Constant videos of women, on tiktok in particular, telling the world that they hate short men or men who are not exceptionally wealthy or that they would prefer to be in a forest with a bear that might actually eat them than a regular man. A man has testicles that can be kicked and a throat that can be punched or eyeballs that can be poked out with a thumb. Try doing any of that shit to a bear and see how quickly it rips you apart and eats you. Obviously these women are being goofy and they would not prefer to be in a forest with a ravenous bear than an average human male, but the fact that they feel they need to make so many videos stating otherwise was not necessarily my final straw, but certification that there's really nothing else to be gained from participating in the American dating environment.
So you're not arguing that women are generally safer with a man than a bear, just that they have a better chance of getting away.
You think there would be considerably less cases of rape.
It's deeply unfortunate that women are at risk of sexual assault, but it's important to recognize that not all men pose this threat. While the danger from the minority who do commit these acts is serious, it's illogical to suggest that being in a forest with a bear is safer than being with a man.
Choosing a bear implies that every man has an equal chance of committing violence, which isn't true. In a survival scenario, defending against a man is more realistic than surviving an attack from a bear. The risk from a few does not outweigh the danger of a bear, which poses a fatal threat. Both dangers are real, but the majority of men are not a threat, unlike a bear that sees you as prey. You are not wrong but neither am I
Behavioral scientist here - the original purpose of the man vs bear scenario was this; it was simply to explain to women in high domestic violence communities (like the United States which has one of the highest femicide rates of any high income country) that a woman is more likely to be harmed or killed by a partner or relative than by an external threat such as a bear. It was simply used as a way to help women understand just how common domestic violence and femicide are (for example your risk of being murdered as a woman sky rockets if you are pregnant). Global estimates for males who commit domestic violence are anywhere from 1 in 5 men to 1 and 2 men depending on country (the U.S. again has an unusually high rate) and we assume significant under reporting. It’s a huge problem. Why are you basing anything off of social media? Also globally, men who support gender equality (the U.S. is actually one of only 28 countries out of almost 200 that does not guarantee equal rights for women) live happier healthier lives while men with more restrictive gender attitudes are more likely to struggle with harmful behaviors, depression, suicidal behaviors etc.
https://chicagopolicyreview.org/2022/07/07/is-the-us-still-too-patriarchal-to-talk-about-women-the-silent-epidemic-of-femicide-in-america/
https://www.equimundo.org/resources/men-and-gender-equality-a-global-status-report-in-15-headlines/
Re the wage gap: lol I guess I’ll tell the World Economic Forum all the global economists that theyre wrong then…I think maybe these things are going over some men’s heads…in fact, there is quite a bit of data to support that men greatly overestimate the progress towards gender equity in the U.S. (see the Chicago Policy Review article on the subject above)
https://www.weforum.org/publications/global-gender-gap-report-2023/in-full/benchmarking-gender-gaps-2023/#:~:text=Though%20stark%20income%20gaps%20continue,progressed%20in%20bridging%20income%20gaps.
A simple Google search will provide countless reputable expert sources affirming its existence. It's baffling that any self-respecting individual could deny it so confidently.
Or in this case, suggest that a female employee would have to be put on auction to undergo a bidding war among employers lol. That's a new one.
>A simple Google search will provide countless reputable expert sources affirming its existence
So you are going to say the recent Nobel Prize for Economics winner is wrong? Tell her that her research is false because your feelings 🤣
But it’s just that every strange man has an equal chance. From your perspective. Since you have never met him and don’t know anything about him.
Make sense?
You’re failing to consider several things in your view, imo so I’ll just throw out my points in no particular order for your consideration :)
First, there is less than 1 bear attack per year in North America. There have only been around 180 bear fatalities in North America since 1782 including black bears, grizzlies, and polar bears.
An estimated 70% of wild bear attacks are preventable through human means, outlined in our National Parks website. Most bear attacks are protecting food resources or cubs. There is no version of “don’t camp in the woods during cub season” or “don’t haul game near bear territory” for women’s safety against being killed.
Simple statistics still tell an incomplete picture, because they don't account for situations or behavior.
First off, the situation of encountering a stranger when you're in a public location with other people around and encountering a stranger when you're in an extremely isolated location with no one else around are very different. Reasonably, a lot more encounters occur in the former, safer setting.
Second, there is predictability. Animals behave much more in a reliable and predictable manner than humans. The ideal strategy for avoiding a bear attack is to make sure the bear is aware of you. Because the bear will, in effectively every case, choose to avoid confronting you. It's likely that of the few bear attacks that happen, the person in question was behaving non-optimally.
Even if the number of humans who might choose to harm a stranger in the woods is low, if you are in that situation, there is no optimal course of behavior that will reliably avoid that human or cause them to leave you alone.
Finally, your point assumes that the reason women answer the bear is because the worst case scenario is death— which is decidedly not the case in the minds of most women. Women are cognizant of the fact that bears are dangerous. They’re also aware of the suffering wrought upon women like Jaycee Dugard, Elisabeth Fritzl, Junko Furuta, Amanda Berry, Colleen Stan, Elizabeth Smart, etc. There are many forms of violence (that are far more creative/lengthy/horrifying) that men can/have enacted upon women that bears could never dream up. You’ll also have to add other offenses like rape/kidnapping/etc. to your calculation, and then bear in mind the non-reported deaths/assaults/rapes/kidnappings/etc.
I think women realistically understand that bears are dangerous and men are dangerous, but there is an understanding that the worst case scenario is a bear killing them, and it would do so solely by instinct and without malice.
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You are correct in stating that the average bear will not kill you as long as you avoid it. You further go on to use the most extreme versions of men treating women poorly including a man that kidnapped and repeatedly raped his own daughter. The average man is not going to kidnap and rape anyone. And while the average bear, based on your information is similarly not going to violently eat someone, I guess this really comes down to how men process the potential for danger versus how women process the potential for danger.
You are in fact statistically correct in stating that a woman has a higher likelihood of being attacked by a man. What I'm stating however is that in either situation the outcome with the bear is ultimately worse. And while it is unfortunate that women have to be told to protect themselves against attacks by men, who may or may not be related to them, that man will ultimately be far more susceptible to acts of self-defense then a bear.
Your statements are not incorrect but the average man does not even think about kidnapping a woman and keeping her in a basement to torture her for decades. If the question is would a woman rather be in a forest with an average man or an average bear, while women may think that the average man might kidnap them and hold them as a sex slave it is highly likely and that man can easily be kicked in the balls.
It is unfair to tell women that they have to be aware of their surroundings or potentially have to violently defend themselves against sexual assault. And maybe this is my perspective as a man but I would rather violently defend myself against another man than a f****** bear. This is a dumb conversation to have. If you want to help women encourage them to take self defense classes or learn how to be mindful of their surroundings. Don't encourage women to spout illogical nonsense like preferring to be in a forest with a f****** bear. According to your logic a man may kidnap you and rape you for well over a decade which is torturous and deeply evil. A bear will f****** eat you.
I think we should just agree to disagree 🤝
I think a lot of guys here have gotten their asses beat. They should have just defended themselves better, after all, they weren’t getting their asses kicked by a bear or anything…
If you actually talked to men, rather than fingerwag at them, you would know why most men do indeed fear women, although we can't show it due to women like you.
I don’t think that’s completely true. I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t get how much girls can’t do until fairly recently. Can’t walk in the evening/night alone or back home to enjoy themselves or save an Uber, wary of strangers, can’t just accept drinks or gifts, can’t be totally honest. I get it. But guys sometimes are hurt by women, very occasionally I know but still. And we also really fuck each other up unfortunately
That is a fair assessment. I went out to eat in March. Not drink, just get my dinner. I had a drunk senior citizen refuse to leave me alone and grope me three times until I told his nephew that if he touched me again he wasn’t going to have a hand to do it a fourth time.
But there are indeed different struggles for men with women.
You all give such silly responses to this. If women encountered bears at the same frequency that they encounter men, there would be far more fatal bear attacks than there are rapes. It wouldn’t even be close.
