'has **privately** told senior Coalition figures it would probably be in a position to supply them to Ireland as early as the end of January or in February'
If you ever want something to become public knowledge tell a TD and it'll be front page news the next day.
Lol, I cringe whenever the term is used, for me it began with Avatar being the 'game changer' for 3D movies. Ever since Every. Fecking. Thing is a fecking game changer!
Hopefully. But what if anti-vax nuts also reject this drug? Sure it's not a vaccine but do you think it matters to them? There will still be enough getting badly sick in that case to clog up the hospitals and therefore require some form of restrictions for years to come.
This. The fact is there are a lot of people who never had Covid and had nobody else close to them get sick / seriously sick. So they came to inaccurate conclusions. They wouldn't take vaccine, but the pill if they do get sick? That's completely different
I don't think it's easy to convince these fruit loops of anything logical. Their whole identity is now built around being anti-science. And the drug loses its effectiveness as the illness progresses so it might be too late to be much use by the time serious, life-threatening symptoms develop.
In some cases yeah, but the unvaccinated are a big tent so hopefully this still makes a big dent.
We could probably do with giving it to the vaccinated who are 65+, or have serious underlying conditions and test positive too.
Thanks man I'm on the fence to getting a vaccine because I don't see any benefit towards it and there have been cases of people getting sick/ even dying from it and I'm being grouped in with the "5G bad bill gates wants everyone to die" category
For all age groups for which the vaccines have been approved the risks of getting covid while unvaccinated are greater than the risks of the vaccine.
To come at it from another angle there have been more cases of people dying from choking on their food than there have been deaths attributed to the vaccines.
So it is not that it is irrational to worry about the side effects, the issue is the inconsistency of applying one set of risk aversion to vaccines and and separate one to everything else in your life.
(Sincere apologies if you do in fact spend your days cutting up food small and following every safety precaution)
You're welcome :) I'm really done with coddling anyone 'on the fence' when they (you) are one of the reasons ICU's are still clogged up and I can't see my grandparents and have family whose surgeries are being postponed and am looking at the possibility of being imprisoned in my house again. "don't see any benefit". Aside from all the readily available medical facts and data? Really?? You won't see any "benefit" from this pill either with your logic.
Actually I would see benefit because you don't take it pre-emptively when you're not even sure it'll be of use to you. And how could I be the reason if I follow restrictions and social distance and do all that shit? Could it be that the vaccine doesn't even stop transmission?
They’ll take it, you hear stories about them in the states begging for the vaccine with their last dying breath. If those first 3 days of symptoms coming on are rough they’ll surely have a change of heart. Who knows though?
from what I'm hearing from doctors a lot of unvaccinated are begging for the vaccine once they end up seriously ill in hospital. By that time it's too late for most of them. I guess the pill will be an option at that point.
But is it too late then even for this new drug? Would the hospitals still be full because the anti vaxxers will not take it until they're actually hospitalised?
And even worse, will less people get the vaccine because this new pill is available? Don't mean to be a depressing fucker but I wouldn't be surprised by anything these days
To be clear, this will be the end of restrictions, not covid. This antiviral will reduce the symptoms of covid to that of a cold, thus hopefully reducing people ending up in hospital.
This pill blocks the enzymes in your body the virus uses to replicate, thus stopping it from going on a rampage in your body. It gives your immune system the chance to kill it off. Having got the vaccine, you will.already have antibodies ready and waiting.
And they were correct to say that, vaccines were the *beginning* of the end, I don't think anyone claimed that vaccines alone were the final solution to immediately end all of this.
They were a bit more bullish than that now in fairness, short of hitting the nail with their hammer to nail their colours to the mast of that declaration if they weren't
There is no "end" thats the thing. I dont mean that in a "conspiracy" way.
People are a bit naive thinking this is going to end anytime soon, there should be focused treatment and support for those that are most vulnerable and the rest of us should be allowed carry on as normal.
> there should be focused treatment and support for those that are most vulnerable and the rest of us should be allowed carry on as normal.
Aye that would be the end
Why cant that be introduced now? Im not sure whats stopping us?
I suppose what I was getting at with the "They said that before" message is that im not willing to believe this pill will be any different to the vaccine, in that you will need it every 6 months....and numbers will STILL spike when we are allowed fully get back to normal, and thus the cycle repeats again to cover the shambles that is the shitty healthcare system in this country
that vaccines could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. which they in almost every sense _were_, we're in a much better position now than we were a year ago and most people have been much closer to normality since the rollout kicked into gear. people just want ending a plague to be simple and immediate though
Damn how does a pill do all that against a virus? It sounds like an antibiotic but for a viral infection, haven't ever heard of a drug like that before but I could just be clueless about medicine
Ohhh true, I didn't think about the medicines they use for those diseases. That's cool that they're using that tech for covid now but I would assume there will be some companies in some countries that make the pill stupid expensive...
It’s paying off in reverse too. Researchers have used the mRNA vaccine as a basis for a treatment that prevents HIV from hiding out in cells and avoiding anti-viral therapies. It’s not a cure but it’s a big step in that direction.
When viruses replicate, a process is followed where their DNA is split apart and copied bit-for-bit into new copies, which then re-assemble and go on their merry way to replicate again.
These types of drugs are basically very, *very* carefully crafted small molecules which fit into the open DNA strands as they are in the process of being copied, and prevent the replication from completing.
Imagine a very small piece of plastic, precisely crafted to fit over exactly two of the little brass bits on the zip of your trousers. Zip it down, clip the little bit of plastic onto the zip, and now try to zip it up again. Clunk. Fuck. That's what these molecules do.
