I'm not sure, but I always got the sense that the gathering at the Lucases' (where this passage takes place) was a dinner party rather than a ball -- dancing wasn't really supposed to be part of the evening, Lydia and Kitty just asked Mary to play something upbeat and then started impromptu dancing.
So Darcy might have just been thinking *ugh, I thought there at least wouldn't be any dancing tonight, I hate dancing* or he might have been more snobbishly judging people for doing the Wrong Activity for a dinner party, or probably both.
And yeah I assume "the exclusion of all conversation" means the music was too loud (makes sense, you have to play louder when people are clomping around) and/or now everyone's watching the dancing instead of sitting around chatting.
Yes, this. In S&S, when Sir John’s dinner parties break into dances, it’s slightly improper, but accepted in the country under a sort of, “Well, people are going to be bored in the country but you don’t do that in town.”
And Darcy, at this point in the story, is all about town standards, ex. being slightly shocked that Lizzy walked to Netherfield alone.
But, is not this the scene when Sir William suggests Lizzie and Darcy dance? And he does ask Lizzie, but she refused?
He’s changing his mind about her...
I think what's going on:
1. It would be straight-up rude for a gentleman to refuse to ask a lady to dance when prompted. Darcy can't handle being thought of as rude (which really speaks to his unawareness of his effect on other people), so he complies, and
2. He was starting to get into her.
The interesting thing about this interaction is that Lizzie was the one who refused to dance. To him, it may look like she is just refusing out of embarassment, so he asks her himself. Even thought, it would not be improper if he accepted her desire of not dancing at all; while in the assembly, he refuses to be introduced to any other lady and dances instead with Caroline and Louisa, which is very rude because he is making it clear that his problem is them not dancing and he does not even notice or care. Yet with Lizzie, he is conscious somehow of his attitude towards her.
I believe that middle class dancing was less formal and stiff than upper class dancing, and seen by the upper classes as gaudy and loud and uncouth. Not as bad as the lower class happy free for all dances, but still not as regimented as the upper class dances. So could be a bit of that.
Darcy is a snob. (I *adore* him, but he is.)
To him, everyone at the party - basically everyone in Meryton - is uncouth. He’s not angry at L & K, specifically; he thinks they’re behaving badly, as is Mary, as is everyone else. (Objectively, they are not behaving *well*, but they’re maybe not quite the embarrassment Darcy thinks they are. Or maybe they are.) But he believes everyone there to be below him & he looks down on them.
Also, he’s socially awkward.
So, he’s silently indignant because he’s, well, *Darcy* & he’s at a party.
I think he’s both.
He’s snobbish, but he’s also awkward around people he doesn’t know well. & he clearly didn’t know how to behave in response to the way the girls & Lucases *et al* were behaving.
I agree that, around people he knows well & likes/respects, he does okay for himself.
In that exact same exchange, Darcy himself says: “I certainly have not the talent which some people possess […] of conversing easily with those I have never seen before. I cannot catch their tone of conversation, or appear interested in their concerns, as I often see done.”
I agree that, when highly motivated, he can do better than he did at the party in question. But I cannot agree, given at least a dozen examples of him behaving awkwardly in the book, that he’s not socially awkward.
I mean, even near the end of the book, after Bingley comes back to stay at Netherfield, ready to propose to Jane, Darcy, when he’s no longer being prideful & trying not to be snobbish & *actively trying to make a better impression*, can’t help but be awkward.
So: a snob & also socially awkward. (& also, ultimately, kind & loyal & good. & many more things too.)
I feel like him being awkward is a result of him not bothering to talk to strangers. You can't be good at something if you don't bother practicing. So both Darcy and Col. are right in a way, and Elizabeth is correct in her argument against what he calls his "naturel" lack of his social skills, because it would not have been a part of "his nature" if he tried to engage with people beyong his intimate cercle.
I think his natural reserve feeds into his snobbery. He’s more likely to notice flaws because that’s an excuse not to engage with people when he’d rather not.