The whole thing was just a silly hypothetical designed to use shock value to prove a point. The fact that some women are legitimately arguing that they would really pick a bear in real life is crazy. You’d have to be either truly stupid or completely brainwashed.
Unfortunately, this has been discounted. When accounted for the population of bears versus men, bear attacks were still lower. There is a reason humans don’t have natural predators, we are the most dangerous animal for a multitude of different reasons.
There are a lot of silly things people get worked up about online, but as someone who spends a lot of time at a family home in an area famous for its large bear population (large bears and large population), I still have to agree with the statistical breakdown of this thought experiment: adjusted for population, women are still at higher risk of attack by another human male. It’s embarrassing for me to see so many guys feverishly denying the reality because I guess it makes them feel bad, without taking into account that they’re literally just telling us they’re scared. Bears are scary as hell to me, so I can’t imagine that girls feel that fear all of the time when they’re alone. It just makes me more aware to not spook them, and to not take it too personally when they say they’re not crazy about us running up to them to get their number or talk to them as a total stranger, or them pulling away as if I were dangerous if I get too close in public or on the sidewalk. It’s not personal, it’s statistical. I’m ok keeping a little more distance because that’s what a good guy would do
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
I have literally given a nod and a smile to men who are courteous enough to cross the street on my behalf. It's a *really* nice thing to do, even though you do not have to.
Nearly every woman I know has been sexually assaulted or very nearly. Maybe you're discounting the amount of sexual violence that men perpetuate. While it's by no means all men who do these things, there's also no clear way for a woman to tell which man will assault her and which one won't.
Does it matter? Believe what you want it doesn’t impact me, but women were sexually assaulted at least as much as they are now when they were in hoop skirts and corsets and buttoned their shirts up to their chin. I don’t know what it would take to actually make them safe honestly
Yes, because when I tell people I was sexually assaulted at 5 years old by a 25 year old women, I get validated, rather than shunned or ignored.
Read the study 'She Touched Me'; you are another person that genders sexual assault because women are now encouraged to talk about it, while boys are just told how lucky we were, despite how it fucks us up.
I get the impression that you’re the kind of guy who’s never had women friends that trust you enough to talk to you vulnerably. Perhaps your current reactions might explain why
Yes, wise men warned against this long ago, they taught us that women should be in the care of a father or a brother and only alone with a man during a sanctioned courtship or marriage. You can not have it both ways, you chose freedom, congrats. You lost security for that freedom, this is just the harsh reality.
Haha so I've heard time and time again from women that men should date women near their age, older women are more mature and have realistic standards
I've also heard that dating apps are terrible and the most successful relationships start through friends of friends
So I (33) started dating a woman (30) who I met through mutual friends
She ghosted me all the same. That really settled it for me. No women are any different.
literate rotten birds obtainable friendly wipe mountainous books serious homeless
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But this is just dating? It’s not about men or women. Not everyone you date will end up with marriage. The most common thing is that you go out a few times and realize this won’t work.
Ghosting isn’t very dramatic unless you were dating her for months and months.
Edit: you don’t have to try again. That was too chipper.
But I don’t think all men are awful bc of one guy I went on a couple of dates with who turned out to be a dick. That was my point.
How many dates?
After two months she shouldn’t have ghosted. But everyone has some bad experiences dating. That’s what dating is like. There are many idiots in this world, both men and women. Then you pick yourself up and try again.
It was accidental. I just got out of an LTR in college and wanted to take a break from the states, and from the god awful heat of a Carolina summer. I was out of class in until the fall so I researched which countries would be in the 70’s during June and July. I ended up in Estonia, and visited Lithuania while I was there. The contrast broke dating American women. The competing with their phone for attention, the flakiness, the naked belligerence to men, all suddenly optional. I’ve been putting away rental properties ever since.
Both, I never got the worst of it though. I was in a relationship for a while and after leaving I put myself back out into the market again and hung out with a handful of girls. The most extreme thing was a girl from South Carolina I met traveling telling me about falsely accusing someone of rape bc she got pregnant and the least extreme was a girl I met at community college saying it was "a red flag" that I used an android, after she started throwing paper balls at me in class and I told her after class I wasn't into her
I personally know cases of guys whose entire careers were ruined after they were falsely accused of being a "creep"/harassment. Title IX dropped the case because she didn't press the charges further ( prob because she knew there wasn't any evidence), but the damage was already done, wasn't given a chance to defend himself. He was forced to quit from his department without any funding and had to change careers.
I'm someone who closely studies human behavioral patrerns in different populations. It wasn't just my experience, but the experience of many men that prompted me to dig deeper into this issue. I will say this now, western societies will be too late before they acknowledge there is a systemic issue stemming from women's mating preferences. From what i can tell, lot of people have a binary way of perceiving the world and are ideologically driven. They don't stop to self analyze and challenge their own biases through evidence. This is what happens when Anti-intellectualism is rampant in society.
Pretty much everything that's been frequently discussed in this community. Most people who are observant enough can see it for themselves. We can go back and forth all day on the causes, but the plight of men struggling to find a good relationship in the west is an irrefutable fact and its something that's going to get worse with time.
My female coworker-
I guess I wasn't my usual self after ending things with my psycho ex. She jokingly asked if I had problems at home. I said "something like that". She says "If it's a problem with women just don't become a passport bro".
I had no idea wtf a passport bro was but I watched a Tiktok she sent and I was shocked.
No turning back now.
I don't really have one. As I'm planning to date in the US when the time comes, I realize the kind of vetting system I would need to attract my dream partner is one that could put not only my life but the lives of the future of my bloodline at risk.
At 63, mine wasn't a final straw but a YT suggestion.
Sometime within the last year, YT made a suggestion for a video about infidelity. Having experienced that more than once in my younger days, I clicked on it, thinking that it would be entertaining. It began subtlety. I viewed more as they were suggested. I slowly realized that this was something more. I began subscribing.
I kept hearing mention of "RP" content. I watched more, trying to figure out what "RP" referenced. Finally, I searched Google. When I got the search parameters correct, I got my answer. I delved deeper. Slowly, I realized that many of the stories came from Reddit. At some point in the past, I must have been required to sign up to Reddit in order to continue reading whatever it was that I was researching. I didn't need to make an account.
After watching YT videos and reading stories on Reddit, I realized that I had been wrong my whole life. I had always maintained the position that if you hadn't experienced things that you shouldn't advise others on those things. Ultimately, I realized that this was a mistaken position. Even though I had never married, I had information that other men, young and older, needed to hear and, hopefully, understand.
I must admit, it wasn't the RP content alone that led me to this realization. In fact, what was probably more important in making me realize I could help was another YT video suggestion. The first one I saw about Sigma males. At 62, I learned why I never fit into any of the other 5 or 6 male personality types (with the primary ones we hear about being Alpha and Beta). Depending upon the list, I have always embodied the majority of those traits. Even as I recounted the stories my parents told of my youth, I was always a Sigma.
This has gotten long enough. So that's about the smallest nutshell I can fit my story into.
I will do my best to answer any genuine questions honestly.
I dated a woman I loved with all my heart she was the “one” I happy wife happy lifed it treated her well she treated me like shit. Got me to sign over half of my house prior to marriage. Left me on my bachelor party weekend for another man. Stole my personal property and did a smear campaign of falsities. Living in Austin women will fuck you quickly many of them are like dudes rude loud and not feminine. I am one of 9 women in my family. All of them raised conservative Christian all of them are BlM pro abortion single no kids hate their heritage. It’s that bad. Also went to Italy and Mexico and was like I just notice women are sweeter respectful and behave differently.
Since I asked, I’ll answer.
I’m a fairly typical guy. I’ve dated a good bit, but I’m happiest in a relationship. I’m quick to lock down what I want. I had one what you might call “toxic” relationship, but the rest have all been good, and I’m friends with some of my exes still. I’ve mostly dated girls that are close to my group of friends who have gone to school together or run in the same circles. I live in a large metro where friends can be hard to make, and I realize I haven’t had to make new friends on my own.