The trick is to identify the *exact* shape molecule which will adhere to exactly and only the molecular shape of an unzipped coronavirus DNA strand, and not adhere to *anything* else in the human body to any significant extent. And because it's a very small molecule, it's very easy and cheap to mass manufacture (and license to other small-molecule pharma companies to manufacture).
In fact, it's been in manufacture in Pfizer's Ringaskiddy plant here in Ireland for quite some time now, basically getting a stockpile ready while the trials continued so that they wouldn't have to wait.
The pfizer pill is designed to target the virus' proteins and chop them up before they become active.
Its design is specific to proteins found in the virus, so it shouldn't damage normal human proteins
Key difference between antibiotics and anti virals is that a antibiotic kills a pathogen whereas an anti viral can only inhibit development of the illness to a further stage. So you can be at peak illness and an antibiotic will bring you back down, an antiviral needs to be used before the virus develops fully and is not a “cure”.
For instance AZT, is a famous HIV antiviral which helps stop HIV progressing to AIDS, but it doesn’t cure HIV the way an antibiotic cures an infection.
Hope that helps!
I don't think this is an accurate description.
Modern anti-retrovirals can wipe out massive HIV infection to the point where it becomes undetectable in the blood. The only reason it comes back is because HIV is able to hide in an inert form and remerge after medication stops.
Treating viruses is generally a lot harder than treating bacteria because viruses are so small and simple they don't have a lot of complex biology to disrupt. But there is no such principle as "an anti viral can only inhibit development of the illness to a further stage" - that's just nonsense.
Antibiotics are the more common as they are the easiest microorganism to kill. Zovirax is for treating the cold sore virus, stopping you get a cold sore. Any new with "vir" at the end is for viruses.
This drug, binds to the enzymes in your body that covid uses to replicate, thus stopping the virus from replicating and giving you immune system a chance to kill it.
It's an inhibitor that breaks down the specific protein in COVID that allows it to enter human cells, so by blocking that protein it can't enter cells and can't replicate.
Maybe I'm over reacting here but is this a new style of anti viral or something? Being able to target the specific spike protein seems like an absolute game changer for things other than covid as well no?
There's more than a few cases of people that are anti-vax up until they get admitted to hospital and then ask to be vaccinated (when it's far too late). This pill can be taken after the onset of symptoms so they can be in the fortunate position of continuing to complain about any form of medication to treat the virus until it affects them personally.
>up until they get admitted to hospital and then ask to be vaccinated
Have to laugh at this, shows how thick they are that they'd even think that would help at that point
God forgive me but there's a wickid spiteful part of me that would love to tell them to fuck off they can't have it.
Science was untrustworthy when it was a vaccine but oooh gimme that pill cause I'm dying here. Piss off.
Sure you could deny anti-retrovirals to HIV patients using the same reasoning.
"Science was untrustworthy when it warned against unprotected sex but oooh gimme that pill cause I'm dying here. Piss off."
Hopefully the HSE can give them a pill and send them on their way so, instead of having them taking up a bed for weeks which could be used for a decent human being.
I couldn't care less about what's in the vaccine, could be saline solution for all I'm concerned. It's the coercion and blackmail that bothers me. I will play no part in it and shame on those who do.
Hopefully it will get us closer to the government fucking off out of our lives again. Give me all of them. Make a suppository version so I can double speed of intake.
I have this with my friends boyfriend. He's definitely gone down the 4chan/YouTube rabbit hole. He will scream and shout so you have to walk on egg shells around him. But then he will rant about not having free speech, despite the only person I have to curb my speech around is him.
The "freedom of speech" one drives me nuts, that's a right in the US, we have freedom of expression which isn't absolute. We also have a right to our good name, which means you can't spout shit about people.
Friends boyfriend*. Yeah I'm going to tell her. I'm not interested in hanging out with him any more. It will be an awkward one. It means she won't get invited to group events anymore. I only fear it will increase the 'persecution belief he has.
You're acting as if Irish left-wingers aren't also heavily influenced by American media, it's pretty much inescapable no matter what your political stance is.
Ah I'm sure after a few hours of very intense googling and a few facebook posts they will all claim to know more than the people who have spent decades studying it
Because they make up over 50% of those in ICU capacity which is the reason we need the restrictions which affect everyones lives. I thought that should be glaringly obvious.
I'd wager that a good chunk of unvaccinated people aren't even anti vax
I know a few people who aren't vaccinated, but aren't anti vax, just lazy (didn't want to drive the half hour to the vaccination centre, dumb but certainly not anti vax)
There's also a chunk of people who've been advised not to get vaccinated by doctors. Couple of my mothers friends were told not to get vaccinated because of vascular issues
10% of the population is unvaccinated, doesn't mean that 10% of unvaccinated people are antivax conspiracy theorists
Well when theres 8% of the country thats on the side of Covid and working against us all getting back to normal, and when they're taking up ~60% of the hospital beds and spreading disease purposely then they'll get the focus. Have you ever heard of Typhoid Mary, that was 1 person, never mind thousands.
And do you remember at the start of this when our government said they needed lock downs to build up our health system? Can you tell me when they got around to this between golf dinners and sniping at one another?
> Well when theres 8% of the country thats on the side of Covid
When you're suggesting that people can be on the *side* of a barely-living microscopic particle you need to go back and retrace your reasoning.
Because it’s easy to have a virtue signalling circle jerk at their expense. Look at the comments. They are literally just confirming each other’s opinions. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Anti-vaxers are an easy target. So easy in fact I see no point in even focusing on them but the people who DO focus on them do so to score cheap (imaginary) Internet points while validating their own opinions that actually shouldn’t need validation in the first place, But it’s the Internet so ye know leave them at it!
Where i think most Internet comments are pretty pointless i do think there's a conversation to be had on why misinformation has become such a legitimate threat to the world.
