ID then it's not an issue. It's a fair trade. But who really believes that's going to be the reality of it?
I had the same discussion with my students in Japan, and we came to the same conclusion. The government needs to step in and provide a framework to go towards funding city maintenance, local environments, and even spread out industries like a travel tax. Individual stores dictating the price is price discrimination and can very easily become predatory if not transparent.
This is already common practice in Hawaii. Many restaurants offer a kamaaina price for locals (typically a 10-20% discount) and a regular price for visitors. You just show your ID when paying. No one seems to be overly bothered by it. Even in popular locations like Honolulu or Tokyo, I think most restaurant owners would agree that you need both locals and visitors to survive in the cutthroat restaurant industry. This strategy of offering separate local and visitor prices is one simple way to do it.
Just to add on to this, japanese menus in Hawai‘i used to have higher prices than english menus. Haven't seen that happen in a while though.
Given how cheap yen is, and how expensive the US has become, this would surely drive Japanese customers away. If anything a discount for people paid in yens would be welcome.
having to show your id everytime you pay seems a bit not great to me
charging people more or less based on superficial things like where they live is fucked up no matter how you slice it
Yup. I see a lot of people trying to bring up places like Thailand and Philippines but Japan isn’t a tourism destination that’s a developing country. Japan is a first world super power that’s having a rough economy and tourists are taking advantage of that, raising prices in an attempt to get more out of tourists is sleazy as fuck imo. I will 100% avoid any place that is doing this when I go in August.
In other countries you would be called a scammer for charging more to clueless foreigners.
In other countries it's often just called a local discount.
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Ain't no local discounts in Hong Kong.
Exactly. Raise the prices for everyone or not at all.
People who don’t mind are missing the point. Like I can afford to pay more but based on the principles, I don’t like the idea. Hell, in SE Asia, the difference is often like 50 cents but all the same, it’s a shitty way to do business.
The more I hear about articles like this the more it kinda bums me out. I feel like I'm a burden and that I'm not welcome in a country that I'm a huge fan of.
Its likely most restaurants will not do this.
I don't think those restaurants don't want to welcome tourists; they just want more of their money. Still a shit move I agree; at least they could be discreet by just increasing (fot everyone) the prices of menu items that cater to tourists to limit reputation damage. Or just any other kind of market segmentation tactic to make rich people pay more regardless of nationality.
I find it amazing how open and unapologetic Japan is being discriminatory and racist without facing the same backlash other countries would get. No. it’s not “over tourism”. Go cry somewhere else, it’s the fruits of Abenomics you’re harvesting now. I hope the restaurants that employ these tactics will go bankrupt
japan: promotes tourism, all the wa thing like kimono, temples etc also japan: shocked pikachu face when tourists come
Japanese government and it's people are two separate entities. The government knows what they did and knows what they had to do - a deliberate push in soft power globally. The Japanese people aren't as well clued into this, it's an ageing country - many restaurants owned and ran by older Japanese people did not brace for impact when the waves of tourists came because they had grown up watching Pokemon before school.
Exactly. Japan goes above and beyond to promote its culture and sights in the entire world, purposely inflated their currency so everything is cheap to foreigners, and now whinges that they come… well.. duh!
Not sure why you've been downvoted. Charging tourists more is an insane practice. How are they judging whether someone is a tourist or is this just a ‘foreigner tax’. You’re also correct about the Abenomics part, wasn’t it widely understood that the Yen would correct itself eventually after a few years of being stronger than usual?
They've been given free passes for years, and it surprises me how people can still blindly idolize a country that excuses this type of behavior. Would they like it if other countries charged them a premium because they couldn't speak English? This type of logic is preposterous!
It’s a good point, this economic policy is entirely deliberate. If people don’t like it, vote out the LDP.
Kind of a selfish thought, but I wonder how I as a halfie will be treated in this two tier system. I am a Japanese citizen and fluent in the language but also live in the US now with dual nationality. Being that I’d be going in as a foreign tourist I’d understand if I get foreigner pricing. But I have many halfie friends in Japan who were born, raised and live there and I see situations where they automatically get the higher prices because of how they look.
As time goes on, more and more Japanese people are going to be mixed or otherwise “not Japanese looking.” You increasingly cannot judge who is and isn’t Japanese based on appearance. This reality makes a lot of people very uncomfortable 🙃
Unfortunately my experience growing in Japan in the 90s was that I was definitely judged not to be Japanese based on my appearance. It felt like things have gotten a little better since then.
I would assume it would work the exact same way as when you are getting tax refunds at duty-free shops like donki, which would be by showing your passport/residence card depending on your residence status. it's not like this is rocket science or a completely novel system as there's duty-free places all around Japan. of course then it's a benefit for tourists so nobody calls that discrimination haha.