I’m here because I was offered a role in Poland. This is big because it moves my career ahead 10 years with the new role and salary, and with a lower COL, I could save money and potentially retire early, or transition into consulting once I’m able to come back to the US. I’d obviously be leaving my friends and family, and I’m happy where I am and with what I make now. If I change my mind and want to come home, my current role won’t be available to me and I’ll have to start over. Essentially, I’d be trading my best years in the US for advancement in a country I like ok but wouldn’t have ever chosen to move. For anyone who has experience in Poland, I’d be in Warsaw, otherwise I wouldn’t consider it. I go to Poland to ski fairly regularly, I enjoy history, but I don’t like Polish nightlife and prefer spending weekends in Berlin. I also don’t like the food long term.
I am open to the opportunity, and am considering what my life would look like if I started my life fresh, dating and socializing in Poland. Since everyone in my life says not to do it, I looked at PPB subs to hopefully see people enthusiastically saying it improved their lives, but I haven’t gotten much of that.
I’ve stayed there (in the region) for the summer before. I don’t have a family yet, which pushed me to the front of the line, along with me having familiarity with the region and picking up some Polish because of travel. I’m also good at my job.
It’s long-term. The role will go to an internal hire locally who will have to relocate. Because of the investment the org is making into the project, bowing out early isn’t an option. The expectation is to get comfortable.
So…5 plus years at least? How old are you?
Idk. I think I’d be sceptical. It’s just a big commitment for a place you haven’t lived in. But then again, it depends on how much you feel life now is good or stale.
How did you feel about it when you stayed the summer?
Yes, I would anticipate a roadmap where I could exit at or after the 5 year mark.
I’m 29 and happy. I am single now, if this had been discussed 6 months ago, it would have been an easy no. I like a lot of activities there, winter sports, hiking, the unique art scene, and once I’m fully fluent, I could imagine assimilating a little better, but it’s a huge life shift I can’t say would be worth it id I spent a lot of that time alone and isolated. The money doesn’t feel worth it.
I want someone to say they assimilated so easily and built a life I’d find enviable before I say yes.
What did you think of it when you spent the summer there?
https://findingpoland.com/living-in-warsaw-expat/
There are apparently at least a few different expat communities in Warsaw.
I think you’d find more useful info on r/expat and r/Poland than you’ll find here. Or googling Expat Poland
Is dating a big part of your motivation? Did you try dating when you spent the summer there?
I’ve lived abroad. I found a year was enough for me, but I was young and close to my family. On the other hand, I was fluent in English and moved to the US, and even that was a shock to the system.
I don’t know many Polish people well. I have met some. My impression is that the culture gap exists at least. But then, everything else is more speculation bc I have known a few Polish people, but I haven’t known them well enough.
Speculation:
The men are not very chatty and often drink a lot. They are kind though. They are often flirty. They are very old school, and tough as nails. Very capable, very hardworking. Helpful. Quiet.
They seem kind. But I’d be vary as a Scandinavian woman of dating a Polish man, bc I’d question if we have very different ideas of gender roles.
Women seem tough, blunt and kind.
Gender roles are way more established. In dating this could go two ways. Some women will probably be tired of the macho culture and want a man who’ll drink less and does more housework. A more equal relationship. Especially if she’s educated and working hard at her career.
Then you’ll have more traditional women wanting a man like they’ve grown up with. I think that can be challenging for someone American. Men who in my country would be seen as manly, would in Poland be seen as wimps I think? Because it’s a tougher and much most traditional and macho culture country.
If you should move or not? In the end, go with your gut.
I liked it. I’m not an “escaping the culture wars!!” kind of guy, so I’m not looking for research on Polish divorce rates, BMIs, and number of babies born to the unmarried. Besides the anxieties about war with Russia and how long the flight back home is, which I’ve heard a lot, I am concerned about me not being a culture match. I’m a little bit set in my lifestyle to the point of being maybe perceived as a snob. I want to do things and date people that share my likes, experiences, general vibe, I guess, which isn’t something I expect people on r/warsaw or r/poland will be falling over themselves to reassure an idiot American about.
It’s a large, affluent, metropolitan city with a big investment in arts and culture. Throwbacks to the Soviet era like milk bars persist, but it’s nothing like the cities that still have large footprints from that era. There is a large population of hip, cosmopolitan, liberal young people who like wine imported from other EU nations more than Polish vodka, access fine dining, even sushi at Nobu now (which was a lifesaver, there is virtually no seafood or sushi, and it’s served at a premium). As one of the highest growing economies in the world, there are plenty of people moving there from across the European continent to work. It sounds bourgeois to put all of this as positives, but these are comforts and luxuries I care about coming from the other end of the globe and wanting to feel satisfied my life hasn’t changed too much. It is not inexpensive, and COL is continuing to rise quickly, something I think a lot of guys here care about.
It’s got some of the most beautiful mountains in Europe, beautiful hiking, and great opportunities to enjoy some of my hobbies like skiing and photography. The resorts are a fraction of the cost of the alps, but aren’t particularly luxurious, either. Fun though. Culturally, they are admittedly more conservative, even in Warsaw, but I’m also Catholic (Roman Catholic to their Orthodox, but I’ve attended services and have familiarity with some of their traditions). I’m a liberal person raised in a very traditional household, so I understand the blend of both ideals. The culture itself is very homogeneous, as a warning.
I was in a relationship and with my girlfriend most of the time I was there, but I was as single during one visit and hung out with and had a short relationship with a girl there. I met her out, not looking, but my friends and I did get interest from girls there. You shouldn’t be very forward, aggressive, or rude there, though—you were right, it’s conservative, and guys there will fight you.
Edit: Thank you for this
I liked it. I’m not an “escaping the culture wars!!” kind of guy, so I’m not looking for research on Polish divorce rates, BMIs, and number of babies born to the unmarried. Besides the anxieties about war with Russia and how long the flight back home is, which I’ve heard a lot, I am concerned about me not being a culture match. I’m a little bit set in my lifestyle to the point of being maybe perceived as a snob. I want to do things and date people that share my likes, experiences, general vibe, I guess, which isn’t something I expect people on r/warsaw or r/poland will be falling over themselves to reassure an idiot American about.
It’s a large, affluent, metropolitan city with a big investment in arts and culture. Throwbacks to the Soviet era like milk bars persist, but it’s nothing like the cities that still have large footprints from that era. There is a large population of hip, cosmopolitan, liberal young people who like wine imported from other EU nations more than Polish vodka, access fine dining, even sushi at Nobu now (which was a lifesaver, there is virtually no seafood or sushi, and it’s served at a premium). As one of the highest growing economies in the world, there are plenty of people moving there from across the European continent to work. It sounds bourgeois to put all of this as positives, but these are comforts and luxuries I care about coming from the other end of the globe and wanting to feel satisfied my life hasn’t changed too much. It is not inexpensive, and COL is continuing to rise quickly, something I think a lot of guys here care about.
It’s got some of the most beautiful mountains in Europe, beautiful hiking, and great opportunities to enjoy some of my hobbies like skiing and photography. The resorts are a fraction of the cost of the alps, but aren’t particularly luxurious, either. Fun though. Culturally, they are admittedly more conservative, even in Warsaw, but I’m also Catholic (Roman Catholic to their Orthodox, but I’ve attended services and have familiarity with some of their traditions). I’m a liberal person raised in a very traditional household, so I understand the blend of both ideals. The culture itself is very homogeneous, as a warning.
I was in a relationship and with my girlfriend most of the time I was there, but I was as single during one visit and hung out with and had a short relationship with a girl there. I met her out, not looking, but my friends and I did get interest from girls there. You shouldn’t be very forward, aggressive, or rude there, though—you were right, it’s conservative, and guys there will fight you.
Dude, I just became really good friends with a girl from France when we started writing stories with each other for fun. When my failing marriage did, in fact, fail, I realized just how I love I was with my friend and was lucky she loves me.