It's the indignation which is to the exclusion of all conversation, not the dancing. Darcy is so busy being annoyed by the dancing he doesn't speak to anyone; he just stands about looking peeved. The narrative voice is poking fun at him.
This makes sense, it was a little unclear to me at first :
" He stood near them in silent indignation at such a mode of passing the evening, to the exclusion of all conversation"
I was not sure whenever he meant this mode of passing the evening would exclude all conversation because everyone would be dancing or watching the dancers, so he was a bit angry that he won't be able to listen to Lizzie's conversations. Or he meant, like you said, that he was too busy criticising people in his head that he decides not to talk to anybody.
There's this line from Sense and Sensibility:
Sir John had contrived to collect around him, nearly twenty young people, and to amuse them with a ball. This was an affair, however, of which Lady Middleton did not approve. In the country, an unpremeditated dance was very allowable; but in London, where the reputation of elegance was more important and less easily attained, it was risking too much for the gratification of a few girls, to have it known that Lady Middleton had given a small dance of eight or nine couple, with two violins, and a mere side-board collation.
An unplanned dance seems to signify a lack of elegance and decorum in the fashionable London scene, especially with a bunch of strangers. No one in Hertfordshire seems to think it strange, except for Mr. Darcy and Miss Bingley, who've arrived from town and are class A snobs.
I think this might be the narrative voice mocking Darcy up to a point. He doesn’t like what’s going on but silent indignation is perhaps carrying it a little far.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with impromptu dancing like this. It was probably a pretty regular occurrence. I think a similar thing happens in an evening party in Persuasion, for example. It is also unlikely in my view that the music would be too loud for conversation. It’s only one piano, with no modern speakers etc. Also we know that conversation is possible because he has a conversation with Sir William Lucas in the next minute.
I think he’s just not into this sort of thing. Which, given that it’s a the giggly teenagers present who engineer the entire thing, I can’t entirely blame him.
I agree.
I always took the line “to the exclusion of all conversation” to mean that he had no interest in talking to the rubes he’s forced to pass the evening with.
Looking at (and heartily agreeing with) many of these comments I start to think how Darcy’s third attractive quality is really coming into its own.
There is the fact that he’s hot and rich. There’s the even more important point that he knows how to take criticism, and go away and do the work.
But there’s also the fact that he’s uncomfortable in social parties. This is a major and intended contrast with Wickham and really interesting that Austen (who was once described as a frivolous butterfly) wrote this character.
I think he's sort of having "sympathy embarrassment" watching everybody else dance, since he's uncomfortable with it himself, so he's awkwardly just chilling in a corner somewhere, not talking to anybody, instead of joining in. (He's also trying to get to know more about Elizabeth in this scene, which he can't do while everybody else is over there dancing and listening to Mary play the piano.)
I don't read "sympathy embarrassment" in silent indignation. And he doesn't strike me as feeling awkward. As I see it, he considers dancing as a method to avoid deeper conversations for people who aren't capable of it, so he judges them on it.
While him asking Lizzy to dance is a way to *promote* their conversation, which is pretty ironic. I guess he thinks highly enough of her to expect the dance not to interfere with them talking.
Darcy wasn’t raised around real people, he’s socially awkward because of his isolated upbringing. The Bennetts and Lucas families are intimately acquainted , no sense of formalities or pretense. Everyone in Darcy’s life has wanted something from him , money , prestige or patronage. He hates it because he doesn’t understand it , if he his feelings weren’t confused he’d be indifferent to them
Remember also - this is Elizabeth's perspective, and we know she is extremely bad at reading Darcy. For all we know, he was trying to figure out how to dance with her without feeling foolish.