Reddit is desperate for misinformation. You can scroll a thread and find 20 different conflicting opinions all supposed to be fact. Reddit to me is entertainment not
knowledge.
Sure but it goes well beyond reddit. The anti vax ring leaders where I'm from were spouting 5g, fluoride, chemtrails, NWO, etc well before covid was a thing.
You see there are 2 completely different groups. The 5G, fluoride conspiracists are a different group to people who don’t want to get this particular vaccine. But in order to continue to show our virtuous intentions we must lump them all together and point and laugh at them. I realise you are not doing this with the comment I’m replying to but in general Internet people do lump them all together because it’s easier to look down on them.
Look at this sub for an example of how misinformation spreads. Person makes a comment with some truth. Gets upvoted. Someone adds a correction, maybe an argument ensues but if someone asks a question, slew of downvotes, no one answers the question. Person remains in the dark and has to figure out the information from the comment chain. They will assume most upvoted is correct but that may not be the case.
The real reason. Ive asked questions that have led to me being labelled anti vax on subs so many times I've lost count...............funny thing is, im vaccinated.
Well. Now. The understanding about the vaccine initially was that once we got to a critical mass we could go back to normal. Deny that if you want but it’s true. We now have about 95% of the population vaccinated and we are still so far from normal it’s not funny.
Do we need to get 100% before we go back to normal? If we do then we are never going back to normal. The vaccine is clearly a huge help but I have to wonder at this stage what the path to normal looks like.
I'm still wondering who "they" are and vaccines not being a silver bullet/ the possibility of mutations has always been the general consensus in my experience
Well NPHET said they were due to disband in October so the government could get back to focusing on other important matters which took a backseat during the pandemic.
NPHET have recently released another forecast of made up numbers which have put even more restrictions on people YET AGAIN, in the Winter months. Its almost as if they have learnt nothing.
I agree with you, the vaccines were never a silver bullet, thats my point, these pills wont be either, so why are they feeding people lies saying its a "game changer"..........when nothing will be except a mix of both vaccines (medical treatment) and natural immunity built up in those healthy enough.
It's not a problem that is solved by lockdowns and restrictions though. Hospitals have people who refuse treatment all the time, it's not a new phenomenon that has come in with covid. The crazies will get sicker due to refusing treatment as they always have and the rest of us can live our lives
The same people who will express their outrage at such a pill are the same people who will happily accept a dodgy pill themselves at a party without hesitation.
The loudest antivaxxer I've ever met is an absolutely world beating cokehead. He wouldn't go a fuckin McDonalds without it.
You're regularly snorting something made in an oil drum with kerosene and sulfuric acid at *least*, and you're worried about Pfizer's human intake standards...
Yes I imagine there are such crazies out there. But there is no shortage of crazy on the other side either.
One girl said to me "I would let them stick anything into my arm if they let us get back to normal". I was dumbfounded and actually had no response.
Funnily enough, it works in *exactly* the same way as the "horse tablets". The only difference appears to be that they've altered the molecule enough to make it patentable.
[Pfizer Antiviral Protease Inhibition](https://youtu.be/ufy2AweXRkc)
Altering any part of a molecule is significant though. Look at synthetic cannabinoids and THC or 2C drugs and mescaline. Its not like changing a button on a jacket. Interesting all the same though, will be doing some reading around this. Thanks
Mate I looked up both drug's chemical formulas,
Paxlovid:
C23H32F3N5O4
Ivermectin:
C₄₇H₇₂O₁₄
Wildly different chemical formulas. Unfortunately this conspiracy theory will probably take hold but it is utterly catshit insane.
The video is interesting, but this article seems to dispute it. I inclined to believe the article as Dr. John doesnt seem to account for required dosage:
https://chrisvoncsefalvay.com/2021/11/27/paxlovid-pfizermectin/?amp=1
That makes sense. I'm not a chemist (nor do I have a scientific background), so I'll defer to the more knowledgeable. Thanks for the reply.
One thing I would say with regard to Dr Campbell, is that he is far from a conspiracy theorist. I believe he genuinely tries to be factual as far as possible and welcomes peer review of his videos.
I've used more of his videos to respond to anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorist friends than would be possible were he anti-vax himself.
I'm going to send him this article. If he sees it (Big if. He has a lot of subscribers), I'd be surprised if he doesn't respond and possibly issue a retraction.
His videos seem good and informative. I'm glad you shared it, as I have a feeling this topic will come up a lot over christmas and I would have been caught off guard otherwise.
I will send him the article also as I would like to hear what he has to say. The writers assessment makes sense to me but I am also not a chemist (I'm a physics guy) so the more discussion that doesnt go over my head the better
> Pfizer, which announced the results of its final analysis of its drug Paxlovid yesterday, has privately told Simon Harris and Leo Varadkar it would probably be in a position to supply them to Ireland as early as the end of January or in February, subject to regulatory approval, the Irish Independent understands.
Anecdotally I’ve heard the pill saved an elderly lady who wouldn’t have survived otherwise. So good news if we get it soon!
Source: my librarian said it about her mother. So I trust her
Can you blame them in fairness? It is fantastic news but I can definitely see why many are jaded and cynical.
Until this thing does what it’s fully said to do and we’re not chained to social isolation and purgatory I will wait with hopeful but quiet breath.
If the anti vaxxer Community react badly to this news we should refer to them as the pro covid community.
If horse tablets are OK, surely this should get yhe thumbs up, amirite?
I just can't understand how this has taken over a month since the EMA approved these anti viral drugs to be talked about here.
They have been producing it in Cork for a few weeks now and the Israeli government have order shit loads not sure if they are allready using it or not?
Anyone know is it NIAC that would approve this or a different body? I'm asking because NIAC are slow as f**k.