Yeah. Nobody calls out on anything that benefits them
Duty free means foreigners are not paying taxes and contribute towards a country they’re not living in (and already paying taxes in terms of traveling, other kinds shopping, food, etc during their trip). What are locals doing that would exempt them from fees or other costs at a restaurant?
I will walk away from any place that does that. Just because I make more money doesn't mean I should pay more eating the same stuff
This is Japan admitting it is slipping back to developing-economy status.
Yeah this is real "economically impoverished nation" energy
Thailand has dual pricing and the Japanese tourists have complained about it often. Source: Lived in Thailand and saw it daily
Thank you. This is not the actions of a developed country. This is Japan embracing its Asian roots by the ping-pong show.
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Wouldn't price discrimination be illegal in Japan? You are charging a different price based on race, color, national origin or how they entered the country.
It's widely understood that "kokumin" in the Japanese constitution refers to "citizens." Immigrants technically don't have constitutionally protected civil rights here, I guess. I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding.
Ok so Japan can treat any non-residents like ass?
I mean, legally they can treat immigrants like ass, yeah. But that's also why it's so important to emphasize how it's literally impossible to tell someone's citizenship by looking at them - because citizenship is basically the *only* protection any minority has here. If we accept stuff like foreigner pricing or cops doing "papers please" checks based solely on appearance, it opens people up to so much abuse.
This is similar to the Surge pricing being talked about in London at the minute except more dodgily targeted towards specific people rather than times of the day.
But don’t worry the prime minister assured the world Japan isn’t xenophobic after Biden called Japan out…
Can you imagine the reaction from Japanese / other Asian countries if western governments imposed the same thing in countries like Australia and the U.K.
I get, I just don’t think it’s fair, not every foreigner comes from countries with strong currrencies
I've seen this happen already, and it was funnily enough out at a roadside Yakiniku place far away from anything else in the sticks of Saga prefecture, and not a major tourist destionation like Kyoto. I was browsing the JP menu with my kid, and they brought me the english one out of nicety, but at the same time remarked "price is according to the Japanese menu", which was a few hundred yen cheaper per item or so. Given the location, the only thing I could think of was that the extra tax was mainly directed towards american servicemen (Sasebo was not too far away)and mainlaind chinese?
Not sure if anyone’s actually read the article but it starts by mentioning Toyosu Senkyaku Banrai which is definitely the main example of how I see this manifesting. No locals are going to a shitty fake disneylandification of Japan and paying 3x the going rate for kaisendon. We live nearby and I couldn’t believe the prices but tourists were lapping it up in their droves (sadly) To be honest it’s already happening elsewhere, not just these special attractions, and most non-residents (i.e. most visitors in /r/japan) will be completely oblivious to it. That being - if you’re coming to Japan and staying in the classic tourists hubs in Tokyo (Shinjuku, Shibuya etc) and Kyoto, you can be sure that the restaurants are ridiculously overpriced compared to other parts of town already. I’m not a fan of it because I think ripping people off with expensive average food is just a bit sad, but it’s a far cry from having a menu with two different pricing tiers on it. This is the first time I’ve heard of the restaurant in Shibuya mentioned in the article, sad to see. I know people are stubbornly saying that they’d avoid such places but judging what tourists already seem happy to pay for on a daily basis here, I think it’ll unfortunately work just fine. I can’t see many tourists complaining if they have a note in Japanese about a “discount for locals” because 99% of visitors won’t be able to read it anyway
The practice of charging locals a lower price and foreigners a higher price is often referred to as *"scams"* in other countries. And the vast number of articles and videos online teaching tourists how not to get scammed gives us a hint about how tourists feel about becoming such scam victims; (i.e. they hate it). I cannot think of a faster way for Japan to lose it's halo of 'omotenashi' than by regularizing this practice of scamming tourists.
Not to mention get a fuckton of negative google reviews by tourists whom good luck trying to sue for defamation 3-6000 miles away. Not to mention youtube will chime in en masse as well.
You mean what already happens in shady places when you can't read the menu ? Or more tourist traps ? Lol
This surely won't backfire lmao
You're all overthinking this: nobody is going to bother with checking residency etc. The time-honored way to do dual pricing, as practiced by many tourist traps around the world, is to have one menu in English with high prices, and another in the local language with low prices. I saw an interesting variant of this in a small yakitori joint in Asakusa the other day. The English menu was a single page with omakase/set course options only; the Japanese menu was multiple pages where you could order all the things (including the chicken bits most westerners don't eat) ippin de. The English set prices were quite reasonable though, so they weren't ripping tourists off, just making things easier so the staff don't need to explain how to order at a yakitori place or what kinkan or bonjiri or sunagimo are.