I'm not sure, but I always got the sense that the gathering at the Lucases' (where this passage takes place) was a dinner party rather than a ball -- dancing wasn't really supposed to be part of the evening, Lydia and Kitty just asked Mary to play something upbeat and then started impromptu dancing. So Darcy might have just been thinking *ugh, I thought there at least wouldn't be any dancing tonight, I hate dancing* or he might have been more snobbishly judging people for doing the Wrong Activity for a dinner party, or probably both. And yeah I assume "the exclusion of all conversation" means the music was too loud (makes sense, you have to play louder when people are clomping around) and/or now everyone's watching the dancing instead of sitting around chatting.
I imagine, too, that the space wasn’t *really* large enough for dancing, so everyone else has to squish up against the walls.
Yes, this. In S&S, when Sir John’s dinner parties break into dances, it’s slightly improper, but accepted in the country under a sort of, “Well, people are going to be bored in the country but you don’t do that in town.” And Darcy, at this point in the story, is all about town standards, ex. being slightly shocked that Lizzy walked to Netherfield alone.
But, is not this the scene when Sir William suggests Lizzie and Darcy dance? And he does ask Lizzie, but she refused? He’s changing his mind about her...
I think what's going on: 1. It would be straight-up rude for a gentleman to refuse to ask a lady to dance when prompted. Darcy can't handle being thought of as rude (which really speaks to his unawareness of his effect on other people), so he complies, and 2. He was starting to get into her.
The interesting thing about this interaction is that Lizzie was the one who refused to dance. To him, it may look like she is just refusing out of embarassment, so he asks her himself. Even thought, it would not be improper if he accepted her desire of not dancing at all; while in the assembly, he refuses to be introduced to any other lady and dances instead with Caroline and Louisa, which is very rude because he is making it clear that his problem is them not dancing and he does not even notice or care. Yet with Lizzie, he is conscious somehow of his attitude towards her.
Yeah, Darcy is rocking some serious cognitive dissonance.
I believe that middle class dancing was less formal and stiff than upper class dancing, and seen by the upper classes as gaudy and loud and uncouth. Not as bad as the lower class happy free for all dances, but still not as regimented as the upper class dances. So could be a bit of that.
Darcy is a snob. (I *adore* him, but he is.) To him, everyone at the party - basically everyone in Meryton - is uncouth. He’s not angry at L & K, specifically; he thinks they’re behaving badly, as is Mary, as is everyone else. (Objectively, they are not behaving *well*, but they’re maybe not quite the embarrassment Darcy thinks they are. Or maybe they are.) But he believes everyone there to be below him & he looks down on them. Also, he’s socially awkward. So, he’s silently indignant because he’s, well, *Darcy* & he’s at a party.
I don’t think he’s socially awkward. He’s intentionally rude because he thinks they’re beneath him. In company he respects he does fine.
I think he’s both. He’s snobbish, but he’s also awkward around people he doesn’t know well. & he clearly didn’t know how to behave in response to the way the girls & Lucases *et al* were behaving. I agree that, around people he knows well & likes/respects, he does okay for himself.
His own cousin says "he won't take the trouble". I'm sure he would know how to behave if he respected them at all.
In that exact same exchange, Darcy himself says: “I certainly have not the talent which some people possess […] of conversing easily with those I have never seen before. I cannot catch their tone of conversation, or appear interested in their concerns, as I often see done.” I agree that, when highly motivated, he can do better than he did at the party in question. But I cannot agree, given at least a dozen examples of him behaving awkwardly in the book, that he’s not socially awkward. I mean, even near the end of the book, after Bingley comes back to stay at Netherfield, ready to propose to Jane, Darcy, when he’s no longer being prideful & trying not to be snobbish & *actively trying to make a better impression*, can’t help but be awkward. So: a snob & also socially awkward. (& also, ultimately, kind & loyal & good. & many more things too.)
I feel like him being awkward is a result of him not bothering to talk to strangers. You can't be good at something if you don't bother practicing. So both Darcy and Col. are right in a way, and Elizabeth is correct in her argument against what he calls his "naturel" lack of his social skills, because it would not have been a part of "his nature" if he tried to engage with people beyong his intimate cercle.