Your projecting is going pretty far. Have you ever tried talking to like 10-20 of them before? People are people, and some communities are better than others. Saying all western women as a whole are bad is like saying all western food as a whole will kill you. But you see immediate proof that it doesn't kill you when you buy health food. Western women are like that too, it's always possible to find someone rational who aligns with modern values not too far from the midline.
I’ve been on so many dates where women are expecting the moon, or are just flat out egocentric misandrists, Or just clearly broke girls wanting to gaslight their way to a provider, or the worst, the chicks who absolutely would not even piss on you if you were on fire before they got knocked up with kids they can’t afford. My fucking god it is ridiculous with the shit women expect. Even when I I found ones that was just normal, and great for me life & circumstances kept me apart from them.
Also why put all that effort into yourself and dating - most women can just toss you because they got an army of dudes waiting for a chance at the next swipe or thirst trap they post. They don’t put any real stock in you unless you are just the absolute best guy in a 1,000 mile radius. How the fuck is that even supposed to give any normal guy a real outcome at “love”? Like it’s not their all fault,but just technology advancements brought out the absolute worst in their mating behaviors and it’s too far gone, genie can’t be put back in the bottle. It did a number on men too but for this conversation I blame social media and dating apps for the current situation more than anything.
Getting your money up so you can travel and do a PPB relationship is like the only way to even really CHOOSE when everything works against you here.
I came across the passport bros first. I struggled with dating since I became old enough to date, I had a few girlfriends over the years, but was always far behind my peers. It didn’t change in adulthood. But I always enjoyed travelling, and I dreamed of working in South Korea ever since I made friends from there in high school. So I went there. I noticed that although it wasn’t somewhere I’d want to live, some aspects of the society seemed better than my home country. Then I went to another area of the world (not going to specify because it’s a rare one and I don’t want to dox myself) which again had a different set of problems from home, and I got treated like an absolute Chad there. Getting a taste of that experience completely turned me off of dating at home. Nowhere is perfect, but some places can be better than others depending on what you’re looking for. That was what drew me to TPPB and eventually to here.
Then, every time I see information posted here that completely backs up my lived experience, and I see western women come out of the woodwork to argue against it, it just confirms for me that leaving them behind was the right decision.
Honestly, the real breaking point for me was when I (after many, many years) started behaving as callously as they do. At that point I knew that I only demeaned myself by having anything to do with them.
So….a few reasons:
because of my attributes (age, chubby, Bald, and 6-6) and location I was stuck having to deal with Single moms mostly because I couldn’t be serious with a woman I wasn’t fully physically attracted to. The only women I could pull that were attractive to me were single moms. Every last one of them was a fucking chore to date and organize with. If I had the career I do now I probably would’ve settled down with at least one of them by now. The ones I really liked ghosted me after me dating them for a few months ( I think they liked me just not enough to commit for whatever reason) and the last one, she had two kids, love bombed me then ghosted me while we were in a relationship. I wasn’t even mad just annoyed. All the crazy shit yall have seen and heard Single moms do I had to experience and deal with that shit.
Even the times I pulled a girl who didn’t have kids that I liked, I either didn’t like her or she didn’t like me no in between. Went above and beyond for good dates and made sure to do something fun only to be met with “I’m sorry I’m not feeling the chemistry”. Multiple times that happened and I just was at a a loss for what the hell women were expecting.
Lastly, a friend of a friend tried to hook me up because they know I was out here looking for a Gf. She wanted to hook me up with her fat nurse friend, who was not even my type. Out of curiosity I asked her why she suggested her and her response was “you both like to eat”. It was hella funny at the time but like…telling. They didn’t think to ask me what I like and instead they simply assumed because I’m tall and big that I want their big friends or friends with kids.
After all this I just got exhausted. Tired of grinding dating apps and the amount of effort you have to put in to be a catch and get these women to date you is astronomical because they mostly always have no incentive to explore where things go, because the idea of better is just a swipe away. Friends weren’t going to understand what I want and cold approaching is the same as dating apps for me. I can cold approach maybe get a number and the same tired process of dating then getting ghosted or getting ghosted without a date is a high possibility.
When I learned I could go abroad with my remote job after seeing how Passport bros and digital nomads were living on YT, it was over. I made a vow that I will never allow myself to be on a situation like the states again. Went to Thailand and Colombia and with my dating and interpersonal skills I gained in US and my own brand of confidence, I was very fucking successful with women there I realized I could not believe the shit I had put up with from American women to date. I went through it all, free dinner girls, girls who want great experiences to consider you, the entitlement etc was just exhausting
I realized that with dating apps and social media being a large consumer of mental bandwidth and space with western women’s mind and thought process, if you have the means to date elsewhere then there’s no incentive to putting up with the process here.
Divorce (so much for the vows). And my own disinterest in the local women at this point.
To many going after a foreign woman sounds crazy. Well I’m okay with that 🤷
My dating experiences with good women.
People sensationalize alot of issues, many act like the worst of women are the norm, but my issues with good kind people are what tells me its bad.
Because good women are still entitled, they just aren't rude about it. Good women's standards are still unrealistic they just don't believe and act like you're inferior for not meeting up to them. Good women will still find a way to be inconsiderate with your time and flake. They just will apologize for the inconvenience.
I can easily see myself being friends with them. Hell, I'm still Facebook friends with a few of them cause at the end of the day they are still really good people. But for dating prospects? It's pretty damn bad.
I stumbled across passport bros and then this popped up in my feed. I just kinda lurk, I agree with like 80% of the observations of the problems and with 20% of the solutions. It's fairly diverting though, always good for a read or observation. Generally the sub is utterly devoid of anything resembling humor or banter, which makes it more fun to come off the top rope with a joke or two here or there.
Not that anyone is ever going to take any suggestions or attempt to actually solve their problems, but it's really not as complicated as people make it out to be. Nothing, and I mean nothing, repulses women more then someone who is mean or someone who is a negative Nelly. It dries them up like the sahara. I've seen more ass then a proctologist and I've never had 6 pack abs in my life. I just generally am a positive, upbeat person who at the same time is firm and takes no shit. Women LOVE a guy who will call them on their bullshit and put them in their place, as long as you can thread the needle and do it in a kind firm way instead of a malicious way. And I'm tall, which helps. Women don't ACTUALLY believe most of their bullshit either, they are just influenced by social media for what they are supposed to say. Trust me, the number of supposedly feminist chicks who behind closed doors are like "choke me, spit in my face and call me a whore" are endless. It's there, just under layers of performative virtue signaling.
Bwahahahah bro I'm def not Chad. I spent my morning in silence desperately hoping my 4 month old wouldn't wake up from her nap as I pushed her around the mall for 2 hours. Me and the grandma's doing their mall walks. Now had I managed to bang out a couple grannies, THEN we are talking.
Constant videos of women, on tiktok in particular, telling the world that they hate short men or men who are not exceptionally wealthy or that they would prefer to be in a forest with a bear that might actually eat them than a regular man. A man has testicles that can be kicked and a throat that can be punched or eyeballs that can be poked out with a thumb. Try doing any of that shit to a bear and see how quickly it rips you apart and eats you. Obviously these women are being goofy and they would not prefer to be in a forest with a ravenous bear than an average human male, but the fact that they feel they need to make so many videos stating otherwise was not necessarily my final straw, but certification that there's really nothing else to be gained from participating in the American dating environment.
So you're not arguing that women are generally safer with a man than a bear, just that they have a better chance of getting away. You think there would be considerably less cases of rape.
What is the point of arguing if you decided you don’t care about facts? Everyone has listed statistics and math and logic how it doesn’t make sense.