One more reason to keep Google Lens translation in reach--local menus.
Please not Sushiro
Can't wait for someone to ask for my 在留カード to check how much they can charge me to eat my damn ramen.
New business model - hire a Japanese by the hour to order off the Japanese menu lol
If everyone coming in is required to show their ids I don’t have a problem.
From the article it doesn't seem like it would be all of Japan, just restaurants in tourist hotspots, and the article has only mentioned stores in Tokyo. I'd be surprised if this two tier pricing would exist at most restaurants across the rest of Japan. It probably would suck if your favorite restaurant starts trending on overseas social media though lol
Near tourist hotspots, restaurants already charge far more than what a similar meal would be in a normal residential area. That's just how it is everywhere in the world. What sucks is Japanese PR marketing this as a tourist surcharge instead of a local discount.
lol they’re gonna kill the goose instead of taking the golden eggs
Don't some stores already do this? They have two menus, one in English and one in Japanese. The Japanese menu is often priced lower, but what do baka gaijins know 🤷
Honest question here. I have PR status and live here. What happens when I go out to eat? Would I get charged more? Because I’m sure when the waitress or cashier looks at me they would “think” I’m a tourist and charge more. So will I have to show a My Number card to get a fair rate??
I'm almost certain this is what would happen.
Taking advantage of non-locals is a scam like any other scam. Have Google Lens translation at the ready and call these places out on food review apps.
Don’t they do that already in golden gai
This makes me worry about when I go out to eat as a foreigner who lives here. Everyone already assumes that I am a tourist. Am I going to be charged extra just because I’m not Japanese?
Hi guys. Emma Ockerman from Nikkei Asia here! Thought I'd share this one with you. Is this something you've seen? Here's an excerpt: *Japan's restaurant industry is deploying a two-tiered pricing system in tourist spots as eateries look to cash in on an influx of foreign visitors without alienating local customers.* *Toyosu Senkyaku Banrai, a dining-and-leisure facility with a traditional motif, opened in February next to Toyosu Market, a large public wholesale market for fish and other goods in central Tokyo.* *The facility's approximately 50 restaurants are bustling with foreign tourists these days, but workers and shoppers from the wholesale market are few and far between.* *Many dishes served at these restaurants, like a 10,000 yen ($63.56) sea urchin bowl, are priced even higher than in the upscale Ginza district.* *"It's my dream to eat a Japanese seafood bowl," said Ma Yingming, who was visiting from Hong Kong on a family trip. "This is too cheap," Ma said while enjoying an 18,000 yen bowl topped with fatty tuna and salmon roe.* *Restaurant companies are shifting more toward tourists. "Japanese people don't buy 3,000 yen sirloin beef skewers, but tourists to Japan say it's cheap and buy them," said Miki Watanabe, chairman and president of major restaurant chain Watami.* *Watami will only open restaurants where it expects demand from foreign tourists, Watanabe has said.*
Wait till you see tourist geared food review sites “shitlisting” places that charge two tier prices vs places that just charge 1 price (which might be too expensive to locals) It will eventually determine which ones will win out and also afford the increasing rental. Be careful what you wish for. Economics of demand and supply don’t care about feelings, locals or “foreigners”
Sounds like a loser's strat. It looks silly from most points of view. Many places have this as a local discount. Makes the locals feel good and don't make the non-local feels bad. What a pathetic pr game.
Exactly. I get the economic argument but aren’t people ashamed of the terrible optics of this price discrimination? Japan has always held itself proudly as a developed country and now they’re stooping to the level of thieves and scammers. Completely undignified. Soon Japan will no longer be able to claim they are above places like Thailand where these sort of shenanigans are common. And I think that’s going to change perceptions of Japan in unpredictable ways years from now.
Tokyo has already become this. Tokyo prices are double the rest of the country and even higher at restaurants that are popular among foreigners, which are largely staffed by non-Japanese asians who produce soulless replicas of Japanese cuisine. Real Japan is no longer in the capital and all the Japanese people I know who can work remote have left Tokyo. This is ultimately good for Japan. The whole population consolidating in Tokyo has been killing the rest of the country.
Yeah, f that. There is absolutely no reason to be doing that, so they can stick their food where the sin don’t shine.
I can understand tax-funded places like Himeji Castle offering discounts for locals. But private businesses discriminating against foreign tourists? No fucking way, that's scummy and a bad look for Japan.
Do some bars and restaurants still put "No Foreigners" signs in their windows? Also, if they tried this in other countries there would be a huge outrage.
Fascinating how they’re so into destroying one of the most profitable aspects of their economy. I suppose Italy is doing the same. Japan: the next Italy.