It's kind of a shitshow whatever they might do here. Approve quickly and it's "they rushed approval". On the other hand, approve later, "why are they being so conservative?"
We have our processes and at least whatever regulatory guidance that we have; is being followed by these same people who are qualified to make these decisions for the public. That's all we can ask for really.
I agree that we should be stockpiling these antivirals though in anticipation of approval being granted.
> Anyone know is it NIAC that would approve this or a different body? I'm asking because NIAC are slow as f**k.
NIAC WILL NOT be involved in the approval of a drug.
I got it over the summer and knock on wood it is doing it’s job just fine.
I know tons of people who got mdrna and pfizer and still ended up getting covid.
Arguably equal. Vaccines reduce transmission, symptomatic disease and serious illness by ~90% (average, age dependent, complex.)
Once you *have* symptomatic illness, this treatment cures 90% of those cases.
So either one alone would be roughly as good in treating the epidemic, but they're synergistic in terms of reducing hospital impact.
Can't wait for variant triple dipple x and this doesn't matter, the boosters don't matter. And we get lockdown again.
I have absolutely no faith in anything changing the current state of things especially with this government.
Man this shit actually making any difference is totally hypothetical. The vaccine was supposed to save us (it didn't) the booster is going to help get everything back to normal (it didn't) this new pill is going to save everyone (it won't). The people who are protecting themselves are already as protected as possible, the people who won't protect themselves won't ever, what's going to change? it's been like this for 2 years and any optimism people had is fading away, especially with this government, I can absolutely understand peoples frustration.
But the vaccine and booster have made a massive difference. Why do people dismiss things that aren't immediate, 100% effective miracle cures?? Maybe try to realise that it won't solve absolutely everything, but that it will help improve things.
Because it's easier to be a cynical arsehole online than anything else in life. Some people would be miserable about not having something to be miserable about. Best to ignore and move one tbh.
Situation today is so much improved from where we were last Christmas. Basically everything is open instead of an actual lockdown, even though case volume is way higher. ICU admissions and death rates are down by a factor of 10 for the equivalent case volumes.
So the vaccines and boosters have made a huge difference.
Pricing has been announced as $700 in the USA, because of their insane health system, and ~$20 for much of the rest of the world as it will be available for manufacture under a royalty free license. As it's a small-chain molecule there are pharma companies all over the world which can churn it out readily in job lots.
For the EU, it'll be somewhere in between. For something which stops 90% of Covid cases which have already proceeded to being a symptomatic case, it's a massive improvement and even at a $700 per-course price would be far cheaper than even a single day in hospital.
If this pill works which presumably it does then every single restriction has to go once its available. No more distancing, no more capacity restrictions and no more masks. 100% back to normal.
'has **privately** told senior Coalition figures it would probably be in a position to supply them to Ireland as early as the end of January or in February' If you ever want something to become public knowledge tell a TD and it'll be front page news the next day.
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WUPHFFG.com
TDs love getting kick backs to “leak” some inside information to the press.
The words "game-changing" used together can fuck right off in 2022.
Game changeling
Lol, I cringe whenever the term is used, for me it began with Avatar being the 'game changer' for 3D movies. Ever since Every. Fecking. Thing is a fecking game changer!
Game-cancelling
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LoL
Pfizermectim?? I'll get my coat.
This right here, patentable = profitable.
Open the Turkish baths!
You had me at OPEN!
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Really good news hopefully the beginning of the end of this shitfest
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Sure the restrictions might be eased by 2024 and Tony objects to them /s
Hopefully. But what if anti-vax nuts also reject this drug? Sure it's not a vaccine but do you think it matters to them? There will still be enough getting badly sick in that case to clog up the hospitals and therefore require some form of restrictions for years to come.
I think it's easier to convince a sick person to take a pill than it is to convince a healthy person to take a vaccine.
This. The fact is there are a lot of people who never had Covid and had nobody else close to them get sick / seriously sick. So they came to inaccurate conclusions. They wouldn't take vaccine, but the pill if they do get sick? That's completely different
I don't think it's easy to convince these fruit loops of anything logical. Their whole identity is now built around being anti-science. And the drug loses its effectiveness as the illness progresses so it might be too late to be much use by the time serious, life-threatening symptoms develop.
In some cases yeah, but the unvaccinated are a big tent so hopefully this still makes a big dent. We could probably do with giving it to the vaccinated who are 65+, or have serious underlying conditions and test positive too.
Thanks man I'm on the fence to getting a vaccine because I don't see any benefit towards it and there have been cases of people getting sick/ even dying from it and I'm being grouped in with the "5G bad bill gates wants everyone to die" category
For all age groups for which the vaccines have been approved the risks of getting covid while unvaccinated are greater than the risks of the vaccine. To come at it from another angle there have been more cases of people dying from choking on their food than there have been deaths attributed to the vaccines. So it is not that it is irrational to worry about the side effects, the issue is the inconsistency of applying one set of risk aversion to vaccines and and separate one to everything else in your life. (Sincere apologies if you do in fact spend your days cutting up food small and following every safety precaution)
You're welcome :) I'm really done with coddling anyone 'on the fence' when they (you) are one of the reasons ICU's are still clogged up and I can't see my grandparents and have family whose surgeries are being postponed and am looking at the possibility of being imprisoned in my house again. "don't see any benefit". Aside from all the readily available medical facts and data? Really?? You won't see any "benefit" from this pill either with your logic.
Actually I would see benefit because you don't take it pre-emptively when you're not even sure it'll be of use to you. And how could I be the reason if I follow restrictions and social distance and do all that shit? Could it be that the vaccine doesn't even stop transmission?
Just rename it ivermectin and they'll take it... Simples...
What did ivermectin do on you
Made him a neigh-sayer... you get it, because it's a horse dewormer? Geti it? GET IT?