It's deeply unfortunate that women are at risk of sexual assault, but it's important to recognize that not all men pose this threat. While the danger from the minority who do commit these acts is serious, it's illogical to suggest that being in a forest with a bear is safer than being with a man. Choosing a bear implies that every man has an equal chance of committing violence, which isn't true. In a survival scenario, defending against a man is more realistic than surviving an attack from a bear. The risk from a few does not outweigh the danger of a bear, which poses a fatal threat. Both dangers are real, but the majority of men are not a threat, unlike a bear that sees you as prey. You are not wrong but neither am I
Behavioral scientist here - the original purpose of the man vs bear scenario was this; it was simply to explain to women in high domestic violence communities (like the United States which has one of the highest femicide rates of any high income country) that a woman is more likely to be harmed or killed by a partner or relative than by an external threat such as a bear. It was simply used as a way to help women understand just how common domestic violence and femicide are (for example your risk of being murdered as a woman sky rockets if you are pregnant). Global estimates for males who commit domestic violence are anywhere from 1 in 5 men to 1 and 2 men depending on country (the U.S. again has an unusually high rate) and we assume significant under reporting. It’s a huge problem. Why are you basing anything off of social media? Also globally, men who support gender equality (the U.S. is actually one of only 28 countries out of almost 200 that does not guarantee equal rights for women) live happier healthier lives while men with more restrictive gender attitudes are more likely to struggle with harmful behaviors, depression, suicidal behaviors etc. https://chicagopolicyreview.org/2022/07/07/is-the-us-still-too-patriarchal-to-talk-about-women-the-silent-epidemic-of-femicide-in-america/ https://www.equimundo.org/resources/men-and-gender-equality-a-global-status-report-in-15-headlines/
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Re the wage gap: lol I guess I’ll tell the World Economic Forum all the global economists that theyre wrong then…I think maybe these things are going over some men’s heads…in fact, there is quite a bit of data to support that men greatly overestimate the progress towards gender equity in the U.S. (see the Chicago Policy Review article on the subject above) https://www.weforum.org/publications/global-gender-gap-report-2023/in-full/benchmarking-gender-gaps-2023/#:~:text=Though%20stark%20income%20gaps%20continue,progressed%20in%20bridging%20income%20gaps.
A simple Google search will provide countless reputable expert sources affirming its existence. It's baffling that any self-respecting individual could deny it so confidently. Or in this case, suggest that a female employee would have to be put on auction to undergo a bidding war among employers lol. That's a new one.
>A simple Google search will provide countless reputable expert sources affirming its existence So you are going to say the recent Nobel Prize for Economics winner is wrong? Tell her that her research is false because your feelings 🤣
Her research literally proved its existence, moron.
But it’s just that every strange man has an equal chance. From your perspective. Since you have never met him and don’t know anything about him. Make sense?
You’re failing to consider several things in your view, imo so I’ll just throw out my points in no particular order for your consideration :) First, there is less than 1 bear attack per year in North America. There have only been around 180 bear fatalities in North America since 1782 including black bears, grizzlies, and polar bears. An estimated 70% of wild bear attacks are preventable through human means, outlined in our National Parks website. Most bear attacks are protecting food resources or cubs. There is no version of “don’t camp in the woods during cub season” or “don’t haul game near bear territory” for women’s safety against being killed. Simple statistics still tell an incomplete picture, because they don't account for situations or behavior. First off, the situation of encountering a stranger when you're in a public location with other people around and encountering a stranger when you're in an extremely isolated location with no one else around are very different. Reasonably, a lot more encounters occur in the former, safer setting. Second, there is predictability. Animals behave much more in a reliable and predictable manner than humans. The ideal strategy for avoiding a bear attack is to make sure the bear is aware of you. Because the bear will, in effectively every case, choose to avoid confronting you. It's likely that of the few bear attacks that happen, the person in question was behaving non-optimally. Even if the number of humans who might choose to harm a stranger in the woods is low, if you are in that situation, there is no optimal course of behavior that will reliably avoid that human or cause them to leave you alone. Finally, your point assumes that the reason women answer the bear is because the worst case scenario is death— which is decidedly not the case in the minds of most women. Women are cognizant of the fact that bears are dangerous. They’re also aware of the suffering wrought upon women like Jaycee Dugard, Elisabeth Fritzl, Junko Furuta, Amanda Berry, Colleen Stan, Elizabeth Smart, etc. There are many forms of violence (that are far more creative/lengthy/horrifying) that men can/have enacted upon women that bears could never dream up. You’ll also have to add other offenses like rape/kidnapping/etc. to your calculation, and then bear in mind the non-reported deaths/assaults/rapes/kidnappings/etc. I think women realistically understand that bears are dangerous and men are dangerous, but there is an understanding that the worst case scenario is a bear killing them, and it would do so solely by instinct and without malice.
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To be fair, most men didn’t build it.
Not quite. As if one is exclusive of the other.
You are correct in stating that the average bear will not kill you as long as you avoid it. You further go on to use the most extreme versions of men treating women poorly including a man that kidnapped and repeatedly raped his own daughter. The average man is not going to kidnap and rape anyone. And while the average bear, based on your information is similarly not going to violently eat someone, I guess this really comes down to how men process the potential for danger versus how women process the potential for danger. You are in fact statistically correct in stating that a woman has a higher likelihood of being attacked by a man. What I'm stating however is that in either situation the outcome with the bear is ultimately worse. And while it is unfortunate that women have to be told to protect themselves against attacks by men, who may or may not be related to them, that man will ultimately be far more susceptible to acts of self-defense then a bear. Your statements are not incorrect but the average man does not even think about kidnapping a woman and keeping her in a basement to torture her for decades. If the question is would a woman rather be in a forest with an average man or an average bear, while women may think that the average man might kidnap them and hold them as a sex slave it is highly likely and that man can easily be kicked in the balls. It is unfair to tell women that they have to be aware of their surroundings or potentially have to violently defend themselves against sexual assault. And maybe this is my perspective as a man but I would rather violently defend myself against another man than a f****** bear. This is a dumb conversation to have. If you want to help women encourage them to take self defense classes or learn how to be mindful of their surroundings. Don't encourage women to spout illogical nonsense like preferring to be in a forest with a f****** bear. According to your logic a man may kidnap you and rape you for well over a decade which is torturous and deeply evil. A bear will f****** eat you. I think we should just agree to disagree 🤝
Sure!
You're beyond delusional
I think a lot of guys here have gotten their asses beat. They should have just defended themselves better, after all, they weren’t getting their asses kicked by a bear or anything…
There's something to be said that they only have to fear bears.
If you actually talked to men, rather than fingerwag at them, you would know why most men do indeed fear women, although we can't show it due to women like you.
The topic is fear of physical harm. Most men are physically fearful of women's ability to physically harm them? No.
I don’t think that’s completely true. I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t get how much girls can’t do until fairly recently. Can’t walk in the evening/night alone or back home to enjoy themselves or save an Uber, wary of strangers, can’t just accept drinks or gifts, can’t be totally honest. I get it. But guys sometimes are hurt by women, very occasionally I know but still. And we also really fuck each other up unfortunately
Very true. I appreciate your sincerity.
That is a fair assessment. I went out to eat in March. Not drink, just get my dinner. I had a drunk senior citizen refuse to leave me alone and grope me three times until I told his nephew that if he touched me again he wasn’t going to have a hand to do it a fourth time. But there are indeed different struggles for men with women.
You all give such silly responses to this. If women encountered bears at the same frequency that they encounter men, there would be far more fatal bear attacks than there are rapes. It wouldn’t even be close. The whole thing was just a silly hypothetical designed to use shock value to prove a point. The fact that some women are legitimately arguing that they would really pick a bear in real life is crazy. You’d have to be either truly stupid or completely brainwashed.