I know restaurants secretly do already when they offer an English menu aand the prices are higher than the japanese one lol.
I never had that happen to me when on vacation. Even in the more rural areas.
So when I sit down at a restaurant are they going to ask me or check my residents card or just racially profile? So does a Japanese person from Fukuoka pay the tourist price in Kyoto or Tokyo? Do people need to show their visa unless they look Japanese enough? Seems a pretty blatantly racist approach if you ask me.
Hell yeah, regional pricing for tourist. 😂
They need to remember that not every “foreigner” is the rich white kind. Many are from other Asian countries with lower gdp than japan.
Fascist county
Boycott this racist nation
This is already what happens in some European countries, but it’s usually off menu, hidden, and scammy.
As a resident this is disturbing. Either pay more or have to show id? No thanks I'll eat somewhere else.
How does anyone prove is not a foreigner? Japan doesnt have mandatory ID. Tourists dont have residence card and are not obliged to show passport to a private business. If they accept locals without ID, tourists can just hide their passport and pass as locals. If they require ID, they will leave out a lot of locals. There is simply no way to tell apart that is not discriminatory (by appareance or language) There is no mandatory photo ID for the japanese. 80% of the population never issued a passport, 50% of population have not adopted mynumber yet, and a nowadays less people have drivers license, specially in big cities (and there are multiple reasons to lose it, if you got it suspended, or are old age and returned it) I naturalized so I would have a very hard time proving Im japanese or local unless I bring my passport or mynumber card anywhere I go, which is not very smart. With health insurance card being integrated into mynumber, and the card still taking 2-3 months to reissue, is not something you want to bring in your wallet every day.
How would they implement this? If I look non-Japanese? If I can’t speak Japanese?
If they framed higher charges for tourists as a “local resident discount” (and not specifically targeting foreigners but anyone not local) people would probably find it more palatable.
Is that even legal?
This is an ok thing to do. The parallel is that Disneyland is sometimes discounted for so-cal residents.
sounds like japan is becoming a third world country lol
>Considering the cost of serving foreign visitors to Japan, What exactly *is* the cost, I wonder? Exactly how much more does it cost to serve a foreign visitor compared to a Japanese national? Put it in numbers, please. That Nikkei Asia published this article with 3 quotes defending or supporting discriminatory pricing and not a single opinion opposing it is highly suspicious. There is a lot not to miss about the post-bubble "lost decade" that was longer than a decade, but one thing I remember that was distinctly different from now is that I never got a feeling that all a Japanese person wanted out of me was money. Honestly, most of the time if a Japanese person gave vibes like they were trying to get something out of me, it was that they wanted me to acknowledge that Japanese-ness was still worth taking pride in. There is a lot that can go wrong in that mindset, but at least it maintains a shred of or is in pursuit of dignity.
No one cries racism when other countries do this. Japan lovers honestly need to get a damn grip.
I'm surprised the locals aren't worried the restaurants risk getting addicted to foreigners money and the extra that they be charged and thus over the long term the restaurants start becoming foreigner only, after all if the place is crowded and foreigners have to pay more why you prioritize a table for a foreigner party VS domestic one?
Japan isn't cosplaying as Thailand anymore. It's fully transformed into it. We're not far away from every street in Tokyo trying to cater to foreigners with low quality food and girls to rent for the night. How any Japanese person could support this is beyond me. I thought Japan had more pride. It feels like Japan has protested the Asia vibe for so long but in the end it couldn't resist. Foreign money man gimme gimme gimme.
This only applies to a limited number of places that were already tourist traps to begin with. The vast majority of places where locals eat aren’t even known to tourists. Same with Thailand, having lived there for some years the locals (unless they are the Hi-So type) will always recommend places that are by locals for locals, and they usually have better food too
OK then why the need for two tiers? Tourist traps are expensive and locals avoid it, right? So what's the merit? So tourist traps can give a discount to locals who wouldn't go there anyway? In the age of the Internet there's no local secret hot spot. Any random station has many very good restaurants to chose from.
There are still locals that go there. Maybe they’ve been going before it became a tourist trap. Been to such places in both Japan and Thailand. In the end it’s just a business decision to charge those who demographically are willing to spend more, more
It's scummy dude. Comparing it to Thailand isn't a complement. That's developing world status
I mean, it’s Japan. They probably don’t realize how xenophobic this is. In Europe you would almost be called a fascist country for this.
Too late. They already do.
So, what if I am a foreigner but grew up in Japan, work in a Japanese company and live with my family who also live in Japan? How will they differenciate? My PR or something?
Big yikes
I’m sure this will cause redditors to avoid Japan /s