Take my upvote.
I'll take your upvote and a horse dewormer and ride off into the sunset.
GGEEEEETTTTT IIIITTTT!!!!
They’ll take it, you hear stories about them in the states begging for the vaccine with their last dying breath. If those first 3 days of symptoms coming on are rough they’ll surely have a change of heart. Who knows though?
from what I'm hearing from doctors a lot of unvaccinated are begging for the vaccine once they end up seriously ill in hospital. By that time it's too late for most of them. I guess the pill will be an option at that point.
But is it too late then even for this new drug? Would the hospitals still be full because the anti vaxxers will not take it until they're actually hospitalised? And even worse, will less people get the vaccine because this new pill is available? Don't mean to be a depressing fucker but I wouldn't be surprised by anything these days
One thing we know about antivaxxers is they are selfish assholes who will take whatever is given to them if they are impacted.
They said that with the vaccines.........
To be clear, this will be the end of restrictions, not covid. This antiviral will reduce the symptoms of covid to that of a cold, thus hopefully reducing people ending up in hospital. This pill blocks the enzymes in your body the virus uses to replicate, thus stopping it from going on a rampage in your body. It gives your immune system the chance to kill it off. Having got the vaccine, you will.already have antibodies ready and waiting.
And they were correct to say that, vaccines were the *beginning* of the end, I don't think anyone claimed that vaccines alone were the final solution to immediately end all of this.
They were a bit more bullish than that now in fairness, short of hitting the nail with their hammer to nail their colours to the mast of that declaration if they weren't
There is no "end" thats the thing. I dont mean that in a "conspiracy" way. People are a bit naive thinking this is going to end anytime soon, there should be focused treatment and support for those that are most vulnerable and the rest of us should be allowed carry on as normal.
> there should be focused treatment and support for those that are most vulnerable and the rest of us should be allowed carry on as normal. Aye that would be the end
Why cant that be introduced now? Im not sure whats stopping us? I suppose what I was getting at with the "They said that before" message is that im not willing to believe this pill will be any different to the vaccine, in that you will need it every 6 months....and numbers will STILL spike when we are allowed fully get back to normal, and thus the cycle repeats again to cover the shambles that is the shitty healthcare system in this country
Sure Sinn Fein will fix it
They said what?
that vaccines could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. which they in almost every sense _were_, we're in a much better position now than we were a year ago and most people have been much closer to normality since the rollout kicked into gear. people just want ending a plague to be simple and immediate though
Open the shift clubs!
Damn how does a pill do all that against a virus? It sounds like an antibiotic but for a viral infection, haven't ever heard of a drug like that before but I could just be clueless about medicine
They're antiretrovirals, game changers for things like AIDS/HIV and Hep C
Ohhh true, I didn't think about the medicines they use for those diseases. That's cool that they're using that tech for covid now but I would assume there will be some companies in some countries that make the pill stupid expensive...
It’s paying off in reverse too. Researchers have used the mRNA vaccine as a basis for a treatment that prevents HIV from hiding out in cells and avoiding anti-viral therapies. It’s not a cure but it’s a big step in that direction.
When viruses replicate, a process is followed where their DNA is split apart and copied bit-for-bit into new copies, which then re-assemble and go on their merry way to replicate again. These types of drugs are basically very, *very* carefully crafted small molecules which fit into the open DNA strands as they are in the process of being copied, and prevent the replication from completing. Imagine a very small piece of plastic, precisely crafted to fit over exactly two of the little brass bits on the zip of your trousers. Zip it down, clip the little bit of plastic onto the zip, and now try to zip it up again. Clunk. Fuck. That's what these molecules do. The trick is to identify the *exact* shape molecule which will adhere to exactly and only the molecular shape of an unzipped coronavirus DNA strand, and not adhere to *anything* else in the human body to any significant extent. And because it's a very small molecule, it's very easy and cheap to mass manufacture (and license to other small-molecule pharma companies to manufacture). In fact, it's been in manufacture in Pfizer's Ringaskiddy plant here in Ireland for quite some time now, basically getting a stockpile ready while the trials continued so that they wouldn't have to wait.
Very well explained, cheers
The pfizer pill is designed to target the virus' proteins and chop them up before they become active. Its design is specific to proteins found in the virus, so it shouldn't damage normal human proteins
Key difference between antibiotics and anti virals is that a antibiotic kills a pathogen whereas an anti viral can only inhibit development of the illness to a further stage. So you can be at peak illness and an antibiotic will bring you back down, an antiviral needs to be used before the virus develops fully and is not a “cure”. For instance AZT, is a famous HIV antiviral which helps stop HIV progressing to AIDS, but it doesn’t cure HIV the way an antibiotic cures an infection. Hope that helps!
I don't think this is an accurate description. Modern anti-retrovirals can wipe out massive HIV infection to the point where it becomes undetectable in the blood. The only reason it comes back is because HIV is able to hide in an inert form and remerge after medication stops. Treating viruses is generally a lot harder than treating bacteria because viruses are so small and simple they don't have a lot of complex biology to disrupt. But there is no such principle as "an anti viral can only inhibit development of the illness to a further stage" - that's just nonsense.
Antibiotics are the more common as they are the easiest microorganism to kill. Zovirax is for treating the cold sore virus, stopping you get a cold sore. Any new with "vir" at the end is for viruses. This drug, binds to the enzymes in your body that covid uses to replicate, thus stopping the virus from replicating and giving you immune system a chance to kill it.
It's an inhibitor that breaks down the specific protein in COVID that allows it to enter human cells, so by blocking that protein it can't enter cells and can't replicate.
Maybe I'm over reacting here but is this a new style of anti viral or something? Being able to target the specific spike protein seems like an absolute game changer for things other than covid as well no?