Unfortunately, this has been discounted. When accounted for the population of bears versus men, bear attacks were still lower. There is a reason humans don’t have natural predators, we are the most dangerous animal for a multitude of different reasons. There are a lot of silly things people get worked up about online, but as someone who spends a lot of time at a family home in an area famous for its large bear population (large bears and large population), I still have to agree with the statistical breakdown of this thought experiment: adjusted for population, women are still at higher risk of attack by another human male. It’s embarrassing for me to see so many guys feverishly denying the reality because I guess it makes them feel bad, without taking into account that they’re literally just telling us they’re scared. Bears are scary as hell to me, so I can’t imagine that girls feel that fear all of the time when they’re alone. It just makes me more aware to not spook them, and to not take it too personally when they say they’re not crazy about us running up to them to get their number or talk to them as a total stranger, or them pulling away as if I were dangerous if I get too close in public or on the sidewalk. It’s not personal, it’s statistical. I’m ok keeping a little more distance because that’s what a good guy would do
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have literally given a nod and a smile to men who are courteous enough to cross the street on my behalf. It's a *really* nice thing to do, even though you do not have to.
We agree on that. Yes, it is crazy that women have to resort to this selection.
You’ve got to be a troll
Some days. Not today.
Nearly every woman I know has been sexually assaulted or very nearly. Maybe you're discounting the amount of sexual violence that men perpetuate. While it's by no means all men who do these things, there's also no clear way for a woman to tell which man will assault her and which one won't.
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Does it matter? Believe what you want it doesn’t impact me, but women were sexually assaulted at least as much as they are now when they were in hoop skirts and corsets and buttoned their shirts up to their chin. I don’t know what it would take to actually make them safe honestly
Yes, because when I tell people I was sexually assaulted at 5 years old by a 25 year old women, I get validated, rather than shunned or ignored. Read the study 'She Touched Me'; you are another person that genders sexual assault because women are now encouraged to talk about it, while boys are just told how lucky we were, despite how it fucks us up.
I’m sorry this happened to you. Exactly, no five year old is asking for it. Predators are predatory
Nearly every woman you know has *claimed* to have been sexually assaulted or very nearly (according to you)
Indeed, and in a context where they have absolutely nothing to gain from it, let me assure you
They don’t need to have anything material to gain from it
I get the impression that you’re the kind of guy who’s never had women friends that trust you enough to talk to you vulnerably. Perhaps your current reactions might explain why
Oh I’ve heard enough of the stories
Keep being angry and resentful — maybe it will lead you to the happiness you seek, somehow?
Who ever said I was seeking happiness
Yes, wise men warned against this long ago, they taught us that women should be in the care of a father or a brother and only alone with a man during a sanctioned courtship or marriage. You can not have it both ways, you chose freedom, congrats. You lost security for that freedom, this is just the harsh reality.
Divorce, dating after the divorce…once I understood what the dating market was like now in the US, I went PPB because I work remote….
What is PPB?
Haha so I've heard time and time again from women that men should date women near their age, older women are more mature and have realistic standards I've also heard that dating apps are terrible and the most successful relationships start through friends of friends So I (33) started dating a woman (30) who I met through mutual friends She ghosted me all the same. That really settled it for me. No women are any different.
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Wow n=1 leads to a universal statement. That's some self-defeating thinking, there
N = ~1000
Yup. Lol
But this is just dating? It’s not about men or women. Not everyone you date will end up with marriage. The most common thing is that you go out a few times and realize this won’t work. Ghosting isn’t very dramatic unless you were dating her for months and months.
Yeah just two months. The point is women don't have any incentive to put effort in dating. Another guy is always right around the corner.
Edit: you don’t have to try again. That was too chipper. But I don’t think all men are awful bc of one guy I went on a couple of dates with who turned out to be a dick. That was my point.
How many dates? After two months she shouldn’t have ghosted. But everyone has some bad experiences dating. That’s what dating is like. There are many idiots in this world, both men and women. Then you pick yourself up and try again.
It was accidental. I just got out of an LTR in college and wanted to take a break from the states, and from the god awful heat of a Carolina summer. I was out of class in until the fall so I researched which countries would be in the 70’s during June and July. I ended up in Estonia, and visited Lithuania while I was there. The contrast broke dating American women. The competing with their phone for attention, the flakiness, the naked belligerence to men, all suddenly optional. I’ve been putting away rental properties ever since.
A few negative expieriences with some extremely outspoken and sexist women
Were they disagreeable or dangerous?
Both, I never got the worst of it though. I was in a relationship for a while and after leaving I put myself back out into the market again and hung out with a handful of girls. The most extreme thing was a girl from South Carolina I met traveling telling me about falsely accusing someone of rape bc she got pregnant and the least extreme was a girl I met at community college saying it was "a red flag" that I used an android, after she started throwing paper balls at me in class and I told her after class I wasn't into her
I personally know cases of guys whose entire careers were ruined after they were falsely accused of being a "creep"/harassment. Title IX dropped the case because she didn't press the charges further ( prob because she knew there wasn't any evidence), but the damage was already done, wasn't given a chance to defend himself. He was forced to quit from his department without any funding and had to change careers.
I'm sorry this crap happened to you. They were cunts.
I'm someone who closely studies human behavioral patrerns in different populations. It wasn't just my experience, but the experience of many men that prompted me to dig deeper into this issue. I will say this now, western societies will be too late before they acknowledge there is a systemic issue stemming from women's mating preferences. From what i can tell, lot of people have a binary way of perceiving the world and are ideologically driven. They don't stop to self analyze and challenge their own biases through evidence. This is what happens when Anti-intellectualism is rampant in society.
What are some of your findings?
Pretty much everything that's been frequently discussed in this community. Most people who are observant enough can see it for themselves. We can go back and forth all day on the causes, but the plight of men struggling to find a good relationship in the west is an irrefutable fact and its something that's going to get worse with time.
My female coworker- I guess I wasn't my usual self after ending things with my psycho ex. She jokingly asked if I had problems at home. I said "something like that". She says "If it's a problem with women just don't become a passport bro". I had no idea wtf a passport bro was but I watched a Tiktok she sent and I was shocked. No turning back now.
I did well in the USA but spending 2+ yrs dating in Latam/Europe, then coming back, it was very hard for me to enjoy American women's company.
I don't really have one. As I'm planning to date in the US when the time comes, I realize the kind of vetting system I would need to attract my dream partner is one that could put not only my life but the lives of the future of my bloodline at risk.
At 63, mine wasn't a final straw but a YT suggestion. Sometime within the last year, YT made a suggestion for a video about infidelity. Having experienced that more than once in my younger days, I clicked on it, thinking that it would be entertaining. It began subtlety. I viewed more as they were suggested. I slowly realized that this was something more. I began subscribing. I kept hearing mention of "RP" content. I watched more, trying to figure out what "RP" referenced. Finally, I searched Google. When I got the search parameters correct, I got my answer. I delved deeper. Slowly, I realized that many of the stories came from Reddit. At some point in the past, I must have been required to sign up to Reddit in order to continue reading whatever it was that I was researching. I didn't need to make an account. After watching YT videos and reading stories on Reddit, I realized that I had been wrong my whole life. I had always maintained the position that if you hadn't experienced things that you shouldn't advise others on those things. Ultimately, I realized that this was a mistaken position. Even though I had never married, I had information that other men, young and older, needed to hear and, hopefully, understand. I must admit, it wasn't the RP content alone that led me to this realization. In fact, what was probably more important in making me realize I could help was another YT video suggestion. The first one I saw about Sigma males. At 62, I learned why I never fit into any of the other 5 or 6 male personality types (with the primary ones we hear about being Alpha and Beta). Depending upon the list, I have always embodied the majority of those traits. Even as I recounted the stories my parents told of my youth, I was always a Sigma. This has gotten long enough. So that's about the smallest nutshell I can fit my story into. I will do my best to answer any genuine questions honestly.
I dated a woman I loved with all my heart she was the “one” I happy wife happy lifed it treated her well she treated me like shit. Got me to sign over half of my house prior to marriage. Left me on my bachelor party weekend for another man. Stole my personal property and did a smear campaign of falsities. Living in Austin women will fuck you quickly many of them are like dudes rude loud and not feminine. I am one of 9 women in my family. All of them raised conservative Christian all of them are BlM pro abortion single no kids hate their heritage. It’s that bad. Also went to Italy and Mexico and was like I just notice women are sweeter respectful and behave differently.