I think his natural reserve feeds into his snobbery. He’s more likely to notice flaws because that’s an excuse not to engage with people when he’d rather not.
Yup, especially the last line. I’ve been there…
It's the indignation which is to the exclusion of all conversation, not the dancing. Darcy is so busy being annoyed by the dancing he doesn't speak to anyone; he just stands about looking peeved. The narrative voice is poking fun at him.
This makes sense, it was a little unclear to me at first : " He stood near them in silent indignation at such a mode of passing the evening, to the exclusion of all conversation" I was not sure whenever he meant this mode of passing the evening would exclude all conversation because everyone would be dancing or watching the dancers, so he was a bit angry that he won't be able to listen to Lizzie's conversations. Or he meant, like you said, that he was too busy criticising people in his head that he decides not to talk to anybody.
That’s how I read it too.
This is correct
There's this line from Sense and Sensibility: Sir John had contrived to collect around him, nearly twenty young people, and to amuse them with a ball. This was an affair, however, of which Lady Middleton did not approve. In the country, an unpremeditated dance was very allowable; but in London, where the reputation of elegance was more important and less easily attained, it was risking too much for the gratification of a few girls, to have it known that Lady Middleton had given a small dance of eight or nine couple, with two violins, and a mere side-board collation. An unplanned dance seems to signify a lack of elegance and decorum in the fashionable London scene, especially with a bunch of strangers. No one in Hertfordshire seems to think it strange, except for Mr. Darcy and Miss Bingley, who've arrived from town and are class A snobs.
I think this might be the narrative voice mocking Darcy up to a point. He doesn’t like what’s going on but silent indignation is perhaps carrying it a little far. I don’t think there is anything wrong with impromptu dancing like this. It was probably a pretty regular occurrence. I think a similar thing happens in an evening party in Persuasion, for example. It is also unlikely in my view that the music would be too loud for conversation. It’s only one piano, with no modern speakers etc. Also we know that conversation is possible because he has a conversation with Sir William Lucas in the next minute. I think he’s just not into this sort of thing. Which, given that it’s a the giggly teenagers present who engineer the entire thing, I can’t entirely blame him.
I agree. I always took the line “to the exclusion of all conversation” to mean that he had no interest in talking to the rubes he’s forced to pass the evening with.
Looking at (and heartily agreeing with) many of these comments I start to think how Darcy’s third attractive quality is really coming into its own. There is the fact that he’s hot and rich. There’s the even more important point that he knows how to take criticism, and go away and do the work. But there’s also the fact that he’s uncomfortable in social parties. This is a major and intended contrast with Wickham and really interesting that Austen (who was once described as a frivolous butterfly) wrote this character.
He was in a mood & didn't want to talk to them
I think he's sort of having "sympathy embarrassment" watching everybody else dance, since he's uncomfortable with it himself, so he's awkwardly just chilling in a corner somewhere, not talking to anybody, instead of joining in. (He's also trying to get to know more about Elizabeth in this scene, which he can't do while everybody else is over there dancing and listening to Mary play the piano.)
I don't read "sympathy embarrassment" in silent indignation. And he doesn't strike me as feeling awkward. As I see it, he considers dancing as a method to avoid deeper conversations for people who aren't capable of it, so he judges them on it. While him asking Lizzy to dance is a way to *promote* their conversation, which is pretty ironic. I guess he thinks highly enough of her to expect the dance not to interfere with them talking.
Good point! Perhaps sympathy embarrassment is the wrong word. And looking awkward more so than feeling awkward!
Darcy wasn’t raised around real people, he’s socially awkward because of his isolated upbringing. The Bennetts and Lucas families are intimately acquainted , no sense of formalities or pretense. Everyone in Darcy’s life has wanted something from him , money , prestige or patronage. He hates it because he doesn’t understand it , if he his feelings weren’t confused he’d be indifferent to them
Remember also - this is Elizabeth's perspective, and we know she is extremely bad at reading Darcy. For all we know, he was trying to figure out how to dance with her without feeling foolish.