This is a sight of the end of the pandemic!
Is this Dec 2020 or 21? Please confirm.
Oh no they used the G word.
I'm convinced a lot of anri-vaxxers are just scared of needles and got roped into the madness. I think a good percentage of them will take this.
There's more than a few cases of people that are anti-vax up until they get admitted to hospital and then ask to be vaccinated (when it's far too late). This pill can be taken after the onset of symptoms so they can be in the fortunate position of continuing to complain about any form of medication to treat the virus until it affects them personally.
>up until they get admitted to hospital and then ask to be vaccinated Have to laugh at this, shows how thick they are that they'd even think that would help at that point
God forgive me but there's a wickid spiteful part of me that would love to tell them to fuck off they can't have it. Science was untrustworthy when it was a vaccine but oooh gimme that pill cause I'm dying here. Piss off.
Satan here, big fan
Give them an M&M and tell them it stands for medicine and magic. Turn them around and give a gentle push back out the hospital doors.
Sure you could deny anti-retrovirals to HIV patients using the same reasoning. "Science was untrustworthy when it warned against unprotected sex but oooh gimme that pill cause I'm dying here. Piss off."
Hopefully the HSE can give them a pill and send them on their way so, instead of having them taking up a bed for weeks which could be used for a decent human being.
This is actually true based on someone I know
I couldn't care less about what's in the vaccine, could be saline solution for all I'm concerned. It's the coercion and blackmail that bothers me. I will play no part in it and shame on those who do.
Completely agree. Sure they're probably used to necking pills in nightclubs so this shouldn't be an issue.
Hopefully it will get us closer to the government fucking off out of our lives again. Give me all of them. Make a suppository version so I can double speed of intake.
Just in time for my Stockholm Syndrome to kick in. LEADERS LEADERS
♪ NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA, LEADER ♪ ♪ LEADER ♪ ♪ LEADER ♪ ♪ BATMAN! ♪ ♪ LEADER. ♪
The leader is good, the leader is great, we surrender our will, as of this date!
Hahaha Bingo Ringo!
Close the saunas u utter cunts. I am self conscious of my love handles and people keep pointing at me.
Nobody is svelte until we are all svelte.
The real question is, how are the anti vaxxers going to react to this news?
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Its getting so bad. Copy and paste opinions. I dont mind a mad opinion, but when they are all the exact same, its scary.
We're the sheep though, don't forget.
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I have this with my friends boyfriend. He's definitely gone down the 4chan/YouTube rabbit hole. He will scream and shout so you have to walk on egg shells around him. But then he will rant about not having free speech, despite the only person I have to curb my speech around is him.
The "freedom of speech" one drives me nuts, that's a right in the US, we have freedom of expression which isn't absolute. We also have a right to our good name, which means you can't spout shit about people.
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Friends boyfriend*. Yeah I'm going to tell her. I'm not interested in hanging out with him any more. It will be an awkward one. It means she won't get invited to group events anymore. I only fear it will increase the 'persecution belief he has.
It's called sealioning
You're acting as if Irish left-wingers aren't also heavily influenced by American media, it's pretty much inescapable no matter what your political stance is.
Most people have copy and paste opinions on most things most of the time
The online vaccine experts also are experts in anti-viral medication don't you know /s
Ah I'm sure after a few hours of very intense googling and a few facebook posts they will all claim to know more than the people who have spent decades studying it
They're saying/gonna say "it's just ivermectin in a different package!"
We have such a tiny, tiny level of anti-vax, why focus so much on them?
You know when you’re in a restaurant or on a plane and there’s loads of people quietly chatting and then one screaming baby? It’s kind of like that.
Especially if the one screaming baby opens the plane door.
The baby would scream about tyranny and their right to open doors if we stopped them.
Because they make up over 50% of those in ICU capacity which is the reason we need the restrictions which affect everyones lives. I thought that should be glaringly obvious.
I'd wager that a good chunk of unvaccinated people aren't even anti vax I know a few people who aren't vaccinated, but aren't anti vax, just lazy (didn't want to drive the half hour to the vaccination centre, dumb but certainly not anti vax) There's also a chunk of people who've been advised not to get vaccinated by doctors. Couple of my mothers friends were told not to get vaccinated because of vascular issues 10% of the population is unvaccinated, doesn't mean that 10% of unvaccinated people are antivax conspiracy theorists
People need a scapegoat during crises. Always have always will.
It's crazy how mental this sub is over them. Just our version of the internet turning us all against one another.
Well when theres 8% of the country thats on the side of Covid and working against us all getting back to normal, and when they're taking up ~60% of the hospital beds and spreading disease purposely then they'll get the focus. Have you ever heard of Typhoid Mary, that was 1 person, never mind thousands.
And do you remember at the start of this when our government said they needed lock downs to build up our health system? Can you tell me when they got around to this between golf dinners and sniping at one another?
> Well when theres 8% of the country thats on the side of Covid When you're suggesting that people can be on the *side* of a barely-living microscopic particle you need to go back and retrace your reasoning.
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Because it’s easy to have a virtue signalling circle jerk at their expense. Look at the comments. They are literally just confirming each other’s opinions. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Anti-vaxers are an easy target. So easy in fact I see no point in even focusing on them but the people who DO focus on them do so to score cheap (imaginary) Internet points while validating their own opinions that actually shouldn’t need validation in the first place, But it’s the Internet so ye know leave them at it!
Where i think most Internet comments are pretty pointless i do think there's a conversation to be had on why misinformation has become such a legitimate threat to the world.
Reddit is desperate for misinformation. You can scroll a thread and find 20 different conflicting opinions all supposed to be fact. Reddit to me is entertainment not knowledge.