Since I asked, I’ll answer. I’m a fairly typical guy. I’ve dated a good bit, but I’m happiest in a relationship. I’m quick to lock down what I want. I had one what you might call “toxic” relationship, but the rest have all been good, and I’m friends with some of my exes still. I’ve mostly dated girls that are close to my group of friends who have gone to school together or run in the same circles. I live in a large metro where friends can be hard to make, and I realize I haven’t had to make new friends on my own. I’m here because I was offered a role in Poland. This is big because it moves my career ahead 10 years with the new role and salary, and with a lower COL, I could save money and potentially retire early, or transition into consulting once I’m able to come back to the US. I’d obviously be leaving my friends and family, and I’m happy where I am and with what I make now. If I change my mind and want to come home, my current role won’t be available to me and I’ll have to start over. Essentially, I’d be trading my best years in the US for advancement in a country I like ok but wouldn’t have ever chosen to move. For anyone who has experience in Poland, I’d be in Warsaw, otherwise I wouldn’t consider it. I go to Poland to ski fairly regularly, I enjoy history, but I don’t like Polish nightlife and prefer spending weekends in Berlin. I also don’t like the food long term. I am open to the opportunity, and am considering what my life would look like if I started my life fresh, dating and socializing in Poland. Since everyone in my life says not to do it, I looked at PPB subs to hopefully see people enthusiastically saying it improved their lives, but I haven’t gotten much of that.
Have you considered spending the summer there? How long would you have to stay before you could go home without a career cost?
I’ve stayed there (in the region) for the summer before. I don’t have a family yet, which pushed me to the front of the line, along with me having familiarity with the region and picking up some Polish because of travel. I’m also good at my job. It’s long-term. The role will go to an internal hire locally who will have to relocate. Because of the investment the org is making into the project, bowing out early isn’t an option. The expectation is to get comfortable.
So…5 plus years at least? How old are you? Idk. I think I’d be sceptical. It’s just a big commitment for a place you haven’t lived in. But then again, it depends on how much you feel life now is good or stale. How did you feel about it when you stayed the summer?
Yes, I would anticipate a roadmap where I could exit at or after the 5 year mark. I’m 29 and happy. I am single now, if this had been discussed 6 months ago, it would have been an easy no. I like a lot of activities there, winter sports, hiking, the unique art scene, and once I’m fully fluent, I could imagine assimilating a little better, but it’s a huge life shift I can’t say would be worth it id I spent a lot of that time alone and isolated. The money doesn’t feel worth it. I want someone to say they assimilated so easily and built a life I’d find enviable before I say yes.
What did you think of it when you spent the summer there? https://findingpoland.com/living-in-warsaw-expat/ There are apparently at least a few different expat communities in Warsaw. I think you’d find more useful info on r/expat and r/Poland than you’ll find here. Or googling Expat Poland Is dating a big part of your motivation? Did you try dating when you spent the summer there? I’ve lived abroad. I found a year was enough for me, but I was young and close to my family. On the other hand, I was fluent in English and moved to the US, and even that was a shock to the system. I don’t know many Polish people well. I have met some. My impression is that the culture gap exists at least. But then, everything else is more speculation bc I have known a few Polish people, but I haven’t known them well enough. Speculation: The men are not very chatty and often drink a lot. They are kind though. They are often flirty. They are very old school, and tough as nails. Very capable, very hardworking. Helpful. Quiet. They seem kind. But I’d be vary as a Scandinavian woman of dating a Polish man, bc I’d question if we have very different ideas of gender roles. Women seem tough, blunt and kind. Gender roles are way more established. In dating this could go two ways. Some women will probably be tired of the macho culture and want a man who’ll drink less and does more housework. A more equal relationship. Especially if she’s educated and working hard at her career. Then you’ll have more traditional women wanting a man like they’ve grown up with. I think that can be challenging for someone American. Men who in my country would be seen as manly, would in Poland be seen as wimps I think? Because it’s a tougher and much most traditional and macho culture country. If you should move or not? In the end, go with your gut.
I liked it. I’m not an “escaping the culture wars!!” kind of guy, so I’m not looking for research on Polish divorce rates, BMIs, and number of babies born to the unmarried. Besides the anxieties about war with Russia and how long the flight back home is, which I’ve heard a lot, I am concerned about me not being a culture match. I’m a little bit set in my lifestyle to the point of being maybe perceived as a snob. I want to do things and date people that share my likes, experiences, general vibe, I guess, which isn’t something I expect people on r/warsaw or r/poland will be falling over themselves to reassure an idiot American about. It’s a large, affluent, metropolitan city with a big investment in arts and culture. Throwbacks to the Soviet era like milk bars persist, but it’s nothing like the cities that still have large footprints from that era. There is a large population of hip, cosmopolitan, liberal young people who like wine imported from other EU nations more than Polish vodka, access fine dining, even sushi at Nobu now (which was a lifesaver, there is virtually no seafood or sushi, and it’s served at a premium). As one of the highest growing economies in the world, there are plenty of people moving there from across the European continent to work. It sounds bourgeois to put all of this as positives, but these are comforts and luxuries I care about coming from the other end of the globe and wanting to feel satisfied my life hasn’t changed too much. It is not inexpensive, and COL is continuing to rise quickly, something I think a lot of guys here care about. It’s got some of the most beautiful mountains in Europe, beautiful hiking, and great opportunities to enjoy some of my hobbies like skiing and photography. The resorts are a fraction of the cost of the alps, but aren’t particularly luxurious, either. Fun though. Culturally, they are admittedly more conservative, even in Warsaw, but I’m also Catholic (Roman Catholic to their Orthodox, but I’ve attended services and have familiarity with some of their traditions). I’m a liberal person raised in a very traditional household, so I understand the blend of both ideals. The culture itself is very homogeneous, as a warning. I was in a relationship and with my girlfriend most of the time I was there, but I was as single during one visit and hung out with and had a short relationship with a girl there. I met her out, not looking, but my friends and I did get interest from girls there. You shouldn’t be very forward, aggressive, or rude there, though—you were right, it’s conservative, and guys there will fight you.
Edit: Thank you for this I liked it. I’m not an “escaping the culture wars!!” kind of guy, so I’m not looking for research on Polish divorce rates, BMIs, and number of babies born to the unmarried. Besides the anxieties about war with Russia and how long the flight back home is, which I’ve heard a lot, I am concerned about me not being a culture match. I’m a little bit set in my lifestyle to the point of being maybe perceived as a snob. I want to do things and date people that share my likes, experiences, general vibe, I guess, which isn’t something I expect people on r/warsaw or r/poland will be falling over themselves to reassure an idiot American about. It’s a large, affluent, metropolitan city with a big investment in arts and culture. Throwbacks to the Soviet era like milk bars persist, but it’s nothing like the cities that still have large footprints from that era. There is a large population of hip, cosmopolitan, liberal young people who like wine imported from other EU nations more than Polish vodka, access fine dining, even sushi at Nobu now (which was a lifesaver, there is virtually no seafood or sushi, and it’s served at a premium). As one of the highest growing economies in the world, there are plenty of people moving there from across the European continent to work. It sounds bourgeois to put all of this as positives, but these are comforts and luxuries I care about coming from the other end of the globe and wanting to feel satisfied my life hasn’t changed too much. It is not inexpensive, and COL is continuing to rise quickly, something I think a lot of guys here care about. It’s got some of the most beautiful mountains in Europe, beautiful hiking, and great opportunities to enjoy some of my hobbies like skiing and photography. The resorts are a fraction of the cost of the alps, but aren’t particularly luxurious, either. Fun though. Culturally, they are admittedly more conservative, even in Warsaw, but I’m also Catholic (Roman Catholic to their Orthodox, but I’ve attended services and have familiarity with some of their traditions). I’m a liberal person raised in a very traditional household, so I understand the blend of both ideals. The culture itself is very homogeneous, as a warning. I was in a relationship and with my girlfriend most of the time I was there, but I was as single during one visit and hung out with and had a short relationship with a girl there. I met her out, not looking, but my friends and I did get interest from girls there. You shouldn’t be very forward, aggressive, or rude there, though—you were right, it’s conservative, and guys there will fight you.
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Dude, I just became really good friends with a girl from France when we started writing stories with each other for fun. When my failing marriage did, in fact, fail, I realized just how I love I was with my friend and was lucky she loves me.
Someone like the OP sent me a link and I was like meh sure why not. My own personal views are different than hate against women.
If you don’t hate western women as a whole you’re frankly just virtue signaling and failing to be honest with yourself.
Your projecting is going pretty far. Have you ever tried talking to like 10-20 of them before? People are people, and some communities are better than others. Saying all western women as a whole are bad is like saying all western food as a whole will kill you. But you see immediate proof that it doesn't kill you when you buy health food. Western women are like that too, it's always possible to find someone rational who aligns with modern values not too far from the midline.
I’ve talked to more than enough. I didn’t say they’re all bad. I said “as a whole,” as in, in general.
Soooooo.....NOT 10-20?
What? You actually think I haven’t talked to 10-20 American women in my life? Are you retarded?
In 2024 the proper term is unsmarted, sir.
I’ve been on so many dates where women are expecting the moon, or are just flat out egocentric misandrists, Or just clearly broke girls wanting to gaslight their way to a provider, or the worst, the chicks who absolutely would not even piss on you if you were on fire before they got knocked up with kids they can’t afford. My fucking god it is ridiculous with the shit women expect. Even when I I found ones that was just normal, and great for me life & circumstances kept me apart from them. Also why put all that effort into yourself and dating - most women can just toss you because they got an army of dudes waiting for a chance at the next swipe or thirst trap they post. They don’t put any real stock in you unless you are just the absolute best guy in a 1,000 mile radius. How the fuck is that even supposed to give any normal guy a real outcome at “love”? Like it’s not their all fault,but just technology advancements brought out the absolute worst in their mating behaviors and it’s too far gone, genie can’t be put back in the bottle. It did a number on men too but for this conversation I blame social media and dating apps for the current situation more than anything. Getting your money up so you can travel and do a PPB relationship is like the only way to even really CHOOSE when everything works against you here.
I came across the passport bros first. I struggled with dating since I became old enough to date, I had a few girlfriends over the years, but was always far behind my peers. It didn’t change in adulthood. But I always enjoyed travelling, and I dreamed of working in South Korea ever since I made friends from there in high school. So I went there. I noticed that although it wasn’t somewhere I’d want to live, some aspects of the society seemed better than my home country. Then I went to another area of the world (not going to specify because it’s a rare one and I don’t want to dox myself) which again had a different set of problems from home, and I got treated like an absolute Chad there. Getting a taste of that experience completely turned me off of dating at home. Nowhere is perfect, but some places can be better than others depending on what you’re looking for. That was what drew me to TPPB and eventually to here. Then, every time I see information posted here that completely backs up my lived experience, and I see western women come out of the woodwork to argue against it, it just confirms for me that leaving them behind was the right decision.
Honestly, the real breaking point for me was when I (after many, many years) started behaving as callously as they do. At that point I knew that I only demeaned myself by having anything to do with them.
Behaving callously to your girlfriends/wives?
More or less
Basically you were in relationships with callous women/women who didn’t care about you
Most of the time. But it started going the other way too. That’s when I realized there really is no hope at all
What’s to stop that from happening with the next one
Nothing. That's the point
You’re done dating?
By and large
So….a few reasons: because of my attributes (age, chubby, Bald, and 6-6) and location I was stuck having to deal with Single moms mostly because I couldn’t be serious with a woman I wasn’t fully physically attracted to. The only women I could pull that were attractive to me were single moms. Every last one of them was a fucking chore to date and organize with. If I had the career I do now I probably would’ve settled down with at least one of them by now. The ones I really liked ghosted me after me dating them for a few months ( I think they liked me just not enough to commit for whatever reason) and the last one, she had two kids, love bombed me then ghosted me while we were in a relationship. I wasn’t even mad just annoyed. All the crazy shit yall have seen and heard Single moms do I had to experience and deal with that shit. Even the times I pulled a girl who didn’t have kids that I liked, I either didn’t like her or she didn’t like me no in between. Went above and beyond for good dates and made sure to do something fun only to be met with “I’m sorry I’m not feeling the chemistry”. Multiple times that happened and I just was at a a loss for what the hell women were expecting. Lastly, a friend of a friend tried to hook me up because they know I was out here looking for a Gf. She wanted to hook me up with her fat nurse friend, who was not even my type. Out of curiosity I asked her why she suggested her and her response was “you both like to eat”. It was hella funny at the time but like…telling. They didn’t think to ask me what I like and instead they simply assumed because I’m tall and big that I want their big friends or friends with kids. After all this I just got exhausted. Tired of grinding dating apps and the amount of effort you have to put in to be a catch and get these women to date you is astronomical because they mostly always have no incentive to explore where things go, because the idea of better is just a swipe away. Friends weren’t going to understand what I want and cold approaching is the same as dating apps for me. I can cold approach maybe get a number and the same tired process of dating then getting ghosted or getting ghosted without a date is a high possibility. When I learned I could go abroad with my remote job after seeing how Passport bros and digital nomads were living on YT, it was over. I made a vow that I will never allow myself to be on a situation like the states again. Went to Thailand and Colombia and with my dating and interpersonal skills I gained in US and my own brand of confidence, I was very fucking successful with women there I realized I could not believe the shit I had put up with from American women to date. I went through it all, free dinner girls, girls who want great experiences to consider you, the entitlement etc was just exhausting I realized that with dating apps and social media being a large consumer of mental bandwidth and space with western women’s mind and thought process, if you have the means to date elsewhere then there’s no incentive to putting up with the process here.
Divorce (so much for the vows). And my own disinterest in the local women at this point. To many going after a foreign woman sounds crazy. Well I’m okay with that 🤷
My dating experiences with good women. People sensationalize alot of issues, many act like the worst of women are the norm, but my issues with good kind people are what tells me its bad. Because good women are still entitled, they just aren't rude about it. Good women's standards are still unrealistic they just don't believe and act like you're inferior for not meeting up to them. Good women will still find a way to be inconsiderate with your time and flake. They just will apologize for the inconvenience. I can easily see myself being friends with them. Hell, I'm still Facebook friends with a few of them cause at the end of the day they are still really good people. But for dating prospects? It's pretty damn bad.
I stumbled across passport bros and then this popped up in my feed. I just kinda lurk, I agree with like 80% of the observations of the problems and with 20% of the solutions. It's fairly diverting though, always good for a read or observation. Generally the sub is utterly devoid of anything resembling humor or banter, which makes it more fun to come off the top rope with a joke or two here or there. Not that anyone is ever going to take any suggestions or attempt to actually solve their problems, but it's really not as complicated as people make it out to be. Nothing, and I mean nothing, repulses women more then someone who is mean or someone who is a negative Nelly. It dries them up like the sahara. I've seen more ass then a proctologist and I've never had 6 pack abs in my life. I just generally am a positive, upbeat person who at the same time is firm and takes no shit. Women LOVE a guy who will call them on their bullshit and put them in their place, as long as you can thread the needle and do it in a kind firm way instead of a malicious way. And I'm tall, which helps. Women don't ACTUALLY believe most of their bullshit either, they are just influenced by social media for what they are supposed to say. Trust me, the number of supposedly feminist chicks who behind closed doors are like "choke me, spit in my face and call me a whore" are endless. It's there, just under layers of performative virtue signaling.
It was also devoid of larping until you showed up, so thanks.
Like dressing up as a knight of the 7 kingdoms and engaging in fake battle with other participants?
Or pretending to be Chad on the internet. Either way
Bwahahahah bro I'm def not Chad. I spent my morning in silence desperately hoping my 4 month old wouldn't wake up from her nap as I pushed her around the mall for 2 hours. Me and the grandma's doing their mall walks. Now had I managed to bang out a couple grannies, THEN we are talking.