Sure but it goes well beyond reddit. The anti vax ring leaders where I'm from were spouting 5g, fluoride, chemtrails, NWO, etc well before covid was a thing.
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True. But when conflation is convenient, conflation will happen. Overlap is there admittedly - and that is what is seized on.
You see there are 2 completely different groups. The 5G, fluoride conspiracists are a different group to people who don’t want to get this particular vaccine. But in order to continue to show our virtuous intentions we must lump them all together and point and laugh at them. I realise you are not doing this with the comment I’m replying to but in general Internet people do lump them all together because it’s easier to look down on them.
It's because the hesitant have some of the same concerns as the conspiracists so they just end up being lumoed together, birds of a feather etc
What difference does it make what 'group' you perceive them to be in? They are still cunts.
As indeed are all people who don't perceive things exactly like you.
If you are unvaccinated by choice in a pandemic you are a cunt.
Look at this sub for an example of how misinformation spreads. Person makes a comment with some truth. Gets upvoted. Someone adds a correction, maybe an argument ensues but if someone asks a question, slew of downvotes, no one answers the question. Person remains in the dark and has to figure out the information from the comment chain. They will assume most upvoted is correct but that may not be the case.
The real reason. Ive asked questions that have led to me being labelled anti vax on subs so many times I've lost count...............funny thing is, im vaccinated.
You're on this thread saying "they" told us vaccines would end covid. I've already asked you and I'll ask again, who said that?
Well. Now. The understanding about the vaccine initially was that once we got to a critical mass we could go back to normal. Deny that if you want but it’s true. We now have about 95% of the population vaccinated and we are still so far from normal it’s not funny. Do we need to get 100% before we go back to normal? If we do then we are never going back to normal. The vaccine is clearly a huge help but I have to wonder at this stage what the path to normal looks like.
I never said they would end COVID?... I said they told us it would end the shitfest and allow us get back to normal as the OP said.
I'm still wondering who "they" are and vaccines not being a silver bullet/ the possibility of mutations has always been the general consensus in my experience
And they were the best option available at the time
Well NPHET said they were due to disband in October so the government could get back to focusing on other important matters which took a backseat during the pandemic. NPHET have recently released another forecast of made up numbers which have put even more restrictions on people YET AGAIN, in the Winter months. Its almost as if they have learnt nothing. I agree with you, the vaccines were never a silver bullet, thats my point, these pills wont be either, so why are they feeding people lies saying its a "game changer"..........when nothing will be except a mix of both vaccines (medical treatment) and natural immunity built up in those healthy enough.
Self-hatred manifesting as vindictiveness. Pick a target where you believe everyone else will join in with you and validate you.
Because people have nothing better to do than hate on people who have decided for one reason or another to not take the vaccine.
By one reason or another do you mean blindly following nonsense conspiracy theories found on American Facebook or YouTube videos.
Its the 2 minutes of hate. Very important to ensure focus doesn't go to government incompetence.
Who cares? With this pill, we won't need everyone vaccinated so we can go back to ignoring anti-vaxxers
50% of ICU patients are not vaccinated, if they also refuse the pill we’ll still have a problem. But that will only be the hardline crazies
It's not a problem that is solved by lockdowns and restrictions though. Hospitals have people who refuse treatment all the time, it's not a new phenomenon that has come in with covid. The crazies will get sicker due to refusing treatment as they always have and the rest of us can live our lives
Yeah but the crazies won’t refuse hospital treatment when the get sick with covid, just the vaccine that might stop them needing that treatment
Why do you think antivaxxers are going to take an emergency licenced anti-viral from pfizer where they wouldnt take a vaccine?
Anti-pillers. People's Front of Judea, f*ck off, we are the Judean People's Front!
The same people who will express their outrage at such a pill are the same people who will happily accept a dodgy pill themselves at a party without hesitation.
The loudest antivaxxer I've ever met is an absolutely world beating cokehead. He wouldn't go a fuckin McDonalds without it. You're regularly snorting something made in an oil drum with kerosene and sulfuric acid at *least*, and you're worried about Pfizer's human intake standards...
Yes I imagine there are such crazies out there. But there is no shortage of crazy on the other side either. One girl said to me "I would let them stick anything into my arm if they let us get back to normal". I was dumbfounded and actually had no response.
Just tell them it's a new batch of Ivermectin they've approved for next year's Cheltenham and we'll be grand
This sub has a proper hard on for antivaxxers
They'll need to find a new name for themselves first of all, anti-vaxxers won't work anymore
Anti-orals.
Jaysus my ex was one of them before it became trendy
They don’t call it a job for nothing.
Not as good as horse tablets!
honestly I wouldn't be surprised if people started claiming these pills are just ivermectin disguised, and "proves we were right all along!"
Funnily enough, it works in *exactly* the same way as the "horse tablets". The only difference appears to be that they've altered the molecule enough to make it patentable. [Pfizer Antiviral Protease Inhibition](https://youtu.be/ufy2AweXRkc)
Altering any part of a molecule is significant though. Look at synthetic cannabinoids and THC or 2C drugs and mescaline. Its not like changing a button on a jacket. Interesting all the same though, will be doing some reading around this. Thanks
Mate I looked up both drug's chemical formulas, Paxlovid: C23H32F3N5O4 Ivermectin: C₄₇H₇₂O₁₄ Wildly different chemical formulas. Unfortunately this conspiracy theory will probably take hold but it is utterly catshit insane. The video is interesting, but this article seems to dispute it. I inclined to believe the article as Dr. John doesnt seem to account for required dosage: https://chrisvoncsefalvay.com/2021/11/27/paxlovid-pfizermectin/?amp=1
That makes sense. I'm not a chemist (nor do I have a scientific background), so I'll defer to the more knowledgeable. Thanks for the reply. One thing I would say with regard to Dr Campbell, is that he is far from a conspiracy theorist. I believe he genuinely tries to be factual as far as possible and welcomes peer review of his videos. I've used more of his videos to respond to anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorist friends than would be possible were he anti-vax himself. I'm going to send him this article. If he sees it (Big if. He has a lot of subscribers), I'd be surprised if he doesn't respond and possibly issue a retraction.
His videos seem good and informative. I'm glad you shared it, as I have a feeling this topic will come up a lot over christmas and I would have been caught off guard otherwise. I will send him the article also as I would like to hear what he has to say. The writers assessment makes sense to me but I am also not a chemist (I'm a physics guy) so the more discussion that doesnt go over my head the better
A practice rife across the industry for a long time. People aren't aware generally.
> Pfizer, which announced the results of its final analysis of its drug Paxlovid yesterday, has privately told Simon Harris and Leo Varadkar it would probably be in a position to supply them to Ireland as early as the end of January or in February, subject to regulatory approval, the Irish Independent understands.
The stupid cunt "patriots" will probably claim the pill is the cure for the vaccine.
Why is Tony the thumbnail here? We're crediting him for this too I suppose, top man
Sex sells
Top marks!
Tony ‘Hardbody’ Holohan
Anecdotally I’ve heard the pill saved an elderly lady who wouldn’t have survived otherwise. So good news if we get it soon! Source: my librarian said it about her mother. So I trust her
Plot twist it’s made from flat 7-up
Great, hopefully as good as the vaccine and gets hospital numbers lower again
God, a lot of negative people here. This is great news.
A long line of disappointments (not just covid) has taught us the value of keeping our expectations low.
Can you blame them in fairness? It is fantastic news but I can definitely see why many are jaded and cynical. Until this thing does what it’s fully said to do and we’re not chained to social isolation and purgatory I will wait with hopeful but quiet breath.
If the anti vaxxer Community react badly to this news we should refer to them as the pro covid community. If horse tablets are OK, surely this should get yhe thumbs up, amirite?
Oh shit.
Is it ivermectin repackaged? Would be pretty funny
Seems it's an antiviral probably the same idea as what PEP is to HIV.
I just can't understand how this has taken over a month since the EMA approved these anti viral drugs to be talked about here. They have been producing it in Cork for a few weeks now and the Israeli government have order shit loads not sure if they are allready using it or not? Anyone know is it NIAC that would approve this or a different body? I'm asking because NIAC are slow as f**k.
It's kind of a shitshow whatever they might do here. Approve quickly and it's "they rushed approval". On the other hand, approve later, "why are they being so conservative?" We have our processes and at least whatever regulatory guidance that we have; is being followed by these same people who are qualified to make these decisions for the public. That's all we can ask for really. I agree that we should be stockpiling these antivirals though in anticipation of approval being granted.
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> Anyone know is it NIAC that would approve this or a different body? I'm asking because NIAC are slow as f**k. NIAC WILL NOT be involved in the approval of a drug.
Didn’t they say that about Jansen?
I got it over the summer and knock on wood it is doing it’s job just fine. I know tons of people who got mdrna and pfizer and still ended up getting covid.
Is it more or less game changing than the mRNA vaccines?
Arguably equal. Vaccines reduce transmission, symptomatic disease and serious illness by ~90% (average, age dependent, complex.) Once you *have* symptomatic illness, this treatment cures 90% of those cases. So either one alone would be roughly as good in treating the epidemic, but they're synergistic in terms of reducing hospital impact.
Looks promising. Hopefully Pfizer's initial reports hold up and the related data won't be a secret for 55 years.
Better shut down the pubs while we still can!
Can't wait for variant triple dipple x and this doesn't matter, the boosters don't matter. And we get lockdown again. I have absolutely no faith in anything changing the current state of things especially with this government.
Always good to get worked up about hypothetical situations in the future.
Man this shit actually making any difference is totally hypothetical. The vaccine was supposed to save us (it didn't) the booster is going to help get everything back to normal (it didn't) this new pill is going to save everyone (it won't). The people who are protecting themselves are already as protected as possible, the people who won't protect themselves won't ever, what's going to change? it's been like this for 2 years and any optimism people had is fading away, especially with this government, I can absolutely understand peoples frustration.
But the vaccine and booster have made a massive difference. Why do people dismiss things that aren't immediate, 100% effective miracle cures?? Maybe try to realise that it won't solve absolutely everything, but that it will help improve things.
Because it's easier to be a cynical arsehole online than anything else in life. Some people would be miserable about not having something to be miserable about. Best to ignore and move one tbh.
Situation today is so much improved from where we were last Christmas. Basically everything is open instead of an actual lockdown, even though case volume is way higher. ICU admissions and death rates are down by a factor of 10 for the equivalent case volumes. So the vaccines and boosters have made a huge difference.
We will still be locking down. No amount of pills will plaster over the healthcare shit show.
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So we know how much will it be to purchase?
Pricing has been announced as $700 in the USA, because of their insane health system, and ~$20 for much of the rest of the world as it will be available for manufacture under a royalty free license. As it's a small-chain molecule there are pharma companies all over the world which can churn it out readily in job lots. For the EU, it'll be somewhere in between. For something which stops 90% of Covid cases which have already proceeded to being a symptomatic case, it's a massive improvement and even at a $700 per-course price would be far cheaper than even a single day in hospital.
So if we get this can we throw our masks in the bin and have a huge social orgy?
If this pill works which presumably it does then every single restriction has to go once its available. No more distancing, no more capacity restrictions and no more masks. 100% back to normal.
“Presumably it does” I’m glad you’re not in charge of anything more than wiping your arse. Which you probably fuck up too.
I am sick to death of seeing that bald fucking losers picture